Well I went for it and fitted some Nankang 245/40-R18's yesterday. $210 each.

I haven't really done any hard driving on them yet, but on initial impressions, they seem fine. Mind you, all I have to compare them to are the bald Potenza's they replaced. They are a comfortable ride and very quiet to drive on. I'll keep you all updated as I get used to them some more.

Only one thing caught me out when I bought them. When the tyres turned up at the shop, I found out that they were rated 97H, not 97W like I saw on the website. H tyres are rated to 210km/h, W's are rated to 270km/h. When I asked how much and how long for the 97W's, I was told that they were $275 each and would have to come from interstate. I 'ummed and 'arred for a few minutes, but in the end decided to go with the 97H's. I guess I'll just have to avoid any abrupt manoeuvring above 210km/h.

We'll see if you get what you pay for. I guess they only have to last half as long to get my money's worth....

I was lucky enough to pick up a set of the original tyres from rotaryenvy with 9000km on them for a reasonable price :D otherwise i was contemplating getting the Nankangs , they certainly look the part keep us posted of your findings ;)

cheers
michael

The pragmatist in me says that my car will never see speeds of over 120km/h (allowing for overtaking), so a maximum rating of 210 km/h seems fine for me. Wildcard, it would be great if you could report back on an occasional basis as to how they're running. These sorts of threads prove the value of the forum!

It is much better than what you think

H rated mean they have to sustain a certain load and certain distance at that speed before disintegrate.

But they do not test any grip or performance in this speed.

So bottom line - doesn't matter, it does not mean anything. Of course, Z tyre will generally better than the H rated tyres.

what do insurance companies say about lowering your speed rating; is it ok or do you give them a loop-hole not to pay?

^^ I don't know if they'd be smart enough to check. They almost didn't pay last time because my tyres were right up to the wear markers.

The guy in the tyre shop told me that the load rating (97) was more important than the speed rating (H/W).

Now that would be an ironic situation...

Case A... Insurance company refuses claim cause of an accident sustained on a track at 110km/h (which is max legal highway speed) on Z rated tyres.

Case B... Insurance company refuses claim of an accident sustained on a highway at 110km/h on "H" (210km/hr) rated tyres, cause the placard says 270 are needed :eek:

I'd have to think you were in the clear on that, Wildcard.

As for grip, I just checked wifies Nankangs, and the traction rating was "A" whereas the Yoko's are "AA". But on the flip side, the Nankangs are a "240" wear rating, and the Yoko's are "180".

I suppose one just must accept that these 2 features of a tyre are directly inversely related.

I wish I had given the Nankangs a go. Time will tell.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Update....

After a few more days behind the wheel, the tyres are performing well. No regrets so far. I haven't been out in the wet yet, so that will be the next test. :eek:

Is Wilcard around? Any updates on your Nankang tyres?

A mate of mine with a supercharged (Eaton) Monaro was speaking very highly of them today....


I recently changed my 245/35 Wanli's on the rear to some 265/30 Nankang NS2's. I can't believe how well the Nangkangs hold on. With the Wanli's squeezing it on in the wet in 4th and sometimes 5th at 100kph would result in wheelspin city, now with the Nangkangs I give stand on it in 3rd at a 100 and it just takes off with no wheelspin. Most times......



For $285 for a 265/30 19, I just had to give them a go and have been very pleasently surprised. I now just have to save up and put them on the front as well. I still have the Wanli's on the front and the understeer in the wet is bordering on rediculous.


Cheers,
Hymee.

Nankang NS2's are definitely great value for money........ I've got them on my 19's and they seem to work reasonably well.

Update - tyres still going fine.

Grip is good, which is good since they removed DSC from the latest flash (feels like it anyway!)

Any body got an idea about LEADER wheels? I'm looking at a set for about $1600.....(19inches)

Any body got an idea about LEADER wheels? I'm looking at a set for about $1600.....(19inches)

NFI, except the tyres might be expensive. :eek:

Will you fit NANKANGS to them?

Cheers,
Hymee.

Fitted 4 x Nankang NS2's myself yesterday at $220 each fitted and balanced. Immediate impression is quite ride. No rain yet but will post in a couple more weeks. Cannot beat that price though!
Originals lasted 38k.

Nice to see you there japfan!

Can't wait for your comment on this tyres. What size did you get? I wonder if it has 255/40-18

I found out their Chinese name in their Taiwanese website... it is actually cool to have some chinese on your car hehe.

南港輪胎

http://www.nankang.com.tw/tw/178_images/TopBarTopRight.gif

I'm surprised at you guys use nankang tires. In Taiwan, people drive a sport car with nankang tires usually for one reason : Its price is low compared with other imported tires. The other possible reason is: He would drive his car for drifting. In this condition, the grip of tires should be lower.

Well I suspect this is the reason for me if i change to Nankang too CHEAP :D

I am thinking that it is a waste to drive in Michellin since I don't fang with this tyre. I will have a semislick for track ;).

Just to see if it is safe. I guess if it meets Australian standard it has to be alright.

Fang :confused:

fang = driving safely and slowly, NOT :D. I only "fang" on the track, not on public road. Although this word typically assciated with "hoons" doing 120 in the 60 industrial zone in Friday/Saturday nights

Okay.. Thanks.. :rolleyes:

I got my tyres fitted today and I used Nankang 245's as well and I got the same story as you did Wildcard. What I did though was I rang my insurance company, AAMI (free plug) and they were fine with the load rating (97H) on the new tyres. I did tell them what the size and rating of the originals were. All they said was as long as the tyres were all the same size and they noted it on the policy that it didn't matter. Iasked her to send an ammendment to me to verify this.
SWEET...... :D

What size, how much and where from?
And how many km's did you get on the original tyres?
(sorry for all the questions) :-)

Go back to the first page of this thread, and nearly all will be revealed... :eek:

What size, how much and where from?
And how many km's did you get on the original tyres?
(sorry for all the questions) :-)

I'll answer for you Scotty.... :)
They were 245x40x18 97H, $205 fitted in Brissy.
I got 38,000 from my originals....although only just.
cheers,
rx88er

When's the next cruise day Hymee?

Thanks rx88er.
The reason I ask is that I have been doing some shopping around and a guy at the local GoodYear Auto Service Centre says he can do them for $185 fitted and balanced. (Hampstead Gardens - SA) Sounds like a good deal. I wanted to check that you went for the same size and rating as WildCard, and that I was pricing the same tyre.
I have reached 30,000 kms and will need new ones pretty soon.

Sorry Scotty. Was having a cranky attack (at something else).

Sounds like a good price!

Cheers,
Hymee.

No worries Hymee, I know how you feel.
I have a weekly report due in 10 minutes but I would rather cruise the rx8 forum.
(or even better, go for a cruise in my rx8 for that matter!)

Geez, that's a f@#*ing good price.
After 1 day with new rubber.....seems to be a little quieter than the originals....hard to say with the Hymee Exhaust thumping out the arse end. vvvrrrrrrooooommmmmm!!!!

rx88er,

Good for you. The forum will benefit from a second opinion on the Nankangs. Can't beat the price if nothing else. I have nothing bad to say about them so far and I have now done 4000km with them, including some very spirited driving last weekend.

Taka's use of the word "fang" reminds me it is a very old expression indeed, dating back to the '50's. It means "to drive like Juan Fangio", the great F1 driver of the time.

I was asked recently how the Nankangs were going, so I thought I'd post an update.

I've put 7000km on the new tyres so far. No complaints. I certainly don't claim to be a tyre expert by any means, but grip is still good and they are certainly not noisy.

I just had a look at the tread remaining above the wear marker, and seeing how much they have weared in 7000km, and I can't see why they wont last 30,000km like my stock tyres did.

That's it for now! You can all see for yourself at Wakefield.

Wildcard

And they have a rim edge protecter rib too - this I like!

I only have 12,500 Km's on my car and at this rate I will need tyres in 3 years time - eek! :eek:

Joe

I'm up for tyre replacement in about 1 sexy burnout or a 1000kms or so.

Can anyone with 1st hand experience on these tyres give me a rating on them compared

to any other high preformance tyre on the market.

Cheers.

And they have a rim edge protecter rib too - this I like!

I only have 12,500 Km's on my car and at this rate I will need tyres in 3 years time - eek! :eek:

Joe

I saw a 1 cm chunk out of the rib on my rear left tyre the other day - obviously did its job when I wasn't doing mine! :eek:

Hey JoeB - you coming to the Nats in October?? :)

Revolver

At this stage I have to say maybe. I have a business and have no staff at the moment and with the weather heating up like it is, I don't know how I am going to cope in October if the staffing situation isn't resolved.

Joe

Thanks JoeB - ignore my PMs if you've not read them already.

A couple of updates on how the Nankangs are going....

First of all, they were good enough to get a 1:16.4 at the Nats for my first time driving at Wakefield Park. Sure the supercharger helped on the straight, but if the Nankangs were not up to the job in the corners, the same time would not have been possible. I think there were only 3 cars faster on street tyres.

Second, I got a puncture on the freeway on the way home. It took me a while to work out what the problem was, so by the time I pulled the car to a stop from 110km/h, the inside wall had shredded. Check out the pics... Good thing Triple G had his spare tire with him. All I had was my can of goo, which would have been useless in this situation.

Rather than replace one tyre, I decided to buy two new 225's for the front. So I now have 225's front and 245's rear. The tires I bought for the front were Nankang NS2 225/45ZR18 91W. $195 each. I went for the W rated tires this time given my impending move to the land of no speed limits.

My initial driving impressions are that the 225's give better steering response than the 245's. Steering also feels lighter, and there feels like less squirm in hard cornering. I think 225's front and 245's rear is the go.

The first photo is of the puncture.
The second photo is of the shredded inside wall.
The third photo is of the new 225's fitted. Happy again!

wild,
did you replace the pair or just one?

The tires I bought for the front were Nankang NS2 225/45ZR18 91W. $195 each. I went for the W rated tires this time given my impending move to the land of no speed limits.

My initial driving impressions are that the 225's give better steering response than the 245's. Steering also feels lighter, and there feels like less squirm in hard cornering. I think 225's front and 245's rear is the go.



I'm surprised you were able to buy the stock size 225/45 from Nankang. I didn't see them listed on their website when I looked a few months ago, but when I just checked, there they are! At that price, you probably can't go wrong!

Hey Wild,

any reason why u chose the 245's for the back and 225's for the front?

How about winter driving experience? Or at least wet conditions?

looks like your lucky the tyre didn't come off the rim.

would the track time have weakened the side wall?

I got a puncture on the freeway on the way home. It took me a while to work out what the problem was, so by the time I pulled the car to a stop from 110km/h, the inside wall had shredded. Check out the pics... Good thing Triple G had his spare tire with him. All I had was my can of goo, which would have been useless in this situation.


Hey mate u sure u couldn't fix that with goo :SHOCKED: :lol: :lol: (jus kidding), lucky u had tripple G with ya :yesnod: :cool: :cool: . The only thing is u make me remember about my tyres nowSHOCKED:, haven't had a chance to change them yet :crazy: :Freak_ani :crazy: , but some good info here for when I do :yesnod: :cool: .

Cheers :wavey: ,
Waldo

looks like your lucky the tyre didn't come off the rim.

would the track time have weakened the side wall?

No, the tyre was flat. Running on flat tyres is not a recipe for long sidewall life.... :) .

wild,
did you replace the pair or just one?

Rather than replace one tyre, I decided to buy two new 225's for the front. So I now have 225's front and 245's rear

:doh: :) :)

Good to hear there's another supplier of 225/45's, as I now reckon 245s are just too wide (=too much squirm) for the 8" rim. Will be interested to hear how they work for you.

$195 :tightass: :lach:

No, the tyre was flat. Running on flat tyres is not a recipe for long sidewall life.... :) .

Unless you are running though run flat tyre from Bridgestone - they are standard in the Z4 and I think I should get that for the road tyre.

Good to hear there's another supplier of 225/45's, as I now reckon 245s are just too wide (=too much squirm) for the 8" rim. Will be interested to hear how they work for you.

:sad: I think I need the 8.5" for my slick or drop them down to 235 on the Dunlop. Both of which cost the same amount of money. I think 8.5" will be perfect for the 245 though and I will have a spare 8" to sell or put into another Mazda.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did anyone else notice that Ric Shaw was running 235's on his 9.0 rears?

Good to hear there's another supplier of 225/45's, as I now reckon 245s are just too wide (=too much squirm) for the 8" rim. Will be interested to hear how they work for you.

Timbo, have you tried putting up the pressure to 260kPa (~38 psi)? On the advice from Fulda, I did this, and although I'm not an authority by any stretch, my 245's now seem squirm free.

It's interesting to note that on the Nankang website, the 225/45's are listed for a 7.5" rim. This is consistent with what the guy from Fulda was saying that 225/45's are on the small side for 8".

I think that the amount of shared information on just this subject alone shows just how valuable this forum is.

Guys, could there be a chance that a 225 on one tyre will fit the 8" better than another tyre? I am start thinking that....

But I also hear the comment that the stock 225 was a very tight fit for the stock rim and it is easier to fit a 235 and a 245 in the stock rim...

I think the 245/40 is the best match for the 225 in terms of circum but I think 235 for road use is great there is only 1kmh difference when Stu and I are playing with our cruise control on Hume. It is the best feeling I get for steering IMO (love my Michellin ;))

Keep gathering thoughts on difference size since Nankang may be able to produce a 235/40 :lol2:

For the tyre pressure - I think during the Nats we have a quite warm track and a few of us are dropping tyre pressure to reduce bounce - I come from 36 cold (that is why I came in early after the first session guys) to 29 psi cold on my semis and still think I am overpumped. I think people have it 32 psi cold for the track and worked well.

Timbo, have you tried putting up the pressure to 260kPa (~38 psi)? On the advice from Fulda, I did this, and although I'm not an authority by any stretch, my 245's now seem squirm free.


Yes, I usually run about 38psi for that very reason. But after running them on the track you can still feel them moving much more than I recall for the OEMs. This was proven objectively by MACCAA and cronullarx8, too.

I guess Mazda settled on the 225 size for a reason. It's just a pity they haven't lobbied more tyre mfrs to build them :(

I think it's more tread design than the 245 width that is the problem.The Toyo T1R's that I use and the YOKO's Timbo have are a similar tread,much like a wet weather race tyre design.It's the tread that's moving,not the tyre being overwide for the rim.Rod's 245 Bridgestone SO3's are more like the OE tyre in tread,and were better.
Having said that,the Toyo is a better road tyre,quieter and better riding.Depends what you are looking for in a tyre.
Now if they made the OE tyre in 245..........
Cheers
Len

I guess Mazda settled on the 225 size for a reason. It's just a pity they haven't lobbied more tyre mfrs to build them

Coz 225 is a common size in Japan and 235 is a common size in Europe - do I sense this right? I conclude this since I read a lot of ads from tyre shop in japan and 225 dominates the on sale new tyre section. Most car now are in 225 (some are 18" but most are 17").

I'm running 245/40/18 rear (eagle F1 GSD3);
225/45/18 front (RE040);

And the setup is completely messed up for me. DSC intervention threshold has dropped to a ridiculous point that I'm scared to take a rounabout at the speed limit!

Either my DSC is screwed or what others have been saying is that the car is reading different speeds on the front tyres and rear tyres hence slipping and the DSC kicking in. With the DSC OFF the grip is amazing even on my shoddy front RE040s worn out. I don't think I've had any tyre squirm since a couple of months back with RE040s all around. I like the staggered setup, besides the DSC problem that comes with it, but have a good feeling that 245's all around won't be as exceptional.

Is this DSC problem occurring with your setup wildcard?

When yuo think about it, thi and other similar threads started because Bridgestone service the Australian market so badly. If as Taka says, the 225/45 is such a common size in Japan, maybe we should be writing to various tyre companies alerting them to the fact that the supplier of stock tyres to the RX-8 has essentially abandoned this car in Australia. Given that these are high margin tyres, we may attract some other makers to providing some competition. When I wrote to Fulda mentioning the performance of the 245/40's, I told them that Bridgestone wasn't doing much of a job here for us and they could possibly have a piece of the action if they made 225/45's.

And the setup is completely messed up for me. DSC intervention threshold has dropped to a ridiculous point that I'm scared to take a rounabout at the speed limit!

:scratchhe Just a thought. Try resetting the ECU. Maybe the DSC will recalibrate itself to the new sizes after the reset. The sizes aren't that different and there must be plenty of people now with staggered set-ups

Good point Timbo. Have had a thought about doing this, but don't know how to reset the ECU?? LOL

Search is my best friend i guess...

EDIT: Have done the brake pump and ODO RESET 'TEST' thing and its still a problem.

How do I get the fronts to wear out quicker so I can go 245 all around? LOL

Is this DSC problem occurring with your setup wildcard?
I can't say I have noticed any DSC problems with the new tyres.

It's hard to say though, because with the supercharger I am seeing more DSC than I used to anyway.

The tyre size is a parameter that is configured in the PCM... AFAIK it isn't "learnt". The latest flash (recall) apparently increases the threshold for the DSC kicking in. I'm yet to confirm... need to take the car to a few places where I could reliably get it to kick in (due to rough road conditions around a corner).

It is annoying that these updates get installed with no owner information provided... changing this sort of stuff can be a safety issue. "Release notes" or manual addendums should be provided to owners particularly when the changes are significant.

I've only noticed a threshold decrease in the DSC system since my new flash.

staggered 225 245 isn't the way to go for my car it seems.

I've only noticed a threshold decrease in the DSC system since my new flash.

staggered 225 245 isn't the way to go for my car it seems.

get it check out again tuan, i have had no problems with my 245/35 and 275/30 staggered setup :wink2:

Have now done 10000km's on the Nankangs. Everything appears to be OK. Driving experience has not been diminished for road work.
Am starting to get a noise like a flat spot though at above 100kph so i will reserve my opinion for another 5000km.

I am not experiencing any DSC problems with the staggered 225/245 setup. I wouldn't expect it to either. The rolling diameters are almost the same.

If you aren't aware I smashed my rim a while back and thoght the tyre was OK. Well turns out the tyre WALL was OK but the tread surface as a buldge. As well I need to replace the wheel hub(?).

Anyways, I have been quoted ~$420 (give or take $10) for a single Potenza RE040 and also sourced Nankang 235/40ZR18 XL 95W for $145 a tyre.

Does anyone see an issue with running the 235/40 Nankangs at the rear and 225/45 Potenzas at the front? If not, then I will rotate the rears to the front and replace the rears with the nankangs.

Cheers

Andrew

I do.

I've had regretful moments. with staggered but stunned that wildcard is running with it fine.
I also made the decision to run two separate brands of tyres like what you're deciding now.
I'm thinking it could be the tread design thats causing dsc to go nuts. So my suggestion is if you go staggered, go staggered with the same FRONT and REAR. But as wildcard is using, staggered 225 245 in the same brand works fine for him.

So my suggestion is if you go staggered, go staggered with the same FRONT and REAR

Are you saying go with the same "tread pattern" FRONT and REAR but different width?

Andrew

I'm thinking it could be the tread design thats causing dsc to go nuts.

:scratchhe :scratchhe :scratchhe

Cheers,
Hymee.

:scratchhe :scratchhe :scratchhe

Cheers,
Hymee.

:uhh:

Me :Wconfused too?

Are you saying go with the same "tread pattern" FRONT and REAR but different width?

Andrew

i think thats what he meant.

and i dont think different thread pattern front and back would make the DSC go bananas..... :Freak_ani

Logically speaking I can see it being a possibility as different tread patterns and compounds will cause different grip conditions, therefore causing slightly different roationaly speeds being picked up by the DSC.

This of course is if rotation speed is what DSC uses to determine if the wheel(s) are spinning.

Andrew

I can not see different tread patterns causing more differential than as occurs normally, such as when you are driving around a corner, as each of the 4 wheels describes a different radius, hence rotational speed.

I can only believe one might have a "problem" if you used grossly different rolling diameters.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Fair point, and also weights into the point that a few poeple are running 225/45 front and 235/40 or even 245/40 rears with no probs.

I just wonder how many who are having the problems are yet to get the new Flash that increases the DSC threashold and how many who dont have the problem do have it.

Andrew

Here's the scenario:
225/45/18 FRONT RE040
245/40/18 REAR EAGLE F1
DSC went skitz at Hyundai speeds on a bend or even a roundabout. (DSC THRESHOLD DROP)
All 4's 245/40/18 EAGLE F1. Back to normal.
Wildcard:
225/45/18 NANKANG
245/40/18 NANKANG
He says it works fine.

Here's the scenario:
225/45/18 FRONT RE040
245/40/18 REAR EAGLE F1
DSC went skitz at Hyundai speeds on a bend or even a roundabout. (DSC THRESHOLD DROP)
All 4's 245/40/18 EAGLE F1. Back to normal.
Wildcard:
225/45/18 NANKANG
245/40/18 NANKANG
He says it works fine.

Yep thats wht I thought...something like that anyway. Well at least at $145 for the 235/40's its only $290 to change over the fronts if its an issue.

Andrew

would resetting the ECU work in RXP's case?

Tried 2 different ways of resetting on the forum somewhere.
Didn't help.

would resetting the ECU work in RXP's case?

Sco answered that

The tyre size is a parameter that is configured in the PCM... AFAIK it isn't "learnt". The latest flash (recall) apparently increases the threshold for the DSC kicking in. I'm yet to confirm... need to take the car to a few places where I could reliably get it to kick in (due to rough road conditions around a corner).

It is annoying that these updates get installed with no owner information provided... changing this sort of stuff can be a safety issue. "Release notes" or manual addendums should be provided to owners particularly when the changes are significant.

Wildcard:
225/45/18 NANKANG
245/40/18 NANKANG
He says it works fine.

I'm still running this setup with absolutely nothing out of the ordinary to report.

It is not the tread pattern that makes the diff. It is the "slip angle" that the dsc senses as something wrong. Using the same tire in a different size will be ok to a point as wildcard prooves. Using a different brand of tire will toss a curve (pun intended) to the car. It will also do it to the driver. Maybe what you feel is not the dsc but the tire diff yourself. You will feel it like one end has low pressure.

In fact the more I think about it this is probably what is happening. You are more sensitive then the computer. Staggering the tire size is a long used trick with rear drive cars. I think with added power this is going to be nessasary anyhow.

The only way to know for sure is to take a bunch of tires and wheels ans two or three cars to the track.

Driving with staggered tires of different tread pattern feels like crap and extremely unsafe.

The car felt unbalanced and felt like it rolled around alot. Does that have anything to do with the different sidewall stiffness etc on the tires?

Yes, the construction changes the slip angle. Not to say one type construction is better then the other just if they are different you will feel it if you drive.

Didnt someone mention tyre pressure before. I am sure that affects things. Especially when you have different wall heights.

Andrew

A very old article but not the tyre configuration they are running:

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/mazda-rx8-extreme.htm

Andrew

Greetings All,
Could I ask those with Nankangs where you got them from - was it a chain like Bob Jane, Jax, or one of the other big mobs ?

I'm on the NSW Central Coast and we have most or all of the major players here but it could take a while on the phone to locate tyres so any help with seller would be appreciated.

I looked on the Nankang web site but couldn't find a list of stockists anywhere.

I was told the other day by a mechanic issuing me a blue slip for the RX-8 (long story - will share soon !) that our front tyres are beginning to scrub on the inside and are only just legal (it's at 29,500kms) so I might as well change them all and Nankangs are looking like the replacement.

Thanks again,
Jeffneil

both places have nahkang tyres.... and im 99.99% sure that they would ship them australia-wide

http://www.agrtyres.com.au/index.asp

http://www.tempetyres.com.au/products.asp?index=Nankang

http://www.paylesstyres.com

I got a set for the wifes '6 from a Bridgestone franchise.

Got mine from Jax. No-one seems to have trouble ordering them.

Wildcard, I am nearly ready to order my new tyres after the last track day. I am really curious about these tyres in the wet. Hows the weather been up there recently? Able to give some feedback on wet weather handing?

I put 4 x 235's on mine a few weeks ago now, and all OK. Hit a few big puddles at highway speeds, and no probs.

Are they 235/40's? or 45's ? do you find a difference with the 235's?

Wildcard, I am nearly ready to order my new tyres after the last track day. I am really curious about these tyres in the wet. Hows the weather been up there recently? Able to give some feedback on wet weather handing?
Sorry but I can't offer you anything. I bought myself a shit-box daily driver when I got here and as a result I haven't driven the RX-8 in the wet yet. Actually, I haven't driven it at all for almost a month!

Actually, I haven't driven it at all for almost a month!

Sounding dire. :( Did you also miss out on blowing the crap out of that heroin boat? - looked like fun. :mdrmed: Don't worry if you're not allowed to say.

oops, I'm OT again. :o:

So, how are those Nakangs in the wet...anybody?

Hows that...A bloody SC'ed RX-8 and its sitting in a garage!

Hymee? Are you around? Are your new tyres 40? or 45 profile? do you find a difference with the 235's performance/handling wise?

Andrew

Andrew, they'd have to be 40's. It's a common size used on HSVs and FPVs, that's why the price is always pretty good for them

Not having a go, just pointing out that its not necessarily an obvious answer

Rim Size | Width | Profile | Rolling Radius
18 225 45 659mm
18 235 45 669mm
18 235 40 645mm
18 245 40 653mm

When you consider that you are allowed a 14mm margin on the Rolling Radius, it looks to me to be an even bet on 40(-14mm)/45(+10mm) in the 235s but 45's would be closer.

But for my money the 245/40's are a closer match (-6mm).

All of these are allowable on the 8" rim.

Andrew

Hymee? Are you around? Are your new tyres 40? or 45 profile? do you find a difference with the 235's performance/handling wise?

Andrew

235/40 ZR 95W

Cheers,
Hymee.

None taken Andrew, it's just those with '03 cars have done all those calcs with the first change of tyres and 235/45s is a pretty rare size in 18", if it exists at all (probably as rare as 225/45 :eek: )

Cool!. OK so those with 235, did the extra width help, hinder or make no difference to the feel of how the car drives?

Andrew

My personal preference on my next set would be to go back to 225/45s and preferably the OEM 040's. Track day studies, especially the Nats and thereafter, by MACCAA prove pretty convincingly that it is a damn good tyre mainly due to its compound.

Failing that, I'd go for 235's, simply because there is a lot more choice of tyre around. I presently have Yoko ES100 245/40's and I have to say while they are ok on the road and in the wet, they tramline more, and are not good on the track -- lots of squirm :(

Cool!. OK so those with 235, did the extra width help, hinder or make no difference to the feel of how the car drives?

Andrew

I definitely feel that I've got better grip over the OEM rubber but I don't know if that's due to the 235 width, the different tyre (PS2) or even just a placebo because I want to justify the expense to myself.

Frankly, with the exception of stove hot drivers who really can assess the car's performance accurately, I reckon you'd be hard pressed to pick significant differences between quality tyres (like the PS2, OEM's and the GY's others have been discussing) in 90% of the driving we do. Can't speak for the Nankangs though.

I think the only sure thing is to compare laptimes but even that can be problematic in terms of consistency and do you really want to choose a tyre based only on track performance (slicks excepted)?

Sorry, should add that my 235's are fitted to 8.5 rims, so I believe (and I'm sure there's any number of experts out there to flame me on this) that I'm getting extra width (and therefore marginally more grip) but without the tyre squirm that may happen with 235's or 245's on the OEM rims.

It's a black art alright. :Eyecrazy:

It could be a placebo effect. I certainly felt like I was getting more grip...until the laptimes told otherwise.

Hmmm....wonder how labrat's Fulda Excelero's (sp?) are going

I knw on my SP20 I went to the next size up (I think it was from 195 to 205's or was it 205 to 215) and it made a massive differnce. Difference of course is FWD.

I agree that its hard to compare brands. But what it sounds like is that there is minimal difference found between 225 and 235 on the 8 that is all I really wanted to know.

fwiw my first thoughts are that with a wider rim your ride would feel better as there would be less squirm. but thats my un educated, 5 second thoughts.

I used nangkang tyre before, they ok except that, I dont know if you encountered it yet, the steering bound to pull to one side, either left or right if you let go the steering wheel. At first I thought it's just a normal alignment thing but when I took it to my friend who do the alignment, he looked at my tyre and immediately laugh and said "nangkang?" . According to him, nangkang tyre always has a history of pulling one side the steering wheel if you let go. No matter how perfect you alignment, it still pulling to one side eventhough its a brand new tyre. So at the end I have to change to a new brand of tyre ( I used yokohama) and the problem solve.

It could be a placebo effect. I certainly felt like I was getting more grip...until the laptimes told otherwise.

Hmmm....wonder how labrat's Fulda Excelero's (sp?) are going

I've got about 12k km on them now, and I'm still happy. They're great in the wet, very quiet, and at 260kPa, there's no squirm under normal road driving conditions and as far as I can tell, the handling is great. Of course, I can't comment about how they'd handle under track conditions, and it is most likely that slower times and squirm would be observed - after all, they are near the maximum for an 8" rim. From a purely aesthetic point of view, they give the car a very aggressive stance. Would I buy the Fulda's again? From the point of view of this strictly boulevard sports car driver, the answer is yes.

We went into this some time ago, but I'm sure the reason for the performance with the stock tyres is due to putting on 225's on an 8" rim. As the guy from Fulda's technical department, 225's are near the lower limit for 8", and I suspect this is a smart move by Mazda to get increased performance by stretching the tyre and giving less sidewall flex. Revolver has obviously had good advice in putting 235's on 8.5" rims, as this will give him a similar effect.

We went into this some time ago, but I'm sure the reason for the performance with the stock tyres is due to putting on 225's on an 8" rim. As the guy from Fulda's technical department, 225's are near the lower limit for 8", and I suspect this is a smart move by Mazda to get increased performance by stretching the tyre and giving less sidewall flex. Revolver has obviously had good advice in putting 235's on 8.5" rims, as this will give him a similar effect.

Exactly what I was trying to achieve.

I feel that I've ended up with the best of both worlds - the sharpness of turn in and balanced feel of the OEM set-up but with more grip and a better ride. That they're quieter and I'm told will wear longer are added bonuses.

I'm very happy with them. :)

I used nangkang tyre before, they ok except that, I dont know if you encountered it yet, the steering bound to pull to one side, either left or right if you let go the steering wheel. ...( I used yokohama) and the problem solve.
This is a 'tramlining' effect which increases with width. I have the same with my 245 Yokos, so I wouldn't necessarily condemn the Nankangs
I've got about 12k km on them now, and I'm still happy. They're great in the wet, very quiet, and at 260kPa, there's no squirm under normal road driving conditions and as far as I can tell, the handling is great.
Thanks labrat...was very interested in progress on these, as they read well, and were nicely priced

Well put Nankangs on the rear today. They will come off tomorrow. DSC cuts in at the speed limit and the whole car just feels terrible.

did they balance the wheel properly before fitting?

yep included balance wonder if the probb is the original tyres still on front?

yep included balance wonder if the probb is the original tyres still on front?


shouldnt be problem? alot of people have different sizes/ staggered set ups front and rear....

someone had similar problems before with diffenert tyres front and back too...

have you tried with DSC off?

strange :(

Actually, this exact problem has been reported before. What's more, the report was earlier in this very thread -- see post 55 from RXP33D (http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1103543&postcount=55) but I can't see what Tuan's solution was (I guess...new tyres :scratchhe )

i need new rears badly.. fronts not so bad, going with good year eagles F1 245/40/R18's. im replacing fronts aswell even tho they not so bad.. someone wise told me dont mix the tyres................(taka lol)

thats interesting how the DSC picks up differently cuz of diff size tyres? i dunno much about it.. its pretty good isnt it lol

difference in grip front and rear = easy

I take bak wat i said about staggered set up been ok

i just read this thread:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=50607&page=1&pp=15

Well now I don't know what to do:
Today my worn out Bridgestones go back on the back while we figure it out.
Options as I see it are
Spend a $1000 and put new Bridgestones on the rear with the need for new fronts in 3 months, having concluded that the Nankangs are crap.
Put new Nankangs on the front and see if that fixes the DSC cutting in at walking pace.
Put a full set of yokahamas on for around $1400 all up.

Then I know I'm going to have an arguement with Beaurepairs at Virginia over the Nankangs which now have 60 km's on them.

Help

Help is easy.

I had 4 x Nankangs (235's) fitted, and I don't feel they are crap. $220 each. Bridgestone Tyre Center at Kallangur.

I think you just need to put two of the same Nankangs on the front as what you have on the back. Problem solvered.

I have prooved (via other methods) that speed differential between front and back cause DSC system faults.

Other than your DSC faults, why are they crap?

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee thats the only reason so far haven't been able to push it hard enough to find out. If the Nankangs work it should leave enough money for a decent exhaust!

I have prooved (via other methods) that speed differential between front and back cause DSC system faults.

Any idea what the tolerance is, Hymee? As it seems some staggered set-ups generate DSC faults, but others don't :scratchhe

Hmmm. I don't know if I should give away any trade secrets!

But put it this way - the front and rear wheel position sensors have a different number of teeth. And if you feed the signal from the rear to the front....

As for tolerence... Didn't Wildcard have a staggered setup? If that worked OK, then isn't at least within the tolerance range?

Cheers,
Hymee.

Yeah, but so in theory is the set-up that RXP33D and nugsdad used...I guess the difference arises because in both cases, the front 225's were worn :scratchhe

I'd just go for 4 the same. Last time I ran a staggered setup was on the Leyland ;)

Cheers,
Hymee.

???

Who knows what's going on. DSC doesn't know what brand of tyre you are using though, so why should it matter?

Maybe you do get what you pay for and Hymee and I are just lucky....

Or perhaps DSC cuts in more for some people than others because of different driving technique.

If your fronts are 3 months from being replaced then they are anywhere from 4-6mm lower than the nankangs you put on the back. Also, did you mention if they were the same profile and width? becacuse as has been mentioned in this thread, staggered doesnt work well.

You could try something.....Put the rears at the front and fronts at the rear. See if it kicks in still.

Andrew

with two tyres with different grip potentials you can change the handling significantly.
I'd guess the re40's on the front have more grip, making it more likely to oversteer and hence make the DSC kick in.

have a look at this link to diagnose under-oversteer characteristics.
http://rogerkrausracing.com/overundr.html

Everything else being equal, a staggered set-up on a car as neutral as the 8 would tend to accentuate any understeering handling tendencies, ie, approximately neutral grip on all four tyres altered by a larger rear tread area, shifting grip rearwards. Of course, if you increase power output (ie, through FI), then you might want to increase rear grip to compensate for the easier loss of traction at the rear due to higher output. It's always an interesting game ;)

As to DSC curring in, reading back, I think auzoom has hit it above. It seems to me that in all cases where DCS is causing problems, it is because of a staggered set-up created by fitting new oversize rears with worn OEM fronts, eg, new Nankang (or other) 245/40 rear with worn B/S 225/45 040's on the front. As Andrew points out, the additional wear on the OEMs probably reduces their rolling circumference well out of the DSC's calibration, hence the problem.

Solution? Well, unless you have or are getting a major power upgrade, stick to the same sized tyre all round for best handling results and no DSC crazies. If you are going to do a staggered set-up, then you need to give close attention to a set-up where there is minimal difference in the rolling circumference between the front and rear tyres. But don't be surprised if the car doesn't handle as well :(

the staggered theory assumes the nankangs have grip :P

the staggered theory assumes the nankangs have grip :P
True.;) but to be fair, I haven't heard anyone with a full, new set of Nankangs complain about grip issues

that's because when the front is the same as the rear you don't notice, since girp is the same front and rear. If the staggered setup had more grip because of the width (and the nankings) the car would push in the turns and DSC wouldn't be noticed as much.

OK, I'm confused. Is the problem experienced the DSC kicking in, or going into an error state?

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee, from what I can tell its the DSC kicking in, ie the ECU is applying braking to a particular wheel which it thinks is spinning/has to much power going to it.

Only the people with the Nankangs can say if there is grip or not, but in this day and age, I cant imagine a tyre available that wouldn't be safe for daily driving. Tracking is another issue.

Thanks. Different to what I experienced when the ABS/DSC system was fed a real wheel signal to the front sensors. Different number of teeth - so I was thinking donw the different diameter path. Obviously thinking out too loudly. ;)

Cheers,
Hymee.

Its the DSC kicking in I'll try Nankang's all round on Tuesday....stay tuned

Obviously thinking out too loudly. ;) You know you have a very loud brain!

Seriously, I am lost on what you are saying because I would have thought it was the same results. As the front wheels are now (in rolling diameter terms) a reasonable amount smaller than the new rear wheel, the front sensor is turning faster than the rear one...in this instance, faster than normal.

You know you have a very loud brain!

Seriously, I am lost on what you are saying because I would have thought it was the same results. As the front wheels are now (in rolling diameter terms) a reasonable amount smaller than the new rear wheel, the front sensor is turning faster than the rear one...in this instance, faster than normal.

OK, I'll try to explain more. I've done a number of experiments with the ABS/DSC system in the very early days to try and overcome the perceived "you can't dyno an RX-8" thing.

One of the things involved disconnecting the sensors. This threw an error condition with DSC/TC lights displayed. The car drove OK, just no ABS or TC/DSC happening.

Another experiment was to feed the signal from the rear wheels to the front, in attempt to fool the ABS system to think the front and rear wheels were going at the same speeds. This did not cause the DSC to "kick-in" but still caused the same error condition. From memory, all was OK until you drove around a corner. But the car was still perfectly driveable, and we even tried it out on the dyno.

So that is why I asked the questions. My experiences have not been "DSC kicking in", but rather the DSC lights coming on to indicate an error condition.

Does that help to explain? Yes - One would think the results would be the same, but like I said, I had no DSC interfering with my driving like the others report.

Cheers,
Hymee.

I love my PS2's. :angel:

I love my RE 040's.... :p:

I love my RE 040's.... :p:

'specially when you get them for less than Nankangs huh 'Mez? ;) :D:

the staggered theory assumes the nankangs have grip :PThey had enough grip to do a 1:16 at Wakefield Park. Make of that what you will. I'm no pro either.

you also had a supercharger didn't you?

Yes, but that didn't give me any extra grip.

but a heap more speed on the straights?

I don't know. I was reaching 160km/h by the end of the straight. From what I heard guys like Choppy were getting the same speed NA. The SC was far from its final tune.

I'm not trying to defend the Nankangs and say that they are the best tyres on the market. After all, you have to get what you pay for to some extent. But just because they are cheap does not automatically make them shit. If it weren't for this thread I would not have a bad thing to say about them. I'm happy with 90% of the performance for 50% of the price.

As for grip, I just checked wifies Nankangs, and the traction rating was "A" whereas the Yoko's are "AA". But on the flip side, the Nankangs are a "240" wear rating, and the Yoko's are "180".



FYI, there's not much difference between "A" and "AA"



From the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) labeling system:

Straight-a-head wet braking traction has been represented by a grade of A, B, or C with A being the highest. In 1997 a new top rating of "AA" has been introduced to indicate even greater wet braking traction. However, due to its newness, this grade will probably be applied initially to new tire lines as they are introduced and later to existing lines which excel in wet braking, but had been limited to the previous top grade of "A". Traction grades do not indicate wet cornering ability.

Be more specific? Which Yoko has AA?

I don't know. I was reaching 160km/h by the end of the straight.

Its not the speed, but the power laid down by the SC that is important. If it handled that without consantly sliding or spinning then they did a great job.

Andrew

They had enough grip to do a 1:16 at Wakefield Park. Make of that what you will. I'm no pro either.

Well said!!!

An IIRC, it was your very first time on a track, yeah?

Cheers,
Hymee.

Yes, but that didn't give me any extra grip.

ROFLMAO !!!!! :score:

Said even better again!!!

All hail Wildcard :worship: :bowdown:

Cheers,
Hymee.

Be more specific? Which Yoko has AA?

Specifically: the 4 shitbox ones I recently replaced with Nankangs :rock:

Sometimes I crack myself up...

Cheers,
Hymee.

Edit: OK, OK!! The Yokohama AVS102's (http://www.yokohama.com.au/ourtyres/tyre.aspx?tyreid=59) had "AA" for traction molded into the sidewalls:

http://www.yokohama.com.au/media/b_avsv102.335.jpg

Specifically: the 4 shitbox ones I recently replaced with Nankangs :rock:

Sometimes I crack myself up...

Cheers,
Hymee.

Go to bed, you idiot!!

Bugger, you quoted me before I edited it :(

That better not be a personal attack!!!

Its not the speed, but the power laid down by the SC that is important. If it handled that without consantly sliding or spinning then they did a great job.

Andrew

I think this is the best indication.

if wildcard couldn't top the NA speed with a SC fitted there is something wrong. he has more power, but similar terminal speed; seems to say he could hold less speed through the corners. dare I say not enough grip :)

the nankings are probably great value, I'd probably buy a set myself if I didn't get burnt so bad on my last Cheepie's (that weren't that cheep :mad:) I'll swear I'll never by another falken tyre, I've driven on lots of budget tyres over the years but never have I experienced the underperformance of falken ziex!

then again; on the track these ziex's could keep up with the WRX's and S15. I didn't spin out once, so by everyones reasoning they must have grip! :rock:

I think I'll try some toyo t1-r's next so I know what a good tyre is to compare the rest to.

if wildcard couldn't top the NA speed with a SC fitted there is something wrong. he has more power, but similar terminal speed; seems to say he could hold less speed through the corners. dare I say not enough grip :)

Yes but you're not comparing apples with apples. This was Wildcard's first time on the track. Corner speed for a beginner is a lot more than just tyre purchase (as I know only too well :o: ) and Choppy was acknowledged by his instructor, Rod ((the fastest at the Nats in an NA car) to be a very quick and talented driver.

My first time there in an NA RX8 I could only manage to get into the high 19's. 3 secs a lap quicker is an awful lot on a short circuit like Wakefield when comparing two beginners.

As for terminal speed on the straight, I also saw 160 (once) on my second time there (the Nats) when I finally managed to get good power down coming off the tricky turn 10 - :SHOCKED: hoo boy that made turn 1 an, ahem, interesting exercise. Most guys seemed to be more in the high 140's, low 150's for top speed.

Forget the S/C for the moment. I don't reckon tyres with crap grip would allow any beginner to do 1.16 at Wakefield, so Wildcard's point holds good IMHO.

But I still love my PS2's. :angel:

Tyre discussions tend to become a bit religious. In terms of data, the best I have seen is the work MACCAA and cronullarx8 have done testing various combos at Wakefield (and as well as tyre brand, MACCAA check tyre temps and various pressure settings)

That work has shown the OEM tyres are consistently better (ie faster lap time) than a range of other road tyres. This is also supported by the fact that the two fastest known RX-8 laps at Wakefield (Rick Bates in testing the 8 for the Motor PCOTY in 2003 -- a 1:12:xx; and David Wall in the Rotor Master s/c SP-RX8 at the Nats -- 1:13:02) were on OEM tyres.

Anecdotally, on the track I can attest to the lower grip of the replacement Yoko ES100 245/40's I fitted as replacements, and MACCAA was also disappointed with the Toyo T1-R's he fitted. Both are fine on the road, though.

If I was getting another set of tyres (and I am due soon) I'd be looking at either the 040's in a more commonly available 235/40 size. The alternatives might be the Goodyear EAGLE F1 GS-D3 or the Fulda Exeleros that labrat has fitted. Price would be an important factor for me :o:

If you want fast tyres for track

Go semi slicks

Stop wasting time on road tyres - get something quiet

If you want fast tyres for track

Go semi slicks

Stop wasting time on road tyres - get something quiet

:bowdown: Well said.

Good point...but....for various reasons as I'm sure you'll appreciate, many of us aren't prepared to shell out for a second set of wheels and tyres, so people have to compromise based on their individual needs. This is just a discussion which reflects that. :Peace:

Tell you what, didn't think we'd manage 150+ posts about Nankangs! :Eyecrazy: :mdrmed:

Tell you what, didn't think we'd manage 150+ posts about Nankangs! :Eyecrazy: :mdrmed:

well I reckon my stubborn, argumentativeness needs some of the credit in achieving this figure :)

now back to my pointless point :boring:

Yes but you're not comparing apples with apples. This was Wildcard's first time on the track. Corner speed for a beginner is a lot more than just tyre purchase (as I know only too well :o: ) and Choppy was acknowledged by his instructor, Rod ((the fastest at the Nats in an NA car) to be a very quick and talented driver.

My first time there in an NA RX8 I could only manage to get into the high 19's. 3 secs a lap quicker is an awful lot on a short circuit like Wakefield when comparing two beginners.

As for terminal speed on the straight, I also saw 160 (once) on my second time there (the Nats) when I finally managed to get good power down coming off the tricky turn 10 - :SHOCKED: hoo boy that made turn 1 an, ahem, interesting exercise. Most guys seemed to be more in the high 140's, low 150's for top speed.

Forget the S/C for the moment. I don't reckon tyres with crap grip would allow any beginner to do 1.16 at Wakefield, so Wildcard's point holds good IMHO.


but with the S/C you can go slower around the corners and make up for it on the straights. To attain the same terminal speed with more power the car had to start accelerating later or start accelerating from a lower speed. If not there is something seriously wrong with that S/C.

OK i know you have all been sitting on the edge of your seats waiting for this post

Have decided to risk it Nankangs are now on the front as well and everything is now fine. Handling is good, stearing feel if anything is better with slightly wider tyre and now have 4 new tyres for less than the price of two Bridgestones. Yougotta be happy with that.

Oh...Nankangs...that's right...that's the topic ;)

Hope all goes well -- keep us advised :)

well I reckon my stubborn, argumentativeness needs some of the credit in achieving this figure :)

Agreed! :p: ;)



but with the S/C you can go slower around the corners and make up for it on the straights. To attain the same terminal speed with more power the car had to start accelerating later or start accelerating from a lower speed.

This is the point I was making. Beginners usually carry less corner speed and don't get on the gas quite as early.

And there's not much in the way of straights at Wakefield to make up for your slower corner speed. This is why beginners driving a car with the SAME power get caught by more experienced drivers.

Hey - I think we're in agreement about this! :smiley309

Without giving too much away, I would also add that at the time, the biggest gain in power & torque from the SC was below 6000rpm. Above that, the gains over stock were less significant (something that Hymee's engine dyno work will be addressing soon). We were also running a self imposed 8K redline for safety.

Think about what rpm band you drive in around a track and you actually make a correct observation about the SC. Between 5-8000rpm (where I was driving), it wasn't giving me as much of an advantage over stock as you might think. Very nice to drive in traffic and from a standing start, but not a massive increase in whp at the rpm used on the track.

Do they make semi-slick Nankangs? ;-)

Do they make semi-slick Nankangs? ;-)


Please do not ask too much from the Taiwanese :hahano: :mdrmed: :lol: Although I don't mind a $200 semi

Do they make semi-slick Nankangs? ;-)

Yes they do...although I think you and I would call them bald. :lol:

I don't know why, apart from class rules, that if you were going to have a 2nd set of wheels and tyres, why you wouldn't just go for slicks. That is what I did on the SS. What a ride! 5 seconds a lap quicker than the stock (Bridgestone) street tyres.

what were the Sslicks like in the wet? I have heard everything from that SS are a death trap to working well in the wet.

Somehow, I didn't venture into driving a $50k 300kW car around on a wet track. Dunno why. If it was wet, street wheels would have gone back on.

Cheers,
Hymee.

wuss. :D

OK i know you have all been sitting on the edge of your seats waiting for this post

Have decided to risk it Nankangs are now on the front as well and everything is now fine. Handling is good, stearing feel if anything is better with slightly wider tyre and now have 4 new tyres for less than the price of two Bridgestones. Yougotta be happy with that.
Now thats good to hear. Thanks for the update.

Still would be nice to know if it was the width or hieght that was causing the problem ....anyone willing to test :mdrmed: