...abstinence, what a F-ing joke


Study: Abstinence May Lead to Risky Acts
- By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer
Friday, March 18, 2005

(03-18) 14:50 PST New Haven, Conn. (AP) --

Teens who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are more likely to take chances with other kinds of sex that increase the risk of sexually transmitted diseases, a study of 12,000 adolescents suggests.

The report by Yale and Columbia University researchers could help explain their earlier findings that teens who pledged abstinence are just as likely to have STDs as their peers.

The latest study, published in the April issue of the Journal of Adolescent Health, found that teens pledging virginity until marriage are more likely to have oral and anal sex than other teens who have not had intercourse. That behavior, however, "puts you at risk," said Hannah Brueckner, assistant professor of sociology at Yale and one of the study's authors.

Among virgins, boys who have pledged abstinence were four times more likely to have had anal sex, according to the study. Overall, pledgers were six times more likely to have oral sex than teens who have remained abstinent but not as part of a pledge.

The pledging group was also less likely to use condoms during their first sexual experience or get tested for STDs, the researchers found.

Data for the study was taken from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health. An in-school questionnaire was given to a nationally representative sample of students in grades 7-12 and followed up with a series of in-home interviews roughly one, two, and six years later. It was funded in part by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Leslee Unruh, president of the National Abstinence Clearinghouse in Sioux Falls, S.D., called the study "bogus," disputing that those involved had pledged true "abstinence."

"Kids who pledge abstinence are taught that any word that has 'sex' in it is considered a sexual activity," Unruh said. "Therefore oral sex is sex, and they are staying away."

Millions of teens have signed written pledges or verbally promised to abstain from sex, part of a church-led effort to discourage premarital sex and the spread of disease. President Bush has boosted funding for abstinence-only education in schools.

Critics say that education needs to be coupled with safe-sex education to be effective.

"If adolescents only had sex in monogamous, married relationships, by definition there would be no STDs," Brueckner said, echoing President Bush's remarks in last year's State of the Union address. "But the majority of adolescents don't live like that. They do have sex."

Last year, the same research team found that 88 percent of teens who pledge abstinence end up having sex before marriage, compared with 99 percent of teens who do not make a pledge.

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URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/03/18/national/a115514S47.DTL

Reasons why I like being a ho. lol ;)

Just remember to always wrap it before you bag it.

so piidb isn't sex???

so piidb isn't sex???
Define what "isn't" is
http://top.lourd.free.fr/truc/bill3.jpg

^hahahahahhaa

I think both need to be taught, if you can make it till your married then that is awesome, if you cannot then you need to be using a jimmy hat or some other form of contraception. As for abstinence being a joke True, that is a very immature opinion in regards to a very serious issue in our country that being STD's and Teen Pregnancy. Balancing both abstinence and safe sex education with an emphasis on abstaining will help out significantly more than if just one was taught. If you have any evidence from a credible source that disagrees with that I would like to see it.

OMG BlueEyes that picture=LMFAO

From Virginia...

Ummm...that aint abstinence people, those are people trying to get around the rules of abstinence (while some are too strict others are too lack (anything goes cept baby making sex)

That AINT ABSTINENCE!

From Virginia...

Ummm...that aint abstinence people, those are people trying to get around the rules of abstinence (while some are too strict others are too lack (anything goes cept baby making sex)

That AINT ABSTINENCE!

But THAT is what teenagers tend to use to get around the pledge. Doesn't matter what YOU think abstinence is, you're not the teenagers in question. It only matters what they're doing, and the message that they are taking away from the abstinence thing is "I can do whatever I want as long as it's not just straight sex, because that's all that counts."

Be rest assured, if there is a way to get around it, a teenager will find a way. It reminds me of some old movies I saw in the video store one day. The first was called something like, "If you keep playing with that, you'll go blind." Then there was the sequel, "Can I do it until I need glasses?"

One time I had a girl in class that crossed her legs and her knee ended up getting stuck to the underside of her desk. When she pulled it down, a long string of gum became stuck to her pants. So I made a new rule: No gum in class. Sounds easy enough, right. But within a couple of days, the students had tried every way around the rule until I had to rewrite it. The new rule became:

NO GUM, FOOD, OR CANDY OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU CAN PUT IN YOUR MOUTH, CHEW, SWALLOW OR DIGEST!

After that, I had to further clarify that by using the word "or," each term could be taken as an individual action or a combination of any of the terms.

This is what they do. They test the limits of the rules to see how far they can go. Then when they get burned a couple of times, they learn to back off. It's just too bad alot of the things they do nowadays are so dangerous.

Jud

"...Leslee Unruh, president of the National Abstinence Clearinghouse in Sioux Falls, S.D., called the study "bogus," disputing that those involved had pledged true 'abstinence.'

"Kids who pledge abstinence are taught that any word that has 'sex' in it is considered a sexual activity," Unruh said. 'Therefore oral sex is sex, and they are staying away.'" This would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. The study, the largest and most complete study of the effects of sex education and and associated "virginity" pledges in "abstinence only" programs, found, as noted in the article, that while those who pledged their virginity until they married were less likely than others to have children out of wedlock, they were MORE likely to engage in both oral and anal sex than other teens and therefore are MORE likely to engage in sexually risky behavior.

The defense from the "abstinence only" crowd is that the study is "bogus" because only those who follow through and remain completely "abstinent" should have been counted! (These people claim to do "science?")

Not mentioned in the article but noted in the study, by the way, is that the lower incidence of out of wedlock births among the "virginity pledge" group, is due largely to the higher percentage of teenage marriages among that group. Now that's something to encourage! It's also worth noting that encouraging teens to "wait" until marriage mainly results in increasing the divorce rate among those who marry earlier.

Argghhhh...Still another example of the Bush Administration's reliance on ideology over science.

Kids will be kids and hormones will be hormones. I've got a 12 year old son who is just heading into puberty, and is a good looking and popular kids, who has girls calling and emailing him all the time. Some of these 12 and 13 year old girls look like what I remember 16 year girls looking like when I was a kid. And they behave like they are 17-18 or worse.

He was recently at a Bar Mitzvah party with a Mardi Gras theme - the parents (idiots that they were) apparently were uninformed over the true use of beads as a means of exchange for the exposure of female mammalia ... and yup, this party featured a handful of girls who flashed their 13 year old boobs in exchange for beads ... I was amazed when I heard about that.

I like to think my son will make wise choices but, I remember what a horn dog I was when I was a teen.

I'd be interested in hearing from some of the younger members of the board as to what their opinions are here.

umm...i would love to know theses kids they did...i've made it almost 19 years now, and i've done any kind of oral sex ONCE and never again, not a fan at all...and as far as taking it up the ass...yea, never happening...

I could list a few things these kids do, but it goes against the TOS.

umm...i would love to know theses kids they did...i've made it almost 19 years now, and i've done any kind of oral sex ONCE and never again, not a fan at all...and as far as taking it up the ass...yea, never happening...

I didn't know Morgan was a nun

funny funny....

umm...i would love to know theses kids they did...i've made it almost 19 years now, and i've done any kind of oral sex ONCE and never again, not a fan at all...and as far as taking it up the ass...yea, never happening...

And here I was thinking you were the perfect women :eek:
Problem is, no one has show you the right way to do things...or have things done..I know I lack youth, but I do have the wisdom that comes with age...(In best barry white voice) come to the loooovvvve Doctor......I have your prescription foorr siiinnnnn..

Wait...you are 19? You would probably break me.... :(

... Wait...you are 19? You would probably break me.... :(
Probably both financially and physically. :D

And here I was thinking you were the perfect women :eek:
Problem is, no one has show you the right way to do things...or have things done..I know I lack youth, but I do have the wisdom that comes with age...(In best barry white voice) come to the loooovvvve Doctor......I have your prescription foorr siiinnnnn..

Wait...you are 19? You would probably break me.... :(

Probably, but what a nice way to be broken!

Probably both financially and physically. :D


But it would be a fun ride down..until Mrs. Klegg got her hands on me.. :eek:

Klegg, I am shocked you actually know what to do with a woman!!!! I thought for sure you would have first berated her views on how much of a sinner she was because she wasn't completely abstinate.

Earlier you supported MY views on the Terri issue! What is this Sunday coming to with you Klegg? LMAO.

j/k :D

Klegg, I am shocked you actually know what to do with a woman!!!! I thought for sure you would have first berated her views on how much of a sinner she was because she wasn't completely abstinate.


j/k :D

Nah, I think abstinance is a joke...And even after some 10 years of marrage, and 18 years with Mrs. klegg..I still have a faint memory of what to do..I think..

Nah, I think abstinance is a joke...
I'll cheers to that.
Just be smart

I agree that the present abstinence campaign is a joke. Abstinence as a solution to other problems isn't viable for a society like ours. If politicians and religious organizations want to make an impact on teen sex, teen pregnancy, and prevent the spread of venereal diseases amongst teens, they need to start a massive sex education program in the school systems and controversially, start making birth control readily available to today’s youth.

Proper education is the key, and a campaign of abstinence is just plain ignorant, hypocritical, and down right insulting.

I agree that the present abstinence campaign is a joke. Abstinence as a solution to other problems isn't viable for a society like ours. If politicians and religious organizations want to make an impact on teen sex, teen pregnancy, and prevent the spread of venereal diseases amongst teens, they need to start a massive sex education program in the school systems and controversially, start making birth control readily available to today’s youth.

Proper education is the key, and a campaign of abstinence is just plain ignorant, hypocritical, and down right insulting.
Good for you, Jason. I hope you won't change your mind because we find ourselves on the same side of this issue. :D

Good for you, Jason. I hope you won't change your mind because we find ourselves on the same side of this issue. :D

No, I have always thought this way.

I am the club's resident Gigolo am I not? ;)

Believe it or not I do not follow the Republican Party line on a lot of social issues. This is just one of them. Euthanasia is another.

I do vote my pocket book though, that is why I do not support the Democratic Party (A.K.A. The American Socialist Party).

I agree that the present abstinence campaign is a joke. Abstinence as a solution to other problems isn't viable for a society like ours. If politicians and religious organizations want to make an impact on teen sex, teen pregnancy, and prevent the spread of venereal diseases amongst teens, they need to start a massive sex education program in the school systems and controversially, start making birth control readily available to today’s youth.

Proper education is the key, and a campaign of abstinence is just plain ignorant, hypocritical, and down right insulting.


Well said, spelling is right...did hell freeze over? :D

No, I have always thought this way.

I am the club's resident Gigolo am I not? ;)

Believe it or not I do not follow the Republican Party line on a lot of social issues. This is just one of them. Euthanasia is another.

I do vote my pocket book though, that is why I do not support the Democratic Party (A.K.A. The American Socialist Party).


What did you do with jason...Someone call the police, Jason has been abducted..

Klegg, usually you post stupid pointless threads that involve Bush bashing or US International policy, both of which I do not agree with you on.

Threads on social issues have not been brought up on this forum in quite some time, so there in I have not posted on them and expressed my opinions of them. I have not changed, only the topics have.

There's a "youth in Asia" joke in there, but it's only funny when delivered orally ...

Speaking of oral delivery ... how about that Morgan!

Whoo! Wow, you've been a great audience! I'm here til Thursday. Try the veal.

Klegg, usually you post stupid pointless threads that involve Bush bashing or US International policy, both of which I do not agree with you on.

.


oh, there you are..call off the manhunt...we found him. :p

Actually, I usually post stupid pointless threads on rodent based mods...

Lmao

No, I have always thought this way....


I do vote my pocket book though, that is why I do not support the Democratic Party (A.K.A. The American Socialist Party).
Thank God. I, too, was afraid that Jason had been abducted and replaced by someone who can think. I'm reassured.

Thank God. I, too, was afraid that Jason had been abducted and replaced by someone who can think. I'm reassured.

If only everyone on this board had the freedom of thought to form their own opinions on subjects, instead of touting the views of their chosen party line as if it were the gospel.

If only there was still hope for you and Klegg on such matters.

If only everyone on this board had the freedom of thought to form their own opinions on subjects, instead of touting the views of their chosen party line as if it were the gospel.

If only there was still hope for you and Klegg on such matters.
Once again, Jason, your limited reading skills betray you. Had you taken the time to actually read and were able to comprehend previous posts, you would have found a number of issues with which I differ significantly from the platform stance of the Democratic Party, not the least of which was President Clinton's signing of the misnamed "Defense of Marriage Act" and Senator Kerry's statement that he would have still have voted to give Bush the authority to launch the invasion of Iraq during his presidential campaign.

I can see where you might be confused, however. The Democratic Party actually includes a fairly broad spectrum of opinion and Democrats can disagree with one another without feeling they are not part of the same political party. The scope of allowable ideological variation within the Republican Party, on the other hand ranges, from A to B.

Wrong again jsh. The 51 percent of America who elected W aren’t all gun touting NRA members, they are a diverse group who are tired of being lied to and mislead by the bunch of left winged radical liberals who run your party of favor.

And from everything that I have read on here that was been posted by you, you fall into the 30% of America who would rather have a gerbil in the WH because they hate Bush with such a passion that it blinds them to reality and the world around them.

Your above examples are two minor instances where you don’t agree with the Democrats.

I don’t agree with the Republicans on most of the implications and implementations of their social platform. Unfortunately that rarely gets discussed on this board because of people like you want to hug trees and negotiate with ruthless lying world dictators instead of bombing them.

Who is the moderate amongst the two of us jsh? It sure isn’t you.

P.S. We also probably agree on abortion so watch out.

I have to say, those were pretty minor areas of disagreement you had with your party, jsh. It's quite clear that the gigolo and I are much less bound to our party planks than you.

They might as well use your picture for the Democratic party logo.

Ah well...it was fun while it lasted..back to normal here :rolleyes:

What can I say...bring on the "abstinence." :eek: I guess that's what I've been doing wrong all these years...

Preaching abstinence is like sending a man out to war with a slingshot.

its based on theory and ideology thats just not all that realistic, especially in today's day and age

Wrong again jsh. The 51 percent of America who elected W aren’t all gun touting NRA members, they are a diverse group who are tired of being lied to and mislead by the bunch of left winged radical liberals who run your party of favor. I was under the impression that the comparison being discussed was between the Democratic and Republican parties, not the coalitions of voters in the 2004 election. If, however, you'd like to shift the basis of the comparison, I'd certainly agree that the Bush coalition is a "diverse group," a fact that makes the contention that the current administration received a "mandate" in the election especially absurd.

I assume you'd agree and would point to the policy of supporting "abstinence only" sex education to be an especially relevant example in the context of this thread.


And from everything that I have read on here that was been posted by you, you fall into the 30% of America who would rather have a gerbil in the WH because they hate Bush with such a passion that it blinds them to reality and the world around them.Wrong. I'd prefer a chimpanzee to a gerbil. As far as a choice between the present occupant of the White House and a chimp is concerned, I'm undecided, both because it is difficult to distinguish them visually and because the policies of the current administration are largely indistinguishable in terms of competence from those that might be implemented by a chimp.

Your above examples are two minor instances where you don’t agree with the Democrats. Well, I'd say that the whole issue of same-sex marriage is an absurd issue, but not a minor one; it is, after all, an issue with national implications, the subject of a Constitutional amendment pressed by the current administration, the source of numerous state initiatives, and an issue with profound human rights implications for millions of Americans.

The other issue, support for authorizing Bush to take the country to war is not, to me at least, a "minor" issue. Obviously, we differ on that point.

I don’t agree with the Republicans on most of the implications and implementations of their social platform. Unfortunately that rarely gets discussed on this board because of people like you want to hug trees and negotiate with ruthless lying world dictators instead of bombing them.I'm not sure what forums you've been (mis)reading, but the social platform of the current administration has, in fact, been widely discussed. I'm not sure how you missed it, especially since this thread is one of many in that vein.

I will confess to a fondness for trees. In comparison to Texas we have a number of them around here to hug. More critically, however, I'm not inclined to turn environmental policy over to polluters or to twist science when its findings don't square with the agendas of Republican Party contributors.

And I'll also confess to a preference for "negotiations" in all but exteme cases. The problem with "bombing ruthless lying world dictators" as a preferred policy is that such bombing almost always results in killing a lot of innocent folks and much less frequently killing the dictators. And while bombing is sometimes effective in the short run, it seldom substitutes for long-term policies that inevitably involve "negotiation" frequently with or about the fate of the "ruthless dictator" one sought to bomb in the first place.

Who is the moderate amongst the two of us jsh? It sure isn’t you.The term "moderate" is only definable in relation to others' views. I personally prefer principles and facts as the foundations for my political viewpoint. That sometimes results in a "moderate" position (e.g. sex education curricula.) It sometimes results in an extreme position relative to the views of many Americans, (e.g. the teaching of evolution in science classes.) As noted elsewhere, I don't have a problem with the relative "moderation" of your views; it's the frequent misstatements of fact and failure to cite evidence for them that draws my criticism.

HOLY HELL!!!! Why does just about every thread have to turn into a freakin' political discussion!?!?!?!

I didn't have sex till later in life. And I can tell you that I have never done any "Risky Sex Acts".

Never with large animals, while skydiving.. at the top of skyscrapers while on a window cleaning rig, etc. Nope, never!

HOLY HELL!!!! Why does just about every thread have to turn into a freakin' political discussion!?!?!?! While I respect the right of folks to avoid discussions of politics, religion, tv, or just about anything else that doesn't interest them, it seems a bit odd to complain that a thread that began with the effects of abstinence-only sex education, the only approach favored by the Bush administration, turns into a "political discussion."

Were you expecting it to deal only with the sexual preferences of the contributors? Techniques? Recounting of experiences? Tips on risky sexual behavior? All fine topics that deserve their own threads, but not exactly within the bounds of behavior allowed on this board, as I understand them. ;)

HOLY HELL!!!! Why does just about every thread have to turn into a freakin' political discussion!?!?!?!


I know! This one should just be about us....and our forbidden, taboo love..

^^see jish, THAT is what it's suppose to be about...sheesh

So the question is, in a long term, monogamous relationship ... are there any "risky acts?" If it's just the two of you, and no one else, is there any harm to be found with anything?

Sorry to be a 'ball' buster, but with a 14 year old daughter, I am going to scream ABSTINENCE from the highest mountaintop.

I think the real point is...there is no SAFE sex. While I have to agree abstinence, in today's society, is a problem, saying that we need a better education program is just as laughable. Teens no more want to use protection than to abstain, no matter how much education you shove down their throats. Young men are still very forceful, and put young women in the situation where they have to choose. So the problem will always exist.

Look how much effort has been put into the 'STAND' campaign and others? All the lawsuits against 'Big Tobacco'. Kids know the consequences, yet they still smoke like freight trains.

Sure, teaching both means is GREAT...but you could shoot holes through both theories. So, for us fathers who want to see our daughters make it through college, or hell, high school, for that matter, before looking for day care, or the latest 'cocktail' of drugs to keep them alive, how about some real wisdom?

First of all it's not necessarily the men who put women in these situations. LOTS of women have esteem issues and therefore pad their self worth by opening their legs and some of them just like it. It is the same for men.

Second, there is such as thing as safe sex. I don't know why you would think otherwise, and I don't know why you would tell your daughter that. I truley hope you are being honest with her and yourself and are teaching safe sex practices. It's going to happen, she will have sex, maybe with lots of different people. The best thing you can do is equip her with the tools to make sure that sex is safe.

You see the thing is, a 14 year old daughter will either learn about the birds and the bee's from you or from her friends, some of whom are 14-15 year old boys.

People who engage in "risky sex acts" who find eachother will both do it.. so even in a longterm relationship, they will tend to hook up with people who want an open marriage, etc...

So the question is, in a long term, monogamous relationship ... are there any "risky acts?" If it's just the two of you, and no one else, is there any harm to be found with anything?

My daughter is well aware of the issues. But, I am certainly not going to condone indiscriminate sex because 'well, it's going to happen anyway sweetie, so here is your box of condoms.' And last I read, condoms are not 100 percent effective. So you tell me what sex method is 100 percent safe and I will run it by my daughter. Gambling with my daughter's life...not this old school idiot.

Show her the movie "She's Too Young"

My daughter is well aware of the issues. But, I am certainly not going to condone indiscriminate sex because 'well, it's going to happen anyway sweetie, so here is your box of condoms.' And last I read, condoms are not 100 percent effective. So you tell me what sex method is 100 percent safe and I will run it by my daughter. Gambling with my daughter's life...not this old school idiot.

First of all it's not necessarily the men who put women in these situations. LOTS of women have esteem issues and therefore pad their self worth by opening their legs and some of them just like it. It is the same for men.



That is like saying 'it is not just men that are accused of sexual harrassment.' That is true, but the majority is men. Also, we are talking about teens. I think you are embellishing a little on the teen mindset.

Show her the movie "She's Too Young"

I have vaguely heard about that movie...someone else I know also suggested it. So, perhaps it is worth viewing. Thanks.

I wouldn't suggest you gamble, but stack the odds in your favour. No precaution is 100% effective, true, but in series they get damn close. Don't give your daughter condoms with the reasoning it's going to happen, but rather that it might happen.

My parents gave, or asked me if I had, a condom every date I went on since age 16 until I moved out. We talked freely about sex, the fact that I was sexually active, the partners I had, and the measures I and my partners were taking to ensure we didn't get a 'suprise'. More than one girl I dated had conversations with my mom about sexual activity and safety. As well, many of my guy freinds would get condoms from my dad because they were afraid to ask their parents and didn't want to buy them for fear of someone seeing them and realaying that to their parents.

A couple parents expressed anger that my parents would talk to their kids about this, or give them protection. But, within the span of an afternoon tea to discuss their feelings they all left saying thank-you.

THere's another one.. I think it's called "13" it's much more gritty.

I have vaguely heard about that movie...someone else I know also suggested it. So, perhaps it is worth viewing. Thanks.

That is like saying 'it is not just men that are accused of sexual harrassment.' That is true, but the majority is men. Also, we are talking about teens. I think you are embellishing a little on the teen mindset.
How long ago were you a teen? I was 4 years ago. I know what goes on and I know the midsets of the girls and guys. My family as I spoke of above had a unique view of the situation. Believe me, the women want it, and the women do it for many of the same reasons as men. Maybe not in the same numbers, lets face it all men want to get laid all the time, but there are lots of young women who feel the same. It's taboo for them to talk like that though, especially with parents.

Incidentally, I have never had an STD never had a pregnant partner and never been too embarrased to see a doctor or talk to my parents about sexual issues. That's rarer than one would like to think in this day in age.

How long ago were you a teen? I was 4 years ago. I know what goes on and I know the midsets of the girls and guys. My family as I spoke of above had a unique view of the situation. Believe me, the women want it, and the women do it for many of the same reasons as men. Maybe not in the same numbers, lets face it all men want to get laid all the time, but there are lots of young women who feel the same. It's taboo for them to talk like that though, especially with parents.

Incidentally, I have never had an STD never had a pregnant partner and never been too embarrased to see a doctor or talk to my parents about sexual issues. That's rarer than one would like to think in this day in age.

Hopefully...when you make it to my ripe ole age AND have a daughter, you will understand. Although I am (only) 37, I remember like it was yesterday. I do not care about others thoughts when they were that age. I remember MY thoughts (no sign of Alzheimer's yet). That is on what I base my decisions. You have to also consider, is one mentally ready for what that entales at 14...16...18? Yeah, if it was up to me, I would have started at twelve or thirteen. It doesn't mean I should.

It is wonderful that you and your parents have an open dialogue, but yes I would say your situation is rare. That is the whole reason for this discussion. Parents these days want to defer all rearin' to the poor school system, then have the nerve to try and regulate what they teach.

My daughter is well aware of the issues. But, I am certainly not going to condone indiscriminate sex because 'well, it's going to happen anyway sweetie, so here is your box of condoms.' And last I read, condoms are not 100 percent effective. So you tell me what sex method is 100 percent safe and I will run it by my daughter. Gambling with my daughter's life...not this old school idiot.

No sex method is 100% safe so you better not talk to her at all :p. However, condoms do have a much higher (20% or so if I recall) rate of preventing pregnancy than telling someone to be abstinent. There is a difference between teaching safe sex and telling her to have indiscriminate sex. Many men wear a condom with their wife.

I would also agree with Blue Eye's characterization of the teen female mindset. In college it is even worse than high school. If you read Tom Wolfe's new book, which is supposedly what college life is like, your daughter won't be going anywhere after high school.

HOLY SHIT, no no no Condoms are above %90 if used correctly

here is the problem...NO ONE is being taught this stuff correctly with the Christian Right controlling sex ed (or lack of sex ed)

My father used to teach Human Sexuality 101 at the U of Minnesota and my mom asimilar class at a graduate Psych school...the amount of mis-information they encounter is mindboggling

USE CONDOMS THEY ARE EFFECTIVE>>>DON"T EVEN THINK OF USING THE PULL OUT BEFORE YOU BLOW YOUR LOAD METHOD YOU WILL HAVE A KID IN NO TIME

No sex method is 100% safe so you better not talk to her at all :p. However, condoms do have a much higher (20% or so if I recall) rate of preventing pregnancy than telling someone to be abstinent.

I think that Abstinence is a very noble notion, but it’s just not going to happen. If you tell your kid they're not having sex then that’s the first thing they will do. No there is no 100% sure way of being protected, but it’s much better to give them all the info they need to make the right decision.

HOLY SHIT, no no no Condoms are above %90 if used correctly

here is the problem...NO ONE is being taught this stuff correctly with the Christian Right controlling sex ed (or lack of sex ed)

My father used to teach Human Sexuality 101 at the U of Minnesota and my mom asimilar class at a graduate Psych school...the amount of mis-information they encounter is mindboggling

USE CONDOMS THEY ARE EFFECTIVE>>>DON"T EVEN THINK OF USING THE PULL OUT BEFORE YOU BLOW YOUR LOAD METHOD YOU WILL HAVE A KID IN NO TIME

Yeah, I know they are, while teaching abstinence is around 70% successful (30 people out of 100 people per year will become pregnant), which falls in line exactly with my stats as 90-70=20% higher rate of preventing pregnancy :p. From what I remember, the pull out has about the same success rate as abstinence. There's a difference between being effective and working 100% of the time.

There was a guy in my frat house who impregnated a girl using the "pull out" method ...

He earned the nickname "POOT" from there on out ("Pull Out On Time")

I have a freind who routinely practices the 'don't spit in the mit' technique with his girlfreind. They're both 24 so you would think they would smarten up. Anyways, thankfully there have been no pregnancies, BUT, there have been many false alarms. His gf is late, he comes to school white as a ghost and freaks out for a couple days, then she gets it and they go back to no protection. That is hard to watch every couple months let alone experience.

What's with this "pledge" thing anyway? Abstinence is something you decide, based upon your beliefs and plans. Being pressured into "joining the herd" with some kind of public written pledge is ludicrous. The results are not surprising.

What's with this "pledge" thing anyway? Abstinence is something you decide, based upon your beliefs and plans. Being pressured into "joining the herd" with some kind of public written pledge is ludicrous. The results are not surprising.

I would have to admit the results were a little surprising to me. I thought that students would just act like they never took the pledge and violate it instead of actually trying to find ways to get around it.

HOLY SHIT, no no no Condoms are above %90 if used correctly

here is the problem...NO ONE is being taught this stuff correctly with the Christian Right controlling sex ed (or lack of sex ed)

My father used to teach Human Sexuality 101 at the U of Minnesota and my mom asimilar class at a graduate Psych school...the amount of mis-information they encounter is mindboggling

USE CONDOMS THEY ARE EFFECTIVE>>>DON"T EVEN THINK OF USING THE PULL OUT BEFORE YOU BLOW YOUR LOAD METHOD YOU WILL HAVE A KID IN NO TIME

So, you mean to tell me you can't get pregnant from kissing? Oh, I suppose the next thing you're gonna' tell me is I won't catch AIDS if another person sweats on me, too. I know you're wrong because I heard Senator Bill Frist say I can, and he's a doctor! I know a doctor wouldn't lie to me. :D

Jud

DON"T EVEN THINK OF USING THE PULL OUT BEFORE YOU BLOW YOUR LOAD METHOD YOU WILL HAVE A KID IN NO TIME


And while "bombs bursting in air" is fine and dandy for the National Anthem, it makes for a rather unsatisfying experience.

You guys are a real hoot. 'Sex is okay as a teen as long as you're smart and carry a condom, just in case'. 'No, no it is not okay, but just in case your kids do not listen to you, well it is good to be prepared'. 'Look at all these stats and studies, they say carry a condom, just in case, because that is 20% more effective than abstinence'. Condoms are 97% effective, so do not worry about getting pregnant or disease, so carry one, just in case'. The problem is that you are teaching your children that hormones will take over, and they are helpless against them. So give in, but carry that condom, just in case. I say we go back to marrying off our kids at 14, or younger, if they feel they are up to it, even though mommy and daddy think it is better to wait until you are mentally responsible enough.

Saying have safe sex...which we all know is 'carry a condom', is easy to teach, also relieves a lot of personal responsibility. Kids essentially get to do what they want, cause 'they are gonna do it anyway'. It takes real courage to teach your kids abstinence AND for them to abide by it. Might they try it anyway, yes. Do they get taught to be safe, if it does happen, sure. As soon as you say that, however, you just said it is okay. I do not believe it is okay.

My daughter will be relieved to know that that as long as mommy and I teach her about safe sex, and toss a couple condoms in the backpack, and be responsible(?) she will have a long and meaningful sexlife.

You guys are a real hoot. 'Sex is okay as a teen as long as you're smart and carry a condom, just in case'. 'No, no it is not okay, but just in case your kids do not listen to you, well it is good to be prepared'. 'Look at all these stats and studies, they say carry a condom, just in case, because that is 20% more effective than abstinence'. Condoms are 97% effective, so do not worry about getting pregnant or disease, so carry one, just in case'. The problem is that you are teaching your children that hormones will take over, and they are helpless against them. So give in, but carry that condom, just in case. I say we go back to marrying off our kids at 14, or younger, if they feel they are up to it, even though mommy and daddy think it is better to wait until you are mentally responsible enough.

Saying have safe sex...which we all know is 'carry a condom', is easy to teach, also relieves a lot of personal responsibility. Kids essentially get to do what they want, cause 'they are gonna do it anyway'. It takes real courage to teach your kids abstinence AND for them to abide by it. Might they try it anyway, yes. Do they get taught to be safe, if it does happen, sure. As soon as you say that, however, you just said it is okay. I do not believe it is okay.

My daughter will be relieved to know that that as long as mommy and I teach her about safe sex, and toss a couple condoms in the backpack, and be responsible(?) she will have a long and meaningful sexlife.


papipito, did you read the beginning of the thread? The problem is the kids that HAVE been taught it are the ones squirming their way around it every which they can. Like teenagers do. It's very easy to say "well, MY kid would NEVER do that," when, in fact, they ARE doing that, and you just don't know about it.

papipito, did you read the beginning of the thread? The problem is the kids that HAVE been taught it are the ones squirming their way around it every which they can. Like teenagers do. It's very easy to say "well, MY kid would NEVER do that," when, in fact, they ARE doing that, and you just don't know about it.

Elara, did you read past the beginning? These threads do a thing called 'evolving'. I never said my daughter would never do it, I said that I do not CONDONE it. And perhaps she won't tell me or my wife, but even though she knows how we both feel, I DO think she would talk to us about it.

There are also kids being taught to have 'safe sex' and carry that condom 'just in case', yet they still do not. Hmmmm...I am still waiting for some wisdom.

So, for us fathers who want to see our daughters make it through college, or hell, high school, for that matter, before looking for day care, or the latest 'cocktail' of drugs to keep them alive, how about some real wisdom?
No problem... just take her to the doctor, get her a prescription for birth control pills, and remind her to take them every day.
Or, get her a chastity belt.
Or, force-feed her like a goose on a pate farm until she's too obese to be attractive.
Or, have her undergo female circumcision (preferably with a rusty razor blade) so that her clitoris is amputated, what's left of her labia are stitched very nearly shut, and sex will be forever extremely painful for her.

But somehow I don't think these were the answers you wanted.

Gentlemen -- Hasn't it occurred to you that becoming the father of a daughter is karma's revenge on you for what you were like as a teenage male? You know how you were back then... you would use whatever means possible to coerce a girl into opening her legs for you, right? Well guess what -- those same coercions will be religiously applied to your own teenage daughters. If you don't think she's sexually active by age sixteen, odds are you're hopelessly out of touch with the reality of your daughter's life.

The very best thing you can do for her is to keep the lines of communication open. Teenagers make mistakes, they show poor judgement, and they can be hopelessly at the mercy of their hormones in precarious situations. When the inevitable happens (and it will), make sure your kids can come to you and talk to you about what's going on without you blowing a gasket. Remember how you were at that age, and show some compassion. Let your kids know that even if they screw (pun intended) up, you still love 'em.

You guys are a real hoot. 'Sex is okay as a teen as long as you're smart and carry a condom, just in case'. 'No, no it is not okay, but just in case your kids do not listen to you, well it is good to be prepared'. 'Look at all these stats and studies, they say carry a condom, just in case, because that is 20% more effective than abstinence'. Condoms are 97% effective, so do not worry about getting pregnant or disease, so carry one, just in case'. The problem is that you are teaching your children that hormones will take over, and they are helpless against them.

Guess what, the hormones will eventually take over and your daughter will have sex, even if the first time is at age 28 after she is married, and she will want to still have safe sex to prevent pregnancy. A side benefit for you is that it works if she wishes to be sexually active in high school as well.

I am just glad that I have two boys...

Elara, did you read past the beginning? These threads do a thing called 'evolving'. I never said my daughter would never do it, I said that I do not CONDONE it. And perhaps she won't tell me or my wife, but even though she knows how we both feel, I DO think she would talk to us about it.

There are also kids being taught to have 'safe sex' and carry that condom 'just in case', yet they still do not. Hmmmm...I am still waiting for some wisdom.

Sorry, you seemed to be saying that because you had taught your daughter well, she'd never do it. At least, that's what I took from your posts. And from my own experience, as your standard "good" daughter (went to church, never got in trouble at school, parents talked to me about not having sex, etc, etc) I STILL snuck out to have sex with my boyfriend when I was 16.

papipito, I am with Elara on ths one. Your daughter is already doing things that you don't know about.

Trust me, When I was 15 and 16 I had several 14 year old girlfriends just like her who had concerned fathers just like you.

In fact Papipito there is a 1 in 7 chance that your daughter is not a virgin anymore...

probably because of a young version of Gigolo Jason

I think it was 12 or 13 when things went beyond kissing, no sexual intercourse till 16 though, both my parents are college professors/doctors, I was the 'good kid' Honor Roll well until college that is :p then I layed back :)

Elara, did you read past the beginning? These threads do a thing called 'evolving'. I never said my daughter would never do it, I said that I do not CONDONE it. And perhaps she won't tell me or my wife, but even though she knows how we both feel, I DO think she would talk to us about it.

There are also kids being taught to have 'safe sex' and carry that condom 'just in case', yet they still do not. Hmmmm...I am still waiting for some wisdom.

if the penis goes into any oriffice, that's sex.


ditto with the tounge, fingers.

I think it was 12 or 13 when things went beyond kissing, no sexual intercourse till 16 though, both my parents are college professors/doctors, I was the 'good kid' Honor Roll well until college that is :p then I layed back :)

Good lord yes- I was the same way. Didn't HAVE sex till 16, but I did a whole lot of other stuff starting at 13. And I seriously doubt, to this day, my parents have any idea. They just thought, since they had "talked" to me, that I would "behave." But being a normal teenager, I did exactly the opposite. All you can really do is talk to them, and hope the really important stuff has sunk in. It did for me- I went on BC when I was 15, and always used condoms. And never got anything or got pregnant. But I still did it. So at least I was responsible in my irresponsibility.

I forgot to mention condoms were used even when I started out at 16...thanks for pointing that out in your post!...since BC is important :)

Good lord yes- I was the same way. Didn't HAVE sex till 16, but I did a whole lot of other stuff starting at 13. And I seriously doubt, to this day, my parents have any idea. They just thought, since they had "talked" to me, that I would "behave." But being a normal teenager, I did exactly the opposite. All you can really do is talk to them, and hope the really important stuff has sunk in. It did for me- I went on BC when I was 15, and always used condoms. And never got anything or got pregnant. But I still did it. So at least I was responsible in my irresponsibility.

Sorry, you seemed to be saying that because you had taught your daughter well, she'd never do it. At least, that's what I took from your posts. And from my own experience, as your standard "good" daughter (went to church, never got in trouble at school, parents talked to me about not having sex, etc, etc) I STILL snuck out to have sex with my boyfriend when I was 16.


WOW...where were you when I was 16? OK...(barry white voice again) Tell the love docter all about it...you naughty, naughty girl... :p

Good lord yes- I was the same way. Didn't HAVE sex till 16, but I did a whole lot of other stuff starting at 13. And I seriously doubt, to this day, my parents have any idea. They just thought, since they had "talked" to me, that I would "behave." But being a normal teenager, I did exactly the opposite. All you can really do is talk to them, and hope the really important stuff has sunk in. It did for me- I went on BC when I was 15, and always used condoms. And never got anything or got pregnant. But I still did it. So at least I was responsible in my irresponsibility.


At 13???? again, where were you when I was 13, and dating my hand 4 times a day?

Ok, here is what I propse...have you all seen "MOnty pythons 's meaning of life"?


The secen with the teacher in sex ed class. I will play the teacher...and we will talk morgan into playing the wife. we will do things, and eveyone can vote on weather it is "Safe" or not..althogh the sight of a naked klegg could make you blind...maybe I will wear the leather chaps...

My wife may be ok with it,...it is for the kids, after all.. :p