So tonight at the seven club meet, sitting to my left at dinner is Speed-ER doc, and across from me is rotarygod. To my right is Brillo. Brillo is a cool guy but he is not as out spoken as the three of us are on this board.

So sitting here at this table are three of the most out outspoken conservatives on this board and now we are communicating in real life. It is interesting what topics of conversation come up while we are chatting about things. Yes, we have talked about things of interest, and yes we have shared our views on different subjects at hand.

How does this make all of ya'll feel knowing that this occurred tonight? Be honest now.

We are not plotting strategy........yet......

Amazing how the on-line bravado and staunch opins gets closeted when face to face and agree to disagree, eh? ;)
Did you guys have a blast or fight over the tab? No pics? :D

who drank the most?

I just wonder how long it will take for this thread to get closed!

... It is interesting what topics of conversation come up while we are chatting about things. Yes, we have talked about things of interest, and yes we have shared our views on different subjects at hand.

How does this make all of ya'll feel knowing that this occurred tonight? Be honest now.
:D Honestly? I suspect the "things of interest" revolved around the Thong Thursdays thread, and your "views on different subjects at hand" involved critiqueing the bodies of any unsuspecting women in the room.

In short, the flaming liberal contingent of RX-8Club.com ain't losing any sleep over your confab. I hope y'all had a good time! ;)

Haha cool! thats awesome, ive hung out with a few forum members around here, but none are as popular as doc and the rest of the guys.

So, tell me, did my name come up at all? :D :p

Who are you? ;)

In short, the flaming liberal contingent of RX-8Club.com ain't losing any sleep over your confab.
We aren't losing any sleep over y'all (this is Texas btw!) either. After all, OUR candidate won AGAIN! ;)

It was a great meeting but no, nothing earth-shattering was discussed, and the alcohol consumption was negligible. As usual, Aratinga is right on the mark with her knowledge of men and our behavior. :D

There was no one to disagree with at that table, Toadman. If we'd drank as much as you and I did that night, who knows what might have gone down though. :o Since then, I've adopted a two drink limit when driving, and fortunately, it only took a lecture by an officer to make me understand the ramifications of excess.

Quote of the night (Jason or RG, I can't remember): "I don't think of myself as conservative....I think of myself as realistic." LMFAO.

I've been shortchanged on sleep lately, so I was a bit of a dullard. Sorry, guys, I'm usually more talkative.

I'm still kicking around whether to go to Chicago or not.

Awww man... I always miss out on the good stuff out here... :(

Your thread title says it all. Congratulations. Between the three of you, you managed to cobble together a "mind." Keep working on that.

What's somewhat disturbing about the conservative movement in the US (as opposed to conservatives in other countries) is that American conservatives don't seem to care much about balancing budgets. Also I don't want politicians talk about religion. I want them to leave that business to the churches.
I can comfortably support conservatives in Switzerland but I couldn't in the US mainly for these 2 reasons.

Religion is important to the vast majority of Americans, and the expression of religious views is by no means limited to conservatives in this country.

In fact, Clinton (and Kerry) made more church speeches and references to religion than Bush does.

Well I guess I'm glad that CEOs haven't started to talk about religion yet. I want them to run a company as well as I expect politicians to run a country. I don't really want to know about anyones believes. And what I find is most disturbing if politicians start to base their actions on their religious believes. I want them to base their actions on rational arguments.

Time to break this one out again, I guess. :D

Time to break this one out again, I guess. :D

thats pretty funny

Wow, I guess I did drink too much at the bar last night, LMAO.

Doc, you missed out on the good action though, that happend at the bar afterwords. Got to love the Ginger Man, bestbeer selection in town.

LMAO

Wow, I guess I did drink too much at the bar last night, LMAO.

Doc, you missed out on the good action though, that happend at the bar afterwords. Got to love the Ginger Man, bestbeer selection in town.

LMAO
I enjoyed round one anyway. Next time I'll try to get some sleep first before going out. I was asleep by 10. :eek:

The Gingerman is great, I'll bet there were some hot college cuties there.

We'll do it again soon.

I find Doc's views not so conservative!

I find Doc's views not so conservative!Most people would agree with you. To the socialists here, even a centrist is looked upon the same as a religious zealot, our views vilified and ridiculed.

Unfortunately, their outspokenness is not in proportion to their rationality, nor to their numbers.

I agree guy321, the views of the people involved in last night’s dinner are not that ultra conservative at all. Most of the frequently out spoken posters on this forum make us look conservative compared to their liberal, socialist, and almost communist agendas.

It’s all about perspective. The three of us look like conservatives compared to some, but in fact, we are "realistic"

I’m glad you guys had a good time, it would be cool if new friendships could come from this website.

Your thread title says it all. Congratulations. Between the three of you, you managed to cobble together a "mind." Keep working on that.

I did not care for that statement…but what’s that saying…grain of salt…

And what I find is most disturbing if politicians start to base their actions on their religious believes.

This is what I ask regarding that statement…

Do you believe or have a faith? If you do but you do not follow what is taught by your faith or it does not impact how you think, live your life, etc…then I’m not too sure about the usefulness or truthfulness of your faith.

Don’t take this the wrong way…I’m just stating that a faith that does not impact your thinking, actions or the way you live is useless.

IF I was in politics (remember my mind has been shaped from this world, my parents, those around me, but mostly MY FAITH) how could I vote or defend laws that contradicted my faith? To explain further my faith teaches it’s wrong to commit suicide so if a law comes around that wants to legalize suicide as a method to relieve pain, relieve responsibility, etc etc….I would not support it….I CAN NOT, because of what I know my faith teaches.

So, don’t expect people to vote or politicians to propose laws, defend laws, etc etc etc without considering their faith. How could we say we believe or have faith, when we act contrary to what it teaches? It’s better simply to say…”I have no faith and I base my choices on my own logic or the presented logic to do this or that”

This is not a flame, I just don’t’ understand how you can ask someone who has faith in something to act or live by things that are against his/her faith. That’s what we call a hypocrite!

Note: Everyone messes up and/or acts hypocritical at times (REMEMBER THAT), but based on the Christian faith…that’s why our savior came to begin with…to save the lost. I’m not saying this to start going down the religious path/discussion/etc. I’m saying this since I’m trying my best to explain the eventual questions, accusations of hypocrisy, or misunderstandings. Basically, I’m just trying to explain WHY asking a person that has a faith to act & think outside their faith (if they are in politics) is ridiculous.

This is what I ask regarding that statement…
Do you believe or have a faith? If you do but you do not follow what is taught by your faith or it does not impact how you think, live your life, etc…then I’m not too sure about the usefulness or truthfulness of your faith.
Don’t take this the wrong way…I’m just stating that a faith that does not impact your thinking, actions or the way you live is useless.
It doesn't matter what I believe or what faith I have or a politician has. 99% of the decisions a politician has to make are very practical and have nothing to do with any moral believes. I also want a politician to act according to rational arguments and not what some old paper might have said several thousand years ago. I would want the leaders of a country to be critical and learn from mistakes and have them to always strive for the optimal solution.
Besides Moral values do not need to be faith based. Most of us have moral values no matter whether we have a religion or not.
You won't find many Swiss politicians talk about religion and still Switzerland is quite sophisticated and has hardly any wild hordes running around and eating up people. You also won't find any Swiss voters that base their vote on whether that politician is relgious or not. They will base their vote whether they can agree with that politicians ideas or not.
Frankly I don't care what a politician does in his or her private life, but I care very much what he or she does with my country. Since that is what affects my life and the people surrounding me.

Im surprised that y'all even said a word to each other......considering all topics have already been covered on this site....man can always critique the ladies when all else fails....;)

"F" the Swiss. Who cares what happens in Switzerland!! When was the last time that anything from that society effected world ideas and world relations? The Swiss hide behind their cloche of neutrality yet they have the nerve and arrogance to criticize those who are different from themselves.

"F" the Swiss. Who cares what happens in Switzerland!! When was the last time that anything from that society effected world ideas and world relations? The Swiss hide behind their cloche of neutrality yet they have the nerve and arrogance to criticize those who are different from themselves.
What about the Red Cross? Also Swiss pay way more foreign aid per capita then Americans do.

Besides I did not critize the US and was not talking about any foreign implications, I was just talking about voting for a politician.
And I was taking Switzerland as an example because that's the country I know.

Btw did you know that Chevrolet is a Swiss town? :D

Last but not least: Hopefully I have the right to critize the US, I pay double the amount of taxes here than I paid in Switzerland and can't even vote.

Btw did you know that Chevrolet is a Swiss town? :D

Stop missleading board members with your (Gerbils?) Pro-Swiss propganda. Chevrolet is a family name. The car company was namesd after Louis Chevrolet, not a Swiss town. ;) :D

It doesn't matter what I believe or what faith I have or a politician has. 99% of the decisions a politician has to make are very practical and have nothing to do with any moral believes.

Well, I don’t think it’s 99%…any data that indicates that? I don’t think it’s 99%….???

I also want a politician to act according to rational arguments and not what some old paper might have said several thousand years ago

What’s rational? Debatable to say the least…

So, you don’t want politicians to be spiritual people…is really what you are saying. Because again, if you are a spiritual person (or have a faith) then those beliefs are going to effect you’re thought, actions, etc. No matter where you are in life.

Oh and I guess spiritual people or those who have a faith are irrational or make irrational decisions? What you don’t understand is that those that have a faith believe that our faith teaches what is rational, logical, and right. Those who base their life, decisions, actions, etc on something less than that are prone to falling into fallacy and error no matter how many degrees they flaunt around or how logical they say they are.

That’s what someone with faith believes (normally). We base everything on the acknowledgement of a higher power who is EVER SO much more logical, rational, intelligent, loving, caring, and knows all. So, that’s why we base everything on our faith. Just explaining why a so-called “old paper” is still more relevant today than anything uttered by man since our conception.(Note: Remember, while written by men (and I can only speak for my faith) we believe that it's written by GOD/Holy Spirit through men) Again…I’m stressing why it’s important and why we can not remove it from parts of our lives, while so many really hope we would.

I would want the leaders of a country to be critical and learn from mistakes and have them to always strive for the optimal solution.

ME TOO!!!! But…there is that pesky flawed and imperfect human mind that get’s in the way.

Besides Moral values do not need to be faith based. Most of us have moral values no matter whether we have a religion or not.

Where do you get it from? This goes back to truth…are their versions of it, is truth relevant, etc etc. But, I’ll leave it at that before we go off topic too much more.

You won't find many Swiss politicians talk about religion and still Switzerland is quite sophisticated and has hardly any wild hordes running around and eating up people. You also won't find any Swiss voters that base their vote on whether that politician is religious or not. They will base their vote whether they can agree with that politicians ideas or not.

I don’t know enough about the Swiss government or people so say much. I wonder what the Swiss religious background is and what kind of faith they believe in? I’ll have to go check it out…(Christian I think...but I'm not 100% sure)

Frankly I don't care what a politician does in his or her private life, but I care very much what he or she does with my country. Since that is what affects my life and the people surrounding me.

AMEN!!!!!! Finally, someone that agrees as to why Christians made their presence felt with the past election. No, Bush is not Mr. Christ or Mr. Perfect Christian…no, not in anyway. But, he tends to defend what our faith teaches so we voted for him. We care what happens to our nation too…so we vote for (as EVERYONE else does) that person that will defend or approves our stand on issues.

Because…”that is what affects my life and the people surrounding me”…

AMEN!!!!

I’m not trying to fight with you are anything, please don’t take it like that. I just don’t agree with your points…

if a politician makes an economic or fiscal decision based on christ moses buddha mohammed or any faith at all they should be impeached on general principle.

if a politician makes an economic or fiscal decision based on christ moses buddha mohammed or any faith at all they should be impeached on general principle.

Damn our forefathers and there will to have freedom of religion! :rolleyes:

if a politician makes an economic or fiscal decision based on christ moses buddha mohammed or any faith at all they should be impeached on general principle.

LOL, you do know that the Bible teaches fiscal responsiblity right?

if a politician makes an economic or fiscal decision based on christ moses buddha mohammed or any faith at all they should be impeached on general principle.

So what you are saying is that you would have impeached EVERY signer of the declaration of independence, EVERYONE associated with the U.S. Constitution, and EVERY pre-civil war American political figure? All of them made decisions based on religious principles and then structured those principles into the founding of a nation called the United States of America.

*** MOD EDIT: Your "joke" was tasteless and removed DARKMAZ. See forum rule #3. ***

Action of Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America

WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life........"

Can you find God in this? I can.

What's up with people from Canada? I have no issues with them but it seems on this website there is always someone from Canada wanting to argue with me???

At least khtm and I can be friendly...

Oh and I guess spiritual people or those who have a faith are irrational or make irrational decisions? What you don’t understand is that those that have a faith believe that our faith teaches what is rational, logical, and right. I don't say that faith would guide one to make irrational decisions per se, but if your bound to a faith you're narrowing your options and if you're narrowing your options you might miss the optimal solution.

So, that’s why we base everything on our faith. Just explaining why a so-called “old paper” is still more relevant today than anything uttered by man since our conception. Talking about paper: So when you have to decide what toilet paper to buy, do you think about what Jesus might have considered?

Creator (capitalized) means God?

Action of Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America

WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life........"

Can you find God in this? I can.

Action of Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776

"The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America

WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life........"

Can you find God in this? I can.Delicious. :D

Sorry dude. That's a dumb statement.

IF religion is a major factor in a politician's private life then it effects his sense of morality, decision making ability, and the way he interacts with others. All qualities that politicians/govt officials need. ANY decision they make in life will be based on these principals. It cannot be seperated. *eh, i JUST read wannahave's post that ferras was replying to. LOL didn't mean to repeat. I just had the same thought (i still didn't read the rest of that post tho, too long) ;)*

Furthermore, seperation of church and state is NOT about people in Govt preferring, or participating in one religion over the other. It is about the government MANDATING a church and making different religous beliefs CRIMINAL offenses punishable by torture and/or death. Having GOD in the pledge, or on the dollar bill is NOT the highway to the President ordering the death of all Muslims any more than killing a fly means that you will kill your own parents.

if a politician makes an economic or fiscal decision based on christ moses buddha mohammed or any faith at all they should be impeached on general principle.

The Swiss weren't nuetral. There has been evidence gathered after WWII that the Swiss government and banking systems were NAZI sympathizers and protected MUCH Nazi wealth. But I agree, F the Swiss! I have 2 next to me as co-workers.


"F" the Swiss. Who cares what happens in Switzerland!! When was the last time that anything from that society effected world ideas and world relations? The Swiss hide behind their cloche of neutrality yet they have the nerve and arrogance to criticize those who are different from themselves.

the declaration of independence
a. is not law
b. has nothing to do with economic and fiscal decision making

im not saying all decision making shouldnt be faith based, all im saying is that having god or faith guide your every decision makes for bad policy when it comes to very concrete business type things. Social issues, absolutely should be relegated to a code of morality, and codes of morality often stem from religion. but ever since bush has said things about god guiding his decisions and god wanting him to be president i worried about the actual executive money decisions in our government, and the economic track record speaks for itself (although there is no causal link...just an incidental link that may or may not be causal).

but hey thanks for twisting my words and assuming i mean that religion can have nothing whatsoever to do with any decision, i did not say that.

Sorry dude. That's a dumb statement.

IF religion is a major factor in a politician's private life then it effects his sense of morality, decision making ability, and the way he interacts with others. All qualities that politicians/govt officials need. ANY decision they make in life will be based on these principals. It cannot be seperated.

Furthermore, seperation of church and state is NOT about people in Govt preferring, or participating in one religion over the other. It is about the government MANDATING a church and making different religous beliefs CRIMINAL offenses punishable by torture and/or death. Having GOD in the pledge, or on the dollar bill is NOT the highway to the President ordering the death of all Muslims any more than killing a fly means that you will kill your own parents.

very good point, the constitution says nothing about excluding religion in every day life, it says that we cannot infringe on someones ability to practice religion...which is why the ten commandments on an official building and a pledge of allegiance debaucles are insane.

Seperation of church and state is NOT about people in Govt preferring, or participating in one religion over the other. It is about the government MANDATING a church and making different religous beliefs CRIMINAL offenses punishable by torture and/or death.

Amen. (sorry...)

Furthermore, the removal of religious symbolism by the federal government is very much a MANDATING of the absence of religion, which is the establishment of atheism.

I think it's unconstitutional for our government to force the removal of religious symbols.

Agreed.


very good point, the constitution says nothing about excluding religion in every day life, it says that we cannot infringe on someones ability to practice religion...which is why the ten commandments on an official building and a pledge of allegiance debaucles are insane.

I don't say that faith would guide one to make irrational decisions per se, but if your bound to a faith you're narrowing your options and if you're narrowing your options you might miss the optimal solution.

Narrowing our options (per our faith) to the right choices. Think about it, if we believe that our faith teaches from the all mighty and only GOD who created everything, anything different or that disagrees with GOD’s teachings are useless and WRONG. It’s simple really, if we believe that there is a GOD who created everything…I think it’s OK asking him what he (or reading his word) thinks about things.

Furthermore, I know I’m very willing to listen to what other people think. It’s better to listen first…and speak later, that’s the wise decision. I’m always willing to listen so I don’t think it’s narrowed my mind or thoughts at all, it’s actually taught me to be humble, meek, and love everyone as I love myself. Note: I’m still and will always be working on improving myself by GOD’s teachings so don’t think I consider myself perfect in ANY way.

Talking about paper: So when you have to decide what toilet paper to buy, do you think about what Jesus might have considered?

Now you are just being silly….but I do care about decisions that will effect my standing with GOD or go against what he teaches us.

i still didn't read the rest of that post tho, too long) *

Sorry...I try to say the least I can...but it's hard sometimes.

The Swiss weren't nuetral. There has been evidence gathered after WWII that the Swiss government and banking systems were NAZI sympathizers and protected MUCH Nazi wealth. But I agree, F the Swiss! I have 2 next to me as co-workers.
Obviously Switzerland wasn't annexed by the Nazis as wimpy Austria was, so apparently they weren't that fond of the Nazis. Besides Switzerland also saved a lot of refugees life (not all but many). (I actually have an Austrian grandmother that was a refugee that fled to Switzerland during WWII.)

Besides you can't judge a country based on what its corporations do business with. One example: Swiss pharmaceutical companies give way more money to the Republicans than the Democrats eventhough the Republicans are currently not very popular in Europe.

the declaration of independence
a. is not law
b. has nothing to do with economic and fiscal decision making

It was the declaration of war that formed the seeds of our ENTIRE country. It had everything to do with the economy and the fiscal decision making of it's time as well as ALL AMERICAN IDEALS, DECISIONS, AND POLICIES TO DATE. What do you think a total war like the revolutionary war does to a countries economy and fiscal policy? Do you have a clue about anything that you propose?

If we would have lost the revolutionary war, there would have been no need to write anything else that came afterwards because we would have still been British, and eventually Canadian or Spanish or French.

But that is speculation for another thread.
;)

religion is a waste of time.....man wrote the bible and I don't see why I have to obide by something that a man like you and me created.....religion has a lot to do with why this world is as f@#%@d up as it is....imo

I am simply amazed that this thread has changed this much in one night. I am also amazed that it is still open!

religion is a waste of time.....man wrote the bible and I don't see why I have to obide by something that a man like you and me created.....religion has a lot to do with why this world is as f@#%@d up as it is....imo

With comments like the above...I'm surprised it's not closed either. I was just having a nice conversation with the swiss person when that person made this into ALOT more than it was. What do I expect...he speaks up rarely...but it seems I'm greatful for that.

religion is a waste of time.....man wrote the bible and I don't see why I have to obide by something that a man like you and me created.....religion has a lot to do with why this world is as f@#%@d up as it is....imo

I think that you have every right to believe that, but you have no right to force that belief on me because you feel compelled to believe the way you do.

The minority does not have the right to hold the beliefs of the majority or the embodiments of those beliefs in society hostage.

but I do care about decisions that will effect my standing with GOD or go against what he teaches us.

Answer me this... who's law is higher: god's law or the constitution?

Edit: P.S. I wish someone would ask Scalia this.

It’s simple really, if we believe that there is a GOD who created everything…I think it’s OK asking him what he (or reading his word) thinks about things. But what if he or the word doesn't has an answer or is misinterpreted or what if he is currently doing something else something with more importance? Or can we assume that we are more important than the rest of the Universe?
Shouldn't we at least as sort of a back up use our brains instead and try to find the optimal solution without any outside help?

The toilet paper thing is not that silly. A lot in our life are toilet paper decisions. Look at that whole RX-8 forum: Does this have more importance than toilet paper?

Hey guys cool down and lets go back to the conservatives.

Ok.. so laws, ordinances (such as speedlimits), contracts, etc are all written by man also. I guess you feel you do not need to ABIDE by those either?

The bible REALLY contains nothing more than a set of ideals on how MOST of society believes people should act, regardless of religon. Well rounded, socially acceptable people have very similar ideals to "Christians", "Jewish", "muslims" etc.. simply because much of it is common sense.

SOME people need guidlines, some people don't. It may be a waste of time for you.. but not for everyone. (BTW, I am not of any religious affiliation.

religion is a waste of time.....man wrote the bible and I don't see why I have to obide by something that a man like you and me created.....religion has a lot to do with why this world is as f@#%@d up as it is....imo

Ok, enough. Thread closed.