Ohh a deal has come up that I can get my hands on a E46 M3, for a very very very good price, which means of course trading in the RX8.

Its a 2002, black, got all the factory extras, like 19 wheels, etc... and its even got decently low mileage on it. BUT the only problem is it is an SMG model. Now I've always been an avid manual driver, I pretty much refuse to own an auto, but SMG isn't really auto and M3's are just damn amazing cars. Anyone here had any experiance with the SMG?

I thikn Im pretty keen, I had a drive a few weekends ago, and its a pretty wicked car, ,but I only had 10 mins in it. I have arranged to take it home for the weekend coming but yeah any thoughts from the RX8 crowd? What would you guys do?

Keep in mind that the price is just a steal! I would almost be stupid not to get it, but its just he fact that its SMG thats getting in the way.

unless you are a die hard rotary fan get the m3

That's odd. shigginsrx8 had a similar story :confused:.

Ohh a deal has come up that I can get my hands on a E46 M3, for a very very very good price, which means of course trading in the RX8.

Its a 2002, black, got all the factory extras, like 19 wheels, etc... and its even got decently low mileage on it. BUT the only problem is it is an SMG model. Now I've always been an avid manual driver, I pretty much refuse to own an auto, but SMG isn't really auto and M3's are just damn amazing cars. Anyone here had any experiance with the SMG?

I thikn Im pretty keen, I had a drive a few weekends ago, and its a pretty wicked car, ,but I only had 10 mins in it. I have arranged to take it home for the weekend coming but yeah any thoughts from the RX8 crowd? What would you guys do?

Keep in mind that the price is just a steal! I would almost be stupid not to get it, but its just he fact that its SMG thats getting in the way.

In my honest opinion!!!

DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!

That is if you dont mind paying a lot more in Insurance.

Just my two cents.

Everett

I had an extensive test drive in an E46 M3 w/ the SMG. So let me put it this way, you should be all over that M3. I'm also a diehard stick guy, but the SMG is the most fun you can have driving a car. The downshifts are amazing. I've driven and owned a bunch of sportscars and the SMG is the best performance feature I've ever driven.

BTW, if you decide against it, let me know. I'll be all over it, if it's really that good of a deal.

SMGay.....the e46 message boards even bash the smg owners,saying its not a real manual.What do i think?the M3 is a hell of a car.Id take one with any tranny.BUT,i personally think the smg will take away a little bit of fun that you have with your manual 8.You'll have less of a control type feeling over the car,but i guess the power,sound,and comfort of the car make up for it.You also gotta remember the new 3 series is dropping in 2005,the new M3 will debut 2006.So if you plan on keeping the car longer than that the value of the car is going to drop a lot since the new model will be out.

As much as I love my car, if I could have afforded an m3, I wouldn't be owning an rx8. That car is just so much more then an rx8, but also with a steep price. Id' say even the smg is worth it, but I can understand the hesttation. If it was manual, you know this would be a no brainer. I'd say go for it, because that's just simply a better car. Good luck!!

I drove my friend's M3 in Hong Kong a few days ago. I tested it on some twisties for about an hour.... went through half a tank.... but it was mad fun. Here is what I think about the M3, hope this might help you out....


SMG
The SMGII gearbox on the new M3 is a bomb. Yes, it would be stupid if miss out on it. I drove my friends E46 SMGII, its a rocket. There are twelve modes for the SMG II, 6 for automatic 6 for semi automatic. It adjust the sensitivity of the throttle, the speed of switching gears, and response from the steering. Its truely amazing.

The throttle blimp it does on every upshift is seamless, unless you are Michael Schmi, its almost impossble for you to beat it. The downshift takes 0.08 seconds to comeplete. That is 1 times faster than a Modena 360 and 10 times faster (more accurate) than me...


Driving pleasure and handling
However, in terms of driving pleasure, I really think its objective. To be truthful, I think the RX8 drives better in the corners. The turn in is better, the braking feel is better, and the communication between the driver and the car is much better in the RX8. Some of you might go, yeah right you punk you have no idea what you are talking about. Well, this is why think this.



The M3 tends to have a slight push under when enter a share corner. The RX8 has it a hint of under as well but its much more prominent in the M3. When push under happens, usually, you just let go on the gas and the car will slowly stop understeering (severe of the understeer). Well, the M3 is much slower in response to that. Smoothness is everything in driving fast and you really have to abide by that rule if you want to drive fast in the car.

Power
Holy mother... that thing is FAST. I punched the launch button and dialed in the maximun sensitivity on the SMGII, the car rocketed off the line like there was no tomorrow. One car length of car rubber was left on the ground, signifying a perfect launch, it took just about 5 seconds for it to reach 60. What more do you expect? I can power slide out of any corner, in almost any gear... the engine is always in its sweet spot...


Well... the verdict...
freaking A, get the M3 today!!!!

Yeah I have never owned an auto car, and my old man has autos (gammy knee) and when I drive them they are just so much less fun!
I can't wait to take it out this weekend and see how it goes.

Yeah Redlinin_8 has the point, at the end of the day an M3 is an M3, ya know? Thats whats going through my mind. I will drive it and see I guess.....

Yeah I heard the new 3 series is coming out soon, but this deal is amazing, and I think that a M3 will still hold its value pretty well in a few years time. Over here in NZ, the E36 M3's are still worth a packet if you can get your hands on one. Its pretty hard to find a two year old M3 with only I think 12,000 km's on it too!

More opinions please, I been talking to my friends, but it helps when people you are talking to actually have experience with the car im thinking of giving up! :D

With all of the advantages of the M3, I would stay with the 8 because it is a much better looking car. ;)

My co-worker has an '04 M3 and it is just fucking insane. I lovethe Rx8 but I willdefinitely admit that the M3 is an allaround better vehicle --and yes maybe even in cornering too. It also has a redline almost as high as the Rx8 does. Amazinglyfun car to drive and mandoes that shit growl. It shoves youinto your seat --especially if you sit in the passenger side-- on WOT w/all that torque and horsepower that it has. Im sure our carwould be capable of the sameif only it had more power down low. Butthe M3 is also 20 grand more so whatthe hell else would you expect?

He always bitches though that thegas mileage is lousy just likeon our Rx8s but Im not surprised about that considering the way he drives his car. The onlything I thinkmy Rx8 has over his M3 is that my exterior is better looking and it turnsmore heads. We bothagree on that butwhenever I tell himthat he says to me looks onlytake you so far.

Yea the thing I get most from strangers is that "that car is only $30,000??? no..." The RX-8 is just more rare and head-turning than the M3, which only car enthusiasts can pick out from a normal 3. That being said I would definitely go with the 3...my cousin has one and it's unbelievable. but the 8 is just an all around bargain...and a great lookin one at that

Unless you're racing, don't get lured in by raw power. I have an auto (stupid! stupid! stupid!) '02 Z28 that has around 400rwhp. It's a freaking rocket and is a blast to drive but still, there are times when I miss my little 5spd 150hp Integra. Now, I understand that the SMG and an auto are not the same thing at all. Still, it's the fun of slamming the clutch, dropping two gears and popping it out again just to snap me back, hear the wheels spin as I floor the gas that I miss. It's not about actually driving fast, it's about having fun while driving. (at least for me...) I have driven other semi-auto's, granted not all SMG's and none nearly as powerful as an M3, but I felt that the expierience was just not there for me. SMG's may offer the response and control necessary to perform on par with (or beyond) a manual, but it's just not the same.

Sure you could take the bus and get there faster, but on a nice day, wouldn't you sometimes rather walk?

That long test drive should tell you better what to do. Good luck, and happy motoring.

Yeah that is definatly one thing that the RX8 is in my mind a better looking car. Not to say the M3 dosn't have its own charm.

I do agree with TheColonel that having fun is more than going fast sometimes (and sometimes they are the same thing!) but its not just the fact that the M3, has more power than the RX8 but its a bit of a total package, if you ask me, the interior is damn nice too!

Also a little understeer in the car can be fixed up pretty smartly, if you don't mind fiddling with such an expensive car that is.......

Cheers for the replies guys, anyone else wanna add an opinion?

WOW, i should have posted my thread on this board, lots of responses.
here is the link to my thread on this same subject, it was helpful

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=33887

I decided to get the M3. :)
and I happen to love the SMG. To each his own.

good luck in your choice, you should do as I did, and drive the cars back to back.

All I know is, after taking my 8 out today for an hour driving around town, and all the stares the chicks give me in it... who can ask for anything more?

Oh so you got the M3? good on ya!
How do you find the SMG? Is it a good drive? Whats it like in traffic? I have heard that its not that smooth sometimes, any thoughts on it?

About the whole looks thing...i think the M stock looks good enough...but if ur an animal like my cousin....than you get on a whole other level......

Me no like BMW's... Keep the RX-8;)

About the whole looks thing...i think the M stock looks good enough...but if ur an animal like my cousin....than you get on a whole other level......

dam dat ride is sweet, thats gonna break some necks man. I drive an rx8 all day the stares don't compare to the ones you would get in a M3 its gets attention alright, but you better hope you can break that bread, cause you got to back that up. Nothing worse than picking up a date in a hot lil bmw then driving her home and having to tell her to be quiet because your parents are sleeping.

btw those devil eyes are so swwweet :drool

not really understanding why you can't tell us the price. but my vote is for the m3 which is obviously a much better car in basically every way.

The 2002 + M3s are great cars. I hope it just isnt one of the hundreds of M3s to have their engines blow up. Check out the M3 website and do a search, you will see exactly what I mean.

well, a neon can do better. to suggest a lamborghini or ferrari is anywhere near the next level of straightline performance above an rx8 is delusional. the rx8 is a pretty good value though.
not really understanding why you can't tell us the price. but my vote is for the m3 which is obviously a much better car in basically every way.
:confused:

why did you paste my response from another thread?

if it's really a steal, then why not go for it and then if it doesn't work out or if you don't like the smg, sell it and get another 8

personally i'm not that crazy about m3's and would always prefer to own the rx-8. call me crazy. they're nice and fast and all, but they're too expensive and too much of a show-off-my-money car. but sounds like you can get an amazing deal so why not take advantage of it? might make some off money off it to spend on your 8

Ohh a deal has come up that I can get my hands on a E46 M3, for a very very very good price, which means of course trading in the RX8.

Its a 2002, black, got all the factory extras, like 19 wheels, etc... and its even got decently low mileage on it. BUT the only problem is it is an SMG model. Now I've always been an avid manual driver, I pretty much refuse to own an auto, but SMG isn't really auto and M3's are just damn amazing cars. Anyone here had any experiance with the SMG?

I thikn Im pretty keen, I had a drive a few weekends ago, and its a pretty wicked car, ,but I only had 10 mins in it. I have arranged to take it home for the weekend coming but yeah any thoughts from the RX8 crowd? What would you guys do?

Keep in mind that the price is just a steal! I would almost be stupid not to get it, but its just he fact that its SMG thats getting in the way.

I would be very tempted for the BMW with the following additional conditions:
1. I get the original warranty until it expires, at which time, if I haven't paid for the car, I would trade or get rid of it.
2. Insurance cost will be in the same ballpark as the RX8 ($80~$100 p/month)

About the SMG, I don't know how the M3s responds, but the MR2's is pretty neat. And given that it is an M3...I wouldn't mind. May I ask, what's a steal?

I had a bmw before the 8 . Two different types of cars.

take into consideration:
INSURANCE
SERVICE
ALWAYS LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER WHEN YOU PARK YOUR CAR
INSURANCE ..... OHH I ALREADY SAID THAT ...LOL

M3's are really really cool... but I don't know about dropping 85-90Gs on the road for it..... rather have a 545

Get the M3 dawg. My brother just bought one and I drive it more than my 8, can you believe that shit? 333 horse power ain't no joke...

Interesting. I have an 02 M3, and while I like it, next to the RX-8 it feels like driving with oven mitts on. It's certainly fast, and compared to an RX-8 with stock shock absorbers it is a bit better damped over washboard roads, but the RX-8 handles a whole hell of a lot better.

It's down to what you want, I guess. Do you like fast in a straight line? M3 is the way to go. Do you like fast through the corners? Seriously, the M3 can't touch the RX-8.

Yeah when it comes to the insurance costs it will obviously be more with the M3, but not too bad, the biggest difference is in the excess should something happen to it. My policy is the excess is 1% of the insured value so yeah it will be a lot more, but only if something happens to it.

Ha looking over my shoulder where I park it? And you guys don't do this with your RX8's!! Haaa at least its not as bad as my last car, I couldn't leave it anywhere, it was too modified...

Hmm, I was doing some research last night on the blown engine thing with the M3s, I will have to check if it was produced in that rough time period that they seem to be having big problems with.

The deal is amazing because I am getting it though a relative. Basically my well off uncle is buying my aunt a new vehicle. Shes got the M3, got it from new, all factory specced up, drive it to work everyday thats it, done 10,000(ish)km, in two years! Well now hes decided its time for her to upgrade to a CLK 55AMG and they got the M3 to sell. Dealership is only gonna give them about $90,000 for it, and they decided for that money they might as well keep it in the family if someone wants it. I talked to them should be able to rangle it for about $80,000 being thier favourite nephew :D. Remember this is NZ dollars, I think you would be talking about $40-$45K in american money. really its just insanly good. (you can sell them privatly for over $100 over here but they arn't the kind of people to be bothered with that kinda thing)

As for the handling I will have to see when I take it for a drive this weekend. From what I remember it is definatly a heavier feeling car than the RX8, but from reviews etc... it sounds like it should be just as good through the windy bits as an RX8? I have never seen any direct comparisions, I guess the cars are too different.
Although in an australian mag the M3 won performance car of the year when it came out, and the RX8 came 8th in its respective year. M3 CSL came 2nd, in the same year as the RX8, beaten out by the gallardro. Remember that this test is quite heavily weighted by price. 2002 a Nissan S15 silvia won!
The RX8 let down according to them was the engine, they reckon if it had say a turbo 4 205kW heap more torque in the same form factor, same price it woulda won.

Yeah when it comes to the insurance costs it will obviously be more with the M3, but not too bad, the biggest difference is in the excess should something happen to it. My policy is the excess is 1% of the insured value so yeah it will be a lot more, but only if something happens to it.

Ha looking over my shoulder where I park it? And you guys don't do this with your RX8's!! Haaa at least its not as bad as my last car, I couldn't leave it anywhere, it was too modified...

Hmm, I was doing some research last night on the blown engine thing with the M3s, I will have to check if it was produced in that rough time period that they seem to be having big problems with.

The deal is amazing because I am getting it though a relative. Basically my well off uncle is buying my aunt a new vehicle. Shes got the M3, got it from new, all factory specced up, drive it to work everyday thats it, done 10,000(ish)km, in two years! Well now hes decided its time for her to upgrade to a CLK 55AMG and they got the M3 to sell. Dealership is only gonna give them about $90,000 for it, and they decided for that money they might as well keep it in the family if someone wants it. I talked to them should be able to rangle it for about $80,000 being thier favourite nephew :D. Remember this is NZ dollars, I think you would be talking about $40-$45K in american money. really its just insanly good. (you can sell them privatly for over $100 over here but they arn't the kind of people to be bothered with that kinda thing)

As for the handling I will have to see when I take it for a drive this weekend. From what I remember it is definatly a heavier feeling car than the RX8, but from reviews etc... it sounds like it should be just as good through the windy bits as an RX8? I have never seen any direct comparisions, I guess the cars are too different.
Although in an australian mag the M3 won performance car of the year when it came out, and the RX8 came 8th in its respective year. M3 CSL came 2nd, in the same year as the RX8, beaten out by the gallardro. Remember that this test is quite heavily weighted by price. 2002 a Nissan S15 silvia won!
The RX8 let down according to them was the engine, they reckon if it had say a turbo 4 205kW heap more torque in the same form factor, same price it woulda won.

The M3 feels big and heavy. It's handling limits through steady state cornerning are probably just as good as the RX-8, but in transitions (from left to right and back) the M3 feels ponderous. The RX-8 is easier to place.

The difference in power is remarkable. The RX-8 engine has power delivery that sneaks up on you, whereas the M3 just smacks you across the face. And it is damn fast.

Personally, the SMG would be a deal breaker. I won't buy a car with it. IMHO, it's a gimmick that offers no advantages on the street, and is substantially less fun to use than a normal tranny. Others, however, swear by it, so it's really a matter of personal preference.

Any one who bashes SMG hasn't driven one... especially BMWs SMG2.
I don't know if you noticed but x28 said... I punched the launch button and dialed in the maximun sensitivity on the SMGII That's right... launch button. Press the button, floor it, the computer will keep the clutch engaged and modulate the throttle until it hits 5k, and then dump the clutch and let the throttle go. Too awesome for words.

I've seriously considered trading in my RX-8 and my 02 325i for a new M3, as it would be an almost even exchange, but three things keep me from doing it... My wife, the 325i actually gets decent gas milage, and my wife.

You'd be insane not to go for it.

---Andrew

Any one who bashes SMG hasn't driven one... especially BMWs SMG2.
I don't know if you noticed but x28 said... I punched the launch button and dialed in the maximun sensitivity on the SMGII That's right... launch button. Press the button, floor it, the computer will keep the clutch engaged and modulate the throttle until it hits 5k, and then dump the clutch and let the throttle go. Too awesome for words.

I've seriously considered trading in my RX-8 and my 02 325i for a new M3, as it would be an almost even exchange, but three things keep me from doing it... My wife, the 325i actually gets decent gas milage, and my wife.

You'd be insane not to go for it.

---Andrew


I've driven one. Actually, I've driven two different ones. On the track, it's a useful feature. On the street, it's only useful insofar as it prevents you from having to use the clutch pedal in traffic. On the autocross course, it presents no particular advantage that I can see.

It costs a lot, does nothing that interesting, and makes driving less fun. Yeah, that's a real advantage.

I've driven one. Actually, I've driven two different ones. On the track, it's a useful feature. On the street, it's only useful insofar as it prevents you from having to use the clutch pedal in traffic. On the autocross course, it presents no particular advantage that I can see.

It costs a lot, does nothing that interesting, and makes driving less fun. Yeah, that's a real advantage.


It may make driving less fun for you, but there are tons of people who find it makes driving even more fun and interesting. It's a personal preference, and not everyone will like it.. Just as there are people who do not like the rx8. I wouldn't mind trying it out to see for myself. You get what you pay for, so if you buy am m3, you get a better car. It's just for some people they don't think they are getting a better enough car for thaqt kind of money.

Sweet car. If the price is right go for it. Personally I wouldn't trade the 8 for anything, but to each his own.

As far as speed and overall performance??? Well, there's a reason I haven't sold my 3rd gen. RX-7. The 8 is a nice daily driver - not as ballsy as the M3, obviously. But, I have yet to come across a car (especially an M3) that could hang with the 7. It goes fast in a straight line AND around the twisties.

Those M3 guys sure do get pissed when a "piece of shit" Mazda leaves them in a cloud of tire smoke and unburnt gasoline fumes !!! Oh, it is priceless.

Hard choice.

I've owned several BMWs, including an E36 M3. Have test driven the E46 M3 in both stick and SMG form many times. (My BMW sales man just let's me take 'em out whenever, as I've bought several cars from him.) The M3 has a lot going for it and I fully intended to buy one.

But I was a rotary junky from years ago and could never get the RX-7 out of my system. While the M3 cries "respect", they're also all over the place. While the RX-8 doesn't have the power of the M3, the M3 felt heavy in comparison. The RX-8 feels better connected and is more nimble (IMO). Ultmately, I felt the RX-8 gave me as much driving joy as the M3, was more unique, had better sports car like styling, and saved me a bundle to boot. But then, I may have just been tired of BMWs as my wife still has our 540.

Anyway, if you do go for the M3 here's my advice:

1) Get a 2003+ if you can. There was a whole batch of 01-02's that had the engine blow.

2) I prefer the stick. I like the feel of engaging the clutch pedal and snicking that stick into each notch. SMG is cool too, But clicking the steering wheel paddles or pushing the shift knob up/down just doesn't do it for me. Also, the SMG in auto mode is terrible, way too jerky. Also, road tests have shown that the stick is faster than SMG.

You speak my language !!!!!

Go buy a Series 8 FD. In fact I have acccess to a 2000 RZ Limited.

Factory 280ps

0-100km/h in under 5 secs
0-400m iin under 13 ses

All for $50,000NZ

Also has Bling Bling Carbon Recaro Racing Seats as standard.

Will happly smoke a 355 Ferrari or M3 with ease.

Keep the RX-8 though. In 5 years time you won't have lost 1/2 the money you do for a M3.



Sweet car. If the price is right go for it. Personally I wouldn't trade the 8 for anything, but to each his own.

As far as speed and overall performance??? Well, there's a reason I haven't sold my 3rd gen. RX-7. The 8 is a nice daily driver - not as ballsy as the M3, obviously. But, I have yet to come across a car (especially an M3) that could hang with the 7. It goes fast in a straight line AND around the twisties.

Those M3 guys sure do get pissed when a "piece of shit" Mazda leaves them in a cloud of tire smoke and unburnt gasoline fumes !!! Oh, it is priceless.

Stick with the RX-8. I still believe this car will have the same aftermarket support as the previous rotaries. It just takes time; it's almost as if aftermarket companies keep having to go back to the drawing board.

A good friend has a 2003 M3 Convertible with SMG. That SMG tranny is the greatest! You get the power of a fully-manual gearbox with no torque converter "slush" because that's exactly what it is - it's a full manual gearbox with electronic servos that manage the shifts and an electro/hydralically operated clutch. It shifts WAY faster than any human could shift, yet when you're using the paddles or shifter in manual mode, and you have the option of fully automatic operation when you want it for traffic, the wife, etc.

I hope that this idea catches on - it really is "the bomb" as another person wrote.

If you like it and it will make you happy, go for it. I probably would too. As much as I love my -8.

Stew

I'm sure the SMG would be great to experience, but if I had to drop my hard earned cash on it.... I'll pass.


Remember guys... yeah... the M3 is a much better car. BUT you ARE paying for that difference (....and paying dearly if I may add). That thing is like twice the price of an 8, don't forget that. Personally I don't see much else out there thats actually a better deal than the 8 when you look at everything.

If your gonna pay that kinda cash I'd rather have a C6 than a hopped up 3 series bimmer. I know its hard to compare the two as a C6 is a 2 seater, but if your spending that kinda money on a performance car, I'm sure its not your only car.

Nothing against the M3... I just don't know about that price tag