One of my classmates was in Iraq last year and shot this video. He showed me today and I couldnt believe it. He's the one actually taping the whole thing.

Its crazy, once the insurgents try to attack them the two Hummers in front, take off and then you see our Troops shooting back while on the move. Its just crazy! He showed me pictures of the trucks afterwards.

Lets just say their lucky their trucks were bullet proof because they were getting shot at with AK's.

http://nova.umuc.edu/~ct386g06/Attacks.html

Take a look at the clip he gave me earlier! http://nova.umuc.edu/~ct386g06/Ambush%20Action.wmv

That is some intense stuff. Thanks for posting that.

wow, in all honesty I would SHIT MY PANTS, if I was in one of the SUvs and saw 2 bombs hit the road right in front of me, what was that 6 feet in front of them?

I could show you a video of an Attack Helicopter firing at night from a mile away at Iraqi troops during the invasion. Shows you how powerful the Helo machine guns are.

I could show you a video of an Attack Helicopter firing at night from a mile away at Iraqi troops during the invasion. Shows you how powerful the Helo machine guns are.

Please do.

I keep trying to copy it on here but it will not copy for some reason. I use the right click on the mouse and it has the paste option, I use that and it will not copy onto here. Its a Mediaplay complete with sound, machine gun noise and troops getting hammered. Any suggestions? I even tried to PM rickrookie but it will not work there either. I know I can email it as I already have.

It's probably too big of a file. You need to get someone to host it for you. Any volunteers?

I think I know what video your talking about. Our toops fired on two guys by a big gun, while the other one hides under the truck but then we see him and blow him up too. That gun on those Apache's are freaking crazy! Very Powerful!

I think I know what video your talking about. Our toops fired on two guys by a big gun, while the other one hides under the truck but then we see him and blow him up too. That gun on those Apache's are freaking crazy! Very Powerful!


Yes that's video. The one I have a guy gets out of a small truck and runs with and RPG out to a field and lays it down as if he is hiding it for someone to pick up later and use. Not sure, then the guy runs back to the truck and then seems to walk back to the field again. Kind of crazy. There are two trucks involved. The guy that went back to check on the RPG before he got there he is blown away, then the gun shifts to the trucks and they seen a guy come out of the cab and crawls under the front. They fire at the truck and the bullets go through the front hood and gets the guy under the front. Tires blow up and such. Then the gun goes and destroys the other truck. Sounds like the same video. I can email it to someone but I can't figure how to post it on here is all.

That one has already been posted on here.

WOw, thanks for posting...GOD BE with them in Iraq...that is just so crazy!

GOsh...

Its funny that they got americans SUVS there lol. WOnder how much it costs to bring one over their.

But nice find on the video pretty cool!

Dont think for a minute that those are ordinary SUV's.

Dont think for a minute that those are ordinary SUV's.
Well obviously it looked like that bullet was stopped by the window.

Those SUVs have bullet proof tires (hey and RX idea?) and bullet proof windows and some hidden armor. They are gas hogs too but have a bigger engine. Wasn't sure if the Hummers were firing into the streets or the sidewalks or shooting high. Heard the noise and see the gun smoke but thats it.

Those SUVs have bullet proof tires (hey and RX idea?) and bullet proof windows and some hidden armor. They are gas hogs too but have a bigger engine. Wasn't sure if the Hummers were firing into the streets or the sidewalks or shooting high. Heard the noise and see the gun smoke but thats it.
You had sound in yours? I don't....

From what I hear the bottoms of the vehicles aren't anything proof, one reason why the terrorists tried to detonate the bombs on the road like that.

Whoah. Unbelievable video. Thank you for posting.

do you have any more videos ?????

I dont have any more videos, that was on of my classmates at school. But heres the video of the Apache guns blasting some of these punks that we were talking about on page one. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/helicopterkills.mpg May take a little bit to load but link does work, just tried it myself.

Were the two explosions that started the ambush from RPG rounds?

There is a great video piece here by the BBC on some of the action in Falujah:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/news_web/video/40566000/bb/40566639_bb_16x9.asx


Its long about 17 mins.

I managed to save it using streambox vcr if anyone else wants to try it.

Great video.

And keep it in mind the next time some media whore decides to whine about 'holy places' or poor injured terrorists.

Snipers in Mosque minaretes, guys pretending to surrender and then opening fire, yup this is the stuff these guys are up against over there.

One of my classmates was in Iraq last year and shot this video. He showed me today and I couldnt believe it. He's the one actually taping the whole thing. I saw this video probably 1-2 months ago, on a site similar to ebaum's (maybe it was ebaum's, can't recall). Your friend didn't waste any time plastering it all over the internet. :)

There is a great video piece here by the BBC on some of the action in Falujah:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/news_web/video/40566000/bb/40566639_bb_16x9.asx


Its long about 17 mins.

I managed to save it using streambox vcr if anyone else wants to try it.

Great video.

And keep it in mind the next time some media whore decides to whine about 'holy places' or poor injured terrorists.

Snipers in Mosque minaretes, guys pretending to surrender and then opening fire, yup this is the stuff these guys are up against over there.Too bad we know that the fall of Fallujah did little to slow the insurgetns. I wish this was going to lead to a different outcome but that is the nature of a holy war. And we jumped right into the middle of it without giving a second thought to what it would mean to the brave soldiers just doing their job. You do realize that these troops are doing all this without the wartime benefits they deserve, right? Our government is calling this a war to the public and officially they are calling it a police action. Bush can take this war and shove it up his ass!

For those of you who have the yellow magnetic ribbons on your cars I just want to give you this little bit of information... they are made in China (the same place that most of the AK47s are made that are shooting up our soldiers). And none of the money is going to benefit our troops it is all for profit. And most of the folks I have talked to who have those on their vehicles (usually an SUV) don't even have a close family member over there. All this support for a war that they aren't even risking anything for. Interesting.

I don't see anything wrong with the yellow ribbons if that is what folks want to do. Lots of companies profit off of emotion and its done with ballgames, football and hockey. Same sort of business folks.

ggreen29 : Those explosions in the video were grenades not RPG. RPGs are a larger explosion. Interesting video, has lots of tactic info going on there. Can't tell but it looks like the Hummers up front are doing the return fire, not sure the SUV is returning fire. If I were in an SUV I would want to be near the Hummers too because that's all the protection you are getting. I bet those in Hummers radioed they were shot at too and reinforcements are on way. I imagine these pesky insurgents are all along routes looking for targets of opportunity.

93rd, you are correct the Mil medical care is not set up to handle all the wounded. The system appears overloaded and yes, they are not getting proper care.

"93rd" Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. Your basically stating that the war is for nothing. That is totally wrong! But its not wrong to people like you because all you care about is YOU. When's the last time there wasn't life lost for saving life? NEVER but the outcome is only what your seeing on TV, its embedded in your mind already. I have two of my best friends over there right now. One in Kuwait and one right in the middle of Baghdad. They tell me a whole another story then we as Americans see on our TV's here in the USA. He basically told me while he was here on break for Thanksgiving that 95% of those people over there love us and the 5% that our media likes to show hate us because of our freedom. The same freedom that they want to express but it happens to be in a bad manor. But hey I'm not putting even a slight dent in someone's head such as you. But people like you never think, "what if I was in their shoes". What if my family was slaughtered, gassed, tortured right in front of my very eyes. For something as simple as disagreeing with someone! We as American need to stop thinking, me me me me all of the time and think about people that have it much worse than us. But for some strange reason your whole out look on this war would be very different if you were an Iraqi and you daughter was raped, your uncle was tortured and your dad was shot dead right in front of you. But hey your NOT!!!!!!

I was in Iraq from April '03 until July '04. Was there as a civilian doing satellite communications for the State Dept and OSS. Spend the majority of my time in the Green Zone working out of the CPA. We'd get rocket/mortar attacks about every 2 or 3 days. Was kind of unnerving for the first 2 or 3 months, then you get used to it. Not much you can do about indirect fire except react after the fact. I remember one time during lunch 3 mortar rounds actually hit the CPA building that I was eating in. Took some nice sized chunks out of the roof... anyhow... I feel for the guys over there since I've experienced it myself.

Got home on July 12th. Took me about 3 months not to duck whenever I heard a loud bang or clank.. Was eating in a TGI Fridays one night when someone dropped a bunch of dishes in the kitchen. I was walking toward the bathroom when it happend and I hit the deck.. kind of embarrasing, but anyhow.. I hate talking about this stuff. enjoy fellas.. time to take a long ride in my 8 to unwind..

"93rd" Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. Your basically stating that the war is for nothing. That is totally wrong! But its not wrong to people like you because all you care about is YOU. When's the last time there wasn't life lost for saving life? NEVER but the outcome is only what your seeing on TV, its embedded in your mind already. I have two of my best friends over there right now. One in Kuwait and one right in the middle of Baghdad. They tell me a whole another story then we as Americans see on our TV's here in the USA. He basically told me while he was here on break for Thanksgiving that 95% of those people over there love us and the 5% that our media likes to show hate us because of our freedom. But people like you never think, "what if I was in their shoes". What if my family was slaughtered, gassed, tortured right in front of my very eyes. For something as simple as disagreeing with someone! We as American need to stop thinking, me me me me all of the time and think about people that have it much worse than us. But for some strange reason your whole out look on this war would be very different if you were an Iraqi and you daughter was raped, your uncle was tortured and your dad was shot dead right in front of you. But hey your NOT!!!!!!

Do you know what you're talking about? The Pentagon and DOD released a report saying the terrorists do not hate us for our freedom. I've seen plenty of rescues on TV where a person's life was saved without losing another one. I know soldiers who have been in Iraq as well. Have you ever wondered what you would feel like if you were in the shoes of an Iraqi civilian who had their civilian family tortured, daughter raped, and dad shot dead right in front of you all by American soldiers (not to mention permenantly detained) for doing nothing but being in the wrong spot at the wrong time? We've now killed more civilians than Saddam, and more than 4 times as many civilians that died in 9/11. You could bring this on over into the Political Discussion Thread if you wished.

philodox: I had the same reaction after being in Vietnam as a combat soldier. It took me years to go near a forrest. Everytime I did I instantly kept an eye on the top of trees as if snipers would be there. Once when coming home one day in Baltimore on a bus, I was walking down the street in the city and this kid popped out on me from behind a parked car with a cap gun. He fired it at me laughing, I was already down on the sidewalk reaching for my rifle which was not there!! That's the sort of instant reaction we got used too. Yes we were mortared too and yes we got used to it too. We would listen for the sound coming out of the enemy tube and go after them with a platoon at night. Most of the time we found the shell casings or extra mortars which we destroyed. I would be very suspect of any anything in Iraq. These insurgents are trying everything in the book they can think of. Concering RPGs. Its difficult to fire one of those hitting a target. They sort of go a bit wild when fired. Sometimes somene can by very good with it but for the most part they are not. Our's is more accurate, deadly accurate.

Interesting discussions on here. There are those who don't agree with the war over there but we are in it now, and we will finish it and so we should give our support to those men and women over there.

"Rotarian" Obviously YOU have no idea what your talking about and then you have the audacity to say we have killed more than Saddam has? Do you know how many people he killed just with the Mustard Gas bombs? Answer that please? And yes we can turn this into a Political Discussion if need, tho Politics is a dangerous and dirty game, I know my fair part!

Do you know what you're talking about? The Pentagon and DOD released a report saying the terrorists do not hate us for our freedom. I've seen plenty of rescues on TV where a person's life was saved without losing another one. I know soldiers who have been in Iraq as well. Have you ever wondered what you would feel like if you were in the shoes of an Iraqi civilian who had their civilian family tortured, daughter raped, and dad shot dead right in front of you all by American soldiers (not to mention permenantly detained) for doing nothing but being in the wrong spot at the wrong time? We've now killed more civilians than Saddam, and more than 4 times as many civilians that died in 9/11. You could bring this on over into the Political Discussion Thread if you wished.


Rotarian_SC: I don't know who you are, sometimes I wonder if you are a US citizen by the comments made at times. That's a pretty crazy allocation made right there. Give one example where American soldiers raped someone's daughter in front of family members and shot the dad dead. There is no comparison what so ever made with an American solider and a terrorist in Iraq. Totally different cultures to start with. Would you say those words to a mom or wife who just lost our husband there and say he raped women in front of family members in Iraq and killed her dad too?

I heard this same allocations against Vietnam vets too. You know what? It was false but the media and at times John Kerry did too painted the Vietnam vet just like what you said in your post on Iraq. If this has happened then its isolated and not the total picture for all the soldiers there.

"93rd" Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. Your basically stating that the war is for nothing. That is totally wrong! But its not wrong to people like you because all you care about is YOU. When's the last time there wasn't life lost for saving life? NEVER but the outcome is only what your seeing on TV, its embedded in your mind already. I have two of my best friends over there right now. One in Kuwait and one right in the middle of Baghdad. They tell me a whole another story then we as Americans see on our TV's here in the USA. He basically told me while he was here on break for Thanksgiving that 95% of those people over there love us and the 5% that our media likes to show hate us because of our freedom. The same freedom that they want to express but it happens to be in a bad manor. But hey I'm not putting even a slight dent in someone's head such as you. But people like you never think, "what if I was in their shoes". What if my family was slaughtered, gassed, tortured right in front of my very eyes. For something as simple as disagreeing with someone! We as American need to stop thinking, me me me me all of the time and think about people that have it much worse than us. But for some strange reason your whole out look on this war would be very different if you were an Iraqi and you daughter was raped, your uncle was tortured and your dad was shot dead right in front of you. But hey your NOT!!!!!!I have to say that you know the least on here about me and my family. My grandfather Lt. General (that's 3 stars in case you didn't know) DeBolt served the Air Force (for more years than you have been alive I'm sure) my other Grandfather was a Corbin in the Navy during WWII, my father served in the Air Force, I have a brother in the Army and another in the Coast Guard. I am a 13th generation American from the Mayflower (how many of you can say that?). I have two friends working for an Iraqi owned security company who work outside of the Green Zone (they use Kurdish security manpower). So take into account that it isn't ME, as you put it, that I am worried about. I am worried about my brother who is on the waiting list to go over there. So take a look at the Political Discussion thread a bit before you tell me what I don't know. Talking out of your ass isn't going to get you anywhere with me.

The average Iraqi doesn't want our type of Freedom but instead want there own. See they don't want to seperate religion from their government as we have in our country. Instead they want their religion to rule their government and that's leading to a civil war. But hey I get ahead of myself. I have heard accounts from all sorts of people who have been to Iraq both troops and from civillians.

I guess that all the problems associated with a lack of security that we created (you know the murders, rapes and looting) are not of coincidence? Iraq was a much safer country before we stepped in. Albeit Saddam was a very bad man but who does Iraq have to blame for his dictatorship... oh yeah that was the US. Did you forget about that too? If you don't know research it. We wanted a secular government in Iraq and that leader was Saddam, that's right we chose him. Much like we chose Noriega, Qaddafi, the Taliban and others to support with money and weapons.

So if you really want to support our troops start a fund for armor on our military vehicles, do something that causes you real sacrifice to support them like giving up your income tax return with a note to the IRS that robbing from troop funding to get $450 at the end of the year (average return for a married couple) is a waste of American lives, or better yet start campaigning to reverse the tax cut Bushey has guaranteed all the richest people in this country who need that cheap Iraqi oil, maybe even better yet how about showing the government that lying to us about the reasons for being there in the first place is f'ing ridiculous and we won't put up with not... not even in the name of banning gay marriage! How about the biggest tragedy which is the fact that our troops over there are in a war but aren't being extended wartime benefits? Do you even understand what that means? Our government isn't supporting the families of our troops who are making the biggest sacrifice in this war. Will you help my sister-in-law send my niece to college if my brother loses his life over there? How about just buying school supplies and clothes? But that is just one kid out of thousands. How about all the reservists who made much more money at their civillian jobs but are at war and their spouses are forced to filel bankruptcy because they can't meet their obligations? You really need to spend more time understanding the nature of the beast rather than trying to silence the voice of the victims.

This is exactly what I was doing during my tour over there. I was in transport and was in al nasiriyah when we went in with jessica lynch. I'm in the marines though, so we didn't have any losses like their unit, but I was there again when we went to go pull them out of that city.

By the way, our hummers and military vehicles are NOT bullet proof. We have to put sandbags in side them to make them bullet proof....

philodox: I had the same reaction after being in Vietnam as a combat soldier. It took me years to go near a forrest. Everytime I did I instantly kept an eye on the top of trees as if snipers would be there. Once when coming home one day in Baltimore on a bus, I was walking down the street in the city and this kid popped out on me from behind a parked car with a cap gun. He fired it at me laughing, I was already down on the sidewalk reaching for my rifle which was not there!! That's the sort of instant reaction we got used too. Yes we were mortared too and yes we got used to it too. We would listen for the sound coming out of the enemy tube and go after them with a platoon at night. Most of the time we found the shell casings or extra mortars which we destroyed. I would be very suspect of any anything in Iraq. These insurgents are trying everything in the book they can think of. Concering RPGs. Its difficult to fire one of those hitting a target. They sort of go a bit wild when fired. Sometimes somene can by very good with it but for the most part they are not. Our's is more accurate, deadly accurate.

Interesting discussions on here. There are those who don't agree with the war over there but we are in it now, and we will finish it and so we should give our support to those men and women over there.

Amen brother, I was in the Army as an infantryman for 7 years. It's funny that the first combat zone I go to is as a civilian. Luckily while I there in the green zone I was armed. But I had to 'aquire' my own weapon. Which wasn't too difficult. We mostly got hit with those 109mm Brazilian Rockets. You don't hear them coming until the very loud "whoosh' as they go overhead. You only get a fraction of a second to react. The main helo pad was about 150m from our living trailers. The insurgents had their guns zero'd in on it. The funny thing was that during my time in the green zone there was something like 45 rounds that landed inside the helo pad area, but not once was any equipment damaged, just buildings.. we were lucky.

Another time the Iraqi national soccer team won a big match against another Mid-East Team. Right after the game finished, all you could see across the city was red tracer rounds. Scared the shit out of all of us, it's quite a site to see in person. Granted, it wasn't aimed at us, but those bullets have to fall somewhere. We had 1/4 sheet metal on top of our trailers, and you could occasionaly hear the 'ping' of the rounds falling down and hitting them. Before they put that sheet metal up there, during the day you could see light coming into the trailers from where bullets had 'dropped' out of the sky and landed there... that was kind of unnerving as well.. anyhow, back to football

Rotarian_SC: I don't know who you are, sometimes I wonder if you are a US citizen by the comments made at times. That's a pretty crazy allocation made right there. Give one example where American soldiers raped someone's daughter in front of family members and shot the dad dead. There is no comparison what so ever made with an American solider and a terrorist in Iraq. Totally different cultures to start with. Would you say those words to a mom or wife who just lost our husband there and say he raped women in front of family members in Iraq and killed her dad too?

I heard this same allocations against Vietnam vets too. You know what? It was false but the media and at times John Kerry did too painted the Vietnam vet just like what you said in your post on Iraq. If this has happened then its isolated and not the total picture for all the soldiers there.

I never claimed it has happened all at once, and the incidents if they occured would probably be isolated and only done by a very small number of troops. However we have tortured and shot people in front of their family members, some guy just recieved a dishonorable discharage and some prison time for shooting someone. I am sure at least one civilian has seen his father killed. I have tact when speaking to people, I probably wouldn't talk to her in the first place (assuming the allegations are true) because there wouldn't be much I could say except I was sorry for her. However does talking about atrocities make them any worse, would you prefer a hush to be kept around them? Is it so much worse to put yourself in the shoes of an Iraqi man who had his family killed by the US than one whose family was killed by Saddam?

"Rotarian" Obviously YOU have no idea what your talking about and then you have the audacity to say we have killed more than Saddam has? Do you know how many people he killed just with the Mustard Gas bombs? Answer that please? And yes we can turn this into a Political Discussion if need, tho Politics is a dangerous and dirty game, I know my fair part!

Ok, I'll throw some mud. Wasn't there something about you owning a Crossfire, trading your 8 for one or something like that came up before? ;)

Would you like to refute the Pentagon? Is your judgement better than theirs over this situation? You seem to reject the notion of trying to think like Iraqis and terrorists so I would guess not. Go take a look at the Political Discussion Thread where this was debated already. They want freedom from US control, and that's why they're fighting. Some have even refused to vote with US troops in Iraq. Many counts of gassings have been sensationalized by the PR firm Hill & Knowlton, but I generally hear in the 10,000s. Exact bodycount (everyone brought to a coroner) is around 17k now for civilians last I checked with the estimated civilian fatalities at around 100,000.

Ok, I'll throw some mud. Wasn't there something about you owning a Crossfire, trading your 8 for one or something like that came up before? ;)

Would you like to refute the Pentagon? Is your judgement better than theirs over this situation? You seem to reject the notion of trying to think like Iraqis and terrorists so I would guess not. Go take a look at the Political Discussion Thread where this was debated already. They want freedom from US control, and that's why they're fighting. Some have even refused to vote with US troops in Iraq. Many counts of gassings have been sensationalized by the PR firm Hill & Knowlton, but I generally hear in the 10,000s. Exact bodycount (everyone brought to a coroner) is around 17k now for civilians last I checked with the estimated civilian fatalities at around 100,000.I will say too that Rotarian RC is being quite conservative because the total estimated death toll in Iraq since we started the bombings, invasion, and occupancy of Iraq at being closer to 300,000 people. Mind you some of these were military, terrorist, and civillians so there is no account for an exact number but regardless that's 300,000 dead in Iraq with the majority being civillian.

That f'in crazy man! Great vid. The vid of the helo's can be found on either ebaumsworld or bored.com i believe it is.

I could show you a video of an Attack Helicopter firing at night from a mile away at Iraqi troops during the invasion. Shows you how powerful the Helo machine guns are.

A have a friend who flies those choppers in Iraq. He said they call those Iraqi human targets "crispies", I guess because of the way they fry once they're hit with missiles. It was surreal hearing him talk about it--he's so used to killing people on a daily basis that it doesn't phase him.

Say what you will about why this US is in Iraq and how the Iraqi people don't deserve it. On July 5th of this year I saw 2 Iraqi childred ride up to an African American Female Marine on a motor scooter. One doused her with gasoline while the other threw a match and lite her on fire. No that didn't make the papers. None of the coalition people nearby would shoot at those kids who must have been 7 or 8 years old. You bet your ass that it would have made the CNN headlines if the coalition shot those kids in return for that. My friends and family that ask me about what it was like overthere get shell shocked when I tell them that. 90% of the things you hear in the news is bullshit, then again.. 90% of the things that happen there don't make the news.. so unless you've actively participated in the campaign, hold your opinions to yourselves since you don't know what is really going on.

P.S. this isn't directed any anyone in particular, I'm just ranting

Oh man where to start? I cant believe how many blind, ignorant people there are in this world. "Rotaian" You make a statement about our troops killing more innocent people than Saddam and his regime did, then turn around and bring up a crossfire. That I actually think was your buddy "RX8lover", who made my screen name on the crossfire forum and then tries to bring it on me. Your funny, shows where you go when proven wrong! Then you say "They" want freedom from US Control. Who's they? The insurgents? Please point to a web site that is actually official and shows anything about our troops killing more innocent people than Saddam did in the Gas attacks? Rotaian and "93rd" Obviously know very little about war. 3 Main Things That Are Always Going To Happen In War: Loss of US Troops, Loss of Enemy's, and sad but Loss of Innocents's. It will always be and there's nothing you can do about it. But hey you both must think like Kerry. You want try and talk to terrorist and insurgents. Give in to their every demand. Can't remember the last time anyone has been successful with that.

Heres a little on the Gas Attacks: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/18714.htm

"93rd" Who's does Iraq have to blame for the problem of Saddam and his now dead sons? The US? Are you freaking nuts? Last I knew Saddam put himself into power? Then had his friends taken out and shot dead in back of the building that same night. Sit here and say were to blame. Oh but you'll come back and say who supplied him with the gas. WE DID! But does that give him the right to kill all those people? We have weapons in our every day life but do we go out and kill people. Some do but most don't! It's not about who supplies you with the weapons but why was he such a evil dictator?

From the way you right we can all see that you don't like Bush. That's fine but people fought for your freedom to speak the way you do now, but on the other hand if you were in Iraq and talked about Saddam while he was president you wouldn't dare say that because you would be dead! Kerry's the one that voted against sending our troops armor that is needed just a couple months ago. Go talk to him and ask him why he did such a thing! I dare you say to me that I should try understanding. I proved my point in my last remark, it's all about you you you you you!!!! Too many people in this country are too selfish and care about no one! Everybody who's in the Army knows what they are signing into when that put that signature on that paper. You know once you sign your life will be at risk if called to war.

Finally one major question that I need you to answer and if you can't answer it, please do not respond to my post any longer. Because if you can't answer it, I will no longer respond to your ignorance.

WHO WAS HEAD OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE THAT GAVE PRESIDENT BUSH THE INFORMATION ON GOING TO WAR WITH IRAQ?

Oh man where to start? I cant believe how many blind, ignorant people there are in this world. "Rotaian" You make a statement about our troops killing more innocent people than Saddam and his regime did, then turn around and bring up a crossfire. That I actually think was your buddy "RX8lover", who made my screen name on the crossfire forum and then tries to bring it on me. Your funny, shows where you go when proven wrong! Then you say "They" want freedom from US Control. Who's they? The insurgents? Please point to a web site that is actually official and shows anything about our troops killing more innocent people than Saddam did in the Gas attacks? Rotaian and "93rd" Obviously know very little about war. 3 Main Things That Are Always Going To Happen In War: Loss of US Troops, Loss of Enemy's, and sad but Loss of Innocents's. It will always be and there's nothing you can do about it. But hey you both must think like Kerry. You want try and talk to terrorist and insurgents. Give in to their every demand. Can't remember the last time anyone has been successful with that.

Kerry's the one that voted against sending our troops armor that is needed just a couple months ago. Go talk to him and ask him why he did such a thing! I dare you say to me that I should try understanding. I proved my point in my last remark, it's all about you you you you you!!!! Too many people in this country are too selfish and care about no one!

You said you could handle the dirtyness of politics so I just through out an adhomiem attack sarcastically followed by a wink.

Here are links, but they took a bit of digging to find.

The 100,000 based on a Johns Hopkins related study:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996596

The ~17,000 comes from
www.iraqbodycount.net

The Pentagon study which you with your vast knowledge and person experience in Iraq refute :rolleyes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6577524/

The Middle East, especially terrorists, want to be free from US control.

About war, don't you find it funny that going with the innocent civilian casualties as a byproduct has produce more death than terrorist targeted civilian attacks?

Continuing with your bad assumptions from the fight for freedom in Iraq, you assume I am into negotiation. Not true, I am for a UN supported offensive or better yet undermining their culture.

Do you know how legislation votes work? Things aren't legislated one at a time, there are many riders. In fact Kerry was for raising taxes, but I guess the people who voted against him were too unselfish for that. He sponsored a bill which would make us go to war but on a revised fiscal system that would allow troops body armor by eliminating the Bush tax cuts, which of course the Reps. didn't pass. I guess he was so selfish he wanted to raise taxes to fund body armor but the unselfish people stopped him once again :rolleyes:

Again, why don't you bring this kind of debate into the Political Discussion Thread where it belongs?

guys...please stop the arguing.

Rotarian SC Do you know how legislation votes work? Things aren't legislated one at a time, there are many riders. In fact Kerry was for raising taxes, but I guess the people who voted against him were too unselfish for that. He sponsored a bill which would make us go to war but on a revised fiscal system that would allow troops body armor by eliminating the Bush tax cuts, which of course the Reps. didn't pass. I guess he was so selfish he wanted to raise taxes to fund body armor but the unselfish people stopped him once again :rolleyes:

Again, why don't you bring this kind of debate into the Political Discussion Thread where it belongs?[/QUOTE]

I thought for sure Kerry voted against body armor. Everyone said that during the campaign. The facts appear to put a spin on it by saying Kerry was for body armor. Anyway, without digging out news reports, Kerry's voting record and other sources, it was to my knowledge that Kerry voted against a bill that included body armor. The body armor that US troops needed in Iraq.

He did vote against sending armor for our troops that were already in war. As for the UN, I do believe the UN was in Iraq while Saddam was in power but he bull crapped them the whole time. Telling them where they could and couldn't go and at what times they were aloud to go.

You say Kerry wanted to raise our taxes? But wasn't his whole campaign about lowering taxes for the middle class? In fact Mr. Kerry thinks that if you make $200,000 below your middle class. HA Now that's funny, man doesn't even know what middle class is and wanted to run this country. Last I checked middle class was no where near that number.

Another thing you also have to look at, Bush would allow our troops armor, tax cuts or not!!!!
You also have to understand the Muslim people don't like us because were free people, they don't like us because of how we live. Those are two different things.

You must not even read your own articles, did you read that those number consist of women, men, and children that were ALSO sick, in accidents and had natural causes. How could you even believe that article?

Read the bottom of this article, I think its a little more accurate! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6665768/

I'm still waiting for a response to my other question about the Intelligence Committee. :confused:

Sorry "Elara" I only made this thread to show the link of my friend in Iraq when some people decided to throw their 2 cents in and then try to back it with false ignorant information.

I'm only responding from now on if its about the video I posted!

If you wish to continue this discussion and prove any sort of point you're trying to make comply with mod requests and do so in the Political Discussion Thread.

Oh man where to start? I cant believe how many blind, ignorant people there are in this world. "Rotaian" You make a statement about our troops killing more innocent people than Saddam and his regime did, then turn around and bring up a crossfire. That I actually think was your buddy "RX8lover", who made my screen name on the crossfire forum and then tries to bring it on me. Your funny, shows where you go when proven wrong! Then you say "They" want freedom from US Control. Who's they? The insurgents? Please point to a web site that is actually official and shows anything about our troops killing more innocent people than Saddam did in the Gas attacks? Rotaian and "93rd" Obviously know very little about war. 3 Main Things That Are Always Going To Happen In War: Loss of US Troops, Loss of Enemy's, and sad but Loss of Innocents's. It will always be and there's nothing you can do about it. But hey you both must think like Kerry. You want try and talk to terrorist and insurgents. Give in to their every demand. Can't remember the last time anyone has been successful with that.

Heres a little on the Gas Attacks: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/18714.htmHere's some history on the oil crisis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_energy_crisis . But here's the basics, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait wanted to raise the oil prices and used OPEC to do it. The world including the US had little option to do anything about it. The Middle-East was also upset about the US and UN support of Israel and it started a conflict that would rear it's ugly head in this format. Saddam brokered a deal with the US to sell us oil at much cheaper prices cutting out our dependence on OPEC. This gave his regime the power and money they needed to make Iraq a power in the Middle-East. Here's another link: http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ . But this is all history and can pretty easily be verified if you had the inclination. I never sad Saddam was a nice guy, I just said that our government was happy to jump into bed with him at one time and he never lied to us about who he was or what he was capable of.


"93rd" Who's does Iraq have to blame for the problem of Saddam and his now dead sons? The US? Are you freaking nuts? Last I knew Saddam put himself into power? Then had his friends taken out and shot dead in back of the building that same night. Sit here and say were to blame. Oh but you'll come back and say who supplied him with the gas. WE DID! But does that give him the right to kill all those people? We have weapons in our every day life but do we go out and kill people. Some do but most don't! It's not about who supplies you with the weapons but why was he such a evil dictator? Again I didn't say that I was a fan of Saddam. Of course there are much worse atrocities going on in the world, why aren't we taking care of them? If it was an imminent threat that we were concerned about then why didn't we go after North Korea because they actually have a real nuclear power program in place... the only conclusion then is that it must have been for oil.

From the way you right we can all see that you don't like Bush. That's fine but people fought for your freedom to speak the way you do now, but on the other hand if you were in Iraq and talked about Saddam while he was president you wouldn't dare say that because you would be dead! Kerry's the one that voted against sending our troops armor that is needed just a couple months ago. Go talk to him and ask him why he did such a thing! I dare you say to me that I should try understanding. I proved my point in my last remark, it's all about you you you you you!!!! Too many people in this country are too selfish and care about no one! Everybody who's in the Army knows what they are signing into when that put that signature on that paper. You know once you sign your life will be at risk if called to war. I have made no claims to the contrary. I am not a fan of Bush, so what? I'm glad that we have the freedoms we do. I'm not so sure that with our very unconstitutional Patriot Act that we will continue to have the freedom of speech. Our freedom to assemble is already being regulated very heavily. Notice that during the Republican Convention the protesters were only allowed to assemble in designated areas away from where the officials could not see or hear them? But that is a conversation for another thread. As far as the armor and Kerry is concerned I think you got that all wrong. Remind me again what Rumsfeld's job was when he was nominated as SOD? Oh yeah, that's right it was to cut the military by 30%. He had a whole program set in place of a lightweight fast moving military and was going to limit the amount of money we spent on things like armor... you need to do more research apparently. If you want I will find some links for you both about the Patriot Act and it's contents (I could find the whole 3,000+ page document if you like) and about Rumsfeld's job according to Bush at the onset of 2000. I don't think you need to understand I think you need to research it and I mean without bias like I did when I first started hearing about some of this.

I don't know where you get this, "It's all about you" stuff. I happen to be the oldest of 7 kids and basically raised 4 of them after my parents were divorced and during my young teenage years. I also worked for a handicapped care facility starting when I was 12. I have volunteered in many capacities and I am doing more to support our troops than anyone who thinks that displaying a crappy yellow magnet is support. That's not support it's fashion. You need to learn the difference. My family has made the sacrifices that gave you your freedom, you should keep that in mind. My grandfather DeBolt was a Colonel in WWII, if it wasn't for him and the people like him you would be speaking German. I support my country in other ways than supporting a war for oil. I would rather support the troops by trying to get them the things they need and not supporting a president that refuses to see a problem with what he has chosen to do.

Finally one major question that I need you to answer and if you can't answer it, please do not respond to my post any longer. Because if you can't answer it, I will no longer respond to your ignorance.

WHO WAS HEAD OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE THAT GAVE PRESIDENT BUSH THE INFORMATION ON GOING TO WAR WITH IRAQ?Which one? Here's a link, I'll let you pick the report: http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/iraq/documents.html#sicrpt . I think you are trying to get at the Senate being the one's who gave the report. Unfortunately they did it based off the intelligence that our president presented them with and that was mostly based on outside information and the intelligence that the CIA admitted that they thought Bush was looking for. The CIA has already admitted that they gave shakey reports because they felt like they had been preasured to find results showing that Saddam did have WMDs. Here's a link to that: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-06-08-cia-usat_x.htm . Of course USA Today may just be one of those crazy left wing media propoganda machines, right?

I think you have misunderstood my position completely. I am not an anti-war protester. I think we should've gone into Afghanistan and continued to seek out OBL! His head should be held on a stake in front of the Statue of Liberty as a reminder that anyone who attacks our country will be dealt with appropriately! Bush didn't manage to get him did he? Instead he moved right over to Iraq to start a war with a country that didn't attack us. Connections were made with terrorists that didn't exist. We had Saddam on a short leash already, why didn't we stop the massacres that were and are still going on in Africa? Did you know that more than 600,000 people have been killed over there in the last 3 years due to ethnic cleansing? Why didn't we take our police force over there if human rights was our interest?

To be honest I think you might do better not to respond to my posts in the future unless you are willing to do the research and learn how to debate better. The personal attacks aren't getting you anywhere because you know nothing about me personally. At least most of our politicians research their oponents before they try the personal attack route.

To be honest I think you might do better not to respond to my posts in the future unless you are willing to do the research and learn how to debate better. The personal attacks aren't getting you anywhere because you know nothing about me personally. At least most of our politicians research their oponents before they try the personal attack route.


Ah come on 93rd, this is a freedom of speech forum and so we don't have to "research" articles and prepare for a major debate to make posts on here. Heck, if we all did that the entire RX-8 forum would become boring and eventually shut down for lack of posters. That last statement hit me as a bit funny because one only has to review the last campaign and the "mud" was slinging all over the place and it was obvious they did not do their research nor did the ones supporting them do so, and if they did, then they forgot in the debates. This topic was basically posted by a guy who just wanted to share a video of a live Iraq encounter on the streets there and I think that was a good video to just share with everyone. I am not sure how all this war discussion got started and then some mud started to get thrown.

So peace man!! Anyone can post anything they want to and its off the top of their head, so be it. Most of my comments are just that and not researched although some responded with some research which was interesting. This is the internet and so its open to anyone who wants to post in here. Frankly, there have been some really stupid topic threads in this car forum and stupid me read them but I stayed out from posting because it was stupid. Some have fun posting and I guess that's the best way to look at it.

Ah come on 93rd, this is a freedom of speech forum and so we don't have to "research" articles and prepare for a major debate to make posts on here. Heck, if we all did that the entire RX-8 forum would become boring and eventually shut down for lack of posters. That last statement hit me as a bit funny because one only has to review the last campaign and the "mud" was slinging all over the place and it was obvious they did not do their research nor did the ones supporting them do so, and if they did, then they forgot in the debates. This topic was basically posted by a guy who just wanted to share a video of a live Iraq encounter on the streets there and I think that was a good video to just share with everyone. I am not sure how all this war discussion got started and then some mud started to get thrown.

So peace man!! Anyone can post anything they want to and its off the top of their head, so be it. Most of my comments are just that and not researched although some responded with some research which was interesting. This is the internet and so its open to anyone who wants to post in here. Frankly, there have been some really stupid topic threads in this car forum and stupid me read them but I stayed out from posting because it was stupid. Some have fun posting and I guess that's the best way to look at it.I never said anything rude about the video, in fact I watched it and was glad that someone was showing the military perspective. I just mentioned how frustrated I was that our idea of support was the yellow ribbon magnets. This guy jumped all over my case for it so I jumped back (as I usually do). He was the one posted this statement: Finally one major question that I need you to answer and if you can't answer it, please do not respond to my post any longer. Because if you can't answer it, I will no longer respond to your ignorance.

WHO WAS HEAD OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE THAT GAVE PRESIDENT BUSH THE INFORMATION ON GOING TO WAR WITH IRAQ? Among others that were quite rude and personal attacks about how all I ever think about is myself. I was just matching him in the debate. I really liked the thread but as you said before this is an open forum and he should be prepared to have people post something in his thread that he doesn't necessarily agree with. Happens to me all the time but I don't whine about it.

I can't help it if my flamethrower is bigger than his... :D

You like that flamethrower thing!! LOL Seen it twice now.

You like that flamethrower thing!! LOL Seen it twice now.:D :D