Well I guess I will be the one to be negative about the new Greddy turbo. Here is why, the turbo was designed for the Japanese spec rx8. Greddy decided to bring it over and test it for the U.S. spec rx8 and put it on the market and well all jump and get all excited and go out and get it for any where from $3000-3500. It’s not CARB approved. The few that have it installed already and put out the video so well get even more excited, some may blow motors and be stuck and Greddy will not cover them so they are out an engine. Then Greddy says ok well this is not god so they fix whatever they fix the whole system gets CARB approved and we all say shit I should have waited. Even worse HKS, Blitz and everyone else and there mother comes out with a turbo or supercharge kit with in the next month or so. We were all worried that Greddy was not going to make the kit. DON’T get me wrong I am not bashing Greddy ( I will defiantly get the kit) I have used there products before and they are great company my 95 rx7 was sick. I just want to know why we are all rushing to get the first batch of kits that come out and not wait until Greddy fixes all the problems that they did find on the first batch…..

some people thrive on being an early adopter...they're actually a marketing market. and if no one rushed out to be the first ones, people like me and you wouldn't have that knowledge when we decide to buy our kits :D

greddy also spent considerble time developing this kit for a US spec 8 (on shawrf1's car), and if any problems arise they're due to the general nature of FI and the 8's computer system...I doubt they'll be flaws in workmanship, as you mentioned greddy is a very reputable company. props to greddy for having the balls to be the first, im sure every other kit will be a close knock off.

Why did some of us rush to get the 04 RX-8s instead of wait for 05s? Greddy has done their homework, besides... it is caveat emptor.

I too am a bit reluctant to get the Greddy kit since there is bound to be teething problems with the initial batch of kits.

Three things gotta happen before I would even think of getting a turbo kit:

1) Wait a while and let more kits come to market, while bugs get sorted out, weak points in the drivetrain are fixed (transmission?), etc;

2) Someone gets a proper replacement ECU nailed down, not the emanage which is (apparently) not the ideal solution

3) I get a raise :(

Yeah, like what Ranger said.

Many of us pre-ordered the RX8 even before they hit the showroon. With a company like Greddy in the aftermarket business I'm sure they have adaquate R&D put to their turbo kit. However, I'm a DIY guy, so I'm not going to buy the kit. But I don't mind to be the first to own one.

Beside, some one have to be the first, otherwise you, me and many others would not know the true potential. If no one would buy the first batch, what would that imply in the market business if you own the company?

ok i c what u guys r saying i just wanted to see if i was right and thanks for not bashing me about it.. i know i spoke to soon. its 0300 hours and in the am i no i am gona hear it from someone.

Is there a difference in the JDM RX8 engine and the US Spec engine ? If they have throughly tested the turbo kit on the JDM RX8, what would be the difference between the 2 other than RHD vs. LHD ?

I´m not the least negative about the GReddy turbo - However, since my 8 is about 4 month old I must admit that I´m having second thoughts due to the warranty. I badly want this turbo but not for any price. I still want to feel confident that my engine wont blow after 200 miles and then I stand there with no warranty. So turbo? Definately! ...but I´ll wait until spring or early summer to see what other kits come to the market and see what problems others may experience with the different setups.

Sure, it feels great to be one of the first to install a turbo or whatever. But this is for those who either has too much $$$ or their warranty has expired. Just wish I was one of them with too much $$$. :-)

Greddy has always produced great turbo kits with alot of research in them. My guess is that HKS and Blitz will come out with a kit, but its going to be overpriced like the rest of their stuff. Greddy is also not going to change the kit overtime to meet the needs of the US buyer. The US market is 2% of their total sales and they dont really care. If there is a any change at all it will be to the programming of the Emanage or the upping the size of the turbo.

2) Someone gets a proper replacement ECU nailed down, not the emanage which is (apparently) not the ideal solution
GReddy did a great job with the e-manage and the RX-8 Turbo kit. It is totally plug and play and has a ton of expansion options. It can even control an additional 2 injectors if you ever want to upgrade the turbo and need more fuel. The wiring harness that comes with the e-manage is a work of art. My only issue is they didn't give a password for the air/fuel maps so you can modify it, but that will be worked out shortly.

the emanages before this kit came out weren't the best solution, but now greddy has made proprietary hardware to allow the emanage to work with the PCM.

this is only my theory. The rotory engine was doing very well untim MAZDA made the RX-7's turbo charged, then you started to see everyone start to blow their engines and giving the rotary engine a bad name. So, to put a Turbo Charger in an '8 weather or not it is a factory or aftermarket is a bad idea. This kind of engine can not handel the pressure of a turbo and i think if people start to put chargers in their 8', we are going to start to see an out break of what happened with the RX-7's But this is just my theory

this is only my theory. The rotory engine was doing very well untim MAZDA made the RX-7's turbo charged, then you started to see everyone start to blow their engines and giving the rotary engine a bad name. So, to put a Turbo Charger in an '8 weather or not it is a factory or aftermarket is a bad idea. This kind of engine can not handel the pressure of a turbo and i think if people start to put chargers in their 8', we are going to start to see an out break of what happened with the RX-7's But this is just my theory


Yeah, but you have to realize, it's a very small percentage that had really bad issues. The RX-7, particularly the 3rd gen, had major cooling issues that contributed greatly to the problems. Also, those engines that failed were from over boosting and experimentation. Boosting any engine will decrease it's life span, but proper tuning and testing helps prevent any mishaps from occuring. We can speculate on the Renesis and turbo's/nitrous all we like, but until we have a large majority people with those systems installed we will not be able to properly tell if it's the equipment or application of the equipment that causes the damage. Right now there are only a handfull of people running their 8's with turbo or nitrous. So far those of us that have those kits in are having no trouble. Again, only time will tell. It's hard to speculate when such a small percentage of us are running these mods. Once the pool of people increases, we'll have better figures to work with.

...The rotory engine was doing very well untim MAZDA made the RX-7's turbo charged, then you started to see everyone start to blow their engines and giving the rotary engine a bad name...

What about this news clip:
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/381

I know this is only a rumor, but it is a Turbo Charged RX8 from Mazda. I think the main topic is keeping the boost under control. Allot of RX7 owners went crazy with huge turbos and high boost.

Car and Driver: Electric TURBO on RX-8 in late 2005

Submitted by Dan Mazzella on Friday, June 4, 2004 - 12:37pm
Car and Driver Magazine is reporting Mazda will unveil the Electric-motor-assisted turbocharger at the October 2005 Tokyo Auto Show. We give this rumor a good, about 70%, chance of being true.

This concept is the one that was first used on the Hydrogen RX-8 concept at the 2003 Tokyo Autoshow. The electric-motor-assist turbocharger is used to maximize the effectiveness of forced induction throughout the RPM range. At low engine speeds, beginning at approximately 1000 rpm, an electric motor operates to assist the turbocharger and increase induction efficiency. At high rpm, the turbocharger is driven in a traditional fashion, by the flow of exhaust gas alone.

I don't recall major engine or turbo related reliability issues with the T2. The problem with the FD was not that they turbocharged it, its that they used an extremely complex (and very cool, when it worked) sequential system but they didn't make all the support systems (vaccum control systems, cooling systems, etc) reliable enough to keep everything else running properly.

That said, if a bunch of people start adding aftermarket turbos, sure there are going to be some blown engines. That's true with ANY car.

jds

The main problem with the RX-7 is people try to run to much boost without proper tuning or supporting modifications. I have a constant stream of RX-7's in my shop that need new motors.
I think the RX-8 can be a reliable turbo car if the boost is kept low. Issues are going to occur when people raise the boost without a good tune and porting an engine is not going to help reliability on a turbo car.

Jason
www.rx8store.com

What Icant believe is that this Greddy turbo kit wasfirst displayed on a 4spd automatic in Japan (on the Re Amemiya website) and they donteven plan on making thekit for the automatic here.

ok ok i guess tax time i will go for it
willl that wire harness from rp RX-8 ECU Harness Adaptor work so the rwires dont have to be cut...
philodox since you have it installed... a list not including the kit of what we need to get this working properly ex boost guage, timer, etc.. can the innercooler be upgraded cause it looks kinda small...

willl that wire harness from rp RX-8 ECU Harness Adaptor work so the rwires dont have to be cut... .
No, there is no cutting required, it's truely plug and play.


philodox since you have it installed... a list not including the kit of what we need to get this working properly ex boost guage, timer, etc.. can the innercooler be upgraded cause it looks kinda small...
I would get a Blow Off Valve and a boost gauge at a minimum to full functionality. I went with a Defi BF Series boost gauge in white since it matches the stock gauge cluster perfectly. Of course the intercooler can be upgraded. However, GReddy has built this particular intercooler that comes with the kit specifically for the boost levels that the kit provides, if you get a bigger intercooler it would really only give you gains in the cosmetic appearance department. The stock bumper does hide much of the intercooler, but if you look at the pictures of the GReddy kit on another thread where the MS bumper is seen, you can get a very good look at the intercooler.

I think roughly 5 pounds of boost with 60 extra HP would be perfect, I woulnd't want any more. Any idiot can go fast in a straight line, to make a car truely fast make it fast around the corners with some coilovers, strut bars, cross memebers and every other little chassis stiffening.

I just want a little extra umph, nothing major, a well rounded performance car not a drag car. If this kit proves reliable at 5 ounds of boost then maybe 6 or 7 won't hurt, but nothing more then that.

May need bigger injectors to play it safe and a better radiator, again to play it safe as the lower the engine temps the longer it will last, same with tranny so a new K&N oil filter may be in order...

I think roughly 5 pounds of boost with 60 extra HP would be perfect, I woulnd't want any more. Any idiot can go fast in a straight line, to make a car truely fast make it fast around the corners with some coilovers, strut bars, cross memebers and every other little chassis stiffening.

I just want a little extra umph, nothing major, a well rounded performance car not a drag car. If this kit proves reliable at 5 ounds of boost then maybe 6 or 7 won't hurt, but nothing more then that.

May need bigger injectors to play it safe and a better radiator, again to play it safe as the lower the engine temps the longer it will last, same with tranny so a new K&N oil filter may be in order...

My thoughts exactly. I am very happy with 7psi. The stock injectors are good to about 9psi or so before they run out of fuel delivery potential. I autocross, so I don't really want too much power, or it'll start to get very difficult to keep the rear under control on the corners.

About the cooling situation you mention, I've heard some people complain about the RX-8 actually overcooling and the engine becoming too cold in certain areas of the world. I think Mazda really took to heart the overheating issues with the old RX-7's and did it right with the RX-8.

In regards to cooling, there have been issues with the car pulling timing when coolant temps get too high.

from an old thread regarging this:

It was pretty neat watching Jim [Merder at Racing Beat] play with the ecu bench. He'd hold it at one rpm and then turn a knob that told the ecu that the coolant temperature was lower. You could watch the timing retard itself. The timing was affected by alot of things. He stated the car reduces power in the event of overheat. If the water temp gets too high, the ecu cuts power. It will eventually cut power to the point where you can just keep the car running. You know when this car overheats.

It seems to me that the GReddy kit and the RX-8 are perfect matches. Both were designed and built with future upgrades possible for those of us interested in more power/better performance. The notion of tubo'd/supered RX-8's was first mentioned by the Mazda engineers themselves in all of the pre-pub so it seems to me we performance enthusiasts are doing what Mazda imagined we might.

As far as durability is concerned, I think my own exploits have proven that the Renesis is more than up to the task of additional h.p. and my pursuit continues. I'll keep y'all posted on the next level when I get there.

Charles

this is only my theory. The rotory engine was doing very well untim MAZDA made the RX-7's turbo charged, then you started to see everyone start to blow their engines and giving the rotary engine a bad name. So, to put a Turbo Charger in an '8 weather or not it is a factory or aftermarket is a bad idea. This kind of engine can not handel the pressure of a turbo and i think if people start to put chargers in their 8', we are going to start to see an out break of what happened with the RX-7's But this is just my theory

the problem with the turbo rx-7's wasn't the engine. like my friend just recently learned, the turbo themselves and the manifold were subgrade. the thid gen had many problems including a maze of vacuum lines that would dry rot and blow off, an exhaust manifold that is too thin and is prone to cracking and an insufficient oil cooling system just to name a few. my friend is replacing the stock twins with a single 80mm garret turbo. he is expecting around 700 whp or so with 20+ lbs of boost and a ported 13b.

as far as the renesis goes. one thing that we tend to over look is the compression ratio. the greddy kit only boosts 5 or 6 psi. if you want real power out of the turbo you need to put lower compression rotors in the 13b. otherwise you cannot boost the renesis above 6psi without blowing the apex seals.

I think roughly 5 pounds of boost with 60 extra HP would be perfect, I woulnd't want any more. Any idiot can go fast in a straight line, to make a car truely fast make it fast around the corners with some coilovers, strut bars, cross memebers and every other little chassis stiffening.

I just want a little extra umph, nothing major, a well rounded performance car not a drag car. If this kit proves reliable at 5 ounds of boost then maybe 6 or 7 won't hurt, but nothing more then that.



+1. Exactly. :)

The matter of compression ratios and boost has been discussed in great detail on this forum. We have had all kinds of conversation on the difference between static vs. dynamic compression as well as the importance of tuning the engine/ECU combo. We'll know pretty soon what the limits of the Renesis are, for sure.

Charles

hopefully the limits of horse power involve 4 digits

And all to the left of the decimal!! Cool.

Charles

Is there a difference in the JDM RX8 engine and the US Spec engine ? If they have throughly tested the turbo kit on the JDM RX8, what would be the difference between the 2 other than RHD vs. LHD ?

not a damn thing really. There are probably some slight ECU differences, but that's it other than the RHD/LHD thing (which supposedly affected the exhaust manifold). In terms of power, etc. I have said it on this forum for about a year now... there is no difference. JDM cars that Greddy, Blitz, Phoenix Power, etc. have dynoed on a chassis dyno have landed at about 180whp. JDM gasoline has the same octane levels as standard USDM gasoline... it's just calculated differently (do a search on octane... RON vs (RON + PON)/2 if I remember right). As far as emissions goes... remember that "Kyoto Protocol" thing that the US still refuses to sign? Well... where is Kyoto? So yes... Japan has strict emissions and strict inspections every 2 years.

The matter of compression ratios and boost has been discussed in great detail on this forum. We have had all kinds of conversation on the difference between static vs. dynamic compression as well as the importance of tuning the engine/ECU combo. We'll know pretty soon what the limits of the Renesis are, for sure.

Charles

Thank you for posting that before I had to. RG has posted on this in his usual detail MANY times. Run a search...

What Icant believe is that this Greddy turbo kit wasfirst displayed on a 4spd automatic in Japan (on the Re Amemiya website) and they donteven plan on making thekit for the automatic here.


no it wasn't. It was first displayed during shows last year on Greddy's test car. That was soon followed by articles on the "joint" development project with RE Amemiya where they applied the Greddy kit to an auto8. Whether or not RE Amemiya decided to try to go with this for sale or not, I have not heard anything about... however concerns about the tranny (torque converter in particular) being able to handle the power were mentioned.

As far as an FI next gen RX-7 goes... the latest article I skimmed at the convenience store here said that the engine hasn't been decided. There is a fight between Ford and mazda... Ford wants FI (Turbo or Supercharger) and mazda wants larger displacement. The drawings looked interesting... the front was like a cross between the MS front and the RB front. The side is like a 2 door 8 and the rear is pretty 8-like except that it had a single exhaust coming out of the rear rotor crest. But these are just drawings... when we see spy shots of test mules is when I'd start to make bets on specifics...

There is a fight between Ford and mazda... Ford wants FI (Turbo or Supercharger) and mazda wants larger displacement.

Sounds like its time for a compromise. Mazda do what Ford wants larger displacement and a turbo!

That's a very strange thing to hear, that Mazda actually wants larger displacement. Perhaps they don't want another rat's nest 13B-REW nightmare. It's also strange that Ford wants a FI engine...makes me wonder what they have up their sleeves for Ford's own lineup.

no it wasn't. It was first displayed during shows last year on Greddy's test car. That was soon followed by articles on the "joint" development project with RE Amemiya where they applied the Greddy kit to an auto8. Whether or not RE Amemiya decided to try to go with this for sale or not, I have not heard anything about... however concerns about the tranny (torque converter in particular) being able to handle the power were mentioned.

I wasunder the impression that Re Amemiya hadtheir turbo Rx8 since 2003 b/c thats when that sectionof their web site was created.

Regardless I dontlike what Im hearing about the tranny and torque converter. If I hadto upgrade allof that shit ON TOP of buying a turbo kit and install - $$$$$$$$ !!!! - I guess itd probably be more cost effective to sell my automatic for a stick and then put a turbo kit onto that.

Thats reallynot the route I had in mind but timewill tell

That's a very strange thing to hear, that Mazda actually wants larger displacement. Perhaps they don't want another rat's nest 13B-REW nightmare. It's also strange that Ford wants a FI engine...makes me wonder what they have up their sleeves for Ford's own lineup.

Well, retooling cost for additional FI would be cheaper than increase displacement which might be the reason for Ford leaning towards FI, while Mazda doesn't even want the additional hassels of dealing with FI because of the additional insurance required, (better cooling etc) which are more likely to be skimped to cut costs.

Thanks,

I woulnd't go overboard with the cooling, just play it safe with a radiator. I was also going to mention the compression rating of the renesis but had to get off (which was why my post was cut short).