Well gang, it has been real, and it has been fun... and actually it has been real fun too, but as of today, I canceled my order for the RX-8 and dropped $30K on the table and walked out with my new 2003 EVO. The discussions in this group actually helped me make up my mind. I love the fact that this group offers lively debate, an open mind and an ever more open forum. Thanks.

Over the course of the last few months that I have been an active participant on this site, I have discovered that my passion for all-wheel-drive and forced-induction is really what rules the day. It was hard coming from the 2002 911 Twin Turbo to think of buying something wtih 4 doors and still be happy. All I can say is that you have to weigh your options carefully and make up your own mind. For me, the EVO is the real deal!

I thought it would be helpful to offer my top 10 reasons why I canceled my order for the RX-8 in hopes it might stimulate further discussions. My desire is not to have more people buy EVOs or try and convince people to cancel there orders, only to focus attention on the factors that lead to my decision... so here are my top 10 reasons that I canceled my order and bought an EVO:

01) DELAY IN DELIVERY OF RX-8
This car has got to be the most hyped car in history with anticipation building for over 2 years. That is a lot of build up in to what is likely to be a let down for some buyers.

02) REALITY NOT LIVING UP TO THE HYPE
In many cases, the first drive tests complain about lack of power and other little things that seem trivial at first, but after re-reading many of the articles again and again, it is hard not to wonder where is all the torque and is 250hp really enough?

03) FREESTYLE DOORS
You either like them or you hate them, but many of you have discussed the difficulty of having to open the driver door just to let out the rear passengers. When you have kids, they are in and out all the time and that means more doors to open all the time.

04) SAFETY RECORD UNKNOWN
There was a discussion of safety and how light the car is and how irresponsible it was for someone to use this car as their primary mode of transport for the family. I don't think I would go that far, but it is true that it is unknown how the car will fare in US side impact tests and how you would get anyone out of the car in the event of a serious accident.

05) CLAUSTROPHOPIC BACKSEAT
Many of you have written about how the back seat in this car is really confining by virtue of the small "port hole" sized windows. I have noticed since I read that how much my kids enjoy looking out the windows as I am driving even on short trips. It seems silly to restrict their view.

06) TRUNK ACCESS AND STORAGE
Many of you commented on how the trunk is hard to get stuff into due to the small opening even if there is lots of room once you clear the opening. That gave me some cause for concern especially since things like the stroller, child seats, large luggage, golf clubs, etc have to go back there.

07) ICE (IN CAR ENTERTAINMENT)
As nice as the BOSE system is in this car, there is still no DVD option. The factory unit is VERY nice looking too, but the EVO comes with a base unit I won't worry about tossing for a $2,000 Alpine DVD unit and the Subaru Sti doesn't even come with a radio. :)

08) PERFORMANCE: 0-60 in 4.6 seconds
The Motor Trend test and my 20 minute test drive of the EVO made me a believer. This car is faster than my NSX, my M3 and feels almost as fast as my 911 Turbo. The handling of the EVO is insane! You have to drive it on a mountain road to really appreciate it. The RX-8 while fast, isn't that fast and I would have expected more.

09) BACK SEAT <90 DEG SEAT<> BACK ANGLE
Many of you have commented that the backseat of the RX-8 had a steeply raked seat base and that the seat back and base are actually at an angle less than 90 DEG. You can tell just how bad it is by the placement of the ISO-FIX latch system for the kid seats that sits a good 4" up from the union of the 2 at a point there you MUST use the latch system. I have the RECARO Start Child Seats and RECARO does not advise the use of those seats in the RX-8 just like it was not advised in my 2002 BMW M3 Convertible. Too bad and what a same for a car that was supposed to be targeted at the Family Man?! Who fell asleep on that deal. RECARO promises to make a new seat sometime next year that will work with this new system but current seats require 90 DEG or GREATER to be uses safely.

10) ALL-WHEEL DRIVE AND FORCED-INDUCTION
Well, when you get right down to it, I love to drive 90 mph in the rain. There really is nothing like it. Ever since my 1996 Porsche C4S, I have been sold on real world all-wheel-drive in a sports car. I also think that either super-charging or turbo-charging is also a welcome way to make buckets of cheap horsepower. So while good handling and other RX-8 pluses were important, you just can't beat the safety all-wheel-drive for interstate travel next to a 40 ft tractor trailer in a driving rainstorm near the freezing point. The EVO makes an insane level of 19psi of boost at just 3,500 RPM. You really have to drive it to appreciate it.

SUMMARY:
Now, I am sure you will all get your shots in about how ugly the EVO is and how beautiful the RX-8 is and I will have to agree with all of you on that point. Just keep in mind that beauty and styling can only go so far and in the final analysis you need the heart and soul of solid technology underfoot in order to build an enduring relationship with any car. The RX-8 unfortunately comes up short on the 10 items above and I would ask you all to consider if these are important to you too before actually taking delivery of your RX-8.

Thanks for allowing me to be a part of this wonderful group and if anyone knows an equally great place as this one for the EVO, please pass it along... you all are great! :) Thanks,

G-man

I'll just post what I posted in another thread.

IMO, I think a lot of people post messages like this, after buying a different vehicle to justifiy their purchase.
Because
#1 they got tired of waiting.
#2 they went car shopping and fell in love with something else, or convinced themselves it was better, because it was there and tangible.
#3 the car isn't in their price range.

I'm sure there are many more reasons, but I don't understand people putting down a car, or making a judgment on something that isn't here yet. IMO it's not the wisest decision.

But this is my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

I agree .. I'm annoyed and often finding myself looking for other cars on edmunds.com. But, like most shoppers, always find something I don't like in every other car that I like in the RX8.

As for performance, we all know that, one day, there will be tuners and aftermarket "stuff" that will make the RX8 a "slingshot" [C&D] on the road; the only difference, with the exterior looks, interior gizmos and most of all, a damn rotary engine!

alex

first i would like to say congrats on the new evo.i have also considred other cars and evo and sti have all been on my list.one fortunate thing for me is i havent been waiting months for the 8 ,i have only ordered mine a week ago.my complaints about both evo and sti is the fact of cheap interiors that all tests i have read have complained about.i know that both of these cars our way fast and the 8 is no race car [atleast not till turbo kit]but in my opnion the 8 has STYLE like no other.as far as looks i wont go there other to say im to old for a 3 foot wing.no offense cause i think both the evo and sti are awsome cars for there performance level and if not for the fact that my dealers here have a 7000 markup on evo and 3500 on sti and take over 3 months to get one they could still be on my list.i would NEVER pay more than msrp for anything and you would be a fool to pay a 7000 markup.my reason for chosing the 8 is #1 style,this car will just look fast. #2 price,no markup and in my opnion alot more for the cash. #3 future performance,evo and sti already at full potential from the factory,not much left to pull from motor [which is way cool]i feel the rotary will safley get 100 hp from aftermarket in a year if not more. again congrats on the evo and if i had been waiting months for the 8 i might have got something else.please take no offense from this reply as i just thought i would list my reasons for taking the 8.

Originally posted by MaRX8
IMO, I think a lot of people post messages like this, after buying a different vehicle to justifiy their purchase.

I'm sure there are many more reasons, but I don't understand people putting down a car, or making a judgment on something that isn't here yet. IMO it's not the wisest decision.


I don't think I was "putting down" the RX-8, I was simply pointing out a variety of the top 10 flaws that many others on this site have reported over the last 3 months that have finally taken root. All of the items I pointed out are valid concerns with the RX-8 and any "flaws" would be what have been pointed out by the following groups:

1) The RX-8 owners in Japan who have had their cars a little time now and have reported these problems.

2) Members of this forum who have seen the car at US and Foreign Auto Shows on on the Mazda Rev-it-up Tours.

3) The US and Foreign Motoring Press who have been given wide access to the actual US Spec car for driving.

Reports in other threads on this board continue to find flaws with the interior leather quality and the plastic of the RX-8 and many other "little" and not-so-little things about the RX-8. Why is it that you have be so defensive about my concern for the above listed top 10 items to the point you just want to write me off as just another crack-pot.

As far as your insipid point:
#1: I can assure you that we have all gotten tired of waiting for the RX-8 since it seems like it is taking Mazda forever to deliver the car.
#2: If drivers are able to "fall in love" so easily with something else then maybe that love for the elusive RX-8 wasn't that strong in the first place
and my favorite...
#3: I can assure you that there are very few cars made today that are "out of my price range" so price has nothing to do with it. The EVO and the RX-8 cost within $100 of each other and I could by an EVO, and RX-8 and a WRX STi and still have enough money left over to buy whatever piece of crap you are currently driving with the proceeds from the sale of my 911 Turbo.

Originally posted by akrx8
first i would like to say congrats on the new evo.i have also considred other cars and evo and sti have all been on my list.

as far as looks i wont go there other to say im to old for a 3 foot wing.no offense cause i think both the evo and sti are awsome cars for there performance level and if not for the fact that my dealers here have a 7000 markup on evo and 3500 on sti and take over 3 months to get one they could still be on my list.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I agree that the RX-8 can't be beat for style and design and that the STi and the EVO are lacking in this area for sure. The "boy-racer" wing is not the first thing that I love about the EVO that is for sure, but at least that is no stupid hood scoop like the STi. :)

As far as price on the EVO, I got mine for $1,000 UNDER MSPR and ended up out the door, taxes, title, everything for $31,000. My RX-8 as ordered was $31,100 plus all that other stuff,as much as $2,000 or more buying the EVO. There are plenty of dealers in the US looking to sell brand new EVOs for under MSRP or right at it. Don't pay too much.

We have a slightly more straightforward choice here in the UK.

I can fully understand anyone in the states switching to and EVO given the level of performance and inherent practicality, however in the UK there is a fairly serious impediment in that the EVO costs a massive £7000 more than a top spec RX-8. (and has a very limited service backup for the non motorsports owner)

It's because of this pricing that the Subaru flattens all competition in terms of sales in this country, unfortunately that results in a car almost as common as taxi's.

Of your concerns I believe that the crash safety aspect may be a little misleading (excluding the child seat issue) the UK press have noted that the 8 is designed to achieve a high standard of safety by means of the virtual pillar, and is claimed to be substantially better than the old 7 model. I believe the euro ncap tests should be in place before the car is launched in the UK, so should set minds at ease in this country at least.

In keeping the UK price of the 8 similar to the US price they appear to have created a car with very little direct competition (at this price point) something other manufacturers should take note of.

Any way, enjoy your new motor (and remember you're not Tommi Makinen)

good choice with the EVO, they dont even sell 'em here in Vancouver! and won't be for another year or two! the other day, my friends and i were driving down in Richmond, BC , we saw an EVO and was quite surprised, very unique car here in Van, i'd get an EVO if they actually sold it here! the only Mitsu Lancers they sell here that i know of is the OZ, ES, and LS! even though RX8 when compared to the EVO lacks soul, i think it's a more graceful and elegant looking machine!!

I agree with KEF on the price point difference being a key decision maker. I actually think the sahpe of the EVO 8 is much better than the "put together" style of the 7. If they were the same money I would certainly go for the EVO - there is no way of ignoring the almost supercar performance and handling for that money. Sadly for me the same almost is true for the STI which is £3000 more expensive than the 8 but on my Company car list is much more expensive (£150 per month) so that's why that was ruled out.
Looks are important, very important but so is performance, I guess practicality and safety should be equally important prerequisits and so I can understand your decision G-man.

Ed

congrat

Geez, with a collection of cars like that in your garage, what's another $30K?! Why not get both? :) I know I would.

Regardless, congratulations on the purchase, the EVO is no doubt a blast to drive, though I'd want something a bit more sedate to fall back on sometimes.

G- man has some good points that he has put forward ,i too have not totaly satisfied myself with the purchase of the rx8 ,however i will make my decision on or after the 4th of july when i finally get to test drive the rx8 in willowbank raceway in brisbane .

The evo's pretty cool...congrats. :cool:

If the Evo is what you love now, go for it. No need to justify to anyone if this is the car that meets all your requirements presently. After all, you are the one driving the car!

Like I said when I first read your list of previous cars, "G-Man, you are my hero!"

This forum will be poorer for your loss, you always had good cogent points- we'll miss ya!

S

Like at least some people here, I have one reason and one reason only for considering the RX-8 - a rotary engine. If this car had a normal piston engine it wouldn't make my short list.

I've always loved rotaries, so at least for me it's an RX-8 or keep what I've got, end of discussion.

Enjoy your EVO, though IMHO the wing's gotta go...

I was considering an EVO for a while myself, along with the G35C, as the only other alternatives to a RX-8. No one can deny the performance of the EVO. It's awesome. I only have three real issues with it: its cheap interior, questionable reliability, and dealer markup. I'm surprised, G-Man, with the collection of cars you have that you didn't find the interior way lacking in comparison. In addition, the 19psi or whatever amount of boost that runs through that thing questions how long the engine will last before requiring a replacement. In Germany, they sold the older EVO's (called Black Diamond) with something like a 3 month 10k (not miles) warranty. So I definitely am going to question how it will stand up over time.

But hey, it's an EVO, it goes fast as hell and handles pretty damn well being AWD and considering it was built of a small, cheaper, sedan platform. Congrats.

just a question, but what options and exterior color did you get for your rx8. Im looking for a blue 6speed rx8. The evo is a nice choice though. good luck with it.

Originally posted by BillK
Like at least some people here, I have one reason and one reason only for considering the RX-8 - a rotary engine. If this car had a normal piston engine it wouldn't make my short list.


Ditto! If it were pistons I wanted, 31K is too much money.:)

G-man, do you actually think it's appropriate to urge people to reconsider their car-buying decisions just because you changed your mind on yours?!?

Based on the 10 reasons you listed in your posting, I don't understand why you were considering the RX-8 at all. In my opinion, some cars just aren't appropriate for people with kids (especially kids of car seat age), four doors or not.

Originally posted by jtimbck2
G-man, do you actually think it's appropriate to urge people to reconsider their car-buying decisions just because you changed your mind on yours?!?


did you actually READ his post before making your assumption? here it is again, in case you skimmed past it...

Originally posted by G-man
My desire is not to have more people buy EVOs or try and convince people to cancel there orders, only to focus attention on the factors that lead to my decision...

Gordon, congratulations on your purchase and no one here has ANY right to question your decision...as you've said you have driven the car and instantly fell in love with it...whether or not you've driven the RX-8 the fact of the matter is you're absolutely ecstatic about the Evo and that's all that matters...

but it does sound like you plan on leaving and i'd like to add that you've been a great help to me with your words of advice...please consider sticking around a bit or at least stopping by from time to time...

enjoy your new toy!

After talking to my salesman who informed me that they will be marking up my 8 "but not sure how much", I decided to start making contingency plans for another vehicle. Last night i test drove a Miata LS 6 speed, nice fun car not a lot of room but I feel there is a lot of fun for the money in this car. Next is the S2000, more money nice redline, will drive it tonight. The salesman at the dealership where I test drove the miata said he had a black GT 6 speed 8 coming in that wasn't spoken for and not only will he not mark it up he will take $500.00 off of the price!! I really want my silver 8 but hey black will do. I'll still take some other drives while I wait for the 8. :D

G-Man: congrats on your new car purchase! :)

For your sitch, I see why you decided to cancel your order - however, just an opinion: you did mention that you were concerned about backseat space, the suicide doors, rear seat windows for your children; also trunk/storage space for strollers and such. Shouldn't 0-60 times NOT be on your list of reasons then?

Congrats again!

Originally posted by Gamera
Geez, with a collection of cars like that in your garage, what's another $30K?! Why not get both? :)

You know what... I just might do that. :) In the meantime, the EVO is due for the new Alpine 9000 series in-car DVD system and an MB Quart and Rockford Fosgate package that should really make the EVO delightfully entertaining even if the car is still still. :)

Who knows, if RECARO makes a kid seat that will work in the RX-8 then I may buy one, but RECARO makes the #1 safest seat for kids and the kids are still the #1 concern and priority. :) Those of you with kids will understand.

Originally posted by StealthTL
This forum will be poorer for your loss, you always had good cogent points- we'll miss ya!

Hey guys, come on... I am not dead, I just bought another car. I will still monitor the list with eager anticipation of actual delivery of the cars. :) Plus, you guys are a lot smarter than the people on the EVO Forums. ;)

Originally posted by rxtreme
I only have three real issues with it: its cheap interior, questionable reliability, and dealer markup. I'm surprised, G-Man, with the collection of cars you have that you didn't find the interior way lacking in comparison. In addition, the 19psi or whatever amount of boost that runs through that thing questions how long the engine will last before requiring a replacement.

Well, all of these are excellent points. Here are my thoughts. The Momo Steering Wheel feels more like plastic than leather, the Recaros are cheap cloth the dash and door panels might as well be made out of cardboard, but if you allow yourself to wander "into the zone" on a twisty mountain road (like 3 of the Car and Driver 10 Best Roads within 30 minutes of here) then you will see where the EVO shines.

As far as realibility, who cars. It comes with a full factory warranty, so what do I care. Also, I rately keep a car more than 15,000 miles, so it will likely be someone else problem. ;)

The 19psi is a real issue for me. The Porsche 911 Turbo only makes 12psi. Even the X-50 option only ramps that engine to 18psi max. This car is routinely remapped to 21psi all the way to red line by the tuners!!!! OH MAN! That is way too high to suit me... but I will drive it like I stole it, sell in within a year, buy 2 new Recaro Child Seats and a 2005 RX-8. ;)

Originally posted by NoVa
just a question, but what options and exterior color did you get for your rx8. Im looking for a blue 6speed rx8. The evo is a nice choice though. good luck with it.

Mine was Red/Black 6Speed GT package. Car is available at Duncan Mazda in Blacksburg, VA. See Steve Price for a great deal. Tell him Gordon Miller sent you. ;)

Originally posted by jtimbck2
G-man, do you actually think it's appropriate to urge people to reconsider their car-buying decisions just because you changed your mind on yours?!?

Based on the 10 reasons you listed in your posting, I don't understand why you were considering the RX-8 at all. In my opinion, some cars just aren't appropriate for people with kids (especially kids of car seat age), four doors or not.

Well, you know what they say "Opinions are like @ssholes, everybody's got one".

If you have been tracking the traffic on this forum you will find that all 10 of the issues that I brought up were raised by OTHER memebers of this forum at various times over the last few months. All I have done is consolidate them here and when you add up a number of those reasons, it makes you think about what Mazda was thinking. When the EVOLV was done, the rear seats actually had integrated rear child seats on both sides just like some of the current minivans today. That would have been nice.

As far as you telling me what to do with my money, my kids or my car buying dollars... you clearly don't have any kids so you have no room to talk or any frame of reference. If you were local, I would kick your @ss! Oh, yeah you are local. Ok, go get your RX-8 and we can settle this once and for all, the EVO is downstairs! Oh, that's right, you are still waiting for your RX-8... too bad. ;)

Originally posted by OmegaBob
I see why you decided to cancel your order - however, just an opinion: you did mention that you were concerned about backseat space, the suicide doors, rear seat windows for your children; also trunk/storage space for strollers and such. Shouldn't 0-60 times NOT be on your list of reasons then?

Let me see if I can put it into perspective for those of you without kids. I have owned a lot of exotic stuff over the last 3-4 years and my oldest son is now 3.5 years. He has ridden in my NSX, C4S, Miata, 911 Turbo, M3 Convertible. Since he has inherited my "need for speed", as I did from my father, he enjoys coming along for a ride. His brother is now over a year and wants to come along to satisfy his need for speed too. Of course, my wife would like to get out of the house from time to time to have a fun ride. So, performance is still important no matter if the kids are in the car or I am all alone.

Anyone who has ever been on a 4 hour+ trip with 2 kids under the age of 4 will not have to ask why the layout of the doors, access to the kids, safety and view out the window are important. I have even put the kids in the back of the 911, but that was not fun at all.

I think the RX-8 is a sexy and technology rich car. I just think that Mazda took their eye off the ball just a bit when they lost sight of the fact that part of their market was supposed to be the 30-40 years old family men like me that want a practical everday sports car that not only recognizes that you have a family, but responds to your needs to further reinforce continued brand loyalty to Mazda.

I just think that Mazda took their eye off the ball just a bit when they lost sight of the fact that part of their market was supposed to be the 30-40 years old family men like me that want a practical everday sports car that not only recognizes that you have a family, but responds to your needs to further reinforce continued brand loyalty to Mazda. /me scratches head profusely

Isn't that an intended target demographic of the RX-8? At what point specifically do you think they lost sight? It's obviously a godsend for rotary enthusiasts who now have families. It's a rotary, and it's a 4-door! What do you think is lacking for mass appeal?

Gordon make sure you read thru this (http://www.evolutionm.net/models/evo/pdf/usevotechmanual.php) if you haven't already. it's sort of the walkaround guide to the evo(originally posted here by Grimace, where the hell are you Grimmy?) anyway the last couple of pages talk about maintenance issues that you should be aware of. i know you can afford it but you don't want to slack on the maintenance because you weren't informed. good luck with the car:)

Iz all gud... hope you are enjoying your EVO..

$30K is an awesome price.. considering dealers here wont sell it for under $39K. Last two I saw go, sold at 39-42.. go figure.

I will hold my judgement on the EVO... don' be hatin.. haha

Congrats!

Originally posted by G-man

As far as realibility, who cars. It comes with a full factory warranty, so what do I care. Also, I rately keep a car more than 15,000 miles, so it will likely be someone else problem. ;)


You've never owned a Mitsubishi before have you? While their reliability reputation is worse than it actually is, their warranty service is somewhat lacking.

As far as the engine in the Evo, you shouldn't have any problems with it. It's the same block used in the 1st & 2nd generation eclipse GS-Ts and GSX's with a much better internals -- the old Eclipses are known for being able to run at insane boost levels without spending gobbs of money building them up.

What you will want to watch out for is the drivetrain ...

As far as realibility, who cars. It comes with a full factory warranty, so what do I care. Also, I rately keep a car more than 15,000 miles, so it will likely be someone else problem.

Well, in that case, it probaby won't make much difference for you. However, if your EVO has to spend a large portion of its time while under your ownership in the dealer maintenance bay being fixed, I imagine you might get annoyed after a while. Not saying it will happen, but in case it did. I know at least one FD owner who was always pissed because his car was always getting serviced. After his warranty ran out, well, then he was really pissed.

G-man, congrats on getting the EVO. Nothing wrong with that, its a cool car, but you have me puzzled.

If you have a 911 TT, M3, NSX and other hot machinery, why even consider the EVO or RX-8? Did you suddenly lose your shirt? Bad investments, stocks go bust, or just adjusting life's priorities - what gives?

If I could afford a 911 TT, but needed 4 doors, I'd be looking at something like an E55 AMG, M5, or RS6.

Originally posted by BRx8


did you actually READ his post before making your assumption? here it is again, in case you skimmed past it...



As a matter of fact I read his post carefully, more than once, and I made no "assumptions". My comments were based on this:

The RX-8 unfortunately comes up short on the 10 items above and I would ask you all to consider if these are important to you too before actually taking delivery of your RX-8.

I know it wasn't really Gordon's intention to attempt to turn people against the RX-8, but I'm also sure I wasn't the only person to get that impression from his post, and I just wanted to point that out. I've been in touch with him since, and there are no hard feelings (which is good, since I pass him occasionally going to and from work -- he lives down the road from me and his company is in the building across the parking lot from where I work).

Gordon doesn't need you or anyone else to defend him. He's a big boy.
:cool:

Originally posted by jtimbck2


As a matter of fact I read his post carefully, more than once, and I made no "assumptions". My comments were based on this:



I know it wasn't really Gordon's intention to attempt to turn people against the RX-8, but I'm also sure I wasn't the only person to get that impression from his post, and I just wanted to point that out. I've been in touch with him since, and there are no hard feelings (which is good, since I pass him occasionally going to and from work -- he lives down the road from me and his company is in the building across the parking lot from where I work).

Gordon doesn't need you or anyone else to defend him. He's a big boy.
:cool:

my bad, jtimbck2, i had no idea that you two knew each other and were just kidding around...please accept my apology

Originally posted by RX-Hachi
G-man, congrats on getting the EVO. Nothing wrong with that, its a cool car, but you have me puzzled.

If you have a 911 TT, M3, NSX and other hot machinery, why even consider the EVO or RX-8? Did you suddenly lose your shirt? Bad investments, stocks go bust, or just adjusting life's priorities - what gives?

If I could afford a 911 TT, but needed 4 doors, I'd be looking at something like an E55 AMG, M5, or RS6.

LOL, nice

Originally posted by G-man

As far as your insipid point:
#1: I can assure you that we have all gotten tired of waiting for the RX-8 since it seems like it is taking Mazda forever to deliver the car.
#2: If drivers are able to "fall in love" so easily with something else then maybe that love for the elusive RX-8 wasn't that strong in the first place
and my favorite...
#3: I can assure you that there are very few cars made today that are "out of my price range" so price has nothing to do with it. The EVO and the RX-8 cost within $100 of each other and I could by an EVO, and RX-8 and a WRX STi and still have enough money left over to buy whatever piece of crap you are currently driving with the proceeds from the sale of my 911 Turbo.

I didn't say all the rules applied to just you, I'm just saying that these are reason why people change there mind. I wasn't saying that you couldn't afford the car. How do I know how much you make... But it is true that people put deposits on a cars with a rush to judgement, and turn around and realise it doesn't fit in their budget.

G-man,

I have looked at the M3 and 911 myself! I have two daughters 6-4. I had a Boxster, but the two seater did not work (even as a third car) (I want to go , No I want to go sendrome).

What do you not like about the M3 or 911 (besides you already had them :o). I would be very interested in your opinion. I want the next car to be my primary not the third car.

I has come down to a 1999 Porsche 911 or the RX8 for me. I can get the 1999 911 for ~40K.

Thanks G-man,
Roachman

Patience is a virtue that often is rewarded...:o

Not to get in the middle of anything. But, I would be concerned about the resale of any Mitsubishi product. After having owned a Eclipse GT, I bought the convertible GT. Now only 15 months later the value has plummed by about $12K. While the car is nice, the cost to drive this vehicle is very high when you try to get rid of it.
I guess it is all the promos they have. Whilte the EVO is unique, I think you will see promos on these before the RX8s

I do not have the same concern for Mazda Rotary cars.

Having owned a 78, 80, 86, and two 1993s. I have broken even or made money trading to other cars.

I have been fortunate and have paid sticker or less than sticker for each of the rotaries. My RX8 was recently ordered at 1700 off sticker. It was a great deal from someone who wanted my 1993 rx7 with 27k miles. Sold the rx7 and made out okay on the new purchase.

G-man,

Please report any problem you have with your Evo in this forum.
Thanks.

G-Man EVO is nice .. good choice. The rx-8 is not crazy fast ... but fast , but every car has it's own appeal. Some have performance, others may have looks. 350Z, RX-8, Sti, EVO. There all tyte rides.

Hey G-Man congratulations. If the car makes you happy then go with it.

The one thing I am curious about it what u do. Your name would make you thing your work for the government, but i doubt most government employies make enough coin for the cars you have. You don't have to say if you don't want to, I am just the curious type.:)

Originally posted by cueball1029
Hey G-Man congratulations. If the car makes you happy then go with it.

The one thing I am curious about it what u do. Your name would make you thing your work for the government, but i doubt most government employies make enough coin for the cars you have. You don't have to say if you don't want to, I am just the curious type.:) He wants to know so he can do something similar and make the mucho deniro :)

Originally posted by Hercules
He wants to know so he can do something similar and make the mucho deniro :)

G Man makes alot of Robert Deniro's?

Originally posted by Superfan


G Man makes alot of Robert Deniro's?
Of course! He is a movie agent!

*wink*

Originally posted by Hercules
He wants to know so he can do something similar and make the mucho deniro :)
Thats one of the reasons.:)

i will never buy another mitsu ever again. My 2001 eclipse gt has had over 50 probs in two years it just turned two yaers 15 days ago. it has rust every on the body panels its my first car and my last mitsu ever. i was going to go buy a mitsu evo but with all the problems with my mitsu i will never even look at there new line up of cars.

first, congrats G-man on a great car!

second, i think G-man did a great recap of all the issues that have been posted in this forum over the past 3-5 months. he was very objective in the recap. what most people forget is that everybody has their own unique cirmcumstance; for example, Gordon rarely keeps his cars for more than 15,000 miles. In Texas, that's <15 months. If I had that luxury I wouldn't have even considered the RX-8 at all. I get something else and wait patiently for the 2005/6 model. Back to the recap, a lot of shortcomings/observations were made by people who have attended various Mazda promo events as Gordon pointed out. i also tend to believe these people since they have seen it first hand, but i think it's in everybody's human nature to want to see it for themselves. It's like that ol' Satuday Night Live skit in which the father tastes spoiled milk from his fridge and says "Man! That's so rancid! Here, you taste it!" and hands it to his son, who eagerly tastes it too. So anyway, the bottom line for me is that while I love reading what others have observed and will definitely keep my eye out for them, in the end, buying a car is such a personal preference that even if you tell me, "Man, the backseat is so small, or the car doesn't have enough torque!", I'll want to taste the spoiled milk for myself, thank you.

third, yeah, what's up with the "step down" in cars, g-man? i'd be rolling a C32 AMG if i had the $$. Heck, I'd consider giving up 4-doors and get the SLK AMG.

Good choice of vehicle and the reasons for choosing it. But having waited two years for the RX-8, why not wait just another 4 weeks and test drive one so that you have a valid comparison with a US production model RX-8 and KNOW that you are buying the right car for your needs (whichever car that happens to be).

Good choice of vehicle and the reasons for choosing it. But having waited two years for the RX-8, why not wait just another 4 weeks and test drive one so that you have a valid comparison with a US production model RX-8 and KNOW that you are buying the right car for your needs (whichever car that happens to be).

Exactly. Great suggestion.

Originally posted by G-man
Well gang, it has been real, and it has been fun... and actually it has been real fun too, but as of today, I canceled my order for the RX-8 and dropped $30K on the table and walked out with my new 2003 EVO. The discussions in this group actually helped me make up my mind. I love the fact that this group offers lively debate, an open mind and an ever more open forum. Thanks.

Over the course of the last few months that I have been an active participant on this site, I have discovered that my passion for all-wheel-drive and forced-induction is really what rules the day. It was hard coming from the 2002 911 Twin Turbo to think of buying something wtih 4 doors and still be happy. All I can say is that you have to weigh your options carefully and make up your own mind. For me, the EVO is the real deal!

I thought it would be helpful to offer my top 10 reasons why I canceled my order for the RX-8 in hopes it might stimulate further discussions. My desire is not to have more people buy EVOs or try and convince people to cancel there orders, only to focus attention on the factors that lead to my decision... so here are my top 10 reasons that I canceled my order and bought an EVO:

01) DELAY IN DELIVERY OF RX-8
This car has got to be the most hyped car in history with anticipation building for over 2 years. That is a lot of build up in to what is likely to be a let down for some buyers.

02) REALITY NOT LIVING UP TO THE HYPE
In many cases, the first drive tests complain about lack of power and other little things that seem trivial at first, but after re-reading many of the articles again and again, it is hard not to wonder where is all the torque and is 250hp really enough?

03) FREESTYLE DOORS
You either like them or you hate them, but many of you have discussed the difficulty of having to open the driver door just to let out the rear passengers. When you have kids, they are in and out all the time and that means more doors to open all the time.

04) SAFETY RECORD UNKNOWN
There was a discussion of safety and how light the car is and how irresponsible it was for someone to use this car as their primary mode of transport for the family. I don't think I would go that far, but it is true that it is unknown how the car will fare in US side impact tests and how you would get anyone out of the car in the event of a serious accident.

05) CLAUSTROPHOPIC BACKSEAT
Many of you have written about how the back seat in this car is really confining by virtue of the small "port hole" sized windows. I have noticed since I read that how much my kids enjoy looking out the windows as I am driving even on short trips. It seems silly to restrict their view.

06) TRUNK ACCESS AND STORAGE
Many of you commented on how the trunk is hard to get stuff into due to the small opening even if there is lots of room once you clear the opening. That gave me some cause for concern especially since things like the stroller, child seats, large luggage, golf clubs, etc have to go back there.

07) ICE (IN CAR ENTERTAINMENT)
As nice as the BOSE system is in this car, there is still no DVD option. The factory unit is VERY nice looking too, but the EVO comes with a base unit I won't worry about tossing for a $2,000 Alpine DVD unit and the Subaru Sti doesn't even come with a radio. :)

08) PERFORMANCE: 0-60 in 4.6 seconds
The Motor Trend test and my 20 minute test drive of the EVO made me a believer. This car is faster than my NSX, my M3 and feels almost as fast as my 911 Turbo. The handling of the EVO is insane! You have to drive it on a mountain road to really appreciate it. The RX-8 while fast, isn't that fast and I would have expected more.

09) BACK SEAT <90 DEG SEAT<> BACK ANGLE
Many of you have commented that the backseat of the RX-8 had a steeply raked seat base and that the seat back and base are actually at an angle less than 90 DEG. You can tell just how bad it is by the placement of the ISO-FIX latch system for the kid seats that sits a good 4" up from the union of the 2 at a point there you MUST use the latch system. I have the RECARO Start Child Seats and RECARO does not advise the use of those seats in the RX-8 just like it was not advised in my 2002 BMW M3 Convertible. Too bad and what a same for a car that was supposed to be targeted at the Family Man?! Who fell asleep on that deal. RECARO promises to make a new seat sometime next year that will work with this new system but current seats require 90 DEG or GREATER to be uses safely.

10) ALL-WHEEL DRIVE AND FORCED-INDUCTION
Well, when you get right down to it, I love to drive 90 mph in the rain. There really is nothing like it. Ever since my 1996 Porsche C4S, I have been sold on real world all-wheel-drive in a sports car. I also think that either super-charging or turbo-charging is also a welcome way to make buckets of cheap horsepower. So while good handling and other RX-8 pluses were important, you just can't beat the safety all-wheel-drive for interstate travel next to a 40 ft tractor trailer in a driving rainstorm near the freezing point. The EVO makes an insane level of 19psi of boost at just 3,500 RPM. You really have to drive it to appreciate it.

SUMMARY:
Now, I am sure you will all get your shots in about how ugly the EVO is and how beautiful the RX-8 is and I will have to agree with all of you on that point. Just keep in mind that beauty and styling can only go so far and in the final analysis you need the heart and soul of solid technology underfoot in order to build an enduring relationship with any car. The RX-8 unfortunately comes up short on the 10 items above and I would ask you all to consider if these are important to you too before actually taking delivery of your RX-8.

Thanks for allowing me to be a part of this wonderful group and if anyone knows an equally great place as this one for the EVO, please pass it along... you all are great! :) Thanks,

G-man

That's a very detailed and fair post. You have certainly come a long way from the "Why are You All Obsessed With Speed" thread. I felt the same way before I tested the EVO, but after driving it (a 2 different dealerships and back to back with the 350Z and S2000) I was grinning from ear to ear. The driving dynamics (i.e. steering feel, grip, powerband nature, etc.) are what make the car what it is. I think a lot of people try to dismiss the EVO (and the STI for that matter) as econoboxes souped up with an aftermarket turbo! Most people who have test driven the EVO are very impressed. In fact, if I'm not mistaken you are the third RX8forum member to switch from the RX8 to the EVO?

What color did you get and did you opt for the sunroof?

The EVO certainly is a great car. That's why we bought one (my brother drive it). Any one who buys for performance will NOT be dissappointed. HOWEVER, I personally cannot see myself driving it. It just didn't feel right for me: more evidence that a test drive is perhaps the most important thing.

If the RX-8 really SUCKS (during the test drive) then I'll get a S2000. But right now, I'm keeping my options open and waiting for my car to come in so I can know FOR SURE. :)

Whatever.

most of the people here that are getting the rx-8 are without a doubt rotary enthusiast. If you were never in love with the rotary the rx-8 would just appeal to you, like g-man he was appealed but is he a rotary enthusiast probably not, that's why he went for the evo. Sure he had those 10 reasons but if he was in love with the rotary he would careless.

"I got me a 4G63 engine on my car 2 so I already got my evo...lol."

Good choice G-Man. It's an amazing machine. I picked my EVO up a couple months ago. I think I was the first to jump ship to the EVO. All it took was one test drive and I was hooked. I just have two complaints:

1.) the gauges suck (compared to STi's and Mazda 6)
2.) paint quality is not too good.

Would I buy the car again? Hell Yeah!!!! I don't even want to list all the possitives. This car is so fun it should be illegal.

I've had zero problems in 3500 miles. In fact for those that think Mitsu's build quality is crap...we've had more problems with my wife's Mazda 6 than with the EVO. It's hard to compare the EVO's reliability and build quality to current Mitsubishi's because all the EVO's are built in Japan where I think they hold to a higher level of quality. Everything (materials, plastics, build quality...) is much better than the old Eclipses. I'm still taking a chance with reliability but it's one that I'm willing to live with because the EVO is that good.

Here's a good quote from someone over at evolutionm.net:

cheap/fast/reliable - pick two

Only time will tell how reliable the EVO will be.

moogle -
I love the rotary and I think it's an amazing design. But in the end it's an engine that powers the car. That engine did not meet my requirements. I wanted something that would run 1/4 miles in mid to low 13s stock and have power on tap at any rpm. The RX8 just didn't have the torque or power that I wanted. Now if a RX7 comes out in a few years with 300+ hp then I may reconsider. I wouldn't say that G-Man is not a rotary enthusiast because he wanted something with a bit more performance.

Anyways. Hope to see you over at evolutionm.net G-Man. Take care and have fun, it's not hard when driving an EVO.