anybody have news if mazda had release the 8 from vancouver(port) and if they have put on rail?????? cause U.S seem to see a lot of 8 on the delivery truck today.

Sigh! I just came back from a dealer. They still don't know Jack. I talked to the general manager of the dealership and he seemed dejected by the near total lack of info coming from Mazda Canada (if he was putting me on he should be an actor). The general sales manager wasn't even sure that they were in port yet, let alone on rails). Heck, all they know is that they are getting 1 car this month, they don't know the colour, model, nothing.They're getting 2 more next month then 1 the following month.:eek: FWIW, they are a small dealer so others may be getting more.

Mac, which dealer was that?

mazda canada suck they no noting about nothing the u.s getting they cars at the moment .i know they was in vancouver last week and now we dont know nothing it pissing me off.that im the only one like that:mad:

Nope, there are certainly others that feel that way. I had my rant last week....

My dealer has told me that their system doesn't get updated until tomorrow (until then it has the same data as friday) which is why I didn't call today for an update. Hopefully something will have changed tomorrow, since it will have been three full weeks since my car arrived in port.

Of course the dealer also told me last week that the updates they get for car status are manually entered (RF barcode readers are too high tech for the Canadian auto industry?:D ) so they may be several days behind, if they get entered at all. Apparently cars have arrived in Halifax before while still being listed as "in port" in B.C.

Which means even the little bit of info we can get is unreliable.....

Originally posted by funksoulbrother
Mac, which dealer was that?

It was Argus Mazda. As I said in another post, these guys are the closest but being across the bridge means I can only go there outside peak hours. I went around 7 PM, all the sales people were busy so I went into the GM's office:D . I have to say that they may not know anything about RX-8's but they didn't try to BS. It was all very low key, none of the give me $$$$ down and I will talk to you. They simply said that as soon as the first 1 arrives, they will call. We'll see if they deliver.

BTW, some of them can speak English;) Luckily I'm French, so it makes it a lot easier.

-edit- I'll probably buy from these guys, it just seems wrong to give my money to the others. I'll do a background check on the dealership to see how they stack up service wise.

Mac, do let us know. I have visited every Mazda dealer in Ottawa. I was going to visit the one in Cornwall and the one in Hull.

I believe there is one in Pembroke? and if I am not mistaken Hawksbury.

Carling Mazda was very helpfull on my 2 visits to look at the Mazda 6. No pressure. I dealt with the GM though

My FD RX-7 originally came from Hawkesbury.

Pembroke Mazda apparently has the OEM best parts pricing - my FD buddies get good deals there.

Bhah. Still showing in port. 3 weeks and counting.

ive just call mazda canada today and the guy told me that they gone release all the cars a the same time so that meen the 3r week of july .if my memorie good it take 7 days to vancouver to montreal so that meen by the end of july this is sh............
:mad: :mad:

Originally posted by shaft
ive just call mazda canada today and the guy told me that they gone release all the cars a the same time so that meen the 3r week of july .if my memorie good it take 7 days to vancouver to montreal so that meen by the end of july this is sh............
:mad: :mad:

I called Mazda Canada today as well, the customer info 1-800 number from their website and the girl told me that they were released from port and that they would be showing up in dealerships by the end of the week and that no simultanious launch was scheduled.

My next call was to a dealer who laughed and said that they don't believe anything that "Cor-por-ate" has to, say and until they have shipments arriving they arn't going to hold their breath.

For some reason I believe the dealer.
Same day, two calls, two entirely different stories.

Yup, what funksoulbrother says pretty much sums it up for Mazda. :(

With the launch of the TSX's earlier this year, Acura managed to stick pretty close to their schedules. The dealers were reasonably well informed and they were 3 days late delivering from the dates release the previous month. Mazda, you can learn from these guys.

My dealer actually called me today. He'd been talking to Mazda Canada, who is now saying they'll be on rail by next week. They didn't say when next week, of course.

Looks like it'll be 4 full weeks in port .....

And I might get two whole months of driving before I put it away for the winter. BTW, anyone know anything about wintering rotaries?

MAZDA IS FULL OF SHIT!!!! AN EXPERIENCE LIKE THIS CAN CAUSE POSSIBLE CONSUMERS TO LOOK ELSEWHERE. I AM ABOUT TO FOLD!!!!!

I just called Mazda Canada.
After 15 minutes on hold:

I spoke to a nice lady name "Jamie"
She is in their public relations department.
She says that they do not have access to delivery information, and that the only ones who do are the District Sales Managers (DSMs)
We should contact our dealers who can ask their regional DSM for the delivery info.

I asked her is they are doing something like a simultaneous release, and she tells me that :
"Yes, we are trying to get at leastone car in all the dealers first"

I asked her when they expect the release and she said:
"We are telling people that we are releasing the RX-8 in mid to late July"

And she promised to call my dealer and tell him to contact his DSM to get the answer to my question.
She also promised to call me back today or tomorrow, and she gave me her extension #, which I will not share as it would be impolite..

BTW, I suggest that Canadians who have cars on order call them at 800-463-4680 and ask where their cars are.

I was over at the dealership last night (I'd been planning on paying that bill when my RX-8 came in :( ) and was talking to my dealer, and the owner of the dealership (I think). They seemed very sure that the first cars would be on rail monday or tuesday.
They also said that part of the reason they were delayed was to make sure there was a car for every dealership.

I just got off the phone with Mazda Canada (1-800-263-4680). They assured me that the cars had shipped and would be at dealers next week.

I must say, that with what I read hear, I find it hard to believe them.

Another Ottawa member? How many is that now, 5? Maybe we should ask the administrator to make a separate forum so us all.

:D

I just talked to the dealer as well, who have no real new info.
Apparently phoning the District Sales Manager and asking is not something they want to do.

They claim that my car will be here Any Day Now (tm)

One note on this whole thing:
If you are west of Ontario apparently they truck the cars.
East of there they go on rail cars.

Here is the bad part of that:
IF they decide to hold until all the dealers get one, we could be waiting up to 3 more weeks.
Rail delivery to the Eastern Maritimes runs up to 3 weeks normally.
Truck to Alberta takes one day.
Some of us could be waiting an extra 3 weeks for the Eastern cars to be delivered.

yuck!

Actually, my dealer has consistantly said shipping by rail would be 8 to 10 days, and you can't get much more east of here, at least by rail.

Just got back from my vacation on the East Coast hoping I would get to see my Lightning Yellow RX-8. It was a sad day. I called my dealer today and requested he contact the District Sales Manager and find out the whereabouts of our cars. I just got the message back from my dealer. He did contact the district sales manager. He assures him that the RX-8s will be leaving port either on Monday or Tuesday, he could not guarantee the day. The dealer advises that it takes about two weeks from port to the actual dealership. This includes the cars transferring at the Markham yard.

My salesperson just called and said his staus report shows my car at port. I said I've heard that the report is usually way behind real time. He agreed. He said when a car shows on rail, quite often it arrives the next day!

Let's hope our cars are on rail, and we're in them in the next week or two!

I paid my deposit on a Titanitum GT the day after Canada pricing was announced. At the time Mazda Canada told my dealer (Penney Mazda in St. John's) to expect June 1 delivery at St. John's. To date, I am the only owner in Nfld (other than dealership owner who will drive a demo).

On May 25 I called to make sure all was well, was told that the production run of vehicles that were supposed to come to N. America were, in fact, sold in Japan. Now the RX-8s were to arrive in port at Vancouver on June 1, 12-14 days by rail to Halifax, another week to St. John's. Only at that point would the cars be "released" to the dealers across Canada.

Called on June 17 - bad news. Cars delayed in Japan, now scheduled to arrive in Vancouver on June 30. Expected in Halifax July 17. I make arrangements to take delivery in Halifax (maybe that will cut 10 days off Canada release date as I am the only one waiting for a car in St. John's???). Confirmed on July 2 that cars arrived in Vancouver on June 30 - latest delivery info is solid.

Called yesterday (I'm ready to purchase my airfare to Halifax, figure I'd better check first) - cars are STILL sitting in Vancouver!!!! I'm freaking out! Mazda Canada says there were 2 "minor glitches" discovered with the cars. Mazda Canada's strict QC program apparently requires that the "glitches" be fixed before the cars leave Vancouver. Apparently, this same QC procedure also requires that Mazda not tell any of their paying customers that the delivery date of their car has slipped by ANOTHER MONTH!

Latest info says that the cars will leave Vancouver tomorrow (July 16) for cross-Canada delivery.

I don't know about the rest of you who paid your money months ago - but Canadian summers are too damn short for Mazda to be jerking us around so much. I still look forward to my RX-8 - IMHO, the most unique stock sports car on the market today - but I have to say, Mazda is sure doing their best to take the fun out of the entire experience.

Sorry to belly ache so much. This is all the info I've received so far. I've given up hope on seeing my RX-8 this summer. Maybe it will arrive just in time to take a picture to post on the forum, wrap it in a tarp and shut the garage door for the winter.

Barry

I'll be driving mine full time, although summer driving is MUCH more fun.

I e-mailed 2 dealers, and have yet to receive a reply, LOVELY service!

Originally posted by bgparsons3
I don't know about the rest of you who paid your money months ago - but Canadian summers are too damn short for Mazda to be jerking us around so much. I still look forward to my RX-8 - IMHO, the most unique stock sports car on the market today - but I have to say, Mazda is sure doing their best to take the fun out of the entire experience.


I hear ya. My original stance was if the car didn't arrive by June I wouldn't bother getting one in '03 because 1/2 of the nice dirinvg weather is gone. I've now set a personal deadline of mid August. After that, there's only Sep and Oct before the lousy weather comes and since I'm already in a leased vehicle may as well wait until spring...

4 weeks and counting.

Today is exactly 4 weeks since the first shipment (which included my car) arrived in B.C. And it is still listed in port.

But of course Mazda Canada says it will be released "any day now". Definitely by the end of the week. Yep. Sure. Everyone believe them, this time?

They sure are trying hard to make sure it's August before my car shows up.

At least something did come in. The glossy accessories brochures are apparently available now.

The Western region cars are all released and either on route or waiting to be loaded on a truck. I don't have access to the eastern info, but I can't see any reason why they won't be transported this week.

So they ship the Atlantic and Quebec cars from Japan first, as they have to travel by rail for one to two weeks.
Then they hold them until all the other first allocation cars have arrived.
Then they release the Western cars first.

Brilliant planning....

Are Ontario deliveries in the "Western" cars?

There are already RX8s at the compound in Scarborough... this was confirmed by my dealer who saw them... my dealer has been told two cars are coming on Friday.... that's this Friday, the 18th...

I talked with a dealer and Mazda Canada today.
Apparently they first shipped the cars going by rail to the maritimes, then Quebece and Ontario, and are trucking for the west last.
Then, once all cars are at various compounds, they will be released to dealers across Canada simultaneously for the same release date.

Looking more and more like either the end of this week, or early next. My money is on early next week by what I heard.

I also heard they lost a week or so dealing with an emmissions glitch, but that is fixed by now.

Have pity though. If you are one of the people getting a car in this batch , cool.
If not, things look gloomy.

There is apparently one more small batch on the way, being cars with automatic, moon roofs and GPS systems.
After that, perhaps one more small batch for the rest of the year.

I think it is likely they don't want to deliver too many to Canada in the winter as it is quite likely they will languish at dealers if they do.

They do the same thing with the Miata. They only get a few over the winter as they don't sell well and you can't really take them for a test drive given that they have the summer tires on them.

Should get a good many available in the spring though.

Yes, there WILL be cars available to buy April of Next year, Mazda won't just STOP production or shipments. If you want one in Jan you could probably order one and get one. "Sports" cars sell like hotcakes in April.

I'll be hopefully taking a June delivery or May so I'll probably order in Jan just to be sure!

I ordered my Miata at the end of Nov and got it end of Dec/beginning of Jan. right after a snow storm. Drove it home on summer tires. Good thing I learned to drive in the GWN as the guys at the dealership had trouble driving it into the garage. They had 3 guys pushing it.

Guys,
see this http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6731

I got an email this morning from somebody I know at a local dealership, (Mills Mazda in Truro,NS. Talk to Brad Mills. Great guy, talk to him for GREAT prices any of your accessory needs... and tell him Dave Earle (me) sent you :) ).

Anyway, he got confirmation from Mazda that his RX-8 (and we have to assume the other Atlantic RX-8s) left Vancouver via rail this morning. Normally takes 10-14 days for the cars to reach Halifax autoport from there.

A buddy of mine's father work for CN, so I'm gonna have him keep an eye out. According to him once they get loaded in Toronto, it's 2 days to Halifax.

I've got a deal worked out with the dealership I got my car from here in Halifax to go see it when they get notification that it's in port here. Anybody else semi-local want me to look for their's too?

Originally posted by canzoomer

Have pity though. If you are one of the people getting a car in this batch , cool.
If not, things look gloomy.

There is apparently one more small batch on the way, being cars with automatic, moon roofs and GPS systems.
After that, perhaps one more small batch for the rest of the year.


Does this mean that this first large batch does NOT contain cars with moonroofs and NAV systems? I ordered one with both moonroof & NAV. My dealer is completely clueless as to the status of my car. This is starting to get silly ... why does someone like ZoomZoom who ordered his car over a year ago not get his in the first batch? Man, there are many times I really enjoy living in Canada, and there are other times I wish I lived in the US.

My car was confirmed into Vancouver with the first batch (I have a VIN and everything) and I have a moonroof, so that is not the case.

I noticed your car is red though. That may be the problem. My dealership had two pre-ordered cars, my Blue and another persons Red.
My car was confirmed, but the red one is being delayed for an unknown time. What they were told (but take that for what it's worth) but Mazda took the first batch of red cars and allocated them for magazine test/demo cars, so delivery of red customer cars was pushed back.

No idea if that's true, but I do know that my dealership has confirmation of my car, and no trace of the red one the ordered at the same time.
The silver one for the dealership in the next town over is confirmed as well.

Originally posted by Redshift
I've got a deal worked out with the dealership I got my car from here in Halifax to go see it when they get notification that it's in port here. Anybody else semi-local want me to look for their's too?

Most definitly.
My car should be going over to PEI so I imagine it's going through with yours,

Serial 100907

thanks

Originally posted by canzoomer

There is apparently one more small batch on the way, being cars with automatic, moon roofs and GPS systems.
After that, perhaps one more small batch for the rest of the year.
do.

If what you say is true, my 8 might be within that small batch!:) I don't recall that many people ordering the Automatic, and I AM the only one with the Auto at my dealership!:eek: Any idea when this small batch is gonna arrive?

Originally posted by Danomite


Does this mean that this first large batch does NOT contain cars with moonroofs and NAV systems?

No - I know of at least one GT with roof and Nav that is on the truck to a dealer.

We've discussed this before, but it seems that Mazda Canada's "order" system is very primitive... you can put down a deposit on a car with specific options and colour at the dealer, but Mazda Canada doesn't really care - it seems they allocate cars to the dealers at random, and if one happens to be allocated to your dealer that matches your specs you're in luck. Otherwise, you might be offered whatever comes in when your turn on the deposit list comes up. Nobody has really ordered an RX-8 in Canada in the same way that they did in the US.

Yes, it is incredibly frustrating!!! :mad:

Regards,
Gordon

Strange. Either the allocation of cars is not that random, or I got very lucky, because both cars my dealer has been allocated by Mazda Canada match my and the other buyer's specs to the letter.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


No - I know of at least one GT with roof and Nav that is on the truck to a dealer.

We've discussed this before, but it seems that Mazda Canada's "order" system is very primitive... you can put down a deposit on a car with specific options and colour at the dealer, but Mazda Canada doesn't really care - it seems they allocate cars to the dealers at random, and if one happens to be allocated to your dealer that matches your specs you're in luck. Otherwise, you might be offered whatever comes in when your turn on the deposit list comes up. Nobody has really ordered an RX-8 in Canada in the same way that they did in the US.

Yes, it is incredibly frustrating!!! :mad:

Regards,
Gordon

This is more than mildly annoying. Okay, let's say this is the case. Here's an interesting scenario for you. Let's assume that most Canadian dealerships are completely clueless about their allocations (ie, number, trim level, options). So, let's say your dealer does not get a car that matches your order, so do you:

(1) Take this car, regardless of what you ordered?
(2) Turn it down?

In the case of (1), you could take the car and a week later, your dealership could get a car that either matches your order exactly or is very very close to your order (ie, closer than the car you took). This could cause quite a bit of disappointment. :(

In the case of (2), you could turn it down, and find out the dealer will not have another car coming this year. So you are basically screwed. This would suck royally. :mad:

Friggin' Mazda Can ....

(3) I'll be expecting my dealer to trade with another for an RX-8 identical to my specs...

Originally posted by FritzMan
(3) I'll be expecting my dealer to trade with another for an RX-8 identical to my specs...

Normally, yeah - but with the extremely limited production RX-8, who are they going to trade with? Every other dealer has a waiting list for any cars they get in - they won't have any cars to trade, and since dealer trades incur some costs (paperwork and the physical transport of the cars between dealers), if they have ready buyers for every car right now then I doubt that dealer trades are going to be an option this year. :mad:

Regards,
Gordon

Apparently there's quite a few unallocated RX-8 coming in the next couple of months to Ottawa dealerships. Should Bank Street choose to not absorb some paperwork cost (really, being such a negligable percentage of the overal cost of the car - they'd better not try that pathetic excuse!), I'll be happy to take my 40K to another dealer. I'm not that loyal to a dealership. I would imagine that statement will motivate them to get on the phone.

They will attempt to trade, no doubt about it.

LIke I have said many times, the cars are NOT all sold there are MANY available. SOLD means they are doing to dealers, not that people ordered them.

Everything has been a little over hyped. The dealer I called knew he was getting a Titanium GT with Moon and NAV in the next few days. He knows what he is getting, I told him I wanted that but no NAV, he said he would trade with another dealer, if one was available.

Guys this car will have MORE production than the Acura TSX and you don't see those in short supply!

Wow, no Canadian cars yet? Is Australia going to beat Canada in getting it's first car?

---jps

Originally posted by Wing
They will attempt to trade, no doubt about it.

LIke I have said many times, the cars are NOT all sold there are MANY available. SOLD means they are doing to dealers, not that people ordered them.

Everything has been a little over hyped. The dealer I called knew he was getting a Titanium GT with Moon and NAV in the next few days. He knows what he is getting, I told him I wanted that but no NAV, he said he would trade with another dealer, if one was available.

Guys this car will have MORE production than the Acura TSX and you don't see those in short supply!

We seem to have entirely different sources of information! Re the TSX - well, Mazda Canada has said many times that only 700 RX-8s are coming to Canada this year, period. Any dealer I've talked to has repeated that message. So there's going to be fewer than 700 TSXs this year? ;)

As for cars available - I've spoken to EVERY one of the 16 Mazda dealer in the three prairie provinces - there are exactly 2 cars of the first batch that aren't sold to customers. Beyond this first batch received since June, being shipped to dealers right now - none of them know if or when they will receive more RX-8s, much less what colour or package they will be. In the cities (Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Regina) the dealers all have deposit lists for cars ranging from 4 to 20 long - they will not be getting enough cars to supply all the orders they have taken deposits on. That's what the dealers here are telling their potential customers.

So just where are all these available RX-8s? If you know of a Titanium Gray GT, 6 spd, roof that is on it's way to a dealer now and is available - let me know which dealer it's going to, and I'm all over it!

Sputnik, I'd expect the first Canadian delivery to be today or tomorrow - but there doesn't seem to be that many Canucks on this forum, so we might not hear about it. :(

Regards,
Gordon

From what i've heard, the release date was delayed until the cars reach the Eastern dealers! I think your best bet for delivery is next week!

Originally posted by LiQuiDLaM
From what i've heard, the release date was delayed until the cars reach the Eastern dealers! I think your best bet for delivery is next week!

what a load of crap... hey Frankie, when're you guys getting yours???

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


Sputnik, I'd expect the first Canadian delivery to be today or tomorrow - but there doesn't seem to be that many Canucks on this forum, so we might not hear about it. :(



I know Bank Street Mazda delivered a black GT production version to Mazda Canada president's son in Kanata (just outside of Ottawa) approximately 2 weeks ago. Also, I think there's several production versions running around Toronto. Clearly, a few RX-8s were rushed through Mazda port inspection. Hopefully, we commoners will get ours starting tomorrow (Calgary?) and into next week.

Gordon, Mazda of Hawkesbury in Ontario is getting a Tit GT with moon and Nav.

He said he was getting 4 cars in the first shipment and 1 of them was the GT. He checked into, as I asked if he was getting one. Although I can't afford NAV so I declined the car.

He also stated he will be getting at least 7 more cars following the 4. Bank St. mazda has 5 cars I believe.

Most of the cars are probably coming to Ontario. I happen to Live in Ottawa, right between Toronto and Montreal, which gives me probably one of the biggest car "pools" (no pun intended).

The problem is the RX8 is a summer car, they aren't going to stop making them, it is just that they don't sell sports cars in December.

As you have probably noticed many people have been saying "If it's not here by August, I'll wait till spring" And I don't blame them. This is what Mazda is believing too.

I think we will get more if required, I could be wrong. But from the information I got from 1 dealer, I am not worried about getting what car I want. In May 2004 (which of course is a new year).

The other conflicting info I have received was on here, stating that if you don't get one this sept, your going to have to wait until next sept! I find that hard to believe that mazda would not ship anymore 2004's next april - sept and then release the 2005's.

I can hope they will be 2004.5's with some minor fixes if need be :).

Well, I was VERY VERY lucky....

My car (Titanium Grey, roof and NAV) could not be gauranteed to me by my dealer... but Ron Jeremy came out to our Wing Night on Monday, and said he had just talked to Performance Mazda in Ottawa, and that they had MY EXACT CAR COMING, AND THEY HAD NO BUYER FOR IT!!!!!!!!! Unbelievable: why would Mazda Canada not be able to make these sorts of switches???? Probably because everybody there works under the archaic system from 30 years ago where uneducated customers were forced to take what they could get: and MazCan thinks this is still an OK way to treat people....

Anyway, the bottom line is that my dealer called their dealer right away, and arranged a dealer trade: a Titanium Grey car with moonroof NO NAV, for the car I wanted... that car should be here by September...

So, dealer trades can be done, but I guess the circumstances have to be right... and as for the guy who said that the cars his dealer was getting matched customer orders: just dumb luck. Mazda Canada made really no effort to fill the dealer requests...

i went back to the dealer the other day and asked them ,"When are we getting our car?"

and this was their response,"At this time, it's hard for us to give you the specific time-frame, BUT since you are the first person to order the automatic, the first automatic that comes in should be yours!" or something like dat!

oh and they kept telling me that their dealer is one of the largest in Vancouver yada, 30 years experience blah, so their chances of getting RX-8s is supposedly better! But they also told me they are only getting two RX-8s from the first batch!

73JPS, HOLD UP!

Performance Mazda is getting a Tit GT with Moon NO Nav? That's what I want!

FritzMan, a BLACK GT in Kanata? Man what is this guy's name? I'll drive around Kanata till I find the damn thing!

I bet he lives in Kanata Lakes!

Originally posted by LiQuiDLaM
From what i've heard, the release date was delayed until the cars reach the Eastern dealers! I think your best bet for delivery is next week!

I'm on the east coast, and I really hope they don't do this. Since we know they've got cars in lots in Calgary, why not release them? I know I won't be offended.

If they do delay them, the cars for Nova Scotia are listed by CN as arriving in Dartmouth on the 23rd. If they actually arrive then it would probably be the 24th before they get to the dealers.

Just got off the phone with Bank Street. They've been told by Mazda Canada that at least 1 car will be on their lot July 23rd, next Wednesday. That's quite an accomplishment for them to be actually stating a date, so hopefully there's some merit to it. They're still not 100% sure of the specs. Apparently Mazda figured a lot of the pre-orders were bogus (really? ;)) . So cars are being allocated somewhat randomly. Apparently the smaller dealerships in the boonies don't want 40K cars sitting on their lots, so finding a specific model shouldn't be too hard. So yes, Performance should be getting a Tit GT but I'd be surpised that they're guaranteed one in their first delivery.

Wing, they wouldn't state his name, but they said it was only on their lot for 20 minutes before being picked up. 50/50 split on approval of the tan interior. Bill thought the black color hid the car's lines too much - exactly the reason why I didn't sepc that color. They couldn't find the spare tire and were relieved when I informed them that it was an option. Size wise, it's smaller than a Mazda 6 he said but interior room was deceptively large.

Guess I'll keep my camera in my pocket! If I see it, I'll be sure to follow it, if I can keep up!

Good to hear a date, July 23rd..... now do I have anything to do that day?

Got mine today.

really? sweet, i'm gonna check to see if any 8s rolled out here in Van tomorrow!

Woohoo, they are coming!