I have had someone say that they lost control of there 8 without an warrning, natrually we thought he was crazy...

Now I am not so sure.

I had one get away from me yesterday.

I have been driving them hard for a 1 1/2 and never had one snap around so violently as I did yesterday resulting in wrecking the car.

I am not sure if this had anything to do with it but the battery dead, the DCS, TSC lights were all on.

I started out and took the car up to 9k + the beeper is buzzing and shifted into second and the car snapped around before I could react to anything.

The Conditions

Cold 35 F
Dry

It's not like I don't have experience.

36 years driving
27 years without an acciedent
15 years without a ticket
10 years SCCA
20 Porsche 911 racing
1.5 years RX-8

Never experience anything like it in an 8 before just wonder about others, since I had someone else reporting a similar event that I thought was BS.

Anything the DCS TCS cound have been that cause trouble?

I have had someone say that they lost control of there 8 without an warrning, natrually we thought he was crazy... Never experience anything like it in an 8 before just wonder about others, since I had someone else reporting a similar event that I thought was BS…Anything the DCS TCS cound have been that cause trouble?What kind of damage did you have? I didn’t see any mention of a curve, which sounds a little strange that the car would snap around so abruptly in a straight. Did you maybe hit the side of the road at the same time you popped the clutch? Were you looking down at the gauges when it happened? I know you have plenty of racing experience but I’ve popped the clutch in mine on dry pavement and short of a slightly extended bark I never got anything near a reaction like that.

However, in my first turn with my DSC turned off I trashed mine. My problem was simply a lack of experience. Up until about a week ago I was of the opinion that I hit the brakes in the turn however after thinking it over many times, I’m confident my problem was, after driving 6 months with the DSC turned on, I never had a problem accelerating out of a turn but when I turned off the DSC and went into a turn, hit the gas in the apex, the ass end did a 180 and I crammed into a electrical utility box. After 3 months I still don’t have her back. I’ve been told by very knowledgeable people on this forum that they didn’t think the DSC had anything to do with it but no one will ever convince me otherwise.

I had an experiance in December (RE40 tires). I hit some slush on the road going straight & level and the car jumped sideways into the next lane, due to the DSC. Like you I have had plenty of experience:

30+ yrs of Driving
10 yrs SCCA Autocross
7 yrs SCCA Road Racing
6 mo. with the RX8 (at that time)

IMHO, I think the DSC & TSC grab a bit to hard/sudden. Especially on slick surfaces.

Gosh sorry to hear that, I don't have DSC (I wish I did) so I'll learn to drive her little by little.

I hope someone can give us more information...with your driving experiance it's strange you don't understand what happend. Like Silver said...were you in a curve, straight, etc?

What tires are on your 8 ??

About 4K damage Couple wheels, suspension, rocker panel dents.

I was just entering a slight curve, but the car was more or less going in a stright line when it snapped around.

I have driven both with and without DSC, and there is a noticable difference, but still I haven't experienced anything quite as violent as this.

lets see that is about the fourth person now that has mentioned a similar thing.

Maybe it was the DSC doing something funny. I don't know for sure and that is the scary part.

I am a big enough person to say, hey, It just got away from me because I drove it too hard, but I have driven the car a lot harder without any issues.

The Potenza's

OK, I have to ask this... what color is it? If it is Silver then this could explain everything! :D
Now you get to go to my pole and vote on "Color of your wrecked 8?
http://64.9.213.132/rx8club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46877

Actually it was sunlight silver LOL

I see that you are new to the forum, it's kind of a standing joke to ask what color, I think it started when someone put together that there was a curse on the Sunlight Silver. So far, it seems to be holding true! I sympathize with you and hope the damage is as minimal as you said. I found when the shop gets into taking the parts off they discover more as it goes. I wish you the best of luck.

I see that you are new to the forum, it's kind of a standing joke to ask what color, I think it started when someone put together that there was a curse on the Sunlight Silver. So far, it seems to be holding true! I sympathize with you and hope the damage is as minimal as you said. I found when the shop gets into taking the parts off they discover more as it goes. I wish you the best of luck.


No need to check...I am the one who placed the curse on the silver cars :eek: ..actually, I just noticed it and kept asking about it.


I think the key thing in the original post that is significant is the temp outside 35d.

WE all know that the performance tires don't work worth sh*t in the snow but we need to also remember that they don't work well in the colder temperatures. I'm sure that your car lost traction because of this. There are many references to this in some of the snow tire debates.


Sorry to hear about your crash. If more people would do their research ahead of time on this forum we would have less people buying silver RX8's. :D

I learned what the DSC did when I turned it off and hit that curb.

Yeah, I am very familar with the factory tires. I was stuck :confused: on 1/4 inch of snow on a flat road.

I have thought about the temp and expected it to be loose, but I thrashed on it a few times in first to test the waters before I let it rip and nothing. Not even a wiggle.

I know better that balls to the wall on Potenza's before they warm up, but this was like being on super ice or something.

My god man, I haven't even every had a 930 snap around that fast before and that is very notorious for spinning out. It's several times more wicked that an 8.

I have replayed and replayed everything in my head and convienced -- almost seems like something broke on the car, which I highly doubt happened.

So far that's the only thing that has made sense: it was possessed by demons. :rolleyes:

I haven't been scared of the car until now.

Cold Potenzas = no traction - I got mine completely sideways on the OEM Potenzas on a 35 degree day and dry pavement - and this was WITH THE DSC ON! It was chattering madly but I was so far "out of the envelope" that it couldn't get me back. Basically got on it hard going around a corner and WHEE!

Luckily, large, smooth intersection, late at night, no traffic around, and thankfully no cops or else for sure they would have put me through a DUI test (although I was on nothing but a caffiene jag at that point ...).

Sorry it happened.

I took my Potenzas off and am running Pirelli PZero Nero M+S tires now - terrific in cold weather and dry/warm conditions as well.

Stew

Ive noticed that i cant drive on anythings resembling snow with the dcs on it totally ruins momentem so be carefull.

Ive noticed that i cant drive on anythings resembling snow with the dcs on it totally ruins momentem so be carefull.



really......Being in Canada, I drive on snow all the time. I find the DSC a bit intrusive at times on hills and sometimes getting started but for general driving I think it works quite well.

No need to check...I am the one who placed the curse on the silver cars :eek: ..actually, I just noticed it and kept asking about it.Rotten, the only curse you started is me hounding you everytime you try to take credit for the curse.. :cool: The curse was started by me, I am a Voodoo doctor after all.. :rolleyes:

And to prove the point here is the very 1st post regarding the sunlight silver curse posted on 11-21-2003:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=15070

You didn't join the board until 08-21-2004....

Makmov,
Sorry to hear your misforturne. The only times I've seen the 8 step out is under heavy downshifting while close to the rev limiter. If got a couple videos of Hymee that show the car jerk to the right when that happens...

It's the Potenzas... they're hard as rocks in the cold. Something obviously aggravated the condition, but the cold potenzas can let go quickly and without warning.

Makmov, you might be right. I did autoX some time ago and used the DSC on and off. I almost lost control without it, car end just snapped in a turn. Also, when DSC kicks in, it is strong - just what someone else mentioned, I hit once a puddle of water on the highway at 70 mph with the left side of the car and I landed 2-3 feet to the right instantly. So it could be you had something similar happening. The info you don't detail is what was the status of the DSC and TC after the battery was disconnected. Did you reset them by turning the steering wheel all the way both ways? If not, the computer does not know where the center is and when either DSC or TC kicks in, you might be going in the wrong direction (wherever the computer thinks the straight line is...). Just an idea, no experience to back-up the last point.
Sorry for your ride!

TIRES

anything under 40F and you are asking for it...good luck with the repairs...thank goodness you weren't hurt badly

At that temp even though it was dry it may have been a patch of black ice.

Wow, sounds spooky. My little hit & run accident doesn't seem so bad after reading this, sorry for the mishap, glad you are ok.

As the others have mentioned the stock tires are no good in the cold, the difference between sliding and gripping friction has caught me off guard a few times in cold dry roads. They seem to be good up to a point, then gone with minimal warning. I'm pretty sure the TCS and DSC could have been confused due to the dead battery, but the default mode if it senses any error should be completely off. I'm not sure if the DSC would run a self check and turn back on by it's self assuming it had an error at start up. The steering position sensor does need to be reset per the owners manual by turning lock to lock so it can find center, but you should have seen the blinking steering wheel light. I think that alone would have prevented engagement of DSC.

The other thing that is a very slight possibility is that something could have broke in the suspension prior to the crash causing you to loose control. Shifting can put some huge shock loads into the suspension. You said it was damaged after the crash, how sure are you? Crash impact damage almost always looks different than fatigue or other types of fracture. A metallurgist or experienced engineer might be able to tell if they could see the broken parts.

Maybe it's the missing hp all showing up at once?

I've driven my car almost exclusively in sub 30 degree weather (quite a bit in sub zero weather even) since I got it in January of this year, and I know the RE040s are crummy in the cold.

I've noticed quite a bit that the LSD "locks up" easily if I down shift coming up to a stop with any snow or water in the cold conditions. I'm wondering if that might be the case with you. If I down shift agressively at all it'll skid slightly. From what you've told us, you shifted at a very high RPM and it could almost be like downshifting if you went into second abruptly, that, combined with the cold weather and the tires propensity to lose traction at cold temps could have broke traction and sent you spinning.

It still doesn't explain how fast it happened, but it could be a contributing factor.