And since my car is *not* a pre-order... I won't be receving a free gift. Same goes for everybody else :(

Dear xxx,

Thank you for again contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you once more.

Unfortunately, the gifts will only be offered to those whose dealerships have placed an order for them through the Pre-Order Program. Due to limited availability no other allocation types will receive the gifts.

Hmm..Herc, they're telling everyone else exactly the opposite- might want to talk to your dealer. As long as you have your dealer call them when you take delivery, there may be hope. At least, if RX-8 orders and my dealer are yanking me around, I'm going to be pretty annoyed with them...perhaps they didn't understand what you were asking, and though you ordered after the pre-order dates?

Bastards. :mad:

Pardon my language, but i feel your pain.

I emailed a response, so let's see what we get:

There seems to be some conflicting information on this...

Other people I know are in the same situation as me, and let me restate for clarity...

I ordered a car from Open Road Mazda in Edison NJ on January 8th, which is the *first* day the Pre-Order program became available. I was given an order number later on and found out that my car was not ordered AS a Pre-Order vehicle, but instead as dealer allotment.

Now here's the problem. Some others have my problem, and emailed you as well. They were told that as long as their dealers call Mazda upon delivery, that these pre-order gifts would be made available to them.

Now it is no fault of mine that my dealer did not order my car as a pre-order vehicle. I was not aware of the fact that the car could even BE ordered as dealer allotment.

Thus, I find it only fair that I be able to partake in receiving the same token of appreciation you are showing the customers who are putting their faith in Mazda and the RX-8 before they can even drive it. And mind you, I'm one of the first people in the country that put my money down to buy this car. I think the courtesy should be extended to those customers who ask about whatever little gimmick you may be giving out only for sake of having a keepsake about a car they are about to spend over $30,000 on.

If this cannot be done, I ask that my car become a pre-order. I ordered under that assumption and it is what should have happened. I should not be subject to unfair treatment due to mistakes on the part of my dealer.

Please let me know with definitive information so that I can pass this along to the many other people who are in the same position as me, because their dealer has either not been properly prepared to submit the car to you as a pre-order, or just failed to so. Either way, I expect a response I can take back to the of them that states in black and white what the circumstance will be. The only reason most of us are adamant about this freebie is because it is a keepsake of the car we ordered and will be a constant reminder. The Nissan 350Z preorders received a watch and every time they look at it, they can be reminded they are the owners of a very nice car.

I'd like the same type of keepsake. I just hope that Mazda can come through for the customers that have been keen and intent on getting this car since t was announced two years ago.

Thanks,
xxx

You go, Herc. Keep me in the loop- I'm in the same boat.

i spoke with my dealer about this- he promised to call the Mazda rep. I'll let you know what happens.

Why don't we get a letter together and send it to the chief of Mazda USA? I sent a good letter about my dealer and it went all the way to the top...

We DESERVE those gifts. IMHO if I am not going to get them, the dealer does not deserve my business...

I think sadly, that it's a question more of the lack of training of Mazda dealers than it is a communication problem.

Most dealers are internet-stupid, and thus our orders have been on a large scale, screwed up. Hopefully Mazda takes initiative here though, and gives us our stupid freebie!

Originally posted by Hercules
Hopefully Mazda takes initiative here though, and gives us our stupid freebie!

I think it is more than a freebee... it is a matter of pride at being a first owner, and the fact we are left out for no good reason!

Good job people and I agree I am also disappointed with my experience with my dealer, the lack of knowledge about the car and the way to handle business is disgusting first he ordered me the wrong color and it is locked already second my car(ordered 2-20-03 is not ordered as a pre-order), every time I speak with my salesperson I feel I am the one selling him RX8 he has no clue!!!
I am getting fed up and mybe getting to the point of changing my mind and getting BMW 325ci instead, I feel very disappointed in the service Mazda is supplying me.
the least Mazda can do for us is to get us our gift to make it up for dealing with idiots!! sorry!!

Well folks, the time for dissapointment draws near... it looks like I was right in my initial assumption:

Dear xxx,

Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.

The official word on Pre-Order gifts, today, is that only those whose
dealers have placed orders for them as actual Pre-Order Program orders
will receive gifts. I regret that the dealer did not make it clear to
you that the order was another type of allocation. We can not change
your order type. You may inquire with the dealer about canceling your
order and re-ordering for a later allocation as a pre-order vehicle
order. This will delay the delivery and I would suggest making sure
that the Pre-Order Program has not ended by the time you may choose to
switch your order and cancel your original one. Only the dealership may
do this, as the contract is with them. It is at their discretion also.

Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also
contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.

herc here is what they had to say to me om march 21st:

We have spoken with Dan at Herzog Mieier today. He has advised that an order has been placed for an RX-8 for you. This order has been placed as another type of dealership allocation and Dan has advised that he will continue to be a contact point for you regarding this order. We have assured Dan that, although you are not part of the Pre-Order program, we can issue you the free gift that the participants will receive. Upon delivery of thte vehicle, please arrange for Dan to contact Mazda to request that this gift is sent to you. Please note that ONLY after you take delivery of the vehicle can this be done.

you are in the same boat as me but i can get the gift and you can't? i think it is time for a letter to the president of mazda usa this is getting rediculous!! herc and i were both up waiting for the pre-orser site to go live (he's east coast and i am west coast) and when it did at 1:17 pst i guarantee that herc and i were 2 of the first 10 to get on the site. and this is what we get for our enthusiasm.:mad:

I'm going to send another email when I get home concerning your email...

If you can do it there's no reason why I can't.

Mind if I copy paste what you wrote?

Thanks!

please do. and i will ask from my end with a bit of yours too. they may not answer me as they said before that was the last time they were going to reply to me on that subject. no matter, i love going over peoples heads.

Here's MNAO's word today.. Nuthin..

We have not heard any official confirmation that there will be a gift associated with the 2004 Mazda RX-8 pre-orders. Please be assured that if we will be offering a gift it will be in the vehicle when it arrives at the dealership.

I hope this information is useful. Please let me know if I can be of
any further assistance.

herear the emails back and forth


hello,
On March 21st in reply to my concern over not getting the pre-order gift
because of a mistake made by my car dealer you said they following:
"We have spoken with Dan at Herzog Meier today. He has advised that an
order has been placed for an RX-8 for you. This order has been placed
as another type of dealership allocation and Dan has advised that he
will continue to be a contact point for you regarding this order. We
have assured Dan that, although you are not part of the Pre-Order
program, we can issue you the free gift that the participants will
receive. Upon delivery of the vehicle, please arrange for Dan to
contact Mazda to request that this gift is sent to you. Please note
that ONLY after you take delivery of the vehicle can this be done.
Now my friend Shayaan who lives in New Jersey emailed you about the same
problem. Your reply to him is as follows:
Dear Shayaan,
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.
The official word on Pre-Order gifts, today, is that only those whose
dealers have placed orders for them as actual Pre-Order Program orders
will receive gifts. I regret that the dealer did not make it clear to
you that the order was another type of allocation.
So does that mean that I also won't get the gift, contrary to what I was
told on March 21st? If not, why can I get it and not Shayaan when he and
I have the identical problem, which is the fault of the dealer and not
ours. Please clear this up for me.
Thank You,
Charlie Dulin


the response and my reply back:


Hi Charlie,

Please understand we can only give information specific to each
customer. Thus, if Shayaan has a question, he must e-mail us directly.



Ashley,
Shayaan did in fact email you. My question developed from the response to his email. He got a different answer from you than i did to the same question. That is what has caused the confusion. Please clear it up. Again, my question is this: If in fact i can get the pre-order gift after i have taken deleviry and Shayaan's dealer made the same mistake mine did than why can he not get the gift also.
thank you

Charlie Dulin

I believe this all goes back to the methods of ordering cars that were apparently given to dealers. I believe what they intended was that EVERY car would be a preorder by a customer, for that customer, albeit through a dealer, when that customer 'built' their car through the Mazda pre-orde website. I think their first goof was not training every single dealer HOW to do this BEFORE Jan 8th. You guys beat me by about 5 hours in creating your order. I think the 2nd goof came in the guise of something like "dang - all the preorders are in and some dealers haven't filled their allocations - let us allow them to order their OWN units as they see fit" - although that may have been an option for the individual dealers to activate from day 1 (1/8 that is). The other oversight was that some dealers are net / email savvy and others are just plain ignorant and / or lazy.
But ... the part that amazes me is that there continues to be a diversity of answers to our [similar] questions coming out of rx8orders "e" dept. The whole thing about gifts is a great example. Most of the responses I've read about this in the past make reference to the fact that some gifts will be coming to the preorder buyers although they won't commit to what those gifts are. Now they say there is no actual confirmation of ANY gift? What a turnabout!

At any rate, I would that we'd all be patient and wait to see what comes of it. My only [ableit a very small one] concern is that we don't exasperate the folks - Ashley, William and others - at rx8orders to the point that Mazda decides to never offer such a preorder program again. Of course, they could decide the answers ahead of the next time so they all are on the same page.

Or... we could let Hercules be 'our' main point of contact concerning this concern and let him get to the bottom of it and then get back to us.

Does the (new) President of Mazda USA really care about those of us who are preordering their new 'brand icon'? If he does...
then perhaps he should be informed of the erratic information coming out of rx8orders and that they were negligent in serving their customers by not training and equipping their dealer network for this program.

As some may know from following my previous posts - I'm have a small watch fetish -to the point that I've almost bought one of the 10th AE Miata watches just to have the watch - and I'd LOVE to have the German mechanical watch being offered to the German preorders - to the point if it were economical I'd fly there to buy one and fly it back here - so I certainly hope that's in our future.
But mostly - I want my car...

Originally posted by rx8daniel
I believe what they intended was that EVERY car would be a preorder by a customer, for that customer, albeit through a dealer, when that customer 'built' their car through the Mazda pre-orde website. I think their first goof was not training every single dealer HOW to do this BEFORE Jan 8th.
Or... we could let Hercules be 'our' main point of contact concerning this concern and let him get to the bottom of it and then get back to us....

Does the (new) President of Mazda USA really care about those of us who are preordering their new 'brand icon'? If he does...
then perhaps he should be informed of the erratic information coming out of rx8orders and that they were negligent in serving their customers by not training and equipping their dealer network for this program.



that first point i quoted is exactly it. for some reason not every dealer got trained on what they were to do. and as i mentioned before, mazda did not seem to have a back up plan if things went wrong. by the time we figured out something was wrong it was too late apparently to fix it. if Shayaan would like to be point man that would be fine with me, but they don't seem to want to give a blanket answer that covers everybody which is why i think your other point has merit, perhaps it's time to go further up the chain. i asked someone who has contacts there to attempt to do just that and get answers for the whole group but mazda seems to be being unresponsive to that avenue at this time. so maybe going straight to the top is the best way.

you know it's not the gift in particular and we all know we are getting our cars but mazda is the one who said "this is the way the pre-order is going to work". we did our part but it seems real difficult to get them to do theirs

I'd be happy to be the point man, as this is important to me and time is winding down very quickly.

I'm sending another email in a minute... I'll quote it here when I send it.

Here it is, VERY long (i got pissed off hehe):

Hi William,

I thank you for your information but it seems conflicting information is still arising all from the folks replying to this email address (rx8orders@mazdausa.com). I am writing as a moderator of the biggest (and only) RX-8 specific site, http://rx8club.com, on behalf of the many members who also share my problem and are extremely upset about this treatment.

So what I ask is this. I would like to be put into contact with a person in a supervisory position. The amount of distaste I have received from emailing to this address and receiving all types of conflicting reports does not do me any good, especially when I and others have in waiting an investment that ranges in value from $26,000-$33000 in the form of the RX-8 we all pre-ordered.

I would like to be in contact with somebody that has the power to make decisions and get some results. I realize that this email is intended mainly for informational purposes, but since it seems very evident that many of the decisions on the questions we are asking have not yet been made, it seems only appropriate that my (and others, as I'm representing many other people that have preordered this car) concerns be aired and reviewed by the people who will be able to give us ALL a definitive answer.

But I will state again our situation, and the reasons we have for being disgruntled:

Mazda dealers and managers were not properly trained to deal with the Mazda RX-8 Pre Order program. As a consequence, the orders that dealers received through the pre-order website (which went live on January 8th), were inappropriately handled.

The people whose cars were ordered through the pre-order program have no complaints. It is the people whose cars were ordered AS DEALER ALLOCATION that are having complaints. I and many others are in this position.

When our orders were processed, all of us were given confirmation numbers. We were not told that these cars were not ordered as dealer allocation. This again refers to the fact that the dealers across the country were inappropriately trained to deal with this pre-order before January 8th and continue to be untrained in these areas.

When the first round of status emails went out to pre-order customers; we did not receive one. This was our indication that something was wrong. Emails were sent to rx8orders@mazdausa.com and all such emails were replied to with the information that our car was ordered as dealer allocation, and not as an official pre-order as was intended by all of us. However we were reassured that there was really no difference in this situation, and as a result it was no consequence.

Now we come to the present; pre-order customers have been invited to take part in special VIP days for Mazda's Rev-it-Up events, and are also going to get a gift for pre-ordering the car. The former is a situation that's on its own as I've been told (and you can correct me if I'm mistaken) that I can speak to the dealer to get on the VIP list for the Rev-It-Up event. The latter however, deals with an area where we all feel wronged. For some background information... I had my preorder placed within TWO HOURS of the pre-order site going live. Others have similar times in which they pre-ordered the car within only a few hours of the site going live -- a testament to their dedication and love for a car that hadn't been properly reviewed, test driven by us, and much was still unknown about.

Now these same customers who took the time and effort to pre-order quickly, give a down payment to their local dealer, and put their faith into a company whose history has been 'iffy' at best, with a car that we feel will break the mold and be revolutionary... cannot be treated with the same respect we pay the company in giving our full faith and reverence to -- there is something gravely wrong.

Most of us don't care what the gift IS -- it's merely a reminder of what our wait was about. We put our faith in the RX-8 before anybody knew what to expect, and as a sign of their appreciation Mazda will give these pre-order customers a gift. I fail to see how poorly trained staff, inputting orders incorrectly should somehow shaft the consumers that put their faith in Mazda, and yet because of a small hiccup in order processing will no longer be in the position of being the happy recipients of a gift that merely expresses a 'thank you' on the part of Mazda.

As I said, I'm not alone in my problem -- there are many, many more people in my position. And I would appreciate and *insist* that this email instead of being given a cursory glance by the rx8orders@mazdausa.com staffers, to be given to a person in a position that can make a decision to rectify the problem that was not at our end.

If problems are failed to be rectified many people have non-refundable deposits, and thus while Mazda won't feel pain from them backing out of buying the car, you can be assured that a second thought will certainly be paid when purchasing a car the second time around. Cars get better all the time, and now that Mazda is turning over a new leaf in the great products it's releasing, it seems only appropriate to do the same on the part of customer service and satisfaction. My only hope is that my letter goes to the appropriate people and it get addressed.

For any further contact I'd prefer somebody to call me, as I will make myself available to address this issue. I'm a big fan of Mazda and we've got two in the household, with the RX-8 being the third. I've never been victim of the horrible stories I get from others about Mazda's customer service -- don't let it start at the best car I've ever bought from them.

I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx from 8-11pm EST.

Thanks for your attention in the matter.

xxx

Great letter! That one should make its way up the ladder...

thanks herc! excellent letter! :)

Originally posted by DonG35Miata
Great letter! That one should make its way up the ladder... We'll see...

Companies are historically insensitive to complaints so if Mazda can do us a good turn.. it's definately a good sign.

Herc.. you said the following in your email...

"pre-order customers have been invited to take part in special VIP days for Mazda's Rev-it-Up events"

I ordered in the first allocation. I have received both the first and second email confirmation from Mazda; however, I was never invited to a VIP event for Mazda's Rev-it-Up. Does anyone know how this was done? Did they email or call etc.?

This whole preorder program is about as clear as mud!! Just give me the damn car!!!!!!!

Originally posted by RotorBoy
Herc.. you said the following in your email...

"pre-order customers have been invited to take part in special VIP days for Mazda's Rev-it-Up events"

I ordered in the first allocation. I have received both the first and second email confirmation from Mazda; however, I was never invited to a VIP event for Mazda's Rev-it-Up. Does anyone know how this was done? Did they email or call etc.?

This whole preorder program is about as clear as mud!! Just give me the damn car!!!!!!! Check your dealer they should have signed ya up.

Well said Herc. - I'm in the same boat.

Herc,

Definately let us know what you hear.

Sounds like I'm in the same predicament as you. I thought I was a pre-order, but found out my car is one of the dealer's allocation. All I get back from the staff of rxorders is "We have no record of your pre-order, check if the dealer completed the pre-order process correctly". Obviously, he did not.

I would be highly disappointed if it turned out we didn't get anything because of our dealer's inaptitude in this matter. This is totally unfair to us that put down deposits and stood behind Mazda in supporting this car.

I'll definately join you in a group letter to Mazda if it comes to that.

Wish us all good luck, people.

Wish us all good luck, people

May good fortune be yours!

I'm introducing my dealer to this thread. Maybe its not too late for me to get converted to pre-order and get the gift, too.

Also, since it appears because of production delays, pre-orders are getting their cars first, before dealer allocation. Does that mean that those who thought were preorders and are not will have to wait even longer?

:mad:

Herc,
It's been a week now -- have you not heard any response from Mazda yet?

Originally posted by rxeightr
Herc,
It's been a week now -- have you not heard any response from Mazda yet? Nada... I actually emailed them again last night with the same email. Hopefully they get it this time.

I got my reply! But sadly it doesn't contain any information about other people getting to fix their problems. Please take a read:

Hello xxx,

Thank you for your continued patience while we worked to review your
concerns. I have spoken with our department manager, who has advised
information that I will relay to you.

First, let me emphasize that we certainly appreciate your decision to
order the RX-8 and consider you to be a very valuable customer. Your
involvement with the RX-8 forum that you mentioned is testimony to your
enthusiasm for this vehicle. We are both honored and encouraged by your
passion that we also share for the RX-8.

I regretted to read that the ordering process, as handled thus far, was
not what you expected. As you have been advised, your order was placed
for an RX-8, but was not listed as an order Through the Pre-Order
Program. I am sorry that this was not clear to you nor the dealer at
the time that the order was placed.

Our Manager and myself, are in contact with the District Sales Manager
overseeing Open Road Mazda and with Jimmy Estvez, Sales Manager, of
Open Road Mazda. We are researching the possibility of modifying your
order for inclusion as an RX-8 Pre-Order Program order (without
affecting the delivery date nor the specifications of your order).

I personally spoke with Jimmy at Open Road tonight. He has assured me
that an order has been placed specifically for you, that your name is
associated with this order, that he is currently in contact with his
District Sales Manager and that he would be very receptive to modifying
the type of order that has been placed if possible. This way, you may
receive all of the features of the Pre-Order Program.

I will personally contact you with the developments on Monday, and
assure you that our manager is aware of your concern and is also
diligently working to try to ensure your inclusion in every benefit of
the RX-8 Pre-Order Program and will be prepared to respond to your
concerns as we receive information on Monday. This program was designed
with the primary goal of offering enthusiasts, like you, the first
chance to own the RX-8 and to be included in an exciting,exclusive
program...we assure that this remains the focus of our commitment to
you, Mr. xxx.


Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also
contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.

Please take a moment of your time to give us your opinion about our
e-mail service. Click the link below to complete a brief, online
survey.

http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?5TYD85TYCGRDSLWVFE7RJ6R9

Regards,

William Zdan
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business

Okay, so I get this letter from my dealer, its actually a print out from a website:

https://portal.mazdausa.com/prod2/servlet/VehReq

That's the link on the bottom of the print out.

So, pretty much, here's what the contents include, line by line:


=============================================
Customer: Lee
Request Status - Date ON ORDER - 12/31/49
Order Reference Number: 200304001778
VIN: N/A
Vehicle Type: INV
Estimated/Actual Production Date: APR Wk/1 (EST)
ETA Date: TBD

Request ID: 2003014200400025
Year: 2004
Carline: RX-8
EmissionType: CA
Model: RX8 6P - RX-8 6 Speed Manual - 6M
Option Group: 1GT - Grand Touring PKG M/T
NV1 - Navigation System
Color Combination: 27A - Velocity Red MC/F4-Black/Red
Accessories:
x - 2AP - Appearance package
_ - CAS - Casette Player
x - CGN - Cargo Net
_ - MND - Moonroof Wind defector
x - STR - Spare Tire Kit
x - 2RP - Rotary Accent Package
x - CDC - In-dash 6CD changer
_ - MGB - Front/Rear Mud Guard
x - RSW - Rear Wing
_ - None


=============================================

What do you guys think of this, I already emailed him stating the issue of delivery date and if he can actually fill in the VIN and ETA date. But, he hasn't emailed me back.

Did anyone get this from their dealer?


alex

What do you guys think of this, I already emailed him stating the issue of delivery date and if he can actually fill in the VIN and ETA date

I visited my dealer yesterday, and received the same information, including build date during the 1st week of April. He could not give me the VIN # either.

It does not appear our orders are far enough along yet.

Sure would be nice to know if in fact Japan has indeed started production for the States.

that is (most of) the exact information that is on my dealer's inventory report I got from them back in February. My order also has April/Wk 1. I think we are looking at that being more like May/Wk 3 now. From lack of discussion at the Asia forum it appears nobody is getting any new information on delays in production.
Except for this last spec of information, from the Asian forum:
"I pre-ordered Dec 8. My car comes off the line in Hiroshima on Apr 24. But then, as Yuhiki points out above, there is the week long Golden Week holiday in Japan. So I'm not going to get the car until mid-May also."
Given that the Japanese cars that were supposed to be delivered by now aren't getting done until later this month it's fairly safe to say our Wk 1/April cars can't possibly start until at least Wk 1/May.

Originally posted by rxeightr


I visited my dealer yesterday, He could not give me the VIN # either.
According to my dealer, the VIN# is assigned when the actual assembly of the car begins. So, at the same time a VIN# appears, the production date should also update to an "actual" date. In other words, your car has yet to be born.

I just got this response from RX8orders concerning preorder conversions:

Hello Peter,

Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.

At this point the dealership will need to make the change from an
allocation to a pre-order. We unfortunately cannot make any changes
here, as the orders are produced and delivered per the way the order
was entered. A dealer may change an allocation to a pre-order by
submitting your first and last name and e-mail address next to the
vehicle order. This has to be done by May 16th, this date could
possibly change so please have your dealership complete this as soon as
possible. Additionally, if your order is submitted as a pre-sale order
you will be eligible if a gift is available.

I hope this provides some further clarification. Please understand
that each Mazda dealership is independently owned and operated. Please
let me know if there is anything further I can assist you with.

Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also
contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.

Please take a moment of your time to give us your opinion about our
e-mail service. Click the link below to complete a brief, online
survey.

http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?5TYD85TYCGRDSLWVFE7RJ6R9

Regards,

Staci Brock
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business


I emailed my dealer to have him try to convert it. We'll see.

[i] A dealer may change an allocation to a pre-order by
submitting your first and last name and e-mail address next to the
vehicle order. This has to be done by May 16th, this date could
possibly change so please have your dealership complete this as soon as
possible. Additionally, if your order is submitted as a pre-sale order
you will be eligible if a gift is available. [/B]


There you go. This should be printed out & given to your dealership, and have them take care of this while you are there.

Make it happen!

Originally posted by rxeightr



There you go. This should be printed out & given to your dealership, and have them take care of this while you are there.

Make it happen!

i did that yesterday and my guy at the dealer and the owner of the dealer said they would try it! there is hope yet!!