Disclaimer: I know that looks are subjective and that this thread might get ugly, but keep in mind that it's just my opinion...

I like what Subaru is doing with the performance of their cars, the AWD, and how they have awesome reliability...I just can't get over the fact that they all look "boxy", "boring", "non-aerodynamic", etc. And they all even look very similar.

Almost every other company I can think of has at least one car that looks "cool" (for lack of a better word) and/or stands out from its other cars:
- Ford has the Mustang and GT
- Mazda has the RX-8 and Miata
- Honda has the S2000
- Toyota has the MR-2 Spyder
- Nissan has the 350Z
- Chrysler has the Crossfire
- Chevrolet has the Corvette
- Dodge has the Viper
- Volvo even has the C70
- I won't get into the higher-end auto makers...


Anyways, why can't they make something that looks good? I realize they sell well the way they are now, but paaleeeease Subaru....! :)

Call me crazy, or call the issue subjective but, I kinda like the way the plain WRX (sans rear spoiler) looks like:
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50503&stc=1 ;)
And let's don't talk about an STi sans-spoiler.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50504&stc=1

Yeah, but put it next to a Legacy and they look *very similar*... ;)

http://www.engine-power.com/img/specs/subaru_legacy_gt_06.jpg

I'm hoping they'll eventually put out a car that actually stands out from the rest of the fleet...

I don't think the Legacy looks the least bit like the Impreza. In fact there is quite a bit of diversity in the Subaru lineup, some in a good way some in a bad way (read Baja). Subaru has always made cars that stand out and will continue to do so, if you think they're ugly then so be it, but one thing you can never accuse Subaru of being is ordinary.

^ I'm referring to Subaru's not standing out *from each other*, not from other cars.

Sorry if I'm not making this clear...sometimes I suck at explaining things..

I guess here's a way to look at it:

Someone might see an RX-8 and think "wow...is that the new Porsche!?". Someone might see a Viper and think "wow...is that the new Lamborghini!?".

Nobody would ever see a WRX and think "wow...is that the new [insert non-Subaru car here]"...it's quite obvious that the WRX is a Subaru, because it looks like all Subarus.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~superpom/oldsite/images/flyier.jpg :eek:

historical precedent?

the Legacy GT is the understated hotness

are they going to bring an STi version over??? (B4????)

I don't think the Legacy is a bad looking car, either.

But overall I do think the Subaru line-up is a bit bland. But I don't think Toyota's is any better. Actually, I think Toyota's is worse.

I think Subaru has done a good job of identifying a corporate identity which works for them. I am glad they are what they are. I thought the Legacy was also a nice design both inside and out.

I think they just need to bring back a new version of the 2 door P1 though it is more of a styling exercise since the 4 door does not weigh much more.

I like the looks of the Legacy and while the WRX isn't swoopy--I like its looks. They actually are revising the front end of the WRX to mimic the LEgacy/B9 Tribeca.

I think Subaru has done a good job of identifying a corporate identity which works for them. I am glad they are what they are.
That's a good point...I guess whatever they're doing IS working, and they know it, so there's no point in making any radical changes.

I'd still love to see the performance of an STI with a hot exterior and still an affordable price...

I like the looks of the Legacy and while the WRX isn't swoopy--I like its looks. They actually are revising the front end of the WRX to mimic the LEgacy/B9 Tribeca.

No one really knows what is going to become of the Impreza, though it will probably have the new grill from the Tribeca. Subaru is doing an incredible job keeping it under tight wraps, and the rumors and speculation is flying.

That's a good point...I guess whatever they're doing IS working, and they know it, so there's no point in making any radical changes.

I'd still love to see the performance of an STI with a hot exterior and still an affordable price...


"A completely new kind of supercar, based on tweaked Subaru Impreza components but barely bigger than a Ford Fiesta, is under development at Prodrive, the Banbury-based engineering group which builds both Subaru’s world rally cars and Aston Martin’s DBR9 GT racing car.

The 160mph hard-top two-seater, code-named P2, has no equivalent among current production cars, though it bears a superficial resemblance to rally-bred supercars of the past such as the Lancia Stratos and Ford RS200. Like these cars it is potentially extremely fast and agile, but unlike them it’s designed to use a far higher percentage of production components, and to be built to a ‘notional’ purchase price of around £40k.

The engine is a front-mounted version of Subaru’s familiar 2.0 litre turbocharged flat-four engine with well over 300bhp on tap. The car will weigh only about 1000kg, so performance should match a Ferrari F430’s or Lamborghini Gallardo’s. However, the Prodrive coupé’s small size, short overhangs, optimal weight distribution (from elements such as side-mounted radiators) – plus its Subaru-sourced 4x4 drive train – should make it considerably more agile than conventional mid-engined supercars. The suspension, brakes and steering are also sourced from the Impreza.

The project is the brainchild of David Richards, Prodrive’s founder and chairman, who describes the car as a technology demonstrator, intended to showcase his firm’s automotive design and engineering talents. The coupé will feature new stability and turbo anti-lag systems, both devised at Prodrive. Though the project is only three months old, the car is scheduled to be finished by the end of the year, because Richards wants to demonstrate Prodrive’s speed and flexibility at realising projects.

There is no production plan at present, and Prodrive hasn’t arrived at an official name for the project. But it seems unlikely that Subaru – with whom Prodrive has a long and fruitful relationship – will be unmoved by news of an enticing project which uses so many of its components in a revolutionary way. Sources at Prodrive are keeping tight-lipped about Subaru’s involvement, but an early viewing of the coupé project by the Japanese company’s bosses seems more than likely."

Prodrive also built Ferrari's Le Mans cars, so I have little doubt they could pull this off an possibly build a supercar killer should they desire. Should it happen it may be sold through Subaru dealers since Subaru has sold various prodrive models through their dealers in the past.

sti ,wrx there just plain ugly they spend most of there time doing the engine i guess :p and to know i almost bought an sti boy what was i thinking












I remember now 300 hp :(

I don't believe Subaru has ever had a true sports car in their line up (at least not in the last 10 years), the STi evolved and developed out of years & years of rally racing. So sports car styling doesn't seem to be a priority for them.

For ~$30K, really cool sports car looks and top notch performance seem to be kind of mutually exclusive. On the one hand, there are cars like the STi and EVO that offer killer performance, but in a plain jane econo-box shell. On the other hand there are cars like the RX-8, G35 and Z that are very nice on eyes, but a notch down in the performance category.

A car with the performance of the STi, looks of the RX-8, and the practical back seat/trunk of both, would be the king of the hill in its class. (That's why I'm still waiting for that MS RX-8.)

Actually, I think the new Mustang is probably the closest in matching great looks and performance at a less than $30K price. The Shelby GT500 concept looks to be something else, I can just imagine one in white with blue stripes. I love the 60's.

I understand the context as to which the Ford Fiesta comparison was used. However, when describing a supercar, should the Fiesta be mentioned? ;)

I understand the context as to which the Ford Fiesta comparison was used. However, when describing a supercar, should the Fiesta be mentioned? ;)

Yeah I thought that was odd, use the Elise for a size comparison, but a Fiesta???

"A completely new kind of supercar, based on tweaked Subaru Impreza components but barely bigger than a Ford Fiesta, is under development at Prodrive, the Banbury-based engineering group which builds both Subaru’s world rally cars and Aston Martin’s DBR9 GT racing car.

The 160mph hard-top two-seater, code-named P2, has no equivalent among current production cars, though it bears a superficial resemblance to rally-bred supercars of the past such as the Lancia Stratos and Ford RS200. Like these cars it is potentially extremely fast and agile, but unlike them it’s designed to use a far higher percentage of production components, and to be built to a ‘notional’ purchase price of around £40k.

The engine is a front-mounted version of Subaru’s familiar 2.0 litre turbocharged flat-four engine with well over 300bhp on tap. The car will weigh only about 1000kg, so performance should match a Ferrari F430’s or Lamborghini Gallardo’s. However, the Prodrive coupé’s small size, short overhangs, optimal weight distribution (from elements such as side-mounted radiators) – plus its Subaru-sourced 4x4 drive train – should make it considerably more agile than conventional mid-engined supercars. The suspension, brakes and steering are also sourced from the Impreza.

The project is the brainchild of David Richards, Prodrive’s founder and chairman, who describes the car as a technology demonstrator, intended to showcase his firm’s automotive design and engineering talents. The coupé will feature new stability and turbo anti-lag systems, both devised at Prodrive. Though the project is only three months old, the car is scheduled to be finished by the end of the year, because Richards wants to demonstrate Prodrive’s speed and flexibility at realising projects.

There is no production plan at present, and Prodrive hasn’t arrived at an official name for the project. But it seems unlikely that Subaru – with whom Prodrive has a long and fruitful relationship – will be unmoved by news of an enticing project which uses so many of its components in a revolutionary way. Sources at Prodrive are keeping tight-lipped about Subaru’s involvement, but an early viewing of the coupé project by the Japanese company’s bosses seems more than likely."
Now that's what I'm talking about!! :D

I think the Legacy is a great looking car, so much so I actually considered it over my 8 for 1/2 second. :)

^me too, and then i slapped some sense back into myself :D

I'm with you on this one KHTM...Subaru makes a nice technical car but void of style. Kind of reminds me of Toyota these days.

Solara = style :p

SVX

SVX


the car with some visual character and they don't make it anymore...

...they make a solid car...just make then look better.

Solara = style :p


nope..can't agree with you there...the car has a blotted look like the wrong girl wearing spandex. :(

solara is the ugliest car... ew cures look terrible to me.. it looks liek a stretched out taurus... EW

solara is the ugliest car... ew cures look terrible to me.. it looks liek a stretched out taurus... EW

I agree--the last Solara was decent looking (a girl car) but its performance was super mediocre--this latest one is one of the ugliest cars on the road. You would have to pay me to be seen driving that bloated shit.

I think people miss the lines on the WRX. It has a quick look to it, but I certainly wouldn't call it "sleek" or "sexy". I blame the front fascia and lights mostly. The Subaru's are a different breed though. If you think it's butt ass ugly because it doesn't look like a Aston Martin, then I think you just don't understand Subaru. I appreciate the styling for what it is, though (sorry Ike...) I think my 8 is a hell of a lot better looking, even if it's not as fast.

However, to take the other side for a moment, studies show ladies care more about how you actually perform in certain "adult" activities than if you look like you're really good at it. lol

Remember the Brat?

Disclaimer: I know that looks are subjective and that this thread might get ugly, but keep in mind that it's just my opinion...

I like what Subaru is doing with the performance of their cars, the AWD, and how they have awesome reliability...I just can't get over the fact that they all look "boxy", "boring", "non-aerodynamic", etc. And they all even look very similar.

Almost every other company I can think of has at least one car that looks "cool" (for lack of a better word) and/or stands out from its other cars:
- Ford has the Mustang and GT
- Mazda has the RX-8 and Miata
- Honda has the S2000
- Toyota has the MR-2 Spyder
- Nissan has the 350Z
- Chrysler has the Crossfire
- Chevrolet has the Corvette
- Dodge has the Viper
- Volvo even has the C70
- I won't get into the higher-end auto makers...


Anyways, why can't they make something that looks good? I realize they sell well the way they are now, but paaleeeease Subaru....! :)


I don't think my Legacy looks anything like an Impreza?

:D

Whatever Subaru is doing. it's working. 20 years ago, among plummeting sales, economists predicted that Subaru would have to pull out of the USDM. What a turnaround. IIRC they're growing between 8-12% in the US almost every year. For a company that size that's amazing.

Personally I don't care what a car looks like (assuming it's not a Citron, Pinto, etc) if it can haul ass and handle like some of the Subarus. The only time I ever see the outside of my car is when I'm washing it or walking up to it. The rest of the time it's everybody else's problem. :p

Yeah I thought that was odd, use the Elise for a size comparison, but a Fiesta???
I have a Scottish in-law who once told me that in the UK the Ford Fiesta used to be offered in a turbo charged version called the "RS". He said in Europe the word "Fiesta" brings a totally different image to mind than what people over here know. Apparently that version never made it to the US...

http://www.turbocharger.co.uk/images/rs-fiesta-turbo-04.jpg

http://www.turbocharger.co.uk/rs-fiesta-turbo.html

the car with some visual character and they don't make it anymore...

...they make a solid car...just make then look better.

Some of us would rather be fast than look fast :D

good example= forrester :D^^

good example= forrester :D^^

Yep, to me there is something very cool about an ugly little SUV that will lay the smack down on most affordable sportscars, V8 powered SUVs and trucks, and big engine Luxury cars on the market.

Looks are subjective. I don't get why people don't get that? I know some that think the 8 is ugly. Subaru is different and I like them. IMO their cars look good and they are def no Toyota or Honda when it comes to style IMO.

I guess I'll come out of the closet here and say that I find something attractive about the Impreza 2.5 RS. That might be because it looks tastefully understated next to the STi, though.

thank you for bringing this up KHTM...

I have always liked subarus for their inovation, reliability...AWD vision...no frills advertising...etc etc etc...the 'goody too shoes company you actually respect greatly' but....

there has never and based on currently styling and brand recognition probably will not be an attractive subaru...every car of theirs has made me feel either like a river rafting hippy (I have no beef with hippies btw) or a teenager wearing abercrombie cargo shorts and drinking mountain dew all day (I do have a beef with them though).

please please please Subaru...I don't care if you keep all these f-ing ugly ass cars...for g-ds sake just make a subsidiary that has its own brand (ie luxury performance line like Acura) and your company will explode in sales and you'll have more money to further your stellar technical innovations

please please please Subaru...I don't care if you keep all these f-ing ugly ass cars...for g-ds sake just make a subsidiary that has its own brand (ie luxury performance line like Acura) and your company will explode in sales and you'll have more money to further your stellar technical innovations

Subaru is doing just fine without your advice. They have some of the highest brand loyalty in the industry, their sales have been increasing every year for severla years, and many people like the styling. The last time another Japanese automaker thought about doing a Luxury line they introduced a car to feel out the market they produced some sales dog called the Millenia and shortly thereafter had to be bailed out by Ford.

Subaru knows what they are doing and the sales, reliability, and owner loyalty show it.

I guess I'll come out of the closet here and say that I find something attractive about the Impreza 2.5 RS. That might be because it looks tastefully understated next to the STi, though.
THANK YOU

are you people retarded or what? the Impreza WRX STi Ver.5, Ver. 6, Impreza WRX 5th and 6th gen, and the american 2.5 RS are some of the best looking cars around. with proper work they do 350-450WHP(this is with engine upgrades and turboed) and whoop a current STi7, even in the torque category.

...every car of theirs has made me feel either like a river rafting hippy

alright, i have to admit, their US image portrayal is very outdoorsy old sandal wearing hippies type with their oh so popular forester and such and thats how its always been. in japan they are a well respected company and dish out lots of high performance cars like the LB4 and the WRX Imprezas all the way back to the beginning. i certainly didn't feel that way in the Legacy(the new legacy looks GREAT, and they need to bring the b4 to the USA) and the WRX/STi, i felt like kicking someone's ass on the street rather. while the WRX/STi looks are subjective, ill state my opinion...the newer ones(03 and up) look great(it took a little while to grow on me) but the old bug eye WRX's(01' and 02') look ugly as hell.

-edit-
yes that's right Ike i think you're bug eye style rex is ugly :p

Subaru is doing just fine without your advice. They have some of the highest brand loyalty in the industry, their sales have been increasing every year for severla years, and many people like the styling. The last time another Japanese automaker thought about doing a Luxury line they introduced a car to feel out the market they produced some sales dog called the Millenia and shortly thereafter had to be bailed out by Ford.

Subaru knows what they are doing and the sales, reliability, and owner loyalty show it.

a luxury sports car line you turd

Subaru obviously needs advice as many people I know admire their company but wouldn't be caught dead driving one

Subraru needs some graphic designers with balls

Subaru is doing just fine without your advice. They have some of the highest brand loyalty in the industry, their sales have been increasing every year for severla years, and many people like the styling. The last time another Japanese automaker thought about doing a Luxury line they introduced a car to feel out the market they produced some sales dog called the Millenia and shortly thereafter had to be bailed out by Ford.

Subaru knows what they are doing and the sales, reliability, and owner loyalty show it.

i dont care what you say they still sell shit compared to any other japanese car maker, except for suzuki :rolleyes:

and there are certainly more mazdas on the road than subarus :rolleyes:

a luxury sports car line you turd

Subaru obviously needs advice as many people I know admire their company but wouldn't be caught dead driving one

Subraru needs some graphic designers with balls

If you had any clue what you were talking about you would know that Millenia was going to be the luxury brand for Mazda, it wasn't originally supposed to just be one car. Who's the "turd" now? I also know a lot of people that admire the looks of the RX-8 but wouldn't be caught dead owning one, so what's your point?

If you had any clue what you were talking about you would know that Millenia was going to be the luxury brand for Mazda, it wasn't originally supposed to just be one car. Who's the "turd" now? I also know a lot of people that admire the looks of the RX-8 but wouldn't be caught dead owning one, so what's your point?

what the heck does this have to do with the Millenia...how is the Millenia a luxury sports car? It is a large sedan...I know because I own a Millenia S I use for when I have relatives in town and for tranporting stuff

I'm talking about Acura NSX, RSX (me dont like)

put together supercars subaru should do this

i dont care what you say they still sell shit compared to any other japanese car maker, except for suzuki :rolleyes:

and there are certainly more mazdas on the road than subarus :rolleyes:

Casue we all know the carmakers that are the biggest and sell the most cars are the superior ones. There are more Pontiacs on the road than Mazdas, I guess that makes them better. At least Subaru has controlling interest in their own company unlike Mazda.

We're ugly and we have controlling interest...tell 'em Paul Hogan sent you!

Ike runs right out to his local Subaru dealer and tells them to give him their ugliest...

"C'mon baby, I want to shatter traffic lights."

what the heck does this have to do with the Millenia...how is the Millenia a luxury sports car? It is a large sedan...I know because I own a Millenia S I use for when I have relatives in town and for tranporting stuff

I'm talking about Acura NSX, RSX (me dont like)

put together supercars subaru should do this

Yeah, Subarus would "explode in sales" if they had a car like the NSX. Every carmaker wants a car that they call sell about 200 units of a year in the US and lose huge amounts of money on. They should also follow the model of the RSX rather than the Impreza, who cares if the Impreza outsells the RSX by thousands every year...

You'll have to forgive Ike. The concept of flagship or tech demo cars is a little out of his range.

Think Viper. Before the Viper, Chrysler were the idiots who brought the K-car and the Voyager to market. The cars sold, but they didn't build a serious rep. Subaru is basically Chrysler in the mid-eighties. Enjoy your K-car.

You'll have to forgive Ike. The concept of flagship or tech demo cars is a little out of his range.

Think Viper. Before the Viper, Chrysler were the idiots who brought the K-car and the Voyager to market. The cars sold, but they didn't build a serious rep. Subaru is basically Chrysler in the mid-eighties. Enjoy your K-car.

very good point

Subaru slipped by with an improvement on the year selling 187,402 cars in 2004 compared to 186,819 in 2003. Strong sales of the new Legacy offset poor performances by the Baja (down 32%!), Impreza and even Forester. Maybe that tells Subaru it’s time for some needed changes on the other half of their line-up.

Whatever Subaru is doing. it's working. 20 years ago, among plummeting sales, economists predicted that Subaru would have to pull out of the USDM. What a turnaround. IIRC they're growing between 8-12% in the US almost every year. For a company that size that's amazing.

Personally I don't care what a car looks like (assuming it's not a Citron, Pinto, etc) if it can haul ass and handle like some of the Subarus. The only time I ever see the outside of my car is when I'm washing it or walking up to it. The rest of the time it's everybody else's problem. :p


I have a Scottish in-law who once told me that in the UK the Ford Fiesta used to be offered in a turbo charged version called the "RS". He said in Europe the word "Fiesta" brings a totally different image to mind than what people over here know. Apparently that version never made it to the US...


They still make performance versions of the Fiesta and always have. The latest is the ST.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/ford/ford_images/ford_fiesta_st_24_02_04.jpg

very good point
Actually it's not. Subaru already has a flagship. It performs just as well as the early Vipers except you don't have to be a fortune 500 executive to own one...plus you can drive it in the snow.

Subaru's business model works. They are a success story. Sinking millions of dollars of R&D into an exotic nobody can afford is a marketing ploy. Subaru already has name recognition and Lance Armstrong doing commercials so why would they need that?

uhh is this flagship the STi?

I wish Mitsubishi would relaunch the 3000 GT platform with an engine as powerful as the EVO 8's. Then you could have both looks and performance out of one of their cars instead of a wicked fast shit box.

I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.

But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.

I wish Mitsubishi would relaunch the 3000 GT platform with an engine as powerful as the EVO 8's. Then you could have both looks and performance out of one of their cars instead of a wicked fast shit box.

I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.

But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.


You don't consider the Legacy a sportier (non-rally inspired) sedan thats fast?

uhh is this flagship the STi?
Well it's certainly not the Tribeca. :rolleyes:

Ike sure doesn't like the Subs to be put down in any way :) No problem pointing out the 8s perceived flaws though. I have to like the looks of what I drive and if you don't street race noone will convince me the 8 doesn't have more then enough power. Hell of alot sexier and they know it so they have to talk about power that is rarely used without eyeballing for the flashing lights and 100 dollar plus fines. I can get there plenty fast, have a great interior, comfort and great looks. You can have the ugly boxes. Kids tend to like fast over overall package. Kind of like a highend stereo in a rustbucket like i have seen :)

Actually it's not. Subaru already has a flagship. It performs just as well as the early Vipers except you don't have to be a fortune 500 executive to own one...plus you can drive it in the snow.

Subaru's business model works. They are a success story. Sinking millions of dollars of R&D into an exotic nobody can afford is a marketing ploy. Subaru already has name recognition and Lance Armstrong doing commercials so why would they need that?

Uh, yeah. You have absolutely no idea what a flagship car is. It has nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with perception, which is driven largely by numbers, but not dictated by them alone.

I can't argue that Subaru's business model doesn't work. They're here. When they aren't, that'll be the sign that it doesn't work.

You don't have to be a Fortune 500 executive to buy a $65,000 car. The Viper was the cheapest supercar (unless you consider the Acura NSX a supercar) of its time. Anyway, it's about image. Subaru's image isn't what all the fanbois would have you believe. Outside of like three internet forums (you *do* pop your head out there into the real world once in a while, right?) nobody knows what an STi is.

Some of us would rather be fast than look fast :D


well that explains the way you dress! :D

You don't consider the Legacy a sportier (non-rally inspired) sedan thats fast?

uum, the legacy was designed as a rally car, it was subarus rally car untill they designed the Impreza to take its place.

Well it's certainly not the Tribeca. :rolleyes:

it isn't? :confused:
wtf, sUm PpL R lyk s0 r3t4rded hear i gEt lyk so0o0 anoid! :mad:

Uh, yeah. You have absolutely no idea what a flagship car is. It has nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with perception, which is driven largely by numbers, but not dictated by them alone.

I can't argue that Subaru's business model doesn't work. They're here. When they aren't, that'll be the sign that it doesn't work.

You don't have to be a Fortune 500 executive to buy a $65,000 car. The Viper was the cheapest supercar (unless you consider the Acura NSX a supercar) of its time. Anyway, it's about image. Subaru's image isn't what all the fanbois would have you believe. Outside of like three internet forums (you *do* pop your head out there into the real world once in a while, right?) nobody knows what an STi is. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the STi is Subaru's current flagship...just as Chevy has the Corvette, Dodge has the Viper, Mitsubishi has the Evo, Mazda has the RX-8 and Nissan has the 350Z. Since apparently, at almost 30 years of age, I'm some sort of clearing house for fanboi knowledge, let me impart some upon you: the "flagship" is the car that gets passer-bys into the dealership, gets folks talking, and gives the salemen a chance to yank his employer's chain. It sits shining and freshly waxed on the showroom floor. It takes center stage at the auto show exhibit. It's featured in auto mag covers and, above else, it's the car that marketeers describe with words like "our vision", "forefront", "innovative" and "tomorrow".

In the "real" world flagships don't have huge followings...they have niche followings of uber enthusiasts. Their technological advancements allow a company to say "well, if we can make that then imagine what our other cars are like". Get it now? That's a flagship...not automatically the best selling car, or the biggest SUV or the most expensive ride. It's a combination part perception, part intangibles, and part something else.

Disclaimer: I know that looks are subjective and that this thread might get ugly, but keep in mind that it's just my opinion...


I agree with you 100%. Subaru is like toyota, nissan, Buick and Mercury stylewise to me; I'd never stop by their lots unless they were giving away freebies, and then it'd just be for that reason, not for the cars.

Uh, yeah. You have absolutely no idea what a flagship car is. It has nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with perception, which is driven largely by numbers, but not dictated by them alone.

I can't argue that Subaru's business model doesn't work. They're here. When they aren't, that'll be the sign that it doesn't work.

You don't have to be a Fortune 500 executive to buy a $65,000 car. The Viper was the cheapest supercar (unless you consider the Acura NSX a supercar) of its time. Anyway, it's about image. Subaru's image isn't what all the fanbois would have you believe. Outside of like three internet forums (you *do* pop your head out there into the real world once in a while, right?) nobody knows what an STi is.

Perception is for morons, it also usually doesn't work which is the reason there are no longer cars like the Supra, 3000GT, and FD RX-7, SVX, and soon no NSX.

Now if you pack a lineup full of fast, reliable, affordable, practical, and fun to drive cars then you've got something. Sound familiar? FYI every car enthusiast on the planet knows what an STi and WRX is, as does your average car guy/girl and those are the only people I really care about when it comes to cars.

I would have loved to own an Sti. It's just the sedan look that puts me off, and that wing.

Does Subaru still make the 2-door version? A properly kitted-out 2-door Sti could look decent.

Casue we all know the carmakers that are the biggest and sell the most cars are the superior ones. There are more Pontiacs on the road than Mazdas, I guess that makes them better. At least Subaru has controlling interest in their own company unlike Mazda.

*cough*Fuji Heavy Industries*cough*

'Nuff said.

They're part of the Fuji group... they've got the cash and they're run better than Mitsubishi.

I would have loved to own an Sti. It's just the sedan look that puts me off, and that wing.

Does Subaru still make the 2-door version? A properly kitted-out 2-door Sti could look decent.

Done. At least for Japan and Europe they are looking at a 3 and 5 door hatchback version according to a recent mag article i read.

http://www.22b.com/media/cardriver_head.jpg

22b is nice :)

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the STi is Subaru's current flagship...just as Chevy has the Corvette, Dodge has the Viper, Mitsubishi has the Evo, Mazda has the RX-8 and Nissan has the 350Z. Since apparently, at almost 30 years of age, I'm some sort of clearing house for fanboi knowledge, let me impart some upon you: the "flagship" is the car that gets passer-bys into the dealership, gets folks talking, and gives the salemen a chance to yank his employer's chain. It sits shining and freshly waxed on the showroom floor. It takes center stage at the auto show exhibit. It's featured in auto mag covers and, above else, it's the car that marketeers describe with words like "our vision", "forefront", "innovative" and "tomorrow".

In the "real" world flagships don't have huge followings...they have niche followings of uber enthusiasts. Their technological advancements allow a company to say "well, if we can make that then imagine what our other cars are like". Get it now? That's a flagship...not automatically the best selling car, or the biggest SUV or the most expensive ride. It's a combination part perception, part intangibles, and part something else.

Except for the part about the STi, you just regurgitated everything I've been saying. Maybe you meant to quote Ike's post about the NSX selling 200 units?

Perception is for morons, it also usually doesn't work which is the reason there are no longer cars like the Supra, 3000GT, and FD RX-7, SVX, and soon no NSX.

Now if you pack a lineup full of fast, reliable, affordable, practical, and fun to drive cars then you've got something. Sound familiar? FYI every car enthusiast on the planet knows what an STi and WRX is, as does your average car guy/girl and those are the only people I really care about when it comes to cars.

^^^^^^^^Ike's thoughts sitting at every stop light. ^^^^^^^^^

It runs over and over like a tape loop. Girls think the dork in the funny looking boy-racer car is checking them out, but that quote is all he's thinking.

I wish Mitsubishi would relaunch the 3000 GT platform with an engine as powerful as the EVO 8's. Then you could have both looks and performance out of one of their cars instead of a wicked fast shit box.

I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.

But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
Yes! This is exactly what I was getting at...

uum, the legacy was designed as a rally car, it was subarus rally car untill they designed the Impreza to take its place.


I'm not saying it never was, I'm saying the redesigned Legacy's are far from rally inspired.

I wish Mitsubishi would relaunch the 3000 GT platform with an engine as powerful as the EVO 8's. Then you could have both looks and performance out of one of their cars instead of a wicked fast shit box.

I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.

But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.

uh . . the 3000GT VR-4 had an engine WAY more powerful than the EVO.

EVO - AWD, 2.0L I4, single-turbo, 287 hp

VR4 - AWD, All-Wheel Steering, Active Suspension, Active Aerodynamics, 3.0L V6, twin-turbo, 320 hp

550 whp VR4 is faster than a 700 whp Supra.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the STi is Subaru's current flagship...just as Chevy has the Corvette, Dodge has the Viper, Mitsubishi has the Evo, Mazda has the RX-8 and Nissan has the 350Z. the "flagship" is the car that gets passer-bys into the dealership, gets folks talking, and gives the salemen a chance to yank his employer's chain. It sits shining and freshly waxed on the showroom floor. It takes center stage at the auto show exhibit. It's featured in auto mag covers and, above else, it's the car that marketeers describe with words like "our vision", "forefront", "innovative" and "tomorrow".

In the "real" world flagships don't have huge followings...they have niche followings of uber enthusiasts. Their technological advancements allow a company to say "well, if we can make that then imagine what our other cars are like". Get it now? That's a flagship...not automatically the best selling car, or the biggest SUV or the most expensive ride. It's a combination part perception, part intangibles, and part something else.


But in the MS6 vs. RX8 thread you clearly stated:

The RX-8 is no longer Mazda's flagship.

Now is it or isn't it? :p

If you had any clue what you were talking about you would know that Millenia was going to be the luxury brand for Mazda, it wasn't originally supposed to just be one car. Who's the "turd" now? I also know a lot of people that admire the looks of the RX-8 but wouldn't be caught dead owning one, so what's your point?

Actually, you're wrong about this statement. The Mazda luxury brand was going to be called Amati. ;)


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In any event, what does it matter if subaru changes it's style or not. Obviously, they're selling as is and if you don't like it, don't buy it. Plain and simple. You can complain about every car but the fact is, cars are made for MANY ppl to enjoy, not for one person. :rolleyes:

Actually, you're wrong about this statement. The Mazda luxury brand was going to be called Amati. ;)


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In any event, what does it matter if subaru changes it's style or not. Obviously, they're selling as is and if you don't like it, don't buy it. Plain and simple. You can complain about every car but the fact is, cars are made for MANY ppl to enjoy, not for one person. :rolleyes:

Meant to say part of the Luxury brand, I think it was the Pegasus that was supposed to be the other car that was going to kick off the Amanti brand in the mid 90s.

^^^^^^^^Ike's thoughts sitting at every stop light. ^^^^^^^^^

It runs over and over like a tape loop. Girls think the dork in the funny looking boy-racer car is checking them out, but that quote is all he's thinking.

I'll take you resorting to personal attacks in your last few posts as a sign of defeat.

i take the peronsl attacks in the last page or so as a sign to close the thread. grow up people. that includes everyone who just read the last sentence and thought " he's not talking about me"