I know most of the benefits of driving a manual car, but haven't had a chance to own one. I've actually PAID to take lesson's (about 3-4 classes spread out in 2 weeks) and took my friend's manual Tercel and MR2 out for a spin twice.

I'm about 50-60% confident (gonna stall going up hills etc) with manual and was wondering if it was a good idea learning manual on an expensive car like an RX-8. Should I buy a cheap beater for a year or something? I've been driving for 5 years now without an accident (besides being rear-ended once) in an auto.

I can only imagine how nervous I would be if I had to drive a brand new manual RX-8 out of a downtown dealership back home during rush hour.

Originally posted by Phot3k
I know most of the benefits of driving a manual car, but haven't had a chance to own one. I've actually PAID to take lesson's (about 3-4 classes spread out in 2 weeks) and took my friend's manual Tercel and MR2 out for a spin twice.



Try riding a motorcycle! Just kiddin. Buy a beater and once you feel confident enough (about 3 months maybe less), buy the RX8. You'll get the added benefit of jumping from a crappy manual to a high performance car. You'll never go back to A/T, unless you got kids, a cellphone and a latte.:p

Sure, you can't mess it up *that* bad if you got the general idea of it down. You'll grind some gears, stall out and in two weeks of constant driving you'll be just fine.

Not an expert by any means.... but just fine.

Take the plunge. I learned to drive manual in one day, if you can believe that.

Learning to drive stick on any US$30k car is probably a bad idea. Not a terrible idea...

That said, the RX-8 has a very good shifter feel. It's direct and gives excellent feed back. You'll become comfortable faster then driving some rubbery shifters in other cars.

And for uphill launches, if you are feeling nervous, try using the hand brake to hold the car as you ease off the clutch.

hey, i drove my 3000GT out of the lot and learned stick in the process...i must've driven stick 2-3 times prior and stalled it everytime, once in an Eclipse GS-X right when the light turned green and once in a Chevy Camaro while someone was trying to teach me to drive stick...i decided to pick up my car late at night so as to avoid any and all traffic...luckily i stalled it only once starting in 1st...i learned that you just gotta ride the clutch even if it sounds bad in order to get into first smoothly...the other gears never gave me any problems...

Just go for it! Maybe get someone to pick it up from the lot, so you can learn on you own quiet street, and not launch right out into traffic. If you are OK on an auto, you should be acceptable on a stick inside four hours. The '8' is a good car to learn on, in my view, because the shifter is so light & positive, if you learnt on a stick-shift ford truck you would never want to drive manual! Plus you would have to learn the feel of the Mazda box anyway, after that.
Any rotary needs a little more 'clutch&revs' than a typical piston, and you are not going to get that feel on anything else, so GoForIt!
S

when im on level ground i just let go of the clutch very slowly and it grabs then i step on the gas. Imstill new at manual i had an auto eclipse but i hate auto u dont feel like your driving.

learning manual is a lot easier than some people think it is. i was driving on surface streets the first day, and i've taught two of my friends to do the same in a day. you just need someone next to you giving you good instructions, and you'll be fine. if you have any friends that drive manual, and (this is important) they're good at explaining and teaching things, buy them lunch and have them teach you. trust me you'll be driving normally in no time. one advice from me that i always tell people when i teach them is that if you press down the clutch, you'll at least never stall.

If you've had the experience of a class and riding around in the tercel/2, then you should be fine to begin building on the 8. But what I wonder is, are you fine to learn on a brand new car period? What can riding the clutch excessively, prematurely releasing the clutch, stalling out, etc, do while the clutch, engine, and any other drivetrain components that need "breaking in" periods do?

I think most people will get the hang of driving a manual pretty quickly. It will probably take you a day to get going and a week or two to become smooth. Transmissions are tougher than you think. Just practice, practice, practice.

I learned the manual on a brand new car. I asked the salesman to drop it off at my house and then I spent the whole day practicing.

go get a manual transmission rental car for a week. make sure you pay the extra for the insurance. and just drive it as much as possible by the time the week is up you should be comfortable enough to drive the rx8. since it is a rental your dont have the hassle of doing all the paperwork with a used car and car insurance and junk. jmo

Originally posted by Phot3k
I can only imagine how nervous I would be if I had to drive a brand new manual RX-8 out of a downtown dealership back home during rush hour.

So don't pick it up during rush hour!

Seriously, don't sweat it. You pick it up really fast. I learned to drive (20 years ago!) on a manual transmission. At first I really freaked out every time I stalled or had trouble starting on a hill, but you learn quickly that it's gonna happen, and it no longer makes you so nervous.

Then again, I learned on a 1978 Honda Civic wagon, not a $30,000 sports car!
;)

my sister learned to drive a stick when she bought her first car. she really wanted this particular car but it was stick and she didn't know how. a guy we new that worked in the service deptartment told the sales guy " she wants to buy the car right? and you want to sell it to her right? so teach her how to drive the thing!" the salesmen took her out over the next few days until she was comfortable with it and i don't think she has had an automatic since and that was 15 years and five cars ago.

Originally posted by ibfubar2000
go get a manual transmission rental car for a week

Good idea. You might have to rent a compact. They look at me weird every time I ask whether they have a manual.

Originally posted by jtimbck2

Then again, I learned on a 1978 Honda Civic wagon, not a $30,000 sports car!
;)

Bingo! I learned on an AMC Gremlin many moons ago but I remember that I grinded the doo-doo outta those gears. I'd get that car stallin' and jerkin' so hard, but after a while, you get the rhythm (sp?) down and some confidence helps too. I'd try to find another car to learn on, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Great idea about the rental!!!!

I looked all over for a place that rented manual transmission cars. They are rather hard to come by. Try bumbing off your friends (buy them lunch if they'll drive you around for 2 hours first). It seriously takes only 2-4 hours of just starting and stopping to get the hang of it. Once the car is moving its pie.

I only have a couple days of good manual driving under my belt, but I am pretty confident in what I have learned. I also heard its like riding a bike. My dad hasn't driven a manual in maybe 30+ years and when we went test driving he was right back into it.

I imagine I will stall a couple times getting used to the engagement on the 8. Just drive it around the block a few times before you get on any major roads, and you should be fine.

You'll be fine. I learned manual on the Dodge Neon I had in college. When I sold the car 50,000 miles later, the tranny was still in great shape, and there was still plenty of life left in the clutch. The tranny in the 8 should be pretty stout, it's not gonna break because you learned how to drive stick on it.

as long as you don't grind the gears, the car will be fine. stalling...it is a little embarrassing at first, but who cares?

if the clutch of the 8 is a little heavy, such as the FD, then it might be a little harder to get a feel right away. but if it is light like the miata's....no problem.


santino

this will be my first car with manual too.

Originally posted by santino
if the clutch of the 8 is a little heavy, such as the FD, then it might be a little harder to get a feel right away. but if it is light like the miata's....no problem. Since the trannys have the same manufacturer, they may be very similar.

take off your shoes, it'll accelerate how quickly you learn where the "grab" point is.

WARNING: method is probably illegal in many jurisdictions

Manuals suck imo. Stalling, cluth problems and worn out clutches, etc. Argh. If you get auto, you never have any of these problems ever. Of course it will have problems but not as many as manuals.

Then you've obviously never owned a real performance car. I blew the guts out of 2 Supra TT autos in the space of 6 months. Torque converters? I destroyed one so badly it put a hole the size of a 50c piece in the side. The same motor with a manual behind it coped nicely.

There's no way you can justify an auto from an economy point of view. Autos:
1. Use more fuel
2. Generate more heat
3. Cost more to rebuild
4. More complicated = more to go wrong
5. Have more driveline losses

And thats aside from performance/safety issues.

As for stalling? :p You've got to be kidding. I've stalled once in about the last 5 years and that was because I hadnt done the idle fuel maps yet.

-pete

Ditto! The only catastrophic tranny failure i've had was a blown torque converter. At that point your car is now a 4000lb paperweight.

As a clutch fails, you get a pretty long period of slipping before it finally dies totally, and if you lose the ability to use the clutch (cable break, whatever) you can still shift gears (easy to do some damage here, but possible)

Environmentally and efficiency wise (amazing how those often go together) it just makes no sense to have an AT. It's very wasteful if you're just doing it for convenience. Now if you've got a physical issue . . . the AT can be very empowering.

Automatics are gay, I have one and everytime I drive I feel regret. Its so boring, push accelerator, push brake.... wow... might as well ride a taxi. This is my first manual transmission car also, but I am not afraid of learning on the car, warranties are great, plus I know mechanics, and might even replace the clutch in the near future with a much better one.

Originally posted by Efini 8
Automatics are gay, I have one and everytime I drive I feel regret. Its so boring, push accelerator, push brake.... wow... might as well ride a taxi. This is my first manual transmission car also, but I am not afraid of learning on the car, warranties are great, plus I know mechanics, and might even replace the clutch in the near future with a much better one.

You're cutting on auto but you've never even driven a manual? What are you, sixteen?

come on guys
this thread is not to cut on auto
is good/bad idea to learn manual on the 8

now my opinions:

if the 8 has a light clutch go for it
the 8 has relatively low torque and if it combines with a light clutch, it's no big deal as far as slippage goes
however, since it's lower in torque, for beginners, you might have to rev higher (reads: 2-2500 rpm) before easssssing the clutch out

it took me 1 wk to drive without stalling to and from work everyday and 2 wks before i can drive smoothly in traffics, but about 1-2 months before i am comfortable to negotiate the steepest hill (with a red light on top). That was my first manual car and even tho i've driven manual before, driving your own is a different story. For me, i wanted to learn manual and have been driving manual ever since. I must say, it's not for everyone and definitly not everyday even i like manual myself (traffic)

Point of references:
-Get use to the pedel feel, so that you can comfortablly feel the gas, and hold at certian range without looking at the tech
-Most "teacher" will say give more gas, but what's more gas? 2000 rpm is usually a good start
-EASE the clutch out, count to at least 3 before completely releasing the clutch
-When in doubt, clutch IN then brake
-On a slight incline, learn the sweet spot or fritcion zone of the clutch, don't look force yourself to use muscle memory to know the fritcion zone
-Stall in traffic? big deal, just know your re start sequence good, ebrake-clutch in, neutral, restart, 1st gear, ebrake out, sweetspot and gas
-Don't drive with your stereo on until you are comfortable in what you are doing, that goes for cell phone pls

Eventually you'll opt for heavier lutch :D
Good luck and go for it

Originally posted by Lex


You're cutting on auto but you've never even driven a manual? What are you, sixteen?

I've driven a manual. I am not sixteen, i am 18.

Originally posted by Lex


You're cutting on auto but you've never even driven a manual? What are you, sixteen?

i kinda take that as an insult... i learned to drive a stick when i was sixteen on a 98 corvette, yet i've never owned a manual myself. the rx8 will be my third car, and my first manual (i'm 18). some people don't have the time or car for that matter to learn the manual RIGHT as soon as they get their license. i mean come on, not every family has a manual car. thats just my take on the whole situation here...

Here in the UK almost everyone learns to drive in a manual car and people don't consider getting an automatic unless theya re (a) over 55 years old or (b) so bad a driver that they can't pass the test in a manual.

To answer the original posters question from what I've heard about the rotary engine (and reading the RX8 review on Rotarynews.com ) the technique for a smooth pull off in a rotary is not the same as other manual cars and takes a little practice to get it right so it may not be the best car 'to learn stick' as you like to put it!

Having driven several automatics and hundreds of different manuals I think that driving a manual is actually driving the car where as driving an automatic is not much more than pointing the car in the right direction and slowing down and speeding up as necessary - no fun at all.

I live in the Uk where the majority o f people drive manual. Personally the thought of taking delivery of an automatic rx8 would be to totally miss the point of what this car is about. It is a sports car designed to engage and excite the driver, an automatic would negate the cars purpose. Learn the manual, the car will be quicker, more involving and ten times more fun! Its the only way to get the most from the car.

Originally posted by jpalgrave
I live in the Uk where the majority o f people drive manual. Personally the thought of taking delivery of an automatic rx8 would be to totally miss the point of what this car is about. It is a sports car designed to engage and excite the driver, an automatic would negate the cars purpose. Learn the manual, the car will be quicker, more involving and ten times more fun! Its the only way to get the most from the car.

totally agree dude. Manual allows better control over the car and plus its a real driving experience, I love driving...even with an automatic, but a manual I know will make it paradise. My parents didnt want me to get a manual because they thought I would kill myself by street racing. Now that I am more mature, I feel I am responsible enough for a manual car (that sounds ridiculous) and will race, just on the track

The best way to learn to drive a stick is to go to this great website I found: http://www.learnstickshift.com. For $19.95 you can download a manual and an .mp3 file that you can burn to a CD that you can play in the car to teach you exactly how to drive a stick shift car. This course is great because it takes you through the process step by step. It is also a great way to teach others. WIth this course you will be driving a stick just fine within 30 - 45 minutes. And most importantly, you will be doing it correctly and error free.

Sorry, the link above has a period in it. Here is the right link:
http://www.learnstickshift.com

Guys,

Personally I'm all for the RX-8 manual. But last week I burned out the clutch on my beater and the transmission followed shortly after. I only had the car for a year, I'm sorta worried now because I thought I had the hang of manual. Words of advice and encouragement cause I really want to get the manual.

suggestion i got from a female truck driver was that men try to baby it too much and take way too long to allow the clutch to engage. that tends to burn out clutches faster (more slip = more wear). her opinion was to make sure you got off the clutch as soon as you could and probably faster than you think you should.

really goes to the concept of get the shift done and get your foot off the clutch. if you're either A) slipping it a lot, or B) leaving your foot on the clutch when not shifting you should expect a LOT of clutch wear. these are easy habits to get rid of though, and then your clutch should last a LONG time. I've yet to lose a clutch on a car I've owned. (Typically turn them over at about the 60K mile point). I also do not race, so can't speak to the conditions generated by that.

Or you could just shift without the clutch.... You only REALLY need it for startups and downshifts...

I've been a little worried about that too. Although I have never burned out a clutch, I have wondered if I could be shifting better. I was never really taught how to use a manual, I had to learn on my own.

Story time:

I was picking up an F150 (my current vehicle) from Kentucky, It was from my cousin's business and it was a semi-old work truck. (Lots of miles, lots of dents, but still ran good I was told). So I got a ride to Kentucky, found the truck and lo and behold, it was a manual. I had to learn how to drive it on my way back from Kentucky to Michigan. The only thing I knew about driving manuals was what my father had told me, "Let out the clutch smoothly while you step on the gas." I have had it now for three years and haven't burnt out the clutch so I guess I am doing something right.

I just hope I don't start burning clutches when I get my 8! :p

-JiM

Thanks guys,

I sort of taught myself two since my parents were leaving for a weekend and if I wanted to drive anywhere I had to learn a clutch. But, hopefully I make a lot of improvement when my 8 comes in taking your advice into consideration.

Keep in mind that the clutch is considered a "wear item". It is supposed to get used up at some point. The fact that the clutch on a beater that you got a year ago went does not mean that you did anything wrong, how long ago had the clutch been replaced. If the answer is never then don't worrry about it. My understanding is that most clutches will last 80 - 100K miles depending on how they are used/abused.

Just put a new engine in my son's Miata and had the clutch checked before putting it in. The guy at the repair shop tested it and said it still had 60% of its life left. Should be good for about 50K miles. If the car lasts 50K miles I will happily replace the clutch and go another 80K.

The amount of wear you will put on a manual tranny/clutch learning to drive it is nothing. You should be able to learn in under an hour in a parking lot somewhere and then improve your technique over the course of the next two weeks as you learn in different environments. After that it is a non issue. What percentage of wear are you going to do in the first two weeks of ownership? Maybe .001%.

Originally posted by Midnight Flyer
What percentage of wear are you going to do in the first two weeks of ownership? Maybe .001%.

Assuming an even distribution of wear over the entire life of the car if 0.001% is applied over the first 2 weeks that means the car will be in operation for
100000*2 weeks
= 1.4E6 days
= 3835.62 years

Maybe you put a conservative 10,000 miles on your car each year,
thats a nice 38,356,200 miles on your clutch. Happy driving.


:p :p :p :p :p :p :)

Don't cloud the issue with facts.

Originally posted by Midnight Flyer
Don't cloud the issue with facts.
LOL :D

Anyway, I learned on a friend's Camaro with a really badly messed up clutch and an engine like liked to stall if you turned the stearing wheel too much at idle (because of the engine was so badly hurting that the pressure of the power stearing pump was enough to stall it). God that car was in sad shape....

Anyway, I bought my next car as a stick and haven't changed back since. My 1st was a Firebird then a Camaro, now the RX-8. I've drive several other various MT cars and never had an issue, just have to get used to its clutch which really takes no time.

My current car is a '96 Z28 w/ 103k miles on it, original clutch, I've put about 50k of those miles on myself...it's starting to chatter, but I'm sure I can get the extra couple hundred miles before I hopefully take delivery of the RX-8. If I end up keeping the car I'll be changing the clutch very soon I'm sure.

I slip the clutch a little much (especially lately because it's engagement sucks as it, as I've said, needs replacing) and always have for smooth starts. However I've been generally complimented that I drive smoother than a lot of other MT drivers...maybe at the expense of my clutch life. I've heard, however, that the RX-8 may require a bit more RPM matching and higher reving to attain that same smoothness...again at the expense of clutch longevity. We'll see...it'll be a fun ride, and I'm sure even most seasoned MT veterns will have a small introductory session...so we're all in this together - be it our first time with a manual, or a returnning vet with a new engagement and gear box to get the hang of.

my friend is letting me watch his MR2 Turbo for a month, so I learned stick on it in like 10 minutes. I havent driven a stick in like 2.5 years and that time I hardly drove it. It is super fun. I thought it was very easy, but maybe it was because I knew what to do before I actually tried it physically. Only problem with this car is the clutch is a racing clutch and you have to push it all the way down and its rather difficult to engage it because its also a bitch to shift maybe cuz its an old car. However it is a fun car and definately helped me gain confidence when I start driving my rx8.

My current car (Volvo C70 T5 GT) puts about 245bhp through the front wheels and I'm still on the original clutch after almost 120k miles. Quick changes / starts and using the handbrake on hills ensures a long clutch life.