http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/oprahx22e_20050322.htm

The key might be the part about "most of the G6 variations, such as the four-cylinder version and convertible, aren't even on the market yet." I'm guessing that's where the volume will come from. But I don't know much about the car...

Admittedly I scanned the article quickly, but I didn't see any mention of which cars the G6 is competing against. I'm assuming its rivals would be the Altima, the Accord, and the Camry. Good luck, G6. You'll need it.

Maybe next time they won't get a dumbass to try to sell their cars.

Are you talking about Bob Lutz? Or Oprah?

Are you talking about Bob Lutz? Or Oprah?

Yes

I think both :)

Well mostly bobby for thinking it would be a good idea, but yes, I hate oprah with a passion. I cannot dream of a more obnoxious person.

Admittedly I scanned the article quickly, but I didn't see any mention of which cars the G6 is competing against. I'm assuming its rivals would be the Altima, the Accord, and the Camry. Good luck, G6. You'll need it.


I guess I don't understand the car buyer's mentality. The Camry, though a pretty good sedan, is advertised as the best selling car in America. Now why in the world should that make me want one??? :confused: Do people really not care that 8 of their neighbors have the same car, and 3 of them are the same color? Accords, Altimas, and Camrys are so common I would think a new competitor would sell fairly well. But the G6 is a "US" vehicle, so that might turn off the "domestic is junk" crowd, even though a vast majority of top selling Japanese vehicles are built right here in the USA. I guess I'd have to drive one (G6) to really form an opinion.

I've driven one twice now - Hertz has a handful in the rental fleet now.

Here's my review:

1) It's a HUGE improvement over the Grand Am.

That said:

2) It's priced and sized similarly to the Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Mazda 6 and Toyota Camry but doesn't approach those cars in terms of qaulity and refinement.

Therefore:

Pontiac and GM are once again banking on the "desire to buy 'American' (in quotes because a significant number of these are built in Canada)" to propel this car when it is clearly a lesser car than the competition.

I had the pleasure and pain recently to drive a brand new Cadillac CTS-V - supposed to be the "M5 Killer" or the "AMG Killer".

Is it fast? Yes, blindingly so.. But it also has typical unrefined traits such as terminal axle hop on hard acceleration, and a terrible parts-bin look to the interior. No M5 or AMG Benz at all.

The camry, IMO, is the best in it's class and to say "I'm not going to buy it because there are lots around" would be incredibly foolish. Nobody will have a unique car. You can rest assured that if you go to a dealership to buy a car, there are hundreds of thousands just like it on the road. It is not an intelligent reason to pass on a great car.

The camry, IMO, is the best in it's class and to say "I'm not going to buy it because there are lots around" would be incredibly foolish. Nobody will have a unique car. You can rest assured that if you go to a dealership to buy a car, there are hundreds of thousands just like it on the road. It is not an intelligent reason to pass on a great car.

I'd have to agree. I had an Accord for six years and it was the most reliable auto I'd owned to date. Not only that, but with its track record, resale value is very, very good. Did I care if I saw several other white Honda Accords just like mine on the road? Nope.

I kind of like how the G6 looks, but it sounds like a pretty dull car otherwise. Plus I didn't know they started at $23,000 or something! That's a lot more than I would have expected. A big selling point for the Grand Am was that it was usually quite a bit cheaper than the competition.

I guess I don't understand the car buyer's mentality. The Camry, though a pretty good sedan, is advertised as the best selling car in America. Now why in the world should that make me want one??? :confused:
One question: Which OS does your computer run -- Windoze? 'Nuff said. The main reason people buy Windows PCs is because that's what everybody else uses -- certainly not because it's better than (or even as good as) the competition.
Do people really not care that 8 of their neighbors have the same car, and 3 of them are the same color?
Again, y'all, we are the weird ones because we think of our cars as more than mere appliances. The vast majority of car owners in the world regard their cars no differently than they regard their toasters. It's a device to get them from point A to point B, and they couldn't care less if it looks just like five others on the block.
But the G6 is a "US" vehicle, so that might turn off the "domestic is junk" crowd, even though a vast majority of top selling Japanese vehicles are built right here in the USA. I guess I'd have to drive one (G6) to really form an opinion.
For the past 20 years, I swore up 'n' down that I would never own another American car; I reserved extra contempt for any GM-branded vehicle. Up until about one month ago, when I drove a Pontiac GTO. Pass me a fork and some o' that crow, cuz that is one hell of a car. If the G6 shares any of the GTO DNA, the car is probably worth at least a testdrive.

I hope you didn't just compare Windoze to the Camry. :mad:
:D :P

i never understood how big car companies can get away with selling horrible cars like the Aztek and apparently the G6 ... such a waste of money.

I hope you didn't just compare Windoze to the Camry. :mad:
:D :P
Only in terms of popularity. The Camry is a competent and unoffensive product; Windoze is neither.

I havent seen a G6 in person, I do however have a pontiac grand prix widetrack as a loaner car while my 8 is being serviced. I have never seen a car with as cheap interior, the overall fit on the outside seems ok. I dont pay that much attention to it since I have always thought pontiac makes ugly cars. I have heard that a G6 is not much faster than a Montana (which I think is a minivan). Pontiac needs to get rid of body cladding, wierd lines on the outside, and the designers should all go buy accords and drive them for 50,000 miles so they can see how a car should hold up.

... Pontiac needs to get rid of body cladding, wierd lines on the outside,...They have. It didn't sell real well either.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44590

The camry, IMO, is the best in it's class and to say "I'm not going to buy it because there are lots around" would be incredibly foolish. Nobody will have a unique car. You can rest assured that if you go to a dealership to buy a car, there are hundreds of thousands just like it on the road. It is not an intelligent reason to pass on a great car.
Seems like this discussion should be in the General Automotive section, n'est-ce pas?

I disagree, BlueEyes, only because I think the Maxima, even the Altima, is a better overall package in the class. Looked at both cars before I bought my 8 and was very disappointed in Toyota. 160hp Camry vs. 260hp Altima or 265hp Maxima. No contest.

Seems like this discussion should be in the General Automotive section, n'est-ce pas?

I disagree, BlueEyes, only because I think the Maxima, even the Altima, is a better overall package in the class. Looked at both cars before I bought my 8 and was very disappointed in Toyota. 160hp Camry vs. 260hp Altima or 265hp Maxima. No contest.

Mark you are comparing the 4 banger to the 6 bangers. The base Altima has a big 175 hp 4 cyl stock last time I checked which is more comparable. Base camrys come a lot cheaper than the base maximas too.

Czr: Sorry--I just took a quick glance at both of their websites without soaking in the information. For some reason, the print on the Nissan website is so small, I could barely read it.

EDIT: I just double-checked the Toyota and Nissan websites. The 4-cyl, 160hp Camry SE starts at $20,125. The V-6, 250hp Altima starts at $23, 250. I still think Nissan is the better deal.

I heard a rumor that this giveaway promotion that Oprah did cost $7 million dollars, and that GM employees had to give up their vacation so that Oprah could give those cars for free. Is there any truth to that?

I heard a rumor that this giveaway promotion that Oprah did cost $7 million dollars, and that GM employees had to give up their vacation so that Oprah could give those cars for free. Is there any truth to that?

Never heard that but I do know that each person who received the cars had to pay tax and license for them.

A lot of people refused them when they found that out after the show.

------------------------------------------------------
It turns out that free cars weren't so free. That's because while Pontiac agreed to pay for most of the local charges -- things like state sales tax and licensing fees -- the recipients have to report the cars as income once tax time comes.


By adding $28,500 to someone's income, it can push them into a higher tax bracket -- which means they will have to pay about 25 percent or more of the car's value in taxes. And for a nearly $30,000 car, that probably means, for most of the recipients, shelling out $7,125 for the "free car." And if you live in Illinois, you can expect to tack on another 3 percent or so in state income taxes.

Luckily, the recipients weren't given the car on the spot so they can at least start to save now. Although Oprah seemed to have the winners choose their cars from an enormous lot filled with Pontiac G6 sedans, the cars will actually be delivered to a dealer near each winner's home.

Some recipients are going to wait a few months before actually picking up their cars so they can figure out how to pay for the taxes.

The tax shock is not much different from the bill that comes to many game show winners. The Internal Revenue Service requires game shows -- and every other large gift giver and casino -- to report winners to the federal government. It is then the responsibility of the winner to fess up on their tax forms.

But most of the winners still think they got a pretty sweet deal.

"Whenever I get something for free, I always think 'What's the catch?'," said Tiffany Self, one of the three Wheaton College co-workers who went to the show. "It's actually a blessing. I mean how often will you get a brand new car for $7,000?"

I absolutely HATE Detroit Free Press and their "know-it-all" writers that don't know shit. I remember them calling the 5 and 7 series a flop too, though they're both more successful than the models they replaced. This site's reporting is about as useful as Autospies.

Anyway, the G6 isn't going to sell like the Grand Am mainly because there aren't as many fleet sales. On top of that, right now they only have TWO models. Once the higher-performance sedan, the coupe, and the convertible are released, they'll no doubt see a nice jump.

Well mostly bobby for thinking it would be a good idea, but yes, I hate oprah with a passion. I cannot dream of a more obnoxious person.

Yeah, hate a self-made billionaire who's generous, helps people everyday, hasn't done a thing to hurt the community, and is a positive role model to MANY. :rolleyes:

REAL obnoxious people worth hating are assholes like Gates or Trump, or a certain idiot hick named after something dogs piss on that's likely going to ruin the U.S. before he moves his country ass back to the ranch.

Yeah, hate a self-made billionaire who's generous, helps people everyday, hasn't done a thing to hurt the community, and is a positive role model to MANY. :rolleyes:

REAL obnoxious people worth hating are assholes like Gates or Trump, or a certain idiot hick named after something dogs piss on that's likely going to ruin the U.S. before he moves his country ass back to the ranch.
Hey man, I 'm not putting down the good she does, I am happy there are people like her out there. I just cannot stand to watch her do it, she is too annoying.

Gates is pretty generous too by the by.

Only in terms of popularity. The Camry is a competent and unoffensive product; Windoze is neither.

And you are basing this on what criteria? Windows is one of the great technological feats there is. Being able to run an OS on just about any hardware out there and have it work out of the box is quite amazing. Not to mention when something breaks, you have someone to call for support.

I can't stand people who dislike Windows because its the "cool" thing to do.

Now, back to the G6. Among all of its problems, the pricing is the most suspect to me. With a loaded one coming in at north of $24k, you are now competing with a whole lot of cars the G6 has no business competing with. (RSX Type S, Nissan Altima, Mitsu Eclipse, etc). This car needs to be closer to $20k with option to be less than 20.

Hey man, I 'm not putting down the good she does, I am happy there are people like her out there. I just cannot stand to watch her do it, she is too annoying.

Gates is pretty generous too by the by.
Yeah, Bill Gates is pretty good...we can all hate Donald Trump though :)

Now, back to the G6. Among all of its problems, the pricing is the most suspect to me. With a loaded one coming in at north of $24k, you are now competing with a whole lot of cars the G6 has no business competing with. (RSX Type S, Nissan Altima, Mitsu Eclipse, etc). This car needs to be closer to $20k with option to be less than 20.
I think it is priced appropriately. A fully loaded camry comes in a nod over 25K, and you can get it as low as 19K. That's the typical family appliance car pricing.

I actually was thinking about buying one when they first came out. I test drove one and everything, i really liked the performance and handling, and looks. The major problem i had was with the interior, it was way to bland for me. The giant sunroof is a really nice touch, i wish more cars had an option like that, but i think it was like a $3000 option, which is a bit pricey.
Overall, i think its a nice car, just not nice enough for the price. I payed less for my 8 with gt package, than i would have paid for a g6 with that sunroof. I do agree that once the new styles come out it will sell a bit better, everyone is judging it way to quickly, it has only been out since late october. I've been told that all car sales are way down from this time last year.

I just dont get why you never hear people complaining about the Camry, Accord, Altima, and now Legacy being right at or over $30k in some cases, but don't dare price a domestic over $24k. It's that mentality that's going to stomp out GM and Ford's sedans and have them selling nothing but SUV's.

As I mentioned, I don't think the 24k sticker for the top of the line G6 is steep at all. The problem is, how many average car buyers do you really think care how much power their family car has? or how good the handling is? they don't. It's a stupid way to sell a family sedan. Toyota is number one because they offer a safe, reliable, comfortable package. That's what the camry is known for and 9 times out of 10, that's what a family sedan buyer is looking for.

I have, and will continue to have, the mentality that a family sedan is a family sedan, and a sports car is a sports car. I will never understand the appeal of an Altima. Hooray, it has 260 hp, BFD, it's for going to the grocery store and taking the family to hockey practice. What do you need that for, and why would I pay more for that engine at the expense of fit, finish and comfort, and arugably reliability, when I am simply using it for commuting. IMO, sportiness is not the way to sell a family sedan.

Blueeyes, I agree with everything you said except that I believe there is a place for sport in family sedans. Just look at BMWs. They wouldn't be half as popular if they did offer a quality family sedan in a taught, sporty package. GM is just getting ahead of itself by putting the performance in FIRST and ignoring everything else people look for in a family sedan.

I agree about the BMW's. I would love a M5 or any 5 series for that matter. But, they are far more expensive than the average family can afford and BMW gives you a total package, like you said, unlike what GM is offering.

Well, the 3 series starts at about 26 grand, which isn't terribly expensive for the average family (well, at least around these parts). Provided, everything is a-la-carte with BMWs, so you don't get a whole lot for that 26 grand as compared to other cars in its class (manual transmission, no power seats, etc.), but they've proven that you can sell a family sedan based on the "sporty" concept.

I just dont get why you never hear people complaining about the Camry, Accord, Altima, and now Legacy being right at or over $30k in some cases, but don't dare price a domestic over $24k. It's that mentality that's going to stomp out GM and Ford's sedans and have them selling nothing but SUV's.
Maybe there's no complaints because those cars are nothing near $30K.

Base model prices:

Accord: ~14.5K
Camry: ~15.5K
Altima: ~17K
Legacy: ~20K

If you start going for the higher quality models, obviously they get more expensive but I don't see how any of those are going to be around $30K...

$30K sedans are more like the Maxima, Lexus ES300, Acura TL...

Well, the 3 series starts at about 26 grand, which isn't terribly expensive for the average family (well, at least around these parts). Provided, everything is a-la-carte with BMWs, so you don't get a whole lot for that 26 grand as compared to other cars in its class (manual transmission, no power seats, etc.), but they've proven that you can sell a family sedan based on the "sporty" concept.
You have to wonder how much of that is selling because it's sporty and how much is selling because its a BMW though. I would never by a base 3 series. Again though, the reliability, I would think, kills that car with the average joe.

Maybe there's no complaints because those cars are nothing near $30K.
Kills me how people talk when they clearly have no clue what they're talking about.


If you start going for the higher quality models, obviously they get more expensive but I don't see how any of those are going to be around $30K...

Obviously. But maybe you need to SEE for yourself that the loaded models are near and over $30k;
Accord EX V-6-$29,365 with Satellite-Linked Navigation System™
Altima SL-$30,830 with NAV, side airbag package, Sirius radio
Altima SE-R-$31,080 with auto, side airbag package and Sirius radio
Camry XLE-$29,654 with NAV/JBL, stability control, side airbag package, etc.
Legacy GT-Ltd-$30,370 with 5-sp. auto

Yep, and buy a base model of any of those, cept maybe the legacy (don't know much about them) and you get a generally low grade interior and amenities that make them nothing special in my mind. But the general public thinks highly of them and therefore resale value is going to be higher, which is a big issue with consumers. Even if domestic carmakers topped the reliability and initial quality ratings for the next 10 years, the 'domestic is junk' mentality would still haunt them. It's hard to get rid of a bad image. Just look at Hyundai.

Maybe they should change the slogan to "Last ever G6"?