Ok, most people think I'm crazy... But I don't care for my Sti. (Never thought you'd hear that now did ya?). Even with the short throw it shifts like a pig and has a lot of play in the shifter. Also the cars interior rattles so rediculously loud when I turn up the radio. Interior build quality I give a 5. It is rediculously fast though :D . Its funny to hop an on ramp and pass the people already on the highway like they weren't moving.

So anyway, before the Sti I had a S2000. I LOVED that car, but as a daily driver it was killing me. No trunk, no back seat, and if you had to drive more than 3 hours at a stretch your first stop was at a chiropractor. Unfortunately I drive from NJ to DC every couple of months. The trunk was so small that with a 8inch sub in the back I couldn't fit my 1 bag of luggage in the trunk.

So I bought the Sti thinking, fast as hell and roomy. Then the rattling started, and the notchiness of the stick, and the play in the stick. The s2000 taught me one thing, road is no problem, but I can't stand rattles or crappy shifter feel.

Now I'm thinking the RX8 might be a good choice. Similar the s2000 in feel, though without some of the hard edges. And even if the trunk isn't huge, at least it has a back seat to throw a bag in. There's a dealership up here with a beautiful black 6sp GT package 2004 with 5-6k miles that they are selling for about 25-26k. I can probably work them down a bit too.

Any thoughts :p ?

I say go ahead and give it a drive - I think you'll find it's rather similar to the S2000 but a bit softer and roomier like you mentioned. I couldn't imagine anyone really being disappointed with this car unless you go in without any knowledge of its quirks. If you can live with the gas mileage, oil consumption and the potential for flooding (which many have never experienced, myself included), you'll be perfectly happy.

Might be what you're looking for.. You can add some power if you feel adventurous. The trunk should be plenty big for you. I have 2 - 10" subs and can still carry 1 touring and 1 stand golf bag. Not to mention the back seat.. I've made about 6 trips from Tampa, Fl to Norfolk, Va in my 8. It's quite comfortable.

Ok, most people think I'm crazy... But I don't care for my Sti. (Never thought you'd hear that now did ya?). Even with the short throw it shifts like a pig and has a lot of play in the shifter. Also the cars interior rattles so rediculously loud when I turn up the radio. Interior build quality I give a 5. It is rediculously fast though :D . Its funny to hop an on ramp and pass the people already on the highway like they weren't moving.

So anyway, before the Sti I had a S2000. I LOVED that car, but as a daily driver it was killing me. No trunk, no back seat, and if you had to drive more than 3 hours at a stretch your first stop was at a chiropractor. Unfortunately I drive from NJ to DC every couple of months. The trunk was so small that with a 8inch sub in the back I couldn't fit my 1 bag of luggage in the trunk.

So I bought the Sti thinking, fast as hell and roomy. Then the rattling started, and the notchiness of the stick, and the play in the stick. The s2000 taught me one thing, road is no problem, but I can't stand rattles or crappy shifter feel.

Now I'm thinking the RX8 might be a good choice. Similar the s2000 in feel, though without some of the hard edges. And even if the trunk isn't huge, at least it has a back seat to throw a bag in. There's a dealership up here with a beautiful black 6sp GT package 2004 with 5-6k miles that they are selling for about 25-26k. I can probably work them down a bit too.

Any thoughts :p ?

Hah, my s2000 ate a half quart or more every 1500 miles. Hell, even the sti you gotta watch closely.

Flooding huh? I haven't had that problem since I last drove my grandfather 72 chevy pickup in Missouri :p

Honestly the horsepower in the Sti isn't really doing much for me. If I was smarter I woulda bought an RX8 to begin with or regular wrx. I'm 30 years old, I have no desire whatsoever to go to the track, street race, or whatever. Modding seemed like a good idea at the time, but that lost its luster as well. I just like fun, sexxy cars. Hell, even the honduh guys with riced civics won't even rev at me to keep me entertained.

Hah, my s2000 ate a half quart or more every 1500 miles. Hell, even the sti you gotta watch closely.

Flooding huh? I haven't had that problem since I last drove my grandfather 72 chevy pickup in Missouri :p

Hahah, well then you shouldn't have any problem with the oil in this case - it seems they're about even on the consumption. As far as flooding, I've never had a problem but supposedly they're fairly prone to flooding in cold climates if you don't warm them up before shutting them down. I'd be willing to bet that old chevy flooded a whole lot more than the 8 ever would. :D I agree with Guy that this car is very comfortable for long trips and has plenty of room for your one bag of luggage.

As far as power, I think there's plenty to be had and I somewhat prefer the lack of torque. It allows you to drive the car around in a civilized manner when you don't really need all the power, but once you wind it up, all the power's right there for you. I think that's great...However, coming from an STi you may have some trouble adjusting.

From what you stated in your first post the RX-8 will fit you like a glove.

BTW, Ive had mine 8 months/10K miles and have never flooded it, get 18-20 mpgs, and add 1/2 quart of oil every 1500K miles.

Sounds like the STi was just a bad purchase for you in the first place. They're great cars but certainly not for everyone, you sound more like you should be driving an Audi A4 than a sportscar.

Thanks guys, this weekend I'm going to pull out my amp, subs, and Alpine HU from the Sti and put in the stock 6 disc and underseat crap-o-sub. Then I'll start going a shoppin. I gotta do a test drive, but if it works out I want to be able to make the move and not have to worry about getting the stereo crap out. If it doesn't work out it will only take me 20 minutes to pop the alpine back in... Gotta love using a wiring harness.

Sounds like the STi was just a bad purchase for you in the first place. They're great cars but certainly not for everyone, you sound more like you should be driving an Audi A4 than a sportscar.

Blah, I hate audi's. The closest one I ever like was a TT and that sucked compared to my S2000.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not racer but I drive it like I stole it. Corners and quick shifts just make my day.

I'd give that move some serious thought. If it were me, I'd keep the Soobie.

You'll love it, just test drive it. I hear people apologize for the horsepower and torque all the time. Forget that. Just get in it and drive it. That's what it is all about.

So I bought the Sti thinking, fast as hell and roomy. Then the rattling started, and the notchiness of the stick, and the play in the stick.

I *almost* bought an Evo... but after I let the "oh my god" feeling recede and the blood flow returned to my brain, I realized that in some ways it resembled junk food: unbeatable for an amazing rush... but did I want to live on it? Maybe in my 20s, but not at 40.

No, I was ready to settle down with something more satisfying in a deeper, less sugar-coated sense. IMHO, the joy of the 8 is it's *feel*. Not it's numbers, not even it's looks, but the way it connects with you, that zen-like experience of melting into the road and letting your hands and feet dance it around.

It sounds like that might be more important than raw performance numbers to you as well. Coupled with the 8's practicality and incredible comfort (my wife says it's like being cradled in "adult baby seats"), for some people it's a fantastic choice.

The STI is a Great car but hey go with what works for you. So many people on here love their 8's. Of course is not going to give you the same 0-60 times as your STI but you get good performance and soooo much more with the RX8!!!!

IMHO the RX-8 may prefer smooth driving instead of "driving it like you stole it". Some 8 drivers have issues with their transmissions, shifting fast at high RPMs and downshifting as well can grind. AND there is axle hop to deal with under hard acceleration. Search/read this website, the 8 has buzzes and rattles too. You will probably have to mod your 8 to get the performance to your liking and modding your 8 may become an obsession - beware... :D

Try to test drive a "broken in" demo car (750 miles or more on the odo) so you can really get the engine up to redline and shift it the way you like. Be sure to take it on a fast drive on some good highway straights, ramps and traffic loops and maybe on some bumpy roads too. Read up on this website, and Good luck!

yep, i got my 8 two months ago and i'm happy with it. when i was shopping for a new car after killing two deer with my "hooked up" honda prelude, there was the sti, evo, 350z, and the rx8 i was interested in. the sti and evo were very fast.. yet i was kinda bored of the look of them. me being only 20 years old, i already had the hooked up look on my prelude and wanted to leave that scene. the 350z was very nice, but it was only a 2 seater... so the 8 was my decision, sporty yet not overdone :D and being only 20, the insurance for any of those cars would have cost an arm and a leg, but the premium for an 8 is cheaper than my prelude!! :) i do have a rattle problem tho, where my volume control is on my steering wheel.. i need to find a way to get rid of it!!

Sounds like the STi was just a bad purchase for you in the first place.

You're on a RX board, you're going to biased opinions, having said that trade in your subbie and get the 8. :D

Since you don't track or street race your car, the 8 should be 'quick' enough for ya. Sure it isn't the fastest, but it is fun as hell to drive. Take one for a test drive already.

...Don't get me wrong, I'm not racer but I drive it like I stole it. Corners and quick shifts just make my day.

The 8 sounds like it could be a good match for you...go test drive one and see what you think. Any info you could possibly want you can find on this board.

HEY STIDRIVER Where are you from????????????????????

I was at the dealership last night for an oilchange and saw a nice silver STI no front plate...the guy was looking at RX-8s he want considering trading it I heard from another salesman! :D

Morrie's Mazda in Minnesota by chance??

I'm in NJ, but my car is silver haha. But, I have a front license plate cause they'll pull you over out here if you don't have one.

oh well...atleast someone else is thinking what you are thinking at this exact moment :p

This could be history in the making....and STi owner who is thinking of trading FOR an RX8. Awesome.

Mugatu, it was bound to happen: lose some, gain some. I think VikingDJ is looking at parting with his STi and keeping his 8.

Stidriver, This car is hella fun and uniqe. Lots of reading to do on the boards here. Let us know your impressions of the car.

The other car you probably want to try before you buy an a is a g35 coupe with the 6 speed.

I think the RX8 is an awesome car, the only downside in my opinion is the MPG and power. The car has the handling, braking and is user friendly. I would suspect the MPG might be your biggest issue especially at the times where gas has averaged $2.50 / Gallon.

My history with rotaries are not much, owned a 94 touring 5spd and my wife had a 94 touring auto never upgraded it because of all the issues with the rotary, because of that my car had 90k miles on the original engine and the turbos were fine also ran just like new. I just got the Automatic RX8 for my wife and she loves it! My brother was talking smack about it until he drove it, the build quality outweighed his desire for power. The interior is just designed so nicely, the build is very good no rattling, wind noises, suspension is just as good as the RX7 and NSX. Even the FD3S interior compare to today's standard is above average from a 12 year old design. 4 doors is the only reason why I got the RX8, it's the sportest family car I can find. My wife got so pissed at me because I forced her to sell the RX7 for a Supra TT, but I guess I redeemed myself with this great choice.

Ya, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how this car is only getting 16-18 mpg.

where in nj are u from stidriver.. haha i only ask cuz i live in fort lee nj, and i gun'd it across the gw bridge with a silver sti, passed my exit just to have fun driving and went onto route 80west for about 2 more exits... haha was that u? i was driving a black rx8 :)

I know I'll get flamed for this but trade it in for the WRX. I just traded in my RX8 for the WRX, and I couldn't be happier. I got 14 MPG on every tank. You can walk into a Mazda dealership right now and they'll take off $6k from the sticker. Read this months Consumer Reports. Finally the RX8's reliability issue is coming out. I had my car in service 13 times in 14 months. Expect to have your ECU reflashed at least once every 3-4 months. Now I know that some people have not experiance any issues with their 8, but it will no longer be on the top 10 list for retaining its value. ps, it's not a winter car either.

Gotta love the s2000. My father in law has both the Rx8 and the S2000.
I also have an 8.

Both simular cars. But like most mentioned. The RX8 is a tamed version of the two . Lots of good advice from most on this board . The sti is a Great car. It's just what you feel comfortable with . good luck .

Ya, the more I look in to it the more I'm leaning towards another S2000 or G35C. I love the way the RX8 looks, but I put on 15k-20k miles a year. And with the current gas prices I just don't think I want a car with such a fuel consumption issue. If I'm lucky I get 18mpg, if I'm not I get 14mpg. At that point I might as well buy an SUV. My Sti gets me 22-23 mpg, and my s2000 got me 24-26 depending what mood I was in.

It would be shame if I saved a little on my insurance just to pay double that for gas.

I really got to sit down and think about it. I'd thought they had fixed some of the fuel problems by now, but from what you guys are saying and what I'm reading elsewhere on here it hasn't gotten any better.

where in nj are u from stidriver.. haha i only ask cuz i live in fort lee nj, and i gun'd it across the gw bridge with a silver sti, passed my exit just to have fun driving and went onto route 80west for about 2 more exits... haha was that u? i was driving a black rx8 :)

Nope, I'm down on the shore area. I avoid the GWB like it was on fire. :D

Keep DNA in mind....

RX8 Genetics:
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44547&stc=1





STi Genetics... ;)

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44546&stc=1

I'm about to ditch the RX8 for a very warmed 2.5litre STI with allegedly 400hp! (Brett Middleton 's new package) check it out at

www.mrtrally.com.au

I am having trouble selling the idea to my wife as she adores the RX8 and thinks the video return shute on the bonnet (hood) of the STI is rediculous. May have to put a front mounted intercooler and a standard hood(now that's an idea!)..keep you posted. 9100RPM

The more I see the STI the more I think its sweet looking. Just by its looks you can tell its a beast. Although I don't know if I would want to drive one everday.
Reason 1 is, with all the ricers and mustangs that try to get me to race with the 8 I can't even imagine how many would if I had STI. To me people who try and race on public streets are annoying. The second and last reason is if I had that kind of power I would get myself in trouble with the law. Not by racing but driving it like I stole it.:D

Actually since I got the sti NO ONE tries to run me. I can't even get the average honda ricer to lineup at a light with me. They all hang back afraid I'll make an ass out of them.

I drive some SUVs for work now and then (Ford Explorers); they do significantly worse than the RX8 MPG-wise. In my RX8, I get 15-16 in-town and 21-22 highway. For purposes of comparison, I got 16-19 in-town and 23-25 highway in my WRX. My RX8 consumes 10-20% more fuel.

The STI is a different animal than the WRX (as far as throttle response, turbo lag, handling, and acceleration go) and it crushes the RX8 in almost every performance category (like the S2k, the RX8 is gutless down low and needs to be revved). But the STI's shifter, steering, chassis, balance, and tossibility don't touch the RX8's.

I've driven the S2k a few times.. it's a bit faster and edgier than the RX8, but is also significantly harsher. The RX8 revs more freely and smoothly. Both are highly resistant to understeer. Ultimately, the RX8 is the closest you can get to the S2k in overall driving dynamics while having a comfortable ride and 4-doors. As far as cost goes, the 6-speed RX8 is a bargain and can be had for $24-25k.

Test drive before you buy and good luck.

STIDriver...I'm a Forester XT owner, and just bought my RX-8 GT a couple of days ago. The XT isn't quite as fast as the STI...but it's a LOT faster than the RX-8! I still love the XT for what it is: a four-door wagon with 7" of ground clearance and a rocket under the hood. Good for toting the family and the dog, and getting off on a Forest Service road now and again.

Even though the RX-8 is slower...it really is a load of fun to drive. The shifter is great (though I keep hearing horror stories about the trannies blowing up) and really encourages you to spend the NECESSARY time mixing up the gears, handling in the stock config is remarkable and the cabin is a dream to spend time in (though the nav system may be the most frustrating piece of electonics I've ever dealt with). And the funny thing is...I seem to actually drive slower in the 8. Maybe I feel like there's something to prove in the XT?

Anyhow...I still think the XT (and the STi, for that matter) are incredible cars. Hard to beat the performace to price ratio, as well as the flexibility. But...I'm having more FUN in the 8 :-)

I initially chose the RX8 over STI, but when it came time to trade in my daily driver I went hognuts and picked up a silver STI. Until yesterday, the RX8 was forced to sit for almost 2 months because of the bad weather, and when I got in it, if felt very strange after driving the STi for so long. I felt like I got in a luxury car. The cars are just so different, so I'm not going to judge on which one is better. There are some factors though i compare to each car. Power? DUH. Highway gas mileage? STI. Handling, too close to call, yet so different. I've decided to keep RX8 as my fun summer car, and will look into parting with STI as a daily. It's certainly a very capable daily driver, but I'm finding I do not need all that power and performance for a commuter car. If and when I do part with STI, it's gonna be a sad day, because it's a wonderful machine. In durability and longevity my instincts tell me the STI will be better. I could never do what you are considering. I simply love both cars too much to decide, but if I do part with STi it will be for practicality reasons, and getting myself to accept the RX8 for what it is power and performance wise. It would be nice to see a 260-270hp RX8 arrive in the near future so that would allow me to keep STI. As far as the things that bother you on STI, you'll likely find similiar things on the RX8 as well. Mine has those rattles, but all in all I see less quirks with STI then I do RX8. As long as you can live without AWD, high power, slightly better gas mileage, and less oil consumption you'll be fine. The better looks, refinement, driving comfort and amenities can certainly make up for it. Each car has what the other lacks, so it's all about what suites your needs better. Trading in STI now is not a bad idea, because it's a very high demand car used, due to it's limited production, and will sell fast, and/or get a very good trade in value. Best of luck on your decision. BTW. in NJ there was a silver STI tailing me in my black RX8 the other day. I wanted no part of him, because I knew I'd be toast. You definitely don't wanna play with one of them if you are driving in an rx8. Enjoy!!

Sounds like the STi was just a bad purchase for you in the first place. They're great cars but certainly not for everyone, you sound more like you should be driving an Audi A4 than a sportscar.


Just as people here get pretty defensive about the RX8, you get defensive about Subarus...are you starting to become 'one of us'? :D

When somebody complains about the RX8, they get replies like "The car just isn't for you then..."

Could it be the guy wants more of a sports car? I think that's the case...the STi may be too 'sedan' for him, and he wants to get back to his 'sports car' roots?

STIDriver...I'm a Forester XT owner, and just bought my RX-8 GT a couple of days ago. The XT isn't quite as fast as the STI...but it's a LOT faster than the RX-8! I still love the XT for what it is: a four-door wagon with 7" of ground clearance and a rocket under the hood. Good for toting the family and the dog, and getting off on a Forest Service road now and again.

Even though the RX-8 is slower...it really is a load of fun to drive. The shifter is great (though I keep hearing horror stories about the trannies blowing up) and really encourages you to spend the NECESSARY time mixing up the gears, handling in the stock config is remarkable and the cabin is a dream to spend time in (though the nav system may be the most frustrating piece of electonics I've ever dealt with). And the funny thing is...I seem to actually drive slower in the 8. Maybe I feel like there's something to prove in the XT?

Anyhow...I still think the XT (and the STi, for that matter) are incredible cars. Hard to beat the performace to price ratio, as well as the flexibility. But...I'm having more FUN in the 8 :-)

Are smoking some crack? The XT is A LOT faster than the RX8? You must be joking!

personally i'd try to get both i wouldn't mind having my hands on a sti.

Thanks guys, this weekend I'm going to pull out my amp, subs, and Alpine HU from the Sti and put in the stock 6 disc and underseat crap-o-sub. Then I'll start going a shoppin. I gotta do a test drive, but if it works out I want to be able to make the move and not have to worry about getting the stereo crap out. If it doesn't work out it will only take me 20 minutes to pop the alpine back in... Gotta love using a wiring harness.

You are not, by chance the guy I met at einstiens in washington twp a few months back?

Just as people here get pretty defensive about the RX8, you get defensive about Subarus...are you starting to become 'one of us'? :D

When somebody complains about the RX8, they get replies like "The car just isn't for you then..."

Could it be the guy wants more of a sports car? I think that's the case...the STi may be too 'sedan' for him, and he wants to get back to his 'sports car' roots?

I wasn't being defensive at all. The STi is a very niche car and if you're into something more refined car then it's just not a good car to buy... In my opinion the STi feels more like a sportscar than the RX-8, it just doesn't look as much like one. The RX-8 to me is more like a very nimble GT car.

Are smoking some crack? The XT is A LOT faster than the RX8? You must be joking!

Yes it's a lot faster, what's the problem?

I wasn't being defensive at all. The STi is a very niche car and if you're into something more refined car then it's just not a good car to buy... In my opinion the STi feels more like a sportscar than the RX-8, it just doesn't look as much like one. The RX-8 to me is more like a very nimble GT car.


I don't see how anyone can argue with that!...but they will...oh yes, they will..

Yes it's a lot faster, what's the problem?

Maybe I'm missing something. How is it Faster? From what I see, theres no way! You guys have to explain this one to me??? :confused:

Maybe I'm missing something. How is it Faster? From what I see, theres no way! You guys have to explain this one to me??? :confused:

It's basicly a detuned STi engine and it weighs less than an STi. Ignore the HP numbers from Subaru, it's making well over the 215 advertised hp.

In my opinion the STi feels more like a sportscar than the RX-8, it just doesn't look as much like one. The RX-8 to me is more like a very nimble GT car.

I can't understand that...I simply can't. Understeer and weight and four real doors 'more' of a sports car? To each their own, I suppose :)

GT's aren't nimble - they are softer...more well-rounded...set up for 'touring grandly'....like a Jag or an Aston...

:D

I can't understand that...I simply can't. Understeer and weight and four real doors 'more' of a sports car? To each their own, I suppose :)

GT's aren't nimble - they are softer...more well-rounded...set up for 'touring grandly'....like a Jag or an Aston...

:D

The weight difference is small and the understeer isn't noticeable until you get out on a track, it's also pretty easy to tune most of the understeer out. Also how much it understeers is always blown way out of proportion because it's always being compared to an Evo.

Compared to an STi the RX-8 is softer, slower, less grip, less braking ability, quieter, more refined, more amenities and fluff. Now take the names out and if I had just made that comparison without you knowing which cars I was speaking of which one would you think is the sportscar?

It's basicly a detuned STi engine and it weighs less than an STi. Ignore the HP numbers from Subaru, it's making well over the 215 advertised hp.

Got any numbers? I just did a little search and the Automatic Forester actually weighs in more at 3315, while the STI is 3298. Now if you get the manual Forester than your looking at a 28lb difference. So it then weighs in at 3270. I just can't see it being faster than a 6 Speed RX8.

What are the 0-60mph on the Forester's?

Got any numbers? I just did a little search and the Automatic Forester actually weighs in more at 3315, while the STI is 3298. Now if you get the manual Forester than your looking at a 28lb difference. So it then weighs in at 3270. I just can't see it being faster than a 6 Speed RX8.

What are the 0-60mph on the Forester's?

5.3 0-60 and a 13.8 1/4 mile per C&D.

It's basicly a detuned STi engine and it weighs less than an STi. Ignore the HP numbers from Subaru, it's making well over the 215 advertised hp.
A car that goes ABOVE the advertised hp numbers? You lost us--that's a concept we're not familiar with here :cool:

I did a little research, and Shiv from Vishnu performance ( a reputable source id say) said:
"Just thought I'd share the news. It made 175 wheel hp on our Dyno Dynamics Dyno, or about 10-15 more whp than the regular WRX. Peak hp was generated by approx 5000, which is really early. IIRC, peak torque as around 180ft-lbs as well. Needless to say, the claimed power rating is understated. Assuming that SOA is honest with the WRX rating, the Forester Turbo is making at least 240bhp."

Def underrated from the factory.

The link: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=424011

5.3 0-60 and a 13.8 1/4 mile per C&D.

Looked at it but couldn't find any other sites with specs and numbers on it. Have any? From what they said, does sound like taking a corner at any high speed wouldn't be a good idea. I'm only really questioning this because while I was in Hawaii 2 years ago, I rented a Forester and I swear it was the slowest car I had ever driven. Ofcourse it wasnt the XT thought, but still............. And my buddy who rented the same exact car but in silver said the same thing.

Lastly, XT owners are buying up the used STi turbos, TMICs, uppipes and they're direct boltons. Then toss in a fuel pump and engine management along with a few hours of work and you're good to go. So for 1500-2000 in mods they're putting down 260-275whp. If they go with a FMIC and larger turbo 350+ whp is easy. Someone also hit 591whp with their STi a couple months ago so if you've got the dough it's possible.

Ofcourse it wasnt the XT thought, but still.
C'mon man.
That's like me not thinking the STI is fast because I drove the 2.5RS.

Looked at it but couldn't find any other sites with specs and numbers on it. Have any? From what they said, does sound like taking a corner at any high speed wouldn't be a good idea. I'm only really questioning this because while I was in Hawaii 2 years ago, I rented a Forester and I swear it was the slowest car I had ever driven. Ofcourse it wasnt the XT thought, but still............. And my buddy who rented the same exact car but in silver said the same thing.


It's a totally different car today than it was 2 years ago. They are pretty soft in the turns but they're meant to be. Since it's the Impreza platform there are suspension upgrades galore and just getting new tires will make a big difference in handling.

A car that goes ABOVE the advertised hp numbers? You lost us--that's a concept we're not familiar with here :cool:

In Japan the MAX HP allowed is 250, the skyline puts out over 300 easy stock. so there are times when stock cars to put out more then the advertised HP. this is in Japan so i don't know about over here in the US or in UK. but in US usually actually HP is lower then advertised HP. i must admit the STI's are very fast going straight, but i have yet to see a fast STI on the track. I keep up with STI's pretty well on corners, they only pull away on straights. i was gonna get an STI before i bought my 8, but after seeing how they did on the track i was glad i didn't. i bet it'll be fun to take the STI out on rally track though. but bang for the buck sports car has to go to lancer EVO 8. i dare anyone to argue EVO 8 verses STI. stock for stock. i've seen enough proof on track to know that EVO is better sports car. but i think both evo and wrx is very ugly compaired to rx8 looks wise. ultimately i went with looking cool then speed and power. anyways, in los angeles u can't drive to fast without getting bunch on speeding tickets so its pointless.

I was being very sarcastic, but interesting, I didn't know there was a 250-hp limit in Japan. Apparently, it's only a formality, but interesting nonetheless.

It's a totally different car today than it was 2 years ago. They are pretty soft in the turns but they're meant to be. Since it's the Impreza platform there are suspension upgrades galore and just getting new tires will make a big difference in handling.

That's pretty impressive then. But I've heard from many reviews and actual owners that without the Turbo the pick-up is horrible. Also heard you get a lot of Turbo Lag.

To those that doubt the straight-line acceleration of the Forester XT, you should drive one. The N/A 2.5L is a pig, but the XT hauls ass (it's faster than the WRX).
In my opinion the STi feels more like a sportscar than the RX-8, it just doesn't look as much like one. The RX-8 to me is more like a very nimble GT car.The weight difference is small and the understeer isn't noticeable until you get out on a track, it's also pretty easy to tune most of the understeer out. Also how much it understeers is always blown way out of proportion because it's always being compared to an Evo.

Compared to an STi the RX-8 is softer, slower, less grip, less braking ability, quieter, more refined, more amenities and fluff. Now take the names out and if I had just made that comparison without you knowing which cars I was speaking of which one would you think is the sportscar?I don't at all agree with the characterizations of the STI being a sports car and the RX8 a GT. The RX8 has better steering response, a better shifter, better chassis, better weight distribution, better balance, better road feel, and it's more nimble. My 6-speed RX8 weighs 400 pounds less than the STI and the weight is lower to the ground and more concentrated towards the center of the car. All of those things are important in a sports car, not a GT. Also, I don't think the STI's understeer is blown out of proportion... sure, it's better than the WRX, but it's noticeable at the more than just the track. Lastly, the STI's braking isn't better than the RX8.

Even the lowly Miata offers more of a traditional sports car feel than the STI (despite the Miata's lack of power). Don't misunderstand me... the STI is a wonderful vehicle, but it's more of a street legal track car (despite its mediocre steering feel, understeer, and hefty weight). Ultimately, the fact that the RX8 is able to offer a more comfortable ride than other sports cars is irrelevant to it being called a sports car so long as it offers sports car driving dynamics (same goes for it having 4-doors... the reason people usually cite for calling it a GT).

That's pretty impressive then. But I've heard from many reviews and actual owners that without the Turbo the pick-up is horrible. Also heard you get a lot of Turbo Lag.

I don't know what owners you're talking to... The XT spools fast and feels almost like a 6 cylinder NA but better because you still get that nice turbo woosh. The lag thing with turbos is so stupid to me, drive it in it's powerband and almost any modern turbo car had almost no lag. Go drive around your RX-8 out of the powerband and tell me it's not gutless.

I don't know what owners you're talking to... The XT spools fast and feels almost like a 6 cylinder NA but better because you still get that nice turbo woosh. The lag thing with turbos is so stupid to me, drive it in it's powerband and almost any modern turbo car had almost no lag. Go drive around your RX-8 out of the powerband and tell me it's not gutless.

Ahh come on Ike................ we're talking about Turbo's. I'm going off of what the reviews say. They even said there was a lot of lag in the STI and EVO's Turbo. When your talking about lag in a Turbo powered car and one without Turbo, that's two different stories. The drift I get from them is if the cars with Turbo's didn't have them, they would be a hell of a lot slower.

Ahh come on Ike................ we're talking about Turbo's. I'm going off of what the reviews say. They even said there was a lot of lag in the STI and EVO's Turbo. When your talking about lag in a Turbo powered car and one without Turbo, that's two different stories. The drift I get from them is if the cars with Turbo's didn't have them, they would be a hell of a lot slower.
:confused:
I think you need to go and drive these cars and draw your own conclusions. Of course a turbo car which lost its turbo would be slower, if it wasn't, why would you put a turbo on it.

And, Ike is right about the turbo lag. No offence, but the 8 is garbage in the low revs, just like some turbo cars. You have to wring it out to feel its potential, just like some turbo cars.

I don't at all agree with the characterizations of the STI being a sports car and the RX8 a GT. The RX8 has better steering response, a better shifter, better chassis, better weight distribution, better balance, better road feel, and it's more nimble. My 6-speed RX8 weighs 400 pounds less than the STI and the weight is lower to the ground and more concentrated towards the center of the car. All of those things are important in a sports car, not a GT. Also, I don't think the STI's understeer is blown out of proportion... sure, it's better than the WRX, but it's noticeable at the more than just the track. Lastly, the STI's braking isn't better than the RX8.

Even the lowly Miata offers more of a traditional sports car feel than the STI (despite the Miata's lack of power). Don't misunderstand me... the STI is a wonderful vehicle, but it's more of a street legal track car (despite its mediocre steering feel, understeer, and hefty weight). Ultimately, the fact that the RX8 is able to offer a more comfortable ride than other sports cars is irrelevant to it being called a sports car so long as it offers sports car driving dynamics (same goes for it having 4-doors... the reason people usually cite for calling it a GT).

You say better shifter, I say sportscars should have notchy mechanical feeling shifters not buttery smooth soulless shifters. Do you have something to prove that the weight is lower to the ground on the RX-8? I'm pretty damn sure the boxer is shorter than the renesis, and the exhaust it a configuration is lower in addition to a lot of the weight in the STi coming from the drivetrain which is far lower than the than either engine. I also don't get why you say better chassis, the proof is in the pudding if you ask me, toss out all the ridgitity numbers you want, the STi chassis has proven time and time again to be a wonderful platform.

The mediocre steering feel also baffles me, there is more feedback and the steering is very connected, it may not be as fast as the Evo lock to lock but to call the STi steering mediocre is silly and it now becomes clear to me that you've never driven one. You also say better weight distribution, I don't know where you guys got that 50/50 means it's a better handling car, I think you pay too much attention to marketing gimmicks. Most of the best handling cars in the world have a pretty decent bias.

I can't think of a scenario where the STi would have noticable understeer on the streets. With proper tires I've never noticed it on my WRX and barely noticed it on a stock STi on an autox course, but I've also heard some complaints of understeer in the RX-8 on autox courses. Don't get me wrong, the STi does understeer but dialing it out is fairly simple. How bout we take the body roll of the RX-8 vs. the Understeer of the STi and call it a wash :p

The braking I'll give you, I was thinking of the SRT-4s numbers, but the STi is right there with the RX-8 and with a few tweaks I think the Brembos on the STi would surpass the RX-8 brakes with the same tweaks (pads, braided lines, rotors, etc.). The biggest problem with the STi brakes is the over engineering ABS system Subaru has, it almosts works too well and is overly sensitive.

Your last statements in my eyes support my feelings, more than they do yours. I don't know what your idea of a traditional sportscar is. But I've driven some of the more raw older purist sportscars. They're raw, the gearboxes are notchy (ever driven a Ferrari?), the ride is rough, and they're loud, masculine, and in your face. There's little sound deadening, there are no sunroofs, no navigation systems, and they're fun as hell. That's how I view the STi, raw and fun as hell, while the RX-8 is more refined and fun as hell even if it is a little pokey in comparison. :D

Hey, IkeWRX
I test drove a STI, the hood vibrated and the spoiler vibrated both enough to be easily visible at only 30mph constant speed. Is that normal? It felt like there was a lot more vibration comming from an engine design that's supposed to minimize that.

Ahh come on Ike................ we're talking about Turbo's. I'm going off of what the reviews say. They even said there was a lot of lag in the STI and EVO's Turbo. When your talking about lag in a Turbo powered car and one without Turbo, that's two different stories. The drift I get from them is if the cars with Turbo's didn't have them, they would be a hell of a lot slower.

Does this sound like a car with a lot of turbo lag to you?

(From C&D)
"The bottom line is an engine that provides more thrust with less rowing through the six-speed manual gearbox and less waiting for turbo boost to assert itself. Although rowing the six speeds in either of these cars is far from tedious, thanks to positive engagements, particularly in the WRX, there are times when the driver wants to tramp on the gas and have something happen immediately. The STi is good at this. Moreover, it feels good, delivering that heady sense of massive hydraulic thrust that goes with a powerful turbo engine."

"the Subaru's turbocharged and intercooled 2.5-liter flat-four cranks out 300 horsepower at 6000 rpm and 300 pound-feet of torque at 4000. That torque peak is 500 rpm higher than the Evo's (not to mention stouter by 14 pound-feet), but the curve is fat and flat, yielding plenty of thrust across a broader band"

"Highs: Right-now throttle response, fat power band, ultra-positive shift engagements."

"You stepped on the gas, then you waited and waited, and then you suddenly got more than you'd bargained for. Thanks in part to the Subaru's relatively large displacement (at 2.5 liters, it's half a liter up on the Mitsu or the standard WRX) and the first application in the U.S. of variable valve timing by the company, this flat-four is pleasant and drivable in all circumstances.

Only the absolute bottom of the engine's rev range feels weak-kneed. To launch it briskly requires a greater-than-usual number of revs."

Lastly the street start of an STi is 5.8 seconds according to that article while they came up with 7.8 for the RX-8. 0-60 the difference between the RX-8 and STi is 1.3 seconds, streetstart is 2.0 seconds, one would think the STi would have a bigger advantage from a dig. The STi makes more torque at 3000rpms than the RX-8 makes anywhere in its powerband.

Hey, IkeWRX
I test drove a STI, the hood vibrated and the spoiler vibrated both enough to be easily visible at only 30mph constant speed. Is that normal? It felt like there was a lot more vibration comming from an engine design that's supposed to minimize that.

Kinda normal with the spoiler unfortunately, but the hood shouldn't be doing that and I've never noticed it on the STis I've driven.

I agree...it should not be. Yeah, another post!

Hey, IkeWRX
I test drove a STI, the hood vibrated and the spoiler vibrated both enough to be easily visible at only 30mph constant speed. Is that normal? It felt like there was a lot more vibration comming from an engine design that's supposed to minimize that.

Forgot the last part... The boxer in no way is designed to minimize engine vibration. Quite the contrary, it rattles, rumbles, shimmys, and shakes due partially to the unequal length headers. It's not a smooth running engine but it's got a great exhaust note and it's rather compact and lowers the center of gravity. In the same way you guys love the quirks of the rotary many people love the boxer for it's idiosyncratic nature. I'd say the spoiler moving about is due to the stiffer suspension and rough riding tires and has nothing to do with the engine though.

Does this sound like a car with a lot of turbo lag to you?

(From C&D)
"The bottom line is an engine that provides more thrust with less rowing through the six-speed manual gearbox and less waiting for turbo boost to assert itself. Although rowing the six speeds in either of these cars is far from tedious, thanks to positive engagements, particularly in the WRX, there are times when the driver wants to tramp on the gas and have something happen immediately. The STi is good at this. Moreover, it feels good, delivering that heady sense of massive hydraulic thrust that goes with a powerful turbo engine."

"the Subaru's turbocharged and intercooled 2.5-liter flat-four cranks out 300 horsepower at 6000 rpm and 300 pound-feet of torque at 4000. That torque peak is 500 rpm higher than the Evo's (not to mention stouter by 14 pound-feet), but the curve is fat and flat, yielding plenty of thrust across a broader band"

"Highs: Right-now throttle response, fat power band, ultra-positive shift engagements."

"You stepped on the gas, then you waited and waited, and then you suddenly got more than you'd bargained for. Thanks in part to the Subaru's relatively large displacement (at 2.5 liters, it's half a liter up on the Mitsu or the standard WRX) and the first application in the U.S. of variable valve timing by the company, this flat-four is pleasant and drivable in all circumstances.

Only the absolute bottom of the engine's rev range feels weak-kneed. To launch it briskly requires a greater-than-usual number of revs."

Lastly the street start of an STi is 5.8 seconds according to that article while they came up with 7.8 for the RX-8. 0-60 the difference between the RX-8 and STi is 1.3 seconds, streetstart is 2.0 seconds, one would think the STi would have a bigger advantage from a dig. The STi makes more torque at 3000rpms than the RX-8 makes anywhere in its powerband.

Your by-passing my whole point with my statement. The RX8 has NO Turbo, There's A big difference. The Rotary has always been known for its low torque so you wont feel the pick-up until you hit that 3-4K mark. We're talking about the Subaru's with Turbo's. What I'm basically saying it without a turbo in any of the Subaru's they are far from anything performance in the straight line of 0-60 mph! I would love to see times if you take the Turbo's out of all them. You can keep pointing to C&D if you want but I've heard different stories from the reviews and owners!

Ike, this is from C&D review of the STI and the EVO. Basically saying what I was saying that I heard. Directly from the article....................... "the Subaru's is, with 14.5 pounds of turbo boost—tend to be a little, well, unpleasant in daily use" & "You stepped on the gas, then you waited and waited, and then you suddenly got more than you'd bargained for"

This is basically stating what I was saying about the Turbo Lag. Yes it's great when the turbo kicks but before that, hang it up!

Ike, this is from C&D review of the STI and the EVO. Basically saying what I was saying that I heard. Directly from the article....................... "the Subaru's is, with 14.5 pounds of turbo boost—tend to be a little, well, unpleasant in daily use" & "You stepped on the gas, then you waited and waited, and then you suddenly got more than you'd bargained for"

This is basically stating what I was saying about the Turbo Lag. Yes it's great when the turbo kicks but before that, hang it up!

Way to completely misrepresent what they were saying. Did you comprehend a freaking thing that I posted?

Oh, and stop already with the ricer nonsense of "well take the turbo out of it and it's slow". It's a part of the car in its stock form.

Way to completely misrepresent what they were saying. Did you comprehend a freaking thing that I posted?

Oh, and stop already with the ricer nonsense of "well take the turbo out of it and it's slow". It's a part of the car in its stock form.

It's not ricer nonsense. Its common sense, I was just making a statement in which you couldn't even acknowledge because you don't want to admit it. That's Fine with me. But since you didn't respond to anything I stated properly then I have my answer. The Subaru's NEED the Turbo's to have any kind of performance. It's not just Subaru's ;) It's OK......................... I wish all cars came with Turbo's!

I *almost* bought an Evo... but after I let the "oh my god" feeling recede and the blood flow returned to my brain, I realized that in some ways it resembled junk food: unbeatable for an amazing rush... but did I want to live on it? Maybe in my 20s, but not at 40.

No, I was ready to settle down with something more satisfying in a deeper, less sugar-coated sense. IMHO, the joy of the 8 is it's *feel*. Not it's numbers, not even it's looks, but the way it connects with you, that zen-like experience of melting into the road and letting your hands and feet dance it around.

It sounds like that might be more important than raw performance numbers to you as well. Coupled with the 8's practicality and incredible comfort (my wife says it's like being cradled in "adult baby seats"), for some people it's a fantastic choice.

Great post heelntoe

Your by-passing my whole point with my statement. The RX8 has NO Turbo, There's A big difference. The Rotary has always been known for its low torque so you wont feel the pick-up until you hit that 3-4K mark. We're talking about the Subaru's with Turbo's. What I'm basically saying it without a turbo in any of the Subaru's they are far from anything performance in the straight line of 0-60 mph! I would love to see times if you take the Turbo's out of all them. You can keep pointing to C&D if you want but I've heard different stories from the reviews and owners!
You know, I read this and thought "no, he isn't still saying this garbage". But, then I read it again, and you were and I was in disbelief. The engine was designed with the turbo in mind. I have no clue what you are trying to prove by saying it would be slow without the turbo. It has a turbo, it has always had a turbo and it will always have a turbo. Why would you take the turbo out and expect good performance.

I wonder how fast an F40 would be without it's turbos, oh no wait, I don't. Why would anyone want an F40 without turbos!!

Why would you take the turbo out and expect good performance.

Thats my whole point. Everyone knows they were designed with Turbo's. I was making a statement, which I have every right to do. And yes, if you take the Turbo's out they are a lot slower. THATS IT.................NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS!

You guys get all bent out of shape for little things. There are many cars that have Turbo's and Superchargers in them. They WERE designed that way. But if I make a statement saying its a hell of a lot slower if the Turbo's weren't in the engine, wouldn't I be speaking the truth? I'm basically stating if you take them out, their far from performance. You guys can jump on my case all you want. I know its true and everyone else knows its true. Its really not all the serious....................................... Its a Freakin Wagon!

Yes, technically what you are saying is correct. But, I am failing to understand the point of such a statement, what is the purpose of what you're saying.

You know, if you limited the renesis to 5k rpm it would be a lot slower. I'm just saying. You know it's the truth. You're probably sitting there thinking "WTF does that have to do with anything" yes, what does it have to do with anything.

Your by-passing my whole point with my statement. The RX8 has NO Turbo, There's A big difference. The Rotary has always been known for its low torque so you wont feel the pick-up until you hit that 3-4K mark. We're talking about the Subaru's with Turbo's. What I'm basically saying it without a turbo in any of the Subaru's they are far from anything performance in the straight line of 0-60 mph! I would love to see times if you take the Turbo's out of all them. You can keep pointing to C&D if you want but I've heard different stories from the reviews and owners!


Well, My brother had a SVX, which was a boxed six. No turbo. was a sweet, fast engine.

Yes, technically what you are saying is correct. But, I am failing to understand the point of such a statement, what is the purpose of what you're saying.

You know, if you limited the renesis to 5k rpm it would be a lot slower. I'm just saying. You know it's the truth. You're probably sitting there thinking "WTF does that have to do with anything" yes, what does it have to do with anything.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start a argument with you or Ike. The Rotary Engine was built for high RPMS. Taking a Turbo from a car and taking a cars Redline, is something totally different. Now if you want to talk about if Mazda had put a Turbo on the RX8 that a different story too. Please don't get the wrong impression from me, I'm not trying to start up a flame thread here. I respect the fact that Subaru designed their higher end Boxer Engines to run with Turbo's. I'm not taking that away from them. Just stating the fact the I and other people feel they would be a lot slower in the straight line without them. That's all we're saying.

I'm not looking for an argument either. I know what you're saying. Of course they would be slower without a turbo. I just don't understand why you're saying it. You could say any number of things that would make a car slower. Take away their AWD and the 0-60 times would probably suffer. Fill the backseat with concrete and it would be slower. Take away on of the 8's rotors and it would be slower. Why would anyone do such things though. It just seems pretty irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Lastly the street start of an STi is 5.8 seconds according to that article while they came up with 7.8 for the RX-8. 0-60 the difference between the RX-8 and STi is 1.3 seconds, streetstart is 2.0 seconds, one would think the STi would have a bigger advantage from a dig. The STi makes more torque at 3000rpms than the RX-8 makes anywhere in its powerband.

I think it is unfair to compare a car that costs almost $10,000 more than the other......the wrx sedan is better suited for comparison with an 8(although it really cant ;)).....I know you love your sti Ike but c'mon it's not that great....and besides it costs a lot more to maintain and looks like it was hit with an ugly stick.......I hope the ms8 will shut up all the haters but when I go turbo I'll shut them up myself.... :eek: ;) :D

"...drive more than 3 hours at a stretch your first stop was at a chiropractor"
hey, thanx for the props man

I think it is unfair to compare a car that costs almost $10,000 more than the other......the wrx sedan is better suited for comparison with an 8(although it really cant ;)).....I know you love your sti Ike but c'mon it's not that great....and besides it costs a lot more to maintain and looks like it was hit with an ugly stick.......I hope the ms8 will shut up all the haters but when I go turbo I'll shut them up myself.... :eek: ;) :D

some rx8s are in the 31k range would only make it 3 or 4 thousand dollar difference :/

performance wise sti is better all around, but practicality wise is rx8 takes home the gold.

what do you mean by practicality? I would put them pretty even as far as practicality. I mean, they both have 4 seats, good sized trunks. Now, the STI has all weather advantage which is pretty practical. As well, I have yet to see a rack for the 8, someone probably makes one though.

Now if you mean comfort? then yes, the 8 takes the gold.

STi has a bigger trunk, larger backseat, and its better in bad weather conditions. Id say its more practical, but the rx8 appeals to a slightly different audience obviously.

I think it is unfair to compare a car that costs almost $10,000 more than the other......the wrx sedan is better suited for comparison with an 8(although it really cant ;)).....I know you love your sti Ike but c'mon it's not that great....and besides it costs a lot more to maintain and looks like it was hit with an ugly stick.......I hope the ms8 will shut up all the haters but when I go turbo I'll shut them up myself.... :eek: ;) :D

There is not a single RX-8 that will cost 10k less than an STi, at least last I checked there was not RX-8 with an MSRP of 22-23k. The STi is cheaper than a loaded RX-8 and more expensive than a base, seems like a fair comparison price wise to me.

Also I've been hearing this wait til the MS8 comes out or wait til the RX-8 gets a turbo nonsense for two years. I'll believe it when I see it, thus far the turbo applications put the RX-8 in line speed wise with these cars that the turbo renesis was going to destroy according to some. The difference is the other cars still have a warranty, and aren't going to have the problems an aftermarket FI formerly NA car will. Think about it, the Greedy kits means you just spent 4-5k and threw your warranty out the window to be able keep up with an SRT-4 with a boost controller. Spend half the money it costs for a greedy kit on an STi and you have over 100 more WHP than a turboed RX-8 and there's lots more room for more HP still.

I'm sure a turboed RX-8 is a blast and I certainly wouldn't mind owning one, but when you start talking about mods and magical cars that don't exist (suchs as a non turboed STi or MS8) the discussion will go downhill in a hurry.

Blueeyes, I don't know what exactly Cas is getting at, but I've gone round and round with him on stuff like this in the past. I think you missed the arguments back when he was talking about how much better ATs were than MTs because they shift faster, and several other wastes of time that he's posted. He's a weird dude and it seems to takes months for things to sink in with him, case in point he now drives an MT RX-8. Basicly I'm saying he's a waste of time and don't bother trying to make sense of what he says or debate anything with him. I should have learned my lesson long ago, but I clearly didn't judging from this thread.

There is not a single RX-8 that will cost 10k less than an STi, at least last I checked there was not RX-8 with an MSRP of 22-23k. The STi is cheaper than a loaded RX-8 and more expensive than a base, seems like a fair comparison price wise to me.

Also I've been hearing this wait til the MS8 comes out or wait til the RX-8 gets a turbo nonsense for two years. I'll believe it when I see it, thus far the turbo applications put the RX-8 in line speed wise with these cars that the turbo renesis was going to destroy according to some. The difference is the other cars still have a warranty, and aren't going to have the problems an aftermarket FI formerly NA car will. Think about it, the Greedy kits means you just spent 4-5k and threw your warranty out the window to be able keep up with an SRT-4 with a boost controller. Spend half the money it costs for a greedy kit on an STi and you have over 100 more WHP than a turboed RX-8 and there's lots more room for more HP still.

I'm sure a turboed RX-8 is a blast and I certainly wouldn't mind owning one, but when you start talking about mods and magical cars that don't exist (suchs as a non turboed STi or MS8) the discussion will go downhill in a hurry.


Okay here's the lowdown in canadian funds:

Mazda rx8 6spd--------starts from $36,995----GT $39,995
Subaru STI--------------starts from $47,995
WRX sedan-------------starts from $35,495


which is a better comparison?

If/when the ms8 comes out, I suspect it will be closer to the STI price tag.....which of course will be a better comparison...imo

I look at the STI as a mazdaspeed version of the WRX sedan.....so would you compare the WRX sedan to the STI? :confused:

I just built my ideal 8 and it cost 47,461 before freight. When I built my STI there were no options, so 47,995. Pretty close. What's the deal with mazda charging for any paint that isn't black?

I just built my ideal 8 and it cost 47,461 before freight. When I built my STI there were no options, so 47,995. Pretty close. What's the deal with mazda charging for any paint that isn't black?

Black is the easiest color to paint a car.......I built my 8 and it only cost $36,995...I bought the GS cause I don't need any extra weight slowing me down and I do notice a difference in the base and GT when accelerating...the base feels faster and having no sunroof makes the car much more rigid up top...... :D

I didn't even ad the moonroof or the navi. That would have pushed her into the 50's!! :eek:

I didn't even ad the moonroof or the navi. That would have pushed her into the 50's!! :eek:


let me guess...you opted for the $3000 polished wheels...... ;)

Blueeyes, I don't know what exactly Cas is getting at, but I've gone round and round with him on stuff like this in the past. I think you missed the arguments back when he was talking about how much better ATs were than MTs because they shift faster, and several other wastes of time that he's posted. He's a weird dude and it seems to takes months for things to sink in with him, case in point he now drives an MT RX-8. Basicly I'm saying he's a waste of time and don't bother trying to make sense of what he says or debate anything with him. I should have learned my lesson long ago, but I clearly didn't judging from this thread.

I'll have to back track on my threads. And I'll stick by that point with the Manual Modes in Automatics. Maybe I should have said they "feel" like they shift faster. You go round and round because your stubborn and always think your right. I bring up an discussion about the Boxer Engine being slow if Subaru took the Turbo's out of them. But your so freakin stubborn and caught up on Subaru's you wont even admit to it. Everyone knows including yourself they would be considerably slower. Unlike you, When I'm wrong at least I'm man enough to admit to it. People make mistakes all the time. But I'll only listen and then call it quits if proven wrong. Otherwise I'll debate!

let me guess...you opted for the $3000 polished wheels...... ;)
haha, yeah. I like the 8's stock wheels. I couldn't remember if it comes with stock 18's or 17's, so I picked the 18's.

I'll have to back track on my threads. And I'll stick by that point with the Manual Modes in Automatics. Maybe I should have said they "feel" like they shift faster. You go round and round because your stubborn and always think your right. I bring up an discussion about the Boxer Engine being slow if Subaru took the Turbo's out of them. But your so freakin stubborn and caught up on Subaru's you wont even admit to it. Everyone knows including yourself they would be considerably slower. Unlike you, When I'm wrong at least I'm man enough to admit to it. People make mistakes all the time. But I'll only listen and then call it quits if proven wrong. Otherwise I'll debate!

Listen, your entire argument makes no sense at all. Yes, you are right. The STI would be considerably slower if you took the turbo off the car. Similarily with any turbo car. Ike knows they would be slower, you know it, I know it, but the problem is, who cares!! It is meaningless, the car has a turbo. It's silly, silly silly silly.

The original poster hasn'ty posted on this thread in over a week. He probably realized we're all insane and went and bought a G35 :p

yep, i got my 8 two months ago and i'm happy with it. when i was shopping for a new car after killing two deer with my "hooked up" honda prelude, there was the sti, evo, 350z, and the rx8 i was interested in. the sti and evo were very fast.. yet i was kinda bored of the look of them. me being only 20 years old, i already had the hooked up look on my prelude and wanted to leave that scene. the 350z was very nice, but it was only a 2 seater... so the 8 was my decision, sporty yet not overdone :D and being only 20, the insurance for any of those cars would have cost an arm and a leg, but the premium for an 8 is cheaper than my prelude!! :) i do have a rattle problem tho, where my volume control is on my steering wheel.. i need to find a way to get rid of it!!
Take it to the dealer. I have taken mine in twice for rattles, and I am going to have to take it in again because they did some work on the driver side window, and now there is a rattle in the door. It's covered under warranty, and I plan to squeeze every bit of value from my warranty that I have to. Maybe next time they will just insulate it in the first place.

Ya, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how this car is only getting 16-18 mpg.
If the overrated horsepower was such a problem for Mazda, why haven't there been any issues with the overrated fuel economy? It seems to me that there are an overwhelming number of people who are getting considerably less miles from a tank than was promised on the sticker. I have learned to keep mine under 3k rpms in gears 1-4 and I have managed to get as much as 17 mpg city, but when I was driving it like it was made to be driven, I was getting about 13.

The original poster hasn'ty posted on this thread in over a week. He probably realized we're all insane and went and bought a G35 :p

Now I will agree with you on that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

There is not a single RX-8 that will cost 10k less than an STi, at least last I checked there was not RX-8 with an MSRP of 22-23k. The STi is cheaper than a loaded RX-8 and more expensive than a base, seems like a fair comparison price wise to me.It's a lop-sided comparison, price-wise; a brand new '05 6-speed RX8 can be had for $24-25k, about $8k less than the STI (unless the STI is discounted significantly from its MSRP). I have a base 6-speed; it's very well equipped.

You say better shifter, I say sportscars should have notchy mechanical feeling shifters not buttery smooth soulless shifters. Do you have something to prove that the weight is lower to the ground on the RX-8? I'm pretty damn sure the boxer is shorter than the renesis, and the exhaust it a configuration is lower in addition to a lot of the weight in the STi coming from the drivetrain which is far lower than the than either engine. I also don't get why you say better chassis, the proof is in the pudding if you ask me, toss out all the ridgitity numbers you want, the STi chassis has proven time and time again to be a wonderful platform.Soulless shifters? The S2k, Miata SE 6-speed, and RX8 are some of best shifters I've had the pleasure to use... they have plenty of feel to let you know when you've engaged and their smooth, short action allows quick shifts. There is no advantage to having a notchy, mechanical-feeling shifter in a sports car.

The boxer's weight is low, however, so is the RENESIS'. The RX8 has lower ground clearance and the STI is a significantly taller vehicle with a larger, heavier frame and a lot more glass up high.

The Impreza chassis is OK, but ultimately its an economy platform tweaked for performance as opposed to a pure sports car platform (I touch on the advantages of that below).The mediocre steering feel also baffles me, there is more feedback and the steering is very connected, it may not be as fast as the Evo lock to lock but to call the STi steering mediocre is silly and it now becomes clear to me that you've never driven one. You also say better weight distribution, I don't know where you guys got that 50/50 means it's a better handling car, I think you pay too much attention to marketing gimmicks. Most of the best handling cars in the world have a pretty decent bias.

I can't think of a scenario where the STi would have noticable understeer on the streets. With proper tires I've never noticed it on my WRX and barely noticed it on a stock STi on an autox course, but I've also heard some complaints of understeer in the RX-8 on autox courses. Don't get me wrong, the STi does understeer but dialing it out is fairly simple. How bout we take the body roll of the RX-8 vs. the Understeer of the STi and call it a wash :pThe STI steering is loose compared to the RX8's (and the EVO's, which is even more responsive than the 8's). Weight distribution doesn't automatically mean better handling, and there are some situations where bias is desirable, but all other attributes being equal, 50/50 distribition will give an all-around handling advantage (in addition to the Miatas and S2k, many of the BMWs I've driven support this). It's true that there are several excellent handling cars with some bias, but most of them that have a bias have a rear-ward one (and their bias isn't a positive contributor to their handling for most situations).

As far as understeer goes, what tires do you have on your WRX? I've driven the WRX with a couple different types, and while the RE92s were horrible and the other tires reduced understeer, it was still substantial. Anyway, as far as the RX8 understeering at autocross, almost every car will do it if pushed hard enough, but there is a huge difference between the WRX, STI and RX8.

I reject your suggestion that the STI's understeer is evened out by the RX8's body roll. Understeer is an important handling attribute; body roll itself is not (but is instead a vehicle attribute that negatively affects handling). In other words, a car handles worse because of body roll, but if you're comparing two cars and the one that has more body roll handles better, the fact that it has more body roll doesn't change it being a better handler. However, if one car understeers more than another, that itself is a handling difference.

In the case of the RX8, it has superb handling and tossability *despite* having a soft ride and some body roll. Additionally, because it gets its handling from it low yaw-moment, balance, chassis, light weight, weight distribution, etc, there is room for improvement via sway bars, suspension upgrades, etc. But a car can only reduce yaw moment and improve weight distribution so much. This illustrates the advantage of using a sports car platform instead of an economy platform. Note that I'm not dismissing the STI as an econobox... I like the STI which, as I posted previously, outperforms the RX8.The braking I'll give you, I was thinking of the SRT-4s numbers, but the STi is right there with the RX-8 and with a few tweaks I think the Brembos on the STi would surpass the RX-8 brakes with the same tweaks (pads, braided lines, rotors, etc.). The biggest problem with the STi brakes is the over engineering ABS system Subaru has, it almosts works too well and is overly sensitive.Subaru's ABS on my WRX was absolutely awful, but with my limited experience with the STI, I can't tell if it inherited the same problems (so I didn't mention it). Perhaps you've driven the STI more than me and can provide more details about that... in any case, my beef was with your claim that the STI's brakes were better than the RX8's.
Your last statements in my eyes support my feelings, more than they do yours. I don't know what your idea of a traditional sportscar is. But I've driven some of the more raw older purist sportscars. They're raw, the gearboxes are notchy (ever driven a Ferrari?), the ride is rough, and they're loud, masculine, and in your face. There's little sound deadening, there are no sunroofs, no navigation systems, and they're fun as hell. That's how I view the STi, raw and fun as hell, while the RX-8 is more refined and fun as hell even if it is a little pokey in comparison. :DHere's my take on it: sports cars used to be very raw with no amenities (and only one seat, originally). As technology improved, sports cars added second seats, climate control, radios, etc. Now we the RX8. It's got 4-doors, 4-seats and a comfortable ride, but is still a sports car because of its driving dynamics. It also still has a "drive-it-like-ya-stole-it" personality, even though it's not as rough or loud as the STI.

If you want a purist car with singular purpose, the Elise is obviously a better example than both the RX8 and STI.
The original poster hasn'ty posted on this thread in over a week. He probably realized we're all insane and went and bought a G35 :pLOL... yeah, I imagine a seeing a bunch of RX8, rotary, and scooby fanatics yelling at each other would cause most sensible people to run and never look back :D

Here's my take on it: sports cars used to be very raw with no amenities (and only one seat, originally). As technology improved, sports cars added second seats, climate control, radios, etc. Now we the RX8. It's got 4-doors, 4-seats and a comfortable ride, but is still a sports car because of its driving dynamics. It also still has a "drive-it-like-ya-stole-it" personality, even though it's not as rough or loud as the STI.

The elise is too expensive. Someone needs to make a raw sports car. No TC, no DSC, no leather, no navi, no nothing!! except radio and a/c for panzies like me. That would be dreamy.

I paid $29k for my STI. $32k for my RX8. Of course my Rx8 was fully loaded with all the goodies and I purchased it well over a year ago ($500 below invoice), but comparably equipped they are very close in price. I'm not talking about the blowout deals on the leftover 04 rx8s either. The limited quantity and high demand will never allow the STI to reach prices that leftover rx8s have reached. Either way, you get what you pay for. The STi is every bit of a bargain as the RX8, but will not seem that way to people who don't want the performance goodies the STI gives you. The difference in MSRP is because the STI pretty much comes with everything performance wise. You can buy a base model RX8 and save tons, but once you start loading it up, the price goes up, and starts hitting STI territory and then some. You really can't compare them price wise.

It's a lop-sided comparison, price-wise; a brand new '05 6-speed RX8 can be had for $24-25k, about $8k less than the STI (unless the STI is discounted significantly from its MSRP). I have a base 6-speed; it's very well equipped.

Soulless shifters? The S2k, Miata SE 6-speed, and RX8 are some of best shifters I've had the pleasure to use... they have plenty of feel to let you know when you've engaged and their smooth, short action allows quick shifts. There is no advantage to having a notchy, mechanical-feeling shifter in a sports car.

The boxer's weight is low, however, so is the RENESIS'. The RX8 has lower ground clearance and the STI is a significantly taller vehicle with a larger, heavier frame and a lot more glass up high.

The Impreza chassis is OK, but ultimately its an economy platform tweaked for performance as opposed to a pure sports car platform (I touch on the advantages of that below).The STI steering is loose compared to the RX8's (and the EVO's, which is even more responsive than the 8's). Weight distribution doesn't automatically mean better handling, and there are some situations where bias is desirable, but all other attributes being equal, 50/50 distribition will give an all-around handling advantage (in addition to the Miatas and S2k, many of the BMWs I've driven support this). It's true that there are several excellent handling cars with some bias, but most of them that have a bias have a rear-ward one (and their bias isn't a positive contributor to their handling for most situations).

As far as understeer goes, what tires do you have on your WRX? I've driven the WRX with a couple different types, and while the RE92s were horrible and the other tires reduced understeer, it was still substantial. Anyway, as far as the RX8 understeering at autocross, almost every car will do it if pushed hard enough, but there is a huge difference between the WRX, STI and RX8.

I reject your suggestion that the STI's understeer is evened out by the RX8's body roll. Understeer is an important handling attribute; body roll itself is not (but is instead a vehicle attribute that negatively affects handling). In other words, a car handles worse because of body roll, but if you're comparing two cars and the one that has more body roll handles better, the fact that it has more body roll doesn't change it being a better handler. However, if one car understeers more than another, that itself is a handling difference.

In the case of the RX8, it has superb handling and tossability *despite* having a soft ride and some body roll. Additionally, because it gets its handling from it low yaw-moment, balance, chassis, light weight, weight distribution, etc, there is room for improvement via sway bars, suspension upgrades, etc. But a car can only reduce yaw moment and improve weight distribution so much. This illustrates the advantage of using a sports car platform instead of an economy platform. Note that I'm not dismissing the STI as an econobox... I like the STI which, as I posted previously, outperforms the RX8.Subaru's ABS on my WRX was absolutely awful, but with my limited experience with the STI, I can't tell if it inherited the same problems (so I didn't mention it). Perhaps you've driven the STI more than me and can provide more details about that... in any case, my beef was with your claim that the STI's brakes were better than the RX8's.
Here's my take on it: sports cars used to be very raw with no amenities (and only one seat, originally). As technology improved, sports cars added second seats, climate control, radios, etc. Now we the RX8. It's got 4-doors, 4-seats and a comfortable ride, but is still a sports car because of its driving dynamics. It also still has a "drive-it-like-ya-stole-it" personality, even though it's not as rough or loud as the STI.

If you want a purist car with singular purpose, the Elise is obviously a better example than both the RX8 and STI.
LOL... yeah, I imagine a seeing a bunch of RX8, rotary, and scooby fanatics yelling at each other would cause most sensible people to run and never look back :D

1.) The STi is being sold around $500 over Invoice from what I can tell, not RX-8 discounts but people aren't beinf forced to pay MSRP anymore. Therefore I still say an RX-8 with packages that fall in at 32-33k is a fair comparison.

2.) I think my statement came across the wrong way about shifters. I wasn't calling the RX-8 shifter soulless, just refering to cars in general. I rather like the S2K and RX-8 shifters. However just because the Impreza shifters feel more mechanical in my eyes doesn't make them worse or better, just different. Some people will like their feel, others won't and it comes down to preference. It's kind of like the smoothness of a Renesis vs. the rumble of the boxer, both good in their own way, some will like them some won't.

3.) So if a car understeers yet handles better what does that mean then? Because I feel the understeering STi is a better handler than the bodyrolling RX-8. It's the case with both cars that those things can be tuned out or made better with the addition with aftermarket parts. Also I wouldn't go as far to say the Rx-8 is a soft ride, it has its harsh moments as well. Tossable, that goes to the STi, fling it around all you want and it just asks for me. Nimble, I'll give that to the RX-8.

4.) Your sportscar platform is flawed considering the platform for all Imprezas was developed with the WRC in mind. Cars like the Impreza RS were born out of the STi and WRX, not the other way around. It's not nor has it ever been a modified econo car chassis.

5.) I've driven the STi a fair amount, but have never noticed the ABS, I'm just assuming it's the same since it's the same system just with different hardware hooked up to it.

6.) I've tried the "drive it like you stole it" approach with the RX-8, and quite frankly I was left wanting. That driving attitude transfers very nicely to the STi on all surfaces however :)

7.) I agree with you about the Elise, however we're talking about a car that neither of us could even get at this moment for anything short of several thousand dollars over MSRP. Which leaves me believeing that if you have a budget of around 30k and want a purists car the STi and Evo are the best choices, not the one that you consider to be the sportscar.

wait, are you saying IkeWRX has something negative to say about the RX8 yet something positive about the STI.... mental note

I paid $29k for my STI. $32k for my RX8. Of course my Rx8 was fully loaded with all the goodies and I purchased it well over a year ago ($500 below invoice), but comparably equipped they are very close in price. I'm not talking about the blowout deals on the leftover 04 rx8s either. The limited quantity and high demand will never allow the STI to reach prices that leftover rx8s have reached. Either way, you get what you pay for. The STi is every bit of a bargain as the RX8, but will not seem that way to people who don't want the performance goodies the STI gives you. The difference in MSRP is because the STI pretty much comes with everything performance wise. You can buy a base model RX8 and save tons, but once you start loading it up, the price goes up, and starts hitting STI territory and then some. You really can't compare them price wise.I agree both are well priced, but I'm confused by your post. You wrote that "you can't compare them price wise", but you also wrote "comparably equipped they are very close in price". What amenities/features does the STI have that need to be added to the base RX8 6-speed to make it comparably equipped? (as much as they can be since they're such different animals)

1.) The STi is being sold around $500 over Invoice from what I can tell, not RX-8 discounts but people aren't beinf forced to pay MSRP anymore. Therefore I still say an RX-8 with packages that fall in at 32-33k is a fair comparison.

3.) So if a car understeers yet handles better what does that mean then? Because I feel the understeering STi is a better handler than the bodyrolling RX-8. It's the case with both cars that those things can be tuned out or made better with the addition with aftermarket parts. Also I wouldn't go as far to say the Rx-8 is a soft ride, it has its harsh moments as well. Tossable, that goes to the STi, fling it around all you want and it just asks for me. Nimble, I'll give that to the RX-8.

4.) Your sportscar platform is flawed considering the platform for all Imprezas was developed with the WRC in mind. Cars like the Impreza RS were born out of the STi and WRX, not the other way around. It's not nor has it ever been a modified econo car chassis.

7.) I agree with you about the Elise, however we're talking about a car that neither of us could even get at this moment for anything short of several thousand dollars over MSRP. Which leaves me believeing that if you have a budget of around 30k and want a purists car the STi and Evo are the best choices, not the one that you consider to be the sportscar.1. So that would make the STI ~$6k more than the base RX8 6-speed. I have the same question for you as what I asked VikingDJ: What packages does the RX8 need to make it comparable to the STI? (as much as they can be since they're such different animals)

3. If a car understeers, then it does worse in situations in which understeer sends it into the cone/wall/tree/ditch/whatever (it might have better handling in other situations). If carA has more body roll and can still switch directions faster than carB with less body roll, then why does it matter that carA has more body roll? That just means if you get rid of the roll, carA will do even better.

4. LOL, and you accused us of paying too much attention to marketing gimmicks. The STI package derives much from the WRC cars, but the platform it's based on was used in almost 100,000 Imprezas and Foresters in the USA in 2004 (I dunno how many more are sold world-wide). Sure a few design decisions could've been made with the WRC in mind, but obviously the current Impreza/Forester platform was primarily developed for building inexpensive and mass-produced AWD sedans, wagons, and pseudo-SUVs.

7. Depends on what you mean by a purist. Some purists wouldn't touch the EVO and STI since they have AWD or because they are somewhat heavy. Others might dismiss the RX8 along with the EVO and STI because they all have 4 doors. Or they might be all dismissed just because they have 4 seats. Or, as you point out, some might dislike the RX8 because it's more refined. IMHO, at ~$30k, the most traditional sports cars are probably the S2k (despite its LCD tach) and the Miata.

Ahh only just saw this. I sold my 04 STi and bought an 04 RX8 and have not looked back. I took a 7k loss on the STi (sold privately) in that I bought the first one the dealer received, and proceded to spend 5k on aftermarket crap... only then did I realize that the car was not the right fit for me... I previously drove a 99 M3 and was looking for a similar feel... expensive learning curve on my part, but I was chasing power.

The only joy the STi gave me was a track day with the BMWCCA... I outpaced three 02 M3's driven at a fairly competent level.... the rest of the time the car felt like a bucket of bolts...

S

IMHO, at ~$30k, the most traditional sports cars are probably the S2k (despite its LCD tach) and the Miata.
$15K
Yes, yes I have a problem.
:p

^ I'm assuming IkeWRX's $30k applied to new cars. Talking about used cars for $30k will add another 10 pages to this thread :D

1. So that would make the STI ~$6k more than the base RX8 6-speed. I have the same question for you as what I asked VikingDJ: What packages does the RX8 need to make it comparable to the STI? (as much as they can be since they're such different animals)

3. If a car understeers, then it does worse in situations in which understeer sends it into the cone/wall/tree/ditch/whatever (it might have better handling in other situations). If carA has more body roll and can still switch directions faster than carB with less body roll, then why does it matter that carA has more body roll? That just means if you get rid of the roll, carA will do even better.

4. LOL, and you accused us of paying too much attention to marketing gimmicks. The STI package derives much from the WRC cars, but the platform it's based on was used in almost 100,000 Imprezas and Foresters in the USA in 2004 (I dunno how many more are sold world-wide). Sure a few design decisions could've been made with the WRC in mind, but obviously the current Impreza/Forester platform was primarily developed for building inexpensive and mass-produced AWD sedans, wagons, and pseudo-SUVs.

7. Depends on what you mean by a purist. Some purists wouldn't touch the EVO and STI since they have AWD or because they are somewhat heavy. Others might dismiss the RX8 along with the EVO and STI because they all have 4 doors. Or they might be all dismissed just because they have 4 seats. Or, as you point out, some might dislike the RX8 because it's more refined. IMHO, at ~$30k, the most traditional sports cars are probably the S2k (despite its LCD tach) and the Miata.

3.) If we're talking instances of hitting something I can guarantee you that oversteer causes people to hit things far more often when pushing a car to it's limits, not understeer. I've raced on tracks for countless hours and I can't recall going off a track as a result of understeer. Autocross and going a little wide, sure I've clipped a cone, but almost every cone I've ever hit was an inside cone or a result of a spin caused by snap oversteer.

4.) It's not a marketing gimmick, this chasis was designed as a replacement for the Legacy in the WRC. I've never heard Subaru mention it let alone market it based on that. If it's a good platform why wouldn't they use it on other vehicles, using an existing platform even if it's a little more expensive or rom a sporty car is still most cost effective than designing a new one.

^ I'm assuming IkeWRX's $30k applied to new cars. Talking about used cars for $30k will add another 10 pages to this thread :D

Yeah, I'm sure there's a used Elise for less than 30k somewhere in the US (not the federal Elise).

$15K
Yes, yes I have a problem.
:p

You're so hungup on this car, have you driven one? I've drive them many times and used to track one quite often. Now it WAS a great car but there are many cars available today that would make it feel like a turd.

RX-8 = Heated Seats
STi = Intercooler sprayer
RX-8 = TCS
STi = DCCD

Four features, the STi's are designed to make you go faster, the RX-8's will keep your butt on the road and warm at the same time.

1. So that would make the STI ~$6k more than the base RX8 6-speed. I have the same question for you as what I asked VikingDJ: What packages does the RX8 need to make it comparable to the STI? (as much as they can be since they're such different animals)


OK I'll try to answer that one directly. For 6k more, you get, well, 300hp and 300 torque, AWD, fully controllable automatic and manually adjustable differential which lets you control power to front or rear wheels, IC water sprayer, adjustable HID lights, front and rear limited slip differentials, automatic climate control, ground effects, other high perfoance tuning parts for easy modding, ect ect ect. It's basically a compromise. One car gives you what the other lacks. The mechanics of this car simply raise the price of it. If you don't care or want any of that, then there's no point to even buying one. Basically the packages you can add to RX8 make it just as nice of a refined luxury performance coupe as the STi does a RAW balls out high performance sedan. My comparison to these cars comparabbly equipped was purely based on price, because you are talking two different breeds for two different purposes. The fact is that you can build a top of line RX8 to cost more then a top of line STI, because the STI has virtually all standard features, whereas the RX8 starts out small, and you can add goodies and refinements to make it a better car. I'd say why not make life easier and build a 300hp RX8 with all the goodies each car has. :)

I am not even going to finish reading this thread. People:

1. The STi is much more of a sports car than the RX8 will ever be -out of a dealer. In fact, the STi is much more of a sports car than most "sports cars" currently out there. So STOP THE BULL$h|7.

2. The STi is quirky, the EVO is quirky, the RX8 is quirky. I hope I don't hear a single more God darn comment about it from now on.

Let me just list a few things to refresh your memory, and if anyone has any questions, go read the friggin' Satisfaction Survey thread:

a. Flodding.
b. Oil Consumption.
c. Gas mileage.
d. Rattles (YES! Freaking rattles on the 8)
e. Interior trim breaking (before you even think about it: center console!)

Should I really go on? Exhaust soot, runs PIG rich, pings and dings with 87 gas, clutch & tranmission are very very uneven in quality from car to car, sqeaky brakes, brake dust, rain, dust and bugs. Is that a broad enough list of things that happen to our RX8?

Well.....now, stop the $h|7 about the STi's of the world.....they are a much MORE performance oriented car than ours. BIG FRIGGIN' DEAL. Live with it...stop busting Ike's nutts and smoke a cigarrette to relax.

I am not even going to finish reading this thread. People:

1. The STi is much more of a sports car than the RX8 will ever be -out of a dealer. In fact, the STi is much more of a sports car than most "sports cars" currently out there. So STOP THE BULL$h|7.

2. The STi is quirky, the EVO is quirky, the RX8 is quirky. I hope I don't hear a single more God darn comment about it from now on.

Let me just list a few things to refresh your memory, and if anyone has any questions, go read the friggin' Satisfaction Survey thread:

a. Flodding.
b. Oil Consumption.
c. Gas mileage.
d. Rattles (YES! Freaking rattles on the 8)
e. Interior trim breaking (before you even think about it: center console!)

Should I really go on? Exhaust soot, runs PIG rich, pings and dings with 87 gas, clutch & tranmission are very very uneven in quality from car to car, sqeaky brakes, brake dust, rain, dust and bugs. Is that a broad enough list of things that happen to our RX8?

Well.....now, stop the $h|7 about the STi's of the world.....they are a much MORE performance oriented car than ours. BIG FRIGGIN' DEAL. Live with it...stop busting Ike's nutts and smoke a cigarrette to relax.

...and cats & dogs, living together...

LOL

3.) If we're talking instances of hitting something I can guarantee you that oversteer causes people to hit things far more often when pushing a car to it's limits, not understeer. I've raced on tracks for countless hours and I can't recall going off a track as a result of understeer. Autocross and going a little wide, sure I've clipped a cone, but almost every cone I've ever hit was an inside cone or a result of a spin caused by snap oversteer.

4.) It's not a marketing gimmick, this chasis was designed as a replacement for the Legacy in the WRC. I've never heard Subaru mention it let alone market it based on that. If it's a good platform why wouldn't they use it on other vehicles, using an existing platform even if it's a little more expensive or rom a sporty car is still most cost effective than designing a new one.
3. That's nice, but oversteer vs understeer isn't the issue here and completely misses the point: understeer is itself a handling attribute while body roll is something that causes negative handling attributes. Again, "if carA has more body roll and can still switch directions faster than carB with less body roll, then why does it matter that carA has more body roll?"

4. Today's Impreza is a lot heavier than the '93 (when the Impreza replaced the Legacy in the WRC, if I remember correctly) and, as I mentioned, is now a shared platform with a pseudo-SUV. When I got my '02 WRX, there was all sorts of marketing stuff talking about the WRC STI. There's nothing wrong with that; the Impreza's impressive WRC heritage deserves respect and I'm not saying it's a bad platform. But despite the following ""The STI package derives much from the WRC cars, but the platform it's based on was used in almost 100,000 Imprezas and Foresters in the USA in 2004 (I dunno how many more are sold world-wide).", you still disagree with "Sure a few design decisions could've been made with the WRC in mind, but obviously the current Impreza/Forester platform was primarily developed for building inexpensive and mass-produced AWD sedans, wagons, and pseudo-SUVs."? My point was simply that a pure sports car platform has some inherent advantages.

I am not even going to finish reading this thread. People:

1. The STi is much more of a sports car than the RX8 will ever be -out of a dealer. In fact, the STi is much more of a sports car than most "sports cars" currently out there. So STOP THE BULL$h|7.

2. The STi is quirky, the EVO is quirky, the RX8 is quirky. I hope I don't hear a single more God darn comment about it from now on.

Let me just list a few things to refresh your memory, and if anyone has any questions, go read the friggin' Satisfaction Survey thread:

a. Flodding.
b. Oil Consumption.
c. Gas mileage.
d. Rattles (YES! Freaking rattles on the 8)
e. Interior trim breaking (before you even think about it: center console!)

Should I really go on? Exhaust soot, runs PIG rich, pings and dings with 87 gas, clutch & tranmission are very very uneven in quality from car to car, sqeaky brakes, brake dust, rain, dust and bugs. Is that a broad enough list of things that happen to our RX8?

Well.....now, stop the $h|7 about the STi's of the world.....they are a much MORE performance oriented car than ours. BIG FRIGGIN' DEAL. Live with it...stop busting Ike's nutts and smoke a cigarrette to relax.I've posted a couple times now how much I like the STI and that it outperforms the 8. However, a sports car is only one of many types of performance vehicles and the 8's dynamics are more like a sports cars than the STI's. Almost none of what you wrote has anything to do with what a sports car is and your post illustrates why people should read threads before contributing to them.

OK I'll try to answer that one directly. For 6k more, you get, well, 300hp and 300 torque, AWD, fully controllable automatic and manually adjustable differential which lets you control power to front or rear wheels, IC water sprayer, adjustable HID lights, front and rear limited slip differentials, automatic climate control, ground effects, other high perfoance tuning parts for easy modding, ect ect ect. It's basically a compromise. One car gives you what the other lacks. The mechanics of this car simply raise the price of it. If you don't care or want any of that, then there's no point to even buying one. Basically the packages you can add to RX8 make it just as nice of a refined luxury performance coupe as the STi does a RAW balls out high performance sedan. My comparison to these cars comparabbly equipped was purely based on price, because you are talking two different breeds for two different purposes. The fact is that you can build a top of line RX8 to cost more then a top of line STI, because the STI has virtually all standard features, whereas the RX8 starts out small, and you can add goodies and refinements to make it a better car. I'd say why not make life easier and build a 300hp RX8 with all the goodies each car has. :)
No one is questioning what the extra $6k for the STI gets you. You previously wrote that "you can't compare them price wise", but you also wrote "comparably equipped they are very close in price", which is a bit confusing. A $30k Rx8 doesn't have better driving dynamics than a $24k one (unless you're adding a lighter flywheel, suspension upgrade, etc but those types of things are not included with the packages) and there's no reason to assume $6k of luxury items need to be added to the RX8 before it should be compared to the STI. The STI will still be rawer and more powerful and the RX8 lighter and more balanced. The only regular package I could see an argument for is the Sports Package (HID, foglights, TCS/DSC), but that raises the price of the RX8 only $1k.

So ultimately, the RX8 is $6k cheaper unless you want to add HID, foglights, and TSC/DSC (then it's $5k cheaper) or various luxury items (and then it can be priced near or above the STI).

3. That's nice, but oversteer vs understeer isn't the issue here and completely misses the point: understeer is itself a handling attribute while body roll is something that causes negative handling attributes. Again, "if carA has more body roll and can still switch directions faster than carB with less body roll, then why does it matter that carA has more body roll?"

4. Today's Impreza is a lot heavier than the '93 (when the Impreza replaced the Legacy in the WRC, if I remember correctly) and, as I mentioned, is now a shared platform with a pseudo-SUV. When I got my '02 WRX, there was all sorts of marketing stuff talking about the WRC STI. There's nothing wrong with that; the Impreza's impressive WRC heritage deserves respect and I'm not saying it's a bad platform. But despite the following ""The STI package derives much from the WRC cars, but the platform it's based on was used in almost 100,000 Imprezas and Foresters in the USA in 2004 (I dunno how many more are sold world-wide).", you still disagree with "Sure a few design decisions could've been made with the WRC in mind, but obviously the current Impreza/Forester platform was primarily developed for building inexpensive and mass-produced AWD sedans, wagons, and pseudo-SUVs."? My point was simply that a pure sports car platform has some inherent advantages.

3.) If car B is faster than car A through a Slalom and on emergency lane change tests how can you say it switchs directions faster? :) Hey I am not trying to deny that the STi has understeer, the steering on the Evo vs. the steering on the STi is one of few reasons I've considered buying an Evo over an STi. I still contend that the STi feels every bit the sportscar despite this and the only time the understeer would be noticed is in certain turns out on the track. Compared to the Evo MR this understeer that some people make sound so debilitating added up to a whopping .3 seconds around the gingerman track. The Evo MR has some pretty serious suspension upgrades over the regular Evo so I'd say that's pretty damn good. Throw a stiffer rear sway and or adjust the tire pressure on the STi and does it make that .3 seconds? I think so but we'll never know for sure. Does the RX-8 keep up with either of them around the same track? Not a snowballs chance in hell.

4.) So if next year the RX-8 platform is used on another non sportscar Mazda does that make it any less of a sportscar platform when it's used on an RX-8? I think not! Lastly I think we both know know the main reason the new Impreza is heavier is a result of things other than the chassis.

However, a sports car is only one of many types of performance vehicles and the 8's dynamics are more like a sports cars than the STI's.
Could you please make a short list -no explanations needed, just the characteristic- of the dynamics that the 8 posseses over the STi?

Almost none of what you wrote has anything to do with what a sports car is and your post illustrates why people should read threads before contributing to them.Am I supposed to read 5+ pages of mudslinging just to understand what your definition of a sports car is? There is no way in hell. Furthermore, I don't really care what you may idealize as a sports car or sports car dynamics. However, if the RX8 is 'allowed' in the sports car category, it can do so, at the bottom-half of the food chain. By the same token, the STi is further up in that chain and depending where you cut off your list, the 8 may end up as an outkast.

Besides....in my book, this one is a SPORTS CAR, with sports car DYNAMICS:
http://www2.uol.com.br/bestcars/carros/outros/caterham-super7-1.jpg

No one is questioning what the extra $6k for the STI gets you. You previously wrote that "you can't compare them price wise", but you also wrote "comparably equipped they are very close in price", which is a bit confusing. A $30k Rx8 doesn't have better driving dynamics than a $24k one (unless you're adding a lighter flywheel, suspension upgrade, etc but those types of things are not included with the packages) and there's no reason to assume $6k of luxury items need to be added to the RX8 before it should be compared to the STI. The STI will still be rawer and more powerful and the RX8 lighter and more balanced. The only regular package I could see an argument for is the Sports Package (HID, foglights, TCS/DSC), but that raises the price of the RX8 only $1k.

So ultimately, the RX8 is $6k cheaper unless you want to add HID, foglights, and TSC/DSC (then it's $5k cheaper) or various luxury items (and then it can be priced near or above the STI).

Actually we're talking MSRP here, show me a 24k MSRP RX-8. Last I checked the 6MT RX-8 with no options has an MSRP over 27k, throw some extra body molding (which the STi has over the WRX) on along with the HIDS, Fogs, TSC/DSC and you're quickly over 30k.

I'm going to call you on saying it's a 400 lb. difference between the RX-8 and the STi. The RX-8 with that extra body molding has a curb weight of over 3000lbs.(at least that's my recolection), I don't know what new match you're using but it just doesn't add up considering that.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever do any mods to your WRX?

Here's a magazine article to keep you occupied til I get back later and respond. It's a good indication of what can happen to an STi once you give it a few tweaks. You Miata fans will like the article as well :D

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3101&highlight=evo

Subaru should have stuck with the original style imo.....It's the only one I can look at..... :D

Subaru should have stuck with the original style imo.....It's the only one I can look at..... :D

I agree, I think they took a huge step back with the redesign. I just can't consider a car (no matter how great performance wise it is) if it doesn't look great.

You're so hungup on this car, have you driven one? I've drive them many times and used to track one quite often. Now it WAS a great car but there are many cars available today that would make it feel like a turd.
:eek: Of course I have driven it!! There are certainly cars I would rather have than this but that 15K budget really kicks you in the balls sometimes. I want something I can make a dedicated track car in a year or two when I get a job. The other option is to save myself some dough and buy my buddies 99 (I think) Civic hatchback with TypeR drivetrain. It's only downfall is Fwd, other than that it's pretty fun.

:eek: Of course I have driven it!! There are certainly cars I would rather have than this but that 15K budget really kicks you in the balls sometimes. I want something I can make a dedicated track car in a year or two when I get a job. The other option is to save myself some dough and buy my buddies 99 (I think) Civic hatchback with TypeR drivetrain. It's only downfall is Fwd, other than that it's pretty fun.


Have you considered the MR2?

I considered it, it's a nice car. I need something with a little more room though and unmodded mr2's are impossible to find it seems.

Have you considered the MR2?

That's what I suggested to him a long time ago. If I were you I'd be looking for a either a nice MKII MR2 if you want an autox car or a DSM if you want a car you can take to the strip, autox (not very competitive), and rallyx. If you could find a decent 1 or 2g AWD DSM for under 10 grand you'd have plenty of money to play with mods wise and could have anything from a 11 second 1/4 mile beast to your own little rally beast.

I love the E30 M3 as much as anyone, and it will always hold a special place in the car world for me. However when you consider maintenance costs I think the other cars above are a better choice for someone on a budget. Finding a decent E30 will prove more difficult to find than an unmodded and decent MR2 or DSM.

I really really wish I had the money for a project car right now, but I'm buying a house right now and I need to keep my priorities in order :(

I considered it, it's a nice car. I need something with a little more room though and unmodded mr2's are impossible to find it seems.

I think im confused.....you want to get rid of the 8 for a $15,000 dd/track car? I thought you wanted a good project car for the track.......sorry

If you want a dd then the BMW is most definately the wrong choice...imo

It will cost to much to maintain for the amount of performance you'll get out of it....I am a firm believer of having a car for each purpose....that way you can strip the race car and have a nice car to drive on the streets...... :)

...Am I supposed to read 5+ pages of mudslinging...



Actually, I've found the vast majority of this thread as a fairly good debate -- strong opinions, yes... but good, spirited discussion, nonetheless. The guys on either side of these issues have tended to take reasoned approaches, vice name-calling...

My problem is this: Giving the solara back to my parents, so I need a car that can double as a daily driver. That means, I can throw a bikes and other sports equipment on or in it, I can hold 4 people, get reasonable mileage. I am not too worried about the maintenance, I will do all the myself. On the otherhand, it has to be a fun track car, no autox, I don't like autox. I want to try rallyx, but we'll see about that. Then, I figure in a year or two I will just convert this car into a race car when I buy a daily driver.

You see my problem, it's not good.

I think im confused.....you want to get rid of the 8 for a $15,000 dd/track car? I thought you wanted a good project car for the track.......sorry

If you want a dd then the BMW is most definately the wrong choice...imo

It will cost to much to maintain for the amount of performance you'll get out of it....I am a firm believer of having a car for each purpose....that way you can strip the race car and have a nice car to drive on the streets...... :)
I have no 8 :(
I have a solara. The 8 is intended to be the dd in a year or so. I am not worried about hte maintenace, I can do most if not all of it myself, the part prices might be a little steep. If I could find a well maintained e30 I shouldn't have too many problems, they're supposed to be pretty reliable if properly maintained.

In that case,

this is your best bet!!!!! :)

I have been looking at that thing, it's just so damn slow out the box. Of course, I could fix that. It would be sweet if I ever tried rallyx though!!

I always pictured myself rallying in a 323 GTX

I have been looking at that thing, it's just so damn slow out the box. Of course, I could fix that.

Have you ever driven one?

I found the acceleration to be pretty good.....hell, I almost bought one in 1999 but went with the integra type r instead.....I say the subaru is the best platform for rally and is a descent daily driver for the money.....The aftermarket support is there so more power is readily available plus you would have a good reason to take a drive in a snow storm.... :D I would stay away from the Talons.....as they tend to break down a lot.... :eek:

The 323 awd turbo was a sweet car for its time but aftermarket support is not there and it is not the best looking car if you are planning to use it as your daily driver......It makes for a great sleeper tho, not many ppl know about these cars and the stock bottom end will support 400whp.... the weakest link for these cars is the tranny....I'd still stick with the impreza.....for the looks.... :cool:

I haven't driven the subaru for a while, a buddy had one a few years ago. It's probably faster than the e30 M3, but that thing feels fast. I'll see what I can do about driving one, I see a blue one around here often with a female owner, time to turn up that charm :D

Model tested (MSRP): Impreza 2.5 RS Coupe
Standard equipment: all-wheel drive, air conditioning, power windows, locks and side mirrors, AM/FM stereo cassette, accessory power outlet, dead pedal, tilt steering, cruise control, viscous limited-slip rear differential
Options as tested (MSRP): carpeted floor mats ($64); subwoofer/amplifier ($310); premium speakers ($100); CD player ($120); remote keyless entry ($225)
Destination charge: N/A
Gas guzzler tax: N/A
Price as tested (MSRP): $20,809 US
Layout: four-wheel drive
Engine: 2.5-liter sohc 16v horizontally opposed-4
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 165 @ 5600
Torque (lb.-ft. @ rpm): 166 @ 4000
Transmission: 5-speed manual
EPA fuel economy, city/hwy: 22/29 mpg
Wheelbase: 99.2 in.
Length/width/height: 172.2/67.1/55.5 in.
Track, f/r: 57.9/57.1 in.
Turning circle: 33.5 ft.
Seating capacity: 5
Head/hip/leg room, f: 38.0/52.6/43.1 in.
Head/hip/leg room, m: N/A
Head/hip/leg room, r: 38.0/52.6/43.1 in.
Cargo volume: 11.1 cu. ft.
Payload: N/A
Towing capacity: 1500 Lbs.
Suspension, f: Independent
Suspension, r: Independent
Ground clearance: N/A
Curb weight: 2840 lbs.
Tires: P205/55R16
Brakes, f/r: vented disc/solid disc w/ ABS
Fuel capacity: 15.9 gal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
at 2800lbs and 165hp, 166lbs it moves pretty well...;)

3.) If car B is faster than car A through a Slalom and on emergency lane change tests how can you say it switchs directions faster? :) Hey I am not trying to deny that the STi has understeer, the steering on the Evo vs. the steering on the STi is one of few reasons I've considered buying an Evo over an STi. I still contend that the STi feels every bit the sportscar despite this and the only time the understeer would be noticed is in certain turns out on the track. Compared to the Evo MR this understeer that some people make sound so debilitating added up to a whopping .3 seconds around the gingerman track. The Evo MR has some pretty serious suspension upgrades over the regular Evo so I'd say that's pretty damn good. Throw a stiffer rear sway and or adjust the tire pressure on the STi and does it make that .3 seconds? I think so but we'll never know for sure. Does the RX-8 keep up with either of them around the same track? Not a snowballs chance in hell.Some cars that do well in mag tests don't feel as connected to the road.
4.) So if next year the RX-8 platform is used on another non sportscar Mazda does that make it any less of a sportscar platform when it's used on an RX-8? I think not! Lastly I think we both know know the main reason the new Impreza is heavier is a result of things other than the chassis.The RX8 platform is not suitable for a wagon/SUV. The RS increased 150+ pounds since the previous generation. Sure there are some new features, but not 150 pounds worth.Actually we're talking MSRP here, show me a 24k MSRP RX-8. Last I checked the 6MT RX-8 with no options has an MSRP over 27k, throw some extra body molding (which the STi has over the WRX) on along with the HIDS, Fogs, TSC/DSC and you're quickly over 30k. So in reality the RX8 6-speed is $6k cheaper than the STI (as I wrote), but the MSRPs are $5k apart.
I'm going to call you on saying it's a 400 lb. difference between the RX-8 and the STi. The RX-8 with that extra body molding has a curb weight of over 3000lbs.(at least that's my recolection), I don't know what new match you're using but it just doesn't add up considering that. The base 6-speed weighs <2900 pounds. The STI weighs 3298 if I remember correctly.
Just out of curiosity, did you ever do any mods to your WRX?Yes (mostly to improve the handling and shifter).

Could you please make a short list -no explanations needed, just the characteristic- of the dynamics that the 8 posseses over the STi?Read the thread.
Am I supposed to read 5+ pages of mudslinging just to understand what your definition of a sports car is? There is no way in hell.So you have time to write, but not read? While I disagree with IkeWRX, at least he reads threads before adding to them.

Some cars that do well in mag tests don't feel as connected to the road.

The RX8 platform is not suitable for a wagon/SUV.

The RS increased 150+ pounds since the previous generation.

Sure there are some new features, but not 150 pounds worth.

So in reality the RX8 6-speed is $6k cheaper than the STI (as I wrote), but the MSRPs are $5k apart.

The base 6-speed weighs <2900 pounds. The STI weighs 3298 if I remember correctly.

Yes (mostly to improve the handling and shifter).

1.) Yes, but the STi is far from being one of them.

2.) What makes you so sure? I'm still waiting for the explanation of why you think the weight is is lower on the RX-8 than the STi as well as many other things I've pointed out...

3.) They're called safety regulations, airbags and various reinforcements are not light.

4.) If you want one with the sporty body molding like the STi has over the WRX they're about the same price.

5.) It absolutely does not weigh less than 2900 lbs when we're talking curb weight. Which I thought was 3029 for the base MT, the curb weight of the 04 STi is 3263 and 3298 which is probably a bit more since it has a stereo standard.

6.) What mods?

Have you ever driven one?

I found the acceleration to be pretty good.....hell, I almost bought one in 1999 but went with the integra type r instead.....I say the subaru is the best platform for rally and is a descent daily driver for the money.....The aftermarket support is there so more power is readily available plus you would have a good reason to take a drive in a snow storm.... :D I would stay away from the Talons.....as they tend to break down a lot.... :eek:

I love the little 2.5RS, the people above me are driving one right now that belongs to their father since their car is in for repairs. I guess it's just been sitting in a garage for the past year. It's pristine and I guess it's for sale for rather cheap... Every time I see it I keep thinking about how fun it would be to swap my engine into it :)

As for the Talons (DSMs) thye get a bad rap due to crankwalk on a few model years. Get an early 1gs gen and most second gens are good as well. They aren't the most reliable things on the road, but parts are plentiful and cheap.

Here are some pics of a car that a guy I know from autox now rallies. He got tired of rallying his daily driver so he went out and got him self this...

Plus a photo of an Impreza just for kicks :)

I love the little 2.5RS, the people above me are driving one right now that belongs to their father since their car is in for repairs. I guess it's just been sitting in a garage for the past year. It's pristine and I guess it's for sale for rather cheap... Every time I see it I keep thinking about how fun it would be to swap my engine into it :)

As for the Talons (DSMs) thye get a bad rap due to crankwalk on a few model years. Get an early 1gs gen and most second gens are good as well. They aren't the most reliable things on the road, but parts are plentiful and cheap.


I was a huge fan of the impreza before 2001...the rs coupes had a nice agressive look....they had a great thing going with that look....imo.........I would have bought one if they kept the coupe and it came with the sti motor.... :D

why oh why did they discontinue the coupe.....granted the sti looks better than the older WRX but I still like my coupes... ;)

Behold, the holy grail of all that is Subaru. This car makes me want to weep...

Behold, the holy grail of all that is Subaru. This car makes me want to weep...

If only subaru came out with that car now..... :(

The base 6-speed weighs <2900 pounds.

Concur, but prolly not fully loaded w/gas.

Used my RX8 to haul about 600 lbs of payload, plus my dog, Tucker :) this past Summer up to DC area for a reassignment.

I have a base MT with the sport package and a spare tire kit. Empty weight, with about half a tank of gas, minus the spare, but still with the strut bace/bracket, was a bit less than 2900 lbs. One place was around 2850, but I thought that was way low, so I had it weighed at another place, and that was closer to 2900.

Interestingly, IIRC the GVWR is somewhere around 3700-3800 lbs, so I couldv'e conceivably carried another 200 lbs or so (I wasn't wearing a roof rack at the time, but that would be the way to go...)

1.) Yes, but the STi is far from being one of them.

2.) What makes you so sure? I'm still waiting for the explanation of why you think the weight is is lower on the RX-8 than the STi as well as many other things I've pointed out...

3.) They're called safety regulations, airbags and various reinforcements are not light.

4.) If you want one with the sporty body molding like the STi has over the WRX they're about the same price.

5.) It absolutely does not weigh less than 2900 lbs when we're talking curb weight. Which I thought was 3029 for the base MT, the curb weight of the 04 STi is 3263 and 3298 which is probably a bit more since it has a stereo standard.

6.) What mods?1) That's your opinion... guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

2) Too small, and has been designed for chassis stiffness, balance, perfect weight distribution, low yaw moment. That adds some cost and it wouldn't make financial sense for Mazda to use that in a higher production wagon/SUV. I'm still hoping someone will come out with a cheap RWD platform that has those features and allows for more platform sharing (beyond a couple sports cars). Maybe Kappa will end up doing it, but last I read the Chevy Nomad isn't happening and the only planned cars based on it are the Pontiac and Saturn roadsters... and they weigh 2860 pounds! (~400 more than the rumored weight of the upcoming NC Miata) And they're not design for mass production. I think I answered your other questions in previous posts.

3) That doesn't add up to 150 pounds going from the prev generation to the current one. I attribute the increase partly to that stuff, but mostly to it being a larger car now (the greenhouse dimensions have grown quite a bit, yes?)

4) So you're saying we should spend $6k to make the RX8 as pretty as the STI? :p

5) Yes it does. Mazda lists 3029 with popular options... why they decided to list it that way has been a source for conjecture, but if you do some research you'll see that many have weighed their RX8s at ~2880 pounds (and some mags have reported 2933 pounds, though I forget if that was with the sport package or not).

6) Nothing too drastic: swaybars, short throw, exhaust, a few other things. I was going to replace the suspension, but after driving a couple WRXs with modified suspension, I was less impressed than I expected. And I was unhappy with my local Subaru service department (who lied to me a couple times and were generally incompetent) and I was afraid if I went too far with mods, they might start to give me a hassle over warranty work (suspension was just one of many things I had planned).

While the WRX was the best car I'd owned till that point (easy to mod, grin-inducing boost rush, AWD), there were some things I found lacking.... I disliked the understeer and I missed the nimble feel, steering feedback, instant throttle response, and quick short-throw shifter of my old GSR (the fastest cars aren't always the most fun). Mods can mimimize some of those things, but not all... at some point, you need to start with a new foundation. So the idea of getting something else had been floating in the back of my mind anyway and while I was figuring out what mod (if any) to do next, we decided to have a second child. The WRX having only one child-seat anchor pushed the decision over the edge and I started looking at other cars such as a used 328, G35s, EVO, and Forester XT (I wasn't about to go back to FWD). Drove the RX8 a few times and decided it was more fun than the others, despite being gutless down low (I previewed before posting and realized the last paragraph goes beyond the scope of your mods question... but it's relevant to the whole RX8 vs Impreza / sports car vs performance vs fun car discussion, so I left it in)

Read the thread. I've read more than enough in the first pages.
So you have time to write, but not read? While I disagree with IkeWRX, at least he reads threads before adding to them.Don't be a smartass. I really don't know why Ike takes the time to read and respond to some of the BS they throw out there.....

I traded my 02 RS in on my RX8.

I had a full Cobb exhaust, short shift, and lightened pulleys.

I planned on getting a S/C kit when one was available, but with all the horror stories I heard of with boosting the 25RS, I decided to get rid of it.

The 8 IMO hands 10x better. But, I could thro the Suby into almost any corner and not worry much about it.

I am constantly trying to remember the 8 is RWD, already flipped an unintentional bitch once.

1) That's your opinion... guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

2) Too small, and has been designed for chassis stiffness, balance, perfect weight distribution, low yaw moment. That adds some cost and it wouldn't make financial sense for Mazda to use that in a higher production wagon/SUV. I'm still hoping someone will come out with a cheap RWD platform that has those features and allows for more platform sharing (beyond a couple sports cars). Maybe Kappa will end up doing it, but last I read the Chevy Nomad isn't happening and the only planned cars based on it are the Pontiac and Saturn roadsters... and they weigh 2860 pounds! (~400 more than the rumored weight of the upcoming NC Miata) And they're not design for mass production. I think I answered your other questions in previous posts.

3) That doesn't add up to 150 pounds going from the prev generation to the current one. I attribute the increase partly to that stuff, but mostly to it being a larger car now (the greenhouse dimensions have grown quite a bit, yes?)

4) So you're saying we should spend $6k to make the RX8 as pretty as the STI? :p

5) Yes it does. Mazda lists 3029 with popular options... why they decided to list it that way has been a source for conjecture, but if you do some research you'll see that many have weighed their RX8s at ~2880 pounds (and some mags have reported 2933 pounds, though I forget if that was with the sport package or not).

6) Nothing too drastic: swaybars, short throw, exhaust, a few other things. I was going to replace the suspension, but after driving a couple WRXs with modified suspension, I was less impressed than I expected. And I was unhappy with my local Subaru service department (who lied to me a couple times and were generally incompetent) and I was afraid if I went too far with mods, they might start to give me a hassle over warranty work (suspension was just one of many things I had planned).

While the WRX was the best car I'd owned till that point (easy to mod, grin-inducing boost rush, AWD), there were some things I found lacking.... I disliked the understeer and I missed the nimble feel, steering feedback, instant throttle response, and quick short-throw shifter of my old GSR (the fastest cars aren't always the most fun). Mods can mimimize some of those things, but not all... at some point, you need to start with a new foundation. So the idea of getting something else had been floating in the back of my mind anyway and while I was figuring out what mod (if any) to do next, we decided to have a second child. The WRX having only one child-seat anchor pushed the decision over the edge and I started looking at other cars such as a used 328, G35s, EVO, and Forester XT (I wasn't about to go back to FWD). Drove the RX8 a few times and decided it was more fun than the others, despite being gutless down low (I previewed before posting and realized the last paragraph goes beyond the scope of your mods question... but it's relevant to the whole RX8 vs Impreza / sports car vs performance vs fun car discussion, so I left it in)

1.) Find me one person on that planet that's driven an STi a fair amount that thinks an STi doesn't feel connected to the road. I'm assuming you haven't driven one much simply from that statement but correct me if I'm wrong.

2.) I still don't buy the chassis stuff, yes the RX-8 has a nice one. However explaining how nice the RX-8 chassis is does nothing to dispute my claim the the Impreza chassis is great as well.

3.) The safety stuff could easily add up to 150 pounds with upgraded bumper beams and extra airbags.

4.) Nope, I'm saying the STi is cheaper than a loaded RX-8 yet more expensive than a base model. Therefore I think it's a fair comparison price wise.

5.) What people have reported weighing their cars is not curb weight. I've been led to believe the 3029 was the sport package, but maybe that's not the case... No matter how you add it up the STi isn't 400lbs heavier unless the curb weight of your RX-8 is sub 2900 which I've never seen a claim that low.

6.) TBE? And did you have wheels and tires or the stockers?

I can understand why you made the switch and I can certainly see why someone would like an RX-8 better than a WRX. They're very different cars each with its own strengths and weaknesses.

1.) Find me one person on that planet that's driven an STi a fair amount that thinks an STi doesn't feel connected to the road. I'm assuming you haven't driven one much simply from that statement but correct me if I'm wrong.

2.) I still don't buy the chassis stuff, yes the RX-8 has a nice one. However explaining how nice the RX-8 chassis is does nothing to dispute my claim the the Impreza chassis is great as well.

3.) The safety stuff could easily add up to 150 pounds with upgraded bumper beams and extra airbags.

4.) Nope, I'm saying the STi is cheaper than a loaded RX-8 yet more expensive than a base model. Therefore I think it's a fair comparison price wise.

5.) What people have reported weighing their cars is not curb weight. I've been led to believe the 3029 was the sport package, but maybe that's not the case... No matter how you add it up the STi isn't 400lbs heavier unless the curb weight of your RX-8 is sub 2900 which I've never seen a claim that low.

6.) TBE? And did you have wheels and tires or the stockers?

I can understand why you made the switch and I can certainly see why someone would like an RX-8 better than a WRX. They're very different cars each with its own strengths and weaknesses.

Well said Ike. I think the sport package is around 2960 or so per one of our members. I think Brillo weighed his car at a truck stop and that's what he got. Though there could be some discrepancies there. Either way, these cars are completely different with different consumers in mind. The STI is one of the nicest cars for 30k if you want something that handles like a charm and moves like a bat out of hell. The RX8, IMO is a little more grown up(don't know if everyone will understand this analogy). It handles nicely, has a bit of power, is comfortable and has more amenities than the STI rocket. Both are great cars but cater to different audiences. I definitely wouldn't mind driving an STI at some point in the future.

1.) Find me one person on that planet that's driven an STi a fair amount that thinks an STi doesn't feel connected to the road. I'm assuming you haven't driven one much simply from that statement but correct me if I'm wrong.

2.) I still don't buy the chassis stuff, yes the RX-8 has a nice one. However explaining how nice the RX-8 chassis is does nothing to dispute my claim the the Impreza chassis is great as well.

3.) The safety stuff could easily add up to 150 pounds with upgraded bumper beams and extra airbags.

4.) Nope, I'm saying the STi is cheaper than a loaded RX-8 yet more expensive than a base model. Therefore I think it's a fair comparison price wise.

5.) What people have reported weighing their cars is not curb weight. I've been led to believe the 3029 was the sport package, but maybe that's not the case... No matter how you add it up the STi isn't 400lbs heavier unless the curb weight of your RX-8 is sub 2900 which I've never seen a claim that low.

6.) TBE? And did you have wheels and tires or the stockers?

I can understand why you made the switch and I can certainly see why someone would like an RX-8 better than a WRX. They're very different cars each with its own strengths and weaknesses.Just got back in town...

1) Many reviews picked the EVO over the STI because the EVO has tighter steering and quicker reflexes. However, I don't think I wrote that the STI feels disconnected from the road, but rather that it doesn't feel as connected. Yes, I've driven the STI (I was lucky enough to play with a 2005). I wasn't in the driver's seat for more than 20 minutes and I only hit 100 once, so - as I wrote before - my experience is limited (though I should mention that we went 130 while I was in the passenger seat). Again, let me say that I fully understand the STI's performance advantages: it crushes the RX8 in pretty much every way. The STI's acceleration is amazing and the power is on tap at mid-range RPM (you don't need to constantly work the shifter like you do with the RX8). Handling (apart from some understeer) is also excellent and steering, while not quite as tight as the RX8's, isn't bad by any means (both of those were improved going from 2004 to 2005). However, while the STI turns quickly, it feels heavier than the RX8, which seems almost like it *enjoys* changing directions.

2) Never said Impreza chassis was bad. It's just not as good as the RX8's.

3) The current Impreza is larger and taller than the previous one and it looks like it has more glass up high. The extra 150 pounds is not all bumper beams and extra air bags.

4) It's a fair comparison, as long as the price ranges are noted. My 6-speed RX8 was $7-8k cheaper than the STI. And if you want to compare a loaded RX8 to an STI, than you might as well compare a loaded WRX to a base RX8 (since the loaded WRX is more expensive).

5) 3029 is loaded with options. I've read several articles that reported the weight as 2933 (not sure if that was the base model or sport package). Many owners have weighed their cars and come up with 2875-2880 pounds. If that's not curb weight, then what is it? In any case, that puts the base 6-speed RX8 somewhere between 365 and 423 pounds lighter than the STI, which is why I wrote 400. Even if you discount the sub 2900 numbers, 365 is a substantial difference and within 10% of 400 pounds. And as much as I love the boxer with its low COG, the STI has a fair amount of stuff mounted above it and it's a taller car. Plus the boxer is not midship and the STI fuel tank is not mounted in front of the rear axle like the RX8's (so the RX8's mass is concentrated closer to the center of the car).

I can understand why people would choose the STI... I've noted my admiration for it multiple times now.

One final note: while I don't like the STI's stiff ride (very punishing for an everyday driver), understeer (though it's pretty mild), heavier feel, inferior shifter (not as quick and smooth), huge seats (I slid all over the place in them), and slightly looser steering, I likely would've bought one instead had it cost the same as my RX8. But my point was that the RX8 does have some driving dynamics advantages and some of those things are sports-car-feel. And with that, I'm done with this thread.

I still think the sti is not a daily driver. And I also think most of the owners do not take it to the track.

But, I agree it is not a comparison between the two cars. The 8 is a GT, the sti and evo are something else. Not really sports cars, in the classic sense. I guess ralley car is the best discription (shrugs)

I would classify them as true rice rockets (in a good sense). A 1988 CRX with 95HP is no way a rocket.

I feel guilty for saying this but if the RX8 had a high output turbocharged engine like the STI or Evo, I can say the RX8 can be close to perfect. Those I4 are pretty small and comparable to the 2 Rotor Renesis if you mount them transverse. Imagine getting at least 260HP crank and no flooding issues and 25MPG at least. I for one love the RX8 as a car, but not the powerplant.

i just got done catching up with this thread. IMHO, u guys are stupid freakin stupid stupids. yes, i called u guys stupid three times in the same sentence. how can u compair these cars, so different. 8 is a pimp ride, sti is rice rocket. 32k, u want fast, get evo 8, well, maybe not 32k, prolly around 35k. 32k u want something that will get respect from grown ups when u drive through, rx8. i guess i have to apologize for being so harsh, i just spent past hour reading this thread, and there is no point to it. :confused:

. I for one love the RX8 as a car, but not the powerplant.


The point to the car IS the powerplant, and you can not do this car without it.

Really, the car is more then fast enough for any "real world" driving need.

i just got done catching up with this thread. IMHO, u guys are stupid freakin stupid stupids. yes, i called u guys stupid three times in the same sentence. how can u compair these cars, so different. 8 is a pimp ride, sti is rice rocket. 32k, u want fast, get evo 8, well, maybe not 32k, prolly around 35k. 32k u want something that will get respect from grown ups when u drive through, rx8. i guess i have to apologize for being so harsh, i just spent past hour reading this thread, and there is no point to it. :confused:

We were comparing two sports cars, that was the point of this thread. They're really not all that different in their goal, only their exectution. I guess we forgot the 'pimp' aspects of each car, how stupid of us. You can find lots of other threads dedicated to how 'pimp' the 8 is and how many highschool chicks you can pick up with it. I couldn't care less, I would rather talk about driving them.

I don't know why you think you get respect from 'grown ups' because of the 8, I certainly don't respect people I don't know because of their car. But, lets say it does get you respect, I am sure as soon as you open your mouth, it all that goes out the window. I am confident in making that call because of how "stupid freakin stupid stupid" your post is.

so what did the sti driver do? did he get an RX-8 after all? Perhaps a Legacy GT may suit him better. It is has a claimed 250hp detuned STi engine. And the interior is worlds better than the STi. More refined and classy.

We were comparing two sports cars, that was the point of this thread. They're really not all that different in their goal, only their exectution. I guess we forgot the 'pimp' aspects of each car, how stupid of us. You can find lots of other threads dedicated to how 'pimp' the 8 is and how many highschool chicks you can pick up with it. I couldn't care less, I would rather talk about driving them.

I don't know why you think you get respect from 'grown ups' because of the 8, I certainly don't respect people I don't know because of their car. But, lets say it does get you respect, I am sure as soon as you open your mouth, it all that goes out the window. I am confident in making that call because of how "stupid freakin stupid stupid" your post is.


Tell us how you really feel...no, do not hold back... :)

i went from an FD to a 8 and hve no regrets... granted its not near as mean, but its a LOT more reasonable as a daily driver.

Well, not to hijack my thread back, but the Sti is gone, I did NOT buy a RX8. I took one out for a test drive and while its a nice enough car it just didn't do it for me. While cruisin around looking at various cars I bumped into a 00 s2000 with 25k miles. I took it for a spin for grins and the next thing I knew I owned it.

What can I say... I LIKE the RX8, I even liked my sti, but I LOVE the s2000. I liked it so much I'd rather go buy a beat old jeep to drive if I need something bigger from time to time.

Ah well, thanx for the info guys.

Laters.

I have no 8 :(
I have a solara. The 8 is intended to be the dd in a year or so. I am not worried about hte maintenace, I can do most if not all of it myself, the part prices might be a little steep. If I could find a well maintained e30 I shouldn't have too many problems, they're supposed to be pretty reliable if properly maintained.

greetings from www.m3forum.net. let me tell you that a well maintained, good condition e30 is very difficult to find. but if you do manage to find that perfect car, it will be super reliable and very fun to drive (and sexy as hell too)

We were comparing two sports cars, that was the point of this thread. They're really not all that different in their goal, only their exectution. I guess we forgot the 'pimp' aspects of each car, how stupid of us. You can find lots of other threads dedicated to how 'pimp' the 8 is and how many highschool chicks you can pick up with it. I couldn't care less, I would rather talk about driving them.

I don't know why you think you get respect from 'grown ups' because of the 8, I certainly don't respect people I don't know because of their car. But, lets say it does get you respect, I am sure as soon as you open your mouth, it all that goes out the window. I am confident in making that call because of how "stupid freakin stupid stupid" your post is.

you'd get more respect rolling up in an 8 then a sti cuz the sti looks like something a highschool streetkill ricer would drive. thats if u where like pulling up to a fancy restaurant or social gathering. stupid stupid stupid! :p and i think u would get more highschool chicks in a riced out car rather then something that looks classy like an rx8. as far as ur comparisons are going, so what did u guys decide on? is one more drivable then the other? its already obvious which one goes straight faster. is it not clear on the hp and the torqe specs which one is faster? :D anyway, have fun with ur comparing, gonna do something not so lame. i'm just playin wit u guys, hope nobody's feelings got hurt. :p its all just fun and games. ;)

god reading these posts just makes me want to go out and buy an rx8!:)

Sounds like the STi was just a bad purchase for you in the first place. They're great cars but certainly not for everyone, you sound more like you should be driving an Audi A4 than a sportscar.

the sti is not a sports car.

the sti is not a sports car.

extrememly good point

also i'm offended at your audi comment ike, my dad's s4(looks like a a4 in case you didn't know) would rape most sti's out there(and all stock ones too) so audi isn't that bread and butter of a car.

also i'm offended at your audi comment ike, my dad's s4(looks like a a4 in case you didn't know) would rape most sti's out there(and all stock ones too) so audi isn't that bread and butter of a car.
And your point is.....?

1. "i'm offended"

2. "so audi isn't that bread and butter of a car"

its in the post.

also i'm offended at your audi comment ike, my dad's s4(looks like a a4 in case you didn't know) would rape most sti's out there(and all stock ones too) so audi isn't that bread and butter of a car.


I hope your dad's Audi isn't stock :rolleyes: Also, my last car was an A4 so what would you like to tell me about them :rolleyes: They're boring cars with really nice interiors that can be fast, and I'll never own another one again.

the sti is not a sports car.

It's more sportyscar than any current Mazda or Audi, and people actually use them as such. Also you're a douche for bumping this thread :p

Regards,
Ike

bump a whole not even a month old thread :D

lol sportsy car, im not even going to start in with that. either way, neither audi, subaru, or mazda currently produces a sportscar

can we agree on that ike?

bump a whole not even a month old thread :D

lol sportsy car, im not even going to start in with that. either way, neither audi, subaru, or mazda currently produces a sportscar

can we agree on that ike?

Eh, maybe not by the traditional definition. But IMO opinion that definition needs to be retired and cars like the Evo and STi have more sport in them than any other car on the road for under 50k. Autocross it, drag race it, rally it, they'll do it all and keep asking for more, that's pretty sporty if you ask me.

either way, neither ......... or mazda currently produces a sportscar

Now, I am offended. I wish you would go over the Miata boards, and tell that to everyone. :p

What exactly is people's definition of a sportscar then? I'm very confused. My friend has the ralley edition STI, he bought it new and it didn't even have a radio or anything. But man that thing fly's. His favorite thing to do is to get all 4 wheels off the ground in a mind boggling show of major air. I call it a sports car, if it's ralley, then it's a sport. I wouldn't call the regular WRX a sportscar, but an STI...I might call it a sportscar, although by definition it's a 4 door sedan.

This is the offical definition of a Sports Car as per the Dictionary:

sports car
n.
1. An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.

n 2. : a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons [syn: sport car]

the sti is not a sports car.


Yeah, I think it is.

The old lines have blurred with the new generation of fast, well balanced cars.

4 doors is not the determing factor anymore.

[" don't at all agree with the characterizations of the STI being a sports car and the RX8 a GT. The RX8 has better steering response, a better shifter, better chassis, better weight distribution, better balance, better road feel, and it's more nimble. My 6-speed RX8 weighs 400 pounds less than the STI and the weight is lower to the ground and more concentrated towards the center of the car. All of those things are important in a sports car, not a GT. Also, I don't think the STI's understeer is blown out of proportion... sure, it's better than the WRX, but it's noticeable at the more than just the track. Lastly, the STI's braking isn't better than the RX8.

Even the lowly Miata offers more of a traditional sports car feel than the STI (despite the Miata's lack of power). Don't misunderstand me... the STI is a wonderful vehicle, but it's more of a street legal track car (despite its mediocre steering feel, understeer, and hefty weight). Ultimately, the fact that the RX8 is able to offer a more comfortable ride than other sports cars is irrelevant to it being called a sports car so long as it offers sports car driving dynamics (same goes for it having 4-doors... the reason people usually cite for calling it a GT)."

100% dead on, I've driven a couple STI's they feel like your driving a milk box compared to the 8,anyway you cut it that car leans. Ike talks about what the car has to do stock and makes comment after somment about "tweak the brembos" "better tires" dial out the understeer etc.... seems like alot to do for a 34k car that feels like it's got 150kmiles when they have 20k. No matter what Ike says it's not as a pure sports car like the 8. Oh and the chassis!!! the 8's is purpose built for a sports car!!!!! The 8's chassis isn't shared with severaly other grocery getters either, maybe it should be to be considered a real sports car. Deslock hopefully c-ya at the next tech day!! this post might be a little late & off topic oh well Ike bugs me, there must be a nice subie forum for Ike to troll on, everywhere I look his two cents, usally about subies, doesn't seem very objective.

And your point is.....?

Didn't look like he was beating around the bush to me...

[" don't at all agree with the characterizations of the STI being a sports car and the RX8 a GT. The RX8 has better steering response, a better shifter, better chassis, better weight distribution, better balance, better road feel, and it's more nimble. My 6-speed RX8 weighs 400 pounds less than the STI and the weight is lower to the ground and more concentrated towards the center of the car. All of those things are important in a sports car, not a GT. Also, I don't think the STI's understeer is blown out of proportion... sure, it's better than the WRX, but it's noticeable at the more than just the track. Lastly, the STI's braking isn't better than the RX8.

Even the lowly Miata offers more of a traditional sports car feel than the STI (despite the Miata's lack of power). Don't misunderstand me... the STI is a wonderful vehicle, but it's more of a street legal track car (despite its mediocre steering feel, understeer, and hefty weight). Ultimately, the fact that the RX8 is able to offer a more comfortable ride than other sports cars is irrelevant to it being called a sports car so long as it offers sports car driving dynamics (same goes for it having 4-doors... the reason people usually cite for calling it a GT)."

100% dead on, I've driven a couple STI's they feel like your driving a milk box compared to the 8,anyway you cut it that car leans. Ike talks about what the car has to do stock and makes comment after somment about "tweak the brembos" "better tires" dial out the understeer etc.... seems like alot to do for a 34k car that feels like it's got 150kmiles when they have 20k. No matter what Ike says it's not as a pure sports car like the 8. Oh and the chassis!!! the 8's is purpose built for a sports car!!!!! The 8's chassis isn't shared with severaly other grocery getters either, maybe it should be to be considered a real sports car. Deslock hopefully c-ya at the next tech day!! this post might be a little late & off topic oh well Ike bugs me, there must be a nice subie forum for Ike to troll on, everywhere I look his two cents, usally about subies, doesn't seem very objective.

So the STi feels like a street legal racecar but the RX-8 feels more like a sportscar :confused: :rolleyes: If I made any comments about brakes and tires it was in reference to the WRX and not the STi, the STi brakes and tires are about as good as it gets and to reduce understeer a bit all you need is a stiffer rear sway. As for the rest, you're not even worth the time I've already wasted on you.

It's more sportyscar than any current Mazda or Audi, and people actually use them as such. Also you're a douche for bumping this thread :p

Regards,
Ike

Hey Ike, remember that recent thread where the guy switched from the 8 to the STi and you posted some forum links for him? I followed those links, checked out the sites, and I really didn't see anything like the track footage that's posted to this site by RX-8 drivers. Actually, I saw little real content except for the TSB on the axles. Could you help me out and point me to the in-car stuff where STi's are being used like they were sportscars? Thanks. :)

BTW, a sportscar is a car that was designed primarily for competition. The Miata has us both beat. The 8 is supposed to be a "practical sportscar" with the 2+2 seating, and the STi is based on an economy car. Neither is a sportscar.

If squirting from stoplight to stoplight with two hunting dogs in the back while wearing LL Bean Maine hiking boots ever becomes a sport, then maybe you'll have something there.

edit: corrected spelling

Here are 15,000+ threads for you to sort through, I'm certainly not going to do it for you.


http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=22&page=1&pp=30&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Scanned through the 12-13 pages of blah blah blah. Just a few corrections to make :

- The Forrester XT is faster than the STi because of what IkeWRX said and also because of GEARING, with Subarus you can pretty much listen to Ike

- The OP sounds like a troll, I mean an STI to an RX8??? That's like saying a Ferrari Enzo to a Hyundai, a big downgrade in performance, durability and all out fun (in terms of how much you can mod the car).

The EVOs, STIs, GTRs are all every bit a sports car. The fact that they are not even available in AUTOMATIC should be a resounding point.

Scanned through the 12-13 pages of blah blah blah. Just a few corrections to make :

- The Forrester XT is faster than the STi because of what IkeWRX said and also because of GEARING, with Subarus you can pretty much listen to Ike



You mean WRX not STi :)

I am sorry, I left the room for a scond. What were we talking about again?

I am sorry, I left the room for a scond. What were we talking about again?

Bewbs!

Ah....ok. I know a little about :p them.

I'm in NJ, but my car is silver haha. But, I have a front license plate cause they'll pull you over out here if you don't have one.

Where in NJ. I've seen a few here and there like my silver one. I understand how you feel. I chose RX8 over STI initially, then when my daily beater hit the crapper, I spoiled myself with STI as my daily commuter car. I feel the power of STi is superb, but at my age I don't need that power very often like I'd have needed in my youth. The STi offers so much performance and practicality, is a great machine. I'gotten used the heavy, sensitive clutch. I get no rattles of strange noises at all. Unfortunately I've gotten those rattles in RX8, and car has seen dealer numurous times for all kinds of little failures.. The STI has givin me confidence it will outlast RX8, but we shall see. At 16k miles have had nothing but a great, winter, summer that lpows through snow, but also outruns almost every car I see. I was able to cure both my cravings by buying both. I may keep STI and drive it into ground, because to me it's just a better daily driver then RX8, and I personally feel it will give 150k miles considering the way I drive it. (mostly highway, and little city or hard driving) Only two factors though. highway gas mileage (25-26mpg) and AWD for winter. Other then that, the power and performance for me cannot overtake the looks and refinement, with all the goodies like RX8 can. I think you will be happier with RX8, especially since the power never got to you, which is what makes it such a popular good selling vehicle to those diehards who love performance. If that day comes where financially I cannot afford both, the STI will certainly be the one to go, although it will be painful, because I really do love that car. :)

Personally. I'd hang on for another year. You might enjoy a better version of rx8 to come, so waiting it out might not be a bad idea. Good luck!!

Here are 15,000+ threads for you to sort through, I'm certainly not going to do it for you.


http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=22&page=1&pp=30&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Anyone else find any videos like the ones I was talking about by following those links? All I found was some WRC stuff, and a video of like Daytona with some Subaru-based cars mixed in. Nothing like I was talking about, right?

Pretty weak, Ike.

Eh, maybe not by the traditional definition. But IMO opinion that definition needs to be retired and cars like the Evo and STi have more sport in them than any other car on the road for under 50k. Autocross it, drag race it, rally it, they'll do it all and keep asking for more, that's pretty sporty if you ask me.

hey if i could change the commonly accepted definition id surely define them as one, hell even i would consider calling the RX-8 a so called "sportscar" :rolleyes:

[" don't at all agree with the characterizations of the STI being a sports car and the RX8 a GT. The RX8 has better steering response, a better shifter, better chassis, better weight distribution, better balance, better road feel, and it's more nimble. My 6-speed RX8 weighs 400 pounds less than the STI and the weight is lower to the ground and more concentrated towards the center of the car. All of those things are important in a sports car, not a GT. Also, I don't think the STI's understeer is blown out of proportion... sure, it's better than the WRX, but it's noticeable at the more than just the track. Lastly, the STI's braking isn't better than the RX8.

Even the lowly Miata offers more of a traditional sports car feel than the STI (despite the Miata's lack of power). Don't misunderstand me... the STI is a wonderful vehicle, but it's more of a street legal track car (despite its mediocre steering feel, understeer, and hefty weight). Ultimately, the fact that the RX8 is able to offer a more comfortable ride than other sports cars is irrelevant to it being called a sports car so long as it offers sports car driving dynamics (same goes for it having 4-doors... the reason people usually cite for calling it a GT)."

100% dead on, I've driven a couple STI's they feel like your driving a milk box compared to the 8,anyway you cut it that car leans. Ike talks about what the car has to do stock and makes comment after somment about "tweak the brembos" "better tires" dial out the understeer etc.... seems like alot to do for a 34k car that feels like it's got 150kmiles when they have 20k. No matter what Ike says it's not as a pure sports car like the 8. Oh and the chassis!!! the 8's is purpose built for a sports car!!!!! The 8's chassis isn't shared with severaly other grocery getters either, maybe it should be to be considered a real sports car. Deslock hopefully c-ya at the next tech day!! this post might be a little late & off topic oh well Ike bugs me, there must be a nice subie forum for Ike to troll on, everywhere I look his two cents, usally about subies, doesn't seem very objective.

another point i'd like to bring to the table is that i see people say the 8 is a 4 door sedan, but the thing is its really a 2+2 with some funky shaped doors that fit the lines of the coupe(a bit longer, but only slightly) hell, just compare the size of a rx8 rear door to ANY other 4 door sedans rear doors and you will see there is a large difference.

Anyone else find any videos like the ones I was talking about by following those links? All I found was some WRC stuff, and a video of like Daytona with some Subaru-based cars mixed in. Nothing like I was talking about, right?

Pretty weak, Ike.

There's plenty of stuff like what you're talking about including a member that has several videos of driving his car on Nurburgring. So you went through all 15,000 posts and found nothing? I see a couple videos posted in the last two days, which is about how many RX-8 track videos have been posted in the history of this site :rolleyes:

Also just this past week Subaru was a very popular entry into the One Lap of America, in addition to being the most popular car at the Rim of the World rally the same weekend. It also swept every class it was entered in. Go to any local dragstrip, autox, rallyx and the WRXs abound. But I guess you need in car videos for proof...

This is about the stupidest argument I've ever been in.

and that's saying something...hes been in alot.

and that's saying something...hes been in alot.

<nods> :p

almost 4000 posts for a car you don't own....alls I can say is yikes.

yeah i still am not sure how on earth he manages...

...But at the end, the guy who started this thread bought a car which is indisputably a sports car. :D

Everyday
I'm truly amazed at Ike

I forgot what this thread was about...

There's plenty of stuff like what you're talking about including a member that has several videos of driving his car on Nurburgring. So you went through all 15,000 posts and found nothing? I see a couple videos posted in the last two days, which is about how many RX-8 track videos have been posted in the history of this site :rolleyes:

Also just this past week Subaru was a very popular entry into the One Lap of America, in addition to being the most popular car at the Rim of the World rally the same weekend. It also swept every class it was entered in. Go to any local dragstrip, autox, rallyx and the WRXs abound. But I guess you need in car videos for proof...

This is about the stupidest argument I've ever been in.

So pathetic when a troll starts whining because they're getting what they dished out. You made a comment that "people actually use them as such", implying that current Mazda's don't see track use. I pointed out how rediculous the statement is by using the model that's only in its second year, not even the Miata. You still haven't managed to come up with any evidence that Joe Subaru Owner uses the car like a sportscar, instead of rolling up to Civics at stoplights and being like, "Ooooo, yeah. Look at them checking out my big, gaudy wing."

Have you ever been to a family gathering where there's that 13 year old relative who's going through the phase where they roll their eyes at everything anybody says? What, you thought it looked sophisticated and cool, so you do it at the end of every paragraph? :rolleyes:

ooh, someone just got grilled

So pathetic when a troll starts whining because they're getting what they dished out. You made a comment that "people actually use them as such", implying that current Mazda's don't see track use. I pointed out how rediculous the statement is by using the model that's only in its second year, not even the Miata. You still haven't managed to come up with any evidence that Joe Subaru Owner uses the car like a sportscar, instead of rolling up to Civics at stoplights and being like, "Ooooo, yeah. Look at them checking out my big, gaudy wing."

Have you ever been to a family gathering where there's that 13 year old relative who's going through the phase where they roll their eyes at everything anybody says? What, you thought it looked sophisticated and cool, so you do it at the end of every paragraph? :rolleyes:

I gave you 15,000 threads that at least in some way relate to autosports that Subaru owners participate in. I'm not doing the work for you and I'm not going to help cure you of your ignorance. If you want to think that Subaru owners just go around stoplight racing Civics I can live with that, you're not worth any more of my time to prove otherwise.

STi vs. civic...that's got to be the most logical match up ever.

STi vs. civic...that's got to be the most logical match up ever.


So, who won?

i doubt they remember, you brought back a thread thats over half a year old, good job.

i doubt they remember, you brought back a thread thats over half a year old, good job.

oh, only half a year sorry. I'll do better next time :icon_no2:

Wrong one noober!

yeah, you could do better, lets see some threads from '03

There are some popping up from '02. You guys have gone mad.

You guys? It's all DARKMAZ8

You guys? It's all DARKMAZ8

Thanks Captain Obvious.

Thanks Captain Obvious.
There are some popping up from '02. You guys have gone mad.

Miss something?

lol whats up with all these threads popping up?

just some crazy man on a thread digging rampage(darkmazman or whatever)

Miss something?

nope

ttttt

Imagine what Subaru could do if they did have a dedicated Sport Chassis. Not to put down the WRX or STi, but they are big 4 door rally cars. Imagine a 2 door, 2 seater, meh even a 4 seater with the thinking of a base RX-8. I believe Subaru has the engine (is reliability a problem? I have a neighbor who blew his engine, but he doesn't really break them in), a nice AWD, good breaks, etc... but just not the perfect chassis. I know they can build an awesome awesome dedicated sports car.
I bought the 8 because I feel it was the best bang for the buck in the price range. It had everything I needed in a car(I don't need a big trunk yet, plus I also have a wagon). The STi was out of my price range. Didn't like the WRX due to cheap interior and I would feel small just due to the STi.

This is the fun behind buying and owning different cars. I got RX8 first. Loved the car, felt it was underpowered, and after I had a new daily driver, it didn't serve the purpose of a fun weekend/summer car, so I switched to S2000. STI is my daily, and I totally understand everything you are criticizing car for. The shifting is nothy, it rattles, and feels cheap. You can't drive an STI and feel like you are driving a $30k car. All the money is into performance, not refinement and feel. This is where the STI takes criticism. For the price people pay, they expect it to feel like a $30k+ car. The Impreza is an economy car, and this is a hopped version of it. It simply is not a refined, classy automobile. The RX8 feels like an expensive car. I truly miss mine, but I couldn't get over the annoying issues, and constant visits to dealer, which is one of the reasons why I parted with it. My guess is that you will buy an RX8, things will begin to bother you, and in another year or two you'll be looking elsewhere. Go for it. Eventually the right car will come your way. :)

ttt

Ya I love the car too. Feel it is underpowered with bad fuel mileage. I have a daily driver to get to work and back, but i just can't wait to drive the 8. I wish I could afford 2 nice cars like that.
As for annoying issues, constant visits to the dealership... I suppose I would get annoyed too... but maybe you just got a lemon? i guess I'll see