This is all MazdaspeedFeras' fault. (http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=792049&postcount=406)

I don't think that any punishment that is equal to or less severe than the damage done to the perpetrator's victim(s) is cruel, and certainly if a punishment is done often enough it would not be regarded as unusual. So, with all the irony you can muster up, what would be the appropriate punishment for today's most notorious criminals.


For example, I think Ted Kazinski should be Sadam Hussein's official letter opener.

What should we do with Whacko Jacko, or Scott Peterson, or that pool-cue rapist Gregg Haidl (http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/03/23/sections/breaking_news/article_453868.php). How about that dynamic duo Robert Blake and OJ Simpson who are each on a quest to find the real killers? Let's get inspired!

Considering the world of law and the court is not perfect, then we shouldn't dish out cruel and unusual punishment.

No witnesses for 3 of the 4 cases you mention. Anything short of video/recording is not good enough. The manner of death/killing would seem to be critical in determining eye for an eye. Killings sometimes are not nice and neat and can involve a drawn out process over some time. For example, in the Scott Peterson situation, he may have killed her by accident and then tried to hide it by going further in "setting up" her body as if some passer-by did it. Even if it were an accident, if Scott Peterson is determined to not confess, no one will ever know what exactly happened. Why try to recreate the process, which could be a very expensive and far from perfectly detailed examination/investigation, when the final result of death is the real objective?

Considering the world of law and the court is not perfect, then we shouldn't dish out cruel and unusual punishment.

No witnesses for 3 of the 4 cases you mention. Anything short of video/recording is not good enough. The manner of death/killing would seem to be critical in determining eye for an eye. Killings sometimes are not nice and neat and can involve a drawn out process over some time. For example, in the Scott Peterson situation, he may have killed her by accident and then tried to hide it by going further in "setting up" her body as if some passer-by did it. Even if it were an accident, if Scott Peterson is determined to not confess, no one will ever know what exactly happened. Why try to recreate the process, which could be a very expensive and far from perfectly detailed examination/investigation, when the final result of death is the real objective?

I'll have to try this again when the crazies aren't aren't out.

I'll have to try this again when the crazies aren't aren't out. That particular crazy was banned so feel free to continue. :)

Personally, I think that if a person is found guilty, and is given a reasonable chance to re-prove their innocence and are still found guilty, then the punishment should fit the crime.

If you beat someone to death, then the same should happen to you. Rape? Bend over. Midah KeNeged Midah - measure for measure.

well tar and feathering is a horrendous punishment--the cartoons make it look comedic.

well tar and feathering is a horrendous punishment--the cartoons make it look comedic.
The only way I would agree with tar and feathering anyone is if they themselves were found guilty of tar and feathering, otherwise, the punishment does not fit the crime.

Jackson has not been found guilty so it's a bit early for sentencing.

Peterson should be condemned to life confined in a small boat permanently moored in the bay where he dumped the body.

I have the perfect punishment for that brat Haidl and his accomplices. We give them a dose of a paralytic drug that makes their muscles as limp as wet noodles but leaves them perfectly alert and aware of pain. Then we hand 'em over to Bubba and his buddies along with a few pool cues, beer bottles, and a videocamera.

Then we post the video on the internet.

Jackson has not been found guilty so it's a bit early for sentencing.

Peterson should be condemned to life confined in a small boat permanently moored in the bay where he dumped the body.

I'd go one further... I'd use him for fish bait.

I'd make MJ do a TV show of the Swan where he is made to look like Denzel Washington. Or they could make him look like Janet. Well those punish Denzel and Janet because MJ would look like them. What if we made MJ look like OJ? Then we could send him to prison and let him get raped. Yeah, that would be fitting.

Jackson has not been found guilty so it's a bit early for sentencing.

I remember in that British documentary where Jackson said that having young boys in his bed was "quite charming". That's enough for me to make an informed opinion. I'm planning his punishment now and when he's convicted we can proceed according to plan.

Here's what I think we should do. Next time Koko (http://www.koko.org/world/koko_who.html) asks for a pet, we should give her a naked Michael Jackson as her new permanent companion. Make sure he's trapped and can't get out - that's the only way to complete the symmetry with his practice of imprisoning his victims. I'm sure that Koko will know just what to do with him.

Just to lend some sort of framework to this discussion, I remember learning in my criminal law class that there are three basic reasons for penal (heh heh) punishment (ahem):


Retribution -- Make the guy suffer (basically, making soceity feel better by hurting the criminal).
Rehabilitation -- Make the guy better (used to be a lot more popular goal than it is now).
Deterrence -- Discourage others from committing crimes ("general deterrence") and discourage the guy from doing it again, in part simply by imprisoning him ("specific deterrence").
This thread seems to be focused on the first goal, i.e., retribution. Which is all well and good, but if you go overboard on that goal, you wind up doing things like they do in some countries: Chopping off thieves' hands, stoning people, hanging them in public, etc. Seems like that may not be a direction we want to go?

Just to lend some sort of framework to this discussion, I remember learning in my criminal law class that there are three basic reasons for penal (heh heh) punishment (ahem):


Retribution -- Make the guy suffer (basically, making soceity feel better by hurting the criminal).
Rehabilitation -- Make the guy better (used to be a lot more popular goal than it is now).
Deterrence -- Discourage others from committing crimes ("general deterrence") and discourage the guy from doing it again, in part simply by imprisoning him ("specific deterrence").


You forgot sport. Yes, we're deep into the sport of watching Heidl try to avoid those Snapple bottles.

PS: You're taking this thread too seriously.

Well the death penalty is only focused on the first goal, so if we have it shouldn't we have some fun with it?

Killing someone generally does not help them be a better person.

Evidence of the death penalty's application indicates that it either has no deterrence benefit or actually correlates with more crime.

The retribution of going so far as killing someone seems overboard, and it is questionable whether we can say for sure a person was the perp with the intrinsic error in juries, where the jury being wrong is quite a serious penalty, just to give a framework to things :p.

Here's what I think we should do. Next time Koko (http://www.koko.org/world/koko_who.html) asks for a pet, we should give her a naked Michael Jackson as her new permanent companion. Make sure he's trapped and can't get out - that's the only way to complete the symmetry with his practice of imprisoning his victims. I'm sure that Koko will know just what to do with him.

Koko allegedly likes boobs

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/02/26/BAGIUBH8CM38.DTL

......"To Rivera's shock and surprise, Patterson informed Rivera that Koko was communicating by sign language that 'she wants to see your nipples,' " the suit alleged. "When Rivera expressed her incredulity at the apparent request, Patterson pressured Rivera to comply, telling her, 'Everyone does it for her around here' and telling Koko to 'calm down' and 'just give her time.'

"Rivera then reluctantly raised her T-shirt briefly to reveal her bra, but Rivera admonished her that Koko 'wants to see the nipples (italicized in the suit).' Rivera grudgingly complied. Patterson then exclaimed, 'Oh look, Koko, she has big nipples.' ".......

I can't wait until Reality TV hits a new low and allow Convicted felons fight for their life in a "Running Man" type of show. Have the setting in Iraq, and permenently have their bodies tattoo with the phrase.. GOD BLESS AMERICA, and covered with Red White and Blue but naked. Michael Jackson already has the white part.. so that's easy.

Yes I know it would be Cruel and Unusual... but it would be fun to watch. I would pay to watch it... weekly subscriptions... and have guest Felons dropped there as the show progresses. If they make it out alive, then they are free.

You're taking this thread too seriously.
I know. I was just bored and felt like pontificating.

OK, here's my contribution: In Larry Niven's Inferno, he populates hell with all sorts of assholes, and he makes the developers build a bridge while the environmentalists tear it down. For all eternity.

Convicted felons fight for their life in a "Running Man" type of show
Exactly. I can't believe they're not already doing it.

Rotarian:

Death Pentalty is both Retribution and Deterrence... although how effective a deterrent seems to be constantly up for debate.

I'd prefer it if Death Row Inmates were used for things like Crash Test Dummies or medical experiments. You know, use their lives to help save others.

If Jackson is found guilty, his punishment wouldn't be punishment though, he would get drunk with a bunch of little boys touching him. Sounds more like a trip to Thiland.

When the Death Penalty means death (soon) and not 15 more years in jail while trying to fight the verdict, then it might be a deterrent.

Feed them nothing but McDonald's, like the guy in "Supersize Me". I think the dude would have died before the end of the 2nd month. He already had one foot in the grave at about week 3. He was kind of a wimp though.

GotZoom:

I dunno, quick and painless seems easier than long and drawn out.

I'm hoping this doesn't become a death penalty free-for-all. We can do that on another thread. I'm looking for irony here folks. Just desserts. If I can't have the real thing, give me virtual retribution.

Like...

Martha Stuart will be required to live with Oscar Madison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Odd_Couple) for the rest of her life.

For example, I think Ted Kazinski should be Sadam Hussein's official letter opener.

And Bill Clinton should test his cigars.

And Bill Clinton should test his cigars.

Bill Clinton is married to Hilary. Have you no mercy?

Bill Clinton is married to Hilary. Have you no mercy?

I think he meant that Clinton should test Sadam's cigars, but whatever.

For Whacko Jacko, how about just running a streaming, 24-hour live cam from Neverland in his prison cell showing under-age kids in swimsuits playing with his make-up kit?

Yeah, I meant Clinton should test Saddam's cigars. Could you imagine where they've been?

And while marriage might be cruel, it is not all that ususual.