http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7411079/


Ah ha!!!!!

Expect a deafening silence from the Republicans who maintained the memo was a fake, circulated by those pesky Dems.

Oh yippee....we get to do this again.

Of course the Republicans said the Democrats did it. Duh.....

The individual responsible resigned.

And, as I have maintained in other threads, politicians can be devious and conniving at times.

I'm sure there has never been a Democrat who has used an on-going social issue/disaster/controversy to futher their message and agenda.

... I'm sure there has never been a Democrat who has used an on-going social issue/disaster/controversy to futher their message and agenda.
Ah, the "so's your old man" defense...a specialty of the right. :)

Oh yippee....we get to do this again.

Of course the Republicans said the Democrats did it. Duh.....

The individual responsible resigned.

And, as I have maintained in other threads, politicians can be devious and conniving at times.

I'm sure there has never been a Democrat who has used an on-going social issue/disaster/controversy to futher their message and agenda.


Worse than merely furthering an agenda...It's not like a prominant REPUBLICAN senator from MASS ever hit somebody with their car, and let them DIE...

Ah, the "so's your old man" defense...a specialty of the right. :)


seriously bro - you'd really enjoy political debates at http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/

Register...you can opine to your heart's content on a score of broad subject forums...

Tell em -=d=- sent ya ;)

If you do -make sure your skin is thick and your facts are in order, however...not all of them are as 'centrist' as I am.

:D

Ah, the "so's your old man" defense...a specialty of the right. :)

If you just didn't give us so much easy ammunition.

I like him right here, keeping us all honest.

If you just didn't give us so much easy ammunition.
It ain't the ammunition we give you, it's that you apparently lack any other form of defense. :)

It ain't the ammunition we give you, it's that you apparently lack any other form of defense. :)

Spoken from the person who started this thread with the all too informative and intelligent...

"Ah ha!!!!!!"

Seriously....nothing that anybody in ANY party does to further their career or the party agenda surprises me anymore.

It's fun to watch actually. There is hypocrisy on all sides. Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, etc. It's just the Republican's turn since Bush is still in office.

You really think that is Kerry would have won, you would see all pro-Kerry press?

Please. There would be just as much fault-finding and bashing with Kerry as their is with Bush.

I like him right here, keeping us all honest.


hehe...'honest' and 'far-left' idealogy....lol :)

;)

Worse than merely furthering an agenda...It's not like a prominant REPUBLICAN senator from MASS ever hit somebody with their car, and let them DIE...
Oh come now, D. Don't limit yourself to events of 30+ years ago. Where are the accusations about Senatory Byrd's membership in the KKK 60+ years ago? Neither has anything to do with the current thread, but don't let that stop you.

Call it the "so's your (very) old man defense." :)

Spoken from the person who started this thread with the all too informative and intelligent...

Ah ha!!!!!!
You know, buddy. You really need to work on your reading skills. I didn't start the thread, nor did I make the comment.

As an aside, why is it that it is so often necessary to suggest remedial reading to our friends on the right?

It ain't the ammunition we give you, it's that you apparently lack any other form of defense. :)


The problem is, whatever defense or evidence or anything anyone but you or Spider post will be quoted line-by-line and refuted.



I think the sky is blue today. Some clouds, however.


What are you talking about? that's such a lie
I think the sky
So you are saying YOU think the sky...as in "I think the sky, therefore it exists!"? What kind of far-right nut job are you!! That's the result of Christian Conservatives and their forcing beliefs upon society!
is blue today
BS - that's so not true. What about people on the OTHER side of the planet?? Typical - forcing YOUR reality on the rest of the world.
Some clouds, however
See right here - you contradict yourself! How can there be a cloudy blue sky? Stop your incessant lies and forcing your religious/political views down everyone's throats. You need to tolerate my belief in the weather....you biggot


;)

The problem is, whatever defense or evidence or anything anyone but you or Spider post will be quoted line-by-line and refuted.


;) Darin, I wouldn't accuse you of manufacturing quotes, but I have to say that none of the comments in your post came from me. I have no idea where they're from, but they aren't mine.

P.S. I assume the post was meant in the way of "humor." Can't say I find it very funny, but others might. I note this only because someone who doesn't get the "joke" might think the exchange quoted in your post bears some resemblance to anything I've ever said on this forum.

Oh come now, D. Don't limit yourself to events of 30+ years ago. Where are the accusations about Senatory Byrd's membership in the KKK 60+ years ago? Neither has anything to do with the current thread, but don't let that stop you.

Call it the "so's your (very) old man defense." :)


Here's the point. The larger point.

In the Galactic Sense this memo is 'not a big f'in deal'.

Killing somebody...an innocent, IS a big deal.

"The Right" is responsible for creating MORE human freedoms, and doing more 'universal' good...if you wanna get down to a pissin' match. The Right...won wars...freed slaves...created the country in which we reside. And...AND...the first daughters are ALWAYS hotter than those on the 'left'.

:)

You know, buddy. You really need to work on your reading skills. I didn't start the thread, nor did I make the comment.

As an aside, why is it that it is so often necessary to suggest remedial reading to our friends on the right?

I stand corrected. I could say that all that Democratic rambling from everybody starts to be amusing and in my excitment at adding to yet, another fun political thread I made a slight error.

But I won't. I have noticed in the past with the Democrats, and yes, as with the Republicans, admitting to a mistake is a foreign notion.

:p

Darin, I wouldn't accuse you of manufacturing quotes, but I have to say that none of the comments in your post came from me. I have no idea where they're from, but they aren't mine.


uh...I was posting that as 'an example' of what you enjoy doing :) ;) To illustrate my point.

not all of them are as 'centrist' as I am.Centrist??!! :eek:

uh...I was posting that as 'an example' of what you enjoy doing :) ;) To illustrate my point.

Once again, having to explain the "obvious."

No worries - they are used to it.


(I just couldn't resist that one)

Centrist??!! :eek:


:D I was hoping y'all would catch that....

I'm 'center-right'... :)

The problem is, whatever defense or evidence or anything anyone but you or Spider post will be quoted line-by-line and refuted.There is, of course, a reason for this--When fantasy is posted as fact, it is pretty easy to refute. We tend not to post fantasy as fact; our friends on the right tend to.

[QUOTE=GotZoom]Spoken from the person who started this thread with the all too informative and intelligent...

"Ah ha!!!!!!"

QUOTE]


Actually, I started the thread. If you can not get that fact right.........oh. Thats right. Far right. And facts. silly me. :p

[QUOTE=GotZoom]Spoken from the person who started this thread with the all too informative and intelligent...

"Ah ha!!!!!!"

QUOTE]


Actually, I started the thread. If you can not get that fact right.........oh. Thats right. Far right. And facts. silly me. :p

You are about six posts too late.

Come on..catch up with the rest of us.

...
"The Right" is responsible for creating MORE human freedoms, and doing more 'universal' good...if you wanna get down to a pissin' match. The Right...won wars...freed slaves...created the country in which we reside. And...AND...the first daughters are ALWAYS hotter than those on the 'left'.

:)
A bit off-topic but I couldn't resist. Not sure what "human freedoms" the right has ever championed (other than the debatable "rights of fetuses.") Feel free to cite some. The right opposed women's suffrage, civil rights legislation, the rights of labor to organize, etc. etc. etc.

As for "war won," I think you'd have to note that the "right" in the United States strongly opposed both actions to aid the allies in both WWI and WWII, wars fought and won under (relatively) "leftist" administrations. "Freed slaves"??? Sorry, buddy. The abolitionist movement was the far left of 19th century politics. The "right" opposed the war, ran a candidate in 1864 who promised to negotiate with the South, in 1877 ended reconstruction, and enacted Jim Crow laws in the South.

I'll give you some of the credit for "creating the country in which we reside," but that contribution was most forcefully represented by the 3/5 compromise on slavery, the indirect election of Senators, and the electoral college. (Two down, one to go.)

Personally, I'm not all that attracted to the Doublemint Twins, but to each his own.

You are about six posts too late.

Come on..catch up with the rest of us.
Ah, now the defense is "that's old news."

There is, of course, a reason for this--When fantasy is posted as fact, it is pretty easy to refute. We tend not to post fantasy as fact; our friends on the right tend to.


Translation:

"No...YOU ARE!"

hehe

Here's the point. The larger point.

In the Galactic Sense this memo is 'not a big f'in deal'.One of my favorite things about the right is how they make such a big deal out of everything everyone else does, but this is no big deal.

Killing somebody...an innocent, IS a big deal.Sure is. Killing tens of thousands of them is, too, along with over 1500 American soldiers killed and thousands more maimed.

"The Right" is responsible for creating MORE human freedoms, and doing more 'universal' good...if you wanna get down to a pissin' match.I'd be curious to know some of the "human freedoms" created by the right. Last time I looked, the right's agenda always seemed to include efforts to cut back on freedoms--defeat the ERA (can't have women getting equal rights!); defeat civil rights legislation; ban flag burning (can't have political expression when we don't agree with it!); ban gay marriage (can't have those people having rights!).

The Right...won warsAnd all this time I thought that the military won wars. :rolleyes: The right tends to start wars, though, I'll grant you that.

...freed slaves...Surely you jest!! Have you heard of the Civil War? The rebels were the "right" in that one. The right freed no slaves. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, but considered a dangerous liberal. Gawd, next you'll be claiming that Washington, Jefferson et al. were right wing! :eek:


created the country in which we reside.You do have a rich fantasy life, don't you. Just curious--How do you figure that Washington, Jefferson, et al. were "right wing?"

And...AND...the first daughters are ALWAYS hotter than those on the 'left'.Could be. They're certainly more irresponsible.

:)

"The Right" is responsible for creating MORE human freedoms, and doing more 'universal' good...if you wanna get down to a pissin' match. The Right...won wars...freed slaves...created the country in which we reside. And...AND...the first daughters are ALWAYS hotter than those on the 'left'.

:)

What "right" are you talking about. The Democratic-Republican party that stopped slavery, and later split into modern day factions? The preservation of individual rights, especially in the social context, like free speech, is a right wing idea? So the right wing gets credit for all the good of the pro-slavery founding fathers on their side, and freeing the slaves?

Hey dmp - isn't this fun?

Here's the point. The larger point.

In the Galactic Sense this memo is 'not a big f'in deal'.

Killing somebody...an innocent, IS a big deal.

"The Right" is responsible for creating MORE human freedoms, and doing more 'universal' good...if you wanna get down to a pissin' match. The Right...won wars...freed slaves...created the country in which we reside. And...AND...the first daughters are ALWAYS hotter than those on the 'left'.

:)

Hey dmp - isn't this fun?

Fantasy is almost always fun; the richer the fantasy, the greater the fun, I guess, and dmp's post was among the richest fantasies I've read.

Gosh, you guys beat me. But rather then wait for dmp to say something else ridiculous I'll toss mine into the fire.

"The Right" is responsible for creating MORE human freedoms, and doing more 'universal' good...if you wanna get down to a pissin' match. The Right...won wars...freed slaves...created the country in which we reside.

Let's look at this a little bit. First, Lincoln, while a Republican, was definately not from "the right," if anything, for his day he was a leftist. The figures on the "right" at the time were people such as jefferson davis. Also, which war has the right won? I remember FDR, and Truman winning WWII, Wilson winning WWI, etc.

Also, the founding fathers were far from the right. They were radicals of their time. Some, the antifederalists, wanted the country to be further to the right then others, others, such as the federalists wanted the country to be further to the left. Others, such as Ben Franklin, could care less, as long as Britain stopped putting soldiers in his living room. They came up with very leftist ideas, such as a free press and freedom of speech. They came up with more conservative ideas, such as states rights and small central government(both of which seem to have been abandoned by the republican party of recent.)

You can't stop these guys..you can only hope to contain them...

...

Also, the founding fathers were far from the right. They were radicals of their time. Some, the antifederalists, wanted the country to be further to the right then others, others, such as the federalists wanted the country to be further to the left. Others, such as Ben Franklin, could care less, as long as Britain stopped putting soldiers in his living room. They came up with very leftist ideas, such as a free press and freedom of speech. They came up with more conservative ideas, such as states rights and small central government(both of which seem to have been abandoned by the republican party of recent.)
You're correct, of course. I was giving the "right" the benefit of the doubt by noting the contributions of the more conservative of the revolutionaries to the Constitution.

In fact, the right at the time of the American Revolution were the tories. Fortunately, they lost.

"The Right" is responsible for creating MORE human freedoms, and doing more 'universal' good...if you wanna get down to a pissin' match. The Right...won wars...freed slaves...created the country in which we reside.
:)

well actually ww2, ww1, the new deal, panama canal, civil rights movements were actually 'won' by liberals and the country we created was created by liberals, conservatives of the time were mostly loyalist. ;)

Back to the original content of this thread, the notorious "memo" was penned by a "senior staff member" in Senator Mel Martinez' office. The staffer quit after Senator Martinez was quick to push the blame onto him.

Interestingly, this pattern is not new for the freshman Senator from Florida. The following is an excerpt from the St. Pete Times editorial following Martinez' election in November.

"...Long after leaving Republicans embittered by his appeals to bigotry and his vulgar attacks on former U.S. Rep. Bill McCollum, Martinez used his general election campaign to tar Castor, a distinguished former legislator and education leader, as a terrorist sympathizer. When challenged, Martinez was too eager to assign blame to his staff or to groups he said he couldn't control. As a senator, he will need an office and a staff that speaks with the measured and centrist tone he says will be his own. He can't pretend to be above it all if the people he employs are not."

OOPS.

There is, of course, a reason for this--When fantasy is posted as fact, it is pretty easy to refute. We tend not to post fantasy as fact; our friends on the right tend to.
"The Right" is responsible for creating MORE human freedoms, and doing more 'universal' good...if you wanna get down to a pissin' match. The Right...won wars...freed slaves...created the country in which we reside.
Quod erat demonstrandum.

Back to the original content of this thread, the notorious "memo" was penned by a "senior staff member" in Senator Mel Martinez' office. The staffer quit after Senator Martinez was quick to push the blame onto him.

Interestingly, this pattern is not new for the freshman Senator from Florida. The following is an excerpt from the St. Pete Times editorial following Martinez' election in November.

"...Long after leaving Republicans embittered by his appeals to bigotry and his vulgar attacks on former U.S. Rep. Bill McCollum, Martinez used his general election campaign to tar Castor, a distinguished former legislator and education leader, as a terrorist sympathizer. When challenged, Martinez was too eager to assign blame to his staff or to groups he said he couldn't control. As a senator, he will need an office and a staff that speaks with the measured and centrist tone he says will be his own. He can't pretend to be above it all if the people he employs are not."

OOPS.


Ummm...you aren't doing things that you accused me and dmp of doing are you?

Let's see...

"Old News" ???

Nahhh......

Quod erat demonstrandum.



That would have been cool except NoMoreOldsmobiles used it a couple days ago.


lol :)

That would have been cool except NoMoreOldsmobiles used it a couple days ago.


lol :)

He couldn't say:

"Animadverto , EGO narro Latin"

He didn't want to sound conceited.

Ummm...you aren't doing things that you accused me and dmp of doing are you?

Let's see...

"Old News" ???

Nahhh...... Buddy, you really need to step up to the plate here. There's a difference between dragging up an incident that occurred thirty years ago involving a different set of actors and an editorial citing behavior of the same Senator from five months ago.

Now I realize that Bush suppoters have long memories only when it comes to Kennedy, Clinton, and Byrd, but really, this one was only a few months ago. Long past the Republican amnesia associated with WMD's, pre-9/11 security lapses, promises of economic expansion from the 2001 tax cuts, and GWB's long forgotten promises to be an environmental activist in the 2000 campaign.

Let's see. How about a retention course to go along with remedial reading.

Let's look at this a little bit. First, Lincoln, while a Republican, was definately not from "the right," if anything, for his day he was a leftist. The figures on the "right" at the time were people such as jefferson davis. Also, which war has the right won? I remember FDR, and Truman winning WWII, Wilson winning WWI, etc.

Also, the founding fathers were far from the right. They were radicals of their time. Some, the antifederalists, wanted the country to be further to the right then others, others, such as the federalists wanted the country to be further to the left. Others, such as Ben Franklin, could care less, as long as Britain stopped putting soldiers in his living room. They came up with very leftist ideas, such as a free press and freedom of speech. They came up with more conservative ideas, such as states rights and small central government(both of which seem to have been abandoned by the republican party of recent.)


First, there's the fallacy of "left" and "right," which have meant different things in different eras. You can't just say that Jefferson Davis was a "rightist" and Lincoln was a "leftist." Frankly, Lincoln's policies in the North during the darker days of the Civil War were very statist; he suspended habeus corpus, declared martial law, and jailed people for months on end - upending the Constitution in order to uphold it. One may argue that Lincoln's view on slavery was "left" or "liberal" for the time, but Lincoln did not start the war to free slaves; he issued the Emancipation Proclamation after a major victory against the South to swing European public opinion to his side.

Which wars have the "Right" won? Grenada, Panama, Gulf War I, Iraq, Afghanistan, and most notably, the Cold War. And mad props to FDR - he had the balls to stand alongside the UK and fight against Nazism and Japanese totalitarianism.

The Founding Fathers were primarily motivated by individual liberty and self-government. They believed in individuals determining their own destiny, small, decentralized government, and capitalism. Now you tell me which party today stand for that. I say that the Republicans are much closer to that ideal (though certainly not there yet).

The Founding Fathers were primarily motivated by individual liberty and self-government. They believed in individuals determining their own destiny, small, decentralized government, and capitalism. Now you tell me which party today stand for that. I say that the Republicans are much closer to that ideal (though certainly not there yet).

yeah i think the republicans are gonna have to downsize the government quite a bit before i will agree however i cant help myself ;) that philosophy you mentioned is us libertarians to a T. :D (jsh chew me out on the libertarian stuff plz ;) )

That would have been cool except NoMoreOldsmobiles used it a couple days ago.Actually, I know that. Every once in a while, a right-winger says something intelligent, and it's worth celebrating when that happens, by re-using the quote when possible. :) Besides, I was a mathematician in a previous life, so I have a perpetual license to use the phrase. :p

yeah i think the republicans are gonna have to downsize the government quite a bit before i will agree however i cant help myself ;) that philosophy you mentioned is us libertarians to a T. :D (jsh chew me out on the libertarian stuff plz ;) )
Nah, I have a soft spot for libertarians, though as was once said about another political tendency, it's something of an "adolescent disorder." On civil liberties, however, I'm right in bed with 'em. ;)

Which wars have the "Right" won? Grenada, Panama, Gulf War I, Iraq, AfghanistanIt's like the drunk shooting elephants on the Fifth Avenue bus; when another passenger points out that there are no elephants on Fifth Avenue, the drunk takes credit for being a good shot. The right wing starts their stupid little wars, against non-existent military powers, often for bogus reasons, and claims to have accomplished great things when the opposition rolls over and dies.

And it might be a wee bit too early to claim "victory" in Iraq; I know that your fearless leader (well, fearless as long as his butt isn't on the line) declared "mission accomplished" over a year (and 1000 dead Americans) ago, but that actually doesn't make it so.
, and most notably, the Cold War.I love how the right wing claims credit for that; others claim John Paul II defeated Communism; I suppose there's enough credit to go around, but it is the height of fantasy for any one view to claim the credit exclusively.

And mad props to FDR - he had the balls to stand alongside the UK and fight against Nazism and Japanese totalitarianism.It might be worth noting that FDR was not exactly "right wing," and the Fascists, Nazis and Japanese were.

The Founding Fathers were primarily motivated by individual liberty and self-government. They believed in individuals determining their own destiny, small, decentralized government, and capitalism. Now you tell me which party today stand for that. I say that the Republicans are much closer to that ideal (though certainly not there yet).The Republicans generally, and this administration specifically, are remarkable opposed to individual liberty, the rule of law, and the separation of powers. And the federal government, and its intrusion into the lives of individual citizens, always grows out of control during Republican administrations, so it is odd, to say the least, for a right winger to claim to be in favor of small government. The fantasy continues, and grows....

First, there's the fallacy of "left" and "right," which have meant different things in different eras. You can't just say that Jefferson Davis was a "rightist" and Lincoln was a "leftist." Frankly, Lincoln's policies in the North during the darker days of the Civil War were very statist; he suspended habeus corpus, declared martial law, and jailed people for months on end - upending the Constitution in order to uphold it. One may argue that Lincoln's view on slavery was "left" or "liberal" for the time, but Lincoln did not start the war to free slaves; he issued the Emancipation Proclamation after a major victory against the South to swing European public opinion to his side.
Something of a mishmash of points above. You're certainly correct that application of a conventional "left-right" axis to different eras is fraught with pitfalls. And you're also correct that the original war aims enunciated by Lincoln did not extend to full emancipation. However, to argue that Lincoln's objective in issuing the Emancipation Proclamation was to "swing European public opinion" is hardly persuasive. Not only was "public opinion" nowhere near as significant a factor in the 1860's, to argue that European opinion was decisive in Lincoln's actions is simply silly.

Furthermore, your original contention was the "the right" "freed the slaves." Obviously, you've now backed off in light of the obvious problems with such a contention.

Which wars have the "Right" won? Grenada, Panama, Gulf War I, Iraq, Afghanistan, and most notably, the Cold War. And mad props to FDR - he had the balls to stand alongside the UK and fight against Nazism and Japanese totalitarianism.
Actually, it's fallacious to argue that either "right" or "left" won/lost wars. That job is done, as I'm sure you'll agree, by a military that does the dirty work.

What does seem fairly consistent is that America's imperialist adventures have largely been supported by the political right in American politics from the Mexican war through Iraq. The most notable exception to that generalization was US involvement in Vietnam. But since Johnson derived his greatest support from Republicans and was forced to leave office by the left in his own party, even that is a more a qualification than an exception.

The Founding Fathers were primarily motivated by individual liberty and self-government. They believed in individuals determining their own destiny, small, decentralized government, and capitalism. Now you tell me which party today stand for that. I say that the Republicans are much closer to that ideal (though certainly not there yet).
Well, the Founding Fathers were motivated by many things and their motivations varied considerably. Alexander Hamilton, arguably the father of the American "right" was hardly motivated by "small, decentralized government." (He wanted to crown Washington, King George I.) And while Hamilton was an ardent "capitalist," he was both fairly lonely in that commitment and strongly favored government subsidies of capitalist enterprises.

In fact, many of the "small government" types were planters whose support for "small government" reflected the fact that they controlled the "small governments" of their respective states.

Wow, we need a "yawn" smily. Better yet, we need every post that evolves into right-wing-vs-left-wing to be closed with a "FAQ" style list of every previous, nearly identical "discussion". Please note, I am not volunteering to compile such a list.

Wow, we need a "yawn" smily. Better yet, we need every post that evolves into right-wing-vs-left-wing to be closed with a "FAQ" style list of every previous, nearly identical "discussion". Please note, I am not volunteering to compile such a list.

Ditto...if you go back to the very beginning of this thread you will notice I said...

Oh yippee....we get to do this again.

Yawn.

If it bores you why you doing it??

Wow, we need a "yawn" smily. Better yet, we need every post that evolves into right-wing-vs-left-wing to be closed with a "FAQ" style list of every previous, nearly identical "discussion". Please note, I am not volunteering to compile such a list.Best post yet in this thread.

Can we add this map to the FAQ too?

Wow, we need a "yawn" smily. Better yet, we need every post that evolves into right-wing-vs-left-wing to be closed with a "FAQ" style list of every previous, nearly identical "discussion". Please note, I am not volunteering to compile such a list.

LOL :cool:

First, there's the fallacy of "left" and "right," which have meant different things in different eras. You can't just say that Jefferson Davis was a "rightist" and Lincoln was a "leftist." Frankly, Lincoln's policies in the North during the darker days of the Civil War were very statist; he suspended habeus corpus, declared martial law, and jailed people for months on end - upending the Constitution in order to uphold it. One may argue that Lincoln's view on slavery was "left" or "liberal" for the time, but Lincoln did not start the war to free slaves; he issued the Emancipation Proclamation after a major victory against the South to swing European public opinion to his side.

Which wars have the "Right" won? Grenada, Panama, Gulf War I, Iraq, Afghanistan, and most notably, the Cold War. And mad props to FDR - he had the balls to stand alongside the UK and fight against Nazism and Japanese totalitarianism.

The Founding Fathers were primarily motivated by individual liberty and self-government. They believed in individuals determining their own destiny, small, decentralized government, and capitalism. Now you tell me which party today stand for that. I say that the Republicans are much closer to that ideal (though certainly not there yet).


I am sorry, but the Republicans are increasing the size of the Gov't dramaticlly.

Wow, we need a "yawn" smily.

while this would appear to be a right wing sentiment i'm not sure why you feel a smily would resolve the events of shiavo-gate. this smells like "old news"


Better yet, we need every post that evolves into right-wing-vs-left-wing to be closed with a "FAQ" style list of every previous, nearly identical "discussion". Please note, I am not volunteering to compile such a list.

ah yes another republican rambling. no facts just trying to build some castles in the sky. i suggest you go back and studdy your history lessons buddy start with the abolition movement, free soil party, dred scott case and kansas-nebraska act. ;)

:D :D :D ^^^

while this would appear to be a right wing sentiment i'm not sure why you feel a smily would resolve the events of shiavo-gate. this smells like "old news"



ah yes another republican rambling. no facts just trying to build some castles in the sky. i suggest you go back and studdy your history lessons buddy start with the abolition movement, free soil party, dred scott case and kansas-nebraska act. ;)


Oh gosh!! Mocking is the highest form ao flattery, is it not?

'Cuse I get mocked a lot here...I like to think is is because of everyones high opinion of me... :rolleyes:

Now, now, buddy.....you obviously haven't been paying attention. I know reading comprehehsion isn't one of your strong suits, but fortunately I have enough education for the both of us, if only you don't fall asleep during one of my drawn-out soliloquys.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!

Even a Republican can understand that! :D ;) :D

Can we add this map to the FAQ too?

Looks like a lot of blue down there along the Rio Grande, Doc. Better send in the Texas Rangers. ;)

Wow, we need a "yawn" smily. Better yet, we need every post that evolves into right-wing-vs-left-wing to be closed with a "FAQ" style list of every previous, nearly identical "discussion". Please note, I am not volunteering to compile such a list.It certainly is becoming an amusing trend in the right wing "arguments." Let's see.... First they make utterly absurd assertions, assuming, I suppose, that others actually will accept these fantasies as fact. Then, when they get appropriately nailed for the absurd statements, they feign boredom. :rolleyes:

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!I guess that this is one way to avoid misstatements--say even less of substance, and take more space saying it, than normal. I like this new, eloquent, Doc.

Amazing how much is written on this memo and meanwhile folks are silent that a great country of ours killed an innocent woman who had nothing wrong with her except a disabled brain. I guess when any of us can no longer work from pain, a disease or a brain malfunction, we can know that we don't need a written statement but rather the courts will listen to someone else possibly related because you are a fly in their ointment and they want you dead.

^ silent? did you not read klegg's thread on this?

Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy have now been invoked. Clinton's on the way, and well he should be: Everything bad that's ever happened in the world is the fault of the Clenis©. I explained it all nearly a year ago.

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=382211&postcount=1237

Amazing how much is written on this memo and meanwhile folks are silent that a great country of ours killed an innocent woman who had nothing wrong with her except a disabled brain. I guess when any of us can no longer work from pain, a disease or a brain malfunction, we can know that we don't need a written statement but rather the courts will listen to someone else possibly related because you are a fly in their ointment and they want you dead.A remarkable number of misstatements in so few words.

The rule of law, and separation of powers, actually still mean something in this country, despite the Bush administration's best efforts to change that. This case was heard in many, many courts, which decided in favor of removing artificial life support, in accordance with the evidence presented and applicable law. Politicians, in many cases for partisan political gain, intervened, and found, to their dismay, that the rule of law and the separation of powers still apply.

Your "restatement" of the case is absurd.

Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy have now been invoked. Clinton's on the way, and well he should be: Everything bad that's ever happened in the world is the fault of the Clenis©. I explained it all nearly a year ago.

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=382211&postcount=1237At least they haven't brought up Jimmy Carter yet. :rolleyes:

Which wars have the "Right" won? Grenada, Panama, Gulf War I, Iraq, Afghanistan, and most notably, the Cold War. And mad props to FDR - he had the balls to stand alongside the UK and fight against Nazism and Japanese totalitarianism

I always get to the party late these days. I should spend less time working. But, starting with the big one, the cold war. In my mind the three largest people responsible for the end of the cold war are Pope John Paul II, Truman, and Gorbachev. No republican comes close to their contribution. In fact the much touted contribution of Reagan was continuing the Truman doctrine, which might have hastened the fall of communism by about a day. In my mind, however, his unwillingness to work with Gorbachev prolonged the cold war more then Reagan's other policies shortened it. Also, we had a unique opportunity under Reagan and Bush to form a new marshall plan. To aid in the rebuilding of Russia and gain a powerful ally. But instead we abandoned them.


As far as Iraq and Afghanistan, at least wait until the conflict is over before you declare victory. Winning, to me at least, means there is a tangible positive outcome. I think we have seen the opposite out of Iraq, which has become a breeding ground and safe haven for terrorists. But we will see, perhaps once the conflict is over we will reap tangible benefits, and the poor planning, poor intelligence, and poor execution will pay off.

Some people would disagree with you, as far as who should claim victory for the Gulf War :D
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/01/17/iraq.hussein/


I hardly see Grenada as a war to end all wars. Also, it was not without it's problems. The witchhunts that resulted, ransacking the ecumenical center, holding people without charging them, expelling the doctors, teachers, and other foreigners, etc. I suppose you could call it a victory, if the ends justify the means.


As far as Panama, the point of the war, if you recall was to disrupt the illicit durg traffic in Latin America. That didn't happen.

If you want to point to a successful war by a right wing president you would be better off claiming the war of 1812. Of course then you would have to appropriate James Madison, which you guys seem to be quite adept at.

I always get to the party late these days. I should spend less time working. But, starting with the big one, the cold war. In my mind the three largest people responsible for the end of the cold war are Pope John Paul II, Truman, and Gorbachev. No republican comes close to their contribution. In fact the much touted contribution of Reagan was continuing the Truman doctrine, which might have hastened the fall of communism by about a day. In my mind, however, his unwillingness to work with Gorbachev prolonged the cold war more then Reagan's other policies shortened it. Also, we had a unique opportunity under Reagan and Bush to form a new marshall plan. To aid in the rebuilding of Russia and gain a powerful ally. But instead we abandoned them.

Yup. And if you've arrived at the party late this week, better that than never.