Just saw it, will be on again on TNN at 12:30 Eastern Sunday.

Any info will be appreciated

Well, it was the tv version of the magazine test from last month. It was about 10 minutes long. Basically, they preferred the EVO, but said it was close. They took them to the Streets of Willow Road Course where the EVO won by 2/10 of a second and then Rod Millen a former rally race car driver took it on a rally course where the EVO won again.

Other things:

They liked the STi's interior and thought the EVO's was cheap.
The STI did 0-60 in 4.6 seconds while the EVO got 5 seconds flat.
The STI did 72.5 mph through the emergency lane change test while the EVO got 71.5 mph.
The EVO was more comfortable at the limit while the STI understeered more.

Overall, two close cars with the decison probobly based on personal preference. However, the show was mostly a rehash of the article, but it was cool to see the footage.

The Evo has won every comparo I've seen between the two. Seems like the Evo handles a little better, while the STi accelerates a little faster and has a better interior. The Evo is the better overal performer, while the STi is easier to live with day to day.

I guess it comes down to what is most important to the driver.

i just don't trust the 4g63 engine at 19psi. I'd rather take the scooby ej25 at 15-16psi. Not to mention that hood scoop that looks like it swallows small children :D

Originally posted by Farsyde
Not to mention that hood scoop that looks like it swallows small children :D One of our local autocross members took delivery of his new STI recently. He reckons when he went outside to get in the car on the first day, he found several people huddled inside the hood scoop waiting for the bus. ;)

Originally posted by Farsyde
i just don't trust the 4g63 engine at 19psi. I'd rather take the scooby ej25 at 15-16psi. Not to mention that hood scoop that looks like it swallows small children :D

Sti is boosted to 14.5psi max... imagine getting an aftermarket boost controller and increasing that!!

Originally posted by neit_jnf


Sti is boosted to 14.5psi max... imagine getting an aftermarket boost controller and increasing that!!

thats why this is such a crazy car. The wrx has been safely boosted to 300whp. Imagine the STI at 400-450whp with maybe a FMIC and boost controller. Maybe a new ECU too. But altogether only about $1500-2000

I don't think you can simply compare boost levels (19psi vs 14.5psi) like that. I don't own either the STi or Evo , but I have a friend that owns an Eclipse, so I might be slightly biased. But, my friend's 4G63 has been holding 20psi as a daily driver for ~100k miles already and there's been no problems. Plus I believe that the Evo's 4G63 is more built-up to and is stronger than the one in the Eclipse, so 20psi should be no problem on the Evo. Also I believe the 4G63 is an iron block with a closed deck. The STi's is an aluminum block with a semi closed deck. Now which do you think is stronger? Also, I've been reading about stock STi's pinging already without any mods done already. So I don't really think that one can just turn the boost up on the STi to get huge power. It may not be as durable. Noone knows yet. Also I read on the STi and Evo boards, that the STi turbo is smaller and is almost at max right now. Whereas the 16g in the Evo still has room to go.

im biased in the other direction. After being stranded in 2 eclipses for hours, i've just lost patience with the car. The problem i see with the Evo is a few things. As i have no experience with them this is only an opinion. First the price. It is about 2000-3000 bux overpriced. Second, the styling. Now i know the STI is about in the same class here, but the STI has some better curves and also that hood scoop is sweet! The interior i have heard from many people is just dodge neon cheap. For a 30k car there really should be more to it.

Now on to why i like the STI. It just looks mean as hell. The scoop just says that it means business. I know it is an alluminum block but so has every other wrx and the old 2.5 RS's for that matter. People have been boosting the shit outta those for years as well. Whether it has the same limits as the 4g63 is debatable though. The extra 2000-3000 for the STI does give you more performance for the money (at least power that is). Since i've been, and will have drivin my protege for 5+ years when i get my next car and it only has 100 hampster power, performance is definately an issue.

Anyhow i would be lucky to own either car. But i think i'm gonna wait for that rx-7 rerelease in the next couple years.

Here's my take:

Looks: They're equaly gaudy.

Performance: The Evo has the clear edge in handling, while the STi has more power. I've heard the STi just needs stiffer suspension, but that would make it more of a pain to drive on our crappy roads. But if you wanted to do that, it would be less expensive to upgrade the STi's suspension than to get the Evo up to the STi's power.

Everyday Usefulness: Pretty equal there, except that the STi's slightly softer suspension makes it a little easyer to live with.

Interior: Both cars offer M3 level performance for roughly $30K. They had to compromise SOMEWHERE! Quit'cher damned whining!

Originally posted by Schneegz
Interior: Both cars offer M3 level performance for roughly $30K. They had to compromise SOMEWHERE! Quit'cher damned whining!

Hahahaha yeah i'm whining. I know i can't have my cake and eat it too. I just wish the stupid country ass dealerships would get either the Evo or the Sti in so i could test drive em. Yet another reason to hate this town.

I wouldn't say M3 style performance.. there's quite a bit of difference between RWD and AWD. Both have pluses and minuses but I find RWD more fun to drive :)

There is no doubt that the M3 is more refined than the "pocket rockets". It should be. It's in the $50K range. More fun to drive? Probably. But those are not performance figures. "Refined" and "fun to drive" are subjective qualities. They can not be measured, analyzed and boiled down to a set of numbers. By "performance" I'm talking about just that, numbers. And the numbers show that the Evo and the STi are very close to cars that are twice as expensive and more.

As for AWD being necessarily less fun that RWD; I disagree. These cars are entirely capable of oversteer, drifting and throttle steering through a corner. The STi can even be set to varying torque splits from 50/50, to 35 front/65 rear.

I don't see AWD as a detriment at all, except for the extra weight. And in the real world, when weather conditions go bad, as they often do here in the North West, AWD is a huge advantage.

Originally posted by Hercules
I wouldn't say M3 style performance.. there's quite a bit of difference between RWD and AWD. Both have pluses and minuses but I find RWD more fun to drive :)

We gotta get you a test drive in an EVO. :) I know of a dealer in NJ where you can get one.

I think I'd like it but as soon as I got out of the car... I'd start listing complaints.

I'd likely enjoy the new Audi S4 more for an AWD experience. Not as fast, sure... but I can live in the interior and the suspension won't destroy my kidneys.

That's what we are supposed to do...obsess (and nitpick) cars! Maywood Mitsubishi let me test drive it with no questions or hassles.

Originally posted by Farsyde
i just don't trust the 4g63 engine at 19psi. I'd rather take the scooby ej25 at 15-16psi. Not to mention that hood scoop that looks like it swallows small children :D

So you know the engine code and the max boost but you don't know the engine. The 4g63 has been around for the last 10-15 years. There are countless Eclipse/Talon/Lazers in the 11's, 10's, and a few in the 9's. Currently there are 3+ EVO VIII's that have 360+ wheel hp (from 220 stock) with the only mods being: exhaust, intake, intercooler, air/fuel ratio controler, boost controler, and cams (one of these is running 11.8 1/4 with NOS).

The only problem with the ej25 in the STi is that it's a new engine. So it's potential is unknown. Right now it's a little disconcerning that quite a few have detonation. On paper it looks wonderful so we'll have to wait and see it's potential.

Also, there is more to a turbo than just PSI. There is also CFM (cubic feet per minute) and efficiency. A turbo in it's efficiency range won't add much heat to the air, once outside of this efficiency range and it will add too much heat and the car will start to detonate. From what I've read from the tuners, the STi's turbo max's out around 17-18 PSI. The EVO's max is around 22 PSI. Just because the EVO is running 19.5 PSI (only at 3500) does not mean that it's outside of it efficiency range.

Originally posted by revhappy


We gotta get you a test drive in an EVO. :) I know of a dealer in NJ where you can get one.

If we get him in an EVO the same might happen that happened to us....he may buy one.

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat


If we get him in an EVO the same might happen that happened to us....he may buy one. No, that will never happen.

I think the Evo is a good car and probably a lot of fun, but I am also a person with common sense and I realize before driving it, that the lack of interior appointmnents and creature comforts will quickly make me run, not walk away from this car.

Besides as I've said... I am not a big fan of AWD. This car just has obscene power and AWD and handles really well.. but you can't do the stupid things you can in a RWD car :)

Originally posted by Hercules
No, that will never happen.

I think the Evo is a good car and probably a lot of fun, but I am also a person with common sense and I realize before driving it, that the lack of interior appointmnents and creature comforts will quickly make me run, not walk away from this car.

Besides as I've said... I am not a big fan of AWD. This car just has obscene power and AWD and handles really well.. but you can't do the stupid things you can in a RWD car :)

Hmm....ever see the WRC?? :D

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat


If we get him in an EVO the same might happen that happened to us....he may buy one.

Well..almost for me...i haven't bought it yet. Still on a waitlist for a garage in my apartment complex. :mad:

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat


So you know the engine code and the max boost but you don't know the engine. The 4g63 has been around for the last 10-15 years. There are countless Eclipse/Talon/Lazers in the 11's, 10's, and a few in the 9's. Currently there are 3+ EVO VIII's that have 360+ wheel hp (from 220 stock) with the only mods being: exhaust, intake, intercooler, air/fuel ratio controler, boost controler, and cams (one of these is running 11.8 1/4 with NOS).


i am aware of the 4g63 heritage. Maybe reread my post above; i am not intimately familiar w/ the engine i am familiar with it's problems. It may have amazing potential and i don't doubt that they can last forever.

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat

The only problem with the ej25 in the STi is that it's a new engine. So it's potential is unknown. Right now it's a little disconcerning that quite a few have detonation. On paper it looks wonderful so we'll have to wait and see it's potential.


the ej25 isn't as new as you think. It was released in '95 which makes it 8+ years old. Lower compression pistons could elimitate the detonation problem and a proper FMIC could also help.

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat


Also, there is more to a turbo than just PSI. There is also CFM (cubic feet per minute) and efficiency. A turbo in it's efficiency range won't add much heat to the air, once outside of this efficiency range and it will add too much heat and the car will start to detonate. From what I've read from the tuners, the STi's turbo max's out around 17-18 PSI. The EVO's max is around 22 PSI. Just because the EVO is running 19.5 PSI (only at 3500) does not mean that it's outside of it efficiency range.

i understand the basic mechanics of turbo's. And i don't have a problem with the boost levels of either car. Still i don't trust the engine based on prior experience. I really don't car what caused the thing to overheat and die but it did and has soured my view of the engine.

I am not trying to sell or advocate either car over the other. These are my opinions and should be treated as such.

Originally posted by revhappy


Hmm....ever see the WRC?? :D Sure but I can't quite duplicate those conditions where I live... nor anywhere nearby.

It's a car that would be a blast to drive but terrible to live in on a day-to-day basis. And I need a happy medium between the two.

Horsepower doesn't impress me -- it's the package of everything I want.

Originally posted by Hercules
I wouldn't say M3 style performance.. there's quite a bit of difference between RWD and AWD. Both have pluses and minuses but I find RWD more fun to drive :)

You know, you really should look where you point that "narrow mind" of yours. That pointy little head of yours might hurt someone. You really don't know what you are talking about. I have owned most of the cars you guys talk about like you have owned them and I can tell you 100% that my new EVO is FASTER and handles better than my 2002 BMW M3 did. Sure, I hated the looks for the EVO for the first week and I let petty little comments from narrow minded people annoy me, but in the final analysis, the EVO is a blast to drive. You certainly can pay a lot more and get a lot less of a car. Sure, there is no nice leather interior like the BMW and sure it doesn't have the smoothness and refinement of the Porsche 911 Twin Turbo, but I can tell you one thing... it is hands down faster than my M3 and it is 95% as much fun to drive as my 911 Turbo was... and $100,000 cheaper!

Doh! Duplicate post. Damn slow servers. You guys should fix that!

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat
If we get him in an EVO the same might happen that happened to us....he may buy one.

Now that is funny! I have to say you are correct. The EVO should come with a WARNING label.

"If you consider yourself and enthusiast, DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR unless you can afford to buy it right now... because you are not going to want to leave the dealership without it."

I finally got past all the petty bickering from the narrow minded types enough to realize that from the cockpit of the EVO, it really is unlinke any of my last 15 cars. Exotic car performance with real world practicality. My kids love to ride in it and the 4 real doors make much more sense to anyone with kids. If you have 2 kids, a happy marriage and an RX-8 on order like I did... DO NOT DRIVE AN EVO or you WILL BUY ONE! :)

Originally posted by G-man


You know, you really should look where you point that "narrow mind" of yours. That pointy little head of yours might hurt someone. You really don't know what you are talking about. I have owned most of the cars you guys talk about like you have owned them and I can tell you 100% that my new EVO is FASTER and handles better than my 2002 BMW M3 did. Sure, I hated the looks for the EVO for the first week and I let petty little comments from narrow minded people annoy me, but in the final analysis, the EVO is a blast to drive. You certainly can pay a lot more and get a lot less of a car. Sure, there is no nice leather interior like the BMW and sure it doesn't have the smoothness and refinement of the Porsche 911 Twin Turbo, but I can tell you one thing... it is hands down faster than my M3 and it is 95% as much fun to drive as my 911 Turbo was... and $100,000 cheaper!
I never denied the Evo would outhandle or be faster than other cars... I said that I can't live in it, which to my knowledge, is your hiccup with it too.

Narrow minded perhaps I am... but how much are you when you fail to read all of my posts?

:confused:

Originally posted by Hercules
Sure but I can't quite duplicate those conditions where I live... nor anywhere nearby.

It's a car that would be a blast to drive but terrible to live in on a day-to-day basis. And I need a happy medium between the two.

Horsepower doesn't impress me -- it's the package of everything I want.


Oversteer CAN be induced:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26718&highlight=drift

Drifting CAN be done too:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19722&perpage=15&highlight=drift&pagenumber=1

Is it the best design for these two things? No, but you can have a lot of that kind of fun with a lot of the other benefits (i.e. traction, grip, etc.).

Interestingly, one of the factors that I considered (albeit small) was that the EVO was easier to live day-day. It had a larger trunk for storage, more room in the backseat without the "hump" that makes it more comfortable for passengers and safer when I transport my parents dog. Granted the interior isn't luxorious, but its not as bad as people claim. Maybe, I've never owned (or gotten used to) a luxury car, but I notice the fantastic recaro seats and momo steering wheel more than the interior plastics. However, I realize that's important to some people, so to each their own.

If interior is important to you, maybe you should look at an STI? :D

Originally posted by Hercules

I said that I can't live in it, which to my knowledge, is your hiccup with it too.

Someone loan Herc some money, he shouldn't have to live in his car!:D