This has happened for the third time since I got the car (a year and a half ago).
The first time it happened, was about a week after I got the car. I stalled the engine and immediately restarted the engine, the power steering light came on and the wheel got very hard to move. So I turned the car off again and when I started It after about 5 seconds everything was back to normal.

The second and third times this happened was today. I started the car while opening the windows. When I started to backup the light came on and the steering wheel got very hard tomove. I tried turning the car of and on again but it didn't work, the light stayed on. I drove the car for about 1 mile and a half to my house and when I get there and park the light comes off and the steering goes back to normal. I turn the car off again and start it and the light comes on.

After this I turned the car off and went in to have lunch. The car was off for about 1 hour and when I go back into the car everything works just fine.

My question is the folowing. Does having any electrical Item on the car working while the car is started afect the electrical power steering? (I am excluding from this list thee radio which most people dont turn off to start the car, but does A/C, Windows, moon roof ect. Also, can tire presure cause this? and
Has anybody else had this on their car. After that incident I drove the car for the rest of the day with no problems, should I worry and take the car in for a checkup or can it wait for my next oil change, due in about 1000 miles anyway.

any input will be apreciated.

I don't think it differes on the 8 from any other car on the road the power sterring pump is turned buy the engine, usally by a belt, if the belt slips you loss power steering. It also could be a problem in the pump its self, or even the steering rack, take it to a dealer and get it looked at.

The * uses an electricaly assisted peower seering, NOt hydraulic (sorry for the mis-spell) so it is electrical morots that push the power steering, not a belt. thats why I was asking about electrical interferance while starting the engine (the car performs all sorts of self checks douring and the first seconds after startup)

I've been having intermittant problems with my power steering also. There doesn't seem to be any particular pattern causing this happens. If you wait until the engine warms up and then shutdown and restart, the power steering will be OK.

I haven't had time to go to the dealer to get this fixed yet. If you do get it fixed, let me know what they did. I don't have a lot of confidence in the dealership to get it fixed properly.

Thank you, I'l keep you posted!

Stone,

The RX-8 has direct drive electronic power assist rack-and-pinion steering ........ there's no belt/power steering pump.

It sounds like a trip to the dealer is in order here.

rx8cited

Ok its an electric motor, but it still turns a pump right? Right so the question is not what turns the pump as much as it the pump always turning and properly working, I would still take it in, if you lose all power assist, which it sounds like you did, there has to be a reason, bad pump, electrical motor not always turning pump properly, or some other steering related item. Bottom line you shouldn't lose power steering assist. I would have it looked at. What happens if the power steering decides to fall on its face during a hard turn and surprises you? Most likly you miss the turn and fly off the road, have it looked at. (dear god I can't spell or type this morrning, someone bring me coffee)

I've driven many cars with electric power steering and believe me, the 8 is one of the better ones for efficiency of operation.
I haven't had any problems with my power steering, yet.

Ok its an electric motor, but it still turns a pump right?.....

No mate, just an electric motor....no pump. Controlled by a electronic module located under your PCM.

Gomez.

Definitely think you need to visit the dealer - that's a serious safety issue there - if your PS dies while you're moving you could easily get into big trouble. The car's still steerable, but the sudden huge increase in steering effort could catch you by surprise.

I had the PS pump fail in my second car that I ever owned - an '83 Mazda 626 - died while in a low-speed turn on a city street - caused me to run up over a curb and onto a lawn. Thank God, no poles, people or puppies in the way.

The electronic power steering has a sensor built into it - the steering angle sensor. This ties in to the DSC system - tells the computer the degree of turn that is cranked in at the wheel. If you had your battery disconnected or discharged for any reason, the steering angle sensor needs to be reset. It's in the owners manual.

To reset the sensor, you have to turn the wheel lock to lock with the ignition on and the engine off. Don't recall if you turn left or right first, check the manual.

If you still have the problem after resetting the sensor, go to the dealer.

I've only had the power steering failure when starting up... never while driving. I think it's got something to do with improper initialization during start up. Actually, driving the car with no power steering gives me an appreciation for how well the car handles and how good the power steering assist really is. At moderate speeds, the car steering is light and quick; power steering provides very little assistance. At less than 10 mph and greater than 70 mph, the steering is a bit heavy but not unmanageable. With power, the assistance makes the steering wheel feel consistant at any speed. I had a Honda Civic years ago with no power steering so the RX-8 really wouldn't a big deal to drive without any power steering steering.

Even though I'm having a problem, it surprises me that an electric motor could work just as well as a hydraulic power assist system. I'm highly impressed.

Thanks for the input, I will teke it ASAP but If the problem doesent show up on the dealer I doubt that they will do any thing about it. whuld there be a DTC stating the reason for the failure?

If the power steering unit see's a fault it should set a code..also the DSC light should be on.

DTC Diagnosis system component Page
WDS or equivalent
B1318 Battery power supply B1342 EPS control module
B2141 EPS system (neutral position setting not performed)
B2278 Torque sensor

Then there shouldn't be any DTC's because nither the DSC light nor the check engine light are on. Will still take it to the dealer, but right now I dont have time. Probably when I go in for my next oil change I'l have the power steering checked.

I only get the power steering failure light also... no DSC or check engine light.

FACT: Your power steering should work even if you stall the engine.

FACT: If your EPS (Electric Power Steering) light came on you will have an error code recorded in the module. Even if the light goes off, the error code is still in the module's memory.

What you are describing should not happen. Take it to the dealer and have it diagnosed - urgently! You will probably come back with a new EPS control module...

Good luck!

thankx for the input!

Il have it cheked ASAP and post the veredict.

FACT: Your power steering should work even if you stall the engine.



Why would the power steering work with the engine stalled? It doesn't work with the engine not running after a normal shutdown. If I get in my car and turn the key to the Acc position, I do not have power steering. I have tried this.

Gomez.

Why would the power steering work with the engine stalled? It doesn't work with the engine not running after a normal shutdown. If I get in my car and turn the key to the Acc position, I do not have power steering. I have tried this.

Gomez.

Err, pretty obvious I thought. So you still have power steering if the engine stops for any reason, allowing you to safely steer your car off the highway out of harm's way.

Err, pretty obvious I thought. So you still have power steering if the engine stops for any reason, allowing you to safely steer your car off the highway out of harm's way.

I mean, HOW does it work with the engine stalled......I doubt that it does work, in fact I'm damn near certain it doesn't.

Gomez.

The 8 Elecrtric Power Steering only needs the Battery and the Key "ON" to work. It will not work in Accessory. This steering has a worm on the end of the steering rack that the electric motor spins on and has no connection to anything hydrolic or any pump.

FOR ANY STEERING PROBLEM YOU SHOULD GO TO THE DEALER IMEDIATELY! It is for your safety. Also if there is a system problem Mazda will jump on it as they don't want any law suits. So it is for my safety and all 8 drivers that you should go to the dealer. If there is a system problem Mazda will do a recall ASAP. Just the fact that you have made this post and not gone to a dealer could affect (reduce) a law suit if you were to have an accident.

I have actually intentionally turned the key off when coasting down a hill to see how much assist this steering provides. As a nother post stated, there is little assist at any speed above 10 mph, so not a big concern if you are ready for it. But if not it could be a dangreous problem. The real stiff steering when at a stop is both because of the large tires and the extra load the worm motor contributes. Try turning the steering wheel whth the car jacked some time (unlock the wheel of course) and you will notice it isn't too hard.

Okay, I've found something that may lead somewhere....

The DTC U2023 is recorded if there is a malfunction in the engine speed signal after engine start, and in this case steering control is available. I'm not sure a stalled engine will cause a failure of the engine speed signal, it will just register an engine speed of zero rpm. The code U2023 is a CAN communication error code, so I think we'd have to have a CAN bus failure to retain steering authority, not just a an engine speed of zero.

Mr M, can you shed any light on this?

Gomez.

Okay, I've found something that may lead somewhere....

The DTC U2023 is recorded if there is a malfunction in the engine speed signal after engine start, and in this case steering control is available. I'm not sure a stalled engine will cause a failure of the engine speed signal, it will just register an engine speed of zero rpm. The code U2023 is a CAN communication error code, so I think we'd have to have a CAN bus failure to retain steering authority, not just a an engine speed of zero.

Mr M, can you shed any light on this?

Gomez.

Nothing as complex as that Gomez. The EPS module detects no engine speed signal (it is connected to the CAN, so receives the signal from the PCM), but there was no ignition switch OFF signal as well, it continues supplying power to the EPS motor.

Try popping the clutch and stalling the motor, you'll see.

If that is indeed the case, then this electric system is a major step ahead in safety as far as retaining control with a stalled engine....it's a wonder Mazda haven't made a big deal about it. And I'm going to go out and stall my car...I love an experiment :) .

Gomez.

Gomez,
I look forward to seeing the results of your experiment.

BTW, here's what it says in the 2004 Owner's Manual on page 5-16
"Power steering is only operable when the engine is running. If the engine is off or if the power steering system is inoperable, you can still steer, but it requires more physical effort."

Regarding the above statement, I'm not sure if engine off is the same as stalled engine with ignition key still in on position - but we'll know how it really works after you report back :).

rx8cited

Been there, done that... bought the T-Shirt :rolleyes:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=26623

Nothing as complex as that Gomez. The EPS module detects no engine speed signal (it is connected to the CAN, so receives the signal from the PCM), but there was no ignition switch OFF signal as well, it continues supplying power to the EPS motor.

Try popping the clutch and stalling the motor, you'll see.

Kudos to you Mr M, I've just given the car a wash and parked it in the garage.....stomped on the brake pedal, engaged first gear and dumped the clutch at 1000rpm. Sure enough, I stalled the car and the power steering kept working.

I love it when an experiment comes off :) . Now I just need to find a good use for this feature other than having my steering continue to work when I run out of fuel at 110kph.....Hmmm....... :p

Hope I haven't just flooded a cold engine :eek:

Gomez.

Just got back from the Mazda dealer. They say that they couldn't find anything wrong with my power steering but they suspect that an electrical connector was a bit loose. This seems like an acceptable diagnosis to me since the problem I was having was intermittant and went away after the car warmed up.

I asked the tech to tell me if there was an power steering failure error stored in the log but he never got back to me.

Good to hear that.

I tried again turning the key OFF and clutch in while coasting on a small hill at ~25mph. There was a definate increase in steering load so I knew the eletric steering was off, but it was still not bad and not much more different than my RX7 (with manual steering) was. I feel it was much easier than any standard hydrolic power steering vehicle I have driven when the engine stopped or belt came off. So bottom line is with the electronic fail safe, as GOMEZ posted, and my test, the RX8 has a very safe steering system.