My Rx8 will be going to the dyno soon. This time a forum member and moderator will come down to make a story for Rx tuner magazine. This will be my story on some of the potential I have found with the rx8 and nitrous for the magazine. I will leave no secrets untold. I expect 350 rwhp with no problems, 350 reliable hp is my goal to run in the 11 second zone with drag radials on my daily driving Rx8.

Good Luck ... look forward to the results.

Gonna do a n2o and a non-n2o run? Love to see what it does with the porting alone.

Yeah, me too. Good luck! post some pics of the mods. I'd like too see what porting does...

Oh man. Can i be the first member to get his 8 'done up'? Please!

Good luck..I'm interested in seeing how the stock rx-8 drivetrain components will hold up to some nitrous assisted launches on drag radials or some et streets. Hope all goes well on the dyno.

Sweet !

what does porting and polishing a Renesis run $$?$$

Exciting stuff, can't wait to see!

Mr P&P, what transmission are you running? Also can you say what you did about the side seal clearances?

Good luck, I am a lot more interested to hear about what porting etc. has yielded you but I am also interested in learning the secrets of the 150 shot. If you are shooting for 350RWHP that means you aren't making too much more than 200rwhp without the nitrous though, which is kind of a let down, but will wait and read the article before making and judgements.

good luck ito!

I'll bet this thread will be a sticky by tonight. Can't wait to see that article.

are you runnign the stock tranny? it would be great if it coul dtake those kinda' numbers while being launched hard. :D oh please please work and not break my baby wants some added zoom-zoom too. lol

good luck, cant wait to see.

good luck, cant wait to see.

Ditto, look forward to updates and dyno numbers

Sounds great, runs both with and without nitrous, please...

good luck

Good Luck, Hopfully u can make it to ur next oil change LOL, runs with and without nitrous is the only way.

POLAK YOU SUCK:) now that that's out of the way i cant wait to read the story. good luck Mr. PnP. my future plans for my renesis are along the lines of yours. thank you for being there first.

Nice! I would love to see the gains on P&P alone (w/o N2O) and of course with N2O. Good luck Mr. PnP!

That is really awesome PandP. Although I find it weird that everyone is welcoming you with open arms now(not that they shouldn't be). I'm very excited to see the potential of this awesome engine. One last thing, do you go to Raceway Park in Englishtown? Just wondering, I thought I heard someone say you frequented there, it would be cool to see you drag it once. Thanks and good luck.

Did your shop do the porting? and if so.. sign me up :)

What do you think the hp potential would be with just this...? thankx p&p.. a former member :)

good luck and i am very much looking forward to seeing some numbers!

gotta know what the P&P costs. i'm very much interested!

Port and polish is probably going to run from $300-$700. Of course if you cant R&R the motor yourself thats an extra $500-$1000, plus you will have to strip the accessories, another $200 if you can't do it yourself, plus you will have to replace the seals etc. at the same time so $500-$1000 in parts and then of course the labor of pulling the motor apart and putting it back together. Added up quick didn't it. :eek:

It will be interesting to see the hp gains just from the port and polish.
Curious what the most hp can be obtained from the Renesis in its naturally aspirated form.

It will be interesting to see the hp gains just from the port and polish.
Curious what the most hp can be obtained from the Renesis in its naturally aspirated form.

I agree, while 350whp will be nice to see, I'd be more interested to see what it's capable of without the juice.

As will I. This is very cool. But one major question at this point... what are you doing for engine management?

Yoda Man Ito! Make It Happen Mutha F!#@#!!!!

As will I. This is very cool. But one major question at this point... what are you doing for engine management?


That is the 64k question!

Charles isn't using any engine management I don't think although he is only running a 55 shot(maybe 75, don't remember) and he said everything is fine. I'm sure Ito has some sort of solution, maybe an emanage or canzoomer? Maybe he's going to see if the stock PCM will handle it?
Question about running rich/lean. If you were running rich like most rx8s meaning that you're not burning all of your fuel, wouldn't something like nitrous or FI help to lean it out by increasing efficiency? I may be assuming to much, but would like to hear an expert's opinion.

A few random questions for Mr. P&P once he's ready to spill the beans:

1) You said earlier you have enough work and won't be doing this for customers, but how much would you guestimate that another shop would charge?

2) You were having transmission troubles originally, right? Did you beef up your transmission or replace it altogether?

3) What ECU?

4) Are you still making 240 rwhp on a streetable motor, and also what's behind the big surge in power at the upper end of the graph?

5) Any other mods this time, or just port + nitrous?

Charles said he was using wet nos so the ecu problem wasn't a problem. I don't know if this matters with p&p, I don't know if this matter cause he's using such a massive shot, just reitterating (sp?)

Dark Knight

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but why don't you guys actually wait for proven results to verify the claim this time? Don't jump the gun to never get any results. When they come in, then start asking questions. I don't want to see another thread where someone makes a claim but doesn't answer all of the questions for whatever reason. Ito (P&P): I'm not trying to be a prick to you here but to avoid another situation where you get frustrated with us and end up going over to nopistons.com and badmouthing us again to all 4 of the people on that entire forum, verify your claims and post EVERYTHING you did to the car. If you have a secret about anything, please don't post anything at all. If you are willing to divulge all, then please let us know. It's all or nothing. Saying that, good luck to you and I hope you hit the numbers you are hoping for. Please don't get all pissed off again just because there may be some doubters.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but why don't you guys actually wait for proven results to verify the claim this time? Don't jump the gun to never get any results. When they come in, then start asking questions. I don't want to see another thread where someone makes a claim but doesn't answer all of the questions for whatever reason. Ito (P&P): I'm not trying to be a prick to you here but to avoid another situation where you get frustrated with us and end up going over to nopistons.com and badmouthing us again to all 4 of the people on that entire forum, verify your claims and post EVERYTHING you did to the car. If you have a secret about anything, please don't post anything at all. If you are willing to divulge all, then please let us know. It's all or nothing. Saying that, good luck to you and I hope you hit the numbers you are hoping for. Please don't get all pissed off again just because there may be some doubters.
My Rx8 made 242 rwhp, to that you take away about 17 hp when ignition timing is being retarted for nitrous activation. That brings the engine down to about 225rwhp, out of the 150 nitrous shot into the engine, there is about 10 to 15% hp loss through the drivetrain. I've just about seen a 25hp loss out of a 150 shot to the engine, landing a 125hp increase to the 225rwhp giving me 350rwhp. Not only have I planned everything out, but I have done all kinds of test and tunning with my kids 91 Rx7 6 port streetport on nitrous(most hp with nitrous I pulled out of her engine, reliable, was 261rwhp and 217tq using stock ecu and afm,I later dynoed 280rwhp but I could hear detonation and backed the tunning down to 261rwhp on 93 octane) On my Rx8 I could even go higher octane and shot the engine with a 190 to 210 shot but that is not my goal. My goal is 93 octane and reliable horsepower. A 150hp nitrous shot using 93 octane and adjusting ignition timing will not comprise reliability. In extreme cases with full race cars I have used up to 230 n20 shot and ran a full drag racing season (over 100 quarte mile runs) without tearing the engine apart. When I did tear the race engine apart I did not notice any abnormal premature wear on seals. This was done with fine tunning of course. If the engine is not tunned properly seals will wear down..

Sweet !

what does porting and polishing a Renesis run $$?$$
I'm not sure as far as total cost. I did spend 1,200.oo in seals. corner seals and springs, side seals and springs, apex seals and springs, oil seals, complete engine gasket set, oil seal control rings and springs. To that you add labor, every shop has different labor cost. I want to add that I will not except work. nothing personal to you or anyone else.

Mr P&P, what transmission are you running? Also can you say what you did about the side seal clearances? I payed close attention to the closing edge of the intake port. My ports are on steroids HUGE.. I'm going to brace my tranny, but G-Force engineering transmission is going to look into building me some stronger gears. (I have shattered a couple in the past) I swear Mazda should let me build an "Ito-Spec" Rx8 in there performance department. Some people would get a serioulsy faster, stronger Rx8 from the show room.
It's all possible, I'm basically doing something they could offer for the serious enthusiats. The difference would be a higher sticker price.

That is really awesome PandP. Although I find it weird that everyone is welcoming you with open arms now(not that they shouldn't be). I'm very excited to see the potential of this awesome engine. One last thing, do you go to Raceway Park in Englishtown? Just wondering, I thought I heard someone say you frequented there, it would be cool to see you drag it once. Thanks and good luck.
Yes I drag race at e-town all the time. Velocity red Rx8 Stats: 5'10" 225lbs brown coco skin, curly black hair. Next time your around and you see me in the staging lanes just stop by and say hello. I love to talk about anything rotary.

Did your shop do the porting? and if so.. sign me up :)

What do you think the hp potential would be with just this...? thankx p&p.. a former member :)
I own a rotary performance shop. But I'm currently not taking in work. My shop is me, I am my shop. meaning I'm a one man operation.

As will I. This is very cool. But one major question at this point... what are you doing for engine management?
The Rx8 runs extremely rich from the factory ecu. I will not touch the ecu and concentrate on fine tunning nitrous mixtures with a wet nitrous system. The biggest problem is too much timing advance. That is where all the reliability will come from. controling the already super advanced ignition timing the Rx8 comes with under a load.

Ito why all the hype man, just do it then post. I hope it woks out for ya!! Please post some dyno graphs when you get them.

Ito why all the hype man, just do it then post. I hope it woks out for ya!! Please post some dyno graphs when you get them.

That's the way he posts on this forum. ;)

Ito:
Any pictures of your ports, just for the droolfactor?

Ito why all the hype man, just do it then post. I hope it woks out for ya!! Please post some dyno graphs when you get them.no hype just answering some questions. O and the real hype is I'm excited about this renesis engine.

If someone ever posts some pics of the ported engine, I'd love to do something like that to mine when the warranty is gone. Which should only be another 12 months for me.

Sadly, I dont know enough to figure it out on my own though. Looking forward to the article.

Just a question to the naysayers. What is the point of even posting, if you have nothing positive to say? People post on this site about which way they have their toilet paper set up. Ito is letting us know that he's back, and ready to do some awesome tuning on his RX8. This is good news, at least to me. I want to see the potential of this car. If you don't then that's fine, but you posting things like this it doesn't do anything but ruin Ito's respect(or anyone undertaking projects for that matter) for the forum as a whole. Remember what happened last time? I don't see people attacking Richard Paul or Hymee, or Charles like you do to Ito. Leave the guy alone and let him do his thing. I for one want to see his 8, along with others rock some serious speed.

Yeah well Hymee and Richard are taking a different approach in that once they finish it will become available to those who want it. Ito does not.. Thats why everyone got on his case last time.. and it looks like it's happening again.

I just agree with the whole "all or nothing" comment someone made. If you have secrets, and want to be secretive about your work, dont bother posting anything. I think that was the reference made to another thread started by P&P before, that turned into a huge cluster f**k of arguments, and flaming.

If someone wants to posts dynos, fine. But if someone asks what mods youve done, or how you went about it, dont say "i cannot devulge at this time". Isnt this forum suppose to be an e-family of 8 owners?

And this is speaking in general, not directed soley at you P&P. But i remember that thread from before that turned bad real quick.

Hes not hiding anything. He ported his motor, and is now adding a 150 shot of nitrous, plain and simple. Get all the ports as big as you possibly can, including the exhaust, smooth out the edges, bridge the tri-ports, and v-wallah, you have an RX8 that idles like a monster from the rotary lagoon and makes great power up top. You can do all that yourself with a die grinder, 2 pieces of plexi glass, and a perminant marker (really).

Its ok ITO, I still love you.

Could the crybabies not ruin a thread like this again please? I mean, really, cry on the political boards or "gay or not" boards for now and leave this up to the eager fans.


mmm-kay?

blah blah no one is crying, were asking to not have this thread become another failure.

And i personally would love to see an rx8 making that kind of power. :o

Yeah well Hymee and Richard are taking a different approach in that once they finish it will become available to those who want it. Ito does not.. Thats why everyone got on his case last time.. and it looks like it's happening again.

no its not dave. mr. pnp has only just laid out his plan. once he is done and ready to run then there will be an article in RXTuner with the results.

So how are results available in RXTuner the same thing as Hymee or Richard offering their product to the public? Unless your saying that RXTuner will be his springboard to offering such a product nation wide, but I am not sure your prepared to say that.

but anyway.. back to the thread.. good luck wtih your work.

Good luck man .

So how are results available in RXTuner the same thing as Hymee or Richard offering their product to the public? Unless your saying that RXTuner will be his springboard to offering such a product nation wide, but I am not sure your prepared to say that.

but anyway.. back to the thread.. good luck wtih your work.
So you're saying that since he's not selling anything, we should insult his attempts at awesome? He is doing this:
1) to make his car fast
2) to show everyone RX8 owner that they too can make their car fast

So what if he's not selling it, porting isn't something only Ito can do, he might be very good at it, but that doesn't mean others can't do it. This is very similar to what Hymee and Richard are doing in that they are working to advance performance of this awesome car. Make you own opinions, but insulting someone's work because they're not selling it to you is chilidish.
More good luck Ito.

The more information we have on performance the better. The fact that Judge Ito wants to share it with us is awesome. I wish him the best of luck and hope he can break into the 12's.

Ito, have you looked at any suspension mods to stiffen up the rear end and keep your wheel hop down? Charles Hill says his RB sway bar helps alot, that is what I have so.....

Nah.. it just gets to the heart of what the old thread was about and why it got so heated..

but to the point of being old.. i'll shutup.

I want to talk about reliability with nitrous for a second. This is the reason I'm a bit excited about my ported renesis engine on my Rx8. I have found, through test and tunning with my kid's 91 6 port streetport Rx7 on nitrous that a 150 hp increase while seems a bit extreme could add a serious punch to a street driven Rx7 or Rx8 for pennies on the dollar in comparison to other bolt ons, and maintain reliability.

The 91 Rx7 engine was built in May 2004. Some dyno runs were made all motor, engine made 165rwhp and 139tq. Rx7 is basically stock with a ported engine and Racing Beat complete exhaust. Stock ecu, afm and stock injectors. At this point I checked the compression, and the numbers were at 125psi over all compression from the combined 3 chambers, equally on both rotor housings. I wanted to see if a high dosage of continuous abuse of nitrous, would create some early loss of compression and corner seal spring failure.
I installed a nitrous kit. I started with a 100 hp shot on got the power up to 200.3whp and 172tq. At this point the car is driven seriously hard every single day(10 sets of rear tires have been changed from daily burnouts,2 broken trannies,one broken clutch,2 broken diff and 1 broken axle) The car is tested at our local racetrack with nitrous and pulled 14 second elapse times. About a month later, back to the dyno. I increased the nitrous hp levels to 150 and manage to pull 239 and later 261whp and 217tq. Take the car back to the racetrack and run in the 13.8 with street tires and a rookie driver. On the way home from the race track, I was driving the car for about 15 minutes on and off, with continuous nitrous for over 140 miles per hour and really trying to break the engine. What would take me about 45 minutes to get home, was done in 20 minutes. I heard absolutely no detonation and the car was feeling awesome.

The next day I re-check compression and my numbers were 127psi equally on both rotor housings.
I feel a 150 hp shot well tuned with the proper ingnition timing will make the Rx8 seriously fast for pennies on the dollar and not effect reliability. Thats why I'm a bit excited about a ported renesis on nitrous.

If fellow members for the third time want to get on my case, for what ever reason, I will just about walk away from this forum. I understand many members are interested in my research and that is why I am back. So I ask some members to just relax and let me do my job.

So far I think I've seen more people jumping down other people's throats because they're afraid they'll get on your case, than people actually giving you a hard time! Whatever...this is pretty exciting. I've never been a huge fan of nitrous, but if what you've found holds true with the Renesis...it is pretty damn exciting.

jds

acosta motorsports does porting for the Renesis engine.there located in nj

more power to you dude, maybe a couple of years down the road when all this stuff is figured out I'll be able to afford some of it...lol

Avoid the naysayers and keep it coiming, I say. I don't like the idea of nitrous personally, but I'm very much looking forward to reading the upcoming article.

I don't know much about nitrous, how many shots can you get out of a bottle is your doing say 100 shot? Would it be possible to deisgn a sort of nitrous system with a "super charger" effect? by that I mean it kicks in at the low end for some torque every time you accelerate and backs off after a certain rpm basically boosting the low end of the car?

I don't know if that kinda systemw ould be considered a "shot" or not, but if every time you accelerated you engine got feed a 25-50 shot briefly, how long would would your bottle last? Ho much is it to fill a bottle anyways?

Charles, how much does it cost to refill your tanks?

Yeah well Hymee and Richard are taking a different approach in that once they finish it will become available to those who want it. Ito does not.. Thats why everyone got on his case last time.. and it looks like it's happening again.

Ito does share lots of technical knowledge with us and I am certain both Richard and Hymee might benefit from it as well as all of us enthusiasts who like to learn more about rotary engines. It doesn't matter to me whether he wants to sell his ideas or not. What's important is that it is a learning experience for all of us and it usually boosts interesting discussions. Amen.

If fellow members for the third time want to get on my case, for what ever reason, I will just about walk away from this forum. I understand many members are interested in my research and that is why I am back. So I ask some members to just relax and let me do my job.
LIAR! You're so full of it!

Haha, just kidding bro. Good luck, and let me know how things go. And if you ever need help trying to break some motors, give me a call. I seem to have no problem popping motors. ;)

its a good thing to have people experimenting with the renesis. it takes large amounts of money, time and effort that i would never be able to do, and so i am grateful for anyone that is working on it and generous enough to share whatever about it they wish.

and special thanks for some relief from the endless "which wing/rims/body kit" will make my car "phat and wicked".

james

Ok MR. Port and Polish.

Here's my question: You said you started with 242RWP.

I've only seen dyno's run between 170 and 180RWHP.

So what the hell do you have that starts HP at 242?

You don't even have a modified ECU.

Please answer this question as many people here would die just to get 242 RWHP.

Ok MR. Port and Polish.

Here's my question: You said you started with 242RWP.

I've only seen dyno's run between 170 and 180RWHP.

So what the hell do you have that starts HP at 242?

You don't even have a modified ECU.

Please answer this question as many people here would die just to get 242 RWHP.

He bridge ported the tertiary ports.
That is all.

Am i this said "forum member and moderator" ?

Ok MR. Port and Polish.

Here's my question: You said you started with 242RWP.

I've only seen dyno's run between 170 and 180RWHP.

So what the hell do you have that starts HP at 242?

You don't even have a modified ECU.

Please answer this question as many people here would die just to get 242 RWHP.

He blew air on the car while dynoig it.

He blew air on the car while dynoig it.
For your sake i hope that was Sarcasam.

Am i this said "forum member and moderator" ?

i thought so. that's why i said :

POLAK YOU SUCK:) now that that's out of the way - i cant wait to read the story. good luck Mr. PnP. my future plans for my renesis are along the lines of yours. thank you for being there first.

a couple of pages ago. :p

For your sake i hope that was Sarcasam.
Sarcasm? No. No air - no power. BMW tuner Dinan showed different power outputs depending on the amount of air being blown on the car while dynoing. They used a 470hp Dinan's M5 (415 expected at the wheels). It put out only 334hp whp on a dyno without blowing air and closed hood. Open the hood and turn on a small shop fan blowing air at 10mph and the number goes up to 371hp at wheels. Still not there. Start a $7000 electric fan that blasts air at 75mph and you'll see big 411 whp. So basically without a wind tunnel or an efficient blower there is no way to measure real hp on a dyno. And even if you take the engine out, the computer won't be fooled and without blowing air it wont show you its full potential. I bet you $50 that is the case with RX8. I wonder if anybody ever tried it.

Heh, I heard about that. I read a story somewhere about a new dyno that's been developed, apparently the power created by the car's spinning wheels is used to power a hydraulic pump, which in turn spins a huge fan. So apparently it isn't just BMW that observes airflow. I think it was at a Mustang website but I can't remember where, I just remember that there's only two of them in the US right now.

Sarcasm? No. No air - no power. BMW tuner Dinan showed different power outputs depending on the amount of air being blown on the car while dynoing. They used a 470hp Dinan's M5 (415 expected at the wheels). It put out only 334hp whp on a dyno without blowing air and closed hood. Open the hood and turn on a small shop fan blowing air at 10mph and the number goes up to 371hp at wheels. Still not there. Start a $7000 electric fan that blasts air at 75mph and you'll see big 411 whp. So basically without a wind tunnel or an efficient blower there is no way to measure real hp on a dyno. And even if you take the engine out, the computer won't be fooled and without blowing air it wont show you its full potential. I bet you $50 that is the case with RX8. I wonder if anybody ever tried it.

you are correct but in this case this person did indeed bridgeport his renesis. shoving air at it would not account for a +/- 70 whp increase in this particular situation.

LIAR! You're so full of it!

Haha, just kidding bro. Good luck, and let me know how things go. And if you ever need help trying to break some motors, give me a call. I seem to have no problem popping motors. ;)

I am quite good at popping motors too.

you are correct but in this case this person did indeed bridgeport his renesis. shoving air at it would not account for a +/- 70 whp increase in this particular situation.
I know he did. 70 hp is way too much even for an air storm. Proper porting will do the trick though ;) well.... hopefully. It sounds like porting is the best tuning method to get significant hp increase and it maybe hell of a good idea for FI applications, provided that side seal problem is a real issue here.

I know he did. 70 hp is way too much even for an air storm. Proper porting will do the trick though ;) well.... hopefully. It sounds like porting is the best tuning method to get significant hp increase and it maybe hell of a good idea for FI applications, provided that side seal problem is a real issue here.

Didn't you post above about a 77 whp increase by using a big fan?
411-334 = 77?
This all confuses me, don't take this as an insult man, I'm just not understanding why an engine needs to be fed massive amounts of air to dyno correctly, moreso than while driving. What's the point of using fans? to sell more products? Any info is appreciated. Thanks.

You cannot look at it in absolute values. 77 hp over 334 that is about 22% but 70 hp over 170-180 (what on average we're getting from dynoing rx8) equals roughly 41% - such a gain is unreal. But I am sure that 20% more can be squeezed from rx8 and that would equal 35hp bringing whp to 200-210. Why it needs air to release all the power? WTF knows? I wish I did .......I can only speculate. Perhaps if there is not enough air and the engine is put to stress (high revs) computer retards timing and changes a/f proportions to protect it. Dont worry you will never run out of air while driving it so all the ponies will be pulling on the road... they get lazy on a dyno though :)
I remember an article in Car and Driver about the effects of using different octane gas on power. Among tested cars was bmw m3 they could never get any real numbers from a dyno on this car because of the lack of blowing air... so they did not post any results for the bimmer.
BTW what do you mean sell more products? Fans you mean? Dont think mazda really cares about how the fans sell... but then who knows that might be a good point :rolleyes:

I am quite good at popping motors too.
Fortunately it's usually other people's motors that I blow ... fortunately for me that is :D

Fortunately it's usually other people's motors that I blow ... fortunately for me that is :D
Are you gonna be driving any rx8s sent to wolf for ecu tuning... say for testing or something?

Errr...to everyone above, the point about the fans wasn't "let's simulate how air would be rammed into the motor at highway speeds, maybe that's why power is missing".

The point was: apparently the BWM (our car too, maybe) can sense that the airflow is not matching up with the apparent MPH, so it cuts back on the fuel or timing or what have you. So maybe we won't see an honest, 100% bone stock RX-8 making ~ 200 rwhp until someone runs the car on a 4 wheel dyno with big fans. [/wishful thinking]

Either that, or we're actually only getting 215 or so at the crank, so 180 rwhp is actually accurate. :( If that's the case, then jumping to 242 rwhp is....absolutely unholy. (Or, we're making 238 even during dyno testing, but our transmissions are lubricated with wood glue and pencil shavings.)

Sarcasm? No. No air - no power. BMW tuner Dinan showed different power outputs depending on the amount of air being blown on the car while dynoing. They used a 470hp Dinan's M5 (415 expected at the wheels). It put out only 334hp whp on a dyno without blowing air and closed hood. Open the hood and turn on a small shop fan blowing air at 10mph and the number goes up to 371hp at wheels. Still not there. Start a $7000 electric fan that blasts air at 75mph and you'll see big 411 whp. So basically without a wind tunnel or an efficient blower there is no way to measure real hp on a dyno. And even if you take the engine out, the computer won't be fooled and without blowing air it wont show you its full potential. I bet you $50 that is the case with RX8. I wonder if anybody ever tried it. Ok its not so much how fast the air is moving its how much air is being moved. If you held a dustbuster can up to the intake you’re probably propelling air at some 40+mph at the tip of the Dustbuster straw, but you’re only moving a tiny amount of air. So the more important factor is that you move a large volume of air over the intake, the C&D article your referring too was pretty much a windtunnel moving 11,000 cubic feet (check my #'s) of air per second. And also the major different between our car and the cars in that article is all cars they tested had some from of Forced Induction which probably contributed to the rise large rise in HP (all had air intercoolers), more then a N/A would.

But I'm willing to admit that you right that sticking the 8 on that particular Dyno would yield a close to real world HP number, but it still won’t be exact. For me it’s enough that I know that a 3100-3200lbs car can run a 14.5@94MPH under a hp calculator that’s putting about 197-205 to the wheels which makes me happy. ITS JUST A DAMN #'!!!!

I also fail to see how and I fail too see how the windtunnel Dyno is pertinent to Mr.P&P's testing?.... He dyno'd his stock 8 before he did his porting and he got a 197 once and 184 another time. Then he worked his magic and he dyno’d again and got 242..... As a comparative tool especially if done on the same day nothing beats a Dyno......

Errr...to everyone above, the point about the fans wasn't "let's simulate how air would be rammed into the motor at highway speeds, maybe that's why power is missing".

The point was: apparently the BWM (our car too, maybe) can sense that the airflow is not matching up with the apparent MPH, so it cuts back on the fuel or timing or what have you. So maybe we won't see an honest, 100% bone stock RX-8 making ~ 200 rwhp until someone runs the car on a 4 wheel dyno with big fans. [/wishful thinking]

Either that, or we're actually only getting 215 or so at the crank, so 180 rwhp is actually accurate. :( If that's the case, then jumping to 242 rwhp is....absolutely unholy. (Or, we're making 238 even during dyno testing, but our transmissions are lubricated with wood glue and pencil shavings.)



Ohh, ok that makes more sense, I was not understand the whole fan thing.

You cannot look at it in absolute values. 77 hp over 334 that is about 22% but 70 hp over 170-180 (what on average we're getting from dynoing rx8) equals roughly 41% - such a gain is unreal. But I am sure that 20% more can be squeezed from rx8 and that would equal 35hp bringing whp to 200-210. Why it needs air to release all the power? WTF knows? I wish I did .......I can only speculate. Perhaps if there is not enough air and the engine is put to stress (high revs) computer retards timing and changes a/f proportions to protect it. Dont worry you will never run out of air while driving it so all the ponies will be pulling on the road... they get lazy on a dyno though :)
I remember an article in Car and Driver about the effects of using different octane gas on power. Among tested cars was bmw m3 they could never get any real numbers from a dyno on this car because of the lack of blowing air... so they did not post any results for the bimmer.
BTW what do you mean sell more products? Fans you mean? Dont think mazda really cares about how the fans sell... but then who knows that might be a good point :rolleyes:


I get it now. What I meant about selling more products, was that say a company is dynoing a product. They then use a fan to make the gains seem bigger, thus making their bogus product seem much better than it is. I made this assumption before I understood what you meant about the fans. I thought this was universal among cars which is why I was confused. Now that Baron explained that the ecu senses little to no airflow I understand it and most of my questions don't make much sense. Sorry for all of the confusion.

I also fail to see how and I fail too see how the windtunnel Dyno is pertinent to Mr.P&P's testing?.... He dyno'd his stock 8 before he did his porting and he got a 197 once and 184 another time. Then he worked his magic and he dyno’d again and got 242..... As a comparative tool especially if done on the same day nothing beats a Dyno......
Well that was just a joke... not funny?

what if the air tunnel dyno was also in a big cooler like at a meat packing plant :) and we could also have a dehumidifier there too. cold, dry, 200mph wind blowing at the car on a 4wheel dyno. yeah and then we could...:)

what if we dyno it in the outer space using rocket fuel :rolleyes: not a bad idea ha?

Well that was just a joke... not funny? no... i just don't see how its part of the issue at hand...?

Or are you a non believer in the HP he made?

what if the air tunnel dyno was also in a big cooler like at a meat packing plant :) and we could also have a dehumidifier there too. cold, dry, 200mph wind blowing at the car on a 4wheel dyno. yeah and then we could...:) Why a 4wheel/roller? 4wheel doesn't meen there is a pully attached from the rear to the front rollers it just means that you can dyno 4WD cars on them, right?. And far as im concerned there in no "half limp mode" (when the abs light turns on, its normal, alot of cars do the EVO included and they don't have a problem dynoing with the light on) if limp mode engages on the dyno you loose 100hp not 5 or 10.

Fortunately it's usually other people's motors that I blow ... fortunately for me that is :D
I haven't blown anyone elses motor yet but I am sure I would be equally skilled at that :D

exactly my point polak- i was being silly because the dyno topic is silly. you can change a number of things about the conditions you dyno in and get a different number with each change. whats the point? dyno your car on the same dyno with as close to the same conditions as possible each time you dyno. the percentage increase or decrease is alot better to go by than just the number. also looking at the charts to see where in the band the power was made.

exactly my point polak- i was being silly because the dyno topic is silly. you can change a number of things about the conditions you dyno in and get a different number with each change. whats the point? dyno your car on the same dyno with as close to the same conditions as possible each time you dyno. the percentage increase or decrease is alot better to go by than just the number. also looking at the charts to see where in the band the power was made.
sarcasam is lost on the young :(

Mr. Port & Polish were are you installing the n2o hose thats send the juice in to the car,i know charles hooks his up to the rubber piece thats attached to the air cleaner.would you reccomend any other place.

sorry, the thread grew fast and I didn't want to read it -- sorry --

Is this a wet or dry NOS setup? I think its a dry setup, correct? and, are there any #'s yet?

iam pretty sure he will use a wet system.

350RWHP? I am sure he is adding additional fuel somewhere as a rotary needs about 4 850CC injectors to handle that much HP.

350RWHP? I am sure he is adding additional fuel somewhere as a rotary needs about 4 850CC injectors to handle that much HP.
if he's ported it, i see no reason why he wouldnt have already replaced the injectors.

I think the whole point of his project was to keep as much stock as possible. Am I wrong? I was under the assumption that everything from the ECU to the Injectors is stock.

350RWHP? I am sure he is adding additional fuel somewhere as a rotary needs about 4 850CC injectors to handle that much HP.
My God! Kari is that you talking? Both cute AND technical. That there is a woman!!!

To do it the easy way you could just use an additional injector controller that doesn't touch the stock fuel or ecu systems. An additional fuel line with it's own dedicated pump could be used for this system. The factory ecu would never see it.

Am i this said "forum member and moderator" ?
Yes sir...

To do it the easy way you could just use an additional injector controller that doesn't touch the stock fuel or ecu systems. An additional fuel line with it's own dedicated pump could be used for this system. The factory ecu would never see it.

Which with this type of setup would be the best way to go in my opinion. As long as the stock injectors are up to the task of handling the power the car would be making before the nitrous (which with 230-240 that shouldnt really be a problem) adding a secondary injector or two in the intake manifold and having it set to add the fuel when you are on the spray is the way to go. This is the type of setup Icemastr has with his Turbo Van using 4 additional fuel injectors in the intake manifold set with a hobbs pressure switch to activate when the car sees above 2psi and monitored with an EGT gauge and wideband for tuning. With this large of a shot of nitrous I am sure aditional fuel beyond what the stock system would be able to provide. So while I can't say Judge Ito is using a "wet" nitrous kit for sure, I think thats most likely what he is using. For anyone that doesnt know a "wet" nitrous system is one that adds an additional fuel supply rather than just using additional fuel from the stock fuel injectors. Installing larger fuel injectors would add complications to the install as well as possibly decrease fuel economy or make the car a little less driveable.

has there been any dyno's yet amungst all this talk!

Nothing yet

When the motor received its initial port the stock injectors were kept. With the NOS set up wet or dry they would have to be upgraded.

Why would the injectors need to be upgraded with a wet nitrous set up?

Because he read it on the forum. And that is the gospel :rolleyes:

amen !!

When the motor received its initial port the stock injectors were kept. With the NOS set up wet or dry they would have to be upgraded.

:confused:

Wet kits come with an additional fuel injector you install in the intake and tap into the fuel rail, dry kits are low enough power that they are meant not to upgrade the fuel system at all. Did you read Kari's explanation of wet nitrous kits?

:confused:

Wet kits come with an additional fuel injector you install in the intake and tap into the fuel rail, dry kits are low enough power that they are meant not to upgrade the fuel system at all. Did you read Kari's explanation of wet nitrous kits?
No missed that one.... OOO i thought the difference betwenn wet/dry was where it was injected. Ok in that case not for wet, but wouldn't the combination of large ports and leaning that would occur when the Nitrous is added at least make it a good idea to have higher capacity fuel injectors?

No missed that one.... OOO i thought the difference betwenn wet/dry was where it was injected. Ok in that case not for wet, but wouldn't the combination of large ports and leaning that would occur when the Nitrous is added at least make it a good idea to have higher capacity fuel injectors?

Thats the point of the additional fuel injector(s) added that are activated only when the nitrous is used so you maintain the proper a/f ratio. This way you dont have to install larger injectors which have the potential to hinder your car (and cause problems with the ECU) when normally driving around.

In the case of a dry nitrous kit, the jet is sized to spray enough that the stock injectors can flow enough fuel to maintain the proper a/f ratio.

In Judge Ito's case, I am sure we will hear all about what was done for fuel needs etc when the article appears in RX Tuner.

:D how can you not love this woman? :D Q go out and get her a house already! and it better be a really nice one :) :D


In Judge Ito's case, I am sure we will hear all about what was done for fuel needs etc when the article appears in RX Tuner.


exactly so for all the people asking particulars you will have to wait for the article.

When is the next RX Tuner mag out if we have to wait until then?

But your signature is larger than his?

When is the next RX Tuner mag out if we have to wait until then?Won't be in November issue, probably December.

/off topic

ok..off topic for a sec...again,..

/on topic

/off topic

ok..off topic for a sec...again,..

/on topic
That's not him... that's a girl he almost got a date with at some car show MONTHS ago. (If you consider begging her to sit in his car for a photo "almost"...) ;)

That's not him... that's a girl he almost got a date with at some car show MONTHS ago. (If you consider begging her to sit in his car for a photo "almost"...) ;)


HAHAHAHAHAHA
Hey its almost in my book....haha

Won't be in November issue, probably December.
I've already got the november issue and it's not in there.

I've already got the november issue and it's not in there. No you don't, the issue with the row of 8s on the cover is October. But it still is doubtful that it will go in nov. as the issue i nearing press soon.

oh,well mine come so late, I could go to B.A.M & get it quicker

Can someone explain what is ment by "ported" renesis? i know renesis is the engine but what is the ported part lol

Since I love to research and paste, here you go

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=34650&highlight=porting+renesis

Would not want to disappoint
P.S. If RotaryGod is posting you know you will get some useful info....:)

thanks alot

Any Updates? When you said soon, I thought you meant a week or two. Should I expect another week, month, or so before we get a report on the results?

I appreciate your sharing this with us, and look forward to finding out what you are able to do with Nitrus.

On an odd note, Paintball guns call their air tanks Nitrus, but its just compressed air.

I'll give you a call to set up a date ITO, we've kept em waiting long enough.

If paintballers used nitrous to propel the ball, that would be one cold ball comin' at ya!

Charles

I've been shot by both N02 and C02. There is no difference other then Accuracy with N02

I've been shot by both N02 and C02. There is no difference other then Accuracy with N02 Not entirely true.

NO2 is more stable than CO2. CO2's pressure will constantly change when used without a proper regulator and will actually liquify during heavy use. That's why players started switching to NO2 vs CO2 and that is also why NO2 results in much more accurate (not really, more consistant) shots.

EDIT: and yes, for the most part, the Nitrogen we use in paintball is just compressed air.

Not entirely true.

NO2 is more stable than CO2. CO2's pressure will constantly change when used without a proper regulator and will actually liquify during heavy use. That's why players started switching to NO2 vs CO2 and that is also why NO2 results in much more accurate (not really, more consistant) shots.

EDIT: and yes, for the most part, the Nitrogen we use in paintball is just compressed air.

I did'nt want to get that detailed in my post, but you are right.

Not entirely true.

NO2 is more stable than CO2. CO2's pressure will constantly change when used without a proper regulator and will actually liquify during heavy use. That's why players started switching to NO2 vs CO2 and that is also why NO2 results in much more accurate (not really, more consistant) shots.

EDIT: and yes, for the most part, the Nitrogen we use in paintball is just compressed air.
^^^ Yep. CO2 actually performs better in its ideal conditions compared to Nitro, but ideal conditions never happen for CO2 since the constant release from the tank starts chilling your tank and marker very quickly, knocking the conditions right away from ideal. Also, try playing with CO2 in the winter. Your marker will freeze right up and start pouring out liquid CO2 from the barrel. The consistency of Nitro is so much better than CO2, that's the reason nearly all low-pressure rigs use Nitro.

*Re: the Edit* There are 2 types of Nitro. Everyone calls them both the same. Most places just use compressed air, which is almost 80% Nitrogen or something. Other places have pure N2. I don't know why you would want to do this since the difference is negligible, but some people want the best, most consistent shot.

All the hype and aint got shit yet. This is like a month old. Soooooo gay..................................

All the hype and aint got shit yet. This is like a month old. Soooooo gay..................................
Chill out. Responses like these are silly. They are why Ito is reluctant to come back. Answer me this, why do you male these posts? Do they change ANYTHING? They don't, let whatever is going to happen, happen. I have faith that Ito will come through, he has before. I hope you're making good progress Ito, good luck.

he sold his shop

Chill out. Responses like these are silly. They are why Ito is reluctant to come back. Answer me this, why do you male these posts? Do they change ANYTHING? They don't, let whatever is going to happen, happen. I have faith that Ito will come through, he has before. I hope you're making good progress Ito, good luck.

The reason I make these claims or post is:
1.) Talk is cheap anyone can make this post.
2.) You dont make a claim this size with out backing it up with in a decent time frame. This has been on going for way too long with little or NO progress.
3.) Bullshit should not be spread as it was here.
4.) It is a free world and IMO this thread should be locked and re-opened when and IF it ever goes on the dyno.


you dont have to like but I go on facts not B.S.

If he sold his shop what does this mean? Still working on this? Polak have you met up with him yet?

I too would like to see some progress but until then I hope he gets what he's shooting for.

I'd also like to see Ito post something in the other thread with my car so he can post some comments. Obviously he knows a lot about this stuff.

Ryan.. get a life!!!!!!!!!!! I am in the middle of negotiations with my shop. After my shop is sold. I'll finish up what I started.

I am not taking in any work. As a forum member said. My shop is being sold. Most likely I'll be working for Steve Kan at Gotham Racing in Texas. If the deal between Steve and I goes through. I will be more then Happy to port as many renesis engines as possible..

dam ,, how will i get my car to texas .thats a longgggg ride :(

I am not taking in any work. As a forum member said. My shop is being sold. Most likely I'll be working for Steve Kan at Gotham Racing in Texas. If the deal between Steve and I goes through. I will be more then Happy to port as many renesis engines as possible..


oh that would be awesome. i had the privledge of meeting Steve Kan earlier this year and he is a really nice guy. thanks for the update judge.

I am not taking in any work. As a forum member said. My shop is being sold. Most likely I'll be working for Steve Kan at Gotham Racing in Texas. If the deal between Steve and I goes through. I will be more then Happy to port as many renesis engines as possible..
I know steve as well.. He goes to a few of our monthly meetings. If you end up down here, you should help him get the 3 rotor running again. There's so many good tuners in TX, it's unbelievable.

As an observer, reading this thread from page 1, I can say what we definately don't need are persons like you, busting HIS balls.

If you ask me, I prefer to know that someone is about to do something serious on his car and wait for the result, than reading numerous posts that he should first do it and then post. If you don't like it or don't believe it or, anyway, get mad about about, its simple... DON'T read it!! :o

I am about to build a 450 hp nonturbo 1 rotor Renesis engine that gets 72 mpg. Results to come... ;)

WTF, WERES YOUR PROOF DYNO SHEETS , in fact i want to see how big is the rotor. :D

You must have found a great way to do this by making the rotor very small as well to get that sort of thermodynamic efficiency, so you forgot to mention lightweight ;).

YA BUT NONTURBO DOESN'T MEAN NON SUPER. YOU SNEEKY GUY YOU. THAT ONE ROTOR SAVES A LOT OF MANIFOLD PROBLEMS TOO. WHEN WILL IT BE PASSED cafe?

lol

YA BUT NONTURBO DOESN'T MEAN NON SUPER. YOU SNEEKY GUY YOU. THAT ONE ROTOR SAVES A LOT OF MANIFOLD PROBLEMS TOO. WHEN WILL IT BE PASSED cafe?
You'll have to wait for the magazine article expected to hit the newsstands in 6 1/2 years to see the results.

My Rx8 will be going to the dyno soon. This time a forum member and moderator will come down to make a story for Rx tuner magazine. This will be my story on some of the potential I have found with the rx8 and nitrous for the magazine. I will leave no secrets untold. I expect 350 rwhp with no problems, 350 reliable hp is my goal to run in the 11 second zone with drag radials on my daily driving Rx8.
and then the engine blows with every application ! i find it hard to believe because most are afraid of 55 shot on stock rew. its not that i dont want to believe though :rolleyes:

i wonder if he finish saleing his shop.i heard he was going to go work for gotham racing or something like that.anybody know who opened his shop???

Still in the process of selling. Gotham Racing and I cannot come to an understanding. My shop after being sold will not cater to rotaries. Most likely it will become a regular automotive shop.

and then the engine blows with every application ! i find it hard to believe because most are afraid of 55 shot on stock rew. its not that i dont want to believe though :rolleyes:
Your talking to a nitrous guru when it comes down to rotaries. I have used up to 250 horsepower shot on a bridgeported series 5 engine,that was a full drag racing car. I have done some serious test and tune with my kid's 91 daily driver Rx7 and a year later the engine is still fresh and pulling strong. That Rx7 drives around every single day with the nitrous bottle filled for some streeet action. That Rx7 dynoed 261rwhp and 217 ft tq on a ported 6 port engine using stock ecu. horsepower shot is 150hp and it does not effect reliability and yes that 150 shot packs a punch.

Still in the process of selling. Gotham Racing and I cannot come to an understanding. My shop after being sold will not cater to rotaries. Most likely it will become a regular automotive shop.
That's kind of lame, but good luck with the rest of the whole deal thing. Hope it all goes well so we can see you kicking some ass tuning your 8. Later.

Your talking to a nitrous guru when it comes down to rotaries. I have used up to 250 horsepower shot on a bridgeported series 5 engine,that was a full drag racing car. I have done some serious test and tune with my kid's 91 daily driver Rx7 and a year later the engine is still fresh and pulling strong. That Rx7 drives around every single day with the nitrous bottle filled for some streeet action. That Rx7 dynoed 261rwhp and 217 ft tq on a ported 6 port engine using stock ecu. horsepower shot is 150hp and it does not effect reliability and yes that 150 shot packs a punch.
I have some rotory experience but none of it with nitrous. im talking from ingnorance and waiting to see the truth. Im saving up for my own rx8 as we speak and want to have fi, porting, and possibly nirous as well. i have been extremly impressed with the people who are doing these thing so far. keep up the good work.

I love my 55 shot, currrently I am building a Monster of a 2nd gen Turbo II RX-7, or I would be prepping the 8 for a 75 shot. And I also trust if he says it can be done IT CAN.

do we ever get to see pics of the porting and dyno sheet?

do we ever get to see pics of the porting and dyno sheet?
Not yet, Ito is in the process of selling his shop and moving into a new one or something like that. He said he was having some problems working some of that out, but he'll be back soon enough to quench or thirst for 350hp.

i'm curious to see what he did with the ports. am i the only one who has shared anything so far?

last i heard he was going to work for gotham racing or something like that

i'm curious to see what he did with the ports. am i the only one who has shared anything so far?Yours aren't for some top secret magazine article that no one knows about. ;)

no, but i'm trying to get ahold of rxtuner to see if they'll do a quickie for a not-so-top-secret writeup :p:

My engine is stock. no ports, no nitrous. in all honesty. just close this thread. not worth my time... If members would see what I have done to my renesis 8 months ago, jaws would hit the ground. I honestly lost interest in showing my documented pictures and story of my secretive ported engine. I was always being watch by mazda and told clearly to leave the car bone stock. At this point what am I doing this shit for? All the good research I have found and can't share it, because big brother mazda is looking down on me.. F U Mazda..

I honestly lost interest in showing my documented pictures and story of my secretive ported engine. I was always being watch by mazda and told clearly to leave the car bone stock. At this point what am I doing this shit for? All the good research I have found and can't share it, because big brother mazda is looking down on me.. F U Mazda..

And on that note....

We should close this thread, and NEVER speak of it again. This thread has been all talk since the beginning, and has ended the same way. Despite the fact that this is mostly due to keeping things from Mazda, it doesn't change the fact that if you cant share stuff with other, there's absolutely no point in having a thread about it.

Thats strange you allready said you lost your warranty so who cares what mazda says .theres people who put turbos on and posted pictures ,dyno sheets and so on mazda cant do anything but take your warranty away.


p.s did you sell your shop yet .i heard your going to work for gotham racing ???

i don't understand why mazda would come down on you--do you work for them or something?

in any case, email me some pics. i wanna see.

When you buy something it is yours and you are free to do with it as you please. Mazda CAN'T tell you what to do and therefore you have nothing to hide. See, that wasn't so hard was it? Acosta took a 3 rotor RX-8 to Sevenstock 6. I don't recall Mazda saying anything bad about it.

When you buy something it is yours and you are free to do with it as you please. Mazda CAN'T tell you what to do and therefore you have nothing to hide. See, that wasn't so hard was it? Acosta took a 3 rotor RX-8 to Sevenstock 6. I don't recall Mazda saying anything bad about it.
car still belongs to mazda..

oh ok so it a lease that would explain everything

car still belongs to mazda..
Now that is a useful explanation.

yep. mr. port and polish is a real winner.

With answers like that how can you blame people for flaming on him?

With answers like that how can you blame people for flaming on him?

Yep, still being cryptic. Mazda owns it, does that mean I leased it or, Mazda gave it to me for a project car with a duty to report all progress to them, and they retain ownership, with reasonable royalties for his improvements. Kind of an after market licensing thing. Looking at his threads in the totality, it appears he's leasing it, and the shop's not doing very well, so it must be sold. I agree, close and delete this thread, it adds nothing to the knowledge base. Just takes up space.

....what a total let down...

Yep, still being cryptic. Mazda owns it, does that mean I leased it or, Mazda gave it to me for a project car with a duty to report all progress to them, and they retain ownership, with reasonable royalties for his improvements. Kind of an after market licensing thing. Looking at his threads in the totality, it appears he's leasing it, and the shop's not doing very well, so it must be sold. I agree, close and delete this thread, it adds nothing to the knowledge base. Just takes up space.
The honorable thing to do here from my behalf is to show what I did and report my findings. I decided to do so. I will not deny Rx8 owners. I will deal with Mazda in my own way.

The reason I am selling my shop is very simple to me. I turn my hobby into a business, Many years later I no longer have a life or a hobby. My life is consumed by customers and my shop. I have a bad taste in my mouth because of that and I no longer wish to own a business. I have work coming out of the 4 corners of my shop. I take one step forward and 3 backwards. I am seriously overwhelmed with work and it's not going to slow down. it hasn't in the last 17 years.

People tell me get help. I tried and it was not worth my time. half my time I was teaching and loosing precious time.

All I ask members at this point is to bare with me. I will show results and pictures. is the least I could do.

Yep i here you port & polish speacialy when you hire people to help you and they end up stealing from your shop.

A step buy step guide into the porting of the RX8 would be kinda helpful. Where I come from there is only 2 garages in the country that I know of that will touch a rotary engine.
Lets just say the garages are not local. some 300miles away.
So a good manual of how you acheived this would be very helpful to myself anyway.

A step buy step guide into the porting of the RX8 would be kinda helpful. Where I come from there is only 2 garages in the country that I know of that will touch a rotary engine.
Lets just say the garages are not local. some 300miles away.
So a good manual of how you acheived this would be very helpful to myself anyway.

Start reading about porting in general and fluid dynamics, then check out Rotary Engine Illustrated (http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/) and read about different types of porting styles. To me, the hard part is getting the engine out, tearing it down, and putting it back together again without screwing everything up. The actual porting doesn't look that bad (if you understand what you are trying to achieve). Though, if you are going to DIY, I would suggest buying a crate motor or going to a junk yard and practicing on a working scrap engine. The 12A's use carbs instead of fuel injection, so they should be easier to setup in your garage. Plus they are NA, like our cars. Not to mention buying a crate motor means that 1) you can still drive your car, 2) you can engine dyno your work (more accurate), 3) if you screw up, you car is still fine. I eventually want to port my engine. IF I do it myself, it's going to be after seeing what I can do on several crate / junkyard motors.

Saying give me a step by step isn't going to work. That's like saying "give me a step by step on how to make my car handle the way I want it to". There are so many more questions that need to be answered: How do you want it to perform? Do you want a daily driver or a race car? Do you care about emissions if it is a daily or not? Do you want to advance the port timing or not? Do you care about losing more MPG?

Then, even if he gives a DIY, you still have to be skilled enough to work the tools and understand what you are doing. A DIY is 1/2 of what you need. The other half is a mix of knowledge and (if you plan on doing a good job) experience. If you read enough, you won't need the DIY, and you'll be better off when you actually do the work. So, crack some books / websites and get to it. Otherwise, you should just ship it out to someone who has.

A step buy step guide into the porting of the RX8 would be kinda helpful. Where I come from there is only 2 garages in the country that I know of that will touch a rotary engine.
Lets just say the garages are not local. some 300miles away.
So a good manual of how you acheived this would be very helpful to myself anyway.


where have you been?
http://www.rx8club.com/forumdisplay.php?f=93

Well, I am just tired of this cat and mouse game we are playing. I am tired of trying to contact mr. P&P, just to give my support and talk, not to bug the shit out of him or ask questions, and never getting an answer back. Even when posting in a thread he has never responded to one of my questions. Well I am tacking back my support, he may have done this with any other Rotary engine, but probally not a Renesis. I don't think it will take a 150 shot without serious engine teardown and rebuild, and who would do that with a lease. Besides I think the lease thing is BS because after what he did to his first car who would lease him another just so he can do it again. It doesn't make since. Who is even to say he is the original ITO that left along time ago, it could all be a big conspiracy. If it's not finished, if you can't talk about it, if you have no helpful information to ad to the community than don't create a thread about. "I think the renesis can land 350hp with a 150 shot of NOS and a porting job", "I think the moon is made of gold" that doesn't mean you should make a thread about it if you aren't going to commment on it or provide evidence. Lets stick to the proven stuff, the stuff the real pioneers are doing, where they share the info they have found. Sorry man, I was a big supporter, and I don't even know you, but you pushed me to the other side.

doesn't matter what "tricks" you keep up your sleeve...someone else can always do them better...not at all trying to start something...just what I experienced first hand in owning my own shops, both audio and tuning...

Charles, you also don't tease everyone by making claims and then never prove it. If something is a secret, all aspects of it should be a secret. No teasers. At the very least, a realistic timeline should be followed if word must get out. Something like "I am beginning..", "I am trying...", "My ultimate goal is..." etc... You've stated that you have plans and ideas. That's great. I wish more people did. You haven't claimed to already have done them though and teased us with a new thread. That's the difference.

Personally I have just started my header project. The flanges are being drawn up in CAD this week and when I get those done they can get cut out at the machine shop. From there I start mocking up and testing the header. It isn't a project that will be done in the next month. It will go slow so I can learn. I am going to take pictures of everything as it happens. If it fails, it fails. If it works, we all knew what it took. I am also currently working on acquiring a 6 port Renesis and will be taking it apart to show flow in the ports and also what porting styles do and do not work. Hopefully I'll have the engine here within the next month or so. I don't want to keep things a secret. I'd rather educate the public so they know which shops to stay away from so people don't spend their money on bad products or services. I don't care if my car is the fastest. There's always a faster car out there somewhere. I'd rather be comfortable in knowing that everything on my car was done properly. I'm not a race team nor a business. I am trying to help other rotary owners. I do feel it my obligation to tell all I know and learn and will do so. Many of the things I will post this year from the flowbench will completely make porting "secrets" obsolete. It either works or doesn't.

i'm with RG on this. anything i learn, i'm more than willing to share. i've posted a lot of porting and renesis pics on my website with no-BS results. this is what i did...this is what i got...

diyporting.com offered to post a writeup i did on the renesis porting on their site. i declined this very cool offer because they wanted exclusive rights to it. anyone is willing to post the writeup on their site--i'd just like a link to mine if they do, but i gave my writeup to the public....NOONE has exclusive rights to it...not even me anymore :p:
if anyone wants to do things that i've done themselves, go for it--hit me up on aim and i;ll help you--make you templates, send pics, etc...... even though i'm selling this service on my website, i don't care if someone wants to use what they learned from me and expound on it...maybe they'll figure something else out and share it with me later on.

i wont' try to get more business by hiding the things i've found out--forcing people to come to me because they don't have the info. needed to do what they want to do...
i'll let my work speak for itself and hope i ger business because people like what i do and not everyone is a diy'er.

I have proof this is not Ito and as soon as I give it will probally be changed and corrected but here it is! Judge Ito's profile says his birthday is June 27, 1971, while Mr. Port & Polish's birthday is December 3, 1968, all this information is located within their user profiles, so in the time between Judge Ito and Mr.P&P he beacme three years older, and his Birthday somehow changed. This is not Ito it is just someone leading us on! So even if Judge Ito did some great thing with the Renesis that he never revealed before he left the forum, this is not him and he will never help us. I suggest we close this thread immediatly and ban this member.
Mr. Port & Polish- http://www.rx8club.com/member.php?userid=12771
Judge Ito- http://www.rx8club.com/member.php?u=4307

i'm with RG on this. anything i learn, i'm more than willing to share. i've posted a lot of porting and renesis pics on my website with no-BS results. this is what i did...this is what i got...

diyporting.com offered to post a writeup i did on the renesis porting on their site. i declined this very cool offer because they wanted exclusive rights to it. anyone is willing to post the writeup on their site--i'd just like a link to mine if they do, but i gave my writeup to the public....NOONE has exclusive rights to it...not even me anymore :p:
if anyone wants to do things that i've done themselves, go for it--hit me up on aim and i;ll help you--make you templates, send pics, etc...... even though i'm selling this service on my website, i don't care if someone wants to use what they learned from me and expound on it...maybe they'll figure something else out and share it with me later on.

i wont' try to get more business by hiding the things i've found out--forcing people to come to me because they don't have the info. needed to do what they want to do...
i'll let my work speak for itself and hope i ger business because people like what i do and not everyone is a diy'er.If your saying I'm keeping my mods a secret so people have to bring me work.. at that I laugh. I have gotten about 30 Rx8 owners calling my shop and telling me, no matter what it cost, they want more power.. and guess how many Rx8 jobs I took in?????? NONE!!!!!!!!!!!

I have so much work, is driving me insane.. I have to much on my plate to take in more work.. people just relax...

I'm saying you are not ITO!

I'm saying you are not ITO!
your right. I'm not..

I'll address every little detail. from the damage I seen at tear down, to porting the exhaust to match the diffuser and my custom mod to plug up the water jacket when porting the exhaust port. To the bridgeport and seriously large primary streetport.
i'll also address to keep the engine away from the rev limiter. Engine bearings had some indication of my over revving abuse.
People I will not deny Rx8 enthusiats.

My documented information is going to be a good read. Just relax I decided to bring the info. forward. just relax.

and for my own benefit this is not ITO..I'm his twin brother... ;)

Sounds interesting, ( custom mod to plug up the water jacket when porting the exhaust port ?

I'm saying you are not ITO!
On nopistons Ito admits he is Mr.P&P here. Explain that one!

so post up some pics.

quitarjunkie if iam not mistaking when you ported your engine you got about 15 hp i forget .i spoke to a shop which deals with porting and they said something was done wrong you should see 25 to 40 hp added .iam not sure if he was pulling my leg but i was going to have mines ported there.he said he would do dyno before and after with me there.iam interested in knowing what exactly they do diffrent .from any other rotary.

The reults you saw from snoochies car were untuned. The RX-8 already runs rich. Leaning it out should make more power and running it richer should make less. After the engine was ported, for some reason the car ran richer. This implies that it should be slower but it still made more power than stock! It's all in the tuning.

I know what your saying but they said no tunning just porting it .they done a few and there getting 25 to 40.

smrx8--

i thought like that at first too... has this shop actually done any porting on a renesis motor yet? if they haven't, i wouldn't listen to a word they say on it. these motors are a different animal compared to the older ones. also, power wasn't the ultimate goal... it was power, reliability, hp/torque throughout the rpm range, drivability, fuel economy, AND retaining the emissions legal status!!

if all i wanted was more power, i'd weld up the coolant passage by the exhaust port and hog that port out big time... porting would have been a lot more extensive, and i could have even bridgeported the thing. 25-35 would be easy to get if you're only concerned with the absolute highest number it will put down on the dyno.

even my "aggressive" porting is still relatively mild by comparison to the older engines...it'll still pass smog (assuming we put the cat back on).

honestly--how much power can you get from an older engine through porting alone (on an otherwise bone-stock car) and still pass smog? i'd say you'd be lucky to get 16.

Well like i said i never seen it. it was all by word of mouth and they did tell me they ported a few rx8 motors and got those numbers .the shop is well known. so everyone take this as you like.I wonder myself if its true



MR PORT AND POLISH , might be able to comment on this the shop is smoking joe racing

well, maybe he is It, but why different birthdates?

who cares?

who cares?



:D

well, maybe he is It, but why different birthdates?

Maybe he started Mr. P&P as an alias and therefore put down a different birthday.

maybe, but let's take the "who is mr p & p" theories to the lounge. this thread is about porting...

I just wanted to make sure we weren't being led on by someone who hadn't even performed these actions and was pretending to be someone who did. But no we can consider this myth "busted".

this thread is now useless without pics.

this thread is now useless without pics.
picture this, i'll bring the information at my convenience.

picture this, i'll bring the information at my convenience.
OHHH! Not so nice is he?

picture this, i'll bring the information at my convenience.

i'd rather picture myself on a beach with my dong floppin' in the breaze...but that'll have to do :D

lmao

why is this thread even here? Please delete it! All speculation!

i speculate that snoochies motor will make at least 300 whp @ around 10-12 psi (with bigger injectors) with the porting... but that's pretty reasonable.

I'm going to get 725 rwhp @ 73 rpm out of a non ported 1 rotor based off of a 12A running a mack truck turbo at 978 psi using a Holley double pumper carb!

why is this thread even here? Please delete it! All speculation!
I'll be making a new thread on what was done to my car. I'll ask Ryan to make it, where I could keep members like you out of the loop.

I'm going to get 725 rwhp @ 73 rpm out of a non ported 1 rotor based off of a 12A running a mack truck turbo at 978 psi using a Holley double pumper carb!
Dude calm down. for what it's worth, I'm not mad at you..

I'm going to get 725 rwhp @ 73 rpm out of a non ported 1 rotor based off of a 12A running a mack truck turbo at 978 psi using a Holley double pumper carb!



rotarygod no offense but if your going to post stuff like that you better back it up



i want dyno sheet :D and were you dynoed your car

rotarygod no offense but if your going to post stuff like that you better back it up



i want dyno sheet :D and were you dynoed your car

and the temperature outside and if you ate cereal that morning.

I believe him, I just think he should use a 55mm DCO Weber and eliminate the extra 90 degree turn. I think you will improve performance by about 27%. :rolleyes:

Edit) I'm sorry after recalculating it I find only 21%. ;)

just wait'll i get my hybrid fc going... 400 whp, 30+ mpg

it'll be great. all i need is $8-10k to buy the parts.

Another fantastic thread from Ito, P & P, whatever...

Over 4 months and no results. I can't believe I defended this guy in the first ridiculous thread (which was deleted) about this mod.

"Dude! I'm going on a date with Pamela Anderson soon, I swear! I'll take some pictures and show you when I do it." What a load.

Another fantastic thread from Ito, P & P, whatever...

Over 4 months and no results. I can't believe I defended this guy in the first ridiculous thread (which was deleted) about this mod.

"Dude! I'm going on a date with Pamela Anderson soon, I swear! I'll take some pictures and show you when I do it." What a load.
And what's your problem?

Ever thought he's busy? He's selling his fucking shop and moving while trying to find a new shop to work with, give him a break, jeez...

With respect like this it makes me wonder why he even bothers entertaining you people, he could've easily kept all of his findings to himself while you all wait many years before another person experiments with porting a renesis.

he could've easily kept all of his findings to himself while you all wait many years before another person experiments with porting a renesis.
...well, that's what he's done so far with us... :rolleyes:

...well, that's what he's done so far with us... :rolleyes:
What do you expect with Mazda threatening him?

I don't see how ANY of you can complain at all. If he doesn't ever share anything then you'll be exactly where you would've been if he hadn't ever posted. If he does, well then that's great of him and you should be appreciative. But to get upset because he's taking too long to give all the info of HIS work from HIS shop and hasn't because of either being busy or threatened by Mazda is just idiocy.

[QUOTE=dDuB]And what's your problem?

Ever thought he's busy? He's selling his fucking shop and moving while trying to find a new shop to work with, give him a break, jeez...

With respect like this it makes me wonder why he even bothers entertaining you people, he could've easily kept all of his findings to himself while you all wait many years before (another person experiments with porting a renesis)



DUDE HES NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO PORTED A MOTOR SMOKING JOE DID IT AND GOT THE SAME HP 25 TO 40

DUDE HES NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO PORTED A MOTOR SMOKING JOE DID IT AND GOT THE SAME HP 25 TO 40


Ok, I was unaware of that. Where's his thread with detailed pictures, how-to, and everything you guys want then? Why isn't it stickied or something then?

By the way, is there a reason why you're using all caps? Are you angry or does it make you feel like your point is more meaningful that way?

DUDE HES NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO PORTED A MOTOR SMOKING JOE DID IT AND GOT THE SAME HP 25 TO 40

Until Smoking Joe's posts on this site how they did it and issues they had, you still don't have any advice. Nobody forces you to read this thread, and nobody (including Smoking Joe's) is under any obligation to post results or advice much less on your time schedule.

Until Smoking Joe's posts on this site how they did it and issues they had, you still don't have any advice. Nobody forces you to read this thread, and nobody (including Smoking Joe's) is under any obligation to post results or advice much less on your time schedule.
Exactly.

Just the type of attitude I'd expect from someone who joined a less than a month ago. Ito's dealings here on this forum have all been pointless wastes of bandwidth. There was a thread about his great 1/4 times which went on for months with no timeslip posted. Dynos were promised with no results. Then an absolutely assinine topic about his "stock" engine putting out 250HP at the wheels, which over the course of two months he continued to claim was "bone-stock" and refused to give any indication of what had been done. The man was more interested in arguing over the definition of "stock" than providing any real information or results. His attitude has always been "Well, if you guys won't kiss my butt, then F* you, I won't post how I did it!" (Not that he ever has, anyway..)

All the crap about Mazda watching him is garbage. If he was that worried, he wouldn't be posting anything here. Mazda's lawyers are more than able to check IP addresses to find out who someone is.

The bottom line is this: I'm sure he knows what he's talking about with Rotaries, but all these threads he makes add up to one big, steaming pile of nothing. Why does he bother posting anything if there's no results, no proof, and no sharing of how he achieved the mystical improvements that no one can verify? One of two reasons:

#1- He's an egomaniac who wants everyone here to beg, "Oh please, O Rotary master, tell us what you've done! Pretty please? You're the coolest...." His big dramatic "walk-out" on the Forum is proof of that, but he couldn't stay away long. or...

#2- He's gearing up to sell these services to the public. You can feed me that crap about how he hasn't worked on any 8's yet, but so what? Just because a College football player isn't getting paid now doesn't mean he isn't showing off so he can make money later.

Waste. Of. Bandwidth.

Just the type of attitude I'd expect from someone who joined a less than a month ago.

Hope you're not talking to me, cause I've been here as long as you and have double the posts, not that it matters to me.

The bottom line is this: I'm sure he knows what he's talking about with Rotaries, but all these threads he makes add up to one big, steaming pile of nothing.

He has made public contributions such as a DIY porting guide for the 7 and posted it on the forums without people pleading. If this thread is for his ego (which I don't think it is) then wouldn't you just adding to it further his self-aggrandizement by having people argue over him. If he is going to make money on it, he doesn't need more advertisement. His shop was full booked when he sold it and he wasn't accepting more work. He doesn't need marketing.

Just the type of attitude I'd expect from someone who joined a less than a month ago.

I may have only been here a month but I've been on rx7club.com and nopistons.com much longer than you've been here. Your point? Just because I've owned an rx8 for less time than you makes my opinion less valid? Oh and don't forget about the fact that I've been reading stuff by ITO since before this site was even around...


Ito's dealings here on this forum have all been pointless wastes of bandwidth. There was a thread about his great 1/4 times which went on for months with no timeslip posted. Dynos were promised with no results. Then an absolutely assinine topic about his "stock" engine putting out 250HP at the wheels, which over the course of two months he continued to claim was "bone-stock" and refused to give any indication of what had been done. The man was more interested in arguing over the definition of "stock" than providing any real information or results. His attitude has always been "Well, if you guys won't kiss my butt, then F* you, I won't post how I did it!" (Not that he ever has, anyway..)

Wanna cry about it? Because it sounds like you already are...

Is anyone forcing you to read his posts? No... Is anyone forcing you to be on here anticipating his results? No... So if you're so pissed off why not just leave this thread closed and move on with your life? Obviously thats too hard for you to do since you're still here.


All the crap about Mazda watching him is garbage. If he was that worried, he wouldn't be posting anything here. Mazda's lawyers are more than able to check IP addresses to find out who someone is.

The bottom line is this: I'm sure he knows what he's talking about with Rotaries, but all these threads he makes add up to one big, steaming pile of nothing. Why does he bother posting anything if there's no results, no proof, and no sharing of how he achieved the mystical improvements that no one can verify? One of two reasons:

#1- He's an egomaniac who wants everyone here to beg, "Oh please, O Rotary master, tell us what you've done! Pretty please? You're the coolest...." His big dramatic "walk-out" on the Forum is proof of that, but he couldn't stay away long. or...

#2- He's gearing up to sell these services to the public. You can feed me that crap about how he hasn't worked on any 8's yet, but so what? Just because a College football player isn't getting paid now doesn't mean he isn't showing off so he can make money later.

Waste. Of. Bandwidth.


Sounds to me like you're a waste of bandwidth too. You don't need to be in this thread, you don't need to be reading this, and no one would care if you never had opened this thread, but yet you still feel you have the right to bitch and moan? Why don't you do something more constructive with your time since you feel this is such a big waste and all, and tear down your motor and experiment yourself? Or better yet, why not just shut up and worry about other things in your life that matter more.

Sorry if I sound harsh here but you're really making a big deal out about something that is very minor. So what if he hasn't given any hard evidence? So what if you think he's taking too long? If it's that big of a deal just move on with your life, why does it matter? Why do you care so much?

Also, take a trip over to nopistons.com and see how much he has contributed to the rotary community there with no prevoking, no begging, nothing. He just did it because he wanted to help the community. He has plenty of threads about rotary engine building, porting, clearancing, and other tips and tricks for reliable porting. What have you done for the community?

did smokin' joe get that power from the porting alone, or was there anything else involved (cat removal, header, tuning, etc...)?

Hey guys, relax. Dont turn this into a flamewar.

From MY personal experience, Mazda IS watching so be careful what you say if its damaging to you. From the other forums mentioned here, go drop ito's name and see how much respect the guy has. I'm not much into modifications so this really isnt my place to speak, but stop the fighting.

What do you expect with Mazda threatening him?

I don't see how ANY of you can complain at all. If he doesn't ever share anything then you'll be exactly where you would've been if he hadn't ever posted. If he does, well then that's great of him and you should be appreciative. But to get upset because he's taking too long to give all the info of HIS work from HIS shop and hasn't because of either being busy or threatened by Mazda is just idiocy.

Threatening on what? Warranty...give me a break. On trade secrets?
You know what? I don't give a rats tail about him or his shop or his car. I hope he does well in his life, and thathe manages to raise a good, decent kid. If he decides to take his Renesis porting templates to the grave with him: good for him.

I plainly don't care.

Don't try to preach to me on this...just, don't post any nonsense defending -justifying- him.

Hope you're not talking to me, cause I've been here as long as you and have double the posts, not that it matters to me.
And post count has what to do with anything? You got a lot to say, that's it! :p

And post count has what to do with anything? You got a lot to say, that's it! :p

I said not that it matters to me, but it is an odd point if it matters to him :p. It just means you are a post whore is all ;).

It just means you are a post whore is all ;).
Darn, I've been called classier things in my life... :D

this got ugly.
where's smokin' joe? i wanna get his opinion (and anyone else's that has actually ported a renesis so far)

this got ugly.
where's smokin' joe? i wanna get his opinion (and anyone else's that has actually ported a renesis so far)
I think Smokin' Joes is a rotary shop. I have heard about them turboing and porting things, but I haven't ever seen results. Not saying they didn't do these things, I've just never heard much about it.

i'm just curious to see if the hp gain is from just porting an otherwise stock car, like we did, or if there was anything else involved. 40 hp is one hell of a claim from a renesis.

i'm just curious to see if the hp gain is from just porting an otherwise stock car, like we did, or if there was anything else involved. 40 hp is one hell of a claim from a renesis.
I'd be curious as well, I've tried googling for their website but end up finding links to anti smoking websites or car nuts with the nickname smokin' joe. :confused:

Yeah one of you said something along the lines that we need to wait until someone else ports the renesis........done.........so anyways..

Until Smoking Joe's posts on this site how they did it and issues they had, you still don't have any advice. Nobody forces you to read this thread, and nobody (including Smoking Joe's) is under any obligation to post results or advice much less on your time schedule.


Who talking about forcing me to read this thread (when did i say that) .anyways smoking joe was going to port my engine and this is what they said. By the way what are you smoking stay away from it. i never said for him to post or gave him a time line to post his result.That just goes to show you that you need to put something in your mouth before you talk read through the threads before you open it just a friendly reminder :rolleyes:

Guys remember that smoking joe only said this by word of mouth. I never seen it or has he showed me proof not that he need too . He did offer me to go to his shop to talk about what i want it get out of my rx8 and sounded like he new his stuff .Hes ported rx8 before and had good results also turbo a few. his website is www.smokinjoeracing.net i ask but no one seem to answer my post about how he works .Hes located in long island ny

Rotarian, my post wasn't aimed at you, I was referring to dDub.

I don't care what he's done in the past, I just think it's silly to keep opening threads to make claims with no proof and continually tease people with results that never appear.

Don't think you can lecture me on Rotaries, I've owned them since before there was an internet, and the Supercharged RX-2 in my garage should let you know I've been around these engines for a while. No one on this forum has started more threads that end in speculation, rumors and secrets than this guy. I could give a rat's ass what he does to his motor, and while no one forces me to read these pointless threads, I'm just so sick of seeing them that I finally felt compelled to share my opinion.

Sorry if it bothers you (and you want to keep sucking up to Mr. Pointless Thread), but it's the truth. Plus, if there's one thing that makes me happy, it's kicking the ant pile and watching 'em scatter. :D

OFF TOPIC...

Tony... I love that new avatar!!! "CHIKAN CHUUI: Kiken jinbutsu shutsugenchuu" (Beware of Sexual Molesters: Incidence of dangerous people) You gotta send me a copy!

Back to your regularly scheduled program...

If you T/C, S/C or port your 8, you are doing so with the knowledge that your warranty from Mazda on the drivetrain is gone. So no whining about that boys and gals... Mazda chasing people down on the ner?? ...why they hell is an ISP going to go through the trouble to search the DHCP server to find your IP and then pass out customer info? If a crime had been committed... might be different... but otherwise... whatever :rolleyes:

i just hope the dealer doesn't give snoochie any shit about his tail light warranty because i ported the motor... we all know they're completely unrelated but SHIT...i bet they'll come up with some excuse if they know it's ported.

that's why i didn't paint it.

Last time I checked, I did not owe anyone anything in here. I will write a story for Rx tuner with pictures and speficic information on what I did. until then.. all this bashing makes no sense..

Not bashing you, just the thread.

I think you should've saved it all for the article. If there's no useful information in a thread, there's no point in it existing.

Good point Tony!! !'m glad to have skipped the other 16 pages..

Aw man, I thought this thread was dead and buried. Revived after a month and a half. Still no article.

this thread sucks.

it should be closed.

yeah kill it.

the funny thing is, you're right about it not being all that hard to get 350 out of porting and nitrous...i'd believe it.

but the way the thread went was just dumb. i don't think anyone is doubting ito's ability--he's good! but he just seems really arrogant-like what he says should be taken as the word of god. come on...a self-proclaimed guru? usually people wait until other people give them that designation :rolleyes:

Guys remember that smoking joe only said this by word of mouth. I never seen it or has he showed me proof not that he need too . He did offer me to go to his shop to talk about what i want it get out of my rx8 and sounded like he new his stuff .Hes ported rx8 before and had good results also turbo a few. his website is www.smokinjoeracing.net i ask but no one seem to answer my post about how he works .Hes located in long island ny
the link doesnt work...

anyone know of any shops that do porting in the philly area...or ny, its not too much farther ;)

if you can pull your motor, i can come over and port and help with the assembly.

I have a family friend that owns a mobile station, we could use his garage...where do you live and what would you charge for this?

also, think it is something that can be done in a weekend or is that unreasonable?

J&R Performance, Elmont N.Y, Best Rotory Mechanics in N.Y, They did all the work on my car, also know as SmokinJoeRacing.Net
516-616-5812

if you want it done in a weekend, you won't sleep. pm me and we'll talk price and time frame.