Here's another twist. Do you think Mazda underpriced the RX-8 to help it get a foothold in the market. Look at the alternative vehicles coming out right now:
350Z - 30k with options
G35C - 30-32k with options
STi - 31k
Evo - 30k

The STi and Evo are selling with premiums, 1k-5k above sticker.

You can't really compare the RX-8 to the above cars, but some of the people buying the RX-8 have probably thought about or have test driven the above cars. So, by pricing the RX-8 lower than the rest of the competition, Mazda is able to undercut the rest of the market.

Look at what you get in the RX-8. I think we're getting a pretty good deal at MSRP for the standard options avail on the 6 Speed model.

I believe that the rx8 is not undepriced as opposed to providing great value per dollar spent, mazda totally overpriced its rx7 here in australia and i believe that they have learnt a lesson from the previous mistake .As the rx8 is a steping stone for other rotary products mazda wants to get market share in an ever increasing car market . GREAT VALUE FOR DOLLAR YES ,UNDERPRICED NO.

Agreed, great value for the dollar. But do you think if Mazda put the base price of the RX-8 closer to 30k, would people still buy it.

Right now in the US, base price is $27,200 inc destination, with no options. What if Mazda set that price at $28,500? Mazda didn't announce the price until the last minute. So, my question is did Mazda lower the price of the RX-8 to beat the competition?

For example. The Evo 8 just came out as a competitor to the WRX. The Evo 8 is priced at 30k not including any dealer markups. Well the STi price was just announced and guess what, it's selling at 31k. Who would buy an Evo, when the more powerful and faster STi is 1k more.

Having specc'ed out a 350Z and G35 Coupe in the last two days I have to comment...

The 350Z similarly equipped to an RX-8 (with options) runs around 34-36k. This is minus navigation of course.

The G35 Coupe runs at the same price. The 6 speed manual automatically adds a plethora of options, and when you add the premium package to get the heated seats and Bose and other nicknacks... you're also in the 34-36k range.

The RX-8 fully loaded (minus the navigation), comes to 31k. This is running at a 3-5k discount over the other cars. And frankly that's quite a chunk of change. Given the plethora of safety features as well in this car that come standard, you're talking about a signifigant insurance savings as well which will essentially affect the bottom line.

The RX-8 is a lot more car for less money than its competition which is why it's so appealing. And in a gorgeous package, with the numbers its been showing for braking, skidpad, lanechange, and accelleration, compared to its competition it just seems the smarter and probably more fun buy.

But time will always tell... and while I think the RX-8 may be the most fun I won't know till I drive it. However you will know soon after, because if I don't post for a few days it's because I'm going to take a 500 mile road trip to break in the car :P

The price while it is important should only be a component of choosing a motor vehichle other factors are more important to me , but whatever you choose ,you will eventually realise whether you made the right choice , i have driven wrx sti and 350z and while both these cars are great in their own ways i could not live with them as an everyday car irespective of the price .Obviuosly mazba keeps a very close eye on its competitors especially when the rx8 is such a crucial car for them if sales are not in the wanted volumes ford that owns part of mazda may scrap the rotaries all together.

Originally posted by Hercules
The RX-8 is a lot more car for less money than its competition which is why it's so appealing. And in a gorgeous package, with the numbers its been showing for braking, skidpad, lanechange, and accelleration, compared to its competition it just seems the smarter and probably more fun buy.

With this being very true, does anyone think Mazda intentionally priced the RX-8 this way? I won't go as far as saying Mazda is losing money on this car, but it is priced very aggressively. Or you could say the other cars are just overpriced.

What I'm trying to get at is I was initially upset over having to pay MSRP for the RX-8. But the more and more I think about it, I'm really getting a heck of deal for this car. Just wondering if anyone else thought the same thing.

While it's cheaper than I had originally thought it would be, I can't complain at all because I'm able to buy one fully loaded (w/out nav, don't need or want it). I think we're getting an incredible deal, but I don't think it's necessarily underpriced.

I agree with most everyone else that Mazda did a good job pricing it at a nice "bang for your buck" price. Definitely a good value, but not underpriced!

i personally think it's underpriced...i mean they definitely could have charged a bit more for this car considering there is no competition of its kind...if you want to compare it to a sports car, you'd be comparing it to a 350Z...if you're comparing to a sedan, you'd be comparing it to a G35C or a BMW 330Ci...if you want to compare it to a 4-door, 4 seater sports car, you can't compare it to anything at all, let alone the rotary engine...the RX-8 has NO competition and thus Mazda could have priced anywhere it wanted to but to make it even MORE appealing, they decided to price it a lot lower than ALL of it's competition in the various parts...

EDIT: PS-I think Mazda priced it this way to get back in the game...they screwed up the extremely beautiful RX-7 by overpricing and I don't think they want to do that again...besides that Mazda has no real good cars right now...i can't say i ever really liked the Miata

All the points you guys are making are very true, but your forgetting one thing. The S2000. The S2000 and The Rx8 are directly compareable on so many levels. First there is price, the RX8 is 31,000 with all options but Nav. The S2000 is about 31500(now that they are not going over sticker).

Performance: RX8-Natural low displacement motor W/ 9k redline and 250p. RWD.
S2000- Natural low displacement motor W/ 9K Redlind and 240 horse. RWD.
Both cars are 6 speeds and are gutless.
Both cars handle great, look good and are worth every penny.
This is the real compatition, the 350Z is a heavy, over rated, cheaply made, Truck motor powered "Sports Car"
Just because Nissian says it's a sports car it's really not.

So for me it goes like this. Do I keep my WRX which I love to death, or do I sell it and buy a RX8 or S2000 because to me these cars are the closet match of all the currant "Sports Cars"

Not to mention there is more then a few simalaritys in the looks of these two vehs.

Just my 2 cents
Drew

Originally posted by wrxdriver Both cars are 6 speeds and are gutless.

How to make friends and influence people... I suppose you think a Formula-1 car is gutless because it doesn't have a V8 under the hood and can't pull a trailer?

I wouldn't consider the S2000 vs. RX-8 because the s200 is a convertible roadster while the RX-8, G35, and 350Z are coupes or 2+2's.

he probably didn't mean "gutless" in a bad way. Prob just saying it is a "low torque" car. I mean, he did say both were worth every penny.

nit picki - rx8 revves higher than the s2k. :)

Originally posted by CharT
I wouldn't consider the S2000 vs. RX-8 because the s200 is a convertible roadster while the RX-8, G35, and 350Z are coupes or 2+2's.

350z now comes topless :eek:

Originally posted by chenpin
he probably didn't mean "gutless" in a bad way. Prob just saying it is a "low torque" car. I mean, he did say both were worth every penny.
:)

It could be a transatlantic problem. The word may have a slightly different meaning in the US to the UK. It's a very negative term here.

Mazda wants VOLUME with this car. I think the price is exactly right -- if it was more I would presumably not go for one (it is not cheap, anyhow!). BTW in Germany I think Mazda has a very good reputation, especially due to the high volume 626 they sold years ago. Very relieable cars. But Mazda wants to move AWAY from this image, definetively!

I found two dealers here which were willing to sell about 8-10 percent below official price list. If you pay cash in Germany and not trading your old car in you normally get 12-16%, so the Rx-8 is still solid in its price.

Hopefully sales are good, THIS car deserves it (if it is as fuel effcient as they say, this will be THE crucial point!).

Cheers, Norberto.

I really think the whole competitor thing is subjective. Look at all the posts about which the "real" competitor is supposed to be- we've got the 350z, G35 coupe, S2000, 3 series, WRX STi, Lancer EVO, TSX...the list goes on and on. Maybe that's what Mazda was after? We know that it's geared towards college educated guys in their 30's- don't they usually consider all of the above? Why does it have to be geared towards a specific car or cars? Why couldn't it just be its own little niche vehicle?

It can't be it's own little niche vehicle. If it was, only Rotary enthusiast would buy it. The RX-8 has to be better and offer more than the perceived competition, so it can sell in volume.

The Evo and STi are niche vehicles and are in limited production. Mazda is talking 18,000 RX-8's a year! The RX-8 has to appeal to a wide variety of buyers unlike the 3rd gen RX-7. If not, it will fail to sell and be flop.

Underpriced, not. Overpriced.

Look at the 'entry level' Rx-8. 207 hp 4 speed automatic (US market) not comparable to the base 350Z automatic because the Z has a 5 speed automatic and is significantly faster. So lets move down a wrung.

The Civic Si is faster, so is the Tiburon V6 stick and these cars are 5000-7500 less. In this price point, those cars already handle well enough and have enough stopping power, these buyers want (need) a well rounded car, and the Rx-8 is pretty triangular.

The 6 speed manual Rx-8 is priced correctly now, but as soon as the big engine cars such as Pontiac GTO hit our shores, the big/buck advantage of the Rx-8 will be nullified. Well who in their right mind would want a mustang GT? Solid axle, monovalve engine, rear mounted fuel tank, frameless glass windows, dual beam headlights, crap weight distribution.

Civic SI and Hyundai Tiburon :loco:

The RX-8, auto or manual, is 1-2 classes above these cars. You can't really compare them against each other.

RX-8 = leading class sports car
Tiburon = entry level coupe
Civic Si = Type R wannabe

I'm not just talking about price. When you look at the features, fit/finish, technology, and driving experience, the RX-8 blows those 2 cars away.

I can take a Civic/RSX/Tiburon/Neon/Cavalier...etc and drop 2k-5k in mods and equal or better the performance of the RX-8, but it will never have the RX-8's soul. If I took that same 2k-5k and put it under the RX-8's hood just imagine what it would be like.

By gutless I ment low torque vehs. I love both cars and think that they are closer then everyone says. The 350Z, and G35 are overpriced in my eyes. For my 30,000-34,000 it would be the S2000 or RX8. I think for me the RX8 would win because it is more of a realistic, usable car. Besides my brother has an S2000, so I cna drive his anytime I want.

Again, just my 2 cents, don't mean to piss anyone off.
Drew

Personally I think it is underpriced based on the amount of equipment you get and how unique the car is. But, as people have said here, this car has to be a success for Mazda to justify carrying on with rotaries, so they've priced it aggresively.

In the marketing stuff I read it's aimed here at 30 year old couples with 1 new kid who need to upgrade from a sports car to a family car. (That's me!) The targeted cars they focus on for comparison are the Integra Type-R, IS300 (both for the back seats) and the 350Z (for new sports car, if you don't have kids). If Mazda regard the Integra-R as competition this may explain the price a bit more.

They also compare against the BMW and S2000 in all the graphs and it comes out almost identical in every aspect to an S2000. Considering that's what I've just sold I'm hoping the graphs are right!

Originally posted by JSG

In the marketing stuff I read it's aimed here at 30 year old couples with 1 new kid who need to upgrade from a sports car to a family car. (That's me!) The targeted cars they focus on for comparison are the Integra Type-R, IS300 (both for the back seats) and the 350Z (for new sports car, if you don't have kids). If Mazda regard the Integra-R as competition this may explain the price a bit more.



They're telling the industry mags it's geared towards single, college educated guys in their 30s making $70k a year. So who knows. ( automotive news (http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3895) )

Saejin, I think you misunderstood my post. Why can't it be a competitor for ALL of the cars everyone's talking about? Why does it have to be a competitor for a specific car or cars? There is a huge of variety of buyers represented on this forum alone. And we're a very small portion of the actual number who will be buying this car. I really think this car is going to pull in people from all different sectors, not just the ones looking for a sports car, or a sports sedan, a rotary engine, a two-door convertible, or whatever. It just doesn't fit well into any existing category. Thus, it's creating it's own niche.

If Mazda underpriced the 8 to get volume, that translates to good value for the consumer - big HOORAY from me.

Why on Earth should we bitch about the car being underpriced. It makes it more accessible to a larger audience, which in turn helps everyone. More 8's on the road will translate to better aftermarket support, and better dealer treatment (hopefully). The only downside is possible decreased resale value and the occasional sighting of an 8 that's been disfigured via the "rice" treatment.

All in all, I'm happy that the RX-8 is priced aggressively. To be honest, I was hoping it would be @ $2k less, allowing for a fully loaded, with all options less than $30k. The RX-7 was overpriced, and that was the primary reason sales declined to the point it was pulled from the market. Mazda learned a painful lesson. Hopefully, sales will be strong and remain strong, primarily based on price, content, and performance.

The RX-8's competition is who YOU think it should be. What other cars are you concidering? THOSE are the competition. It could be a price point, appearance, performance or practicality. That is why the RX-8 is such a good choice. It has high marks in many categories.

REMEMEBER: This is a sports car like no other!

Puppy, has it down.

To me it's competition is 4 dr sport sedans. Saab 9-3, BMW 325i or 320i, Audi A4, Mazda 6, Acura TSX.

But the 8 has more power more sports looks. So it has an edge. And it's less expensive than any of those, save the TSX and 6

Originally posted by Puppy1
The RX-8's competition is who YOU think it should be. What other cars are you concidering? THOSE are the competition. It could be a price point, appearance, performance or practicality. That is why the RX-8 is such a good choice. It has high marks in many categories.

REMEMEBER: This is a sports car like no other!

Thank Puppy1, you said what I was trying to say, but you actually made it make sense.

of course, the rx-8 is awesome-ly priced IF the dealers don't get greedy and start jacking up the price. i haven't personally put a deposit down yet: i don't like commitments to a car i haven't even driven yet.

hopefully, no markups, and the price will be so right it hurts.

justin

Elara,
You're right, I did misunderstand your post. The RX-8 is a unique vehicle that really has no comparison/competition. It's actually a breakthrough vehicle. The only competition it has is the other vehicles the buyer is considering when shopping for a vehicle just like Puppy1 said.

Over the past 4-5 months I've been looking for a second vehicle. My choices have varied from a used WRX, Eclipse, A4, RSX, Mini, and others. I initially didn't consider the RX-8 because I thought it would be over 30k base MSRP. I quickly cancelled my A4 order when I found out the pricing on the RX-8.

So, by Mazda "underpricing", "aggressively pricing" the RX-8, they took a commited A4 buyer and made me an RX-8 buyer. This brings us back to my question at the beginning, did Mazda fix the price of this vehicle in such a way to gain marketshare against the competition, whatever it may be. And my twist is, did Mazda underprice it on purpose to do this. I think yes.

Originally posted by saejin
did Mazda fix the price of this vehicle in such a way to gain marketshare against the competition, whatever it may be. And my twist is, did Mazda underprice it on purpose to do this. I think yes.

yes, absolutely.

Unless, like all good marketers you price to create some balance to Supply and Demand. My projection is that pricing will rise
over the next 18 months substantially more than all the
aforementioned competitors.

There is precedence to this. There is need right now to create a buzz factor--a momentum. This Forum is enlargening--you see it daily. I've noticed Honda marketing may have three official revisions upwards in first year for a brand new product.
Watch out all you fence-sitters!

Compare RX8 pricing and G35C pricing. (I'd put 350Z in there, but I can tell you right now the options on the 350Z are way over priced)

RX8 6sp Manual:
$27,200

If you want leather seats:
Add $3900 for GT Package

Add Spare Tire
$395

Add In-Dash CD Changer
$500

Add Cassette Player
$200

Total: 32,235.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

G35C 6sp Manual:
$32,200

Base: include leather seats, spare tire, powered, heated seats, in dash CD and cassette player, xenon, dynamic control, fold down rear seats, fog lights, heated mirrors.

Add Moonroof: $1000

Add Homelink / Autodimm mirrors: $300 dealership installed

Add delivery charger: $545

What it doesn't have: 2 extra doors, Bose stereo. (Trust me, Bose ain't all that great on the G35..... some people rather have the base stereo. Rip off)

Total: $34,045

* I'll tell you this, the base G35C is perhaps the most underpriced sport coupe on the market today. Premium package is almost a rip off considering Bose system is pretty pathetic and most items are already standard. (xenon, power heated seats, fold down rear bench, LED lights, heated mirrors.....) If you are lucky enough to find one, BUY IT! If you really need an NAV system, buy an aftermarket one. No stock NAV system is worth $2k*



$32,235 vs $34,045, that's a $1800 difference between these two cars. So the actual price difference is around $2000 (who needs cassettes anyways) So the pricing of these cars are much closer than what is being presented by other members on this topic. Just wanted to clarify that.

Is the G35C worth $2k more than the RX-8? It's your call. Keep in mind, the G35C cannot carry tall adults in the backseat and only has 2 doors as opposed to four. G35 prides itself in being $7-8k cheaper than a comparatively equipped BMW 330ci. Both cars are in entry luxury class with similar luxury/performance/handling characteristics. The RX8, IMHO is in a different class: Against the lighter and smaller sport sedan/coupes such as the Acura TSX / RSX and maybe the IS300. The RX8 beats the crap out of the TSX and RSX in terms of value and performance. :D

I do hope you guys are all right and Mazda has done us a great favour by pricing the RX8 very competitively.

Having not seen the car in the flesh my concern is that savings have been made that we are not yet aware of ie paint quality & material. I am going to walk away if upon closing the door the window rattles (having been used the Audi quality).

rael.

I've seen, sat in and played with the RX8 in person. Everything appeared to be top notch. Believe me the Rx8 is my underpriced.
Drew

Originally posted by wrxdriver
All the points you guys are making are very true, but your forgetting one thing. The S2000. The S2000 and The Rx8 are directly compareable on so many levels. First there is price, the RX8 is 31,000 with all options but Nav. The S2000 is about 31500(now that they are not going over sticker)..........


You guys in the US are lucky the S2000 is totally overpriced here in Canada as it starts at $48,600! The base RX-8 here starts at $36,795 for the GS and $39,595 for the GT. As you can see it's quite a price difference!

Mazda Canada is pricing is pretty sharp here when you consider that Subaru sells their WRX for about $35,000. Not much cheaper than a base RX-8.

Originally posted by MRX

the S2000 is totally overpriced here in Canada as it starts at $48,600! The base RX-8 here starts at $36,795 for the GS and $39,595 for the GT. As you can see it's quite a price difference!
Subaru sells their WRX for about $35,000. Not much cheaper than a base RX-8.

...actually, in Canada that's more about the RX-8 being even MORE aggresively priced in a car market where demand is considerably lower in the US (when you adjust for price level, and factor out the exchange rate)

our GT model is about the same price as a low-power Base US RX-8... we're actually getting a friggin' steal on the '8.

Originally posted by wakeech


...actually, in Canada that's more about the RX-8 being even MORE aggresively priced in a car market where demand is considerably lower in the US (when you adjust for price level, and factor out the exchange rate)

our GT model is about the same price as a low-power Base US RX-8... we're actually getting a friggin' steal on the '8.

Yeah but the S2000 is still over priced here. I'd say it's $3,000 to $5000 too much for the Canadian market. The sharp pricing for the RX-8 really puts that into focus.

i think s2000 is overpriced nevertheless, here or there. 31k for a tiny car like that (i know, what a car it is!). i really like s2k, but i do think it's way expensive

i think rx-8 is priced JUST RIGHT. 33k fully decked out w/ performance and coolness and gadgets and practicality. 33k isn't pocket change, it's a considerable amount. but considering that nowadays a nice mid-sized sedan (camry, accord, passat, 6) runs b/t 25 and 30k, and decent mainstream suv or minivan up to 36, 37k, the 8 is right in the reasonable middle of that. it's not cheap, but it's not expensive either. and it's likely to be priced similar to whatever decent car you're buying, and it's not that much of a compromise either way...unless you want to tow a boat or a house. so...i probably just repeated what all of you just said :p