View Full Version : DeLay - Republican: Bad. Sanders - Democrat: It's OK


GotZoom
04-13-2005, 09:13 AM
I wonder if we will see or hear about this on the major network news sources?

Sanders paid wife, stepdaughter for campaign efforts

By EVAN LEHMANN,
MediaNews Group Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON -- Rep. Bernard Sanders used campaign donations to pay his wife and stepdaughter more than $150,000 for campaign-related work since 2000, according to records filed with the Federal Election Commission.

Jane O'Meara Sanders, his wife, received $91,020 between 2002 and 2004 for "consultation" and for negotiating the purchase of television and radio time-slots for Sanders' advertisements, according to records and interviews.

Approximately $61,000 of that was "pass through" money that was used to pay media outlets for advertising time, Jane O'Meara Sanders said in an interview. The rest, about $30,000, she kept as payment for her services, she said.

Carina Driscoll, daughter to Jane O'Meara Sanders and stepdaughter to the lawmaker, earned $65,002 in "wages" between 2000 and 2004, campaign records show.

Driscoll, a former state legislator, served as Rep. Sanders' campaign manager in 2000, his fund-raiser and office manager in 2003 and his database manager in 2004, according to Jeff Weaver, Sanders' chief of staff.

"Both of them are regarded as people who are knowledgable about Vermont politics," Weaver said Tuesday. "They earned every penny they got."

It seems Sanders is the only member of Vermont's congressional delegation to employ family members. "Sen. Jeffords has not hired any members of his family on his current or past campaigns," said Erik Smulson, his communications director. A spokesman for Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy said the same thing.

No laws prohibit candidates from paying family members for campaign work. But the appearance that lawmakers use their position to benefit people close to them concerns watchdog groups.

"Anytime you pay a family member there's going to be questions raised," said Larry Noble, executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics, a non-partisan research group in Washington.

The real question, he says, is whether family members conducted work commesurate to their pay. If they did, "then it's more difficult to say (lawmakers) are funneling money back to the family."

Mary Bloyer, a spokeswoman for Common Cause, a nonprofit advocacy group, said: "The danger here is that you want members of Congress who are in Washington to serve their constituents and not enrich their families. Something like this makes people look twice and makes them wonder what's going on here."

Jane O'Meara Sanders said she worked for her husband for years with no pay, and started charging him only after opening a consulting company, Progressive Media Strategies, which was changed to Leadership Strategies.

"It became clear I could not offer professional services to other candidates and charge them if I worked for Bernie for free," she said.

Still, Jane O'Meara Sanders said her fees are comparatively low, especially for her husband.

"I think the fact that other candidates have chosen to hire me and pay more than what Bernie pays me says that my services are pretty good," she said.

The ethics of lawmakers paying their families jumped into the spotlight on Capitol Hill last week, following reports that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay of Texas had paid his wife and daughter more than $500,000 for campaign-related work.

Jim Barrett, chairman of the Vermont Republican Party, used Sanders' family payments to highlight what he said is Democratic "hypocrisy" for fiercely attacking DeLay. "It's the standard hypocrisy from the left," Barrett said. "When a Republican does it, it's inappropriate and front page news. But now it turns out, our own Bernie Sanders has been doing it for a long time."

He added: "If it's corruption when Tom DeLay does it, then it's corruption when Bernie Sanders does it."

Jon Copans, executive director of the state Democratic Party, declined to comment.

But Democratic groups are targeting DeLay for defeat in his 2006 election.

Vermont-based Democracy for America, started by former Gov. Howard Dean, disseminated a mass e-mail Tuesday asking supporters for witty slogans it can paste on billboards in DeLay's Texas district. The billboards, the e-mail says, will let voters there know "it's time for him to go."

Weaver, Sanders' chief of staff, said it was unfair to compare the Vermont Independent with DeLay, who paid his family much more in a shorter period of time.

"For the work they did, they got exactly what anyone else would have been paid," he said of Jane O'Meara Sanders and Driscoll. "Politics is like anything else - you always try to hire the best person."

Even Barrett admitted that the $65,000 earned by Driscoll over four years "almost sounds low."

But he said, "We don't know what she was doing for work. Was she a full-time operative? Were these just consulting fees? Who knows?"

zhizoe
04-13-2005, 09:35 AM
Of course we're going to hear a lot about it. That's pretty much the only defense to come out for Delay so his supporters are going to jump all over it. If the article is true, Sanders should be held accountable.

But in comparison to Delay's mistakes, it falls pretty short. According to the article about half of it was pass through money. Which, if true means that he gave 90K rather then 150K over the 5 years. Which is wrong. But it is not 500K like our friend Delay.

Also, Mr. Delay's lapses in judgement go far beyond just paying his wife and daughter 100K a year. Here's a fun page with his different scandals on it:

http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/delaycasefile/index.html

If the article is true, Sanders has done wrong, and should be held accountable. As should Delay. We might have to change the rules to specificially forbid these things, and include stiff penalties.

It's going to hurt people like Jane Sanders who run political consulting groups, but in my mind that's worth it to remove any chance of impropriety.

jsh1120
04-13-2005, 09:43 AM
It's hardly unusual for politicians of both parties to employ members of their families in political jobs. The various reports on DeLay's behavior have, as far as I know, universally made that point.

For example, the NY Times said in its story...

"Although several members of Congress employ family members as campaign managers or on their political action committees, advocacy groups seeking an overhaul of federal campaign-finance and ethics laws say that the payments to Mr. DeLay's family members were unusually generous, and should be the focus of new scrutiny of the Texas congressman."

"Unusually generous" is putting it mildly. For example, the story about Sanders indicates that his wife was paid "about $30,000" over a three year period (2002-2004), or $10,000 per year. His stepdaughter "earned $65,002 in "wages" between 2000 and 2004," or about $13,000 per year.

In contrast DeLay paid his wife and daughter "more than $500,000" from 2001 to 2004, an average of at least $125,000 per year or about five times the amount cited for Sanders' wife and stepdaughter.

And it doesn't end there. According to disclosure records, DeLay's wife and daughter also currently earn about $96,000 per year from the "Fund for a Republican Majority," the political action committee started and controlled by DeLay.

Sorry, buddy, but there is a difference between mountains and molehills.

GotZoom
04-13-2005, 09:46 AM
It's hardly unusual for politicians of both parties to employ members of their families in political jobs. The various reports on DeLay's behavior have, as far as I know, universally made that point.

For example, the NY Times said in its story...

"Although several members of Congress employ family members as campaign managers or on their political action committees, advocacy groups seeking an overhaul of federal campaign-finance and ethics laws say that the payments to Mr. DeLay's family members were unusually generous, and should be the focus of new scrutiny of the Texas congressman."

"Unusually generous" is putting it mildly. For example, the story about Sanders indicates that his wife was paid "about $30,000" over a three year period (2002-2004), or $10,000 per year. His stepdaughter "earned $65,002 in "wages" between 2000 and 2004," or about $13,000 per year.

In contrast DeLay paid his wife and daughter "more than $500,000" from 2001 to 2004, an average of at least $125,000 per year or about five times the amount cited for Sanders' wife and stepdaughter.

And it doesn't end there. According to disclosure records, DeLay's wife and daughter also currently earn about $96,000 per year from the "Fund for a Republican Majority," the political action committee started and controlled by DeLay.

Sorry, buddy, but there is a difference between mountains and molehills.


So...

Since it isn't as much money, it is still bad...just not AS bad.

Rupes
04-13-2005, 09:56 AM
For example, the NY Times said in its story...



I read that the NY times has something like a 10-1 ratio of dem's to repub's writing for them. While their news coverage may be umm unbiased (yea right) the things they write about often will reflect something they agree with, hence their need to make DeLay the prime target. I really don't read the NY times anymore because they simply pick stories that don't conflict with their own personal political feelings, and you'll never get the real news that way.

dmp
04-13-2005, 09:57 AM
So...

Since it isn't as much money, it is still bad...just not AS bad.


Give it up bro...no matter how articulate or well-thought-out your point, you won't get him to concede one iota. It'll be a diatribe about how foolish you are for thinking the way you do - you'll be ridiculed for being so 'simplistic in thought'.

:rolleyes: jsh is smart - he just embraces lies, and calls the lies 'truth' because they are easy on the ears.

jsh1120
04-13-2005, 10:03 AM
So...

Since it isn't as much money, it is still bad...just not AS bad.
Yup. Like stealing a loaf of bread isn't as bad as ripping off millions of consumers through Enron's frauds. If you're unable to distinguish the difference between such actions, there's a place for you in the current administration.

Frankly, I don't necessarily have a problem with either DeLay's or Sanders' actions in these specific cases. If, in fact, the family members actually earned the money they were paid, I see nothing wrong with a politician paying whomever he/she pleases for political work.

However, it would require rather large blinders to ignore the fact that DeLay has been repeatedly rebuked for ethical violations by the House Ethics Committee and that DeLay's reaction was to gut the Ethics Committee rules and replace its membership with compliant Republican members.

It would also take a considerable effort to ignore the various nefarious characters DeLay has surrounded himself with including several of whom are currently under indictment.

In contrast, Sanders has never been cited for ethical violations in the Senate. The amount of money in question is hardly significant enough to raise major questions about whether his wife/stepdaughter actually earned the money.

Bottom line. When and if DeLay's defenders can come up with some real issues, they can be discussed. Until then, it's just a weak defense for a hypocrite.

GotZoom
04-13-2005, 10:03 AM
Give it up bro...no matter how articulate or well-thought-out your point, you won't get him to concede one iota. It'll be a diatribe about how foolish you are for thinking the way you do - you'll be ridiculed for being so 'simplistic in thought'.

:rolleyes: jsh is smart - he just embraces lies, and calls the lies 'truth' because they are easy on the ears.

I know. Sigh.

That is ok though. That is what makes America great. Differences of opinion. The right to to articulate a well-thought-out point in just 15 words.

And the right to write 7 paragraphs trying to dispute the 15 words in that sentence. (But still not get the point)

jsh1120
04-13-2005, 10:07 AM
...:rolleyes: jsh is smart - he just embraces lies, and calls the lies 'truth' because they are easy on the ears.
More of those sweeping generalizations, Darin. The fact that I'm flattered by the first one and offended by the second doesn't change the fact that you once again fail to cite evidence for either one.

zhizoe
04-13-2005, 10:07 AM
I read that the NY times has something like a 10-1 ratio of dem's to repub's writing for them. While their news coverage may be umm unbiased (yea right) the things they write about often will reflect something they agree with, hence their need to make DeLay the prime target.

Even if that number was true, which I doubt, it shouldn't matter. The end goal of journalism is impartiality. Any good journalist can remove their prejudice from a story. And those who write for the NYT have proven themselves as being some of the best journalists in America. That doesn't mean that they are without their share of problems, however. Remember they joined the pack in smearing Gore at any opportunity. Also, Judy Miller got in a lot of trouble for joining the pack and saying that Iraq had WMDs, when as it turned out, her information came from a single source, Challabi. Which is a big no no in real journalism, you have to have more then one source.

That was at the center of the national guard issue. Rather had two sources, but one were these documents that were uncertain. So he really only had one.

Delay was the prime target for a number of reasons:

http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/delaycasefile/index.html

klegg
04-13-2005, 10:09 AM
[QUOTE=GotZoom]I.

No laws prohibit candidates from paying family members for campaign work. QUOTE]




Ok, so what is the problem?

klegg
04-13-2005, 10:10 AM
More of those sweeping generalizations, Darin. The fact that I'm flattered by the first one and offended by the second doesn't change the fact that you once again fail to cite evidence for either one.


It could be worse..He could have called you a lawyer.. :rolleyes:

GotZoom
04-13-2005, 10:14 AM
[QUOTE=GotZoom]I.

No laws prohibit candidates from paying family members for campaign work. QUOTE]




Ok, so what is the problem?


I don't have a problem with candidates paying family members - as long as the family members work.

My first question in the post was:

I wonder if we will see or hear about this on the major network news sources?

Which would indicate that my question was referring to the press coverage of this incident. How DeLay is plastered everywhere and that I wondered if we would hear about this as equally as we do about DeLay.

Oh....but I know we want.

What he did wasn't as bad as what DeLay did.

It's bad...just not as bad.

Rupes
04-13-2005, 10:14 AM
Even if that number was true, which I doubt, it shouldn't matter. The end goal of journalism is impartiality. Any good journalist can remove their prejudice from a story. And those who write for the NYT have proven themselves as being some of the best journalists in America. That doesn't mean that they are without their share of problems, however. Remember they joined the pack in smearing Gore at any opportunity. Also, Judy Miller got in a lot of trouble for joining the pack and saying that Iraq had WMDs, when as it turned out, her information came from a single source, Challabi. Which is a big no no in real journalism, you have to have more then one source.

That was at the center of the national guard issue. Rather had two sources, but one were these documents that were uncertain. So he really only had one.

Delay was the prime target for a number of reasons:

http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/delaycasefile/index.html

The point is was trying to make is what the writers choose to write about. It's not so much that they are impartial its when your faced with choosing two stories one involving a bad dem and one involving a bad repub, which one do you choose? Obviously front page stuff aside, people naturaly will write about something they feel strongly about, would you agree?

dmp
04-13-2005, 10:14 AM
More of those sweeping generalizations, Darin. The fact that I'm flattered by the first one and offended by the second doesn't change the fact that you once again fail to cite evidence for either one.


Translation: Nothing you write I will agree with or even concede as plausible. I don't seek evidence, I seek opinion which supports other opinions i've already formed.

...I'm sorry for offending you. :(

zhizoe
04-13-2005, 10:19 AM
The point is was trying to make is what the writers choose to write about. It's not so much that they are impartial its when your faced with choosing two stories one involving a bad dem and one involving a bad repub, which one do you choose? Obviously front page stuff aside, people naturaly will write about something they feel strongly about, would you agree?

Actually writers don't choose what to write about, the editors do. And almost all of them are conservative. They are the ones who get to choose which story to run. But luckily, like the reporters, they don't let their politics color their job.

GotZoom
04-13-2005, 10:20 AM
Actually writers don't choose what to write about, the editors do. And almost all of them are conservative. They are the ones who get to choose which story to run. But luckily, like the reporters, they don't let their politics color their job.

:eek:

jsh1120
04-13-2005, 10:24 AM
Translation: Nothing you write I will agree with or even concede as plausible. I don't seek evidence, I seek opinion which supports other opinions i've already formed.

...I'm sorry for offending you. :(
You didn't offend me, buddy. And when and if you can cite "lies" I've asserted as "truth," you're welcome to call me on it. Until then, however, I think being called a liar is a legitimate reason to ask for evidence.