Simple question to be answered. The other thread got locked.

If I had magnesium rims, would they have shattered instead of braking off in big pieces?

http://intinsifi.com/images/jpg/rx8/crash/rx8.jpg

http://intinsifi.com/images/jpg/rx8/crash/3rx8.jpg

http://intinsifi.com/images/jpg/rx8/crash/2rx8.jpg

Ouch!
That hurts!
How 'bout a little more info...
Did you hit a curb while drifting???

good god!

same thing would have happened- end result busted rim.

I don't think any type of rim would have faired too well.


Think of it this way.....


You hit a curb lateraly with some good force. If you had a stronger wheel, more of the lateral energy would have gone right into your suspension. More costly and harder to repair than a shattered alloy wheel. I would rather a shattered rim.

Looks like you might need a brake rotor too. :o

Ouch!
That hurts!
How 'bout a little more info...
Did you hit a curb while drifting???

Nope. Coming home from a study group at Barnes and Nobles. I turned the DSC off because I heard that it saved gas. I had never had the DSC intervene with my driving before, so I really didn't know what it did. The dealer didn't explain to me. I just read about it. I hadn't been driving stick for long and I was awful at shifting. I was shifting midway through a curved road and I dropped the clutch a bit. I also, looked down at my tachometer and started to wander into the left lane just a tad. Instead of continuing over, I jerked the wheel a little bit too much. The back end proceeded to step about a bit. I paniced and jerk the car the other way. I fishtailed 4 or 5 times before I hit the curb. I never braked because I didn't want to slide. I didn't know how to correct my car so I lost it. I ended up on the median and the wheel came off. Some people were in their back yard across the ditch and saw what happened. I told them I was alright, but it was too late. They called the firetruck and police for me. The cop came and wrote up the accident. He didn't give me a ticket. He called a tow truck for me (I didn't know Road Side assistance wouldn't tow wrecked cars). Tow truck came and I had a friend take me to the dealer. Dealer said DSC wouldn't have saved me, but I know it would have. I had plenty of time to correct the cars motion, I just didn't have experience with a situation like that; therefore, I had an accident. There were no other cars around when it happened either. I am glad it happened though. I don't regret it at all. It opened up my eyes and helped me understand the physics of a car. It also kept me from doing stupid things down the road which I probably would have done if I wouldn't have had the accident.

pwned!!

...I was shifting midway through a curved road and I dropped the clutch a bit. I also, looked down at my tachometer and started to wander into the left lane just a tad. Instead of continuing over, I jerked the wheel a little bit too much. The back end proceeded to step about a bit. I paniced and jerk the car the other way. I fishtailed 4 or 5 times before I hit the curb. I never braked because I didn't want to slide. I didn't know how to correct my car so I lost it. I ended up on the median and the wheel came off. .... "I was shifting midway through a curved road and I dropped the clutch a bit..."

That was the first mistake. All the rest follows naturally.

Far from flaming you, I think you deserve an award for the most honest recounting of an accident from an inexperienced driver. Kudos. Now, leave your DSC on until you learn to control your car on the track. And slow down.

BTW, your overcorrection was the most common mistake among young drivers. You're fortunate you were in an RX-8 rather than an SUV. You'd probably have ended up hanging from your seatbelt (which I hope you were wearing.)

Again, happy to hear you're ok. It was a very cheap lesson in the long run.

same thing would have happened- end result busted rim.

Yup, except you'd be out a couple grand for a new magnesium replacement. :D

You're fortunate you were in an RX-8 rather than an SUV. You'd probably have ended up hanging from your seatbelt (which I hope you were wearing.)



I hate SUVs. I'd never get one for that reason alone. I like cars better. Especially the 8. We have the 5Star rollover rating! :D :D

Far from flaming you, I think you deserve an award for the most honest recounting of an accident from an inexperienced driver.

I agree completely man.

That sorta accident isn't all that uncommon. With rear wheeled vehicles, the dynamics are completely different than front wheel drive cars. It takes practice to control the ass end when it breaks loose. You should probably leave the DSC on like already mentioned, but I suggest you find a HUGE parking lot and set up some scenarios like what happened and learn to control it.

The same thing happened with my old VW GTi, except my back wheel bent...my front wheel was ruined, and then my axle snapped in half. So yea you got off pretty well, i learned my lesson as i hope you did too :) Hit the brakes next time.

this maybe a dumbfounded question..but what would have been the right correction to possibly avoid the accident?

It is unfortunate, but it is a perfect example of shift lock.

Damn it is an expensive spin, isn't it?

jsh1120 is right... kudos to you for looking at the situation objectively and positively (what matters here is no one got hurt). When faced with something like this, many drivers make excuses and are unable to accept responsibility.

Flame!!!

I never braked because I didn't want to slide.One tip: With DSC off (in the regular "off" mode, not the seven second "total off") the ABS still works. ABS will avoid sliding as far as possible while braking and you also can steer normally. The most dangerous moment with ABS is when you actually release the brakes. Besides that, the RX-8 has a superior braking behaviour, I trust the car in this aspect like no car before.

The best way to find out about the effects is a security training where you can train the same situations with DSC on and off. This was about the first thing I did when I got my RX-8. My primary intention back then was to find out about the behaviour of the security systems of the car and it really paid off (and btw, since that training I left the DSC always on).

One tip: With DSC off (in the regular "off" mode, not the seven second "total off") the ABS still works. ABS will avoid sliding as far as possible while braking and you also can stir normally. The most dangerous moment with ABS is when you actually release the brakes. Besides that, the RX-8 has a superior braking behaviour, I trust the car in this aspect like no car before.

The best way to find out about the effects is a security training where you can train the same situations with DSC on and off. This was about the first thing I did when I got my RX-8. My primary intention back then was to find out about the behaviour of the security systems of the car and it really paid off (and btw, since that training I left the DSC always on).

I leave my on too. I did a post about where I accidentally did a 180 (There were no cars or people... I live in LOUISIANA!) trying to learn how to correct after I had the accident. I had my accident in August, the first month I had the car, first RWD, first Manual, and now I am fine. No accidents since then. I can tell I am a much better drive after the wreck. Especially when it comes to shifting. I used to jerk all the time. Now I am smooth and people don't notice I am shifting. I used to spin the tires all the time, but now I can barely get them to spin even if I want to because I am used to driving well with stick. I can't heel toe or anything, and I'm not perfect, but I can get around town well and enjoy the car. :D

I let my friend with a 3rd Gen RX-7 drive my car. He had only been in once before and the person didn't go fast. I let him wind it our through first and second. Then he slowed down to a stop. HE LOVED our BRAKES. :D Now he wants one. :p

I promised a forum admin that I would not flame our man Jaisin any more. Jaisin, my apologies. I will not flame you in a house, I will not flame you with a mouse - oh wait, that's "Green Eggs and Ham" ...

So therefore, I'm not flaming you.

I will point out that damage and incidents like this are often the direct result of a lack of experience that is common with youthful drivers driving cars that are way beyond their capability to control them. Not saying this one was, although our man Jaisin IS a youthful driver.

The BEST investment you can possibly make in yourself and your car is NOT magneisum wheels, or a forced induction system or the latest geegaw gimcrakery thingamabobber, but instead a course in high performance driving. Whether it is the hundred-dollar pre-season autocross clinic sponsored by your local SCCA chapter, or it's a $3500 three-day at Bob Bondurant or Skip Barber, either way, you'll come away with a healthy respect for your car, for the laws of physics, and a full understanding of what you can and cannot get away with with your particular car.

Because clearly, young Jaisin here got a mighty surprise when he dumped his clutch with too many revs in mid corner on what was likely a damp or slick road with the stability control turned off (DSC).

There's no substitute for knowledge and training, folks.

Invest in yourself before you mod your car. You will be glad you did.

See, wasn't I nice?

The BEST investment you can possibly make in yourself and your car is NOT magneisum wheels, or a forced induction system or the latest geegaw gimcrakery thingamabobber, but instead a course in high performance driving. Whether it is the hundred-dollar pre-season autocross clinic sponsored by your local SCCA chapter, or it's a $3500 three-day at Bob Bondurant or Skip Barber, either way, you'll come away with a healthy respect for your car, for the laws of physics, and a full understanding of what you can and cannot get away with with your particular car.


excellent advice for anyone.

I promised a forum admin that I would not flame our man Jaisin any more. Jaisin, my apologies. I will not flame you in a house, I will not flame you with a mouse - oh wait, that's "Green Eggs and Ham" ...

So therefore, I'm not flaming you.

I will point out that damage and incidents like this are often the direct result of a lack of experience that is common with youthful drivers driving cars that are way beyond their capability to control them. Not saying this one was, although our man Jaisin IS a youthful driver.

The BEST investment you can possibly make in yourself and your car is NOT magneisum wheels, or a forced induction system or the latest geegaw gimcrakery thingamabobber, but instead a course in high performance driving. Whether it is the hundred-dollar pre-season autocross clinic sponsored by your local SCCA chapter, or it's a $3500 three-day at Bob Bondurant or Skip Barber, either way, you'll come away with a healthy respect for your car, for the laws of physics, and a full understanding of what you can and cannot get away with with your particular car.

Because clearly, young Jaisin here got a mighty surprise when he dumped his clutch with too many revs in mid corner on what was likely a damp or slick road with the stability control turned off (DSC).

There's no substitute for knowledge and training, folks.

Invest in yourself before you mod your car. You will be glad you did.

See, wasn't I nice?

Yes, You were nice. Now I am starting to like you. :D I want to goto Skip Barber over the summer. My dad said its fine. I just have to get out there. :D Stew, I was looking at the Skip Barber site a while back and I wasn't sure which class to take. Can you point me in the right direction? I am kinda confused on which one would be the best for me. :confused:

Just ask them which is the best for you, or otherwise start with an easy one.

From a look at their page the two day driving school looks OK. You should at least learn things like emergency braking, emergency lane change, controlling understeer and oversteer situations. Oversteer is the real fun part of every training btw (especially in a RWD vehicle) and deals with what probably happened to you in your accident.

Skip Barber announces that don't get to drive in your own car though, which is not too great because that's the you want to learn as much as possible about.

Edit: You may want to check out the Porsche Driving School (http://www3.porsche.com/english/usa/news/drivingschool/default.htm). I know that at least in Germany you can drive your own car there. Must be fun with an RX-8 between the Porsches (I'm thinking about doing that one myself this summer).

At Skip Barber, the appropriate courses for you would be:

New Driver
One Day Driver School or Two Day Driver school.

Not a flame: You don't know enough about driving to take the racing school. Yet. Baby steps my man, Baby Steps.

But, the course I'd recommend for you over everything else is this:

Bob Bondurant's Advanced Teen-aged Driving: http://www.bondurant.com/courses/Teendriv.html

This is a course that's totally made just for you. You will learn so much that could save your ass, every single day.

As somone who has grown up with the way we do things in the UK, I have a great deal of difficaulty in understanding the fact that there doesn't seem to be a distinction between driving a manual or automatic gearbox... here, you take your lessons and test in a manual... if you cant pass, you can take the test in an auto, but then your licence says that you are not permitted to drive a manual... Some of the cause of incidents like this must be the lack of training with a manual gearbox prior to getting a licence??

Anyway, You stated that you didn't want to brake to avoid sliding... but strangely, if you had the DSC in the temporary "standby" mode that you get by just pressing the button breifly... if you had braked hard enough to trigger the ABS, the the DSC would automatically have re-activated.

As somone who has grown up with the way we do things in the UK, I have a great deal of difficaulty in understanding the fact that there doesn't seem to be a distinction between driving a manual or automatic gearbox... here, you take your lessons and test in a manual... if you cant pass, you can take the test in an auto, but then your licence says that you are not permitted to drive a manual... Some of the cause of incidents like this must be the lack of training with a manual gearbox prior to getting a licence??

Anyway, You stated that you didn't want to brake to avoid sliding... but strangely, if you had the DSC in the temporary "standby" mode that you get by just pressing the button breifly... if you had braked hard enough to trigger the ABS, the the DSC would automatically have re-activated.

I did the 7 second thing. :(

Waiiiit a minute--- you mean if you hold the DSC button for 7 seconds it turns off all electronic aids including ABS??

Truth be told I'm afraid to turn the DSC off. Even with my experience in SB's racing series, sometimes I will see the dsc light flashing when I'm driving in a straight line and don't feel the car unsettle or anything. People complain about the power but it still has a good amount that needs to be respected :cool: .

As for which course to take; I'm not too farmiliar with Skip Barber's Driving Schools, but I wouldn't discount the racing schools because of a lack of knowledge. It really is amazing how much they teach you in a quick 3 days.

Even still, I guess the driving schools were designed exactly for hot shots like you :p .

Either way,always say- the biggest performance mod is the driver.

I agree with you - I have not turned off the DSC yet and I don't plan to!

As somone who has grown up with the way we do things in the UK, I have a great deal of difficaulty in understanding the fact that there doesn't seem to be a distinction between driving a manual or automatic gearbox... here, you take your lessons and test in a manual... if you cant pass, you can take the test in an auto, but then your licence says that you are not permitted to drive a manual...
Just another example of those wimpy Brits who don't acknowledge the right of every yahoo to either carry or inhabit a deadly weapon as a right of citizenship. :)

Waiiiit a minute--- you mean if you hold the DSC button for 7 seconds it turns off all electronic aids including ABS??

ABS is not disabled when you do this. A number of people have said that if you just do the quick button press, triggering ABS will reactivate everything. I don't know if that's true, though.

You should get Adamantium rims(if adamantium even exists)...they'd be indestructible...you could drive right into the curb and you wouldn't even scratch the rims...you'd take out the curb...or diamond...that would be even better

http://vmanx.mypicgallery.com/Rx8lue/dscf0007_large.jpg

Hey its been awhile since this happend is the 8 fixed yet and if so. What all got thrashed? I can not beleive that sort on impact happened with out bending up an axel or a suspention arm or something. What was the total parts list for the fix?

Glad your ok and looking at a driving course, leave the DSC on, keep the belt buckled and keep her between the curbs. :)

Hey its been awhile since this happend is the 8 fixed yet and if so. What all got thrashed? I can not beleive that sort on impact happened with out bending up an axel or a suspention arm or something. What was the total parts list for the fix?

Glad your ok and looking at a driving course, leave the DSC on, keep the belt buckled and keep her between the curbs. :)

$18,945, Insurance paid for it. Basically, $6000 in labor and $12000 in parts. $4000 in labor and $10000 in parts without tax. :mad:

And you're still driving this car why? Are your parents on drugs?

$19 grand!? Man, back when I was 16 or 17, my parents almost took my car away for the $200 mystery dent (I think it was a football) that appeared in the fender after it was parked in my HS parking lot for the day...

Just another example of those wimpy Brits who don't acknowledge the right of every yahoo to either carry or inhabit a deadly weapon as a right of citizenship. :)

In this instance, just a case of proving that you know which end is dangerous...

Waiiiit a minute--- you mean if you hold the DSC button for 7 seconds it turns off all electronic aids including ABS??



No, but if you hold it for 7 seconds, it disables the DSC and traction control until you switch the engine off... it won't come back on if you trigger the ABS (like it would otherwise)... nor can you turn it back on with the switch.

If you do this, instead of the "DSC off" light coming on, the traction symbol flashes continuously...

I've never done this on a road(although I have on a track), but I turn the DSC off (to standby mode) from time to time... typically to make a point of getting the back out of letting the wheels spin a little on a quick getaway... I wouldn't recommend it if you're not relatively experienced with RWD, but the car doesn't do anything unexpected... panicing and overcorrecting is just about the worst thing that could happen as this poor guy discovered... if you carry it through smoothly or back off the power really gently...... it's a blast... Take care!

Almost $19000 in damage? And your still going to keep the car? there had to be major suspention and drive line problems for that kind of bill, had tohave some sort of structual damage as well. That cars never going to be the same after that, its imposible to get every thing put back "right". To bad it wasn't totaled.

You should get Adamantium rims(if adamantium even exists)...they'd be indestructible...you could drive right into the curb and you wouldn't even scratch the rims...you'd take out the curb...or diamond...that would be even better

Diamond is hard but shatters. Rearden metal is what you want!

Sorry to hear about your incident. You might want to look at taking a one day car control clinic/safety school to learn how to avoid/correct for that sort of situation. During the school, you'll be pushing your car beyond the limits of tire adhesion on wet pavement in a safe environment. If you are a quick study, the corrective techniques required will become second nature and automatic.

Besides learning car control those classes are lots of fun. Where else would an instructor be pleased if you spin your car or kick out the tail end? Those classes are also good autocross practice if you ever want to do one.



Nope. Coming home from a study group at Barnes and Nobles. I turned the DSC off because I heard that it saved gas. I had never had the DSC intervene with my driving before, so I really didn't know what it did. The dealer didn't explain to me. I just read about it. I hadn't been driving stick for long and I was awful at shifting. I was shifting midway through a curved road and I dropped the clutch a bit. I also, looked down at my tachometer and started to wander into the left lane just a tad. Instead of continuing over, I jerked the wheel a little bit too much. The back end proceeded to step about a bit. I paniced and jerk the car the other way. I fishtailed 4 or 5 times before I hit the curb. I never braked because I didn't want to slide. I didn't know how to correct my car so I lost it. I ended up on the median and the wheel came off. Some people were in their back yard across the ditch and saw what happened. I told them I was alright, but it was too late. They called the firetruck and police for me. The cop came and wrote up the accident. He didn't give me a ticket. He called a tow truck for me (I didn't know Road Side assistance wouldn't tow wrecked cars). Tow truck came and I had a friend take me to the dealer. Dealer said DSC wouldn't have saved me, but I know it would have. I had plenty of time to correct the cars motion, I just didn't have experience with a situation like that; therefore, I had an accident. There were no other cars around when it happened either. I am glad it happened though. I don't regret it at all. It opened up my eyes and helped me understand the physics of a car. It also kept me from doing stupid things down the road which I probably would have done if I wouldn't have had the accident.

I don't know how you have got this far without getting flamed! Any post that says "NO FLAMING" really says "FLAME ME PLEASE".

Sorry to hear about your incident. I am interested in how it caused that much damage and how fast you were going. For you to slide 5 times in that car you had to be hauling ass.

1 more note... in most cases the clutch is your friend. Get off the brake, off the gas, and hit the clutch. That generally lets the tires regroup.

I think most people just emptied all the fuel in their flamethrowers from the last thread he started about the same incident...

Your aluminum rims had a better chance of surviving the impact than Magnesium would. Smae result with the same impact. The benefit to mag is greater strength (allowing lower weight), at the cost of less flexibility so there is a greater chance of explosion or destruction of the rim on impact. Sorry about your troubles, and I hope that there wasn't too much other damage.

Your aluminum rims had a better chance of surviving the impact than Magnesium would. Smae result with the same impact. The benefit to mag is greater strength (allowing lower weight), at the cost of less flexibility so there is a greater chance of explosion or destruction of the rim on impact. Sorry about your troubles, and I hope that there wasn't too much other damage.

You would be amazed at how well they fixed it. Its perfect! No problems! No one even knows it has been in a wreck. The majority of the cost was the side airbags which deployed.

The reason I got to keep it is because I paid the deductable.

Oh, well then. That makes ALL the difference.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative9.jpg