Watched it a lil in a few vids and i think i have the concept down.

Basically a rev-matched down shift while approaching a turn while at the same time breaking.

My understanding is this is in effort to reduce any abrupt weight transfer and to complete the act of a rev-matched downshift with proper braking to make it thru the apex as fast as possible.

I know its not street applicable but i have done a few autocrosses and wanted to try some of it out this summer.

I tried it in some limited applications but either my pedals are spaced innapropriately for this or maybe i need lil racing slippers. LOL
Any1 have linkage for a lil tutorial and explanations?
Thanks!

You'll never pull it off. You're not L33t enough!

Your replies are as usefull as this ass:
http://www.persepolis.com/jokes/Images/ass.jpg

Ban Him!



Anyway can we get some + discourse on this subject?

Originally posted by joofntool
Your replies are as usefull as... Easy there, joofntool...

---jps

The concept of heal and toe/double de-clutching stems from olden days when days didn't synchromesh in the gear box.

It goes something like this:

1) Push clutch in, place in neutral, clutch up
2) Blip throttle. This ensures that all components within the gear box are rotating at the same speed, and when you select a lower gear you don't get that horrible whine and engine braking as the lower gear "speads up the engine".
3) Press clutch again, place on selected gear...etc

But heal and toeing is the same but you 'blip' the throttle with the side of your right foot whilst braking, thus maintaining complete control of the vehicle.

To get the hang of it you can practice, practice practice or go to a rally school for lessons. To get the hang of the 'blip' try driving round without using the clutch for a while.

no Corrado_hero.

Your explaining double clutching, which yes, meant something on older trannies without synchros. Has no use today really.

Im talkign about Heal / Toe Downshifting which is different.

Originally posted by Corrado_hero


But heal and toeing is the same but you 'blip' the throttle with the side of your right foot whilst braking, thus maintaining complete control of the vehicle.

To get the hang of it you can practice, practice practice or go to a rally school for lessons. To get the hang of the 'blip' try driving round without using the clutch for a while.


never mind you adressesed it here. Thank you.
just was makign sure im correct in the concept and execution, which looks like i am. Just need some practice and not be wearing my dress/work shoes, lol
Any1 else?

I would often practice heel-toe at a stop light to train my foot and ankle. The only missing element is your vehicle's momentum. Choice of footwear can make a considerable difference as well.

The problem with my car is that the steering column is non-adjustable, which means that if I sit close to the wheel, I have greater steering control, but my leg is so cramped down there that heel-toe is very difficult; conversely, if I sit farther away from the wheel, heel-toe comes with ease, but my arms are so stretched out that I don't feel comfortable making hard turns and or maneuvers.

Good luck!

Try this,
next time when you are driving around and needs to do a turn (without a standing stop). Just brake late to slow down, heel and toe to JUST REV MATCH to a lower gear and exit the turn. Don't bother with Double Clutching just yet. Just practice rev matching with the Heel and toe technique.

After you can do it naturally, throw in the Double Clutching and again just practice practice practice.

Why do it on a turn ?? you want to familar with the concept of playing your attention on turning and steering through the turn NOT the part heel and toe part. The heel and toe/Double clutching should ALWAYS be second nature.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Sputnik
Easy there, joofntool...

---jps


the pic is of a donkey commonly known as an a$$

thanks evel333 & Corrado_hero
thats the type of info i was looking for


more info here for any1 that cares

http://www.bmwexperience.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1659

Originally posted by joofntool

Just need some practice and not be wearing my dress/work shoes, lol


(^_^) Ha! My old job was shirt and tie. Dress shoes were all I ever wore. As a result, I actually became more comfortable driving (even heel-toeing) with dress shoes than anything else. I even considered keeping a pair in the car in case I even went out for some spirited driving!

Originally posted by joofntool
thanks evel333 & Corrado_hero
thats the type of info i was looking for


more info here for any1 that cares

http://www.bmwexperience.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1659

You're welcome fans !!!!!

heel & toe is fun, i try to do it all the time now when I'm slowing down to make a turn at an intersection :D

and here's a question for everyone, how do you blip the throttle? I actually prefer brake with ball of my foot, and blip with my heel. Couldn't get the 'blip with side of foot' technique work at all...

did i mention it is hella fun to do a 5-3 downshift coming out of an exit ramp without ANY kind of jerkyness from the drivetrain? :D

Originally posted by joofntool
no Corrado_hero.

Your explaining double clutching, which yes, meant something on older trannies without synchros. Has no use today really.

Im talkign about Heal / Toe Downshifting which is different.

Beg to differ, bro. heel and toe works best when combined with double clutching. Blipping the throttle while the clutch is disengaged does nothing for the drivetrain - gotta be in neutral for that. Blipping alone will keep the engine smooth, but not the drivetrain. I think to make them both happy, you have to double clutch also. This is VERY evident in my 240, as I've gotten pretty good at it. I had a dificult time heel-toeing without double clutching, but forced myself to do it a bit for the sake of comparison. I still got a clunk from the drivetrain every time.

Also, joofntool, you surmised that it may not bear much usefulness in the street, but it does. When you are cruising in 4th, and siddenly want to pass (or catch a yellow light), you'll want to heel-toe it over to 2nd (or 3rd) for a burst of speed. Try doing that without heel-toe/double clutching :D

Originally posted by B-Nez
Also, joofntool, you surmised that it may not bear much usefulness in the street, but it does. When you are cruising in 4th, and siddenly want to pass (or catch a yellow light), you'll want to heel-toe it over to 2nd (or 3rd) for a burst of speed. Try doing that without heel-toe/double clutching :D

eh, isn't that just simple downshifting to pass?

why would you press the brake to downshift, and then pass?

i don't think you need to heel-toe to pass someone, just double clutch will do fine :D

Originally posted by ZoomZoomH

why would you press the brake to downshift, and then pass?

i don't think you need to heel-toe to pass someone, just double clutch will do fine :D

...i think he means to take the pass on this guy through a corner ;) LOL!!

right on, ZoomZoom - sorry 'bout that. It's a bit hard sometimes to "brainify" something that comes naturally to one's feet. :D Yes, double-clutch downshift for the pass - no heel-toe needed. :cool:

Edit: And yes, Wakeech, I've only done that once: apexing out of the Wal-Mart parking lot onto the highway. Dude in front of me was apparently not thrilled about moving forward, so I took the right turn a bit wide into the left lane on the highway. The sheriff's deputy right behind me wasn't very impressed, however. He didn't give me a ticket, but gave me a hard time about running such high rpms. It was worth it though, to see this deputy try to imitate the sound of a rotary at 8500 rpms. :p

This (http://www.happytogether.com/318ti/notebook/shifting/) is the best guide I've found to it...

Edit: And yes, Wakeech, I've only done that once: apexing out of the Wal-Mart parking lot [/B]

i vote this as quote of the day.

thanks for the links and information ladies (are there any?) / gents

ZoomZoomH,

if you install those larger aftermarket pedals for your brake and gas pedals you should be able to blip the throttle with the side of the foot. Which was kind of hard on my car, since the brake pedal is located more closely upwards to me than the gas pedal, so I tightened the throttle cable just a bit.

To get the hang of the 'blip' try driving round without using the clutch for a while.

I'm trying to do that but I'm still in my driveway! Can I use the clutch just a little??

Originally posted by joofntool
the pic is of a donkey commonly known as an a$$ I know...

---jps

I had a hard time learning to heel/toe. I think the main reason was when I was learning at racing school, it was my first time driving a standard (besides a couple times in a parking lot the week before), first time really driving a car, plus I was trying to learn all the other concepts that were being taught. It was a lot of fun that weekend, but it took me a long time to get any kind of heel/toe thing happening.

But with lots of practice, its a bit easier now, although when I was first learning, I would over 'blip' and I would end up with some wheel spin :(