14.2 quarter for the Road and Track people.Forget FI to make it faster.Easier to drive yes,but after 6200 rpm threshold 3psi boost.I said it once and ill say it again...this engine will not like boost.5k or so price point available by xmas.

Are you saying a supercharger isn't a form of forced induction? $5,000 for 3 psi? I could get an air hose and spray 6 into the intake! Sheesh. Well, at least they're trying. You can't entirely say the RENESIS is un-boostable. I believe Phoenix's Power's RX-8 is proof of that.

this in the latest R&T?

If they are only getting 3 psi of boost there is one of only a couple of things going on. The first is that their supercharger is too small and can't keep up with the airflow requirements of the engine. This has nothing to do with whether or not the Renesis will like boost. Second, they have only designed the system to give a low end boost. This too has nothing to do with whether or not the engine will like boost. Third, they could have tuning issues with the ecu that is prohibiting them from making more power at this time. Again this has nothing to do with whether or not the engine will like boost. It would be an ecu issue.

The Renesis is no different than any other engine on the entire planet from the standpoint that it is no more or less friendly to forced induction. It will like forced induction. We just haven't seen anyone do it properly yet. Be patient. I predict we'll see the first 300 hp RX-8 within the next 6 months and the first 350 hp within the next year. The more everyone learns about these cars, the closer we get to a good power upgrade.

yea the wait is killing me. :(

Didnt explain myself i guess.I maybe thought most out there would have understood.6 to 7 psi until 6200 rpms.We know what happens then right?After the 6200 rpm is hit they have to back it down to 3 psi.Anyone that thinks they can run any kind of substantual boost at high revs really dont understand this engine or do not care about reliablilty.Compression or porting must be changed for boost,its that simple.

Also, that 14.2 tells me absolutely nothing about how much power that car is making. What kind of trap speeds did they see in the 1/4. What were the cars 60' times. For all we know its making decent power but not getting out of the hole properly. We need more info before we can judge this car.

Didnt explain myself i guess.I maybe thought most out there would have understood.6 to 7 psi until 6200 rpms.We know what happens then right?After the 6200 rpm is hit they have to back it down to 3 psi.Anyone that thinks they can run any kind of substantual boost at high revs really dont understand this engine or do not care about reliablilty.Compression or porting must be changed for boost,its that simple.

Good thing you clarified that WTF. 3 psi would've been down right nutty. :rolleyes:

there's a distinct possibilty the drivetrain just cant take a launch under boost like that. upgraded clutch, gears, slicks whatever...we might have us a low 13's car. thats sti territory and the sti has 300/300 at the crank and AWD.

i dont know the details of the system (someone could be so nice as to tell me) nor much about SC'ers but that makes the most since, especially if its built for power down low.

Anyone that thinks they can run any kind of substantual boost at high revs really dont understand this engine or do not care about reliablilty.Compression or porting must be changed for boost,its that simple.

Yeah whatever dude. You just keep on thinking that. I guess I have no idea what a rotary really likes. Since I obviously don't understand it, please fill me in with EVERY possible detail as to exactly what the Renesis can't take any "substantial" boost above 6200 rpm. Why is that the magic number? :rolleyes:

Well, I wouldn't flame him for making that Super Street-type statement. :rolleyes:

Hes probably thinking about positive displacement superchargers where generally they are maxed out at about 7500 since they are on a 2:1 ratio thats 15,000RPM. If you look at positive displacement supercharger dynos on other small displacement motors you will see the torque beginning to significantly taper off around 6000RPM. So he he isn't completely wrong.

Guys cmon.RG i respect your knowledge of the rotary no questions there,but you for from know everything.I even believe it was you that made a post about 4 port being eaier to turbo then 6port.@6200 rpms when the last ports open, the engine does not like boost.Ive heard this from more then one person now and thats why most have even scrapped FI projects.The side ports are causing problems with FI period.Thats why i stated that new porting and or shaving rotors to drop comp needs to be done.As this engine sits now a SC or mild turbo to help bottom end is about all your going to see from any reputable company.


Ive had 2 7's and just bought my 3rd.Ive given up any type of FI project for awhile anyway.RG on another note i got a question.Spooling on a gt35 compared to a t-78.Is there a big rpm difference between these 2 for boost?Ive been reading and there is alot of mixed feeliing about both just looking for more opinions.

honestly, i still fail to see how something that increases airflow makes the motor 'not like boost'. all the ports are side ports, its just one(two) more opening up.

But that has nothign to do with the motor liking or not liking anything. That's simply the way they designed those blowers to work, and in those applications the purpose was to give a bump to the low end. If you wanted it to have more of an effect on the top end, I think, at least with that type of blower, you'd need to gear it such that it would end up making less ofa difference on the low end. Maybe that's exactly why the Pettit unit behaves like that. Everyone has a different idea about how they want it to work, I wouldn't assume those design decisions were necessarily mandated by limitations of the motor.

jds

Hes probably thinking about positive displacement superchargers where generally they are maxed out at about 7500 since they are on a 2:1 ratio thats 15,000RPM. If you look at positive displacement supercharger dynos on other small displacement motors you will see the torque beginning to significantly taper off around 6000RPM. So he he isn't completely wrong.

RG on another note, I (have) a question. Spooling on a GT35 compared to a T-78. Is there a big rpm difference between these two for boost? I've been reading and there is a lot of mixed feelings about both.

I think your answer for this question lies here. :)

www.rx7club.com

www.turbobygarrett.com

http://www.mhi.co.jp/gsh/eindex.htm

Many months ago I was considering a supercharger and almost sent my 8 to the West coast to fab one up. Due to a communication breakdown I decided to hold off. In the interim I did some calculations and they indicated that each pound of FI boost was worth 16 h.p.+/-. With most early projects limited to 5 pounds I decided to go for a 50 h.p. nitrous kit. Most of you are following that story. My current set up at 55 h.p. mimics the Petit set up in terms of output and is working quite well. In addition, I have a bunch of other mods. I have even used the 75 h.p. shot a time or two. The point is that the 8's drivetrain can handle that which I have thrown at it so far. The only reason I don't use the 75 shot is because of detonation at mid to high rpm's. SSR mentioned a while back that they were seeing some intake manifold ballooning at 5 pound levels. I wonder if the manifold issue is why Petit limited their high rpm boost to 3 pounds. I would like to do a side-by-side with nitrous versus FI just like in some NHRA classes.

Charles

There is a fairly large difference between the response of the T78 and the GT35R. The GT35R used by A-Spec on the RX-7s reaches full boost usually around 700 RPM's sooner than a T78 and has better reponse.

There is a fairly large difference between the response of the T78 and the GT35R. The GT35R used by A-Spec on the RX-7s reaches full boost usually around 700 RPM's sooner than a T78 and has better reponse.

That gos along with most of what ive read.Where the info seems to fall off is top end differences.Will the t-78 deliver alot more hp up top?Seems to me the 35 is a no brainer unless your looking for 500 plus hp.

I think your answer for this question lies here. :)

www.rx7club.com

www.turbobygarrett.com

http://www.mhi.co.jp/gsh/eindex.htm

Yep think ive been down that road with 2k post on rx7 forums.Turbogarret does not even offer a rx7 single set up on that site.Nopistons.com also has good 7 forums.

honestly, i still fail to see how something that increases airflow makes the motor 'not like boost'. all the ports are side ports, its just one(two) more opening up.


Compression is the main issue.Ill try to spruce up my terminoligy from now on.I will call it "blowing up" instead of "not liking it" from now on.

But that has nothign to do with the motor liking or not liking anything. That's simply the way they designed those blowers to work, and in those applications the purpose was to give a bump to the low end. If you wanted it to have more of an effect on the top end, I think, at least with that type of blower, you'd need to gear it such that it would end up making less ofa difference on the low end. Maybe that's exactly why the Pettit unit behaves like that. Everyone has a different idea about how they want it to work, I wouldn't assume those design decisions were necessarily mandated by limitations of the motor.

jds

I would think anyone with the r&d time they are putting to these will try to market max performance.

Off topic: WTF, I believe the TRUST T-78 is a larger turbo than the GT35. Nevertheless, making power is based on how you tune your engine. Hell, you could even go with a GT3037S, make just as much power, and it will spool faster than the former.

Don't forget that some racers use a larger turbo and them make up for the lack of low-end response and spool up time with a small nitrous boost. Perhaps a hybrid set up will be the way to go. Do I sound like a nitrous salesperson? I hope not.

Charles

compression yes. but 10:1 is 10:1. be it on 4 ports or 6. yeah i know, more rpm more heat etc...but if compression is the only problem, lets get some machined rotors in there. the 50hp that some of these kits are claiming isnt even worth blowing the motor over. 150? maybe, but not 50.

Some of the best tuners upgrade from 9:0 to 9:7 compression rotors for faster spool up and more low end when running big turbos, i.e. T88 and GT42R. Compression is part of the equation but you also have a lot of other factors like ECU control, Tuning, etc. The thing most bolt on kits from companies have to accomplish is a decent power gain without major upgrades in order to keep the price down, i.e. sticking to stock fuel system, how much power the transmission and rear end can handle, what the ecu can handle etc. The compression of the renesis is not the single factor preventing cheap kits from being developed. Nitrous and a large turbo is not all that reasonable for a street driven car because you wont be using the juice all the time.

The GT35R turbo is a good deal smaller than a Mitsubishi/Greddy T78. The GT35R has yet to make more than 490RWHP on a 13B, but is rated up to 600HP. The T78 flows a bit more air but is not too much beyond the GT35R as far as HP per RPM. Of course tuning, porting, engine condition, and other performance enhancements have a pretty good effect on all this...

Can't you use lower compression rotors from the 13B-REW or the 13BT?

I can't give exact numbers, but I do know from taking to Cam at Pettit that their car max HP came at 8000 rpm. Also a small correction, their car was tested by Motortrend not R&T. Car should be back to Lake Park, FL this week and I hope to drive it. They are preparing 4 or 5 additional units for testing and mine should be on the car by the end of the month. Their car did have a lighter flywheel than the MS unit, but a stock trany.

Can't you use lower compression rotors from the 13B-REW or the 13BT?

No. The Renesis was designed to use the rotors it came with. What I mean is the difference in seals... aprex, side seals and corner seals are redesigned and now we even have a new seal.. the blow-by. In addition the rotors used in the Renesis are lighter than those used in the 13B-REW and actually have some differences in shape (kinda hard to describe, but if you've seen side-by-side pics you know what I mean). All of this... particularly the rotor weight contributes to the Renesis' 9k redline.

WTF, I am not initimately familiar with Pettit's setup, but of course the problem that EVERYONE is running into when F/I'ing this car is the A/F/S management. When the tertiary porst are open, 6 psi is going to be moving an incredible amount of air. Not a problem if you can give it the fuel to match--but nobody has yet cracked the ECU, or developed a standalone replacement. There's only so far you can get with piggybacks on this car, and 6 psi boot with S-DAIS fully activated is not one of them. Besides, isn't the lack of low-end torque the biggest problem?

Also, the 14.2 time is pretty worthless without knowing the atmospheric factors, tires, other mods, 60' times, trap speeds, etc. Jay Goldfarb notes that an ultralight flywheel was installed; unless I am mistaken an ultralight flywheel's lack of inertia would make a supercharged rotary incredibly difficult to launch well--it would be a pretty wicked case of "bog or boil". That's why the 60' times and such would be really important to know.

Peace
policy

That's odd, because I heard elsewhere about putting RENESIS rotors into into a 13BT. Does anyone know if the 13B-MSP's rotors are compatible with previous engines, despite a different design?

on another note i got a question.Spooling on a gt35 compared to a t-78.Is there a big rpm difference between these 2 for boost?Ive been reading and there is alot of mixed feeliing about both just looking for more opinions.

for a guy who claims to know better than a whole lot of people on something fairly complex, asking a non-sensical question like "which turbo will spool faster", not giving any specifics at all like a/r ratio (which will make the biggest difference anyways) or bearing options, or your engine setup or anything (as said by Icemastr) doesn't really reflect well on your opinion.

stick to the stuff that you know, m'kay?

WTF, I am not initimately familiar with Pettit's setup, but of course the problem that EVERYONE is running into when F/I'ing this car is the A/F/S management. When the tertiary porst are open, 6 psi is going to be moving an incredible amount of air. Not a problem if you can give it the fuel to match--but nobody has yet cracked the ECU, or developed a standalone replacement. There's only so far you can get with piggybacks on this car, and 6 psi boot with S-DAIS fully activated is not one of them. Besides, isn't the lack of low-end torque the biggest problem?

you don't really need a standalone, piggybacks would be sufficient for light tuning on something like a supercharger (supposing you could accurately meter the air being pushed into the motor, something still of a topic of discussion).

the "lack" of "low end torque" (by which you really mean low rpm horsepower) doesn't matter all that much, even dragging. a properly slipped clutch, or grippier tyres (along with a stronger drivetrain *cough*tranny*cough*) and a really hard launch would make up for it. just think about the all-motor p-port draggers that race, they have far less bottom end horses than the 13BMSP does.

Can't you use lower compression rotors from the 13B-REW or the 13BT?

no reason to. if you're gonna open up the engine anyway, you could just have the combustion chamber recess machined out a little (increase in volume doesn't have to be huge, 72.5 (9:1 ratio on 653cc chamber) - 65.3 (10:1 ratio, duh) = 7.2cc's), and you're set. you wouldn't have to screw with the side seal clearances, or worry about having the corner seals falling into the side ports ('cause they would, the apex seals are so much shorter with the new rotors), etc etc.

That's odd, because I heard elsewhere about putting RENESIS rotors into into a 13BT. Does anyone know if the 13B-MSP's rotors are compatible with previous engines, despite a different design?

yeah, the rotors will work backwards, giving you a nice bit of room to take the intake ports out toward the rotor housing for an early opening streetport, and the smaller seals will seal better (less mass), but the side seals could be fiddled with to get the clearances down to older spec (tighter sealing, 'cause you dont' have to worry about the oil scraper rings and whatever with the perhipheral exhaust port).

the number of teeth on the gear, the size in all dimensions, and all that stuff is the same. they work in older motors.

why would someone want fairly high compression ratio rotors in a turbo motor they're building from scratch?? i have to assume they're modifying the rotors as i pointd out in my above post...

you don't really need a standalone, piggybacks would be sufficient for light tuning on something like a supercharger (supposing you could accurately meter the air being pushed into the motor, something still of a topic of discussion).

the "lack" of "low end torque" (by which you really mean low rpm horsepower) doesn't matter all that much, even dragging. a properly slipped clutch, or grippier tyres (along with a stronger drivetrain *cough*tranny*cough*) and a really hard launch would make up for it. just think about the all-motor p-port draggers that race, they have far less bottom end horses than the 13BMSP does.

Well, piggybacks SHOULD be adequate, but from what I've read about the CanZoomer development, if the RX-8's ECU sees too much variance from what it expects, it will pull it back towards (theoretical) stoich. That's why he had to fiddle with the timing to get a smooth output curve. That's the only reason I said piggybacks don't seem to be adequate for full-on boost applicaitons.

As far as everything else goes, that's exactly why I said I want to know how the car was equipped, and what the trap speed and the split times were.

And yes, by "low-end torque" I really meant "low-prm horsepower". Mea culpa.

Peace
policy

for a guy who claims to know better than a whole lot of people on something fairly complex, asking a non-sensical question like "which turbo will spool faster", not giving any specifics at all like a/r ratio (which will make the biggest difference anyways) or bearing options, or your engine setup or anything (as said by Icemastr) doesn't really reflect well on your opinion.

Like i said in a previous post i guess i need to watch what i say and how i say it.I think most who know turbos know the 35 will spool faster.I was really looking for opinions on the give and take of each.I have to really keep an eye out for the quote police.When did i claim to "know better then a whole lot of people on something fairly complex".Im not sure what you even trying to acomplish with this sarcastic shit.

WTF no Turbo
I do not know where you got the 3 PSI after 6K rpm from. As usual, people are spouting info not correct which if nothing else will confuse the majority of people interested or not. I have been speaking to 1 of the 3 people at Pettit that have been fully involved in their supercharger progaram. According to him (will remain nameless until he wants to be called) the boost never falls below 5 psi. In addition, the 1st prototype was tested by the magazine and they did not push the test. The 1/4 should will almost surely fall below 14.

WTF no Turbo
I do not know where you got the 3 PSI after 6K rpm from. As usual, people are spouting info not correct which if nothing else will confuse the majority of people interested or not. I have been speaking to 1 of the 3 people at Pettit that have been fully involved in their supercharger progaram. According to him (will remain nameless until he wants to be called) the boost never falls below 5 psi. In addition, the 1st prototype was tested by the magazine and they did not push the test. The 1/4 should will almost surely fall below 14.
Cam gave me the info.I cant remember the head sales guys name there,but ive been talking to his "mad scientist"brother to.Didnt push the test?Hmm guess thats why the grenaded a tranny.

wow, flaming a mod, that's brilliant. fyi, i didn't put the cape in the pic, or the rotor symbol, or make a total jackass of myself in a thread where i was talking out of my ass about something i obviously didn't know the first thing about. just 'cause a guy at Pettit said something doesn't mean its the absolute truth.

and i'm a very fit 220, thanks for asking.

so you photoshoped in the cape and rotor all by yourself to gay it up more?? :D wow thats great, and too even if I get blocked so what. i can still check out the site or get a new user name :eek:



and i'm a very fit 220, thanks for asking.

thats 220 canadian so whats that like a buck fifty-five american??

so you photoshoped in the cape and rotor all by yourself to gay it up more?? wow thats great, and too even if I get blocked so what. i can still check out the site or get a new user name

thats 220 canadian so whats that like a buck fifty-five american??

Ure a f%&#ing clown. Theres nothing more pathetic then attempting to diss someone "virtually". Usually clowns who do that are overcompensating for their lack of a voice in reality.

Keep Dreaming

-Alex

Back on topic, sort of: Besides this SC project, does Pettit currently offer anything else for the -8? That is, besides the Protek fuel lubricant, and the pretty sweet red metal rotor shaped oil cap that I bought from them.

er...how about that petit sc car? er..um..prretty fast huh? :) (hehehe)

Is this article coming out in the September Motor Trend, does anybody know?

Does anybody have a website for Pettit Racing with info on the SCed 8?

Leave the thread.. kill ALL the off topic posts. This can still be saved.

Are there any pics of this setup or is it still too hush hush? (or has that already been discussed but I forgot because of juvenile off topic posts?)

I tried to email them about this and never got a reply... That was when they were going to California Speedway to test it so I hope they werent pissed I knew.....

dont know...

Is it out in the September release of Motor Trend? Does anyone know?

They have a website, but nothing is on it yet. I was with Tyler of Pettit today and they are still doing some additional development work. They are building a new intake to test. Their car is still out west with the company that will be making their ecu for further developement and refinement. I can tell you that the did get about 220 hp at the rear wheel with the sc and intercooler. He couldn't remember the torge, but it was a big improvement. I suggest you contact Tyler for additional information. They hope to have the unit for sale starting in (a guess on my part from our conversation) around mid Sept.
He can be reached at 561-844-2258 Also latest issue of Motortrend doesn't have anything on the car. That issue went to bed before car was retested.

Their website is pretty sweet if you happen to be looking to mod an RX-7, tho...

www.pettitracing.com

and their rotor shaped oil filler caps really are pretty cool...and fairly inexpensive if I recall...come in different colors and everything...

That TKT Banzai FD is the awesomest. :D

Sorry 13, you've lost the spot. Kari is now the best looking.

Back on point. Remember the engine doesn't know where "boost" starts or stops. The engine thinks in absolute pressure. Nobody told it how you print your gauge face. It only thinks it drove below sea level vs up into the mountains.

The reason the roots blowers show a fall off point is that they get so much heat when you force them to go beyond say 5 psi. Below that they are good for a street engine. The rotary is very limited on how much heat it can take. I don't know enough about why, but it is.

A point in the RPM range can be targeted as a design point knowing the curves of both pumps. Meaning the engine and blower. But it is adjustable by the end user. That is the drawback of the roots blower, it uses so much power to drive. Why do you think dragsters break 100 mm wide steel belted blower belts. All the while melting the pistons. Belts last two runs, pistons just four seconds.

That's my $0.02

Richard

Do you think the rotary engine's heat capacity could be due to it's high shaft speed?

Damn! Can't disagree with you though...

jds

Sorry 13, you've lost the spot. Kari is now the best looking.

...

Richard

13, all is not lost. I didn't say anything about loyalty. The woman who is as loyal as a good dog hasn't been born yet. And her mother is dead.

As to the heat, rotating shafts don't pose a heat problem. I think you might look at the seal area. How about this Rotarygod? You out there.

I'm a freshman here but I do know that the rotary needs more air and fuel for a given HP compared to piston engines. About a third extra to be more specific.
That is why it gets poor MPG.

Is that due to the shorter leverage the combustion chamber can put on the e shaft compared to a piston engine?

Richard,

What is your idea on the seal area? I am kind of confused about that.

I can assure you that if Candy and Cam built this kit and tuned it with only 3 psi that they had a good reason for it. Earlier this year my wife and I stopped by their shop and saw her RX-8 all torn apart. These guys are rotary gods.

They have been working on this project for several months now and if anyone knows the mechanics of a rotary and what it can and can't do it's Candy. I'm sure that once they get the kinks worked out they will be pushing more boost.

At least they haven't been jacking everyone off promising a bunch of B/S with their kit like Sunflower Mazda who can't even get their car to run. :rolleyes:

They took the car and actually ran it as hard as they could.

Hats off to Pettit Racing!

Here are a few photos of their shop and customer's vehicles

Showoff, I agree with you 100%. I am at their shop a couple times a week. The real facts are that the first version to be offered will be at about 5 psi without an intercooler. They aren't happy with the location of the version in their test car. Once that unit is in production, they will turn their attention to a higher output unit. Intercooled (air to air) with about 7 or 8 psi. As I stated before, I will keep all posted as things develope. They will have their first stage in my car by the end of the month for further testing and track testing. I will than get the intercooler once they come up with the proper design. This will be for testing.

After that they will turn their attention to a ported and polished motor that is sitting in their shop now to see what can be done with that.

These guys are real professionals doing what professionals do best. They want the unit right before release. Not like the piggyback computer being sold from Canada that is going fits to many.

Oh yea Pettit is top notch no doubt there.Everyone i spoke to there was very knowledgeable and anxious to answer all questions i asked.Im sure with some fine tuning this will get better,but i only put up what i was told and the trolls come out in full force.

On another note Harold @Acosto is almost done there turbo.I was told 12 psi.I was also told he made 211 on dyno NA.Things are looking up i guess.

I'm sure that's correct, but everyone (well, some folks anyway) appear to be assuming that reason is limitations of the Renesis. What if its a design choice with the supercharger, as I mentioned earlier in the thread? (Now, I haven't seen anywhere where anyone has stated the type of supercharger they're using...if that has been stated, and I'm wrong...let me know. I'm just theorizing here!) There are a lot of SC kits that use a positive displacement-type blower to boost the low end...where pretty much everyone says the Renesis needs to most help...and if its geared to do that, my understanding is that its going to start putting in a lot of heat as the revs build, and it leaves its band of optimum efficiency. So, maybe to reduce heat from an inefficient blower they've limited its upper-RPM performance?

Now, come to think of it...I don't think I've ever heard of a positive diplacement blower limiting boost over a certain range. Is that possible? Hmmmm...OK, so I may have just shot down my own theory. Somebody that knows this stuff better please chime in!

jds

I can assure you that if Candy and Cam built this kit and tuned it with only 3 psi that they had a good reason for it. Earlier this year my wife and I stopped by their shop and saw her RX-8 all torn apart. These guys are rotary gods.

They have been working on this project for several months now and if anyone knows the mechanics of a rotary and what it can and can't do it's Candy. I'm sure that once they get the kinks worked out they will be pushing more boost.

At least they haven't been jacking everyone off promising a bunch of B/S with their kit like Sunflower Mazda who can't even get their car to run. :rolleyes:

They took the car and actually ran it as hard as they could.

Hats off to Pettit Racing!

Here are a few photos of their shop and customer's vehicles

Things are looking up with 211 dyno? I dont think so... and at 12 psi thats horendous is it not?

Speed Force was using 5psi and was hoping for 275 at the wheels....

on top of that, tuning with the e-manage is seeing at least 210.... Why would 211 be good?

Pettit is going to use a roots type blower. With an intercooler they had 220 HP to the rear wheels. Without the intercooler they were just above 200. This was with borla exhaust and factory cat. With the hi temp cat and mid pipe like I have on my car, I would expect better numbers. Similar to what Acosta is claiming, but without the heat of a turbo. I would be concerned with all the plastic now used that a turbo would melt all kinds of goodies and create havic.

Things are looking up with 211 dyno? I dont think so... and at 12 psi thats horendous is it not?

Speed Force was using 5psi and was hoping for 275 at the wheels....

on top of that, tuning with the e-manage is seeing at least 210.... Why would 211 be good?

He said that 211 was a normally aspirated figure.. That's how I interpreted it.

He said 211 NA.

Oh yeah.. got it.. thankx..

Boys... cool it down. We are trying to enjoy a discussion about superchargers. If you guys can't keep it under control, the mods will for you.Exactly.

Bam_Bam39, Butthead, WTF_no_turbo, etc - all of you calm down. Thread cleaned of all the childish attacks and BS. Let's keep on topic or I'll have to close the thread.

And it was just getting good....lol jk
Thanks



On another note Acosta told me 300 whp is the target for the 12 psi system.

Are you talking about Acosta Racing's supercharger kit, if it exists, or Pettit Racing's? I wonder if they are using a piggyback computer, or a stand-alone.

Pettit is using a piggyback computer. There car is still on the west coast with the company supplying the cpu for fine tuning.

On another note Acosta told me 300 whp is the target for the 12 psi system.300 whp has been achieved with 6 Lbs of boost. Don't know why they'd be shooting for that same figure with 12 Lbs of boost. Something isn't right about that.

Well he actually said 300 to 350ish.Thats a 120 hp boost with 6psi.Who has done that?

Sunflower and SSR, both.

Sunflower and SSR, both.

so you have seen dyno results of some kind???? or is this just what you have been told by the companies?

also, this is getting really interesting the closer all these companies get to there release dates. cant wait for more power! :D

? (Now, I haven't seen anywhere where anyone has stated the type of supercharger they're using...if that has been stated, and I'm wrong...let me know. I'm just theorizing here!)

I thought I made it clear that my project was going to use a twin-screw? No, not a "roots" style unit, as in an Eaton . I just haven't mentioned the brand yet. But it has been ordered for the development, and you can get none better.

I just can't wait for it to arrive.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=36376

Cheers,
Hymee.

Sorry Hymee, I wasn't clear in my statement...I was referring specifically to the Pettit supercharger project.

jds

I thought I made it clear that my project was going to use a twin-screw? No, not a "roots" style unit, as in an Eaton . I just haven't mentioned the brand yet. But it has been ordered for the development, and you can get none better.

I just can't wait for it to arrive.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=36376

Cheers,
Hymee.

No worries mate. I understand now :) Sorry for the mis-interpretation.

Cheers,
Hymee.

so you have seen dyno results of some kind???? or is this just what you have been told by the companies?

also, this is getting really interesting the closer all these companies get to there release dates. cant wait for more power! :D
Beat me to it.300 whp at 6 psi hmm....

Man.. I am sure that at least one of these projects will be done by April 15th... I seem to love that date more and more now.. :) (Tax Day)

Guys:
One thing folks are over looking here is the drive-line. The 6-spd tranny is fairly marginal on the 8, and FI will definitely bring this to the fore-front. In talking to several tuners, this has been one of their biggest challenges when upgrading to FI. Just wanted to add this to the mix. I'm sure like some posted previously, that making the power will not be an issue in the months to come, but keeping the tranny alive will be.

Just a little more food for thought!

-Bern

Does anybody have an update?

Ok just to give some clarity on this subject incase noone else has yet. When they did all of testing and such for that article the car wasnt even tuned yet, hence the 3psi. Final kit will run 7 psi I beleive.

So does anybody know when the final kit will be released?

I am not totally sure but I think its availible now.

I think someone needs to call.

I have sent them countless emails and none of them have been returned.

Godzilla, If it is available now do you have a link or website or phone number to where I can check it out?

Hey all.. I have some info :) gotta love that...

I got word that a company is finishing up the tuning for the car and will be done within 3 weeks. After that there will be a 1 to 2 month beta testing period for those people located in Florida.

When they go to production for the supercharger kit they will offer 5 kits with a wide range of options to give the consumer lots of flexability when choosing their product...

this question is for rotarygod
what do you think about the memory stainless steel headers put together with the greddy cat back exhaust system? worth the money? Are the headers even a good design? And would they still work with a turbo/supercharger application?

Memory headers? If a header design works on a regular engine, there is no reason to believe that it won't work on a supercharged engine. Exhaust systems do have to be adjusted a little for supercharged cars but if it is a benefit on a non supercharged car, it wills till work. I don't know which headers you are referring to. I have only seen one set of heasers thusfar which look like they have some sort of potential but even then it is very small. The real key is that no currently available headers on the market are worth their level of gain. A header will not work with a turbo unless the turbo is mounted after the header. The benefit from it would still be debatable.

this is the website i found it on http://www.memoryfab.com/

back to pettit.... I got this info from unichip. Was going to invest my money into this but they said that they scrapped their project because the unichip only produced 8 additional hp at the top end.. not worth the money..

http://www.unichip.us

Memory's design doesn't look any different than all of the other no power gain designs. I tell a lie. The others get a gain at the extreme top of the powerband of about 4 hp or so. Nothing usable.

Any updates on the PETTIT S/C 8?

Pettit will be at SevenStock with the car... as of yesterday! Come out and check it out for yourselves.

-Bern

Talked to Pettit today. Some info - one kit will be available without intercooler and can expect around 200 HP at wheels. Another kit will be available with intercooler which should produce around 220 HP at wheels. The expected prices keep going up. I also asked about a rumor I heard about a blown engine and tranny with prototypes. Told absolutely no blown engine and tranny was damaged, not from supercharger but by driving techniqe. I believe.
As a side note - both Pettit and Acosta racing has told me straight - do not get CanZoomer piggy back - too many problems. For what it is worth.

So what are they using for engine management?

jds

So what are they using for engine management?

jds
whatever it is, i still don't want their setup.. 220 at the wheels is nothing at all w/the other groups talking 385 at the crank (300+ at the wheels)..

whatever it is, i still don't want their setup.. 220 at the wheels is nothing at all w/the other groups talking 385 at the crank (300+ at the wheels)..

It all depends with the pricing and the hassle. 220 @ the wheels is nothing to sneeze at, but I guess it also depends how are those 220 produced. If it is mainly peak HP...I won't even look at it; however, if the curve is nice and smooth... :D

You people in Florida better hurry if you want a prototype like I heard... I would be all freaking over that :) but it's hard to if your in so cali.... Rrrrrr

I think you can pretty much come damn close to getting those type of numbers keeping the car N/A. For example SR motorsports gt4 kit is pretty close to that, I'm sure for a lot less money.

I would like to see someone other than the vendor back that up with a dyno. I think part of the reason no one has done that is that nobody really believes those numbers are remotely achievable with those parts...otherwise everbody would have already purchased the kit.

jds

I think you can pretty much come damn close to getting those type of numbers keeping the car N/A. For example SR motorsports gt4 kit is pretty close to that, I'm sure for a lot less money.

Even if nobody has backed up the vendor with a dyno, which I understand fully what your are talking about, but that doesn't mean I am going to drop 5 to 6 grand on a S/C kit that only puts me at 220whp, and that is why I said pretty close to that figure and not right on that figure because I have not seen anybody back it up............

Yeah, I certainly agree with that. The bang for the buck on some of these initial kits doesn't look too good. I guess though like everything else, the first version of something won't end up being either the best or the cheapest. Somebody has to be the pioneer though.

jds

Even if nobody has backed up the vendor with a dyno, which I understand fully what your are talking about, but that doesn't mean I am going to drop 5 to 6 grand on a S/C kit that only puts me at 220whp, and that is why I said pretty close to that figure and not right on that figure because I have not seen anybody back it up............

Why would they say 220 at the wheels with an intercooloer yet also say expect 50 more hp and 50 more torque? Even if the car was dyno'd at 190 that would be 240. In order to get 220 at the wheels they would be saying it originally dyno'd at 170.. kind of low to me... I really like the sound of 200 torque though :) All of these figures were coming in at around 4,000 rpm....

but anyway.. I called them up and they said to expect their website to be updated within the next few weeks. They are working on the final touches for their RX8 supercharger page.

I know i'll be looking for it.

my personal opinion after having discussions about the unit at sevenstock is that its undersized. id personally wait on getting this setup until after hymee gets his done.

Actually the PROTOYTPE package that Pettit brought to SevenStock, was quite impressive... Cam let me take test drive and beyond the un-regular idle stall and SC whine, the car felt normal. That is until you stepped on the loud pedal... The SC really pumps up the mid-range and the car definitely picks up MUCH better than stock. With almost instant boost, you find yourself short shifting (at least for the RX-8) at around 7500-8000 or so. The SC car feels, and I suspect it is, "much" more torquey and stout. This will be a very nice package when final details are worked out. Well worth a look IMHO... this thing would kill around Laguna Seca.. is all I kept thinking!

-Bern

The car sure looked fast... I wouldn't have minded a ride in it at all.

I called them up a few days ago and the power was still out for them. Pettit is based in Florida and they got hit hard...

They told me not to expect their website to be updated with product info on the RX8 system for a while.... at least a few weeks... hopefully not much more than that...

Rrrrrrr

13, all is not lost. I didn't say anything about loyalty. The woman who is as loyal as a good dog hasn't been born yet. And her mother is dead.
.
I've nothing to say to the actual topic, except best... quote... ever....

The day has finally come....

http://www.pettitracing.com/flash.htm

It looks different from what we saw at Seven Stock.. Looks like they have been doing some updates since I last saw it...

strut bar still sems to be missing

That's just the nonintercooled version. The blower is rotated 180 degrees the opposite way too. I'd like to see under the engine cover at the intake manifold.

They tested one for the latest issue of MT....just got it a few days ago.

They report that they are still having problems tuning the ECU...so still not getting what they want out of it........more to come on that ;)

But they say they had 2 versions working. A low and high boost. The high boost came with an intercooler. I don't remember the boost PSI's...but will update later. (I think like 5psi and 8psi)

I will try and scan the page and post for everyone tomaorw :)


***Edit***

Well crap...someone already posted the review

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=40803

They dogged them... I bet Pettit is mad about that.. They can only blame themselves though for producing a car for them to review that isnt the final production model working perfectly.

For $ 5,000 a 4 tenths of a second in the quater mile and a zero to 60 reduction of about 3 tenths is shit return on your investment.

For $ 5,000 a 4 tenths of a second in the quater mile and a zero to 60 reduction of about 3 tenths is shit return on your investment.

the comparisons doesn't show much as far a quarter mile times. First, did the petitt rx8 run a 14.5 prior to the s/c? Or is that the "magazine" tested time? I've only seen a handful get that time and only one that went below. Mostly I've seen very high 14's and low 15's. So how many tenths of a second shaved doesn't mean anything if its the latter there is no base comparison. Wait til the final product then judge.

If you spent $5000 for a supercharger for a car that is already supposed to run mid to high 14 second quarter miles and you are still in the 14's, you got ripped off. For 5K I'd better be seeing 12's.

agreed, well from the article seems like they have a lot of kinks to work out. If they correct the mentioned problems would that equate to better e/t ?

With 50 hp more, they should see about a full second off of the quarter mile. As I always say, tuning is everything.

Much more updates to their site are now available..

http://www.pettitracing.com/rx8/index.htm

I know they are both twin-screw designs, but are there any subtle differences between Autorotor and Whipple?

They are both owned by the same parent company, Opcon. Whipple is what the "Lysholm" brand is sold as in the USA. Have a look on Kenne Bell's website for some good comparisons of the Autorotor and Lysholm/Whipple.

Basically, the Whipple is a cast body, the Autorotor is "billet". The Autorotor uses larger bearings, and the ratio of the female and male rotors is slightly different. Also there is some differences in the drive gears.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Thanks for the tip Hymee. :)

So, I suppose Autorotor's twin-screw design is an evolution of the Lysholm type?

I think it is more of a quality / cost of production issue. The Autorotor is higher quality, therefore more expensive to produce, as far as I understand.

Cheers,
Hymee.

what's the self contained lubrication thing?

I belive that the Autorotor is an extrusion not "billet."

So with the autorotor you dont have to drill into the oil pan. Is that a big deal?

You do not run engine oil through it. It has it's own internal oil system. It is entirely self contained within the supercharger body. It is a sealed system. You only need to check it about every 10K miles or so.

I didn't think this was answered in here.. But Pettit has modified thier desing to enable the use of the stock trut bar.

Grave digger.. Anyone have updates?

Pettit is still playing around with their ECU setup. They finally had to go to an additional fuel injector in the intake manifold to solve a lean condition above 6000 rpm. They have been testing at only 3 psi to make sure things work before boosting pressure. I haven't spoken to them in a week, but that's where they. The next 30 days should show be interesting at their shop. They are hoping to get my SCer on my car in the next 2 weeks so that we can test at a NASA drivers school at Moroso on the 23rd of January. I will keep all posted if this happens.

Jay Goldfarb

Wow.. The very person who is going to get it installed.. welcome :)

Thankx for your input.

This is why I accepted my 8 for what it is and got the LGT. :)

Also, keep in mind. The Compression ratio of the car while static is alot different when you add boost.

It is???

HA! I knew they didn't have it tuned properly when the Motortrend article came out! Rumor has it that they told MT that and MT agreed to print the "still tuning" bit, then renigged. I'd be PISSED if I were Pettit.

Pettit makes top quality stuff folks... this is one to watch!

Cool, thanks for the update......

updates?

I don't care for superchargers, and one an a rotary just sounds strange to me.... I am open to it if they can make it work however.

Also, for those looking for a clutch, ATS makes a Carbon Clutch setup, couple that with either the Orthodox Lightened Flywheel or the mazdaspeed unit and that should take care of the tranny for the most part.