Friday: Drive my 6 week old '04 GT for its first road trip 700 miles to Georgia. ~3500 miles on the odometer. No problems, start of a beautiful Memorial Day weekend.

Monday, 10:00 AM: Return trip from GA. 50 miles into the drive, engine loses power briefly but repeatedly. I drive slowly for a bit, problem seems to correct itself.

Monday, 3:00 PM: 350 miles into the trip, in Kentucky, engine starts losing power again. This time it doesn't recover and I pull off to the side of the interstate and call roadside assistance. No warning lights, plenty of gas, plenty of oil, no idea what the problem is.

Monday, 4:00 PM: Tow truck shows up. Guy almost rips off my front spoiler pulling the car onto the flatbed. Drives me 30 miles to dealership in Louisville, where the service department is closed for the weekend. I'll be staying overnight in a hotel and missing a day of work.

Tuesday, 11 AM: Dealer calls and says the car is fixed. They've reflashed the computer. I can pick up the car and be on my way.

Tuesday, 12PM: Half an hour after leaving the dealership, problem starts happening again. I pull off and into a gas station. Call the Louisville dealership, who steer me to a dealer in Indianna close by. I manage to limp to the next dealership.

Tuesday, 4PM: Indianna dealer tells me they've spoken to Mazda technical assistance, who have indicated that a new engine is probably necessary. There seems to be a problem with oil delivery to the engine, which is causing heat issues, which is causing the engine to cut power. Seems strange since the temperature gauge is reading right where it always does and no codes have been thrown. Mazda advises that the problem will probably only happen at high speeds, so I should be able to get home if I take it slow.

Tuesday, 9 PM: 10 miles from my house, driving 55 mph, problem happens again. Pull over, engine dies, won't restart. Call roadside assistance for another tow.

Tuesday, 10:30 PM: Towtruck shows up, drives me to nearest Mazda dealer, but we find the entire lot locked up, so there's no way to drop the car off. The driver drops the car in front of my house.

Wednesday, 5:30 PM: Call for another tow. While waiting, realize that the driver of the last towtruck winched the car down so hard with the tiedown hooks that he actually bent the threaded hole for the tiedown hook in the rear bumper. I can't get the rear tiedown hook in place.

Wednesday, 7:00 PM: Towtruck shows up. Driver immediately says "That car won't fit on this truck. I knew that when they dispatched me." Tells me it will take another hour to dispatch another truck that won't rip off my front spoiler when the car is loaded. I cancel the tow as the dealership will be closed when I get there and I won't be able to get a rental.

Thursday, 10 AM: Take half a day off work to get the car to the dealer where I bought it, 25 miles away. Car starts fine, so I decide to drive it to the dealership (slowly) avoiding highways. Drop the car off at the dealer and get a rental.

Thursday, 2:30 PM: Service guy at the dealer calls to ask if his tech can take my car home with him overnight. Why? They haven't been able to reproduce the issue and taking the car home will give him more time to drive it. I refuse, as I'm worried about where this guy plans to leave my car overnight and how he plans to drive it while it's in his possession. Dealer doesn't like the idea of driving the car around trying to reproduce the problem, but won't do anything with the car until they see it happen.

I'm very concerned at this point. I've lost a day and a half of work, had an unexpected out-of-pocket hotel expense, and spent 4 hours of my life waiting for tow-trucks, most of that on the edge of a busy interstate highway sitting in a broken down car. Mazda has not done much to make me feel better, I hope this thing is resolved soon. I'll update with news...

Jeez... That's terrible. I really do hope they get this resolved for you. :(

MY WORD! You have a whole story and you have no idea what's up! Looks like you are going to have to drive it around and around the area of your dealer until it gets hot. There goes another day of work! Bummer! :(

Woah... Is this another MOP problem I wonder?? Is this an AT or MT?

Sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me. You may have gotten a bad tank of gas in Georgia which has clogged the fuel filter. Slowing down reduces the fuel requirement and allows the engine to run, which in turn pulls more crap into the filter causing the engine to cut out. Then when the particulates settle to the bottom of the tank, the car will run again for a while.

Good luck with the repair...I doubt the oil pump is the problem.

Gomez.

Fuel delivery - why didn't I think of that. We had a bad batch of fuel get out up here from Conoco/Phillpis - destroyed a butch of fuel injectors around Seattle. Gomez is right I bet. This MOP situation was just a hunch hip shot at best. :)

Many years ago (~76) when I worked at Mazda USA we bought back a RX3 wagon with similar problems. No dealer or the field rep could find the problem. Partialy because it could not be duplicated. After the by back we had one of the office staff drive it back and forth to work. Eventually the problem occured. With the better info from the staff guy we also felt fuel starvation. Since the filter & pump were already changed we dropped the fuel tank. Guess what? A assembly line parts tag was inside the tank! We felt it only sometimes blocked the fuel pick up starving the engine. Put all back together and the staff guy drove it for a few more months. Then liked it so much. and a good deal, bought the car.

Hope they find your problem!

Dont know how long the commute from your home to work is... and how out of the way your dealership is but... If I were you I'd drive the car to work tomorrow. Drive normal, not too slow, not too fast and just wait and see what happens. If the car fails again, pull over right then and there and call the dealership and have one of their service techs come to your location to see the problem.

I'd leave my house way early to give me time to get to work.

I know it sounds like a lot of hassle and you sure dont deserve having to do all of this, but if its what will get your vehicle fixed. After the problem is finally resolved, I'd try to get Mazda to reimburse you for any rental/hotel and missed work costs.

Best of luck :)

Hundreds of cars on a major highway driving by looking at a broken down RX8 on the side of the road....that's plenty more people who won't be buying the car based on reliability.

The fuel starvation explanation sounds dead on the money. It would explain why no warning lights are coming on and the temp gauge isn't reading hot. I'm reminded that when the problem happened the first time, my instinct was to look at the gas gauge because it felt like I might be dangerously low. I was at a quarter tank, but I stopped and filled up 10 minutes later. No problems until the tank was about a quarter full.

I left the KY dealership, had the same problem 30 minutes later, pulled into a gas station, filled up, and made it to the IN dealer with no problems. They couldn't make the problem happen when they drove it.

Stopped for food at some point after leaving the IN dealership and filled up again. No problems until I was almost home and the tank was getting lower. This time it happened at lower speed, but the filter was probably so clogged that nothing was getting through. That's why I couldn't start it at all after it died. By this morning the junk had settled and I was able to baby it to the dealer.

The car (a 6-speed to answer somebody's question) is at the dealer tonight, so I'll give them a call in the morning and float the theory to them. They mentioned on the phone today that they had to gas up the car, so that could have contributed to the difficulty they were having getting it to reproduce.

My guess is that they drove it around the block a few times and saw no problems. They decided to take it on the highway, but they got some gas first. Couldn't make it happen on the highway.

If this is indeed the problem, could it have caused any permanent damage to the engine or anything else? What is the likely fix?

Thanks to all of you for your sympathy and advice! The worst part of the whole ordeal so far is that I've got a bare bones rental Altima parked in front of my place that I'll be driving for who knows how long. It's easy to get used to the 8 and forget how crappy most cars on the road are. Hopefully I'll be reunited soon.

If this is indeed the problem, could it have caused any permanent damage to the engine or anything else? What is the likely fix?


I doubt there'll be any permanent damage. If the filter is doing it's job properly then the injectors won't be clogged. It sounds as if it runs ok when it is running, so I'd say they are fine.

The fuel pump and filter are integral inside the tank. The pump and filter are changed as a single unit. It's not cheap, but you have a warranty so no drama's there. They'll have to drop the tank and clean it out. The fuel pump/filter can be replaced by removing the rear seat, but the tank will need to be dropped to get the gunk out of it (if this is indeed the problem!!)

Cheers,
Gomez.

Actually, bad fuel probably won't be covered under warranty....good luck! Check with the gas stations....see if anyone else has had issues.

Gomez.

Hundreds of cars on a major highway driving by looking at a broken down RX8 on the side of the road....that's plenty more people who won't be buying the car based on reliability.

It was not a nice feeling to know this isolated incident might be giving people a bad impression of the car. It was especially tough when some guy in a previous gen mustang GT gave me a mocking beep of the horn as he drove by :mad:

Luckily, I took lots of nice pictures while in the mountains of Georgia and looking at those makes me remember that there's no car I'd substitute that doesn't cost twice as much money or more.

Dang, sucks to hear about all the chit you went through. I do hope that its just some bad fuel. Either way I hope that its nothing major, good luck.

lemon???

GOSH, sorry to hear about your poor 8! Here goes one of those stories that end up in Consumer Reports....ouch!

GOMEZ...GREAT JOB!!! This website is just great...wow....GREAT JOB!

Fuel delivery sounds right on the money but I hope it's not a lemon either, poor Josche...poor 8...

I hope the best!!!

If it was bad gas, most fuel companies will pay the cost of repair if it is proven that their gas was to blame. Problem is, it has been topped off several times since the original incident, probably at different stations, so I don't know how that would work.

Premature by the better part of a month to call it a lemon. I'd feel like a total dork if I tried to lemon-law a car with a bad tank of gas or a dirty fuel filter.

If it was bad gas, most fuel companies will pay the cost of repair if it is proven that their gas was to blame. Problem is, it has been topped off several times since the original incident, probably at different stations, so I don't know how that would work.

I did some thinking about this last night and I'm pretty sure I've narrowed it down to which gas station it must have been (if bad fuel is the problem). I bought gas in Kentucky, drove it to nearly empty, then filled in Tennesse before proceeding to my destination. After that, I didn't put more gas in until I started experiencing the problem. If it was the tank I bought in Kentucky, I probably would have seen the problem before I filled up in TN. My guess it was the tank I bought in Tennessee. The problem didn't evidence itself until the fuel level was getting low, which meant a higher concentration of crap in the tank. This makes sense to me, but I don't know if the company whose gas I bought will agree.

I'll be calling the dealer and my insurance company this morning.

Fuel delivery sounds right to me. But in case that's not it, I should mention that a buddy of mine had similar problems with his 8, and eventually they replaced the oil pump, and it's run perfectly ever since. (I guess it kept going into limp-home mode when the oil pump was bad.)

please keep us posted with your results and GOOD LUCK!!!

Let us know what they find.

I thought of another issue related to fuel delivery. The RX8 has a upside down U shaped fuel tank. It uses the excess fuel released by the pressure regulator to make a vacume to draw the fuel from the passanger side of the tank. If the fuel inlet, not the main fuel filter is restricted or the pump itself is poor the presure regulator will not pass as much extra fuel through the venturi and not all the fuel will be drawn from the passenger side. This could be why your problem is more apparent when less than 1/2 tank. If there is dirt in the tank, make sure that all of it is removed. With the special shape that could be hard for a dealer to do.

I called the dealer this morning to float the dirty fuel theory. The service rep said it sounded reasonable and would pass it along to the tech.

The dealer called me at work this afternoon to say that they had again driven the car and been unable to reproduce the problem. He made a call to Mazda and is waiting for them to get back to him before they do anything.

Given the situation, I'm planning on picking up the car tomorrow and driving it until I have the problem again or Mazda figures out what they want to do about it. I'm concerned that the dealer apparently has done nothing but cursory investigation and test driving. They won't do anything further without say-so from Mazda or seeing the problem themselves.

Any thoughts or advice?

I called the dealer this morning to float the dirty fuel theory. The service rep said it sounded reasonable and would pass it along to the tech.

The dealer called me at work this afternoon to say that they had again driven the car and been unable to reproduce the problem. He made a call to Mazda and is waiting for them to get back to him before they do anything.

Given the situation, I'm planning on picking up the car tomorrow and driving it until I have the problem again or Mazda figures out what they want to do about it. I'm concerned that the dealer apparently has done nothing but cursory investigation and test driving. They won't do anything further without say-so from Mazda or seeing the problem themselves.

Any thoughts or advice?

Again...

I would just take the car back. There is nothing more frustrating than not having your car, and having it sit at the dealership not being fixed. I had my car at the dealership for 5 days when all it needed was a de-flooding and a possible reflash. A process which takes half a day, but I know they didnt get to it until the 4th day.

Anyway, I'd get your car back... and just agree with the tech that you'll be calling him as soon as the problem comes up. I'd have the tech come to you on site so that he can see. I'm sure that once they get to it, they can fix it within a day or two.

Best of Luck!

I had the same problem with my truck. I was pulling a popup on a trip and all of a sudden every time I would go up a hill or a overpass it would cut out and lose power. When I got down to 45mph it would start running again or when I put it in neutral. I went to a gas station and borrowed a wrench and opened the fuel filter by the carb. It had some dirt on it which I removed. It still was cutting out so when I got home I found the clear fuel fiter behind the rear wheel. It was full of water. Eventime I pull lots of power I was sucking in water. I replaced the filter and ran dry gas in the tank for a couple of times. I remember I filled up right before the trip at a station which was getting gas from a tanker. I didn't notice it until I was done. Now I never get gas at a station receiving fuel. You will get all sorts of dirt and water from the tank. They should even pump it while filling the tanks. I had no long term effects but sure spoiled my trip.

How does dry gas work? Where do you get it?

The salesman who sold me the car has by far been the most helpful person since the ordeal began. He recommended using some octane boost for a couple of tanks, saying that it would help to 'blow' whatever is in the filter through the fuel lines.

My dad recommended trying dry gas, but I'd like to know more about it.

Drove the car 30 miles into Chicago and back out again today without problems. I didn't push it above 65 though, I'm still spooked.

My plan is to do some heavy driving next Saturday while the service department is open to see if I can get the problem to happen again. I've got another road trip coming up for 4th of July weekend and I'd hate to have a repeat of my last experience.

Dry gas is usually marketed as a gas de-icer, to remove water from the tank. Any auto parts or wally world will have it. Just ask for their product that helps remove water from the gas tank.

I just read in another post that a guy on this forum never lets his tank get below 1/4 full because the fuel pump motor is cooled by the fuel and could overheat if the fuel level gets low.

Has anyone else heard of this? This could be another explanation for my problem.

"dry gas" is usually methyl hydrate....it mixes, and absorbes the water...and is then burnt.

It works really well if the problem is water in the gas....
ps...you can buy it by the quart at the hardware store for a lot less than the price of a tiny bottle of the gas additive

I think the general advise "do not drive till tank is empty" can be found in most car user manuals. Reason is to avoid getting the concentrated sediments from the bottom of the tank getting into the fuel filter and engine.

I have not heard of fuel pump overheating when less than 1/4. However, I have come across many car user manuals advising "do not let windscreen washer tank run empty to prevent pump from getting damaged". I had on occasion run the washer empty and heard the pump struggling. It's obviously not a nice way to treat equipment.

My habit is to fuel up whenever I am near a gas station when my tank is anywhere near 1/4. Ditto my washer tank. Just a safe practice to conserve and be prepared.

-Ringer-

Update -

I took another drive down to Georgia last week. Same trip as before. This time I kept my speed lower and stopped to fill the tank whenever it got to half full, which meant a lot of stops.

On the way back up, I bumped the speed higher but still filled the tank at half full. I didn't have a single problem with the car. Nor did I have any problems with my daily driving over the couple of weeks prior to the trip.

In a way this is more frustrating than breaking down because I'm afraid that the problem isn't solved, just masked. I don't want to be walking on eggshells with the car, I want to be able to completely trust it again.

Thanks again for the advice and support, I'll let you know if anything new surfaces.

Josh

Josh, time to run it low again. Use the tank right up and run on the low fuel light for 30 miles. It's the only way to check if you have water or particulate contamination in the tank.....short of removing the tank, anyway.

We need to put this issue to bed.

Gomez.

Josh, time to run it low again. Use the tank right up and run on the low fuel light for 30 miles. It's the only way to check if you have water or particulate contamination in the tank.....short of removing the tank, anyway.

We need to put this issue to bed.

Gomez.

bring a can of gas with you because some guy on here, who wanted to see how far the 8 will go after the light comes on, got 29 miles out of her before running empty... :p

Well, I didn't post up after doing it, but I am WALKING (emphasis: WALKING) testimony that after the fuel light comes on, if you're not at a gas station within 25 miles, you're likely going to taking "the Ankle Express".

:(

Really...? I get 50 miles with the fuel light on, haven't run out yet. I sometimes wonder if it's the fuel you guys have in the US that causes so many of your problems.

Fouled plugs, carboned up engines at high altitude, crap MPG etc. You also have strange winter/summer brew fuel too.....we don't seem to have any of those dramas here.

Gomez.

Really...? I get 50 miles with the fuel light on, haven't run out yet. I sometimes wonder if it's the fuel you guys have in the US that causes so many of your problems.

Fouled plugs, carboned up engines at high altitude, crap MPG etc. You also have strange winter/summer brew fuel too.....we don't seem to have any of those dramas here.

Gomez.

And your beer tastes better too. Shit.

I think that fuel light is variable. I once stretched it to about 40 miles, which got me plenty confident - put 14.3 gals into the tank that time. Then ran it out of gas at 25 miles into the light. So, now when the light goes on, I'm stopping. I think "fuel slosh" has much to do with that, and it appears that once that light is "tripped" is stays on until the tank is filled beyond a certain level above the trip point. I might have tripped it early the day I stretched it by cornering.

Also, type of driving after it goes on greatly affects it. My 25 miles was all urban driving in fairly heavy/slow traffic (driving home from work) >> in that traffic my car gets 15-16 MPG versus 20 >> 22 on the hwy. Right there is the difference between 25 and 40 miles on the light.

I spose my driving is 50% city, 50% 60mph stuff...

The main reason i hear people dont run their cars below 1/4 tank is because dirt and crap tends to gather up at the bottom of the gas tank. If you take fuel from this area you will have problems. It will clog up the filter and then... well you know.

Same problem was in the 3rd gen rx7's. They had problems with turbo's going out left and right and it was because the fuel filter was in a real shitty location and mechanics wouldn't change them. They would get clogged over time and would damage the turbo's. It earned the 3rd gens a bad reliability rep, when it wasn't their fault.

I'm glad everything looks to be sorted. Did you ever end up running a fuel system cleaner? If you haven't, i would. Also keep track of your mileage, even if the car is running ok, you might still have a lingering problem which could end up in even worse gas milage then usual!

Close there cleoent. That is why you don't really want to run it low, because of the sediment . The fuel filter was a pita on the 3rd gens. I just paid a good bit to have mine changed. But it wouldn't damage the turbos necessarily. It would cause the car to lean out and detonate, and that'd be a new engine. But if you are real lucky, on the apex seal's way out of the motor, it'd go through the turbos and chew up the internals, and there's where your new turbos come in. Running the fuel down too low can cause you to lean out too, regardless of your fuel filter condition, but that's not as big of a deal on a NA engine.

the whole don't go below 1/4 tank is a bunch of crap. WTH do you think happens when your car sits all night? All the sediment still goes right to the bottom. If it was a sediment/water problem it'd be especially bad on startup after sitting.

Now if you managed to have some floating debris in your tank, some paper or some plastic or whatever that would do it.

while on the subject whats a good fuel system cleaner and how often are we supposed to use those?

sorry no need to answer that, i just did a search

wow another problem, guess im not the only one with big problems.

Sort of a no-news update:
I've driven the car a few thousand miles since the original problems happened and haven't experienced the issue again. On road trips, I've been filling the tank when it gets to half-way full.

Looking at the info about the recall that's coming up, I'm wondering if some other scenarios are possible (other than the crap in the fuel tank scenario or the fuel pump overheating due to low fuel level scenario)...

Overheating screwed up my fuel gauge, which was reading 1/4 full when it was empty?

Some sort of fuel tank damage?

Is there any way that I can gain access to the fuel tank to check for debris or sediment? I haven't added a fuel cleaning agent yet, I'll try that this week to be safe.

glad to know you havent expirienced any further problems

Thanks!

Unfortunately, I don't really trust the car anymore. I've had quite a few nightmares about it breaking down. It seems that other people are experiencing similar problems. After my post above, I found this thread:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=62339

Sounds like lots of people are experiencing power loss issues on hot days. I hope it gets figured out soon, I love my car and want to be able to trust it again. It's like a beautiful girlfriend who cheated on you once...

Sort of a no-news update:
I've driven the car a few thousand miles since the original problems happened and haven't experienced the issue again. On road trips, I've been filling the tank when it gets to half-way full.

Looking at the info about the recall that's coming up, I'm wondering if some other scenarios are possible (other than the crap in the fuel tank scenario or the fuel pump overheating due to low fuel level scenario)...

Overheating screwed up my fuel gauge, which was reading 1/4 full when it was empty?

Some sort of fuel tank damage?

Is there any way that I can gain access to the fuel tank to check for debris or sediment? I haven't added a fuel cleaning agent yet, I'll try that this week to be safe.

Tank damage? Unlikely, look for puddles on the garage floor. Gauge faulty? If it reads okay now, then that's not the answer.

It was just a tank of crap fuel. No way to check inside for crap without dropping the tank, I'm afraid. Just drive and enjoy...... :)

Gomez.

I'd say the best way to see if it'll ever happen again is to just drive the car as if the problem(s) never happened. Its a bit risky seeing that you might be stuck on the side of the road if the problem appears again, but its better to know now then just go years wondering it if will ever happen again...

... especially now while you still have warrantee. :o