This is the first time I've had a problem with the car. It's a pretty hot day today (>90), and I was driving home. Car was warm, A/C on, about 30 minutes into my trip. I took off from a light (not real hard), and heard what almost sounded like a misfire or predetonation. I drove a few miles farther and was in my subdivision going up a hill, when I hear what almost sounded like a grating noise at around 4000 RPM. I turned the corner and came to a stop sign, and when I stopped, it died and won't start again. Seems like it's flooded. I'm going to let is sit for a while and cool off, and I'll try to start it again. Any idea what this might be?

Ironically, I called the dealership today to schedule an appointment for plug/filter change. I told him I'd also like them to fix my idle vibration problem, which I've been complaining about since 18K miles (I have 37K now). He asked what octane gas I've been using. I've used either 89 or 93 octane, but almost always 89. He said that will cause carbon build-up, rough idle, and stalls. The car has run well since I've had it, and I've never had it stall on me unitl today. I routinely take it to 9K rpm to avoid any carbon build-up problem. Is it possible that this problem is related to gas? Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere, but the unsophisticated search engine didn't help.

I'm going out to check on it, but will look for advice when I get back. Thanks, all.

i think your cat died

Just let them run a diagnostic on it.... I am taking my 8 in because the stupid ventilation system is broken and the heater is perm. on.

I had a very similar experience, what happened was the float in the gas tank got mis aligned, and I actually ran out of gas, but the gauge showed me at half.

Well, I went back out to the car after letting it sit about 30 minutes. I cranked it for about 6 seconds, and it started. There was no CEL, and it acted normal on the way to the house. I'm thinking it was somehow heat-related.

Zoom - I've been worried about the cat, because this is a 09/03 K-flash build.

Does anyone think I can call BS on the 89-octane? I have never had any power loss or hesitation problems with this car, even as recently as yesterday - it just goes like a bat outta hell.

I no longer have a warm fuzzy about the dealership - I had been dealing with a great service tech ever since I bought the car, and I found out today that he's no longer there. So this new guy gives me the instant phone diagnosis for my idle vibration problem, saying it must be my problem because I've been using 89-octane gas, causing carbon buld-up, yadda yadda. How does one accumulate carbon build-up when the car hits 9K RPM alt least 5 times per tankful?

Do you think I can call BS on the gas explanation?

Never give the dealer an out. They'll take it everytime.

I have been using 87 octane for the last 18,000 miles (26,000 total) with no issues, and I doubt your symptoms are a result of carbon build-up.

The Cat does not sound likely, as they seem to fail after a flood. You did not mention having a flooding issue prior to this incident, and you had no loss of power after startup.

Did you have any CEL? If not, my suspicion lies with the spark plugs, if they are original.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Dude, that just happened to me two weeks ago! After I got the car back on, I drove to the dealership. The ride was terrible let me tell you. Rough as hell! Turns out I just needed an oil change. Seems to be working fine now. I have a few blips here and there with the idle, but no harm done. I hope. :confused:

the gas issue is BS. octane is an indicator of how easy it is to ignite the fuel 89 is easier to ignite than 93. so you should be geting more complete combustion with the 89. but that doesnt mean there isnt some carbon build up. it just means its not from the lower octane gas.the amoun this car runs rich combined with an intially over working mop could easily have left some build up over time.

So this new guy gives me the instant phone diagnosis for my idle vibration problem, saying it must be my problem because I've been using 89-octane gas, causing carbon buld-up, yadda yadda.

So when they say it is your problem, does that mean they do not want to cover it under warranty? If that is the case, jump up their ass. If 89 octane caused damage to your engine, then in the manual, and inside the fuel door, it would say "Premium Required". It only says Recommended inside the fuel door, and I believe it says the same thing in the manual. I thought it says you can use fuel with a lower octane than 91, but that you will have diminished performance. I don't care what a mechanic or service manager says, that manual is the "bible" and as long as you follow that, you're going to be okay in my opinion.

In fact I looked at the manual in my RX-8, and it says 87 octane or higher is required, 91 or higher is recommended for better performance.

So the tech is full of BS. They can't deny a warentee claim based on 87+ octane.

I'm not sure on the compression of the RX-8, but I know higher compression engines need higher octane gas.

the higher octane is recommended to help prevent knock/pre-detonation. if the computer senses a knock it will retard timing in order to prevent more. the change will also reduce performance hence the manuals wording about reducing performance. but the higher octane itself produces no performance benefit. in fact as i stated earlier since the hiher octane is more resistant to ignition, if the car is run alot at lower rpms then the carbon build up will occur sooner causing lower performance.

Thanks for the opinions. I also think the gas excuse is BS. I don't think they'd use it to avoid warranty work, bu they me use it to avoid looking for the real vibration problem, which I believe is related to something loose under the car or a a cracked engine mount.

With respect to the car dying, there was no CEL, but maybe it stored a code. I'll have them check it. BTW, the car drove just fine today, and it is in the 90's again, just like yesterday. Very weird.

Well, the exact same thing happened again yesterday. It was a very hot day, and I had been sitting in a lot of traffic. Same mettalic grinding sound and loss of power. I managed to get home, but I don't know what the hell is happening. It was fine today (although it was cooler out). I really think it has to do with high ambient temps.

Well, the exact same thing happened again yesterday. It was a very hot day, and I had been sitting in a lot of traffic. Same mettalic grinding sound and loss of power. I managed to get home, but I don't know what the hell is happening. It was fine today (although it was cooler out). I really think it has to do with high ambient temps.

Well, I had a very similar experience. Running 80 on interstate, 86 degrees and humid, four people in car, A/C running. I came off the interstate, slowed, downshifted, and tried to merge into traffic. NO POWER.

Let up on gas and merged in. Got to the next light and ran briskly through the gears. At 6000 in 3rd, I had a rattling, grinding sound. I let off. Got home and shut it down.

Could this be yet another set of examples of the MOP problem? With insufficient oil supply the seals will fail to seal properly and a loss of internal pressures will result, kinda like blown compression rings in a piston engine. Take a look at the Finish Line Performance website to see the MSP04 tech bulletin. I think it not only discusses noise and loss of power above 6,000 rpm's but it also mentions stalling while hot or coolant temp sensor problems. Something like that. Mazda is gonna be hurtin' if they don't get this stuff resolved.

CRH

they already are hurting, the latest polling just came out on manufacturer warranty claims and Mazda, while not the worst, is at the bottom of the list for number of claims per hundred vehicles

edit: tied for 2nd to last to be exact



Brand performance

J.D. Power's survey of 2005 car buyers found an industry average of 118 problems reported for every 100 vehicles. Here are the number of problems per 100 vehicles for each brand:

Above average

Lexus 81

Jaguar 88

BMW 95

Buick 100

Cadillac 104

Mercedes-Benz 104

Toyota 105

Audi 106

Infiniti 109

Hummer 110

Hyundai 110

Honda 112

GMC 113

Lincoln 113

Acura 116

Below average

Jeep 120

Mercury 120

Nissan 120

Chrysler 121

Chevrolet 127

Ford 127

Mitsubishi 129

Pontiac 129

Dodge 130

MINI 130

Scion 134

Saab 136

Saturn 136

Subaru 138

Kia 140

Volvo 140

Porsche 147

Volkswagen 147

Land Rover 149

Mazda 149

Suzuki 151

Source: J.D. Power and Associates.

Happens to me on hot days also. Going to the dealer in the a.m.

I wonder if there will be an epidemic - I was at the dealership this morning at 7:20AM, and I left at about 7:45. While I was there, 3 other RX-8s were dropped off. I would have asked what they were in for, but I was busy talking to some poor soul who was driving to Florida from San Diego with his wife and 2 kids to attend his father's funeral. His alternator went out somewhere in West Texas. He had to buy three batteries to get to San Antonio, where he thought he could get an alternator. I felt so bad for him - he said if he wasn't on the road by noon, he'd miss his dad's funeral.

they could have pulled one off an inventory car

Update - the service dept. called today asking for permission to do a 40-mile test drive. The guy said that Mazda Tech Line was requesting the test be performed and that data be collected, especially O2 sensor data. I'm not sure which problem this is meant to address - the hot temp loss of power and stalling, or the request I made that they check the cat because after the N flash I smelled rotten eggs for about 3 weeks. They did say they were going to replace my engine mount to hopefully fix my vibration problem.

Also, I woke up at 3 AM to the sound of hail - perfect time to have my car sitting at the dealership instead of in my garage...

Mazda needs some new tech' who can identify problems without guessing!! They never check or go through the car throughly. They just well it in and out!! And you call Mazda help line and get no help. They say it is up to the dealership.

Step up Mazda!

A prime example of relying too much on computers to do the thinking; if there is no CEL there must not be a problem.

CRH

Well, they drove the car 77 miles since I dropped it off. They collected data on it and sent it to tech line. Last thing tech line wants them to do is remove O2 sensor and check to see if cat might be breaking up.

BTW, I asked if they saved the plugs as I had requested. He said they were probably already packed up to be sent to Mazda. He said everything with the exception of liquids is sent back to Mazda for analysis and verification of warranty claim. He said he could go pull them out of shipping, but I told him not to bother.

I received the car back last Friday. They did not find any problem related to why it stalled on me. I am updated to P flash now, so I guess I'll just see what happens this summer. My mileage on my first tank since the P flash is the lowest I've had since I was breaking it in a year ago.

On the bright side, replacing the engine mount seems to have helped the vibration at idle somewhat, although it still exists. They also replaced the A/C amplifier for the second time, and the A/C performance is better than it has been.

I have been running 93 octane for the last couple of tankfuls, and I usually use 89. This may explain the crappy mileage - I have always gotten worse mileage from 93 than from 89.

Anyway, I'll give the dealership an A- for effort, although the results were not quite what I hoped for.

Ever since temperatures have been above 90+ degrees in PHX my car has had similar problems. After being on the freeway for 15 miles or so, with the AC on, my car losses power, to the point were I have had to pull off the freeway. I have had it in two dealerships a total of three times and the last time I left it for 5 days while I was on vacation and they put 350+ miles on it (they claim only 150 miles). The problem still exists and they say there is nothing they can do about it until Mazda comes out with a PCM update in a couple of months. That is insane. Am I supposed to just grin and bare it?

I hope you have better luck than I have had.

happened to me last night, it was hot out with alot of humidity. I was driving on the highway aNd then boom power loss and engine shut off, it would not start up at first and then my engine light was flashing. I pulled over and poped the hood didnt see anything ( a couple of days ago i had a major blow by with alot of oil in the intake system) well i start it up agian and i drive slowly in the right lane i try not to let the car idle becasue that is how it died at first. A couple of times the car shut off but went back on by itself. after that i go to the club and get home around 3:30 am.


I think the problem was i had a after market intake with a S&b filter, the filter was prob to small and did not give enough air during idle because of the high humidity

wow sorry to hear this guys, this is the first i've heard of this knda problem...i've thankfully never exsperianced it...knock on wood...i did live in Georgia (fort stewart) for the firtst year of the car's life...it got hot there with lots of humidity..but she ran like a champ.....but that was on the m flash...dunno if that has anythign to do with it.

hope everythign gets sorted out and fixed so you can enjoy your 8's :D

godevils or eclipso are you ATs?

6speed

eclpso it's your after market intake. It's a know problem. Do a search.

If you want a god intake, sell that pc of crap and get a Racing Beat Revi8 intake.

Mine is a 6 speed and it does not have an after market intake.

So Showcase Mazda in Phoenix had my car for 2 full days, then contacted my wife. They told her that they were fully aware of the problem, and that there would be yet another PCM reflash to fix the issue. They had to timetable for the reflash though, because it failed the EPA review the first time it was submitted.

They reccommended a stronger battery and an engine carbon flush, saying experience has shown this to help the condition. Since this was not the actual fix however, it would not be done under warranty. Sum total was like $190. This angered my wife, who then fought with Mazda NA until they agreeed to pay for it as a "goodwill" gesture.

With that stuff done, the car hasn't died yet. It has cooled off here a bit since the work was done, so time will tell. I can't believe they will just say "wait for the flash" for a condition that causes a car to unexpectedly lose power or stall. This can be very hazardous on the roadway. Mazda doesn't seem to be showing adequate concern for the safety of the drivers of it's flagship automibile.

If it's any consolation, I haven't had any funny stuff happen since I got mine back, although it hasn't been super-hot. Maybe the P flash made a difference. I've also been using only 93 octane for the last few tankfuls. Also, my mileage took a hit after the flash, but its back up to 20 again. Maybe it had to relearn a few things.

eclps0- intake. godevils- not sure but i dotn think it is the carbon problem the ATs are seeing. go rev the hell out of it and see if the problem returns:)

jerryf- they admitted there was a problem, suggested an temporary resolution but were going to charge you for it? WTF kind of nonsense is that? they have got to be out of their frikking minds- they are replacing engines BY THE DOZEN in texas but they want to charge you to clean one.

i found out the problem, it was the filter i was using, it was to small and had oil from the prevoius blow by of oil. also it was very humid outside.

Zoom44,
The engine was replaced last dec. and I try to redline it as much as I can without getting speeding tickets. The problem occurs during the heat of the day when temp. is above 95 degrees, also it is most notable when the AC is on, with is a must in Phoenix this time of year. Any other ideas would be helpful. Thanks.

Well, it was 108F today, and the car ran flawlessly. The bigger battery / carbon flush combination therapy seems to have helped a lot. I am quite sure it would have died on me today if that hadn't been done.

Anyone in PHX having this problem should insist on the bigger battery and a carbon flush. If they want you to pay for it (like they tried to make me do), call MAZDA NA and scream at them until they pony up. The car is truly unsafe to drive with unexpected poer loss/stall.

All that being said, I hope to heck I'm not back on here tomorrow posting about how it died again. I was truly surprised at how well it ran today. I was expecting it to die, because it is HOT today.

zoom44- I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it was crazy! When it was on my dime, they were like THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE THE CAR DRIVABLE. Once we inquired why it wasn't covered under warranty (<24k miles, BTW) they were like WELL, IT'S REALLY ONLY A SUGGESTION.

I recently had to remove my battery and check some connectors for the APV and MOP harnesses. When I reinstalled the battery I decided to just rag the Hell out of the engine and it seems to run better after having done that, alomost as if some of the carbon has blown out(?). I will try the carbon cleaning idea as soon as I am able. Thanks for the info.

CRH

I remember speaking last year of how damn hot the engine bay gets(rotory curse) in the summer. Is it possible that the car is going into a fail safe mode? Sure cant trust the instrumentation.
just a thought. I m sure when the car is checked that would show.
olddragger

It was hot today in Phoenix, 113F. And the car died again today. Stalled 3X. The worst yet. The way it ran the other day (see above) I really thought that things were OK. They are not. The car is primarily driven by my wife in mucho downtown traffic, and is simply unsafe to operate. I was so stoked when we bought this car, it was the coolest car on the road in my opinion. Now the thought of another trip to the dealer turns my stomach. It's going in on a hook this time, as I don't trust the car to make it across town anymore. What should have been an awesome ownership experience is being ruined.

I wonder if you have some fuel vapor lock going on. That's a distinct possibility.

Vapor lock, for the curious, is what happens when the fuel in the lines evaporates to a vapor instead of being a liquid. Vapors don't pump very well, so vapor lock can prevent an engine from being started. This is usually only a problem in hot weather with carbureted vehicles. The problem is largely non-existent in fuel-injected vehicles.

from http://type2.com/bartnik/pump.htm

Got the car back today. They replaced the catalytic convertor. They said that they never got it to stall, but it did lose power on a freeway test drive. They also threw in the "abuse" allegation, saying that the heat shield was ripped off the convertor. Keep in mind that the last time they gave me the car back, the front undertray was hanging off the car. So I am abusing it??? I am afraid not. Then they told me that I can only run 92 octane Chevron gas from now on. There is a Chevron station by where I work, but that is a little ridiculous.

We'll see if the new CAT fixes it or not. I doubt it will. Otherwise they'd be replacing them by the dozen in TX, not engines. They stand firm that my problem is unrelated to the engine issues experienced primarily in TX. So we shall see.

Well, I've been away from my baby for for a couple of weeks now, on vacation in Wisconsin. I'ts really hot in Texas now, so I'm looking forward to getting back and seeing how mine behaves in the severe hot weather. The only thing they did (to my knowledge) was reflash me to the 'P' version. They supposedly tested my cat and said it was fine. Keep us posted, jerryf, I'll be following your case closely.

Sounds like that new CAT will work.

There is obvioulsy a problem with high air temp. I have been having the same problem since the temps have gotten up there in North Florida. I thought it may have something to do with the K&N Typhoon intake so I took it off, to no avail. BTW I don't like the K&N anyway, the car runs better on the stock intake system.
I had it to the dealer after the first problem and they could find nothing, but of course they checked it in the morning during cool temps.
Now, check this out, it happened the second time in the same spot, out on the highway!?
I was in a low area on an expressway and, both times, the outside air temp was near 100. It loses power, rattles like it is detonating and basically will barely run. It was on the 4th so no dealer open and I continued toward home at the coast. The closer to the coast I got, the lower the outside air temp and the better it ran again. By the time I was near my home, the temp was down to 85 and it ran great. On the way to the dealer after the last episode (PM -July 5, 97 degrees) I had to shift down to fourth gear to maintain 60 MPH going over a bridge. It would also not maintain speed going over simple overpasses. The biggest problem is the only 8 tech at the dealer just returned from 2 weeks vacation and they can't even look at the car until the 12th.
After the first episode there were no codes. I at least got to talk to the tech, a very good guy who really cares about his job, and explained exactly what it was doing and it was definitely related to outside air temp.
Even though I chocked it up to high altitude, it did the same thing last summer on our vacation. We were in Montana going through the mountains and the temp was 101. I canceled going further into nowhere land because I was afraid to go farther away from a dealer. We went south from that day and the temps were not nearly as hot. We had no further troubles on the trip.
Even though I have little time to come on the forum, I'll try to get back to tell you what is found. I will also contact my poeple at Mazda North America and see if I can get through to a tech person to see if they are aware of the problem. Just being aware doesn't mean they will have a solution.

Okay, I just got off the phone with Mazda North America. My contact is in purchasing but she keeps abreast of what's going on. She couldn't have the head tech guy call me back because he's in Phoenix.
The current situation is that MNAO and Mazda - Japan are aware of the problem. The big problem is they are having one hell of a time identifying what is actually causing the problem. They have a team of people from MNAO and Japan in Phoenix and another in Dallas working on the problem.
I know patience is a virtue that's tough, but they have every asset available working on the problem. Your dealer is not at fault, even though most tend to come across as uncaring and always look for a chance to claim "not warrantee."
The teams have tried several things which have seemed to work but then it comes back.
I've worked with Mazda engineers (transmission division) for nearly twelve years, and beleive me, I've never worked with people more dedicated to the good name of their company. They will find and fix the problem.
My contact suggested asking you guys to ALL call Dealer Assistance Group and complain about this problem, the squeekier the wheel, the more priority will be put on it.
That number is (877)727-6627

Kurt

Maybe if i get everyone with a tranny issue to call that number, people will get somewhere with their defective transmissions....

Wrong number^

I wonder what they are doing in Phoenix??? I was told that my car was "the only one in Phoenix" having this problem, and they certainly aren't working on my car.

I haven't put many miles on the car since the new cat, so I really can't say whether it's fixed or not. I took a road trip to Vegas last weekend, but took my Escape, as I do not trust the RX8 anymore. The few miles I have put on it since I got it back have been flawless though, so maybe they got it. Time will tell.

Sorry about the Phoenix, my girl was confused, the team is in Vegas.
abbid said the number is wrong also, so it's being checked on.
I am supposed to get a call from the team leader, but it may not be until after the weekend.
My car is consistantly doing the problem, so I have volunteered that they can take my car wherever it needs to go for testing. I know how hard intermittent problems are to find and my car does it EVERY time it's over 95 degrees with just a few miles driving.
The closest dealer isn't much to talk about, so they may ask me to take it to another with a tech that can help them find what mine's doing.

We can also help them by putting together a list of which cars are doing it.
Mine is : 2004 MT latest flash (done after first episode of this problem - had "N" at the time)
I run 89 octane gas - problem comes up at about 95 degrees outside air temp, goes away at 85 degrees. It is directly related to outside air temp - the hotter it gets the worse it runs - the cooler, the better.

for those that have had stalling when the car was warmed up and got a cel code. if the cel is/was P0172 (fuel trim too rich) then there is a good chance there is a fuel injector problem. It would be either a fuel injection wiring harness fault or an actual incorrect positioning of the injectors themselves. if you have a stall with this code make sure they check the injectors and injector harnesses.

Just an update on my situation. It's been hotter than Hades here since I got back from vacation. I've been driving in ~100 degree weather, but I haven't been caught in any traffic jams (both times I had a problem, it was hot and I'd been idling a lot). I've had no problems. Still using 93 octane - I guesss I'd suggest people try 93 to see if it makes a difference. I'm almost afraid to return to 89 now...

In this part of New Mexico the outside temps just recently got to the century mark. Driving home I got the low power condition, but I first noticed while drive down the freeway at 60mph with the AC on, of course. Once the temp dipped down a few degrees (to 100) the power levels returned to normal. No missing, just sluggish. I run 91 octane...highest available around here, with 'M' flash. It happened once before on a very hot day, but I don't recall it being at 100 or more, but it might have been. That was the first time it happened and I didn't know to relate it to outside temp. Interestingly enough I was driving with another NM RX8 and he indicated that at about the same time I experienced reduced power, so did he. It recovered at about the same time as well.

There were no codes thrown in either event. I plan on connecting the scanner on the next really hot day and record things like CAT and Intake Air Temps, along with throttle position and command to see if there is any relationship when the power is down.

Kewl, great idea and I'm sure MNAO wants to know what it shows.
The guy that's supposed to call me, has not, so I don't know anything new, other than I'm sick of my car sitting in my shop. I'm less than 700 miles from the end of the warrantee and NO WAY I'm going over before this issue is taken care of.
Mine does it at 95 degrees and it gets better as the temp drops, completely going away by 85 degrees. I wish a standard keyboard had the little degree "0" so I didn't have to keep spelling it out!
One difference between the west and here in sunny Florida is humidity which may also effect it. I know mine goes away at about 5 degrees less than what you westerners are talking about.
BTW, we love all the "four corners" states and that area in particular. I don't remember Corralles, NM, we were through Taos last summer on our way home from Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Mesa Verde and Arches National Parks. We did Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon and the indian ruins on our last trip, in '00. The drive from Jackson Hole to Montpelier, Idaho, was really memorable in the RX8!! I said something about it a few weeks ago and my wife started shaking, all over again!!

Kwullen,

I guess I don't blame you for leaving it in the shop - at least you have a darn good reason to do that. I'm disappointed that they don't note the problem and let you have it back since it was discovered before warranty ended.

It is much dryer here, I grew up in Daytona Beach so I understand the difference. The altitude is a bit higher here too. I'm at about 5500 feet. I might try the test with the computer connected tomorrow if the forecast says it will be hot enough. It seems it has to be close to 100 or more before I encounter the problem.

Corrales is just North of Albuquerque - about 2.5 hours from Taos. Your wife should be pleased that your went from Jackson Hole and not to Jackson Hole from Montpelier. At least you were going uphill - as I recall. I've taken that road myself, just not in the 8. It would be fun to do that I'm sure.

I have taken the 8 out on track day at a road course in Colorado. If you EVER get a chance to do that, with some instructions first, do it. It was a blast and to see what the car would do was just beyond belief. I had no idea that what we do on some of the twisty road is peanuts compared to what the car will actually do on the track. The limitation is the driver...and how close those tire barrier appear to be getting to the car. lol

More on the heat/power test once I've had a chance to conduct one.

I'm beginning to wonder if the problems I was having a while back are related to what you guys are experiencing:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=63169

I experienced repeated power loss and engine shut-off during a 700-mile road trip.

1st time it lost power, I was on twisty mountain roads with 1/4 tank of gas, running it fairly hard and fast. When the power cut, I slowed down and stopped 10 miles later at a gast station.

1st time it died, I'd been driving for about 150 miles 70-80mph, AC on. Towed to a dealer where it sat overnight. The next day they flashed the computer, drove it for a while and couldn't reproduce the problem.

Half an hour after leaving the dealership, the car lost power. 1/4 tank of gas. I limped it to a gas station, filled up, and was able to take back roads to a different dealer. They drove it and couldn't reproduce the problem.

A few hours later (1/4 tank of gas) it lost power and finally died 5 miles from my house. Had it towed to my house. The next morning it wouldn't start. The following day I was able to drive it to the dealer where I bought it, 20 miles away. They drove it and were not able to reproduce the problem.

Since that I've done a lot of driving, but I've made sure to keep 1/2 a tank or more in it while on extended road trips. No problems.

Similar symptoms, but not under identical conditions to what you guys have been experiencing. When it happened, it was the first time I'd run the car in hot weather for an extended period with the AC on, it was also the first time I'd taken it on a road trip.

Since the incident happened, I've had reocurring nightmares about my car losing power. I'd literally sleep better at night if Mazda would identify and fix the problem so I know it won't happen again.

I'm beginning to wonder if the problems I was having a while back are related to what you guys are experiencing:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=63169

I experienced repeated power loss and engine shut-off during a 700-mile road trip.

1st time it lost power, I was on twisty mountain roads with 1/4 tank of gas, running it fairly hard and fast. When the power cut, I slowed down and stopped 10 miles later at a gast station.

1st time it died, I'd been driving for about 150 miles 70-80mph, AC on. Towed to a dealer where it sat overnight. The next day they flashed the computer, drove it for a while and couldn't reproduce the problem.

Half an hour after leaving the dealership, the car lost power. 1/4 tank of gas. I limped it to a gas station, filled up, and was able to take back roads to a different dealer. They drove it and couldn't reproduce the problem.

A few hours later (1/4 tank of gas) it lost power and finally died 5 miles from my house. Had it towed to my house. The next morning it wouldn't start. The following day I was able to drive it to the dealer where I bought it, 20 miles away. They drove it and were not able to reproduce the problem.

Since that I've done a lot of driving, but I've made sure to keep 1/2 a tank or more in it while on extended road trips. No problems.

Similar symptoms, but not under identical conditions to what you guys have been experiencing. When it happened, it was the first time I'd run the car in hot weather for an extended period with the AC on, it was also the first time I'd taken it on a road trip.

Since the incident happened, I've had reocurring nightmares about my car losing power. I'd literally sleep better at night if Mazda would identify and fix the problem so I know it won't happen again.


How have you been taking care of it when the troubles began?? Broken in correctly? Oil checking and filled regularly? Warmed up properly and revved high ever so frequently to flush out the system, etc.??

[QUOTE=I wish a standard keyboard had the little degree "0" so I didn't have to keep spelling it out!

Try ALT 248 for the degree symbol

I have been driving my 8 through a typical Phoenix summer and so far have not had any problems when the temp is over 100° (6sp 4/04 build date).

Yes, the car was broken in correctly (except for the 300 miles the dealer put on it before I bought it), has had oil changes and gets redlined pretty frequently. When the problem happened it had maybe 4K miles on it.

Kewl,
We went near Albequerque after Taos. I had gone to Philmont, the big Boy Scout ranch in '66 and we stopped there to show my wife and I got a new Philmont belt to go with the buckle I had kept. After Philmont in '66, Air Force boot camp in '70 was a joke!
I've driven my 8 on Road Atlanta, not on a lapping day but during a rather spirited touring session during the Walter Mitty weekend. Several of us were black flagged near ther end of the hour long session and not allowed back out for Sunday's "tour." Oh well, it was worth the 50 bucks! I probably have somewhere in the neighborhood of 5,000 miles at Road Atlanta and I was dumbfounded by the balance of my 8. One of the guys I was "touring" with also drove a 914/6 race car at the event. He looked me up in the paddock and asked for a closer look at the 8. Since he was driving his street 914/6 (gorgeously done car) and I had no trouble keeping up, he thought the stock street 8 would be competitive with the vintage 2.0 liter Porsches. I do have 245/40 S03 Bridgies on my 8 and I was equally impressed with their performance, feel and progression. The transitions at turn 2 and 3 and down through the esses were as good, if not better, than any formula car I've raced at Atlanta. My only complaint on performance is the car will corner at better g's than the seat will hold you. I have been considering a race bucket for it, but I'll be far enough under the jail, if I get caught, now. I do too many road miles commuting to think about beating myself up with MS, or another, suspension system. You can tell from the dates above, I'm getting too old for that s**t.
I'm not pleased that the MNAO rep has yet to contact me. If you have no solutions to tell me about, tell me that and listen to what I've found with temp/humidity differences, don't just f**king ignore me.
I'm sure they'd appreciate me ignoring them if they had a problem with the products they purchase from me.
joshe - the tank level and octanes have made no difference on my car. I brought my car home from my shop today, I'm going out of town and didn't want to leave it in the guys way at work. They put up with enough "car stuff" already! It was 97 and the car ran like crap after about 5 miles. Again, as I neared the coast and it got cooler, the performance came back. I did notice something new. The performance was much better in 1st through 3rd gears than in 4th or above. Interesting, don't they have two different maps for the lower and higher gears?
I'm beginning to believe their is a loss somewhere in or from the mass air flow meter when the air density is too low. I believe that's the difference with the temps from the dry west and the humid south. The higher humidity lowers air density faster. Race engines are always farther "off" on the dyno as both air temp and humidity increase. You want a killer dyno run, do it on a nice cold dry day in January.
Also, the Subaru prep shops have a velocity stack to use with the K&N Typhoon on that car. Why? Because it needs the velocity stack at the end of the Typhoon tube to keep good air flow through the MAFM.

Well I've done two days of driving in about 100 temps with the computer connected without any lose of power issues showing up. I have noted that the CAT temps have peaked at slightly over 1700 degrees for short periods of time. I have not compared any speed/rpm values to the high CAT temp. Intake Temp has also been high if you ask me. I've seen 135+ with an average of say 115-120 while driving home from work. Again I have not really studied the data yet, but when it is only 97 outside, the 115+ plus just seems high to me. I shall continue to drive with the computer connected, but tomorrow will be cooler than today and as a rule I did not see 100+ but once and that was starting out and once I got moving it dipped below the 100 mark.

Kwullen...I would love to drive Atlanta in the 8, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. We are planning on a drive on a track in Publeo CO later on this year. Don't recall track name, but I'm told it is one of the best in Colorado.

Well, I guess my "power loss, then it died" problem isn't fixed after all. Yesterday my car not only died, but I also had a flat.

At least I was able to start it up again right away, although I had to give it a good crank. I was scared sh*tless I would get rear-ended. It was a busy road, with no shoulders.

I think the reason I was doing OK for so long was that because school was out, I hadn't been sitting in traffic a lot in the heat. School just started up, and I spent a lot of time idling in the heat yesterday. IMO, there is definitely some design problem with this car. I wish someone at Mazda could just figure it out before someone gets killed.

Well, it happened again. Hot temps, stuck in traffic, and the car started acting very sluggish. Taking off from a light, I heard bad engine sounds when I pushed it hard. I know it would have died on me had I left the A/C on. I turned on the heater full blast and took it easy on the way home. I am taking the car in on Monday, and I DON"T WANT IT BACK until they can tell me they know exactly what the problem is and can fix it. Having my car die unexpectedly aroung here is a death wish. I am afraid to drive this car, now that school has started back up and traffic is congested. I'd be OK on the morning drive, when it's cool, but I know I'd have problems on the way home in the afternoon. This problem concerns me greatly - there is a design flaw in this car, and anyone who says otherwise is blowing smoke up our collective asses. I love this car, and I am extremely disappointed in what's happening. MAZDA, GET YOUR SH*T TOGETHER AND FIND THIS PROBLEM AND FIX IT!!!!!

Took the car in today. After describing my problem, the Service Manager said "Maybe your car is a Group 1 vehicle. There have been some engines problems with vehicles in that group."

So how do I know if I'm a Group 1 vehicle?

group 1 of the under car heat /thermal blanket recall

Talked to the dealership today. They tried real hard and were unable to duplicate any of the three problems I reported, two of which I experience on a continual basis. As far as the engine power loss and dying and marbles rattling in the can sound goes, they said essentially that on the first time they can duplicate the problem, they will reflash and give you your car back. The second time you bring it in for that problem, if they can duplicate the problem again, they will reflash and change spark plugs. You get the car back. You must have the problem occur a total of 4 times, and they must be able to duplicate it each time, before they replace the engine. I have already been reflashed and had the plugs changed the last time I had this problem (even though they were not able to duplicate the problem).

Then he suggested I try a different dealership, meybe they would have more luck at duplicating the problem.

I am so pissed I can't see straight! He gives me this line about how the technicians are master mechanics, and yet they can't do jack shit on their own. Every move they make is dictated by Mazda Tech Line. So here we are with summer coming to a close, and I probably won't be able to duplicate the problem for more than a few more weeks, because it will start cooling off. I've decided to go over there tomorrow afternoon, take the car, and drive it until I hopefully can duplicate the problem, then head straight for the dealership and hijack a mechanic. I paid full MSRP for this car, and they brush me off like this! They better hope I don't get another customer survey. I was trying to be nice to them on the last one, but there's no holding back now. I see a lot of 0's in their future.


And get this, they drove the damn car around without the A/C on, like that's how I would be driving it in 100 degree weather. In fact, I specifically told them when I dropped it off that when I had the problem, I turned off the A/C and turned on the heater to pull some heat from the engine. Sounds to me like they're trying hard not to find a problem.

Still waiting for my car back. Called the dealership today they have had the car since August 3 putting in a new engine. They said they were still working on it. Had to take drive shaft apart all the way to the back of the vehicle? Don't want a pieced together vehicle I'm paying mega bucks for.......

Today I took a half-day of vacation, and went to the dealership to get my car back and try to drive it around until it experienced a failure. It was over 100 degrees today, and by the time I was finished, my ambient temp display said 108 degrees - hotter than I have ever seen. I was sure I could get it to fail. I tried everything that I possibly could to duplicate the hesitation, power loss, and rattling sound in the engine. Lots of time spent at idle, followed by hard accels. Stop and go driving. I thought for sure I could get it to happen, but after 2 hours I could not duplicate it. It was getting to be closing time, so I just took the car back.

On the bright side, the rattling sound and vibrating that I've been complaining about for 22,000 miles was finally verified by the tech. They think there's a problem with the throwout bearing. They'll be tearing the clutch down tomorrow.

I'm not as angry as yesterday, since I talked to my salesman and he's going to talk to the GM about this. He understands my concern about possibly not being able to duplicate the problem while the car's still under warranty. I really do like this dealership, I'm just more frustrated at the process dictated by Mazda Corporate. Hopefully everything will work out in the end. I guess intermittent problems are the hardest ones to deal with.

Well, it looks like the weather's starting to cool off around here. Guess my problem won't rear it's ugly head until next summer, when the warranty has expired.

Yikes. As a relatively new RX-8 owner (got mine mid-July), this thread scares the crap out of me. I live in Phx, and you know how hot it can get here; fortunately, I'm happy to say I've never experienced the severe power loss or stalling problem. It definitely runs better in the morning when it's cool, though. The most disturbing thing about this thread is Mazda's apparent inability to solve problems and resulting customer dissatisfaction. Keep us posted, khoney.

Well gents, I wrote a note about loss of power early on in this thread and have been looking through the more recent notes.

This looks like a significant problem to me. Last week both our RX-8s went in for this same problem. Well… actually, my wife’s had all the classic symptoms and stalled in traffic. They did a compression check and stated that the rear rotor was not up to spec for compression and that they were REPACING THE ENGINE, as well as programming the system to use more oil.

That same day, my engine light came on and the car was running very rough. So, I took it in and they … RAN A COMPRESSION TEST…. This problem must be happening a lot. In the case of my 8, the compression was dead on (normally the compression is above spec) so they debated about installing an oil pump with a higher flow… They kept the car overnight and after a test drive, decided to ORDER AN ENGINE for my 8 also.

The head of the service department told me that carbon build up on the rear rotor seals was a problem. He told me that most people do not run up the revs enough to keep the seal deposits cleaned off.

Soooo, here we are waiting for motors.

That just blows my mind. Some dealers are ordering a new engine, even if it may not be warranted? I can't even got my dealership to run any tests, because they couldn't duplicate my problem...

Pay them to run a compression check. If you have a problem they won't charge you.

Sorry to hear so many folks are having problems with their dealers. We bought both our 8s from the same dealer and while it is out of the way to drive back there for service, they have done a great job taking car of us.

We have always told them that we are active consumers and openly report good and bad service to all our friends, and they have worked hard to keep us happy. I have developed a good relationship with the head of the maintenance department and it has paid off. Hell, they gave us Acura TLs as our loaners while this is being worked out.

We will continue to work with Ferman (on Florida Ave) in Tampa. We may be forced to look at other offerings (Acura, etc) if this motor issue continues. Hopefully, the replacement motor will address the group 1 shortfalls.

Good luck to all.

I have been reading the entire thread, and wow i must admit that my RX-8 is not the only one having problems. I took my RX-8 to the dealership for the 2 recalls, ball joint and gas tank heat shield, and told them about the engine stall/CEL problems..they told me my warranty void because of the intake and simple bolt one like after market exhaust installed. From what I've read and learned here, I don't think Mazda could fix the "BUG" even if my RX-8 wasn't moded. Any idea of quick fix beside better gas, carbon flush, new spark plugs, cat inspection, better intake system, or ECU flash?

How about running some two stroke oil in your gas? Then you at least know you have the lubrication covered.

That just blows my mind. Some dealers are ordering a new engine, even if it may not be warranted? I can't even got my dealership to run any tests, because they couldn't duplicate my problem...

Update to this thread - posted elsewhere, but I went to a different dealership, and they replaced my engine. They said there was a coolant leak from the rear rotor housing.

Your Vibration Issues Are Caused By Weak Or Broken Motor Mounts, The Lack
Premium Fuel Long Term Will Result In A Mystery Stall At High Temps Because The Apex Seals Will Lose Compression That Will Be Very Difficult To Diagnose And Will Require Engine Replacement

Update to this thread - posted elsewhere, but I went to a different dealership, and they replaced my engine. They said there was a coolant leak from the rear rotor housing.

How are you liking your new engine? Any problems with it? I wonder how long it takes for them (once they have the engine in stock) to change it out...

Your Vibration Issues Are Caused By Weak Or Broken Motor Mounts, The Lack
Premium Fuel Long Term Will Result In A Mystery Stall At High Temps Because The Apex Seals Will Lose Compression That Will Be Very Difficult To Diagnose And Will Require Engine Replacement
What? Where Did You Get This Information?

Well, we have 8,000 on both of the new engines. We have run them hard, based on service manager's recommendation, and they seem to thrive on it. We ran my wife's to 1,000 miles hard, to Atlanta and back, and it seems to run better every time we pound out some fast miles.

Ran mine to Miami and back.... mostly above 5 grand... and I got 20.47 mpg. Strange....

Who is RX99 ?

How are you liking your new engine? Any problems with it? I wonder how long it takes for them (once they have the engine in stock) to change it out...

Engine is fine - I think it took them a day to swap it out.

What? Where Did You Get This Information?


I can't believe you don't know who RX99 is...

:wallbash:

This is the first time I've had a problem with the car. It's a pretty hot day today (>90), and I was driving home. Car was warm, A/C on, about 30 minutes into my trip. I took off from a light (not real hard), and heard what almost sounded like a misfire or predetonation. I drove a few miles farther and was in my subdivision going up a hill, when I hear what almost sounded like a grating noise at around 4000 RPM. I turned the corner and came to a stop sign, and when I stopped, it died and won't start again. Seems like it's flooded. I'm going to let is sit for a while and cool off, and I'll try to start it again. Any idea what this might be?

Ironically, I called the dealership today to schedule an appointment for plug/filter change. I told him I'd also like them to fix my idle vibration problem, which I've been complaining about since 18K miles (I have 37K now). He asked what octane gas I've been using. I've used either 89 or 93 octane, but almost always 89. He said that will cause carbon build-up, rough idle, and stalls. The car has run well since I've had it, and I've never had it stall on me unitl today. I routinely take it to 9K rpm to avoid any carbon build-up problem. Is it possible that this problem is related to gas? Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere, but the unsophisticated search engine didn't help.

I'm going out to check on it, but will look for advice when I get back. Thanks, all.

Hey bud,
I have the same problem Just dropped it off 2 days ago AGAIN! They are sending the PCM to California to get reprogrammed.

I can't believe you don't know who RX99 is...

:wallbash:
I have trusted RX99's information for years.

...Seriously.

yesterday my car stalled and died at in the highway while i was doing 90mph on 4th. First came a ping sound from exhaust and then check engine light along with no throttle after 3000rpm and eventually no throttle at all. I got help from a friend who reset my ecu by disconnecting the battery and its was fine. Then again the CEL came on today when my wife tried to back up the car and stalled a few times(NOT GOOD AT MT) and same thing repeated. I reset again and it was gone. its about 90 degres outside and i never had any problem like this in all my 18000 miles. I am thinking if this is a pure coninsidence or its the same thing happening again? should the car act like this if some one stalls it 3-4 times?

I'm having similar issues, threw codes P0172 and P2097, CEL is still on, I'll probably try to reset it. The car stalled twice on my wife, I'm trying to figure out where the source might be. I'm hoping my cat only died.

Allow me to share my experience. This summer has been insanely hot; afternoon temps have been over 100 routinely, with high humidity. On a few occasions in these conditions, I've had power loss that manifests itself on even slightly positive slopes (I'm talking about VERY slight grades!) that has compelled me to shift to 5th and do 55 or so until the road levels out. I have not heard unusual sounds.

Last Tuesday, I I was driving my 8 on the highway on my way to go biking after work when this began again. I kept going, then had to stop at a light. Before I knew it, the engine died and I had to get towed.

The Mazda service tech was able to get it to the point of having some trouble and I was told that they will be replacing the engine!!!

My question to you guys: this thread is a couple of years old, so Mazda has had lots of time to work on this problem. Is there any reason to worry that I'm just going to have this problem again with the new engine? My warranty ends very soon.

Kerisman,

Sorry to hear you lost an engine. We have had rebuilts put in both cars and then had to have the front seal replaced on BOTH cars. Seal failure happened at 75k on my wife's and 78K on mine. Dealer paid all costs.

When the engine failed the first time in the Blue 8, we did not note a slight power loss. She was on an interstate exit ramp and it just shut down. In the Black 8, I notices that starting and idling had gotten difficult. I asked the dealer to test it and they replaced the engine.

Dave

Hello everyone. Just joined the group after I had my 2004 RX8 (25,000 miles) towed to the dealer last night. My problem sounds a little different than the others. We had been driving for 3 hours in 100+ degree weather with the cruise set on 75 when the engine just died. We coasted to the shoulder and tried to restart but it wouldn't even try to fire. The engine would still crank and there was no unusual smells. Talked to the dealer today and they said there were broken coils. I haven't ever had a rotary before but is there more than one coil? After hearing some of the horror stories I don't want to take any chances. My warrantee expires in less than 2 weeks.

Pophoh,
Yest, there are 4 coils. Also, the warrantee has been extended 1yr on powertrain. Others outside of that extension for milage have had their's replaced by Mazda as well. So, you've got some time yet.

Mike

Looks like I have a lot to learn about this rotary. Do the coils serve the same purpose as in a piston engine? What would cause multiple coils to go bad at the same time? Does anyone know where to get a good service manual on the RX8?
Thanks for your help.

Pophoh,
Coils serve same function. Problem is that Mazda located them in a hot area of the engine and then to a metal plate. They ground themselves to the plate and burn. Some have shown pictures of the bottom of the coils and you can see a discoloration/burn mark.

I bought a CD version on Ebay for a couple of bucks. Its OK, not like a Bentley manual I have for my Triumph, but then I am not doing a ground up restoration either. Look around this sight, you can find some unscroupulus versions as well, but you didn't hear it from me.

I just picked up my revived 8 with its replacement engine. A conversation with the tech revealed a lot. Many questions answered...

* Carbon build-up on rotors is the heart of the problem. '04 models had the most problems. '06 engines have chrome-plated rotors that are less likely to accumulate carbon build-up. Drivers who are less aggressive tend to have the problem the most (they don't blow out the carbon). The automatic versions of this car are seen to have this problem especially often. Drive your 8 like the sports car that it is -- that's what it's built for.

* The replacement engine I received (originally called a "new" engine by customer service manager) is actually remanufactured, assembled in Japan. It has the chrome-plated rotors. This is probably what others receive when they have this service.

* My warranty period was not affected by this service, but recall #4206 may have extended the powertrain warranty...still need to check the letter sent by Mazda when I had this done.

I hope this info will be helpful to others. I'm still trying to decide whether it's wise (for me personally) to own the car beyond warranty period.

I just picked up my revived 8 with its replacement engine. A conversation with the tech revealed a lot. Many questions answered...

* Carbon build-up on rotors is the heart of the problem. '04 models had the most problems. '06 engines have chrome-plated rotors that are less likely to accumulate carbon build-up. Drivers who are less aggressive tend to have the problem the most (they don't blow out the carbon). The automatic versions of this car are seen to have this problem especially often. Drive your 8 like the sports car that it is -- that's what it's built for.

* The replacement engine I received (originally called a "new" engine by customer service manager) is actually remanufactured, assembled in Japan. It has the chrome-plated rotors. This is probably what others receive when they have this service.

* My warranty period was not affected by this service, but recall #4206 may have extended the powertrain warranty...still need to check the letter sent by Mazda when I had this done.

I hope this info will be helpful to others. I'm still trying to decide whether it's wise (for me personally) to own the car beyond warranty period.

it would be helpful if it was correct. but it is not..


beers :beer:

it would be helpful if it was correct. but it is not..


beers :beer:

Now *that* was a helpful post! Thanks, man. :Eyecrazy:

Now *that* was a helpful post! Thanks, man. :Eyecrazy:


you are welcome.. the answer was in the thread.. did you read it???


beers :beer:

Sounds like BS. If you're experiencing rough idle and power loss there are TSBs for this like engine mounts, bad coils, low engine compression.