To preface this, so I don’t get flamed (as badly), I do not advocate street racing. When I make reference to getting smoked, I mean in the sense that I know I will lose, so I don’t even bother. We all know the feeling; it’s that humbling when a car you know is faster than the 8 pulls up next to you at a light. That instant when you feel like all eyes are watching you, waiting for your response, but you don’t have one. If you own an 8, you know exactly how it feels.

This whole Mazda Speed 6 debacle kills me. I don’t understand what the heck Mazda is doing. They release the RX-8, the flag ship of their fleet, and try to sell it as the “complete sports car.” Their ploy is, despite its lack of power the car is good because it does everything else so well. So all of us run out and buy it, and think we made a great decision. We defend the car against it’s detractors by saying “Oh it’s a great car,” “It will out handle anything else in its price range,” “Who needs horsepower when you got the complete package,” “This car is great because it’s so fun to drive.”

Then 2 years later they release a car that spanks the 8 in all the places Mazda said didn’t matter. They give it the power the 8 should’ve had, and the performance parts to make it handle well enough so that no one is complaining about the cornering. I honestly feel shafted. I get dusted off by just about every comparable sports car on the market, now I’m going to get smoked by another Mazda? Come on. This is like the Vet getting lit up by the Cobalt. It doesn’t’ make any sense.

I don’t want to hear about how much better the 8 looks, or about the handling, or the practicality. The 6 is a good looking car, it has 4 real doors, and will have all wheel drive. It really doesn’t get any better than that. When it comes to driving on the street, I can’t think of a corning situation where the 6 couldn’t hang with an 8. Sure on a really twisty track, we might stand a chance, but I don’t drive on really twisty tracks. When you pull up next to a MS 6 at a light, and they look over at you, just imagine what their thinking. I know what I will be thinking, “I’m such a chump!”

This whole Mazda Speed 6 debacle kills me. I don’t understand what the heck Mazda is doing.....


Do you really think Mazda would breathe on the 3, the 6, AND the Miata, but leave their flagship out in the cold? I think not.

Be patient. Surely they have something up their sleeve for the 8 too.

Do you really think Mazda would breathe on the 3, the 6, AND the Miata, but leave their flagship out in the cold? I think not.

Be patient. Surely they have something up their sleeve for the 8 too.

I like your thinking! :D but seriously...we have Mazda NA secretly working on Supercharged and Turbocharged 8's on the west coast

Could a kit be worked into the picture? I'm thinking no BUT a NA MS edition...not out of the picture at all :D

/warning: wild, rapant, optimism :)

When you pull up next to a MS 6 at a light, and they look over at you, just imagine what their thinking. I know what I will be thinking, “I’m such a chump!”Sounds like the problem is in your head, not in the car.

Your 8 will never be the fastest thing around. Nor will the 6. If you want something that is going to be better than everyone else, why are you even buying Mazdas? At what point do you not think you're a chump? I don't consider the MS 6 a competitor of the RX-8 any more than the Nissan Maxima is.

So anyway, if you think the MS 6 is better because it's faster, or because it might be cheaper than the RX-8, why didn't you get a Neon SRT-4 :)

.... I get dusted off by just about every comparable sports car on the market, now I’m going to get smoked by another Mazda? Come on. This is like the Vet getting lit up by the Cobalt. It doesn’t’ make any sense.


I hate to say it, but I think you bought the wrong car. If what you are worried about is getting "dusted" in drag races then you should get something different. I am fairly confident that if you took your car to a track you could at least keep up with these other sports cars provided equal drivers, and for sure beat the 6.

My argument has very little to do with other car brands, quite frankly I have learned to deal with the fact that the 8 is not a fast car. What bothers me is making the 6 faster than the 8? Modern car companies generally follow a formula in determining the performance, and pricing of their cars. Following that logic, you don’t build an economy car, and make it faster than your sports car. Now that the MS 6 will be the big kid on the block, who the heck is going to buy the 8? What does the 8 offer that the 6 doesn’t? Be honest if the MS 6 was out when you were buying your 8 which would you have purchased? The 6 could spell the end of the 8, making my car a failure, eliminating access to cheap aftermarket parts.

As for some of the other comments:
• There is nothing wrong with my head; I know a lot of 8 owners feel like I do. I fail to see the relationship between my disappointment and mental illness.
• Obviously I understand that my car will never be the fastest, but when you pay 31,000 for a sports car, you expect the acceleration to be proportional. There is no arguing the fact that the 8 is slow in proportion to similarly priced cars. Many will point out that 0-60 in 6 is not that bad, but that 6 second time is a pipe dream. In order to get your car moving that fast, you need to beat it into the ground. Try getting that 6 second time, with catching a whiff of your clutch going up in smoke.
• The SRT-4 is a Neon, I don’t care how much HP you put in it, that’s all it will ever be. I could never bring myself to purchase a Neon, so that car never crossed my mind. As for the performance, I can’t argue with that. It is a bit disturbing that they can get so much out of a Neon, but so little out of the 8.
• Why go with Mazda? It was in my price range, and after reading all the reviews of the 8, I thought it was the best decision. After owning the 8 for two months I find it hard to believe that so many critics loved this car. Aside from the handling, which in my opinion is useless on the streets, the car is far from extraordinary. In retrospect I think they were rewarding the 8 for being different, not for being better. In reality different is only better when it is associated with performance gains. Nothing about the 8’s differences give it any substantial performance gains (excluding the handling). The rear seat, and rear doors are a freaking joke. The rotary engine does rev high, but it really doesn’t deliver any associated performance improvements.

I know I sound like a bitter 8 owner, and quite frankly I am. This car has been nothing but a headache for me. To begin it’s not what I expected; I don’t think the car is fun to drive, nor is it efficient. Reliability has been the pits, I have spent several weekends getting it fixed. Flashes, Flooding Engines, and CEL’s. I have owned several cars, that cost far less than the 8, and none of them have given me so many issues. I just feel cheated. Throw in this whole MS 6 thing, and it just makes my blood boil.

hmm sounds liek someone should've test drove the car befor they signed the dotted line....sorry you don't like you car. I love it but to each his own i guess. I've been in owned and driven a lot of fast cars....and i love the 8 more. but that is just my opinion..which is of coarse only good to me:p

Modern car companies generally follow a formula in determining the performance, and pricing of their cars. Following that logic, you don’t build an economy car, and make it faster than your sports car. Isn't that pretty much what Mitsubishi did with the Evo, souped up their economy offering and made it eclipse the Eclipse in every way? It's pretty clear the 6 is next in line to get the Mazdaspeed treatment because it came out before the 8. Mazda is being tight-lipped but everyone knows a MS 8 is coming too.

Now that the MS 6 will be the big kid on the block, who the heck is going to buy the 8? What does the 8 offer that the 6 doesn’t? Be honest if the MS 6 was out when you were buying your 8 which would you have purchased? The 6 could spell the end of the 8, making my car a failure, eliminating access to cheap aftermarket parts.
Do you really think the 8 will be bypassed by shoppers just because the 6 is faster? Plenty of people will still buy the 8 just because some people don't want sedans. Or AWD. Or maybe they prefer the rotary over a turbo. There are plenty of reasons the two cars won't be cross-shopped.

As for some of the other comments:
There is nothing wrong with my head; I know a lot of 8 owners feel like I do. I fail to see the relationship between my disappointment and mental illness.
And just as many of us are happy with the 8 because we knew what we were getting when we chose it.
Obviously I understand that my car will never be the fastest, but when you pay 31,000 for a sports car, you expect the acceleration to be proportional.
You should also expect acceleration to be proportional to engine output. 5.9, 6 flat, 6.4.....those are all reasonable times for a tiny 238 HP engine.
The SRT-4 is a Neon, I don’t care how much HP you put in it, that’s all it will ever be.
That's surprising to read, since you really do sound like all you care about is speed and being the first away from a stoplight.
Why go with Mazda? It was in my price range, and after reading all the reviews of the 8, I thought it was the best decision.
Ah. So do you always let other people's opinions make up your mind for you? You say you find their raves hard to believe, but if you 1) read closely and understood what you read, 2) test drove the car and 3) test drove the competition, maybe you'd see why they rave about the 8 and put it in 1st place time after time.

I know I sound like a bitter 8 owner, and quite frankly I am. This car has been nothing but a headache for me. To begin it’s not what I expected; I don’t think the car is fun to drive, nor is it efficient. Reliability has been the pits, I have spent several weekends getting it fixed. Flashes, Flooding Engines, and CEL’s. I have owned several cars, that cost far less than the 8, and none of them have given me so many issues. I just feel cheated. Throw in this whole MS 6 thing, and it just makes my blood boil.
Sad predicament. I couldn't imagine being stuck with a car I didn't like. It's really too bad, because whether you want to believe it or not, the 8 is a fabulous car.

PKSkull77 you need to get rid of the 8 so you don't have penis envy of all the other cars out there. Why are you keeping the 8 anyway? I love mine and it hasn't been in the shop at all. Did you do any research when you bought the car?

Pkskull77 I won’t comment on your first post because I think you have been given valid responses. Mainly, don’t worry about the MS 6 since a MS 8 will come soon enough.

I think Mazda does not like it either that their RX8 is not as fast as it’s peers but truly believe (and most people who review the car and own the car agree) it’s a HELL of a sports car…PERIOD.

Don’t get me wrong, I think you have some valid complaints or might have expected more out of a RX8 but did you do any research? I have done, and most people on this website can testify to it, EXTENSIVE research into the RX8. If all I care about is 0-60 & ¼ mile times then the RX8 is not the best among it’s peers (G35, 350Z, GTO, 05 Mustang, S2000). If you look at the numbers the G35 & S2000 are only slightly faster. The 350Z is a little more, the 05 Mustang & GTO would take it easy…but those are BIG V8’s and compare their HP to the RX8:

G35 280HP (295-300HP in the 05)
S2000 240HP
350Z 280HP (or I think it’s 287…or was I thinking of the numbers given before the car was sold?)
05 Mustang 300HP
GTO 350HP

So, the range is about 42-112HP…so, it makes sense that those cars are faster. Only the S200 is comparable and I think it’s lighter. Before you say it…I also understand that most of them are heavier by about 350-700 pounds.

OK…get to the point, the MS 8 will END (at least I hope Mazda has the guts to do this) the little smirks or advantage those cars have. Or, an aftermarket SC/Turbo will do the job also. The car is fast enough for most people out there and you should not worry about everyone else…what is this…HIGH SCHOOL?

You own a hell of a sports car and I’m sorry for the problems, but I think you have sold your soul to the HP/Numbers devil and forgotten all the GREAT things about the car. If anything…sell it or trade it in but don’t live with a car you HATE.

Again, I agree that I wish the RX8 had another 50HP at least but a car is more than numbers. Also, don’t forget…in the LOOKS department…the RX8 KILLS THE COMPITION…without a problem!

Good luck and I hope you find a car that makes you happy because all CAR GUYS understand the love for cars we have and hope the best for someone in search of his LOVE AFFAIR!


Regarding the MS6...I think it will be a hell of a car also and I'm happy that Mazda had the guts to make it an EVEN better car.

I wish they would have used the V6 too but like jsh1120 said, it's about getting the MOST out of the car while maximizeing their profits.

Side note and I'll probably be banned for this...LOL, I wish the RX8 had the V6 in the 6 with about 250HP at 3.2L or so...that would have got more people to buy it or at least make alot of them relax about the car's engine.

But, it would not be a true RX anymore...mess with it's 50/50 (while I think it would not be impossible to make it get 50/50), and kill some of it's uniqueness...please forgive me everyone...don't hate...LOL

Do you really think the 8 will be bypassed by shoppers just because the 6 is faster? Plenty of people will still buy the 8 just because some people don't want sedans. Or AWD. Or maybe they prefer the rotary over a turbo. There are plenty of reasons the two cars won't be cross-shopped.



I belive this depends on what region you live in and your financial situation. CA and FL aside. Where many parts of the country get exposed to inclement weather AWD will be a factor vs. RWD. For me I was lucky enough to have paid off my 8 and don't have that note hangin over my head. I realized however that the 8 was not a car to drive in the snow. So I went ahead and test drove and loved the potential of the 2005 Legacy GT. It is a H4 turbocharged boxer engine that the MS6 will find as it's direct competition.

The bottom line will be the price of the MS6. If it is mucho dinero more than the 8 then people will stick with the 8 and/or possible look at the STI if it is in that price point. If it is less than the 8....then mazda may see thier numbers fall a bit on their flagship car (which will be very sad to see).

Guys...don't get so vaklempt over the mps 6. You do know the curb weight right? Its almost 600 lbs more then an rx8.

3,589 lbs is Mazda's offical curb weight for the touring package...(grand touring adds more stuff, and will weigh more).

Mazda is obviously positioning the MPS 6 as a competitior to something like a TL or G35 Sedan...its no STi or Evo killer by any means...nor is it competition to the rx8, which will be much faster through the corners due to its grealy less "heft."

Here's some other curb weights (all fluids + full tank of gas, no driver weight, base options) I dug up.

Mazda 6 MPS: 3,581
Mazda 6i MTX: 3,042
Mazda 6s MTX: 3,243
Evo MR: 3,085
STi: 3,260
Legacy GT: 3,300
SRT-4: 2,900
Rx8: 3,029
G35 Coupe: 3,512
350Z Eth: 3,197
Mustang GT: 3,450
Acura TL: 3,489
Acura TSX: 3,230
Saturn Redline: 2933
Chevy Cobalt: 2806
Chevy C6: 3179

Weights are from http://www.edmunds.com and are "base" models of each respective car, with all fluids, and a full tank of gas, with no driver. If MTX variants of the car were available, I selected them for the curb weight.

Here's the spec sheet for you guys
Mazda MPS 2006 Spec (http://www.mazda6tech.com/images/Mpspec.pdf)

To begin it’s not what I expected; I don’t think the car is fun to drive

Holy smokes! I'm not going to dissect your post but this baffled me. Are you kidding me? What's fun for you? I thought I had high standards...but the RX8 not fun to drive... wow..

Holy smokes! I'm not going to dissect your post but this baffled me. Are you kidding me? What's fun for you? I thought I had high standards...but the RX8 not fun to drive... wow..

I never said the car wasn't fun for you to drive, I don't find it any fun. This is my peronsal opinion, and you can't attack that. If you lived in an area where you had tons of tight twists and turns, then the 8 might offer a more spirted ride. Or is you took the car to tracks, but I don't do these things. Driving my 8 is no more fun than driving my brothers Chevy Lumina. With the Lumina I also don't get people trying to race me.

An often overlooked issue with the 8 is the fact that it looks really fast. So any time your first in traffic you get people trying to race you. I don't even bother anymore, as most cars will either beat me, or make is so diffuclt that it's not worth the wear and tear on the 8.

Don't take it as a flame. You're right that it's a matter of opinion, but that's why I asked "what's fun for you?" Maybe a trip to the track once a month will brighten things up.

You sound like a pure speed guy. Did you consider the STI, EVO, or 350z?

PS-I don't know where you live but it's so boring here; flat, straight. I have to hunt for nice curvy roads and they last for all of 5 minutes.

Don't take it as a flame. You're right that it's a matter of opinion, but that's why I asked "what's fun for you?" Maybe a trip to the track once a month will brighten things up.

You sound like a pure speed guy. Did you consider the STI, EVO, or 350z?

PS-I don't know where you live but it's so boring here; flat, straight. I have to hunt for nice curvy roads and they last for all of 5 minutes.

It's the whole package, which includes the ability to comfortably out-accelerate a jeep Cherokee. It’s not that I need to, in order to stroke my ego, but at the price we pay we should. The bottom line is that the RX-8 is marketed as a sports car, and modern sports cars need to get going quickly. The reality is that the 8 is slow and that is a serious mark against it. It’s really sad to think, but my girlfriend SUV (Suzuki XL-7) is just a tad slower than my sports car, that is just downright embarrassing.

You are right I should have gone with the EVO, STI, or 350z, problem is none of those dealers were willing to work with me on price. Unfortunately, I will live to regret my decision for the next 4 years or so.

It's the whole package, which includes the ability to comfortably out-accelerate a jeep Cherokee. It’s not that I need to, in order to stroke my ego, but at the price we pay we should. The bottom line is that the RX-8 is marketed as a sports car, and modern sports cars need to get going quickly. The reality is that the 8 is slow and that is a serious mark against it. It’s really sad to think, but my girlfriend SUV (Suzuki XL-7) is just a tad slower than my sports car, that is just downright embarrassing.

You are right I should have gone with the EVO, STI, or 350z, problem is none of those dealers were willing to work with me on price. Unfortunately, I will live to regret my decision for the next 4 years or so.does this mean you REALLY REALLY dislike the honda s2000? It's just a hair quicker than the rx-8 (mostly cause it's lighter), and costs quite a bit more. I guess that's not a sports car.... maybe it's a SUV..

does this mean you REALLY REALLY dislike the honda s2000? It's just a hair quicker than the rx-8 (mostly cause it's lighter), and costs quite a bit more. I guess that's not a sports car.... maybe it's a SUV..


Well with the Honda you eliminate the reilaility issues you get with the 8. The S2000 is also a soft top, which is a real benefit the 8 doesn't have. And as you said the S2000 is a better car. So no I don't hate it, but I would not purchase an S2000, having owned an 8.

my girlfriend SUV (Suzuki XL-7) is just a tad slower than my sports car, that is just downright embarrassing.


I'd love to have a XL-7 which runs 14-second 1/4 miles, at mid 90s mph trap speeds. WOW... VERY Cool. What has she done to it? Turbo I guess?

The car is stock! When we run next to eachother she hangs really close. I ran into an 8 at a stop light the other dayand we were close. The guy was driving hard, I could tell by his engine sounds. The point isn't that the XL-7 is fast, it's that the 8 isn't. In order to get good time you have to be perfect through all gears, and be willing to beat your car silly. If both don't apply to you, something like an XL-7 will bet you. It should not be that way, I shold be able to comfortably pull on something like that, I can't. Thats pretty sad.

Don't take this personally, but if you are having problems passing an XL-7, maybe you should re-evaluate your driving skills. The XL-7 has 185 horsepower, to the 8's 238. It also outweighs the 8 by almost 800 pounds :eek: . I am not attacking you, but I'm thinking you are stretching the truth a bit.

wow. Then it seems like operator error. Even from a roll, an RX8 would destroy an XL7 - just look at the trap speeds of both cars:

XL-7 = ~80mph
RX8 = ~95mph

The only chance the XL7 has is if he caught the RX8 in 5th or 6th gear at 40? mph or so. Any decent driver - I mean any driver who wants to pass an XL7 should be able to do so with no drama whatsoever.

(shrug).

Whats the difference in torque? HP is only good once you get rolling, torque is what determines the winner of a short hole shot.

Well with the Honda you eliminate the reilaility issues you get with the 8. The S2000 is also a soft top, which is a real benefit the 8 doesn't have. And as you said the S2000 is a better car. So no I don't hate it, but I would not purchase an S2000, having owned an 8.Soft top is subjective. My last car was a convertable, and I think it will be the last convertable I ever buy. Too much noise at high speeds.

I never said the S2000 was better, I only said it was slightly quicker, but came with a much larger price tag. So using your logic, the S2000 isn't a sports car, and is only a tad faster than your SUV.

Whats the difference in torque? HP is only good once you get rolling, torque is what determines the winner of a short hole shot.My 25,000 lbs, 35' RV has more torque than you can shake a fist at, but it gets 0-60 in... one or two minutes. I agree with the others, you're just looking for excuses to beat on the RX-8 and throwing subjectivity and logic out the window.

If you don't like it, get rid of it like you've done your other 11 cars, it's no skin off my back that you dislike the car. I on the other hand love my RX-8 and have no issues with it.

Whats the difference in torque? HP is only good once you get rolling, torque is what determines the winner of a short hole shot.


I don't care how big of a hole-shot you need, a 17 second SUV does not beat a 14 second Sports car. :) Not of the sports car was 'trying'. Could happen, I guess, if the race were shorter than about 20 feet? Maybe?

186 pound feet of torque I believe.

maybe he has an automatic 8 an automatic 8 prolly would lose to an suv.

186 pound feet of torque I believe.


What does the 8 have?

maybe he has an automatic 8 an automatic 8 prolly would lose to an suv.


Doubtful that'd happen too - at least not to a 17-second SUV such as the XL7. I bet I could power-brake an RX8 and out launch MOST SUVs, Mini-vans, etc. :)

Prolly out-launch most manual RX8s, for that matter.

What does the 8 have?

2.1 second 60ft- times ;)

Even still, the weight difference is too huge to discount. The XL-7 weighs almost 3900 pounds to the 8's 3000 or so. It'sa no contest. Do you haul anvils in the back of your 8? Did you take your tires off and are running only on the rims? These are the only viable explanations I see for failing to outrun a big SUV like that.

I have not owned 11 cars just 4. All the previous ones were old as hell, and I drove them into the ground. Despite their age I still like most of the older ones more than my brand new 8. You're right I am beating up on the 8, I hate the car, and now I am stuck with it for 4 years. If I could afford to get rid of it I would.

What does the 8 have?
That's irrelevant, but for giggles it's 159 pound feet. That number is really of no meaning. Are you forgetting that the 8 is a sports car, with more aggressive gearing? If you can't pass an XL-7 with the 8, would you be losing to a 2.5 RS in an STI? Or since you're so concerned about torque numbers, would you lose to a uhaul with the v10 turbo diesel probably running around 600 pound feet of so?

Pkskull, why don't you just admit that you're a mag racer and a grown man who is just now learning to drive a stick? You could have bought a Vette and you'd probably get smoked, since you don't know how to properly drive.

We all know that the 8 isn't the fastest thing out there, but those of us that can drive it properly at least get more out of it than you can.

I'll concede one area where the XL7 whoops up on RX8s.








Towing Capacity.

I have not owned 11 cars just 4. All the previous ones were old as hell, and I drove them into the ground. Despite their age I still like most of the older ones more than my brand new 8. You're right I am beating up on the 8, I hate the car, and now I am stuck with it for 4 years. If I could afford to get rid of it I would.
If you hate it so much, why not go sell it? Trade it in for an SRT-4 which has loads of torque. There are many ways to get rid of the car, if you don't like it, do something about it.

What does the 8 have?

It just sounds like you bought the wrong car for what you want. Many people buying the 8 know it ain't gonna hang speedwise with many other sports cars/sports sedans. Instead they buy it for the handling (twisties is were it lives) and the unique styling. Where you made the mistake is not trading it in before the 2005's came out. Now you will be upside down on any trade and will get screwed unless you find a dealer to work with you. (The mazda incentives are not helping either). Or enjoy driving the car and know that your not gonna have a chance with a STI or EVO....(or even the Legacy GT... ;) ) and wait for someone to make a reliable FI system. Really...don't be so hung up about what you can and can't whip in a race.

It just sounds like you bought the wrong car for what you want. Many people buying the 8 know it ain't gonna hang speedwise with many other sports cars/sports sedans. Instead they buy it for the handling (twisties is were it lives) and the unique styling. Where you made the mistake is not trading it in before the 2005's came out. Now you will be upside down on any trade and will get screwed unless you find a dealer to work with you. (The mazda incentives are not helping either). Or enjoy driving the car and know that your not gonna have a chance with a STI or EVO....(or even the Legacy GT... ;) ) and wait for someone to make a reliable FI system. Really...don't be so hung up about what you can and can't whip in a race.
I think it's fine for him to want more power, it's his opinion. He just needs to quit complaining and do something about it. Put it up for sale, put an ad in the classifieds or Autotrader.com, and use the money from that on a down payment for a new car. If you hate something so much, you'll be mad you kept it for 4 years, and you won't get much out of it fun-wise or money-wise. Sell your car!

It just sounds like you bought the wrong car for what you want. Many people buying the 8 know it ain't gonna hang speedwise with many other sports cars/sports sedans. Instead they buy it for the handling (twisties is were it lives) and the unique styling. Where you made the mistake is not trading it in before the 2005's came out. Now you will be upside down on any trade and will get screwed unless you find a dealer to work with you. (The mazda incentives are not helping either). Or enjoy driving the car and know that your not gonna have a chance with a STI or EVO....(or even the Legacy GT... ;) ) and wait for someone to make a reliable FI system. Really...don't be so hung up about what you can and can't whip in a race.


Thats exactly my problem there is no way I can afford to give up all the money. I put down 15,000, so I would not be upside down, but I would lose a ton of value if I traded it. I've come to realize that I can't beat those cars, and for that matter, I can't beat anything with a good motor. It's just disheartning to own something you hate when I worked so hard to get it.

As for the XL-7, I have already concided that the RX-8 will beat it, but I am telling you that you will have to work really hard to do so. In order to beat that truck down you will have to flog the 8. Do that enough, and you need a new clutch. The problem isn't just that the 8 is slow, but also that you have to work so hard to get it moving. Shifting at 7,000 RPM's is terrible for the clutch and your drive train.

Thats exactly my problem there is no way I can afford to give up all the money. I put down 15,000, so I would not be upside down, but I would lose a ton of value if I traded it. I've come to realize that I can't beat those cars, and for that matter, I can't beat anything with a good motor. It's just disheartning to own something you hate when I worked so hard to get it.

As for the XL-7, I have already concided that the RX-8 will beat it, but I am telling you that you will have to work really hard to do so. In order to beat that truck down you will have to flog the 8. Do that enough, and you need a new clutch. The problem isn't just that the 8 is slow, but also that you have to work so hard to get it moving. Shifting at 7,000 RPM's is terrible for the clutch and your drive train.


Two things...1.) If you have an MT shifting at 7000 is not a prob..don't worry about it. Your still 2000 rpm below redline. 2.) If you are not upside down than just trade the fucker in. Cars depreciate...fact of life. You won't get nearly as much towards a trade in 4 yrs from now than you would tomorrow. Regardless if you put $15,000 down. Really...you prob owe $8-9,000, the car blue book is around $24,000 (give or take). Realistically the dealer will give you 18-20k for the car due to the 05's being out and the incentives currently available thru Mazda. You will loose at best $5,000...probably less. Just dump it and get what ya want.

It's not the engine you have to worry about at 7,000 it's the clutch. If you f up the engine they will replace that, but not the clutch.

Thats exactly my problem there is no way I can afford to give up all the money. I put down 15,000, so I would not be upside down, but I would lose a ton of value if I traded it. I've come to realize that I can't beat those cars, and for that matter, I can't beat anything with a good motor. It's just disheartning to own something you hate when I worked so hard to get it.



Brother - you need to invest your money in a driving school. I'm hoping you aren't insulted by that; no offense intended.

regardless of any of this peak torque doesnt matter at all. torque over the powerband does, (look at the area under the torque curve to give you an idea of potential)...you got more area under the curve you have more potential for whatever weight the car is. calculus always wins. i doubt the xl7 has as much area undner its curve.

btw i almost never get smoked off the line...a wrx is faster off the line, but im certainly not losing to big or small SUVs either.

Thats exactly my problem there is no way I can afford to give up all the money. I put down 15,000, so I would not be upside down, but I would lose a ton of value if I traded it. I've come to realize that I can't beat those cars, and for that matter, I can't beat anything with a good motor. It's just disheartning to own something you hate when I worked so hard to get it.

As for the XL-7, I have already concided that the RX-8 will beat it, but I am telling you that you will have to work really hard to do so. In order to beat that truck down you will have to flog the 8. Do that enough, and you need a new clutch. The problem isn't just that the 8 is slow, but also that you have to work so hard to get it moving. Shifting at 7,000 RPM's is terrible for the clutch and your drive train.

incorrectly shifting is bad for a clutch at any rpm, if you shift well you can do less damage at 9500 rpm than someone who doesnt know what they are doing at 4000rpm. and btw if you're complaining about being slow racing the car why are you not using the entire potential of the car before you completely discount it. Its not a camry it has a 9500rpm fuel cut off because its built to handle it.

PkSkull77,after reading your post, I have come to a conclusion: you are one sad sad man! If 77 was the year you were born, that would make you 27. A bit too early to have a mid life crisis wouldn't it? Unless you only plan to live to see your 50s. Sad indeed. :(

ahh that explains it. If you're shifting at 3,000 rpm you're going to get smoked by the 12 year old on a BMX.

It's not the engine you have to worry about at 7,000 it's the clutch. If you f up the engine they will replace that, but not the clutch.


Don't worry about the clutch when you shift at 7k. The majority of clutch wear occurs when you accelerate from a dead stop. So unless you dumping the clutch at every light (which will not only burn the clutch out but tear up your gears) you'll be fine. Of all the WRX's , STI's and EVO's I have worked on, never have I heard of anyone complaining that they burnt their clutch out shifting at Xrpm. Just sell it now and get what ya can. You won't loose that much.

This whole Mazda Speed 6 debacle kills me. I don’t understand what the heck Mazda is doing.

Honda did the same thing to me. I had a CL-S with 260HP. 1 year later they release the Accord Coupe with 240HP and 6 speed. To top it off it had voice activated everything. For 5 Grand less than the CL-S!!!

:mad:

It's not the engine you have to worry about at 7,000 it's the clutch. If you f up the engine they will replace that, but not the clutch.
Why would they give the car such a high redline and fuel cutoff if they wanted you to shift at 4000rpm in every gear? The car was built to handle it, so was the clutch. When you're going down the track do you wind it up to 9000 and take your foot off the gas until the tachometer says 4000 to shift? They gave this car such a high redline for a reason. The S2000 is the same, slightly lower redline lower, you are supposed to wind it all the way up and then shift. I think you might want to consider getting performance driving lessons, it would help a great deal. Don't take any of this as an insult, if you hate the car trade it in. I don't think you whining is getting you anywhere.

Wow--I really hope this PKSKull guy is a troll.

I don't understand why you think I am having a mid life crisis? If its because I don't like my car that's foolish. I am pissed because I have been forced to drive crappy cars all my life. This is especially difficult becuase I am a car fanatic, I love driving, and love sports cars. So when I finally get up the cash to land something nice, I get something that I don't like.

As for shifting at 3000 RPM's, I don't stop there when I am trying to go fast. I stetch it out, but that is still not enough. The car is not fast, end of story! I don't drive in situations where I can take advantage of the cars handling, so all I see is the ugly side. I find that very frustrating.

Sell the car brother. If you can't drive fast with 200hp, 2000 won't help you. :D

Out of curiousity...did ya drive the car before ya bought it? You only have yourself to blame for always having crappy cars (which the 8 is not). You pick em!!! :)

Wow--I really hope this PKSKull guy is a troll.

No, sadly I'm not!

Sell the S.O.B. and stop whining about it. You obviously made a very poor decision due to your lack of automotive accumen--get something else and move around. You haven't said anything substantive in all your talk. I myself have had no problems out of my 8--if you have had all of those issues you should be pissed to--but the other stuff you are talking is meaningless rhetoric. Get another car--there will be someone to take the 8 off your hands.

I'd send the buyer of his car $20 for them to get video of them racing an XL7.

:D

Out of curiousity...did ya drive the car before ya bought it? You only have yourself to blame for always having crappy cars (which the 8 is not). You pick em!!! :)


They were the only cars I could afford, so I really did not have a choice in the matter. I did drive the 8, but like I said early it was hard for me to gage performance, because I really didn't have the manual experience. Due to this I had to rely heavily on criticial opinions.

I wish I could have learned stick better before test driving, but the only way to learn it well is to drive it on a daily basis. The only way that this was happening is when I bought a new car. Kinda like how do you get the experience without a job, how do you get the job without expereince.

They were the only cars I could afford, so I really did not have a choice in the matter. I did drive the 8, but like I said early it was hard for me to gage performance, because I really didn't have the manual experience. Due to this I had to rely heavily on criticial opinions.

I wish I could have learned stick better before test driving, but the only way to learn it well is to drive it on a daily basis. The only way that this was happening is when I bought a new car. Kinda like how do you get the experience without a job, how do you get the job without expereince.


Just an FYI....a WRX is cheaper than the 8. Granted you might not have liked the lag...but that can be fixed... :D

Just an FYI....a WRX is cheaper than the 8. Granted you might not have liked the lag...but that can be fixed... :D


One of my good friends has the STI, after driving in that car I could never go for the WRX, as I would crave the extra performance.

One of my good friends has the STI, after driving in that car I could never go for the WRX, as I would crave the extra performance.


Cheaper car.....mod it as you go and I think you'll be happier.

Cheaper car.....mod it as you go and I think you'll be happier.


To be honest with you I have no desire to mod, I don't know what I am doing, and the cost can get out of hand.

One of my good friends has the STI, after driving in that car I could never go for the WRX, as I would crave the extra performance.


By performance you mean "More Grunt by pressing the Go Pedal"?

Frankly, I've seen a well-driven MIATA take a VIPER to school on a race track. Stop spending money on HP - learn how to effectively use the HP you have. Seriously.

I don't understand why you think I am having a mid life crisis? If its because I don't like my car that's foolish. I am pissed because I have been forced to drive crappy cars all my life. This is especially difficult becuase I am a car fanatic, I love driving, and love sports cars. So when I finally get up the cash to land something nice, I get something that I don't like.

As for shifting at 3000 RPM's, I don't stop there when I am trying to go fast. I stetch it out, but that is still not enough. The car is not fast, end of story! I don't drive in situations where I can take advantage of the cars handling, so all I see is the ugly side. I find that very frustrating.
No one forced you to drive this car or any other car. They were your decisions. Change things and stop complaining.

Thanks for listining, I am just having a terrible day, and my car just happens to make it worse. I felt like ranting, and since no one else cares this was about my only place to vent. I don't like the 8, but I'm stuck with it for now.

To make matters worse Mazda just called and told me my recall has a recall, something I already knew from reading this forum. The good old M flash is causing the CEL. So now I have to drive around for a couple of months with the check engine light on. Thats an example of quality engineering right there.

When I was going to get my car I saw an omen that I should have headed. As I pass the Subaru dealership what do I see in their used car lot? A brand new Black RX-8 (Same color I have). Someone ended up in the same position as me, dissapointed with performance. They bit the bullet and got a WRX, maybe thats what I should do! I just don't think the old woman would appreciate that.

Where are you located Pskull? I'm sure there are some friendly 8 owners in your area that would be willing to go for a ride with you and help you find out why YOUR car is so slow, or perhaps help you feel better about your car and enjoy owning it. No sense hating owning what really is a great automobile. I would be willing to help you out if you lived nearby. If i took you for a ride in mine, slow would be the LAST word that would come to mind... and I'm not abusive to my car.

So is there anybody near poor Pkskull willing to help him out? It saddens me to see an 8 owner in such an unhappy way.

Thanks for listining, I am just having a terrible day, and my car just happens to make it worse. I felt like ranting, and since no one else cares this was about my only place to vent. I don't like the 8, but I'm stuck with it for now.

To make matters worse Mazda just called and told me my recall has a recall, something I already knew from reading this forum. The good old M flash is causing the CEL. So now I have to drive around for a couple of months with the check engine light on. Thats an example of quality engineering right there.

When I was going to get my car I saw an omen that I should have headed. As I pass the Subaru dealership what do I see in their used car lot? A brand new Black RX-8 (Same color I have). Someone ended up in the same position as me, dissapointed with performance. They bit the bullet and got a WRX, maybe thats what I should do! I just don't think the old woman would appreciate that.
I don't understand what the big deal is about getting rid of the car. Why can't you trade it in? Go for something with some nuts if that's what you want. Get yourself WRX, it's fast, got some decent styling and is easily modded to go very fast. Another great thing about this car is that it's cheaper than an RX8!!! I'm sure with your trade-in money you could get one pretty easily. If you don't want the WRX go for the SRT-4, or the GTO, a Camaro, Mustang GT. These cars all have great amounts of power. Everyone here has their own opinions about the car they drive and about other cars. Yours seems to conflict with most of the opinions in this thread and that's fine. But I beg you, if you hate the car so much, do something about it.

Pkskull77...

I think you are behing honest about how you "FEEL" about the car but I agree with what they are saying...the RX8 is a high rev engine and you have to push it to it's REV (like any car but it comes later on since most cars can't rev to 9000RPM) to get it to move at it's best. Yes it lacks torque but 14.5 in the 1/4 is not slow at ALL.

I hope you can trade it in or sell it so you can get that straight line car you are looking for.

I really don't understand this whole speed issue. How many times does anyone street race? Me never. I wouldn't trade this car for any of those light to light cars that can beat me by a whole 1/2 second to a full second. BFD. This car looks ten times better, handles 45 mph curves at 80+ no problem and gets alot more compliments then a stupid srt neon, etc. every would. Maybe its because I am 37 but you can keep those ugly cars and get to the next stoplight a little before me. I will meet you there in a second and we will both be waiting until it turns green before we go anywhere jackass. Matter of fact we could go to the same location and i would pull in right behind you in a much better looking ride :) You had 3 kills last week and a $200 + ticket for wreckless driving this week. Congrats! you rock! My ride turns ladies heads. Yours can get you to the next RED light a second faster...


Another rant. Haven't pushed the limits but some have went 140+? Just how damn fast do you want to go on public highways if that isn't fast?

I remember when I first learned how to drive a stick. I thought my little 1.5 liter Honda Civic LX (Very pedestrian), was slow. I thought it had no power at all. I remember being freaked out about wearing out the clutch.

I also remember being very annoyed at constantly having to play with the shifter durring traffic, and never seeming to know which gear was the right gear to grab as you found yourself on a slight incline.

Some of these things wore off rather quickly. I got pretty familiar with the gears, in the first year, and I found that the Civic had enough power to get around town without much problem. I stopped worrying about the clutch, but I didn't really realize how much this shouldn't be a concern at all.

When I got my CIVIC it had 30k miles on it.

That was about 7 years ago. I still have the car today, I regularly shift it at 6000 rpm's and double clutch. The car has 190k miles on it, and the clutch feels like it did the day I bought it. Other than changing the plugs and the standard oil-change / timing belt, I haven't had to do anything to the car.

What I have learned over these last seven years, is that this car's power band is actually 3700-5300 rpms. The car wants to be driven in this range. This car loves to be driven like that. We americans baby our cars. Just go spend some time in europe and see how they drive, and you will realize that cars are much tougher than we think they are.

I really don' think that I could tear up my clutch if I tried. Well Actually I have been trying to tear up this car for about 90k miles, and it just won't die.

Now, I guarentee you that I will beat just about any SUV with my 90hp 1.5 liter econo-car because I know how to drive it. As a matter of fact I beat a Z28 driven by a friend of mine who had spent about 20 grand on intake and exhaust and gear upgrades, he had about 310 hp on me, but I still beat him. We started the race as a joke his monster vs my mouse. I felt bad beating him, because he had a reputation around town as the guy to beat, and he just got stomped by a piece of junk. (He later confided that he missed 2nd gear, but still he should have killed me even if he missed a gear)

All I can say is take some time, let your baby stretch her legs a little, and you might just find you have alot more power than you thought.

And as for the other negatives about manual transmission, I love driving them now. I would never own anything else. Even those silly manual shift 5 speed automatics are just too disconnected from the real power for me. I don't even notice shifting it happens automatically, and I never even notice the constant shifting in traffic, its just something that comes naturally once you are really comfortable with driving a stick.

And if that doesn't convince you that you aren't getting the most out of your car watch this video.

http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/item/predownload/209/free-racing/videos/top-gear---mazda-rx8.html

And if that doesn't convince you that you aren't getting the most out of your car watch this video.


I've seen this video before, and the car looks impressive, but something strange is afoot. I'm convinced that Mazda greased his pockets. Although the 8 is easier for a beginer to drive fast, a true proffesional driving both cars could easily put up a better time in the 350z. Then they get really silly and rank it with the M3. I don't know how scientific the laps were, but the RX-8 can't hold a candle to the M3.

This is one of the articles that convinced me to go with the RX-8 over the Zed. If I was going to defend the 8, this is the video I would use. I just don't buy their results.

I really don't understand this whole speed issue. How many times does anyone street race? Me never. I wouldn't trade this car for any of those light to light cars that can beat me by a whole 1/2 second to a full second. BFD. This car looks ten times better, handles 45 mph curves at 80+ no problem and gets alot more compliments then a stupid srt neon, etc. every would. Maybe its because I am 37 but you can keep those ugly cars and get to the next stoplight a little before me. I will meet you there in a second and we will both be waiting until it turns green before we go anywhere jackass. Matter of fact we could go to the same location and i would pull in right behind you in a much better looking ride :) You had 3 kills last week and a $200 + ticket for wreckless driving this week. Congrats! you rock! My ride turns ladies heads. Yours can get you to the next RED light a second faster...


Another rant. Haven't pushed the limits but some have went 140+? Just how damn fast do you want to go on public highways if that isn't fast?

I have never gone looking for a street race, but from the second I bought the 8, people been finding me. It's amazing the types of vehicles people attempt to race, for some reason folks get turned on when they see something sporty. For that reason I find it hard to believe someone has not tried to dust you off at least once. Sometimes you feel like fighting back, instead of sitting there and taking it. I quickly found out that it's often useless to resist. If the car is comparable to the 8 in price, it's probably going to win.

I agree with your logic about how silly it is, but sometimes it feels good to open up on someone. In certain traffic situations, for instance where 2 lanes turn into one, its actually useful.

As for the looks, I can safety say that very few women are actually impressed by the looks of your car. Women really don't care about that sort of thing. The fact that you’re impressed about that, is almost as silly as my obsession with the 8's acceleration.

Pkskull77...

I think you are behing honest about how you "FEEL" about the car but I agree with what they are saying...the RX8 is a high rev engine and you have to push it to it's REV (like any car but it comes later on since most cars can't rev to 9000RPM) to get it to move at it's best. Yes it lacks torque but 14.5 in the 1/4 is not slow at ALL.

I hope you can trade it in or sell it so you can get that straight line car you are looking for.


Thank you, I hope so too.

is almost as silly as my obsession with the 8's acceleration.

Then I don't see a problem. The 8 has some of the best acceleration in the world - I can't think of too many other cars which rank higher, than .91G. :)

The thing about the women was a bit of a joke being that I am married and don't go looking anyway but I get positive comments daily without question from men and women. But to say women don't care about that is naive. Some do some don't. I prefer to stay away from those that do. I never have had a problem opening up on someone as you put it on the highway. Stoplight to stoplight, big deal as I said but this car is anything but slow. Unless you are truly wanting to race stoplight to stoplight your no acceleration is a crock. I certainly didn't buy this car to street race so they can dust me off all they want. It seems that is your biggest issue so you really need to go get a srt so you can smile for a block or so once in a while. Once you get into traffic you are stuck with a crappy car which I figure is at least 90% of the time. Enjoy...

The thing about the women was a bit of a joke being that I am married and don't go looking anyway but I get positive comments daily without question from men and women. But to say women don't care about that is naive. Some do some don't. I prefer to stay away from those that do. I never have had a problem opening up on someone as you put it on the highway. Stoplight to stoplight, big deal as I said but this car is anything but slow. Unless you are truly wanting to race stoplight to stoplight your no acceleration is a crock. I certainly didn't buy this car to street race so they can dust me off all they want. It seems that is your biggest issue so you really need to go get a srt so you can smile for a block or so once in a while. Once you get into traffic you are stuck with a crappy car which I figure is at least 90% of the time. Enjoy...

I hate the SRT-4! The car is impressive, but it's not the whole package. To me the most frustrating part of the RX-8 is how very close they came to putting together the entire package. I don't understand why they left the horsepower out. I am pretty sure that any aspiration they add in the future was concocted prior to the RX-8 release. You know that they experiment with different types of aspiration on the engine. Why did they hold back? The only answer is to screw people, tease them the first time, and deliver the second time.

I hate the SRT-4! The car is impressive, but it's not the whole package. To me the most frustrating part of the RX-8 is how very close they came to putting together the entire package. I don't understand why they left the horsepower out. I am pretty sure that any aspiration they add in the future was concocted prior to the RX-8 release. You know that they experiment with different types of aspiration on the engine. Why did they hold back? The only answer is to screw people, tease them the first time, and deliver the second time.They didn't leave the HP out. The engine in the rx-8 is better than the previous rotaries. Look at how much hp it puts out compared to previous rotaries. Look at the gas consumption. You can't even claim that mazda held back - look at the aftermarket gains for the rx-8 when it comes to intake, exhaust, etc. Very little can be gained because of how well the rx-8 was tuned from the factory.

It's true the RX-8 isn't turbocharged, but they don't come out with a turbo version of the car in the first year.

Regardless of what you're complaining about with the rx-8, none of what you describe should be news to you since you test drove it before hand, and did your research.

I really think it's your ability to drive stick that lacks, not the car.

They didn't leave the HP out. The engine in the rx-8 is better than the previous rotaries. Look at how much hp it puts out compared to previous rotaries. Look at the gas consumption. You can't even claim that mazda held back - look at the aftermarket gains for the rx-8 when it comes to intake, exhaust, etc. Very little can be gained because of how well the rx-8 was tuned from the factory.

It's true the RX-8 isn't turbocharged, but they don't come out with a turbo version of the car in the first year.

Regardless of what you're complaining about with the rx-8, none of what you describe should be news to you since you test drove it before hand, and did your research.

I really think it's your ability to drive stick that lacks, not the car.


To some extent my stick skills are lacking, I can't argue with you there. I am just frustrated with the fact that Mazda screws you by releasing a turbo version 2-3 years after the initial release. You know they had the tech to do it in 2003. Any time you see a MS Speed mock up the thing is Turbo Charged, where do you think they got the know how to do that? I shouldn’t have to buy two cars to get the one I wanted; it should have been a choice from the start. This issue is they wanted to make the extra cahs

Mazda, like me, is clearly concerned with the HP, that’s part of the reason behind the HP debacle when the car was first released. They say it was an accident, I think they were trying to get away with one. They believed that no one would be able to test it, so they gave it a try.

I OWN A 2004 RX-8..........AND THEIR ISN'T ANYONE ON THIS BOARD THAT CAN TELL ME THAT THEY ARE TRULY 100% HAPPY WITH THE FACT THAT THEY SPENT 25,000-35,000 ON A CAR THAT A SRT-4 CAN SPANK.....AND LETS NOT LIE THEY CAN....MODS INCLUDED(MOD FOR MOD OF COURSE).....THAT IS WHY THIS IS SUCH A HEATED DISCUSSION....IF THIS WASN'T A PROBLEM THIS THREAD WOULDN'T ALREADY HAVE 7 PAGES IN ONE DAY!!!!!WE CAN SIT HERE ALL DAY AND SAY IT HANDLES THIS AND HANDLES THAT!!!!!WHO CARES WHEN A KID IN A STOCK NEON WAXES YOU #$$ OFF THE LINE!!!!I HAVE DRIVEN MY RX-8 TO ITS MAX STOCK POTENTIAL AND I HAVE ALSO DRIVEN A BONE STOCK SRT-4....(YES IT IS CHEAPER AS FAR AS INTERIOR AN EXTERIOR LOOKS.....BUT IT PULLED HARDER...ALOT HARDER.....)LETS STOP BITCHING ABOUT THIS TO EACH OTHER AND START BITCHING TO MAZDA!!!!THEY OWE US.....BIG......I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I WANT POWER FOR $450.00 A MONTH......AND I CAN ASSURE THAT A HEAVY CAR STILL PULLS HARDER WHEN IT HAS 40 MORE HORSEPOWER AND MORE TORQUE ....ESPECIALLY WITH FORCED INDUCTION.....

AND SOME OF YOU THAT SAY THIS CAR IS NOT AN STI OR EVO KILLER!!!STOP CRYING !!!!!JUST MAD THAT YOU KNOW SOME OLD LADY IS GOING TO LIKE THIS NEW CARE, BUY IT, AND WAX YOU STOCK EVEN WITH ALL YOUR BOLT ON MODS....


I ASK YOU .....................GROCERY GETTER.......OR........RX-8 KILLER!!!!

I KNOW THIS SHOULD GET SOME GOOD REPOSTS.....HAVE FUN!!!! :eek:

To some extent my stick skills are lacking, I can't argue with you there. I am just frustrated with the fact that Mazda screws you by releasing a turbo version 2-3 years after the initial release. You know they had the tech to do it in 2003. Any time you see a MS Speed mock up the thing is Turbo Charged, where do you think they got the know how to do that? I shouldn’t have to buy two cars to get the one I wanted; it should have been a choice from the start. This issue is they wanted to make the extra cahsYou are right about one thing - they did intentionally release a NA version of the car, while having plans to release a faster version down the road. The reason for this is because they can then see how the car performs, and locate any problems that might be problematic with a higher output motor.

But this goes with any car maker. Each year they tend to put out a better, faster, nicer looking version than the previous year. It's not about screwing *you*, it's about producing a better product. Same goes for software, computers, etc.

I OWN A 2004 RX-8..........AND THEIR ISN'T ANYONE ON THIS BOARD THAT CAN TELL ME THAT THEY ARE TRULY 100% HAPPY WITH THE FACT THAT THEY SPENT 25,000-35,000 ON A CAR THAT A SRT-4 CAN SPANK.....AND LETS NOT LIE THEY CAN....MODS INCLUDED(MOD FOR MOD OF COURSE).....THAT IS WHY THIS IS SUCH A HEATED DISCUSSION....IF THIS WASN'T A PROBLEM THIS THREAD WOULDN'T ALREADY HAVE 7 PAGES IN ONE DAY!!!!!WE CAN SIT HERE ALL DAY AND SAY IT HANDLES THIS AND HANDLES THAT!!!!!WHO CARES WHEN A KID IN A STOCK NEON WAXES YOU #$$ OFF THE LINE!!!!I
...
I KNOW THIS SHOULD GET SOME GOOD REPOSTS.....HAVE FUN!!!! :eek:Not sure if this is going to get you any good replies, as you've only restated what others have said, albeit in CAPS.

The SRT-4 was out when you bought your RX-8. If you wanted a neon, why didn't you get one? I don't understand where you are coming from.

Jesus....Makes ya wonder what the hell people think about when they test drive a car.

The SRT-4 point really touches a nerve. We all bought sports cars, and implicit with that is generally a desire to drive them to their limits. We want to accelerate fast, corner quickly, stop on a dime, and hit the top end. We spent a lot of money to get the 8, and to some extent we did so blindly. Aside from some articles are only impressions of the vehicle came from a test drive, an impressions which is generally too short to really get a feel for the car. Some of you even bought the car thinking it had more horsepower than it does. With that in mind, I know every one of you has gotten beaten by something that pissed you off. Whether it be a Neon, a Zed, or some riced out Honda.

At that very minute you thought to yourself WTF? You questioned your decision and perhaps doubted all the hype that surrounded this car. I know no one promised the car would be a rocket, but it was supposed to be solid. In my opinion, solid is not getting lit up by a Neon.

I can’t argue with the need for a progression to turbo, but this is not the 50’s, computer models can help work out many of the bugs that only time would revel in the past. The fact of the matter is that a modern sports car must first be quick, then be nimble. American culture has bred this desire for big HP, and fast acceleration. On that point Mazda missed the target. I can only assume that is why I am frustrated.

Every time someone has been interested in my car they ask “is it quick?” I usually start by saying no, not really. Then I begin to explain how well it handles, and at that very moment I see their eyes glaze over. Most people don’t care about that in a car. I think most 8 owners do, but not because it was initially important, but because that’s all we have to grab onto.

The SRT-4 point really touches a nerve. We all bought sports cars, and implicit with that is generally a desire to drive them to their limits. We want to accelerate fast, corner quickly, stop on a dime, and hit the top end.Most kids just want to accelerate quickly. They don't care about brakes, cornering or even styling of the car. Just look at the competition - most of them are updated econo boxes.


We spent a lot of money to get the 8, and to some extent we did so blindly. Aside from some articles are only impressions of the vehicle came from a test drive, an impressions which is generally too short to really get a feel for the car. Some of you even bought the car thinking it had more horsepower than it does. With that in mind, I know every one of you has gotten beaten by something that pissed you off. Whether it be a Neon, a Zed, or some riced out Honda.

I can’t argue with the need for a progression to turbo, but this is not the 50’s, computer models can help work out many of the bugs that only time would revel in the past. The fact of the matter is that a modern sports car must first be quick, then be nimble. American culture has bred this desire for big HP, and fast acceleration. On that point Mazda missed the target. I can only assume that is why I am frustrated.

Every time someone has been interested in my car they ask “is it quick?” I usually start by saying no, not really.No one asks me if my car is quick, but I frequently get asked if it's fast.

For $30,000, you could have bought a honda accord and riced it out to the max. If I bought your rx-8 from you for exactly what you paid for it, would you WANT to get the riced out honda? Would you WANT to get a souped up neon?

computer models don't tell you everything you need to know. case in point: the robots that apply the greese to the back of the defrost buttons in the earlier rx-8s put on too much, causing that button to crack several months down the road. How could they have predicted that? The renesis isn't 100% brand new, but they made enough changes to warrent some time to design and build the higher end version. Remember they don't get to say "woops, we didn't know it would blow up after 4,000 miles", they have to make sure it's functional.

The SRT-4 point really touches a nerve. We all bought sports cars, and implicit with that is generally a desire to drive them to their limits. We want to accelerate fast, corner quickly, stop on a dime, and hit the top end. We spent a lot of money to get the 8, and to some extent we did so blindly. Aside from some articles are only impressions of the vehicle came from a test drive, an impressions which is generally too short to really get a feel for the car. Some of you even bought the car thinking it had more horsepower than it does. With that in mind, I know every one of you has gotten beaten by something that pissed you off. Whether it be a Neon, a Zed, or some riced out Honda.

At that very minute you thought to yourself WTF? You questioned your decision and perhaps doubted all the hype that surrounded this car. I know no one promised the car would be a rocket, but it was supposed to be solid. In my opinion, solid is not getting lit up by a Neon.

I can’t argue with the need for a progression to turbo, but this is not the 50’s, computer models can help work out many of the bugs that only time would revel in the past. The fact of the matter is that a modern sports car must first be quick, then be nimble. American culture has bred this desire for big HP, and fast acceleration. On that point Mazda missed the target. I can only assume that is why I am frustrated.

Every time someone has been interested in my car they ask “is it quick?” I usually start by saying no, not really. Then I begin to explain how well it handles, and at that very moment I see their eyes glaze over. Most people don’t care about that in a car. I think most 8 owners do, but not because it was initially important, but because that’s all we have to grab onto.


Regardless of car...there will always be someone faster. There are Ford Pinto's out there faster than the 8. Big deal! The disappointment of the 8's power is a sore spot for alot of folk. But most knew that when they bought the car. Looking at the HP and TQ numbers they knew that. Yes....it looks fast. Even my wife thought I was full of crap when I told her my GT was faster than the 8 (I had to race her to prove it). You have a very nice looking car both in and out....appreciate it. You simply picked the wrong car if straight line speed is what your lookin for. You could have bought an 04 STI for 28K.

I had no desire to rice a car out. I will not be adding aftermarket parts or the like, just not my back of tricks. You're right there are always some things that can't be worked out in the models but I can almost gaurantee you that the Rensis motor has been tested just as extenisvely with aspiration as without. I'm not really up on Rotary performance but if I'm not mistaken weren't most of the previous incantations FI'd?

I had no desire to rice a car out. I will not be adding aftermarket parts or the like, just not my back of tricks. You're right there are always some things that can't be worked out in the models but I can almost gaurantee you that the Rensis motor has been tested just as extenisvely with aspiration as without. I'm not really up on Rotary performance but if I'm not mistaken weren't most of the previous incantations FI'd?

Yes...some of the Rx-7's were turbocharged. But the point of the renesis was to beable to make the power without the TC and save on gas milage (no wise cracks...:) )

As far as testing the renesis with FI, I highly doubt they have. Of all the tuners I have spoken with in my area, the renesis scares them and few want to touch it. Reason being, it is a redesigned motor, the max PSI may be 7, they feel that there will be alot of blown motors when people try and add FI and then start in with the ECU management and/or MBC/EBC. So no...I don't think mazda tested it with a TC.

I find that hard to believe considering all the hype you hear about Mazda's show cars. I know these things aren't full producition street machines, but I find it unlikely that they would take the time to show one if they couldn't produce it.

Additonally, when you go to market with a car you test everything from Turbo to Super. They probably found something that they didn't like and decided to stay away from the Turbo till they were pressed to make a faster 8. They better come up with something quick or the 8 will go the way of the 7. I just don't see a whole lot of people buying the 8 once the MS 6 hits the streets. I don't know if I would have bought this car, but if I was forced to get a Mazda and I had to choose between the 8 and the MS 6 the decision would be fairly simple.

I don't know about the other 'guys' but I like it because no other sedan from Japan in this price range offers such a complete package.

Subaru Legacy GT?

Obviously you are obsessed with the Pre-Mature Ejaculative state only torque and torque is all that matters...so you can hop light to light, beating the little teenage snot that pulls up next to you

I find that hard to believe considering all the hype you hear about Mazda's show cars. I know these things aren't full producition street machines, but I find it unlikely that they would take the time to show one if they couldn't produce it.

Additonally, when you go to market with a car you test everything from Turbo to Super. They probably found something that they didn't like and decided to stay away from the Turbo till they were pressed to make a faster 8. They better come up with something quick or the 8 will go the way of the 7. I just don't see a whole lot of people buying the 8 once the MS 6 hits the streets. I don't know if I would have bought this car, but if I was forced to get a Mazda and I had to choose between the 8 and the MS 6 the decision would be fairly simple.

Subaru Legacy GT?
I said 'complete package' meaning it can stop and corner as well as it can accelerate, has luxury features/conveniences, and is fun to drive. The Legacy, in my book, lacks all those.

It's fast, but it can't handle as well as a regular 6, let alone the M/S. It's right at or over $30k for the GT, but doesn't even offer HID, NAV, one-touch up/dwn windows, or keyless start, all of which the M/S will have. Nice car to look at, but not for me.

The SRT-4 point really touches a nerve. We all bought sports cars, and implicit with that is generally a desire to drive them to their limits. We want to accelerate fast, corner quickly, stop on a dime, and hit the top end. We spent a lot of money to get the 8, and to some extent we did so blindly. Aside from some articles are only impressions of the vehicle came from a test drive, an impressions which is generally too short to really get a feel for the car. Some of you even bought the car thinking it had more horsepower than it does. With that in mind, I know every one of you has gotten beaten by something that pissed you off. Whether it be a Neon, a Zed, or some riced out Honda.

Stop speaking for all 8 owners, will you? Not everyone has short dick syndrome or needs to be the fastest in order to feel like something special. I bought this car knowing damn well what I was getting and knowing it was what I wanted. And no, not every one of us has been beaten by something that pissed us off, because some of us are adults and act like it; we've outgrown street racing.

If you spent as much time behind the wheel learning how to drive your car as you do here bitching about how much you hate it, maybe you'd finally learn how to drive it properly.

They better come up with something quick or the 8 will go the way of the 7. I just don't see a whole lot of people buying the 8 once the MS 6 hits the streets.The 7 died due to pricing. Mazda thought they would price the RX-7 low, get a lot of people interested in it, then raise the price. Unfortunately it had the opposite effect, people asked themselves why would they spend 40 grand on a 30 thousand dollar car.

The RX-8 is priced to sell. While the RX-8 has some of the same features as the MS6 (like 4 doors), it really isn't in the same category and if you are looking at apples to apples, it also has no competitors. Mazda has not created an RX-8 killer with the MS6.

THis thread has really shown me that there are some really dense people out there when it comes to buying a car. Nobody forced any of these idiots to buy the car--what happened to the whole buying process (test drive, comparison shopping, and all)? Compared to the previous generation of japanese sports cars the RX8, G35, and 350Z are a couple of steps behind anyway. One of these clowns was talkin about for $450 a month blah blah blah--you knew the specs on the RX8 before you bought it so what are you bitching about? Common sense isn't so common I see. bur back on topic--the Mazdaspeed 6 kicks ass.

I find it extremely offensive that so many people degrade you for wanting a car that’s fast off the line. I don’t understand what’s so bad about that. Nor do I see the comparison between small dicks, and premature ejaculation. I can assure you I have a problem with these issues, but at the same time I do dislike the 8’s acceleration. With the way you get treated bring this topic up you would think I just advocated killing small children. If I have a problem with the acceleration you need to respect that, just as I respect your appreciation for the cars other features. If debates like this did not exist the club would have about 10 threads.


Coming into my purchase I was well aware of the 8’s shortcomings, but not fully informed on how extensive the acceleration issue was. I knew the car was low on ponies, but I believe that it’s weight, and gearing, propped it up. The issue for me isn’t 6 seconds, because that’s plenty fast, its how hard you have to beat it to get there. Dropping the clutch as 7,000 RPM’s is not acceptable, as you can only do that so many times before your buying a new clutch. In reality the 8 is somewhere around 7-7.5 seconds off the line. This is a fact that is not widely advertised in the magazines, shows, and articles describing the 8.

THis thread has really shown me that there are some really dense people out there when it comes to buying a car. Nobody forced any of these idiots to buy the car--what happened to the whole buying process (test drive, comparison shopping, and all)? Compared to the previous generation of japanese sports cars the RX8, G35, and 350Z are a couple of steps behind anyway. One of these clowns was talkin about for $450 a month blah blah blah--you knew the specs on the RX8 before you bought it so what are you bitching about? Common sense isn't so common I see. bur back on topic--the Mazdaspeed 6 kicks ass.

I suppose you would be referring to me as dense, and while your entitled to your opinion I can assure you that it's not true. I spent extensive time researching cars, and my goal was to get a well-balanced sports car. Using a combination of test drives, literature, and word of mouth, I settled on the 8. As I have already stated, feeling the 8's acceleration was difficult because I was not experienced with the manual transmission when I bought the car. There was no way to overcome this fault, because as most of us know the only way to learn stick well is to drive it every day, something I couldn't due without actually owning the car. Due to the HP difference between the Manual and the stick, I just had to trust the published acceleration times. This is a mistake I will never make again! I'm sure under the perfect conditions the 8 can achieve 6 seconds, but in reality the car is far slower than that. I'm disappointed and I feel like venting my frustration, that’s why I complain.

Horsepower aside, I believe I accomplished my task of purchasing a well-balanced sports car, so I believe my research and intuition served me well. In any case, I'm far from dense. I don’t believe it serves anyone well to start name-calling, this is a public forum designed to exchange ideas, and if you don’t like someone’s opinions don’t read their posts.

I said 'complete package' meaning it can stop and corner as well as it can accelerate, has luxury features/conveniences, and is fun to drive. The Legacy, in my book, lacks all those.

It's fast, but it can't handle as well as a regular 6, let alone the M/S. It's right at or over $30k for the GT, but doesn't even offer HID, NAV, one-touch up/dwn windows, or keyless start, all of which the M/S will have. Nice car to look at, but not for me.


First off the Legacy GT is not 30K. I don't know where you got that from but my 05 which I bought in August was 26K....cheaper than my 8. Secondly the stoping power and cornering of the Legacy is very good for a sport sedan and just by adding STI "Pink" springs improves it even moreso. So I think your comment about it not handling as well as the regular 6 is way off. I have driven both and can say that the 6 is no where near the car as the GT. Yes the GT is fast....and will still remain faster than the MS6 stock for stock.

Does it offer features such as HID and Nav....well...Subaru will be offering them on all 2005 models to be retrofit the first quarter of 05. The HID is nice...but navigation for my taste doesn't make or break the deal. If you don't know where the hell your going when you leave the house....stay home! The Legacy GT is not a Luxury sedan and has never been toughted at one. If you want your starbucks to stay toasty on the way to work than by a lexus.

Just so people start using it correctly:


Acceleration = A change in speed or direction.

The RX8 Accelerates just fine.

:D

Just so people start using it correctly:


Acceleration = A change in speed or direction.

The RX8 Accelerates just fine.

:D


Thank you for the literal definition, but the term commenly refers to how quickly a car goes from stopped to a certain speed.

Coming into my purchase I was well aware of the 8’s shortcomings, but not fully informed on how extensive the acceleration issue was. I knew the car was low on ponies, but I believe that it’s weight, and gearing, propped it up. The issue for me isn’t 6 seconds, because that’s plenty fast, its how hard you have to beat it to get there. Dropping the clutch as 7,000 RPM’s is not acceptable, as you can only do that so many times before your buying a new clutch. In reality the 8 is somewhere around 7-7.5 seconds off the line. This is a fact that is not widely advertised in the magazines, shows, and articles describing the 8.

it certainly isnt 7.5 seconds either (maybe with you its 7.5 seconds to 60 but you already admitted you dont drive over 7000 rpm anyway), peak torque is a nice sounding number, but the entire torque curve is what makes a car go...look up your physics and calculus and look at the area under the total torque curve and compare that to other cars and all of a sudden you may see differently, this car was designed to deliver torque over a large powerband, and guess what if you dont use it all you dont get it all. You don't have to dump a clutch to get maximum performance i find feathering from 4500 to 5000 gives me maximum road grip. but you dont really care right, you seem to enjoy self deprecation so keep at it...

I find it extremely offensive that so many people degrade you for wanting a car that’s fast off the line. I don’t understand what’s so bad about that. Nor do I see the comparison between small dicks, and premature ejaculation. I can assure you I have a problem with these issues, but at the same time I do dislike the 8’s acceleration. With the way you get treated bring this topic up you would think I just advocated killing small children. If I have a problem with the acceleration you need to respect that, just as I respect your appreciation for the cars other features. If debates like this did not exist the club would have about 10 threads.


Coming into my purchase I was well aware of the 8’s shortcomings, but not fully informed on how extensive the acceleration issue was. I knew the car was low on ponies, but I believe that it’s weight, and gearing, propped it up. The issue for me isn’t 6 seconds, because that’s plenty fast, its how hard you have to beat it to get there. Dropping the clutch as 7,000 RPM’s is not acceptable, as you can only do that so many times before your buying a new clutch. In reality the 8 is somewhere around 7-7.5 seconds off the line. This is a fact that is not widely advertised in the magazines, shows, and articles describing the 8.
I feel the car is somewhat quick, most noticed once past 3rd gear. That said one does have to punish the drivetrain to get fast launches. This combined with the rare grinding of 2nd gear shift which seems to happen no matter how deliberate the shift is disconcerting. I have been driving stick shift care for over 37 years so I feel this grinding is inherent to the transmission or shift gate. If this were to happen with high rpm shift say bye or at least damage to your transmission. I agree the manner of abuse to get published times is unacceptable.

Bob

it certainly isnt 7.5 seconds either (maybe with you its 7.5 seconds to 60 but you already admitted you dont drive over 7000 rpm anyway), peak torque is a nice sounding number, but the entire torque curve is what makes a car go...look up your physics and calculus and look at the area under the total torque curve and compare that to other cars and all of a sudden you may see differently, this car was designed to deliver torque over a large powerband, and guess what if you dont use it all you dont get it all. You don't have to dump a clutch to get maximum performance i find feathering from 4500 to 5000 gives me maximum road grip. but you dont really care right, you seem to enjoy self deprecation so keep at it...

I never said I don't drive over 7000, I just will not go from stopped dropping the clutch at that level. While I've got your attention, what do you mean by feather? When you accelerate using this technique do you get the burning smell?

Obviously you are obsessed with the Pre-Mature Ejaculative state only torque and torque is all that matters...so you can hop light to light, beating the little teenage snot that pulls up next to you

Was this comment necessary?

I said 'complete package' meaning it can stop and corner as well as it can accelerate, has luxury features/conveniences, and is fun to drive. The Legacy, in my book, lacks all those.

It's fast, but it can't handle as well as a regular 6, let alone the M/S. It's right at or over $30k for the GT, but doesn't even offer HID, NAV, one-touch up/dwn windows, or keyless start, all of which the M/S will have. Nice car to look at, but not for me.

Did you drive one? or are you going by magazine reviews? I think you should visit you local Subaru Dealer (too much NPR for me... :p ) and take a look at it...again. Because..."Subaru, driven by what's inside."

First off the Legacy GT is not 30K. I don't know where you got that from but my 05 which I bought in August was 26K....cheaper than my 8. Secondly the stoping power and cornering of the Legacy is very good for a sport sedan and just by adding STI "Pink" springs improves it even moreso. So I think your comment about it not handling as well as the regular 6 is way off. I have driven both and can say that the 6 is no where near the car as the GT. Yes the GT is fast....and will still remain faster than the MS6 stock for stock.

Just have a question about your last sentence....how do you know?

I never said I don't drive over 7000, I just will not go from stopped dropping the clutch at that level. While I've got your attention, what do you mean by feather? When you accelerate using this technique do you get the burning smell?

nope no smell because although its a very fast technique it takes a measure of finesse that you cant have dumping a clutch (while im sure this wears it out fast too, its not noticeable). rev up to desired rpm, let clutch go slightly to engage, and increase pressure on the accelerator coincidentally with your lifting off the clutch pedal. (you'll get faster at this with practice but start slow) Should feel the car surge forward but you wont get the same amount of tire spin as a clutch dump, you will get a little bit, but will catch asphalt very quickly and when you do you're accelerating in the good power band.

the key is on not mashing the gas, but methodically pushing the gas harder as you lift your foot off the clutch.

Do most of you guys who give the 8 a quick start from a stopped position, feel like your abusing the car? Anytime I take of quick, I honestly feel like something’s going to break? In my experience if it feels that way you should back off!

I have never really owned a sports car so I don't know if this is unusual but the RX-8 just feels really delicate when I drive it. Every time I mash it hard I worry about breaking it. Have any of the guys who owned something sport before the 8 experienced this in their former cars?

Do most of you guys who give the 8 a quick start from a stopped position, feel like your abusing the car? Anytime I take of quick, I honestly feel like something’s going to break? In my experience if it feels that way you should back off!

I have never really owned a sports car so I don't know if this is unusual but the RX-8 just feels really delicate when I drive it. Every time I mash it hard I worry about breaking it. Have any of the guys who owned something sport before the 8 experienced this in their former cars?

not at all sports cars are designed to go and go fast. i feel if im not driving the 8 fast im doing something wrong to it, it was designed to rev high and handle at maximum tolerances, remember the thing was partially designed by a race car driver.
ive driven a 240SX and on a few occassions a porsche 996 C4 and i can say both those cars never felt delicate. Same here.

I've seen this video before, and the car looks impressive, but something strange is afoot. I'm convinced that Mazda greased his pockets. Although the 8 is easier for a beginer to drive fast, a true proffesional driving both cars could easily put up a better time in the 350z. Then they get really silly and rank it with the M3. I don't know how scientific the laps were, but the RX-8 can't hold a candle to the M3.

This is one of the articles that convinced me to go with the RX-8 over the Zed. If I was going to defend the 8, this is the video I would use. I just don't buy their results.


The Trap speeds on the 350z and the Rx8 are very close, 92, and 95 mph I think. And as for how well he drove the 8 in the video, I think there is actually much room for improvement. He was all over the track, and lost the back end alot. I think if he really worked at it, he could get the time down. I am currently looking for the 350z video to compare.

The Trap speeds on the 350z and the Rx8 are very close, 92, and 95 mph I think.

Actually the 350z traps around 100 mph on average.

Pkskull - I know what you mean about the RX8 needing to be rung out to beat the average SUV. While the RX8 is certainly quicker at any speed, at low speeds most cars/trucks are fairly quick. Especially when they have a boat load of low end torque (full size trucks). It's at the high end that sports car really shine and easily pull away. And by high end I mean 60mph+.

Also, don't worry about your clutch with high rpm shifts. 90% of the wear and tear on a clutch is getting started. Up and down shifts hardly do a thing. The RX8 needs all 9000 rpms to feel quick, imposing a 7000 rpm limit would drastically reduce maximum acceleration.

Actually the 350z traps around 100 mph on average.

Pkskull - I know what you mean about the RX8 needing to be rung out to beat the average SUV. While the RX8 is certainly quicker at any speed, at low speeds most cars/trucks are fairly quick. Especially when they have a boat load of low end torque (full size trucks). It's at the high end that sports car really shine and easily pull away. And by high end I mean 60mph+.

Also, don't worry about your clutch with high rpm shifts. 90% of the wear and tear on a clutch is getting started. Up and down shifts hardly do a thing. The RX8 needs all 9000 rpms to feel quick, imposing a 7000 rpm limit would drastically reduce maximum acceleration.


Thanks for paying attention to what I was saying, as soon as most people see the 8 and acceleration in the same sentence they start flaming. I do not impose a 7000 rpm limit, I just will not drop the clutch from a stop that high. I have taken the 8 all the way to the top.

Just have a question about your last sentence....how do you know?


The MS6 Numbers are out there... :)

The MS6 Numbers are out there... :)

and as we all know the numbers dont tell you anything about how the car drives or feels...just what professionals were able to wring out of what they were given.

This is especially difficult becuase I am a car fanatic, I love driving, and love sports cars.
Based on your statements so far I think all of these clauses are false. You may think they are true, but the reality is different. If you love driving and love sports cars you should love this car because it's a great sports car (or at least a really good 4 seat sports car-like car). Sports cars are about handling, something that almost never comes up in your complaints. For a sports car the turns are the thing (lateral acceleration). If cornering or suspensions don't interest you most then you shopped in the wrong car category.

Since almost all your whinings are about linear acceleration and suburban drag racing, you need a muscle car or a sporty/sports sedan. If most of your thinking involves straight lines then you shouldn't even be interested in sports cars, let alone love them.

Almost all of my commuting involves straight line driving, but I have a great time with my 8. There's about 10 minutes of suburban stop lights, but accelerating in a straight line to the next light holds no interest for me. Then it's about 20 minutes of freeway driving, which is pretty boring. But between those two is a moderately tight, two-lane 270º on-ramp that is great source of fun. I love the way the car's weight shifts on the turn as I adjust the gas pedal, the squeal of the tires on those days I'm feeling really spirited, bringing the car to the outside on the exit, the whine of the engine as it approaches the redline...and especially when there's a muscle car or sports sedan right behind me on the entrance (or better yet, in front of me with the other lane open), and by the time they get to the freeway I'm 200 yds downrange and they're just a dot in my mirror. That single turn makes the whole drive fun; the anticipation, the turn, and the remembering. It's what sports cars are all about.

I've been in the company car and driven by turns with elevation changes or bumps and wished that I had my 8 and how much fun it would be to take those turns. Someday I may even drive the hour it'll take just so I can take those turns a few times. If you don't think like that then you don't want a sports car.

And the MSP Mazda6 looks interesting (but heavy)...just to get it back on topic.

Based on your statements so far I think all of these clauses are false. You may think they are true, but the reality is different. If you love driving and love sports cars you should love this car because it's a great sports car (or at least a really good 4 seat sports car-like car). Sports cars are about handling, something that almost never comes up in your complaints. For a sports car the turns are the thing (lateral acceleration). If cornering or suspensions don't interest you most then you shopped in the wrong car category.

Since almost all your whinings are about linear acceleration and suburban drag racing, you need a muscle car or a sporty/sports sedan. If most of your thinking involves straight lines then you shouldn't even be interested in sports cars, let alone love them.

Almost all of my commuting involves straight line driving, but I have a great time with my 8. There's about 10 minutes of suburban stop lights, but accelerating in a straight line to the next light holds no interest for me. Then it's about 20 minutes of freeway driving, which is pretty boring. But between those two is a moderately tight, two-lane 270º on-ramp that is great source of fun. I love the way the car's weight shifts on the turn as I adjust the gas pedal, the squeal of the tires on those days I'm feeling really spirited, bringing the car to the outside on the exit, the whine of the engine as it approaches the redline...and especially when there's a muscle car or sports sedan right behind me on the entrance (or better yet, in front of me with the other lane open), and by the time they get to the freeway I'm 200 yds downrange and they're just a dot in my mirror. That single turn makes the whole drive fun; the anticipation, the turn, and the remembering. It's what sports cars are all about.

I've been in the company car and driven by turns with elevation changes or bumps and wished that I had my 8 and how much fun it would be to take those turns. Someday I may even drive the hour it'll take just so I can take those turns a few times. If you don't think like that then you don't want a sports car.

And the MSP Mazda6 looks interesting (but heavy)...just to get it back on topic.

i love clover leafs, too bad im going too fast to see other peoples baffled reactions to a car passing them that fast on a clover leaf.

First off the Legacy GT is not 30K. I don't know where you got that from but my 05 which I bought in August was 26K....cheaper than my 8. Secondly the stoping power and cornering of the Legacy is very good for a sport sedan and just by adding STI "Pink" springs improves it even moreso. So I think your comment about it not handling as well as the regular 6 is way off. I have driven both and can say that the 6 is no where near the car as the GT. Yes the GT is fast....and will still remain faster than the MS6 stock for stock.
I meant GT Limited (which seems to be an appropriate moniker), since all the ones I've seen were $30k or above. I'm sure since you bought one you believe the Legacy handles and stops better than the 6, but it doesn't in my book, and test data backs up my opinion. C&D got .81g on the skidpad and 196ft from 70 mph for the LGT back in the Oct. 04. Not only is that worse than all the other cars tested, it's worse than the 6s.

Does it offer features such as HID and Nav....well...Subaru will be offering them on all 2005 models to be retrofit the first quarter of 05. The HID is nice...but navigation for my taste doesn't make or break the deal. If you don't know where the hell your going when you leave the house....stay home! The Legacy GT is not a Luxury sedan and has never been toughted at one. If you want your starbucks to stay toasty on the way to work than by a lexus.
Subaru has aspirations to move upmarket in the automotive chain, they've publicly said so. My point is, if they want to charge near-luxury car prices, justify it with luxury features.

Did you drive one? or are you going by magazine reviews? I think you should visit you local Subaru Dealer (too much NPR for me... :p ) and take a look at it...again. Because..."Subaru, driven by what's inside."

Yes, I've driven a Legacy, both the GT and the so-called Ltd. If they lowered the price about $4k respectively, it might feel like something special. But to me it's overpriced and underperforming (excluding acceleration).

I meant GT Limited (which seems to be an appropriate moniker), since all the ones I've seen were $30k or above. I'm sure since you bought one you believe the Legacy handles and stops better than the 6, but it doesn't in my book, and test data backs up my opinion. C&D got .81g on the skidpad and 196ft from 70 mph for the LGT back in the Oct. 04. Not only is that worse than all the other cars tested, it's worse than the 6s.


Subaru has aspirations to move upmarket in the automotive chain, they've publicly said so. My point is, if they want to charge near-luxury car prices, justify it with luxury features.


Again...I don't know where your looking, but even the limited doesn't go above 30K; thats STI land. I didn't by one because I think the Legacy handles or stops better than the 6. I bought one because the of the performance of the engine....something the 6 doesn't offer (even the v6) and AWD. Yes, C&D rated the legacy 3rd overall behind the TSX and Volvo S40 and at the same time Road and Track rated it better than both....go figure.

Skid pad numbers and braking distances can vary a bit depending on what tires are on the car. I know the Stock Legacy's tires suck and were the first thing to get tossed off the car. Bottom line is performance wise the 6 compares nothing to the Legacy. The MS6 is close...but performance numbers still show it almost a full second slower than the GT in 0-60 and 1/4 miles times.

Like I said...I have no clue where your lookin, but you can get a 05 Legacy from 24K-28K at best. So no...you are not getting X included in the Legacy for 30K.

All I can say is when I see the MS 8 I will laugh. I will think back to this guy. He goes and buys a MS 6 because it was released two years after the 8 and was faster (somehow I doubt it will be much faster if it is), but then Mazda releases another car in two more years that is faster than his MS6. I can already see this coming on the 6 boards ;).

Again...I don't know where your looking, but even the limited doesn't go above 30K; thats STI land.
Guess again. You've crosssed $30k if you buy an automatic Ltd. and can easily get there with a manual Ltd with a few accessories.

I didn't by one because I think the Legacy handles or stops better than the 6. I bought one because the of the performance of the engine....something the 6 doesn't offer (even the v6) and AWD.
Yeah, well, I'd never 'by' one because I think the Legacy handles and stops worse than the 6 and I'm NOT impressed by the engine or even the AWD. You know how it is, to each their own.

Yes, C&D rated the legacy 3rd overall behind the TSX and Volvo S40 and at the same time Road and Track rated it better than both....go figure.
I see why it lost so badly in the C&D comparo, but can't figure out how it won the other one. Go figure indeed.

Bottom line is performance wise the 6 compares nothing to the Legacy. The MS6 is close...but performance numbers still show it almost a full second slower than the GT in 0-60 and 1/4 miles times.
Substitute 'performance' for 'acceleration' next time, because that's the ONLY thing Legacy has on the 6. Official (keyword) M/S6 numbers have NOT been released (please spare us the 6.6 second thing since that's an estimate and a conservative one at that), but the Legacy will likely be faster to 60 since it's lighter than the M/S6. I'm certain it will continue to run rings around the Legacy in everything else though.

Like I said...I have no clue where your lookin, but you can get a 05 Legacy from 24K-28K at best. So no...you are not getting X included in the Legacy for 30K.
If it was $24k BEFORE discounts and negotiations, then it'll be a good deal. But to me, even $24k seems too much for so little.

All I can say is when I see the MS 8 I will laugh. I will think back to this guy. He goes and buys a MS 6 because it was released two years after the 8 and was faster (somehow I doubt it will be much faster if it is), but then Mazda releases another car in two more years that is faster than his MS6. I can already see this coming on the 6 boards .

Now you see what I'm on the 8 board. I have a 6, disappointed in the MPS 6, the recent annoucement that the MPS 3 is FWD...so here I am, waiting for the MPS 8...or maybe something with a slightly lower # :).

I don't know why you guys are so angry at your cars. The 8 is an absolutely beautiful vehicle, thats INSANELY fast. It is going to utterly dominate B Stock in Autoxing this year...just watch and see.

What I seriously recommend (if you aren't happy with your car), is to attend some driving schools. If your luckily enough to be in an area with some road courses, look for when driver education programs are occuring.

Heres two in the VA/MD/DC area!
http://www.virclub.com
http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/

You'll learn to drive better, learn to enjoy your car more, and enjoy passing vehicles which you'd think were "impossible" to pass. Even better...the person your passing has to wave you by, so it puts a nice sized grin on your face :).

If your looking for more specific training, check out...

http://solo.wdcr-scca.org/noviceSchool.php
The weekday autocrossing is excellent if you can get enough people to bring the cost down.

Also check out...
http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

Everyone can learn to be a better driver, regardless of make or model vehicle. Some insurance companies will even knock off some $$ if you show them your actively taking "driver education" courses.

I've attended the evo school myself, and will be going back for phase 2 before the season next year, as well as attending vir's new opening later in 05. I know I'm not a good driver, but I'm working to improve :).

In the 8s reliability defense--I have not had any issues with my RX8--also N/A rotaries have typically gone well over 200,000miles. The FD is an exception because Mazda used some weak components in the cooling area of the 13B--plus the extra stresses from the added boost.

Yes if I could forsee the future, and know that an RX8 would last 200k miles, I'd have a very tough time not buying one.

However, the highest millage I've seen on one is about 30k, so there really isn't much info on this area yet.

Ofcourse the same could be said about a Turbo Charged Direct Fuel Injection Gas Engine.

Where can I read more about the Turbo and Supercharger kits that might become available for the Rx8?

There there is the rareness. The MS6 will likely be much more rare, than the 8, but will likely not catch as many looks.On the other hand, there are many many more 6's on the road than 8's, your MS6 will look like any other 6 with a body kit.

I am torn between a car that will be fast, handle well, with room to spare, and a slightly less practical, yet sexy eye catcher, with a unique yet quirky engine.

Uhhh....Ferrari 456? Would work for me :)

Back to topic ...

Either car would be hard to improve with after market add ons.

Turbo vs. NA...the MS6 will be very easy and cheap to add power. We'll likely see a chip upgrade within a year that will move the hp north of 300hp.


It rarely snows here in Birmingham, AL, so I'll likely not need the AWD, but I am curious as to how that will improve my wet weather and cornering.


I've got an EVO and live in Austin where the worst we ever get is ice (for maybe a day). It's truely amazing the difference in traction between 2wd and AWD in wet conditions. With AWD you can accelerate as fast in wet as you can in dry. The only times I can get my tires to spin is from a stop with a 5000 rpm clutch drop, and even then it's barely a chirp.

AWD does handle better in wet as well but I don't really push it. I don't like the idea of wrecking my car or putting other people in danger just because I wanted to take a corner quickly in bad weather.

AWD also comes in handy when you need extreme acceleration from a stop. Situations like a left turn across a busy unprotected intersection. There's no need to worry about giving it too much gas and spining the wheels...just gas, clutch, and go. This is one of my favorite aspects of AWD.

On the downside, AWD can be very tough on a clutch or drivetrain. With big horsepower and unlimited traction, the stress of a quick start goes somewhere. For me, I never side step the clutch (as some other EVO owners do) but I do let the clutch out quick. This takes some of the shock off of the drivetrain but at the expense of a little clutch wear. When done properly there is very little clutch wear, when done improperly there is a lot of clutch wear. This is really the tricky side of AWD.

I won't bet on fast "easy" MS6 upgrades. They've been working for 2+ years to crack the 6's ECU...and are just "now" getting to the point where we might be able to get some sort of flasher. (In another 6-12 months).

Some companies have mentioned they would like to buy one for the purpose of doing various performance parts for it, but companies like to say stuff like that :).

Of course being boosted means easier routes to power, especially considering the MPS uses the standard basic 6i exhaust lay out. With another 100 hp, the car will definitely be able to keep up with the competition! Just gotta watch out for the 94mm stroke of the engine...the rods are definitely the weakest part of the engine. Supposed to be using thick (different then standard 6i) rods, which should give it alot more elbow room to work with.

I just wish it didn't weigh 500lbs more then a standard 6i mtx :(.

All I can say is when I see the MS 8 I will laugh. I will think back to this guy. He goes and buys a MS 6 because it was released two years after the 8 and was faster (somehow I doubt it will be much faster if it is), but then Mazda releases another car in two more years that is faster than his MS6. I can already see this coming on the 6 boards ;).
I sure hope this wasn't directed at me. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm (strongly considering) buying the M/S6 because I like what I see, not because it's faster than my 8. I'm past teenage years and have no short dick issues, ergo speed is way down on my list of priorities.

I sure hope this wasn't directed at me. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm (strongly considering) buying the M/S6 because I like what I see, not because it's faster than my 8. I'm past teenage years and have no short dick issues, ergo speed is way down on my list of priorities.

No, I was referring to Pkskullz, but it holds true for anybody who would buy the MS6 after it came out because it was faster and they were upset Mazda made something faster than the RX8.

Gotcha. Wasn't sure, but that's kinda what I was thinking, since he seems a bit manic about having a fast car.

No, I was referring to Pkskullz, but it holds true for anybody who would buy the MS6 after it came out because it was faster and they were upset Mazda made something faster than the RX8.

I can assure you that I have no intention of picking up the Mazda Speed 6. Aside from the number I don't like the car. I was only upset by the difference in HP, and acceleration performance. If I wanted a Sedan, I would go for the EVO or the STI.

Gotcha. Wasn't sure, but that's kinda what I was thinking, since he seems a bit manic about having a fast car.

I'm hardly manic about having a fast car, I'm simply confused about Mazda's reasoning for releasing a Sedan that's faster than their Sports Car. Just doesn't make sense to me.

I also don't understand why Mazda waits 2 years to realease a version of the car they could build right now. Instead of giving us the choice between a tame version (the current 8) and a Turbo Charged version (MS Speed) now, the want us to buy the faster one later on. Essentially, they make two sales for the price of one. Just silly.

Ah ok. So you're just "obsessed" instead. Gotcha.

wow, so from what I've read this skull dude was "forced" to buy an RX8 and hates it? I just can't remember the last time I was "forced" to buy a 30,000 car, geez, must suck to be you :rolleyes: I just don't understand this thread and similar threads, the car is amazing, if it sucked so bad why hasn't it been toast in all the comparos that were done with it? I'm not sure where but I know I saw a long time ago where someone on this board had listed all the "victories" the 8 had against other cars like the 350z etc. in all the comparisons. It even surviced the Top Gear Guy, did you see his review on the Crossfire? The guy is completely brutal and even he liked the 8, and if you have watched any of the past episodes where he didn't like something he wasn't shy about it. I really feel bad for people such as pk, if a car such as this does not make you happy (even just a little) then you have problems the size of which I cannot even begin to comprehend. I hope for your sake that whatever it is that has soured you so heavily is remedied quickly as it can't be healthy to walk around that frickin' miserable. :confused:

Mazda has stated before they are about weight, not HP. They have never made the fastest cars on the block, just tried to make the lightest and best handling in every model. The 3rd gen RX-7 had less HP than all of its competitors, but weighed a lot less making it a much more enjoyable car to drive in my opinion.

Why did Mazda make the RX-8 naturally aspirated? Most important was probably because it is better for racing. It fits in better with the "total package" sports car you keep talking about.

You keep whining about how slow the RX-8 is and how hard to launch it is, well you can't expect a car with IRS and low torque to accelerate fast in the low RPMS. Higher torque at low RPMS means higher HP at those RPMs which means faster acceleration at those RPMs. The thing is these cars start dropping off torque around 4000-5000RPM maybe this is what you are used to driving. The RX-8 has pretty strong torque all the way up to 9000RPM. If you are making 140 lb ft of torque at 3000RPM thats 80HP, same at 5000RPM is 133HP, if your shifting at 7000RPM thats 186HP, and at 9000RPM thats 240HP.

HP is a measurement of power over time whereas torque is a measurement of force. If you are racing the RX-8 against say a car with say 240 torque and he is going from 3000RPM to 6000RPM thats 137HP at 3000RPM 228HP at 5000RPM and 274HP @ 6000RPM. So he is making from 137HP to 274HP from 3000-6000RPM. With the RX-8 3000RPM would be 80HP 5000RPM would be 133HP and 160HP at 6000RPM.

So if you are both staying around the same power range 3000-6000RPM the RX-8 is using between 80-160HP and the other car is using between 137HP and 274HP. Given both cars are around the same weight etc. which do you think will accelerate faster??

Now compare the RX-8 going from 6000RPM making 160HP to 7500RPM is 200HP and 240HP at 9000RPM. If you are accelerating at full throttle in the RX-8 and you shift around 9000RPM you should be around 5500-6000RPM in the next gear etc so you are always in your power band. Dont you think 160-240HP is quite a difference in acceleration than 80-160? This is why the RX-8 in naturally aspirated form will never be a fast car off the line unless you are launching it to where you are already at 4000 or 5000RPM , and why it seems liek you have to drive it hard to go fast, because your HP is in the higher RPMS.

I'm hardly manic about having a fast car, I'm simply confused about Mazda's reasoning for releasing a Sedan that's faster than their Sports Car. Just doesn't make sense to me.

.

because you are talking about the regular version of car b versus the MSpeed version of car a. the MSpeed RX-8 will be better/faster/quicker than the MSpeed 6.


I also don't understand why Mazda waits 2 years to realease a version of the car they could build right now.

they cant build the MSpeed 8 right now. it is still in developement stage. they will sell it when it is ready.

Instead of giving us the choice between a tame version (the current 8) and a Turbo Charged version (MS Speed) now, the want us to buy the faster one later on. Essentially, they make two sales for the price of one. Just silly.

You're right it is EXTREMELY silly for a company that is in business to make a profit to get you to buy 2 of their products. i cant understand how that makes sense either :rolleyes:

I hate to say it, but I think you bought the wrong car. If what you are worried about is getting "dusted" in drag races then you should get something different. I am fairly confident that if you took your car to a track you could at least keep up with these other sports cars provided equal drivers, and for sure beat the 6.
i agree, the 8 isn't a drag car (although i can keep it within a car length of a local 350z) take it to the track and watch how stable she is in the corners and how easily you can steer it with the throttle. and with perfect 50/50 weight and LSD, the car is a wonderful drifter (just watch the temp gauge if you do it)!

I also don't understand why Mazda waits 2 years to realease a version of the car they could build right now. Instead of giving us the choice between a tame version (the current 8) and a Turbo Charged version (MS Speed) now, the want us to buy the faster one later on. Essentially, they make two sales for the price of one. Just silly. Every car company on the planet does the same thing. Just look at the 3-series for example - first the E46 comes out. Then a little while later the convertible version comes out. Then the M3 comes out. Then they upgrade the 328 to the 330. Then they have a cosmetic update. Then the 330 "performance package" comes out... They can't release all the versions at once because they don't have the engineering resources, plus they get more PR this way and probably make more sales by always having the latest new thing to entice people with.

All of you make valid points, and for the most part I agree, however I do have a couple points of contention:


Please stop telling me that the car will only go fast if you keep the RPM’s high. I understand that the RPM’s must be kept high to keep the Rensis in it’s sweet spot. People keep reiterating this point, responding to my statement that “LAUNCHING THE CAR AT 7,000 RPM’s IS OUT OF THE QUESTION!” I never said that you couldn’t shift the car at the higher RPM’s; I do that all the time. I did say that shifting at higher RPM’s is more likely to wear your clutch.


I understand Mazda is a business and as such they are entitled to make a profit, but I don’t have to like the fact that they are doing it at my expense. Furthermore, you can’t possibly believe that Mazda didn’t experiment with FI when they were designing the RX8! Mazda has know for quite some time exactly what system works best with the 8, and I would be willing to bet that there were working versions of the 8 running FI when the model we have was released. The investment Mazda put into the 8 was huge and as such they likely had designed and built several version of the car before deciding the one that best fit their product line. Can I prove any of what I said, no, but don't doubt it for a second.


I, like a lot of people who own an RX-8 don’t really care about how the car drives on a track, that’s not where I drive it. I understand that the 8 handles its self well on a road course, and I find that impressive. However, I have also seen an 8 get eaten up on a track when it came out of the turns, and onto the straits (There’s a video of it floating around here somewhere). In any case, I can’t use most of the performance an 8 offers on the road. I can’t go around a turn at 50, and kick out the backend. Top End is useless, because I can’t drive 140 mph. I do however accelerate frequently, and the car is not good at that.

I know what’s coming, dragging your car is just as illegal as any of the activities you mention above, and you’re right. However, there's a catch. If I end up first at a traffic light, and the person next to me wants to give it a quick run, I can do so without breaking any laws. If I don’t light up the wheels and stop accelerating when I hit the posted speed there’s not much a cop can do. In my previous examples there are no legal ways to perform them on the street. I would never do this in front of a cop, but this happens a million times a day without incident. If you’re the type who goes looking for races, and tries to win them at any cost, that’s a different story. Everyone on this forum has gone light to light, if you haven’t then there is something wrong with you.


I knew the concept behind the 8 when I bought it, and I was well aware of the numbers that were associated with the car. But the experience on a test drive and through the words of an article never adequately described the cars lack of power. I have already admitted this was a mistake on my part, and I only brought it up in this thread to demonstrate the difference between the 8 and the MS6. I also realize that the 8 is a better sports car, but for the time being the MS6 is a faster car off the line, and I find this disturbing. I can wait a couple of years and buy an MS 8, or I can go aftermarket on mine when it comes out of warranty, but that doesn’t make me feel any better now. AND NO I CAN’T JUST RUN OUT AND BUY ANOTHER CAR, I’m stuck with the 8, and I will try and make the best of it. I'm just using this forum to vent my frustrations.


Finally, allow me to comment on the “unwritten prohibition” of bashing the 8. I know this forum is primarily comprised of people who own the RX-8. I can understand wanting to keep the forum positive, the site wasn’t created to bash our car. This concept is something that I can respect. However, it is silly to flame someone who legitimately wants to talk about the 8’s problems. If I'm bashing please feel free to go point for point with me on the issue, but don’t turn it into a personal thing. This is all about the exchange of ideas, not about censorship in an effort to make the 8 seem like a flawless car.

Hey PK, after reading your posts I can understand where your fustration comes from. You probably bought the wrong car that doesnt suit your needs- and that sucks big time cos its such a big investment.

The 8 is a great car, but like every car it has its flaws. Instead of getting so upset, why not try to focus on the good points of the car and make full use of the next 4 years instead of getting so fustrated. Learn to drive a stick well in the meantime too, cos its a valuable skill u cld use for your future rides ;) cheer up

If I end up first at a traffic light, and the person next to me wants to give it a quick run, I can do so without breaking any laws. If I don’t light up the wheels and stop accelerating when I hit the posted speed there’s not much a cop can do.They can give you a ticket for anything. In your example, you would get a ticket for 'exhibition of speed'

Finally, allow me to comment on the “unwritten prohibition” of bashing the 8. I know this forum is primarily comprised of people who own the RX-8. I can understand wanting to keep the forum positive, the site wasn’t created to bash our car. This concept is something that I can respect. However, it is silly to flame someone who legitimately wants to talk about the 8’s problems.I agree with you that real issues should be discussed, and if you browse the forum, you will see that we do discuss real issues. I also have to disagree with you and say that you don't have a legit complaint. The people who weren't sure about their purchase, have all leased. It is a first year car, and in your case, you didn't even know how to drive a manual. You made assumptions, based your decisions on what magazines said (Imagine if you bought a Crossfire ;) ), all of which were your fault, not someone elses.

even gingerly accelerating im faster than 90% of cars out there in general traffic, i have no idea why anyone considers this car slow(unless you compare it only with sports cars, although i havent heard many call a porsche boxter slow, and the 8 is faster than a boxter)...if you are talking about on the streets this car accelerates plenty well, and pskull you say you only drive on the streets and that you never race, so frankly the acceleration should be enough how much more do you need?

PK, I can't say that I don't understand where you are comming from. And having not yet purchased my RX8, I appreciate your comments as it does weight on my decision.

I too want to have a car that can move, having that punch, both impresses your passengers and makes you feel good about your purchase, even if you don't use it to race others.



The Mazda 6 sells for 22-23 fully loaded. I just spoke with the salesman, and the MS6 will be 26-27. So basically you get a 6 + Turbo, and Suspension for 5 or 6 grand more.

It will cost a tad more than the 8 I plan to buy.

Now, if those were the only choices, the 8 would still in my book be even with the MS6, because of how much better it handles, and how much better it looks.

Yet there is another option. Put a Turbo in your RX8, and problem solved. The Turbo's for the RX8 will be out before the MS6. It will cost about 4-5k, and give you alot more power than the MS6. An RX8 with 300 BHP, will pretty much own anything stock on the road, except maybe a Viper, and it would give a Viper a heck of a run for its money.


Now you say Hey WAIT! I already bought a Car, why would I spend another 5k on it? Well if Mazda, had put the Turbo in the car, it would have cost another 4-5k, and wouldn't have near the 300BHP that the aftermarket turbos are targetting.

They can give you a ticket for anything. In your example, you would get a ticket for ' exhibition of speed'

They could do that, but it's unlikely. Any ticket that punishes acceleration is a difficult win in court, absent any behavior that shocks the conscience; you can usually get the charges dropped. In a situation like this the cop has to testify to his subjective observations on excessive acceleration, and it’s easy to cross examine, and elicit favorable testimony. Just to avoid the frustration most prosecutors don’t bother. On the other hand speeding is something easy to testify to, “My radar guns said 95.” I would say 99% of the people who get nailed for street racing do so because they break the posted speed limit, or they do something like burnout.

PK, I can't say that I don't understand where you are comming from. And having not yet purchased my RX8, I appreciate your comments as it does weight on my decision.

I too want to have a car that can move, having that punch, both impresses your passengers and makes you feel good about your purchase, even if you don't use it to race others.



The Mazda 6 sells for 22-23 fully loaded. I just spoke with the salesman, and the MS6 will be 26-27. So basically you get a 6 + Turbo, and Suspension for 5 or 6 grand more.

It will cost a tad more than the 8 I plan to buy.

Now, if those were the only choices, the 8 would still in my book be even with the MS6, because of how much better it handles, and how much better it looks.

Yet there is another option. Put a Turbo in your RX8, and problem solved. The Turbo's for the RX8 will be out before the MS6. It will cost about 4-5k, and give you alot more power than the MS6. An RX8 with 300 BHP, will pretty much own anything stock on the road, except maybe a Viper, and it would give a Viper a heck of a run for its money.


Now you say Hey WAIT! I already bought a Car, why would I spend another 5k on it? Well if Mazda, had put the Turbo in the car, it would have cost another 4-5k, and wouldn't have near the 300BHP that the aftermarket turbos are targetting.


Very valid points, but I'm not interested in modding my car until the warranty is up. If you FI that car every bit of the powertrain warranty is gone. Thats especially troubling considering the unproven track record of the Rensis. It would be though to pay for a new engine when the problem was something that was happening to all 8's, and being replaced under the warranty. Also, to me adding an aftermarket turbo kit cheapens the thrill. It makes me feel like a ricer.

However, if you can afford to blow your engine, and have the money for a Turbo kit, then go for it. You sure would suprise a ton of knowlegable drivers when you blew by their car. Good luck with your purchase. Just do yourself a favor and test drive the car for a long time. Try flogging it, and if the salesman says anything don't be afraid to tell him to chill out.

even gingerly accelerating im faster than 90% of cars out there in general traffic, i have no idea why anyone considers this car slow(unless you compare it only with sports cars, although i havent heard many call a porsche boxter slow, and the 8 is faster than a boxter)...if you are talking about on the streets this car accelerates plenty well, and pskull you say you only drive on the streets and that you never race, so frankly the acceleration should be enough how much more do you need?

I need enough to hold my own against a sports car. Soccer moms are not the ones who want to go, it's the people who know the 8 is slow, and have cars which can pull on it. Most people think the 8 is fast, and don't bother in their econo boxes. So yes the 8 is faster than most cars out there, but not faster than the ones that will actually want to go for a run. You bring up a good point with the Boxter, can't argue, but I wouldn't buy one if I was in the market today.

According to your profile, you are not 16 years old. So why do you care so much about driving in a straight line? The curves are where it's at. The reason why you are not enjoying your car is because you are not trying to. Keep practicing your shift technique and learn how to corner. Maybe someday you'll beat those SUVs you are having trouble with. :rolleyes:

According to your profile, you are not 16 years old. So why do you care so much about driving in a straight line? The curves are where it's at. The reason why you are not enjoying your car is because you are not trying to. Keep practicing your shift technique and learn how to corner. Maybe someday you'll beat those SUVs you are having trouble with. :rolleyes:

Wanting to go fast in a strait line is not a sighn of of immaturity, just something some people like to do from time to time. Once again I’m not asking for Viper speed, I just don’t want to get smoked by every sports car on the road. I appreciate the handling, but it’s not everything. In my opinion Mazda just did not strike a good balance between power, and handling. The sad part is that it would not have been that difficult for them to add a couple more ponies. The car would be that much better.

My argument has very little to do with other car brands, quite frankly I have learned to deal with the fact that the 8 is not a fast car. What bothers me is making the 6 faster than the 8? Modern car companies generally follow a formula in determining the performance, and pricing of their cars. Following that logic, you don’t build an economy car, and make it faster than your sports car. Now that the MS 6 will be the big kid on the block, who the heck is going to buy the 8? What does the 8 offer that the 6 doesn’t? Be honest if the MS 6 was out when you were buying your 8 which would you have purchased? The 6 could spell the end of the 8, making my car a failure, eliminating access to cheap aftermarket parts.

As for some of the other comments:
• There is nothing wrong with my head; I know a lot of 8 owners feel like I do. I fail to see the relationship between my disappointment and mental illness.
• Obviously I understand that my car will never be the fastest, but when you pay 31,000 for a sports car, you expect the acceleration to be proportional. There is no arguing the fact that the 8 is slow in proportion to similarly priced cars. Many will point out that 0-60 in 6 is not that bad, but that 6 second time is a pipe dream. In order to get your car moving that fast, you need to beat it into the ground. Try getting that 6 second time, with catching a whiff of your clutch going up in smoke.
• The SRT-4 is a Neon, I don’t care how much HP you put in it, that’s all it will ever be. I could never bring myself to purchase a Neon, so that car never crossed my mind. As for the performance, I can’t argue with that. It is a bit disturbing that they can get so much out of a Neon, but so little out of the 8.
• Why go with Mazda? It was in my price range, and after reading all the reviews of the 8, I thought it was the best decision. After owning the 8 for two months I find it hard to believe that so many critics loved this car. Aside from the handling, which in my opinion is useless on the streets, the car is far from extraordinary. In retrospect I think they were rewarding the 8 for being different, not for being better. In reality different is only better when it is associated with performance gains. Nothing about the 8’s differences give it any substantial performance gains (excluding the handling). The rear seat, and rear doors are a freaking joke. The rotary engine does rev high, but it really doesn’t deliver any associated performance improvements.

I know I sound like a bitter 8 owner, and quite frankly I am. This car has been nothing but a headache for me. To begin it’s not what I expected; I don’t think the car is fun to drive, nor is it efficient. Reliability has been the pits, I have spent several weekends getting it fixed. Flashes, Flooding Engines, and CEL’s. I have owned several cars, that cost far less than the 8, and none of them have given me so many issues. I just feel cheated. Throw in this whole MS 6 thing, and it just makes my blood boil.


~You do bring up some good points, but your complaining to the wrong people...If you feel like you've been cheated so bad, then why don't you try telling mazda all this and see what they say. But you can't honestly believe that mazda is gonna just tune the protege, miata ,6 , and 3 and not their "flagship" car...just be patient, we all know it's comeing...the question is when?

PS. are they planning to mazdaspeed the 3 next? or the 8? I'll be really pissed off if the 3 is next, we'll be waiting 5 years before the ms8 is out in that case.

PS. are they planning to mazdaspeed the 3 next? or the 8? I'll be really pissed off if the 3 is next, we'll be waiting 5 years before the ms8 is out in that case.

THE 3! There is a thread in here about it.

I understand Mazda is a business and as such they are entitled to make a profit, but I don’t have to like the fact that they are doing it at my expense.
LOL

Um.... that's kinda of how a car company works, they make the cars and we buy them. you'd rather them do what... pay for it by having banner ads on the nav screen? lol

~You do bring up some good points, but your complaining to the wrong people...If you feel like you've been cheated so bad, then why don't you try telling mazda all this and see what they say.

I have complained to Mazda about reliability issues. They gave me the company lines, “oh were sorry,” “just let us know what we can do,” “if you ever have a problem call us again.” Amidst all the BS they never managed to find the time to answer one of my questions directly. Next time my car needed service I called and asked if they could get me a loaner, and they couldn’t help. They suggested I try asking the dealership again. NO! You ask the dealership, I don’t have time to argue over this kind of stuff. Those are the things that customer service people do. If you can't help me get a loaner, then what exactly do you do for a living.

With this experience in mind I’m not going to complain to Mazda about performance, they will probably cut and paste the same company lines into a new letter. Forgetting to address my issues, all along hoping I get lost in the amazement that someone actually wrote me a letter. The bottom line is that they don’t really care about anything but their company, and if they don’t think you can hurt them, then they will not go the extra mile.

Finally, I read through the entire thread. I don't find it surprising that someone here is not 100% satisfied with their RX-8. Power out of the box seems to be an issue with you, and apparently 238, 225 or whatever this mystery pump produces isn't sufficient. I really don't understand where you're coming from, or what you even like. What were you looking for prior to buying your RX-8? Were you looking for something fresh, or perhaps you were trying to dump your old car somewhere?

You're also obviously afraid to really race your car. You seem to be only concerned about the Stoplight 400, which not only is childish, but dangerous. Granted, I've pulled a few stoplight drags in my few years of driving, even in the RX-8, however it seems to be the focal point of your debate. You went off topic by bashing your own car, which you make monthly or bi-weekly payments. Why drive at all? I would tell you to go to a driving school or some sort of track event, but you're seem very reluctant to push the car. It's okay to push the RX-8 to its limits every once in a while, however you have been disillusioned to the fact that going over 4000 rpm will blow your car up.

Now, you're here trying to tell everyone that Mazda's intention is only for profit? Mazda, while they are here to make a profit, also explores new ways to be innovative, whether inside or outside the automotive world.

Most recently, UC Berkeley designed the world's smallest rotary engine, possibly inspired by Mazda's. My materials science prof. showed us the little P-port nanoengine in class, and quite frankly, it was extremely fascinating. Also, they are working on alternative energy sources, such as their hydrogen rotary engine. They are setting precedents, not just ripping off people at the dealership as you so kindly put it.

I'll close by saying, if you're dissatisfied with your car, then by all means sell it, or trade it in for something that does satisfy your needs. It's beyond me why you bought your car, but you need to examine your options.

3000 lbs > 3600 lbs.

I don't see why this thread even exists :).

I'm glad the turbo kits are coming out, we can finally hear less about the lack of power and street light racing issues.

I have to agree with PKskull a little on this. The RX8 was supposed to have 250 hp. After the hp wars (in which we the consumer lost) the rating was dropped to 238. Now we all pretty much agree based on the dynos that we don't think it's even making that. My honest opinion is that if the RX8 was truly making 250 hp like Mazda originally marketed, there wouldn't be any talk about a performance defecit with this car. I'm a little upset with many of the owners on this forum who are retecint to say anything negative about this car as if Mazda is going to get mad and take them back. We owners should be making a united front in regards to the hp and mpg issues, the latter being a larger issue for some. My opinion is this. Don't market a car as having 250 hp and getting 24 mpg when it is not getting either. I must point out though that with a rotary engine to get the max performance out of it you must rev it high. But in doing so you get less mpg, more so than with other engines. That's one issue that the RX8 has that other cars don't. Regarding a MS RX8, I don't care. I'm not going to buy it. I've got too many other things on my plate, like getting a ring for my girlfriend. I'd rather see Mazda get the base 8 where it belongs. Now I'm tired of beating this handling thing. I will never drive my car on the track and am tired of you nitwits who keep saying "we'll take them on the track", obviously you want to take them somewhere, that's what it's about, taking the other driver. If the track is the only place where the RX8 is competitive then that's sad. The owners of the other cars are laughing at you saying "who's going on the track and regardless, once on the track it's the driver who makes it or breaks it."
Overall I love my RX8 but am getting more dissapointed with it as time goes by and even though the hp issue is big with me, overtime I must say the mpg issue hurts me the most because it hurts me in my pocket. When I think of the car not giving me the power it should have and at the same time giving me bad mpg I cannot think that the car is anything else than a letdown. I still love it. That's emotion, not practicality. The car still has some great traits, but I don't feel I owe this car or mazda anything in owning it, except my honest opinion.

Oh and I forgot. I was one of the first to buy one and I must say that my car was faster (or felt faster) before I received the new flash. it was as if Mazda got me a little more mpg at the expense of some power. It ran smoother after the flash and 3 and 4 gears felt a little quicker, but before the flash 1st and 2nd felt lightning quick. JMHO

it was the epa that said 24 mpg, not Mazda. And under similar conditions to the epa tests, i get 24 mpg or better.

Well thanks for resurrecting a dead horse--obviously Talan this wasn't the car for you--and I'll extend the same advice that others have extended to folks with similar complaints--either sell the car or boost it. You aren't forced to keep the car.