the engine in the 350z engine seems to favor a twin turbo setup, versus a single from what i've read. hate to go off topic can anyone clarify y?

RG, I'm a little disappointed with the volume of you post, need some more mass.
Maybe you can explain it better then my little lab experiments did. But I can't see how, that is as plain as I can show it. I think these are smart guys saying the same thing, no?

In the famous words of Paul Newman "what we have here is a failure to comunicate"

Damn it. When I post really long, people can't read the whole thing. When I try to keep it simple, I can't seem to convey everything in full detail. I just can't win! I need to think up a generic disclaimer for all of my posts explaining how certain details may be changed for examples sake or how some things are just to be assumed to be equal. Oh well.

Where the hell are you Fred, got a girl over there or something?

This thread jumped by 3 pages in as many hours. No girl over here. I wish! I was at a homebrewers meeting on the other side of planet Houston drinking some fine beer.

I've tried to explain the volume/airflow/pressure/efficiency topic over and over again apparently to no avail and I think I'm at the point where I'm done with it.

...Jeff & Jon; great job today. Thank you for your intial posts and responses. I'm hoping to look forward to some video files also.

...way cool,

-jcs-

as far as the z goes the turbonetics setup is a single and it netted 437 or so hp

No DSC. No limp mode.
The myth about dynoing the the RX-8 is busted.
Thank you i had said that abs light didn't do diddly back in july but no one listens.

Far as it putting 170whp stock on the dyno and in real-life conditions it's not right. If it was doing 170whp with the volume and speed of real air flowing into the intake in-addition to some other variables there's no way you would have stock "fully loaded 3180+lbs" RX-8's running 14.5 and lower, and i'll say this again its just a number, useful as a comparative tuning tool not tell you what the car is acutally making.

I updated my old RWHP post today with TC numbers:)

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=473167&postcount=317

Nice results guys!

Great numbers. By looking at your graph your A/F at peak power is perfect. There is no room for correction there. By smoothing the A/F you will smooth out the graph but its not going to change your peak power. For every pound of boost you will gain 10-15 RWHP, so its possilbe to hit 270 RWHP by upping the boost to 9lbs and tuning the A/F. I would not touch the timing unless you have an EGT gauge or you risk blowing the motor.

Jason


Thanks Jason, appreciate the information. The E-manage that comes with the GReddy kit doesn't ouch timing at all. It uses stock timing... That's definately something I am going to look into in the next few weeks. Just need this weather to break.. too much damn snow!!


**EDIT** Given that most cars have a 17% loss through the drivetrain (like Jeff Mentioned) I'm getting about 290 at the crank. **EDIT**

I understand that boost does not necessarily equate to HP..

I was trying to ask if you believe if there is a some max HP that the Renesis can provide. It seems easier for others engine to double their HP output with a turbo addon whereas the Renesis looks like its struggling to get more than half. In other words I guess the possible potential of the Renesis..

Now I dont even know if its struggling to meet less than half its normal HP, but it seems that way.

What are 350z owners getting by slapping on similar bolt ons? Other cars? Are they seeing 40-60hp gains, or are they seeing 100+ gains? I guess, again since I'm a turbonewb, what are average gains by bolt on turbos?

Just know that turbos are not created equal. You can not make a blanket statement like this. The Greddy turbo is on the small side for our motor which is good or bad depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

So you got 240.4rwhp with the turbo, a gain of 65.96rwhp coming from 7psi of boost.

Did you do any runs at 5psi (or whatever it is preset to)? I was wondering what the turbo kit hp gain was out of the box, without using the boost controller.

So you got 240.4rwhp with the turbo, a gain of 65.96rwhp coming from 7psi of boost.

Did you do any runs at 5psi (or whatever it is preset to)? I was wondering what the turbo kit hp gain was out of the box, without using the boost controller.


Apparently the car runs at 7psi until the higher RPM range then tapers off to 5psi. BUt I see 7psi all the way up to redline. Right now the boost controller is just limiting any boost spikes I may see. I have it set to exactly what psi I saw from the kit before the boost controller was a part of the equation. make sense?

...putting 170whp stock on the dyno and in real-life conditions it's not right. If it was doing 170whp with the volume and speed of real air flowing into the intake in-addition to some other variables there's no way you would have stock "fully loaded 3180+lbs" RX-8's running 14.5 and lower, and i'll say this again its just a number, useful as a comparative tuning tool not tell you what the car is acutally making.

I think Polak is right here...

Apparently the car runs at 7psi until the higher RPM range then tapers off to 5psi. BUt I see 7psi all the way up to redline. Right now the boost controller is just limiting any boost spikes I may see. I have it set to exactly what psi I saw from the kit before the boost controller was a part of the equation. make sense?


Got it.
You didn't increase the boost, so the turbo kit should give +65hp increase out-of-the-box.

why doesn't anyone ever dyno their car in 5th gear?

Its the 1:1 drive ratio which should have the lowest drivetrain losses in the tranny plus you have much less acceleration so there is less inertial losses.

why doesn't anyone ever dyno their car in 5th gear?

Its the 1:1 drive ratio which should have the lowest drivetrain losses in the tranny plus you have much less acceleration so there is less inertial losses.

because it's very stressfull on the engine and the higher the gear, the more prone to pre-ignition the car is while on a dyno.

Philodox your whp is around the same as a stock 350z. Luckilyyour car weighs almost 200lbs less so Im guessing your 0-60 isnow in the 5.2 - 5.5 second range and probably high 13s in the 1/4 mile. Notbad for a couple grand eh?

Philodox your whp is around the same as a stock 350z. Luckilyyour car weighs almost 200lbs less so Im guessing your 0-60 isnow in the 5.2 - 5.5 second range and probably high 13s in the 1/4 mile. Notbad for a couple grand eh?

Nope, not bad at all.. I'm quite happy with my investment.

because it's very stressfull on the engine and the higher the gear, the more prone to pre-ignition the car is while on a dyno.

how is that? the engine is still producing the same power, its only the rear wheels which are turning slower. The only downside is the dyno takes a bit longer to run (but also gives you better resolution, more power showing up, and more repeatable results) which shouldn't matter as long as your cooling system is up to power.

Peak HP was 225 HP. I don't have a torque figure for the above-referenced reasons.

Probably a lot more work than most would want to worry about, but why don't you just calculate the torque? horsepower=(torque*rpm/5252) or something like that. A few simple mathematical transformations and you could have the torque formula. If you have the underlying data points to the graphs it should be easy enough.

--Landon

how is that? the engine is still producing the same power, its only the rear wheels which are turning slower. The only downside is the dyno takes a bit longer to run (but also gives you better resolution, more power showing up, and more repeatable results) which shouldn't matter as long as your cooling system is up to power.

whoa.. hold your horses there Poncho :p I'm just stating what I was told the last time I went to the dyno. You must take into account that even the largest fan blowing air on the car is only equates to the same thing as going down the road at about 30mph, if that much at all.... so you're not getting the same cooling effects.

Probably a lot more work than most would want to worry about, but why don't you just calculate the torque? horsepower=(torque*rpm/5252) or something like that. A few simple mathematical transformations and you could have the torque formula. If you have the underlying data points to the graphs it should be easy enough.

--Landon

Nevermind that idiot's post a couple back... I guess he doesn't read the entire thread before he makes comments. :)

Did anyone get his IP address? Ban him for his stupid post when you get a minute, moderators. :) :rolleyes: :o

--Landon

one aspect I feel is important to address - most ppl here are taking his 'old' peak hp number, and subtracting from his 'current' peak hp number, and proclaiming the difference as the amount of power he gained. Unless we see over-lapping dyno plots, it's hard to make that call.

It could be the case he's gained MORE than the 6xhp ppl are suggesting, at different points along the powerband. As an example, on my last car I gained 7peak HP by switching to a test pipe from a cat. However, the car gained 15-25hp and equal amounts of torque from 3000-5000 rpms. I'm betting the power under the curve may have made HUGE gains. : )

Any ability to find a scanner, Philo?

:D

Grammar...

I agree with that entirely. Average under the curve is what matters, not peak.

I just looked at the old dyno sheet from my pre-turbo dyno runs. I would take a digi pic of it, but it's hard to tell the difference between the stock plots and the Canzoomer plots when it was installed on my 8. It's confusing me looking at it, so fudging a digi pic of it would be pointless.

However, I am eyeballing the plots and compating stock to turbo. With the turbo, I have approx 40hp more at 3000 RPM, 50hp more at 3500RPM compared to stock... then from 4000 RPM on up it's about 55-65hp more than stock.. So from what I see in the graphs, the extra HP comes really early.. around 3000RPM. That's when the turbo spools up which makes sense.

WOW, just watched live shots of your part of the world. 7F and falling. Man that'll make your intercooler work. Mighty thick air too. That thing should really run with chains on it. :D
Guess that's all a person can do is sit inside and look at old dyno sheets. :)
Damn I have to go out and work on a leaking lawn sprinkler valve now. :p

Get any offers for that ticket to Hawaii? Oh that's right the airports closed down. :D

Oh damn, just heard on the tube, NJ has lowered the max speed in the state to 45 mph due to the blizzard. Don't go breaking any speed limits Jon.

Oh damn, just heard on the tube, NJ has lowered the max speed in the state to 45 mph due to the blizzard. Don't go breaking any speed limits Jon.

hehe.. I wouldn't exceed 25mph right now if I were to go out in this weather. If someone is driving 45mph in 6inches of snow, I don't care if they are magic Mario.. they are out of control. :eek:

I just looked at the old dyno sheet from my pre-turbo dyno runs. I would take a digi pic of it, but it's hard to tell the difference between the stock plots and the Canzoomer plots when it was installed on my 8. It's confusing me looking at it, so fudging a digi pic of it would be pointless.

However, I am eyeballing the plots and compating stock to turbo. With the turbo, I have approx 40hp more at 3000 RPM, 50hp more at 3500RPM compared to stock... then from 4000 RPM on up it's about 55-65hp more than stock.. So from what I see in the graphs, the extra HP comes really early.. around 3000RPM. That's when the turbo spools up which makes sense.


Good info John, thanks -

Question: Were your numbers 'corrected' or 'measured'? If they were SAE, can you find the correction value?

Let's think for a second...

40-65 more HP at 66% of the available powerband...That sounds great. While I am growing more frustrated at Mazda's refusal to 're-update' their claimed power levels, that GReddy turbo system may just be the ticket, eh? :) As long as it wouldn't lead to too many tickets. :-D

-darin

how is that? the engine is still producing the same power, its only the rear wheels which are turning slower. The only downside is the dyno takes a bit longer to run (but also gives you better resolution, more power showing up, and more repeatable results) which shouldn't matter as long as your cooling system is up to power.

higher gear = higher load = more stress on the engine.

40-65 more HP at 66% of the available powerband...That sounds great. While I am growing more frustrated at Mazda's refusal to 're-update' their claimed power levels, that GReddy turbo system may just be the ticket, eh?

Unfortunately that ticket is sans warranty. But like they say no pain no gain - right? :cool:

just out of curiousity. how would water injection be on a turbocharged rotary?? i'm coming from the MR2 community where WI was very popular. it allows you to run more boost and tune more aggressively, at the same time, being safer. although adding water injection isn't going to give you power itself, it allows you to turn up the heat, which in return gives you those wanted ponies.

Water injection has become popular on the RX-7 and works very well. It is something that would work on the RX-8 and allow you to run more boost on pump gas.

Jason
www.rx8store.com

Do It Philodox

If you're running a WI setup for added safety margin, great. If you're running it so you can tune for it, i.e. turn up the boost beyond what you would otherwise do, you'd better be damned sure you don't run out of water or something doesn't fail in the system.

jds

just out of curiousity. how would water injection be on a turbocharged rotary?? i'm coming from the MR2 community where WI was very popular. it allows you to run more boost and tune more aggressively, at the same time, being safer. although adding water injection isn't going to give you power itself, it allows you to turn up the heat, which in return gives you those wanted ponies.

If you're running a WI setup for added safety margin, great. If you're running it so you can tune for it, i.e. turn up the boost beyond what you would otherwise do, you'd better be damned sure you don't run out of water or something doesn't fail in the system.
If the system would measure the temperature it could reduce boost as soon as the temperature exceeds a certain limit (for instance when the water injection system fails or if its very hot (ambient temperature) and humid (less water can evaporate.))
Water injection is cheaper than an intercooler and reduces the length of intake pipes and doesn't restrict the airflow. I wonder why it's not more common it shouldn't be that difficult to control it and make it save. I heard rumors about potential corrosion but don't see how that could indeed be an issue as long as it always evaporates before reaching the engine and distilled water is being used.
Of course there's the inconvenience of having to fill a water reservoir occasionally.

It has a much greater chance of failure than an intercooler and even without any failures you have to keep filling it...plus I doubt its much cheaper than an IC if you do it right.

jds

We've been through this before. WI can be usfull but as someone just said to use it as an intrical part of your tuneing system is nnot good. It is a band aid. What is it doing? Putting out the fire that's what.
If it saves you from burning a piston then it did it's job, but if that is your MO then you designed the package wrong.

We used water/alcohol in the race Merlins but were running 50psi at times. Notice that we used the alcohol to make up for the lost heat. Methanol burns cool has great latent heat of evaporation. Don't use ethanol.
If you must use it use 50/50 alki/h2o. Distilled water of course.

Don't mistake pure water for distilled.

My brother had an Srt-4 that he installed a WI kit on, and it made his car absolutly sick.... with it, he was able to crank up the stock turbo with out any detonation....

Philodox

You don't have a Gtech do you?

It would be good to see some numbers/graphs with the intercooler & intake getting their full quota of cool air!

When the snow stops!!!!!!!! :eek:

Philodox

You don't have a Gtech do you?

It would be good to see some numbers/graphs with the intercooler & intake getting their full quota of cool air!

When the snow stops!!!!!!!! :eek:

Sorry, no Gtech.. I've always heard they are pretty unreliable. So I never went out to buy one.

I have a G-Tech Pro and a ton of before-turbo runs.
As soon as the roads clear (probably several weeks) I will get some new post-turbo runs.

Nice one MazdaManiac!

I haven an Auterra (for the Palm OS) that hooks up through OBD-II. It can give you all sorts of info from your ECU, and on top of it, it can time 0-60 / 1/4 mile runs, etc. It's pretty spot on. You can even give it a bunch of info like the frontal area of your car, the weight, gear ratios, conditions, etc, and it can give you a dyno chart if you do a pull in the gear of your choice.

Believe it or not, it's reasonably accurate too.

Now that is an interesting product - Hymee you have a competitor...

http://www.auterraweb.com/index.html

Wow.. that's a nifty tool.. Something I may look into. Does it take AFR too? Would be useful for tuning.

Sorry, no Gtech.. I've always heard they are pretty unreliable. So I never went out to buy one.

I believe if one were to take measurements under the same conditions, roads, etc, the GTech is a fine tool to chart progress; Id est, while GTech's aren't comparible to dynos or actual track racing, they are a great tool to compare with other gtech runs in the same car.

Sorry, no Gtech.. I've always heard they are pretty unreliable. So I never went out to buy one.
They are a lot like the dyno - they are for comparison, not absolute measurement.

Considering the Apollo missions were guided by inertial accelerometers that were far less accurate, I think the G-Tech is amazingly veracious.
The trick is knowing how to use it, knowing the accurate specs for your testing situation and, most importantly, knowing what it does and does not do.

Too many people just slap one on their dash and go out blasting down the highway.http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/smiles/icon_no2.gif

higher gear = higher load = more stress on the engine.

umm no... you can only reach 100% load

umm no... you can only reach 100% load

Do you know what gears dp? I don't mean to be condescending. But gears take stress and load off of the engine. That's why it's easier to move in 1st gear vs 6th gear. It's just the way the physics work out. Gears provide mechanical advantage.

In order for the dyno to work, it has to put enough stress on the engine to reach 100% load no matter what gear your in and the engine can only produce xxx hp no matter what gear your in. A dyno is not going to load the car to the point where it stops the wheels and spins them backwards - which would happen if you hit much much more then 100% load.

The only result in the end of using a higher gear is the wheels spin at a much faster speed and will accelerate at a much slower pace then using a taller gear - which is what you want because the slower acceleration means less inertial losses in the drivetrain (plus if your in 5th the power gets transmitted directly through the tranny rather then going through a secondary shaft). The old 15% drivetrain loss rule implies you are in the 1:1 gear ratio or else it is going to be much greater. FWIW, before reading this board the only time i've ever heard of people dynoing a car in anything other then the 1:1 drive gear is when they are doing quick a/f tuning runs and just using the results to compare against other runs done that way.

Think of how much hp "increase" is observed from a flywheel in 1st gear compared to 4th gear... its the same laws of physics working


When i use to test engines in an engine lab we would actually hold the throttle wide open and then adjust the dyno resistance so that the rpms would remain constant for a good 30 sec at steady state and basically work our way up throughout the rev band that way to get the most repeatable results.

I haven an Auterra (for the Palm OS) that hooks up through OBD-II. It can give you all sorts of info from your ECU, and on top of it, it can time 0-60 / 1/4 mile runs, etc. It's pretty spot on. You can even give it a bunch of info like the frontal area of your car, the weight, gear ratios, conditions, etc, and it can give you a dyno chart if you do a pull in the gear of your choice.

Believe it or not, it's reasonably accurate too.

Where did you get it from??

I'm not even going to bother anymore.. if you've never put a car on a dyno, you wouldn't know that stressing the engine at a higher gear has a very good chance of detonation... someone else want to take a stab at this?

Also, the dyno takes into account the gear you are in when it figures out whp.

FWIW, before reading this board the only time i've ever heard of people dynoing a car in anything other then the 1:1 drive gear is when they are doing quick a/f tuning runs and just using the results to compare against other runs done that way.


I don't know much about gear ratio vs. engine loading, but I've always read/been told that you dyno in a gear as close to 1:1 as you can as well.


FWIW

Now that is an interesting product - Hymee you have a competitor...

http://www.auterraweb.com/index.html

Not really, I've seen Hymee's in action. It's awesome on a full laptop screen. The gauges are spot-on full replicas of RX-8 instruments, something to behold. Much easier to interpret, too.....

I'm not even going to bother anymore.. if you've never put a car on a dyno, you wouldn't know that stressing the engine at a higher gear has a very good chance of detonation... someone else want to take a stab at this?

Also, the dyno takes into account the gear you are in when it figures out whp.

I think the greddy kit with race gas and 10-13 psi could get you close to 300 whp w/o blowing up the motor.


As for dyno tune when I worked for PFS we would dyno tune to get it as close as possible but then hit the street for the last bit of tuning. It makes a little more on the street but nothing drastic.

Where did you get it from??

I got mine new off of ebay and saved a few bucks. As far as I'm concerned, anyone doing serious power mods (on an OBD-II car) should have one.

Wow.. that's a nifty tool.. Something I may look into. Does it take AFR too? Would be useful for tuning.

I honestly forget whether it does AFR or not, since I have a WBO2. As far as I'm concerned, a NBO2 is only useful for N/A tuning.

umm no... you can only reach 100% load

That may be true, but who says you're reaching 100% load in less than 5th gear? Many cars run a tad more boost in 5th gear...thre's a reason for that.

I honestly forget whether it does AFR or not, since I have a WBO2. As far as I'm concerned, a NBO2 is only useful for N/A tuning.
The RX-8 comes with a WBO2 sensor...several CANScan tools out there make use of it (Harrison's R&D is one of them...) - Besides, remember that the interface with the RX-8 is using CAN protocol.

I got mine new off of ebay and saved a few bucks. As far as I'm concerned, anyone doing serious power mods (on an OBD-II car) should have one.



what did you search under i trying to get one myself ???

Not sure you'd gain much at such a low PSI.

Dunno what setup Jeff is running, but I'd guess around 240whp for Jon.
why would low psi have an effect. lowering air temp like that should be a horsepower gain regardless right? i have seen it advertised as 50-60hp gains. this is douptful for the 8 but it should still be a hp boost of some signifigance i would think.

so given the numbers on the dynos, the n-tercooler kit could bump up some more toward that 300rwhp number if advertizements are near truth-full. any one given thought to this and going to try it? i would like to see what that would do on top of the turbo kit

The "N-Tercooler" would only be useful if the IC wasn't so efficient and the boost was turned up out of the efficiency range of the turbo itself.
It won't yield much if any increase in power by itself.

OK Jon, At least let it be me to put you in the lead.
May TSi TSi Flies nest in your arm pits. :p :p

OK Jon, At least let it be me to put you in the lead.
May TSi TSi Flies nest in your arm pits. :p :p

lol.. thanks Richard.. May Black Palm be embedded in your fingers as well :p For those of you that don't know what Black Palm is, it's the "national" tree of the country of Panama.. nasty stuff ;)

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/smiles/icon_shrug.gif

Well Guys.. rx8-tx just did me a favor and plotted the torque curve based on my whp and mph of my dyno chart. Here's the results for that

193.44ft-lbs @ 4643rpm was the max according to his calculations

190'ish torque was availible starting at about 3100rpm al the way up to about 7000rpm. So now you know what I meant when I said it had a bit more kick to it at launch.. no wonder I can go sideways in 1st-4th gears if I try :eek:

John your right about dynoing in 3rd/4th rather then 5th.

In addition to the extra load put on the engine and greater chance of pinging since you don't have the correct volume of air flowing at 100mph through the intake. I would seriously worry about oil temps doing consectutive runs in 5th gear, also the wheelspeed is so high (140+) that there is greater room for error on the acutal horse power figure, you can see this by how much spikier the graph of a 4th gear dyno is then a 3rd.

John your right about dynoing in 3rd/4th rather then 5th.

In addition to the extra load put on the engine and greater chance of pinging since you don't have the correct volume of air flowing at 100mph through the intake. I would seriously worry about oil temps doing consectutive runs in 5th gear, also the wheelspeed is so high (140+) that there is greater room for error on the acutal horse power figure, you can see this by how much spikier the graph of a 4th gear dyno is then a 3rd.

Thanks Mark.. finally.. someone steps up to watch my back ;)

The load on the engine in fifth gear is tremendous and requires allot of air going through the radiators. Don't do it unless you like the smell of coolant!

The RPM pickup on Dynojets gets funky from dropping. A new pickup solves the problem for a while...

Nice HP gains! Thanks for sharing!

Vince

I agree

I've always dyno'd in 3rd gear on a 5-sp car before!

I presume they are torque figures @ the wheels, if so, I find that very impressive....

The sooner they do a kit for the UK the better!!!!!!!!!!!

The load on the engine in fifth gear is tremendous and requires allot of air going through the radiators. Don't do it unless you like the smell of coolant!

The RPM pickup on Dynojets gets funky from dropping. A new pickup solves the problem for a while...

Nice HP gains! Thanks for sharing!

Vince


I wonder why the load on the car is so damaging to an RX8? Every other car i've owned has been dyno'd at 1:1 ratios...I think ppl are just afraid...if our 1:1 gear was named 'fourth' I doube there'd be any debate.

Non Dyno related question: Did the kit come with injectors? I only ask, because the Re Amemiya kit (which is also a Greddy/Trust kit ) comes with 2 "main injectors". I'm not paying the $5k+ for the kit, but was just looking (since it's the only thing available for the 4port motor). Just curious if the 4 port has different injectors than the 6 port?

Non Dyno related question: Did the kit come with injectors? I only ask, because the Re Amemiya kit (which is also a Greddy/Trust kit ) comes with 2 "main injectors". I'm not paying the $5k+ for the kit, but was just looking (since it's the only thing available for the 4port motor). Just curious if the 4 port has different injectors than the 6 port?
The 4-AT only has two injectors per rotor. The 6-MT has three.
The additional injectors in the Amemiya kit may be replacements for the secondaries.

^^correct

(least what i read somewhere...can't find it now to save my life sorry :o )

John your right about dynoing in 3rd/4th rather then 5th.

In addition to the extra load put on the engine and greater chance of pinging since you don't have the correct volume of air flowing at 100mph through the intake. I would seriously worry about oil temps doing consectutive runs in 5th gear, also the wheelspeed is so high (140+) that there is greater room for error on the acutal horse power figure, you can see this by how much spikier the graph of a 4th gear dyno is then a 3rd.

umm, no - airflow through the engine is a function of throttle position and rpm

I wonder why the load on the car is so damaging to an RX8? Every other car i've owned has been dyno'd at 1:1 ratios...I think ppl are just afraid...if our 1:1 gear was named 'fourth' I doube there'd be any debate.

thank you :)

this is how racing beat runs their engine stands - increasing the rpms very gradually. Their dyno actually will take 70 seconds to go from 2000rpms to 9000 rpms, which is longer then a 5th gear pull would take by a long shot (which also means "more resistance" on the engine to some people here it seems)


https://www.racingbeat.com/testprocedures.htm

"We undertake all dyno testing in sweeps, starting below 2000 rpm then accelerating by 100 rpm increments per second, and the dyno makes dyno inertia corrections that arise while the engine is accelerating. Data is logged during these test sweeps and reviewed at the completion of each run."

thank you :)


:tup: ;) :D


as a side note, my PGT had nearly 20 more HP in 4th, than in 3rd gear - on the dyno (after boost).

I'd like to dyno a boosted RX8 in 5th...in fact, when I dyno my stock RX8, chances are it'll be a 5th gear run. I've seen cars to WOT, top speed runs on dynos w/ little worry about things I'm reading on this site. Naturally, I have no idea if those cars are still running, or not. :D

umm, no - airflow through the engine is a function of throttle position and rpm Ummmmm no.
Although the engine creates a vacuum effect and naturally suctions air in as a function of throttle position and RPM, airflow is just as much dependant on the volume and speed of the air entering the intake.
Your post is in complete ignorance, if airflow through the engine was a fixed value there would be no need for a Mass AirFlow Sensor, inaddition to that why do you think they have special dynos with GIANT wind tunnels in front of them designed to blow HUGE amounts of air at cars being dynoed, RAM air....

this is how racing beat runs their engine stands - increasing the rpms very gradually. Their dyno actually will take 70 seconds to go from 2000rpms to 9000 rpms, which is longer then a 5th gear pull would take by a long shot (which also means "more resistance" on the engine to some people here it seems) ..... Your talking apples and oranges, its an engine dyno they closely monitor engine temps down to a tenth of a degree, I'm willing to hinder a guess that they also cool the engine differently and more efficiently.
___________
Simply put, Higher the gear the greater the load the greater the chance for ping, the greater the chance for overheating, both due to the lack of airflow; made worse by doing more then 1 run a session.

:tup: ;) :D
I'd like to dyno a boosted RX8 in 5th...in fact, when I dyno my stock RX8, chances are it'll be a 5th gear run.
I wouldn't do more then one without a cool down period.

Ummmmm no.
Although the engine creates a vacuum effect and naturally suctions air in as a function of throttle position and RPM, airflow is just as much dependant on the volume and speed of the air entering the intake.
Your post is in complete ignorance, if airflow through the engine was a fixed value there would be no need for a Mass AirFlow Sensor, inaddition to that why do you think they have special dynos with GIANT wind tunnels in front of them designed to blow HUGE amounts of air at cars being dynoed, RAM air....
Ram air effect is negligible if there is no ducting to take advantage of the effect.
The RX-8 has no such ducting.

What ever amount of air goes past the MAF goes into the engine. It is "fixed" in that whatever is metered, goes into the motor while it is under load.

On a dyno, the absolute load remains the same for a given amount of airflow regardless of gearing.

The issue with gearing is simply a function of load over time. You are putting the engine in a loaded situation for a longer period of time in higher gears and, therefore, generating wasted energy (heat) for a longer period of time. However, the cooling capacity of the system remains the same so the stress goes up.

Actually pr0ber and PoLaK are BOTH right when it comes to airflow. At least in how we can control the fuel delivery to the engine that is. I know you guys are both talking about the physical amount of air entering the engine but I'll explain how this translates into fuel requirement. There are more forms of control than what I am going to mention so I will just stay with the two basic comments made. More specifically I am going to address the comment about the need for a mass air flow system.

pr0ber stated that "airflow through the engine is a function of throttle position and rpm". PoLaK's reply included the sentence " if airflow through the engine was a fixed value there would be no need for a Mass AirFlow Sensor".

Yes and No. The RX-8 uses several factors to determine the proper way to meter fuel to the amount of air entering the engine. Among them is the amount of calculated airflow into the engine, engine rpm, air intake temperature, and throttle position. All of these can be in nearly infinite combinations. The ecu takes all of these signals and based on preset values determines the proper way to meter fuel for the most power, emissions, drivability, and/or economy. Each aspect may take precedence over the others based on how the car is being driven at that point. This is but only 1 way to calculate the air/fuel requirements.

Another popular way ONLY takes into account the throttle position and rpm. This method is called Alpha-N. Most race cars use this method and it works very good in terms of making full power. Holley has an aftermarket efi system that replaces carbs called the Pro-jection that uses Alpha-N. It is a system that is more common on high overlap engines such as those in race cars. This is because Alpha-N does not require a strong vacuum signal to function properly as some other systems do. Most standalone efi systems also have the ability to run Alpha-N. The disadvantage in Alpha-N is that it is not the best for fuel economy or emissions. It can not vary the air/fuel ratio depending on load as a map type of system can. Alpha-N can also have a very touchy feel to it. This is because the throttlebody is typically sized for max flow at max rpm. This means that at lower rpm's, the throttle body doesn't necessarily need to be opened all the way in order to provide the engine with all the air it needs. Any throttle position above this is worthless in terms of making more power. Alpha-N is setup to provide fuel based on the engine's requirement. At 4000 rpm it may be injecting just as much fuel at 50% throttle as it would at 100% since the engine may be getting all the air it needs. There is alot less fine tuning with Alpha-N. Alpha-N makes it very clear that just because you are at a higher throttle at a particular rpm, it doesn't mean that any more air is entering the engine.

Now for the real answer. The reason why the pressure changes with increased throttle is because the throttle plate is opened farther. It doesn't mean that the engine wasn't ingesting all it could at a higher vacuum level. This really depends on rpm and size of the throttle plate. If this is the case, the vacuum level will change with throttle position but the amount of air ingested won't. This phenomenon will also vary with rpm as at lower rpm's you can be at max airlfow potential at a low throttle level whereas at max rpm you need to be at max throttle. This is all independent of intake manifold design. That has it's own effect.

FWIW: In order for a fan to provide "ram air", it would have to be blowing somewhere over 100 mph and even then it's only ram air if the intake is designed for it. A 100 mph wind blowing on an air filter is not necessarily a ram air system nor is it necessarily ramming any more air in than no wind at all. Most likely not. Not even the "Ram Air" Trans Ams have a "ram air" system. It's bad marketing bother there and the aftermarket that is confusing people. Those large fans are there soley to keep the car from overheating. That's it. At high engine loads and speeds, the stock fans are not adequate to remove heat from the oil coolers and radiator.

A bit off topic, but RG are you an engineer? Or have you just been playing with rotaries for a long time?

I wonder why the load on the car is so damaging to an RX8? Every other car i've owned has been dyno'd at 1:1 ratios...I think ppl are just afraid...if our 1:1 gear was named 'fourth' I doube there'd be any debate.

Our engines have allot less mass to absorb heat before they go critical. That's not a bad thing at all, just something to be aware of.

Vince

fellas...just found out i'll be travelling to Newark tomorrow - Fri...if Jon/Jeff are near or will be near that area let me know...i wanna check out your cars...

Our engines have allot less mass to absorb heat before they go critical. That's not a bad thing at all, just something to be aware of.

Vince


Did I miss somewhere in this thread about where the RX7 guys dyno? Is it comparible to say if 'they' dyno in a 1:1 gear, our cars should have little trouble doing likewise?

Apples:Apples there?

I think you should try it and prove it to yourself!!! :)


Vince

Wow.. that's a nifty tool.. Something I may look into. Does it take AFR too? Would be useful for tuning.

Jon, I found this:

"Commanded Equivalence Ratio – fuel systems that use conventional oxygen sensor displays the commanded open loop equivalence ratio while the system is in open loop. Should report 100% when in closed loop fuel. To obtain the actual air/fuel ratio being commanded, multiply the stoichiometric A/F ratio by the equivalence ratio. For example, gasoline, stoichiometric is 14.64:1 ratio. If the fuel control system was command an equivalence ratio of 0.95, the commanded A/F ratio to the engine would be 14.64 * 0.95 = 13.9 A/F."

So I guess the answer is yes.

Not really, I've seen Hymee's in action. It's awesome on a full laptop screen. The gauges are spot-on full replicas of RX-8 instruments, something to behold. Much easier to interpret, too.....

I agree, I want a sCANanlyser also, but I could buy this product today. Time is money...

FWIW: In order for a fan to provide "ram air", it would have to be blowing somewhere over 100 mph and even then it's only ram air if the intake is designed for it. A 100 mph wind blowing on an air filter is not necessarily a ram air system nor is it necessarily ramming any more air in than no wind at all. Most likely not. Not even the "Ram Air" Trans Ams have a "ram air" system. It's bad marketing bother there and the aftermarket that is confusing people. Those large fans are there soley to keep the car from overheating. That's it. At high engine loads and speeds, the stock fans are not adequate to remove heat from the oil coolers and radiator.

If the rx8 does not have ram air wouldn't the engineers locate the intake in an area of positive pressure? Wouldn't the big fans help intake by creating an area of positive pressure?

More videos pleaseeee!!! Thanks for your great contribution philodox and everyboy in this thread.
:D

Maybe this will finally make it feel more like your race car :) Are you going to purchase the GReddy kit, or do you have your eye on possibly another choice?

There are areas of the car that exibit different pressures. The nose of the car and the base of the windshield are higher pressure zones. The middle of the hood is a lower pressure zone. You obviously want to place the intake in the higher pressure zones. The RX-8 intake is behind the front bumper where the air passing this area is higher pressure. However, just because it is higher pressure than other areas does not make it "ram air". The big fans used at dynos aren't blowing terribly fast. Definitely not over 100 mph. The speed they are blowing at isn't even enough to give you positive intake pressure at off idle rpms. As the engine rpm's rise, the effect the fans have on intake pressure gets lower and lower. The whole point is that while airspeed past the car makes a difference at speed, fans at dynos don't do enough to be significant. They are adequate to help remove heat from the cooling system though and that is their purpose.

"Ram air" is a subject that many people don't understand. GM and many aftermarket companies have really created a false image of how it works. By simply placing an air filter in the airstream, you do not have ram air. It is a "cold air" system. You aren't ramming anything anywhere. Even if you aimed the tube straight into the airstream so air flows directly into it, you still don't have "ram air". The reason is that as you are trying to force more air into the pipe, you are trying to increase it's velocity. As airspeed increases, density decreases. You've gone backwards. What actually happens is that the pipe resistance just becomes too great and much of this air goes around while what does enter the intake is at a lower pressure. Also not that this can happen even if the filter is in the high pressure regions of the car.

"In order to "ram air" into the engine, you need to find a medium that can do it for you. A turbo or a supercharger "ram air" into the engine. The question is how do we do this without the help of a turbo or a supercharger? One method that is built into every engine is the intake manifold design. This uses the airs inertia to help cram inn a little more right before the port closes. It's effect and rpm range is based on intake runner diameter and length. We've already got that though and want to know how to make the intake itself a "ram air" setup. In order to "ram air" into the engine, we need to compress it. In order to compress air, you need to make it slow down, not speed up. This is what a turbo or a supercharger do. If you could measure the airspeed before and after these units, you'd see that the air is faster on the inlet side.

To design an intake box that does this we need to do more than just place the air filter in the airstream. You need to have an intake tube in the airstream that then feeds a larger expansion (or more appropriately and compression) chamber. A way to do this would be to take a 6" pipe and feed it directly into the oncoming air. This pipe then feeds into a "box" where the area expands many times over the area of the inlet pipe. This box can contain the filter and then go on to the engine. When the air flows through this large pipe from the forward speed of the vehicle, it enters this chamber and the expansion in area slows it down. When it slows down, it compresses a little. This compressed air is what the engine is actually breathing. This is "ram air". How much of an effect this has is based on 2 things. The most important is vehicle speed but the next one is engine rpm. Obviously at 100 mph at 5000 rpm, the engine needs less air than it does at 100 mph at 9000 rpm. The amount of "ram air" available would be greater at 5000. Postive pressure is positive pressure though and a gain is a gain. For everyday driving though, you won't benefit at all. You might, maybe, possibly, on a cold day, see a slight amount of positive pressure at speeds as low as 75 mph but it probably won't be enough to feel. At speeds up over 150 mph though you might get a couple psi of "boost". In 1979, Racing Beat found that on their nonturbo 13B Bonneville Land Speed record RX-7, a "ram air" setup done in this fashion added 3 mph to the cars top speed. It hit 183 mph. Without "ram air" it would do 180 mph. Remember that the effect is much greater at high speeds. How much of a benefit does a properly setup "ram air" system really have on the street? I'd say little to none. At least not at legal speeds.

A bit off topic, but RG are you an engineer? Or have you just been playing with rotaries for a long time?
Real Estate agent.

I just study all the info on rotaries and cars in general that I can find. None of it is a secret. An anonimous forum member even went out of his way in an insult attempt to let me know that I know nothing that anyone else can't learn. That's true!

Well guys, I couldn't resist and put on my Mazdaspeed Front Bumper. Now the Intercooler is REALLY noticable. Unfortunately, the pics are at night. I'll take some daytime pics tomorrow. How do you guys think that Intercooler looks?

Well guys, I couldn't resist and put on my Mazdaspeed Front Bumper. Now the Intercooler is REALLY noticable. Unfortunately, the pics are at night. I'll take some daytime pics tomorrow. How do you guys think that Intercooler looks?

ure the man jon
i guess i should of been a pilot or water that money tree some more.
great job buddy :)

respect!

Well guys, I couldn't resist and put on my Mazdaspeed Front Bumper. Now the Intercooler is REALLY noticable. Unfortunately, the pics are at night. I'll take some daytime pics tomorrow. How do you guys think that Intercooler looks? Salt sux on titgrey eh? Thank god i shloped on my winter coat of zaino b4 it started

Salt sux on titgrey eh? Thank god i shloped on my winter coat of zaino b4 it started

Yeah.. and I've washed my car twice in the last 5 days to get the salt off.. it's a daily battle.. hehe

Well guys, I couldn't resist and put on my Mazdaspeed Front Bumper. Now the Intercooler is REALLY noticable... How do you guys think that Intercooler looks?

Looks mean... I just wonder how air is reaching the radiator now. It looks like there is no gap left:confused:
By the way Jon, how many miles how you done with the turbo?

Yeah.. and I've washed my car twice in the last 5 days to get the salt off.. it's a daily battle.. hehe
I wish I could do that.

Mine is staying in the garage because every source of water around here is frozen solid. Even the self-washes are rock solid.

Looks mean... I just wonder how air is reaching the radiator now. It looks like there is no gap left:confused:
By the way Jon, how many miles how you done with the turbo?

There's plenty of airflow. Those pics don't really show it all. I'll take some better daytime ones tomorrow. Also, you must realize that the air going through the intercooler still continues through to the radiator and A/C grills.

Oh yeah, it's been about 500 miles now. Averaging 15mpg. 17mpg on my road trip down to Jeff's place for the dyno. Which is very strange considering that I was getting 10mpg before the turbo. Mazda really has the stock maps running tooooooo rich.

...Also, you must realize that the air going through the intercooler still continues through to the radiator and A/C grills.
....which is very strange considering that I was getting 10mpg before the turbo...

Cool, I never thought of that! I thought the intercooler was like a barricade...
Hehe, so milage problem solved, a turbo kit for everyone:D

That Is Great

I Cant Wait To Get My Turbo Kit Iam Getting It Next Month

There's plenty of airflow. Those pics don't really show it all. I'll take some better daytime ones tomorrow. Also, you must realize that the air going through the intercooler still continues through to the radiator and A/C grills.

Oh yeah, it's been about 500 miles now. Averaging 15mpg. 17mpg on my road trip down to Jeff's place for the dyno. Which is very strange considering that I was getting 10mpg before the turbo. Mazda really has the stock maps running tooooooo rich.
John wat did i say about MPG moaning..... you drive between 5 and 7k to keep it in the "powerband" what do you expect!

Jeff just take your garden hose inside the house for a little bit then bring it back outside.

Well Guys.. rx8-tx just did me a favor and plotted the torque curve based on my whp and mph of my dyno chart. Here's the results for that

193.44ft-lbs @ 4643rpm was the max according to his calculations

190'ish torque was availible starting at about 3100rpm al the way up to about 7000rpm. So now you know what I meant when I said it had a bit more kick to it at launch.. no wonder I can go sideways in 1st-4th gears if I try :eek:

philodox, I had a question for you in connection with the numbers I came up with. Looks like on the 4th gear run you got off the gas early (like 7.7~7.8K rpms) -Is there a reason for it?

To design an intake box that does this we need to do more than just place the air filter in the airstream. You need to have an intake tube in the airstream that then feeds a larger expansion (or more appropriately and compression) chamber. A way to do this would be to take a 6" pipe and feed it directly into the oncoming air. This pipe then feeds into a "box" where the area expands many times over the area of the inlet pipe. This box can contain the filter and then go on to the engine. When the air flows through this large pipe from the forward speed of the vehicle, it enters this chamber and the expansion in area slows it down. When it slows down, it compresses a little. This compressed air is what the engine is actually breathing. This is "ram air". How much of an effect this has is based on 2 things. The most important is vehicle speed but the next one is engine rpm. Obviously at 100 mph at 5000 rpm, the engine needs less air than it does at 100 mph at 9000 rpm. The amount of "ram air" available would be greater at 5000. Postive pressure is positive pressure though and a gain is a gain. For everyday driving though, you won't benefit at all. You might, maybe, possibly, on a cold day, see a slight amount of positive pressure at speeds as low as 75 mph but it probably won't be enough to feel. At speeds up over 150 mph though you might get a couple psi of "boost". In 1979, Racing Beat found that on their nonturbo 13B Bonneville Land Speed record RX-7, a "ram air" setup done in this fashion added 3 mph to the cars top speed. It hit 183 mph. Without "ram air" it would do 180 mph. Remember that the effect is much greater at high speeds. How much of a benefit does a properly setup "ram air" system really have on the street? I'd say little to none. At least not at legal speeds.

And correct me if I'm mistaken, but as such this is best uses in aviation? Such as "ram jets" (http://rocketsciencebooks.home.att.net/ramjet.html) and "scram jets" (http://www.nasa.gov/missions/research/x43-main.html)?

Mach 10?! "not at legal speeds" indeed :eek:

Jeff just take your garden hose inside the house for a little bit then bring it back outside.
Unfortunately, it is on a 50 ft reel, attached to the side of the house, that is also frozen.

Maybe I can aim my 50,000 BTU propane heater at the whole thing for an hour or so....

John wat did i say about MPG moaning..... you drive between 5 and 7k to keep it in the "powerband" what do you expect!

Jeff just take your garden hose inside the house for a little bit then bring it back outside.

Dude.. who said I was bitching.. I'm happy as a pig in shit that I can drive like i'm stealing the car and get 15mpg.. heh.. save it Mark.. geesh :p

philodox, I had a question for you in connection with the numbers I came up with. Looks like on the 4th gear run you got off the gas early (like 7.7~7.8K rpms) -Is there a reason for it?

I didn't do the dyno runs.. the owner did.. i asked him to dyno until 8500.. but he didn't.. if you don't like it please call that shop and complain to them.. sorry for my attitude this morning, but geesh.. half of these questions were covered in a previous post.. just use the damn search tool.

I didn't do the dyno runs.. the owner did.. i asked him to dyno until 8500.. but he didn't.. if you don't like it please call that shop and complain to them.. sorry for my attitude this morning, but geesh.. half of these questions were covered in a previous post.. just use the damn search tool.
Chill pills Philo...chill pills. Thanks!

Use The Tools

philodox, I had a question for you in connection with the numbers I came up with. Looks like on the 4th gear run you got off the gas early (like 7.7~7.8K rpms) -Is there a reason for it?
We had the operator let off on the runs at 8500 RPM or so.
Unfortunately, the tach in the RX-8 lies just like the tach in every other Mazda.

When he saw 8200 or so on the tach, the actual RPMs were only 7800.

No matter. Even though the absolute peak power might have been at 8000, I think we can all see the story from what we got. :D

Chill pills Philo...chill pills. Thanks!

sorry man.. rough morning.. think i broke my wrist last night.. can barely move the fingers on my right hand.

So You Cant Shift Gears

So You Cant Shift Gears

I've been shifting with my left hand.. you get used to it.. hehe

We had the operator let off on the runs at 8500 RPM or so.
Unfortunately, the tach in the RX-8 lies just like the tach in every other Mazda.

When he saw 8200 or so on the tach, the actual RPMs were only 7800.

No matter. Even though the absolute peak power might have been at 8000, I think we can all see the story from what we got. :D
That makes a lot of sense. I guess, my disclaimer is: I thought there was something whacky going on during the last stretch of the engine rpm band, and that's why the backed off. Again, the real answer makes perfect sense.

sorry man.. rough morning.. think i broke my wrist last night.. can barely move the fingers on my right hand.
Dude! It's all good. No hard feelings (that's if you provide a ride whenever I make it to jersey) :p

sorry man.. rough morning.. think i broke my wrist last night.. can barely move the fingers on my right hand. Ohh! Those kinds of injuries send chills down my spine! I can take blood and guts but a sprained or broken wrist or finger makes me cringe!http://www.matesupover.com/Main/Mates_Album/emoticon_album/action/puke.gif (http://www.matesupover.com/cgibin/emoticons/album.cgi?photo=action/punching.gif)

Ice it up real good until the swelling is mostly gone then switch to mild heat. Take a bunch of aspirin (2 at a time every 4 to 6 hours) until you can get it X-ray'ed.

Ugh...

Ohh! Those kinds of injuries send chills down my spine! I can take blood and guts but a sprained or broken wrist of finer makes me cringe!http://www.matesupover.com/Main/Mates_Album/emoticon_album/action/puke.gif (http://www.matesupover.com/cgibin/emoticons/album.cgi?photo=action/punching.gif)

Ice it up real good until the swelling is mostly gone then switch to mild heat. Take a bunch of aspirin (2 at a time every 4 to 6 hours) until you can get it X-ray'ed.

Ugh...

I think its just badly sprained.. there really isn't much swelling at all.. Been icing it 20 on 5 off for the last few hours.. no swelling or buising.. so it's probably just a grade 1 sprain.. nothing to worry about. just have to make sure not to hurt it again.. should be find in a day or two.

Oh yeah, I don't take asprin.. I prefer ibuprofen myself.. it's a better anti-inflammatory.

WELL GOTTA LOVE THE SNOW HERE. please dot drive it like its hot its to dame cold out for me to get out of my warm car and say let me see your paper work to turn around go back to my car and then come back just say have a good day sir please slow down in the rx8 with turbo :)

You should really see a doctor...

You should really see a doctor...

It's feeling a little better now. Mobility is almost 100%. I guess it just got really tight last night when I was sleeping.. I'll be fine. Thanks for the concern though guys, I really appreciate it.

On another note, here a daytime pic of the MS front bumper. YOu can see the intercooler a bit easier now.

-Jon

p.s. I know.. I need to adjust the angle on the foglights.. they are pointing too far down.

sorry man.. rough morning.. think i broke my wrist last night.. can barely move the fingers on my right hand.

a little to much http://www.rx7club.com/images/smilies/wackit.gif? :D

It's feeling a little better now. Mobility is almost 100%. I guess it just got really tight last night when I was sleeping.. I'll be fine. Thanks for the concern though guys, I really appreciate it.

On another note, here a daytime pic of the MS front bumper. YOu can see the intercooler a bit easier now.

-Jon

p.s. I know.. I need to adjust the angle on the foglights.. they are pointing too far down.
is the IC piping actually hanging BELOW the MS front bumper?? If so.. ew..

a little to much http://www.rx7club.com/images/smilies/wackit.gif? :D
Haha.. thanks Jason. Glad I have a girlfriend to take care of that for me though :cool:




is the IC piping actually hanging BELOW the MS front bumper?? If so.. ew..

Nope, it doesn't hang below the bumper at all. You can't see any of the plumbing unless you get remove the plastic trim under the car. I think what you saw was just the way the light was reflected off the pavement.

is the IC piping actually hanging BELOW the MS front bumper?? If so.. ew..
No, the piping is nice and tight and in a line with the IC, pointing slightly up into the engine bay.
Nothing is hanging down.

Real Estate agent.

I just study all the info on rotaries and cars in general that I can find. None of it is a secret. An anonimous forum member even went out of his way in an insult attempt to let me know that I know nothing that anyone else can't learn. That's true!

It's like insulting a doctor for being a doctor. That's why I go to the doctor because I don't want to spend 7+ years reading books to find out what's wrong when my butt is sore.

I don't want to spend 7+ years reading books to find out what's wrong when my butt is sore.

TMI!!!!!

TMI!!!!!
I 2nd that motion!

I 2nd that motion!

I guess free drinks at gay bars aren't really free?

I guess free drinks at gay bars aren't really free?
Haha.. just don't drink any White Russions.. never know where the white color comes from.. :p

It's feeling a little better now. Mobility is almost 100%. I guess it just got really tight last night when I was sleeping.. I'll be fine. Thanks for the concern though guys, I really appreciate it.

On another note, here a daytime pic of the MS front bumper. YOu can see the intercooler a bit easier now.

-Jon

p.s. I know.. I need to adjust the angle on the foglights.. they are pointing too far down.


Oh, sure. We show some compassion for your situation and you flaunt your new FI setup and bodywork. THE NERVE!!!!

;)

(Looks very nice!!)

Btw, why does most people think that our tranny / drive chain can't handle a "lot" of hps?

If I remember correctly the rx8 was rumored to have around 250hps when it first came out, and one would assume that mazda does like everybody else and work with at least 20% margin of error. That leaves us with roughly 320hps crank which the tranny / drive chain can safely handle. Who knows, maybe they built it bulletproof and we can crank it up like a supera :)

Haha.. just don't drink any White Russions.. never know where the white color comes from.. :p
White Russians are better, anyway.http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/smiles/jump3.gif

My drink of choice at the craps table...

Gaybar? http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar/

Those two guys that don't have wings are using ducted fans to fly?

Those two guys that don't have wings are using ducted fans to fly?
Beats having a turbine burn your furry kitten butt.:p

No, the piping is nice and tight and in a line with the IC, pointing slightly up into the engine bay.
Nothing is hanging down.
oo.. i have a shitty monitor at work.. that was just a reflection i was seeing under philo's car.

ok good.. btw.. kit looks great w/that body kit too

oo.. i have a shitty monitor at work.. that was just a reflection i was seeing under philo's car.

ok good.. btw.. kit looks great w/that body kit too
Thanks Ajax..



On another note.......

I talked to Greddy USA's customer service today. They are going to email me the stock emanage map that comes with the RX-8 kit tomorrow. It will not be password protected. I'll post it here on the forum for anyone that wants it. More information on that tomorrow.

What ecu does it use? The e-manage piggy back system?

Tim

What ecu does it use? The e-manage piggy back system?

Tim

Hello Tim,

Yes it's the e-manage piggy back system. It comes with a custom wiring harness so there is no wire splicing. Next time I suggest using the "search this thread" button. Pretty much every question concerning the Greddy kit has been answered already :) enjoy

-Jon

Btw, why does most people think that our tranny / drive chain can't handle a "lot" of hps?

If I remember correctly the rx8 was rumored to have around 250hps when it first came out, and one would assume that mazda does like everybody else and work with at least 20% margin of error. That leaves us with roughly 320hps crank which the tranny / drive chain can safely handle. Who knows, maybe they built it bulletproof and we can crank it up like a supera :)
i wasn't gonna bring this up, mainly because i can't validate it...lol

but someone mentioned the JIC drift rx8 having a stock 6 speed rx8 gearbox bolted to a 3rd gen 13b with a massive turbo. considering the power that thing must make and the abuse its put through while drifting only says one thing...rx8 transmissions are not as weak as we may think. i know what you're thinking, they gutted the tranny and replaced it with stronger internals, but JIC isn't that large of a company, and i've seen nowhere that they've done such a thing using custom parts, much less OTC parts.

either way, a driver with a handful of brain cells and only 7psi can easily spare the tranny.

I talked to Greddy USA's customer service today. They are going to email me the stock emanage map that comes with the RX-8 kit tomorrow. It will not be password protected. I'll post it here on the forum for anyone that wants it. More information on that tomorrow.

You are the MAN.............can't wait to see what they are doing :D

I talked to Greddy USA's customer service today. They are going to email me the stock emanage map that comes with the RX-8 kit tomorrow. It will not be password protected. I'll post it here on the forum for anyone that wants it. More information on that tomorrow.
Awesome.

I'd really like to see that.

either way, a driver with a handful of brain cells and only 7psi can easily spare the tranny.
hey hey hey... I have more than a few brain cells left.. or at least I like to think :p

I'm getting my Greddy turbo kit installed starting Monday morning. I got the Greddy Type S blow off valve, 2 Greddy 52 mm (Boost & EGT) gauges, Carbo Fiber pillar gauge pod sent out. I have the turbo kit sitting in my living room & the BOV is supposed to be here tomorrow. I actually have a Greddy Profec-A unit that my friend gave me, and I will talk to my mechanic to see what he can do. I have the SR Motorsports hi-flow cat & resonator unit on my car too. I will be dynoing it over at Los Angeles Performance Division after I have the kit installed. I'll take some pictures & let everybody know what happens. Am I the only one on the west coast that has the kit ? It seems like all the info. is coming from the east coast. I will try to have the car done by the 5th. It looks like the RX club might be having a San Fernando Valley event near me, and hopefully I will have the kit installed by then. Also getting some 19" rims put on.

Nope, west coast here too...

I'm getting my Greddy turbo kit installed starting Monday ......hopefully I will have the kit installed by then. Also getting some 19" rims put on.

Wow, come into some money did we? http://66.206.4.159/jealous.png Hehehe..

either way, a driver with a handful of brain cells and only 7psi can easily spare the tranny.

how many brain cells would one need at 9-10psi to spare the tranny?

I'm getting my Greddy turbo kit installed starting Monday morning. I got the Greddy Type S blow off valve, 2 Greddy 52 mm (Boost & EGT) gauges, Carbo Fiber pillar gauge pod sent out. .......
Don't forget the Kodak moment of all this kit so we can enjoy it back here in fantasy land :D , esp the guage pod & guages. Thanks!

how many brain cells would one need at 9-10psi to spare the tranny?
At least enough to create friction.

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/smiles/threadjacked.gif

Hey philo, did the turbo lessen your exhaust noise?

Hey philo, did the turbo lessen your exhaust noise?
Yes, a turbo is a restriction on the exhaust flow. It lowered the exhaust note marginally, but still noticable.

Yes, a turbo is a restriction on the exhaust flow. It lowered the exhaust note marginally, but still noticable.

Great that is what I am looking for. I thought with my RB exhaust on the exhaust sound was perfect, but when I added my SR hi-flow cat (w/ resonator) it got a bit too loud for me. I have actaully gotten dynamat to wall the lining/bottom of my trunk, but now I guess I'll just wait until after my turbo install to see if that is still the case.

i heard that you couldnt put any turbo in the rx-8!! thats awesome how much was it?

Well guys, I think I've run into my first problem with the Greddy kit. I am getting a lot of oil passing through my intake system which is causing A LOT of smoke on very cold startups. I'll try to elaborate.

Day before yesterday. It was 12deg F outside. Started up the car and after about 2 or 3 minutes of idling I got a smokescreen of white smoke with a blue hue to it. Also had very rough idle. No CEL of any sort. So I went for a short drive to get it up to temp. After the engine is up to temp there was no more smoke, and the exhaust didn't smell like burnt oil anymore. After getting home I popped the hood, there was about 1/4qt of oil on the inside of my engine bay that was being shot out of my BOV. I was about 1qt low on oil. I let the car cool down fully, then started it up again.. no problems at all this time. Refilled oil to proper levels

Yesterday. Temp is 38deg F outside. Started the car up in the morning.. no troubles at all. Ran perfectly. Still a tiny bit of oil being shot out of my BOV, but I attributed this to oil that was still in the intercooler from the day before. Oil levels were normal.

Today. Temp outside is 11deg F. Same deal at the other day. Massive amounts of white smoke with a blue hue. Oil is about 1.25qts low.

Now, I checked my oil catch can. It was filled with water. 6 ounces of water to be exact. So I drained the catch can.

I just got off the phone with Greddy's customer service. Spoke to a guy named Kenji. He just told me to check my oil return line to make sure it wasn't clogged. It if was clogged then oil would get into the intake side of the turbo. My response to him was "Why does this only happen when it's well below freezing outside?". He just told me to recheck the return line to make sure it wasn't clogged.

My thoughts, please tell me if I am way off base here... If I had that much moisture in my oil system that I had 6 ounces of water in my catch can, is it possible that I enough water in the oil pan that it actually freezes inside the return line. Hence causing the oil to be shot through the intake system until the car is up to temperature? Not driving the car anymore today. Taking it over to my mech tomorrow to look at it.

On another note, not sure if this is related or not. I got a CEL pop up on me last night. Checked the code today and it read:
P0300 Random misfire detected Flash/ON 1 or 2 Misfire (See DTC P0300 )

Can someone tell me a possible cause of this? Bad spark plugs perhaps?

Thanks guys. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

-Jon

Here's a thought. Whatever it turns out to be it is caused by the drain being below the oil level. You may be right about the water but I doubt there could be that much just from condensation. What I see happening is that the oil is so thick that it blocks free flow of return. I assume you are already running 5/30 oil.You cant get much thiner than that.

But you are also running a synthetic oil I think. Here I am not sure if the reverse viscocity works as good as it does with a mineral oil. I'm only guessing on that one.

Solution: Build a new pan that has a droped sump. Lowering the level so you have room to put the return above the oil level. You will need to lower the pick up also because you're not going to add capacity just lower the level. Create a bigger gap of air so to speak.

I have an interest here because my blower requires oil return also. On mine you would have to blow a lipseal for it to get into the intake. This could still happen I guess and the seal would need to be replaced. I don't know what kind of seal the turbo has so I don't know if it is permenent in your case.

Oil is lighter then water so the oil will be at the top and only a thin layer of water on the bottom. Trouble here is that the drain plug is designed to be at the bottom so as to do it's job.

I know the pan is very shallow and not much room exists above the level of the plug so putting the drain as high as you can by welding a drain in may not be enough help. A specially shaped tube could be made that is wide but shallow in hight. This then welded to the pan just below the lip.

The better solution is to get the custom pan built by a specialty pan maker. I know no shop that can do a one off very cheaply though. But there are some race shops that do it. Just going to cost unless you can get them a lot of pans to do.

I have some freinds in that industry, I guess I could feel them out. It nmight be a nessesity for my blower users. If it works for turbo's then it will work for me. So I'm watching this one.


Why I keep helping you get ahead of me on posts is beyond me :confused:

Oh yea, the plug misfired because it fouled with oil, that is a "fer sur."
If it doesnt clear you'll have to remove them for cleaning or replacement. In this case do not replace them with colder plugs. the colder the plug the easier it will foul.

Here's a thought. Whatever it turns out to be it is caused by the drain being below the oil level. You may be right about the water but I doubt there could be that much just from condensation. What I see happening is that the oil is so thick that it blocks free flow of return. I assume you are already running 5/30 oil.You cant get much thiner than that.

But you are also running a synthetic oil I think. Here I am not sure if the reverse viscocity works as good as it does with a mineral oil. I'm only guessing on that one.

Solution: Build a new pan that has a droped sump. Lowering the level so you have room to put the return above the oil level. You will need to lower the pick up also because you're not going to add capacity just lower the level. Create a bigger gap of air so to speak.

I have an interest here because my blower requires oil return also. On mine you would have to blow a lipseal for it to get into the intake. This could still happen I guess and the seal would need to be replaced. I don't know what kind of seal the turbo has so I don't know if it is permenent in your case.

Oil is lighter then water so the oil will be at the top and only a thin layer of water on the bottom. Trouble here is that the drain plug is designed to be at the bottom so as to do it's job.

I know the pan is very shallow and not much room exists above the level of the plug so putting the drain as high as you can by welding a drain in may not be enough help. A specially shaped tube could be made that is wide but shallow in hight. This then welded to the pan just below the lip.

The better solution is to get the custom pan built by a specialty pan maker. I know no shop that can do a one off very cheaply though. But there are some race shops that do it. Just going to cost unless you can get them a lot of pans to do.

I have some freinds in that industry, I guess I could feel them out. It nmight be a nessesity for my blower users. If it works for turbo's then it will work for me. So I'm watching this one.


Why I keep helping you get ahead of me on posts is beyond me :confused:

Oh yea, the plug misfired because it fouled with oil, that is a "fer sur."
If it doesnt clear you'll have to remove them for cleaning or replacement. In this case do not replace them with colder plugs. the colder the plug the easier it will foul.

Richard,

Thanks for the insight. I was thinking along the same lines. I do use synthetic oil... Royal Purple 5w20 to be exact.

I am debating on using a larger oil pan from a 3rd gen, hopefuly I can get one to fit.. that way I can attach the return line to the top of the pan so it doesn't sit in the 'sump'.

I agree that there should be a miniscule amount of water in the pan if any.. however, I did drain about 6 ounces out of my catch can the other night. So I'll see tomorrow when I drain the engine of oil again whether or not there is water in the system.

I am replacing the plugs tomorrow as well just to be safe. For any misfire situation that's normally the first step in the troubleshooting process if there aren't any other symptoms.

One more thing Richard, can you think of any reason why it did this in sub-freezing temps? It doesn't occur if the temp is above the freezing point.. it's very weird.

Is oil still ticker than ice?

Kinda worries me a tad with all the water.. Wasn't there a problem with coolant leaking into the rotor housing in some engines? ..

Is oil still ticker than ice?

Kinda worries me a tad with all the water.. Wasn't there a problem with coolant leaking into the rotor housing in some engines? ..

it's not coolant at all. I am 50/50 water/antifreeze right now.. it was 95% water/5% oil in my catch can.. that and my coolant level is fine.

Good luck philodox... but oopps :( this is not sounding like it is going to end well... plus it is potentially not a positive note for all us thinking this is (was) doable without a degree in both "turbo-dynamics" and auto mechanics or without a full time mechanic on staff.

Sniff, sniff :( again "fingers crossed for you"!

Good luck philodox... but oopps :( this is not sounding like it is going to end well... plus it is potentially not a positive note for all us thinking this is (was) doable without a degree in both "turbo-dynamics" and auto mechanics or without a full time mechanic on staff.

Sniff, sniff :( again "fingers crossed for you"!

I don't think it's anything major. My return line may just be clogged or kinked.. i'll see tomorrow. Hopefuly it's something that simple. If it is, it's not a ding against the Greddy Kit at all.

OK, that makes me happier about the water. It is not water in the pan. The reason you have water in the catch can is that it is distilled there. So it is a ok for it to be there. When the car sits in moist air the hot oil cools and gets condensation. when the oil heats up you boil the condensate out into vapor and the catch can gets it. That is working for you.

This leads us to the oil viscocity. Now there is no cure for this as you are using the thinest oil available except straight 5 wt and I wouldn't like to see you running that.

I think we have a real problem here Jon. I'll keep thinking on it but I really think the pan has to go. I don't like that at all, since my kit will require the same thing.

If I get the time next few days I'll call Aviaid and ask what they can do for us. I can promise them some volume that you can't.

Edit) On the temp or freezing as you say. The point of go/no go may not be exactly at freezing but somewhere down low. I mean it may be just fine at 32 F. And not at 25f. Or it may be a point higher or lower. In fact it is probably a gradual thing. doing it only slightly at some point and the geting worse as the temp drops.

OK, that makes me happier about the water. It is not water in the pan. The reason you have water in the catch can is that it is distilled there. So it is a ok for it to be there. When the car sits in moist air the hot oil cools and gets condensation. when the oil heats up you boil the condensate out into vapor and the catch can gets it. That is working for you.

This leads us to the oil viscocity. Now there is no cure for this as you are using the thinest oil available except straight 5 wt and I wouldn't like to see you running that.

I think we have a real problem here Jon. I'll keep thinking on it but I really think the pan has to go. I don't like that at all, since my kit will require the same thing.

If I get the time next few days I'll call Aviaid and ask what they can do for us. I can promise them some volume that you can't.

Or as my boss likes to call it "we have a challenge". I like to call a cow a cow, we got a f#&*@# problem here.

Where was the drain connection on the original Greddy oilpan that didn't come with the kit?

well i dont havve much to add since Richard is on the job!:) misfire is from the fouled plugs of course. you shouldnt have to replace them- just clean them. but i suppose if you already have the other ones.... either way you have a spare set.
i too think the water in the catch can is from condensation,

wasnt the greddy kit intially going to have a new oil pan? i know ive seen the pics- it was a nice looking piece. but you didnt get one with the kit- just that fitting to adapt the stock pan right? so if you need a pan you should be able to get the one Greddy has....

wasnt the greddy kit intially going to have a new oil pan?

I don't see it... But I thought so also.

Wait! I have a temp fix if nothing else. Chevy in fact all GM parts departments have a 110v heater that fits in a freezeplug hole. Now it probably will not fit your freeze plug hole but you get the picture. There are commercial heaters also. But they have less of a chance of fitting. There isn't any reason why a heater can't be fitted to the radiator in a tank. They do this on race cars both oil and water.

A quick thing could be made to fit in the hose someplace down low. It doesn't take much heat since you turn it on when you bring the car in at night, the water is already hot. The best thing of course is when its in the block. But the inlet hose isnt to far away.

This isn't directly heating the oil but they are in the same block. There may be an emersion heater available commercialy that could go in the pan. Usually they are long cigar looking things. I think there are also some thin ones. Look in your Graingers book. A thin one could go in sideways.


There is a realy trick one I understand on the new Corvette ZL-1 500 hp engine.
These are standard on Canadian cars.

wasnt the greddy kit intially going to have a new oil pan? i know ive seen the pics- it was a nice looking piece. but you didnt get one with the kit- just that fitting to adapt the stock pan right? so if you need a pan you should be able to get the one Greddy has....

Yeah, I believe the original kit was going to include a new oil pan. I think the current version of the kit was meant to be an inexpensive way to put a turbo kit on which also left room for expansion if the customer so desired. Hopefuly they will sell the oil pan as a separate peice in the near future.

But I still want to know why I have this problem only in temps below freezing... and then only during the first start of the day. I am going to speculate and say that the car has to be 100% cooled off in order for this problem to occur (being parked overnight for instance). It doesn't occur if the temp is above freezing or the car has been started and brought up to normal operating temps

easier solution Richard- a Garage and a space heater for the Garage. my garage is insulated and my furnace and water heater are in there. even with the temps down in the teens my garage never got below 45 degrees. and except once never got below 50.

oh you want to know why Jon- it must be something to do with the return line glogging but im guessing... couldnt you wrap the return line to insulate it?

How about a pump, and a dedicated sump just for the turbo?

edit oh yeah and a cooler :D

44 I think that will take a few more BTU's then a block heater. Using a proportional amount more energy (money).
If his house were built like yours he wouldn't be having the problem.
His house probably has that equipment in the basement.

There you go Jon, bring it into the basement at night. In winter only of course.

oh you want to know why Jon- it must be something to do with the return line glogging but im guessing... couldnt you wrap the return line to insulate it?

It's wrapped with heat shielding right now. I suppose I could put a thermal insulator to help keep the heat in and place that under the heat shield.. but the idea is to try to keep as much heat off the return line as possible during operation.

I am starting to think that this is an extreme cold weather issue only. Which is a good thing.

There you go Jon, bring it into the basement at night. In winter only of course.
Sweet! I'll put my pit crew on standby for disassembly and reassembly whenever I turn in for the night or head out during the day ;) hehe

ahh right Richard so its a problem with his house. going on the path of another thread- He should sue the builder of his place for not making a warm space for his car to sleep in!!:)

but the idea is to try to keep as much heat off the return line as possible during operation.




i thought of that right after i posted that thought.

Jon, you can park it in my garage :)

Jon, you can park it in my garage :)

hehe.. sure :p


any other turbo guru's out there care to comment on my current dilemma?

Or as my boss likes to call it "we have a challenge". I like to call a cow a cow, we got a f#&*@# problem here.

No, it's an opportunity. That's the term where I work.

i live in florida, and even my garage has a heater/AC in it!

Have the oil return go to the filler neck

For whats its worth, I live up north and had an oil pan heater put on my car and it started no problem when we had a cold spell of -30C t0 -40C (which I think is -22F to -40F) so Richards plan might work...

Have the oil return go to the filler neck
You'd have to add a pump to the return line.

How difficult would it be to tie it into the return line for the passenger side oil cooler. It would be at about the right level so backpressure would be minimal...and the oil would be cooler??

Anything from Greddy on the Map?

Few things, I have had no such problems as this, of course i think it may dip into the high 50's here at night (west coast :)). Also, i had a similar code for a misfire, but i cleared it, took the car out to the canyon roads and ran the piss out of it, and all is fine thus far. No more cel. I was curious, what is yoru catch can hooked up too? the oil neck and then into the can, then to what? It is meant to enter back into the engine i think, at least all the ones i have seen have 2 nipples on them. Picks/diagrams would be great. Definitely gonna keep an eye on this one though.

All the ones I've ever seen have two nipples also

I could joke about that comment but I won't.

I could joke about that comment but I won't.

It was a joke ;) but your the only one who got it.

ever seen total recall?

As my '8 is garage-kept, my input may not be valid. (Though, it is 5°F outside right now and 22°F in the garage.)
However, I don't have any form of condensation in my oil at all, ever. No milky dipstick (no jokes, please http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/smiles/tsk_tsk.gif ), no oil in the intake and no smoky starts.
However, I also have something Jon's car does not - a direct return to the intake from the oil filler neck like the OEM setup instead of a catch can.

Few things, I have had no such problems as this, of course i think it may dip into the high 50's here at night (west coast :)). Also, i had a similar code for a misfire, but i cleared it, took the car out to the canyon roads and ran the piss out of it, and all is fine thus far. No more cel. I was curious, what is yoru catch can hooked up too? the oil neck and then into the can, then to what? It is meant to enter back into the engine i think, at least all the ones i have seen have 2 nipples on them. Picks/diagrams would be great. Definitely gonna keep an eye on this one though.


Catch can is hooked up to the oil filler neck. It's just there to catch blow by gases and keep any liquid from blowing into your engine bay.. just too bad my BOV suddenly decided to switch jobs with the oil filler neck :p

Oh yeah, they didn't email me the map today. I'm going to make a nastygram phone call to bitch about it. Of course it'll have to be after I get home from my mech's place.

As my '8 is garage-kept, my input may not be valid. (Though, it is 5°F outside right now and 22°F in the garage.)
However, I don't have any form of condensation in my oil at all, ever. No milky dipstick (no jokes, please http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/smiles/tsk_tsk.gif ), no oil in the intake and no smoky starts.
However, I also have something Jon's car does not - a direct return to the intake from the oil filler neck like the OEM setup instead of a catch can.

Yup, I was wondering about why you had it setup like that Jeff.. my understanding is that having pressurized air in the oil system isn't exactly a good thing.

However, with all the testing Greddy did with this kit, there's got to be a reason for having the oil filler neck exposed to 'atmosphere'.

Greddy does have a listing on their Japanese page for the SE3P oil pan - it's part number 13543501. Doing a Google search only returned 2 results from Greddy Japan's webpage.

It does state that it has an oil return already plumbed into the pan, and it also has 600cc more capacity than the stocker. Japanese retail price is 32,500 yen, which is $313 in US dollars - again, that's retail price, street price should be mid-$200 range. As to where to get it, I'm not sure. Might have to call some Greddy places up - a shop with good Japanese connections could likely get it.

I've seen Greddy's oil pans in person, and they're VERY well made and designed. Also, I don't think an FD oil pan would work - the back of the oil pan is where the motor mounts attach, and it would require extensive fabrication. The pan doesn't have any oil drain inputs either - the turbos drain into the front cover and the rear iron.

Does the catch can plumb into the intake to the turbo? I would assume so.

BTW, the stuff you normally get in a catch can is pretty thin - doesn't seem like normal oil at all.

Good luck! I have a feeling you might be on the right track with it being primarily a VERY cold weather problem.

Dale

Catch can is hooked up to the oil filler neck. It's just there to catch blow by gases and keep any liquid from blowing into your engine bay.. just too bad my BOV suddenly decided to switch jobs with the oil filler neck :p

Yes but...

Does the catch can plumb into the intake to the turbo? I would assume so. No it doesn't and that is my point.

My oil line isn't under boost - it is under slight vacuum. Yours is not. Therefore, my crank case is constantly being vacuumed out of all the vapor and such - yours is witing to be pressurized out by blowby.

well i dont havve much to add since Richard is on the job!:) misfire is from the fouled plugs of course. you shouldnt have to replace them- just clean them. but i suppose if you already have the other ones.... either way you have a spare set.
i too think the water in the catch can is from condensation,

wasnt the greddy kit intially going to have a new oil pan? i know ive seen the pics- it was a nice looking piece. but you didnt get one with the kit- just that fitting to adapt the stock pan right? so if you need a pan you should be able to get the one Greddy has....
I saw a couple of places where the kit came with a pan also. i believe one of those places was on ebay

maybe shawrf1 could chime in here about the oil pan, his car has one.

and i think that the best way to go. no messing with heaters or long drain lines to the nether regions of the engine bay. just a nice clean pan. and the extra capacity wont hurt either.

Am I missing something? Why are you all talking about the pan?
The greddy kit comes with a fitting to use the oil drain plug hole as a return. You don't need the return fitting behind the drain plug like the Greddy oil pan. Or were you planning on using it for something else?

Well Guys/Gals,

I figured out what the problem was. It had NOTHING at all to do with the turbo. It was my stinking oil catch can. The inlet piping for the catch can that connects to the oil fill neck was getting clogged with frozen condensation. This ice would prevent the pressure buildup inside the oil system from being relieved. This excess oil pressure was causing the oil to seep through the seals of the turbo into my exhaust/intake. That's why I got all the smoke and rouch idle on the very first start of a sub-freezing morning. I've since re-routed how that feed line for the catch can goes so that any fluids it does can drain properly into the catch can. Shouldn't happen again.

Let this be a lesson learned at my expense. Make sure you install the catch can properly the first time ;)

Jeff or Jon, Do you have a picture of where you have the catch can connected to?

Marlton, we have NO problem :)

I'm breathing again - thanks.

Jeff or Jon, Do you have a picture of where you have the catch can connected to?
I took before after pics of the catch can.. give me about 30 minutes to eat some lunch and I'll post the pics.

Pic 1: Notice how the inlet piping dips before going into the catch can. This is where the moisture would build up and freeze. Which blocked off the line.

Pic 2: This is how it should look. Notice how there is no chance of moisture being trapped in the inlet hose.

Marlton, we have NO problem :)

I'm breathing again - thanks.

I'm crossing my fingers that nothing else goes wrong.

doh you had a trap in your line and it was freezing... good catch jon. at least it was a simple fix:)

doh you had a trap in your line and it was freezing... good catch jon. at least it was a simple fix:)

Yeah, I noticed it this morning when I started the car up. Glad it was a simple fix. Not sure what I would have had done if the actual turbo was leaky and I had to send it to GReddy for replacement.

I took before after pics of the catch can.. give me about 30 minutes to eat some lunch and I'll post the pics.

Pic 1: Notice how the inlet piping dips before going into the catch can. This is where the moisture would build up and freeze. Which blocked off the line.

Pic 2: This is how it should look. Notice how there is no chance of moisture being trapped in the inlet hose.

Thanks Jon. Glad you found your problem ;)

Has anyone else installed the Greddy Kit yet? Just wondering if you saw any issues that haven't been covered yet.

It looks like the price is going up. Everyone seems to be over 3550 for this kit now. (Hopup, Mazdatrix and RX8 Store)

Take a look at city-speed. I got mine there and they were $2900. Also Intense Motorsports (AZ) has it for $2999.

^^^ response to dave's post....vividracing is usually way overpriced and they have it for $3099.99. not bad.

i-m-racing.com has it for $2,999

these are just a few vendors....need to look in the right places grasshoppa

Oh thats good to hear. I didnt even think that Vivid had it up on their website yet. I have a 160 dollar credit with them too.. Hmm :)

I think most vendors are out of the units. Next wave is the late Feb.-early march timeframe. Another vendor that has a few units in stock is Ratary Extreme. They have it on special this month for $3295. I got mine at City Speed for $2929 + $90 shipping. They were super fast in delivering the product. I know they started with 3 kits but I think they are sold out until Feb.

I am with mazdamaniac on this one and that can shoudl then go into the intake side of the turbo. That is how mine will look once i get it. For now i have a small "breather filter" on the oil neck over the nipple. (yeah i know)

i think greddy is trying to set a price floor on the kits...someone mentioned greddy bitching at them for pricing that was too low. if you call these vendors, they may be able to work you a better deal.

i'd recommend hopupracing.com (~$2900). i bought my exhaust from them and they were great through the whole process.

Yeah, I think it was Jason over at the RX8 Store that said that. If you call them he may work with you on pricing. Actually Hopup racing is listing it at : $3565, but you should call and they can work something out with you. I got my gauges from them, and I agree with epitrochoid, they shipped super fast.

No milky dipstick (no jokes, please http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/smiles/tsk_tsk.gif ), .

Blowoff valve..... Milky dipstick.... two nipples..... This post has gone down the toilet!
:)

Next thing you know, someone is going to talk about where they've been "laying pipe" for the turbo system.

Well... it's confirmed... 7deg F cold startup today with zero issues. Thank goodness.. I had dreams last night about a puff of exhaust smoke chasing me all over town. :eek:

Just make sure that puff of smoke does not have little red lights in it... :rolleyes:

Can this be used on an AT?

Can this be used on an AT?

No

Can this be used on an AT?

you can make it work. take it to PFS.

WOW. Now im really impressed. This is the first time since you guys have gotten boosted that ive gone to sleep and woken up and there were NO NEW POSTS! :eek: By the way, congrats on you guys great accomplishments. Lots of prestige being the guinea pigs!

^ Because of rotten weather. Everyone is off the road.

^ Because of rotten weather. Everyone is off the road.

Yeah, where I live another inch of snow fell last night.. the only bright side is I can head to the parking lot down the road and practice my "fishtail" recoveries ;)

We got an inch of snow with a layer of ice below it and above it.
Hard enough to walk let alone drive.

location, location, location. not boosted, but 76deg right now.

beers

^ I can do without all the year-long rain. Thanks anyway.

Now Arizona is another story...

^ I can do without all the year-long rain. Thanks anyway.

Now Arizona is another story...

Jeff you're a mind reader.. I was thinking of moving out that way after I am finished getting the rest of my pilot certs.

Year-long rain? You must be confusing FL with Seattle. We just get hurricanes.

jds

^ I can do without all the year-long rain. Thanks anyway.

Now Arizona is another story...

Jeff you're a mind reader.. I was thinking of moving out that way after I am finished getting the rest of my pilot certs.
Niki and I are looking to move to either Arizona or Nevada this year or next.

Year-long rain? You must be confusing FL with Seattle. We just get hurricanes.

jds


gotta love those hurricanes...hehe ;)

Year-long rain? You must be confusing FL with Seattle. We just get hurricanes.

jds
And everyday, at some point (usually at sunset) it rains. Year 'round. Don't deny it.:D

One of the main things I hate about this area is the rainfall. Central Florida is worse.

Just got back to Nebraska from my vacation house in Arizona -- wished I had my 8 there the whole time -- what fun could have been had :D Especially knowing my turbo was being installed while I was there -- I will pick her up tomorrow if the weather here cooperates. You can complain about rain -- but we have ice and snow :mad:

Any ruff numbers as far as 0-60 and 1/4 mile?? I am wondering if any Houston 8's have done this yet.. I guess we will see on the Feb meet...Punishr??

Nat

Admittedly, I'm a bit farther south...but generally all winter is our dry season. More or less :D

jds

And everyday, at some point (usually at sunset) it rains. Year 'round. Don't deny it.:D

One of the main things I hate about this area is the rainfall. Central Florida is worse.

you can make it work. take it to PFS.


And that is?

*bear with me, I'm a noob
:cool:

:p

Peter Farrell Supercars....

Peter Farrell Supercars....
You know - the worlds leading destroyer of rotary engines....

You know - the worlds leading destroyer of rotary engines....


Man that is not too nice. Well if you do not like PFS try www.turboeast.com This is also another great rotary tuner shop. PFS has tuned 600-700 hp rotarys so getting to that level I guess you wll break a few along the way.

At least it'll be 45F on wednesday for the fudd's meet. Woo-woo!

Man that is not too nice. Well if you do not like PFS try www.turboeast.com (http://www.turboeast.com) This is also another great rotary tuner shop. PFS has tuned 600-700 hp rotarys so getting to that level I guess you wll break a few along the way. It nothing personal Ryan - but I think you know the same people. PFS customers that spent twice their budget to have their car out of commission for months beyond schedule, only to pop their motor for one reason or another shortly after taking delivery. Those cars were fast for a few weeks, though.

At least it'll be 45F on wednesday for the fudd's meet. Woo-woo!
Which Fudd's meet? I thought that was on Saturday? Or are you talking MSCW?

MSCW :) Sat was the japanese restaurant place.

It nothing personal Ryan - but I think you know the same people. PFS customers that spent twice their budget to have their car out of commission for months beyond schedule, only to pop their motor for one reason or another shortly after taking delivery. Those cars were fast for a few weeks, though.

Jeff, I dont want to start he said or she said on this thread or any for that fact. I can assure you that Ray Wilson is the TOP tuner in the east. I have seen him tune many RX-7's. I will be getting my car tuned by him and I have full trust in Ray. Peter is now out! It is owned and operated by Ray and Ray only. So put the John Duff storys under the bridge and wait to see what comes out of his shop. I think you will be surprised at what is too come.


-Ryan
Not a surmon just a reminder ;)

Okay children.. I don't want my thread to get locked.. so if you want to play rough, please take it to PM's :cool:

I can assure you that Ray Wilson is the TOP tuner in the east. I have seen him tune many RX-7's. I will be getting my car tuned by him and I have full trust in Ray. Peter is now out! It is owned and operated by Ray and Ray only. So put the John Duff storys under the bridge and wait to see what comes out of his shop. I think you will be surprised at what is too come.

In that case, I am excited to see what will happen. I didn't realize the sale of the shop was such a shake-up. That should be cool.

Okay children.. I don't want my thread to get locked.. so if you want to play rough, please take it to PM's :cool:
I think we are playing nice!

In that case, I am excited to see what will happen. I didn't realize the sale of the shop was such a shake-up. That should be cool.


I think we are playing nice!


Cool :)

Also I think we are playing nice. ;)

Speaking of fishtails.. I did one on purpose to try to recover and failed pretty badly. The engine stalled and I got a CEL. Wierd. I bet the code was "DAD001". Dumb a$$ Driver 001.

Everything is about the throttle. Your "recovery" probably included the release of the throttle or even the application of brakes.
No matter how deep you are in a spin, the recovery always includes the application of throttle. It seems counter-intuitive, but if you are rotating, to recover you hit the gas, not the brakes.

Generally the best way to "fishtail" while moving is to disengage the clutch, stomp on the gas and re-engage the clutch. As the wheels start to spin, you can add a bit of steering to unsettle the car and then modulate the direction of the car with the gas pedal only.

you right

Looks like prices are dropping, I ordered mine for U$3,050.00 delivered and here is another vendor on Ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=7949624019&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Eh, so I paid 3290 for mine.. but hell, someone had to be the guinea pig right?

Looks like prices are dropping, I ordered mine for U$3,050.00 delivered and here is another vendor on Ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=7949624019&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Hey that ad says "Oilpan" What's up with that?