After over two years closely following the RX8, I have decided against it and will be purchasing a Lancer Evolution (EVO). This decison was based on back to back test drives last week of the S2000, 350Z and the EVO. A second test of drive of the EVO confirmed my earler impressions. The EVO just felt so much tighter and geared towards the enthusiast. Given that most impressions of the RX8 are that it is less "hardcore" than the S2000 and 350Z (and comparing some specs, such as the steering ratio), I feel completely comfortable ruling out the RX8.

The RX8 seems (for my tastes) to be too soft and makes too many compromises. IMHO, its design seems to have too much GT mixed in with the sports car mixture. I loved the powerplant and the 50/50 weight distribution, but the relatively softly tuned suspension (compared to the other cars here) and excess weight (for a high reving NA engine) turned me off.

After seeing it in person at the NYC auto show, I liked the lines, but still thought it looked "weird" from certain angles. The best angle (the front) would be ruined by having to put a license plate there being its the law in NJ.

That being said, I still say my preference is for a lightweight, high reving (Piston or rotary) NA RWD performance car. The mazda car for me would be a mazdaspeed RX8 or an RX7, but neither are available :mad:

I would have purchased the EVO this week, but I need to wait for a garage to become available in my apartment complex (the wait shouldn't be too long). If I haven't bought the EVO by the time the RX8 comes out, I'll give it a test drive, but it will most likely be for entertainment purposes only.

I want to say this forum is absolutely the best I have found. The level of maturity and wealth of knowledge is exceptional. I hope it continues to be that way as more members join in the upcoming months. Don't worry, I'll still be here. :D

The EVO is sweeeeeet! I bought one about a month ago. It's really everything I've ever wanted and puts a smile on my face everytime I hear the hisssss of the turbo spool. You're going to love it.

pics of my EVO are at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/drock512

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat
The EVO is sweeeeeet! I bought one about a month ago. It's really everything I've ever wanted and puts a smile on my face everytime I hear the hisssss of the turbo spool. You're going to love it.

pics of my EVO are at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/drock512

AbusiveWombat,

Very nice pics. I love the seats in the Black. I'm going for the Rally Red, with no sunroof. Black is my second choice, but having a black car already, I already know I'm not dilligent enough to keep it clean. Waiting to purchase this car is going to kill me!

Did you spring for the Pit Pass? Finish your break-in period?

The performance of the EVO and Suby STI are awsome, but why do these cars have to be so ugly. While I think the Suby looks nicer then the Evo both will loose their unique looks in about 6 months because every kid and their brother will buy stock Lancers and Imprezas and buy aftermarket add-ons to make them look just like the more expensive Evo and Sti's.

Dont get me wrong I really do love the new Rally racing trend thats going on , but I only just wish these cars looked better and less like modded-up econo-boxes to fit their $30-35 price tag.

When I see the EVO, all I can think of is Jackie Chan in Canonball Run :)

nice car wombat
more i look at the evo8's interior, i appreciate its simplicity and how they concentrated more on the important parts (engine, handling, performance aspects). i still wouldn't buy it cuz interiors are a huge thing for me. i need to look at a pretty interior while i'm driving. haha. i love your car. good luck with it.

I test road in an RX-8 at Mazda Rev-it-up here in Houston a couple weeks ago and it ain't soft.

A pro was driving the thing with me up front and two soccer moms in the back. He was attacking the "low speed" coarse with reckless abandon and the car was accelerating and handling beautifully and this is with 500 lbs of passengers.

And speaking of beautiful, that is why I didn't consider the WRX or the EVO. Those are two fugly cars even with their great performance. I also am not a huge fan noticeable turbo lag in the WRX (don't know about the sti).

So it comes down to: do you want AWD and its benefits or do you want a hot looking car with similar performance but no AWD.

-Mr. Wigggles

Originally posted by MrWigggles
I test road in an RX-8 at Mazda Rev-it-up here in Houston a couple weeks ago and it ain't soft.

A pro was driving the thing with me up front and two soccer moms in the back. He was attacking the "low speed" coarse with reckless abandon and the car was accelerating and handling beautifully and this is with 500 lbs of passengers.

And speaking of beautiful, that is why I didn't consider the WRX or the EVO. Those are two fugly cars even with their great performance. I also am not a huge fan noticeable turbo lag in the WRX (don't know about the sti).

So it comes down to: do you want AWD and its benefits or do you want a hot looking car with similar performance but no AWD.

-Mr. Wigggles

After driving the EVO back to back with the 350Z and the S2000, the performance (overall) was not comparable. I highly doubt the RX8 will come close. Over on evolutionm.net, I have read a few owners of FDs past and present saying the EVO is quite close to it in performance.

As for the looks of the RX8, I still think the extended roofline and wheelbase make it look a bit odd, especially from the sides and back. Looks are subjective, but that's my take on it.

To each his own. Hope your happy with your choice. guess you gotta change ur name now... :)

Originally posted by Tron
To each his own. Hope your happy with your choice. guess you gotta change ur name now... :)

I'll still be happy reving to 7000 RPM :)

The EVO is UGLY imho!!!!!!!!

im happy he's not getting an RX8 he doesnt deserve it :D


im jus joking:p

Originally posted by revhappy

Over on evolutionm.net, I have read a few owners of FDs past and present saying the EVO is quite close to it in performance.

As for the looks of the RX8, I still think the extended roofline and wheelbase make it look a bit odd, especially from the sides and back. Looks are subjective, but that's my take on it.

So when Mazda has published that the RX-8 outperforms the latest FD on a road course (which in turn would outperform the last FD version that was imported to the US), it means that... according to those Evo owners, the RX-8 will outperform an EVO on a road course. And this is worse how? ;)

As for looks - I know it's all subjective, but the RX-8 is a coupe that has been stretched to accomodate 4 adults. The Evo is an econobox 4 door sedan that has been tarted up at the factory. To each his own... :D

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


So when Mazda has published that the RX-8 outperforms the latest FD on a road course (which in turn would outperform the last FD version that was imported to the US), it means that... according to those Evo owners, the RX-8 will outperform an EVO on a road course. And this is worse how? ;)

As for looks - I know it's all subjective, but the RX-8 is a coupe that has been stretched to accomodate 4 adults. The Evo is an econobox 4 door sedan that has been tarted up at the factory. To each his own... :D

Regards,
Gordon

This is some convoluted logic.

What road course is this? On the Streets of Willow the RX8 lost to the G35 and the Cobra. Are you seriously suggesting the RX8 will outperform the FD or an EVO on a roadcourse? I highly doubt the RX8 will outdo the EVO in autocross let alone a track that the EVO can use its straightline power advantage in.

RX8 will def outdo a stock FD in autocross...autocross ur max speed is like 30mph...turbo's are gona lag too much wile the NA engine has no lag responce...

also according to mazda rx8 is farmore balanced for the tracks than the FD is...

the lancer will own both cars on the tracks..but evo is so nasty...and compare what ur getting in an rx8 to what ur getting in the evo and its rx8 hands down...

Hey, different strokes for different folks.

I need a much more liveable cabin than the Evo; they've cheaped out on everything in the interior to make that performance drool-worthy. But for me, I need a balance of performance and liveability, not to mention the fact that the Evo will be quite a bit higher on insurance, and more likely to be stolen than an RX-8 since it's very limited in its production scope.

RX-8 will be a mass-market car, the Evo won't. And besides I hate the idea of having AWD, only RWD for me :)

Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

Originally posted by RacingDynamcs
RX8 will def outdo a stock FD in autocross...autocross ur max speed is like 30mph...turbo's are gona lag too much wile the NA engine has no lag responce...

According to Sports Car International, the RX8 was a poor autocross car, at least in stock form.

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3089&highlight=autocross

Originally posted by Hercules
Hey, different strokes for different folks.

I need a much more liveable cabin than the Evo; they've cheaped out on everything in the interior to make that performance drool-worthy. But for me, I need a balance of performance and liveability, not to mention the fact that the Evo will be quite a bit higher on insurance, and more likely to be stolen than an RX-8 since it's very limited in its production scope.

RX-8 will be a mass-market car, the Evo won't. And besides I hate the idea of having AWD, only RWD for me :)

Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

The interior is cheap...except for those recaros..they are sweet. :) I really don't care about interior quality so its no big deal to me, but I can defintely see how others would be turned off by it.

I'm in the process of switching insurance so I'm hoping it won't be too bad. New Jersey's car insurance is absolutely ridiculous.

I love the performance of the Evo, but I can't get by the looks. It did really well against exotics in this month’s motor trend (especially in braking!) though. There was very little to complain about, other than the lack of boost gauge, and no side air bags available. There really can't be a good comparison between the RX-8 and Evo........ because the production RX-8 isn't out yet (only in Japan). I'm sure after a couple months of release, motor trend or R&T will have a performance comparo of the Evo, Sti, RX-8, G35c, 350Z, and something domestic like a Mustang Mach1 or Cobra.

Originally posted by revhappy

Did you spring for the Pit Pass? Finish your break-in period?

Yeah I went with the pit pass. When I broke it down it was very close to what I usually pay for that type of service. The break in period is over but I'll tell ya, I hardly ever get above 5k because the car is so fast from 3k-5k rpms that I usually shift early when passing traffic. I can't help it...I sometimes forget there's another 2k left.

Hercules -
The insurance thing is nothing. My insurance went up $7 each 6 months from my old car which was a 2002 Chevy Z71 4x4 to the EVO. Why do you think the EVO is more likely to be stolen because of the production scope? Last I heard the most likely cars to be stolen are the most popular (Camery, Accord...).

RacingDynamcs -
If you think the turbo will lag too much in an autocross, think again. The power delivery is really nice and smooth exiting a turn. But don't take my word...go for a test drive. But I warn you, you may end up with an EVO at the end of the testdrive. It happened to me.

Gord96BRG -
Sorry to burst your bubble but the RX8 in its current form will never out perform the EVO. These cars are in different performance leagues. The handling of the EVO is up there with the z06 and the straight line acceleration is between a Cobra and 350z.

Like Hercules said "different strokes for different folks". I used to be an interior person. I used to want the auto climate control and the heated power leather seats. But now I've realized that I really don't care about the interior...what I want is all out performance. If I were to get the RX8 I envisioned myself putting on performance springs, better tires, and a supercharger. That right there would set me back 5k not to mention labor. This car comes stock with the performance I wanted plus with less than $1k in mods you can be running close to 300 hp and that's without changing any boost levels.

For folks like me, I need a car that is driveable on a day-to-day basis, can look decent, be tons of fun to drive, and not kill my pockets.

The RX-8 does that and more.

Power to me, isn't everything and giving up AWD for RWD means that I can have a lot more fun when I eventually take the car on a track day. It's not historic that the racey AWD econoboxes are more fun to drive than say... a Miata. It's always the Miatas, MR2, RX-7 etc that has epitomized the 'fun to drive' factor for years.

Why change a good thing? The RX-8 is hitting on all the factors that made the Miata, MR2 and RX-7 fun as hell, wrapping it into a very attractive package, and offering it for a steal of a price.

And on the insurance thing... come move to Jersey and we will see how much your insurance changes from car to car :)

Originally posted by Hercules
... a Miata. It's always the Miatas, MR2, RX-7 etc that has epitomized the 'fun to drive' factor for years.


It isn't very fair to say that Miatas, MR2's, and RX-7's have epitomized the "fun to drive factor for years" since the EVO and STI have only just come to America this year. Give them time, maybe a test drive, and opinions might change.

I personally think the EVO looks better than the RX-8 (I must be crazy right?), but I am biased towards rally cars.

I hope you have fun with the EVO revhappy. I'm so jealous :p .

as far as i can tell, 1:50 at Laguna with stock Bridgestone RE040's is a damn good time. Also keep in mind that EVO stock tires are what, Yoko Advan's or something like that? I'm almost convinced thats where the numbers are coming from.

Also something to keep in mind is that when you buy an evo, you are almost buying it in a relatively maximum state of tune... costs more to modify.

Originally posted by revhappy


This is some convoluted logic.

What road course is this? On the Streets of Willow the RX8 lost to the G35 and the Cobra. Are you seriously suggesting the RX8 will outperform the FD or an EVO on a roadcourse?

No, it's very straightforward logic, based on the evo forum member's suggestion that the Evo is only as fast as an FD. Mazda says the RX-8 is faster than the RX-7 on handling courses, they would readily acknowledge that the 7 is quicker in a straight line. The handling aspect is based on their test tracks in Japan. They've published videos of the two cars driving head to head on track. It's simple logic to take that conclusion and combine it with the Evo forum assertion...

So don't take my comment so seriously - I'm poking fun at the Evo forum claim! Also just teasing a bit about the tarted-up econobox looks. I don't take these discussions too seriously, obviously, and I try to never take myself too seriously either!

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat

Gord96BRG -
Sorry to burst your bubble but the RX8 in its current form will never out perform the EVO. These cars are in different performance leagues. The handling of the EVO is up there with the z06 and the straight line acceleration is between a Cobra and 350z.

I guess you didn't get the implied sarcasm either. It isn't my bubble! I make no such claims, and readily acknowledge that the focus and intent of the two cars (RX-8 and Evo) is different.

Personally, I'm thrilled that the rally-style performance cars are finally coming to North America. It's too bad that many North Americans don't really understand cars like the WRX, STi, and Evo, and just see their power ratings and judge them by straight line performance. I take more of the Euro view, where they're fantastic over the road, all weather and conditions, performance machines, that compete right up there with the Porsche 911 and up "supercars". I'm also an AWD fan, having owned a Subaru Legacy GT and now own an Audi allroad (6 speed manual version, of course) for a family hauler (and also currently own a Miata). If it were just me, and I could only have 1 car, it would probably be a WRX or STi. A dose of practicality combined with mega performance in all seasons is hard to beat.

The appeal of the RX-8 for me is the lightweight, nimble and responsive balance and RWD handling characteristics - it's a 4 door Miata, in that respect. My philosophy is that life is too short to drive boring cars! I appreciate the style Mazda has imbued the RX-8 with in exterior and interior design, and especially the fact that my wife and kids can enjoy the experience with me (unlike the Miata). For us, the RX8 will be replacing a Contour SE - a great FWD 4 door with a fun engine and good handling in itself, but it's great when there are so many good, fun alternatives when it's time to replace it...

Anyway, enough rambling! Here's to performance cars straight from the manufacturers - down with FWD! ;)

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG


No, it's very straightforward logic, based on the evo forum member's suggestion that the Evo is only as fast as an FD. Mazda says the RX-8 is faster than the RX-7 on handling courses, they would readily acknowledge that the 7 is quicker in a straight line. The handling aspect is based on their test tracks in Japan. They've published videos of the two cars driving head to head on track. It's simple logic to take that conclusion and combine it with the Evo forum assertion...

So don't take my comment so seriously - I'm poking fun at the Evo forum claim! Also just teasing a bit about the tarted-up econobox looks. I don't take these discussions too seriously, obviously, and I try to never take myself too seriously either!

I was implying straightline speed when I relayed the FD and EVO owners comparisons of the two cars. Handling, they gave to the EVO. :) Sarcasm is very...difficult to pick up online without tonality.....:o (Hint..Hint..We need more smile icons!!!!)



Originally posted by Gord96BRG
I guess you didn't get the implied sarcasm either. It isn't my bubble! I make no such claims, and readily acknowledge that the focus and intent of the two cars (RX-8 and Evo) is different.

Personally, I'm thrilled that the rally-style performance cars are finally coming to North America. It's too bad that many North Americans don't really understand cars like the WRX, STi, and Evo, and just see their power ratings and judge them by straight line performance. I take more of the Euro view, where they're fantastic over the road, all weather and conditions, performance machines, that compete right up there with the Porsche 911 and up "supercars". I'm also an AWD fan, having owned a Subaru Legacy GT and now own an Audi allroad (6 speed manual version, of course) for a family hauler (and also currently own a Miata). If it were just me, and I could only have 1 car, it would probably be a WRX or STi. A dose of practicality combined with mega performance in all seasons is hard to beat.

The appeal of the RX-8 for me is the lightweight, nimble and responsive balance and RWD handling characteristics - it's a 4 door Miata, in that respect. My philosophy is that life is too short to drive boring cars! I appreciate the style Mazda has imbued the RX-8 with in exterior and interior design, and especially the fact that my wife and kids can enjoy the experience with me (unlike the Miata). For us, the RX8 will be replacing a Contour SE - a great FWD 4 door with a fun engine and good handling in itself, but it's great when there are so many good, fun alternatives when it's time to replace it...

Anyway, enough rambling! Here's to performance cars straight from the manufacturers - down with FWD! ;)

Regards,
Gordon

I love the sports car design philosophy behind the RX8 (RWD, light, high reving, great weight distribution, sleek looks, some "practicality", etc). I was just disapointed in that they blended more "practicality" than I wanted.

IMHO, you got to give up a lot of the weight adding doo-dads and other compromises (such as smooth ride quality, etc) to make this a serious sports car that can compete (from an objective performance point of view) with other sports car designs (more displacement, forced induction, etc.). In other words, less weight will make it competitive in straight-line speed and substantially better in handling and braking (along with the proper tuning of the suspension). As for looks, sacrifice some of the rear headroom(plus shorten the wheelbase a bit and make it two door) and you can have a longer, less steep rear window and you'll have probobly the most sexy car anywhere near $30K. Add in the inherent fun factors in a slick gearbox (which, I think is easier to put in with this kind of powerplant, but I could be wrong) and a 9,000 RPM redline and you have a phenominal driver's car.

Of course, this would reduce the practicality in terms of ride quality and rear headroom, but you'd still be able to transport four people (albeit with more hassle). However, I'm sure mazda did some market research to decide on the RX8's current design, but it just doesn't work for me. I'll be keeping my eye on the Mazdaspeed RX8 and RX7 in the next few years. :D

As for the EVO's looks, I actually really like it (seeing it in person its better), but you are right..it can't compete with a great looking sports car. Personally, if they designed the EVO's specs into the last generation Eclipse GSX body (already turbo and AWD)...they'd have one bad-ass AWD sports car. Of course, I have no idea if it it would be feasable and I'm sure it'd be more expensive, but you can always dream. :)

Originally posted by ProtoConVert
as far as i can tell, 1:50 at Laguna with stock Bridgestone RE040's is a damn good time. Also keep in mind that EVO stock tires are what, Yoko Advan's or something like that? I'm almost convinced thats where the numbers are coming from.

Also something to keep in mind is that when you buy an evo, you are almost buying it in a relatively maximum state of tune... costs more to modify.

Put similar high performance tires on your favorite econobox ("soup it up") and see if its competitive. :confused: I think the S2000 has high performance summer tires (I forget which and I'm too lazy to look) and its nowhere near the EVO in OBJECTIVE performance (however, its a helluva fun car, but wish it was a hard-top).

As for mods (I have no intention for anything significant...the car is plenty fast for me), I hear 300 plus HP is easily attainable. I will agree with you that the RX8's suspension has more track potential, but significantly altering it and possibly voiding the warranty is not for me. If I'm paying $30K, I'm hoping its very close to where I want it.

Now, use this chassis on a more performance oriented design (RX7) and you'll have me sold (and in line to put a deposit down). :D

i will never jump ship from the 8 :D

Originally posted by revhappy
Handling, they gave to the EVO.

Who gave handling to the EVO? There's no way that souped up econobox has a center of gravity or weight distribution anything close to the RX-8. And stock, the EVO only has about 20 more horsepower.

Also, you're making alot of assumptions about the RX-8 without ever having even ridden in one. Have you ever driven a rotary engine? Without having done so, it's impossible to describe the ease with which the rotary revs, and how much this contributes to spirited driving fun! Especially when you combine it with what is sure to be some of the best handling in any production car, especially in this price range.

Originally posted by javahut


Who gave handling to the EVO? There's no way that souped up econobox has a center of gravity or weight distribution anything close to the RX-8. And stock, the EVO only has about 20 more horsepower.

Also, you're making alot of assumptions about the RX-8 without ever having even ridden in one. Have you ever driven a rotary engine? Without having done so, it's impossible to describe the ease with which the rotary revs, and how much this contributes to spirited driving fun! Especially when you combine it with what is sure to be some of the best handling in any production car, especially in this price range.

Some past and present FD owners that now have the EVO.

Originally posted by javahut

Who gave handling to the EVO? There's no way that souped up econobox has a center of gravity or weight distribution anything close to the RX-8. And stock, the EVO only has about 20 more horsepower.


Check out the June Motortrend (you can finda scanned copy of it at evolutionm.net). I'll give you a quick recap:

The cars tested:
Mosler MT900 Photon
Lamboghini Murcielago
Dodge Viper SRT10
Ferrari 575m maranello
Mercedes Benz CL55 AMG
Chevy Corvette z06
Ford Mustang SVT Cobra
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
Jaguar XKR

Here's where the EVO placed (notice handling tests):

0-60:............. 7th
1/4 mile:........ 8th
60-0:............. 4th
0-100-0:........ 8th
Standing Mile: 9th
100-0:............ 4th
600 ft slalom:. 2nd
Figure 8:......... 5th

I'd say Mitsu did a pretty good job in the handling and breaking.

oh no question about it. the evo is a great car

but it doesn't have the rotary. and i'm still never gonna jump ship :D

it's safe to say that

"Wanna play with my wankels" gets more chick than "wanna pist on, piss off?" sorry, this is only a joke.....



I rode in teh EVO 7 in Japan, it's a tight car, but still, it's a 4 door seden, doesn't appears to be a GREAT/sports car(from a general public point of view)

:D

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat


Check out the June Motortrend (you can finda scanned copy of it at evolutionm.net). I'll give you a quick recap:

The cars tested:
Mosler MT900 Photon
Lamboghini Murcielago
Dodge Viper SRT10
Ferrari 575m maranello
Mercedes Benz CL55 AMG
Chevy Corvette z06
Ford Mustang SVT Cobra
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
Jaguar XKR

Here's where the EVO placed (notice handling tests):

0-60:............. 7th
1/4 mile:........ 8th
60-0:............. 4th
0-100-0:........ 8th
Standing Mile: 9th
100-0:............ 4th
600 ft slalom:. 2nd
Figure 8:......... 5th

I'd say Mitsu did a pretty good job in the handling and breaking.

hmm, I'll bite...but I'm from UK so dont know the Mosler MT900 Photon at all (US version of a supercar?)..The rest look like big heavy GT class stuff.

Out of those cars the Mitsu is relativly light and small and nimble, especialy for a slalom course, I'd expect it to come 1st , would be interested in which actualy beat it.

In the UK The EVO/STI are relativly large/heavy sports cars, we tend to see many more superlight cars (caterham, westfield, lotus, TVR, also s2000 mass produced types) which tend to place the emphasis on lowering weight instead of adding cylinders (with the exeption of TVR who do both).

I guess it comes from having (small)roads with corners and not throwing auto boxes into everything...

The EVO should have been your last pick! Ugly car but you have to drive it - good luck!:p

I thought the EVO looked hideous in the magazines, but recently went to a dealer to check one out and it looks much better in person - not good but pretty reasonable in an aggressive way.

The salesguy had no clue about the vehicle but said they expected $5k above MSRP for it - not dealer markups mind you but instead mandatory options like VIN etching for $1k, windscreen logo for $2k etc. I laughed at him and told him anyone can get them at MSRP or less now.

"abusive wombat"

those pics that you took of your car looks very nice.
The way some magazine takes it makes the evo looks ugly. Though your pics look very nice its not as sweet as the rx-8, but hey looks are subjective.

Originally posted by RobDickinson


hmm, I'll bite...but I'm from UK so dont know the Mosler MT900 Photon at all (US version of a supercar?)..

Out of those cars the Mitsu is relativly light and small and nimble, especialy for a slalom course, I'd expect it to come 1st , would be interested in which actualy beat it.


The comparo was also on Motor Trend TV (last week, I think?). I'd never seen or heard of a Mosler, either. But, man, was it HOT!!! It beat everything, if I remember, except in top speed.

It's 0-60 MPH time was like 3 seconds. Stopping (from 60 MPH?) was like 90 feet.

The Mosler is built in the US, and is basically a street legal race car. Cost around $210,000. I told my wife I'm taking my RX-8 money ($35K) and making a down payment on the Mosler instead.:p

mosler actually has been around for quite a while. it is very american, and many of the previous iterations have always been extremely awesome performance beasts, and yes, essentially street-legal race cars. however, most of the earlier moslers were also EXTREMELY UGLY, function over form. it's not until recently that mosler started paying attention to looks, thus the newest mosler is much more pleasing to look at and thus catches more attention

here's a mosler from the 90s:

and here's the newest mosler, the mt900. quite a difference. i do believe it shares some components w/ the c5 corvette. it uses the LS6 engine from the z06, boosted to 435bhp. very nice.

but in my mind the true ultimate american supercar is still the saleen s7 :D

This is getting way off topic, but...

Whew! Yeah, the Saleen is hot, too. I think I prefer the cleaner lines of the Mosler, though. One of those on their website even had a stereo in it. Bet there's not much room for low end subs. :p

http://www.moslerauto.com/index.html

Originally posted by RobDickinson


hmm, I'll bite...but I'm from UK so dont know the Mosler MT900 Photon at all (US version of a supercar?)..The rest look like big heavy GT class stuff.

Out of those cars the Mitsu is relativly light and small and nimble, especialy for a slalom course, I'd expect it to come 1st , would be interested in which actualy beat it.

In the UK The EVO/STI are relativly large/heavy sports cars, we tend to see many more superlight cars (caterham, westfield, lotus, TVR, also s2000 mass produced types) which tend to place the emphasis on lowering weight instead of adding cylinders (with the exeption of TVR who do both).

I guess it comes from having (small)roads with corners and not throwing auto boxes into everything...

Unfortunately us americans with our love for SUVs and supersized wheels on any vehicle we can put them on need to be weaned slowly into cars that are actually really fun to drive :o

This year the EVO and STI..next April the Elise........I think we are getting there.....maybe we can get the full lineups some day. If higher...gas prices (i.e. taxes) make us trade our SUVS...for these smaller, nimble fun cars....then I'm finally in favor of a "tax increase" :)

The Elise is a car that I've salivated over. I'm not too sure how it will be reliability wise..and it sure is impractical...but dam...can you find a better handleing car? I think in a couple of years.....if they prove somewhat reliable..I think I just might throw all ideas of practicality out the window and spring for one..:)

I found the EVO to feel much lighter than it really is....I think it has a lot to do with the insanely quick steering and near absence of body roll. Driven back to back with the Z (about the same weight)...it felt almost like a go-kart next to the Z.

Originally posted by revhappy
I found the EVO to feel much lighter than it really is.... almost like a go-kart next to the Z.

yup, those higher spring and damper rates (which can hurt tender bums) make all the difference there.

Originally posted by revhappy

The Elise is a car that I've salivated over. I'm not too sure how it will be reliability wise..and it sure is impractical...but dam...can you find a better handleing car? I think in a couple of years.....if they prove somewhat reliable..I think I just might throw all ideas of practicality out the window and spring for one..:)


The Elise may get to the US next year, probably in some 3rd gen version, usuing honda/toyota engine, it def wont be the current rover K series.

It aint a reliable car, far from it, and I dont think it'd go down well in america apart from a few enthusiasts. Its to small, to 'underpowered' and to extreem/harsh for most yanks (and Brits too).

If I could justify having 2 cars I'd keep my current car (focus) and get a S1 elise , but I cant.

If your after something even less practical than an Elise look at caterham/westfield/tiger etc. New versions of the ol lotus 7, there realy nutz. Caterham R500 is 500bhp/ton and weighs 430kg (946llb). Not a lot can beat these round a track (unless it doesnt have many bends, not very airodynamic).

Also have a look for Ultima kit cars. Very tasty. 960kg (2110llb) powered usualy by SBC 300-1000bhp, many cream the Macca F1 for performance...and all for £35k

according to lotus america, the elise is coming here next year. they've even started mailing out teaser brochures. whether that falls through or not remains to be seen

the elise s2 is definitely one of my favorites. it's probably one of the best true no frills all thrills sports car out there, and i'd take it over a boxter or z4 any day. essentially a grown-up go kart or 4-wheel motorcycle... i really hope it makes it here...