Does it bother any of you hard working guys when someone in a "how old are you" thread says they're getting an RX8 as a highschool graduation present?
Why exactly, does anyone need to be rewarded for finishing highschool? And if highschool so challenging..and if it was..will an RX8 or any other nice car help them?

If they were getting out of college, or grad school, it might be a little more understandable. But for something like "I got a 4.0GPA and a 1200 on the SAT"....really pisses me off...

Originally posted by Lee Chun
a 1200 on the SAT

haha. :o man, whoever gets that score should not be getting any rewards.

as the third asian post :D, i say... WERD! i think it's fairly typical for asian families to expect their children to graduate from high school with a 4.0, honors, and all the other BS. i did that... fairly easily i might add, but college was a different stroy since i was "out of reach" of my parents. but anyway, i know everybody's views are different. my wife's family tried not to do the "buy a car" as a reward thing but tried to spin it as a "convenience" thing (cuz the parents didn't want to drive their kids around everywhere, or have the kids get rides from friends all the time, or whatever). granted, the car wasn't a $30+K sports car, but it was new (or <1 year old). anyway, some people have all the luck. if you happen to be born to parents willing to buy you a new car for something that you should want/need to do for yourself, then count yourself lucky.

(hahaha ... 1200. tell the guy "keep tryin".) ;)

*edit: added explanation so as not to seem like i randomly interjected a racial remark*

some people believe that by rewarding people for accomplishing things (even things as simple as highschool where the most difficult part is just investing the time...) encourages them to work harder for greater rewards... now of course, this can backfire by making kids believe that they'll just have things handed to them (no, i'm not pointing any fingers or anything... just sayin'...)

i got a $300 (cdn) suit for my grad present, and went to the prom. i think that was more than enough, 'cuase i thought a big party for gradding highschool was kinda silly... and, as Lee Chun said, when i finish university i'd have a little bash...

certainly, a car for a grad present CAN be okay, but i certainly don't think that a $40k (cdn) brand new car is appropriate, no matter how rich you are...

btw, 1200 on the SAT's is like 75% correct, right?? and these are scaled, or just nominally graded???
... IIRC, my provincial exams were something like an 89% average or something... i wonder how i'd compare...??

Originally posted by Lee Chun
Does it bother any of you hard working guys when someone in a "how old are you" thread says they're getting an RX8 as a highschool graduation present?

It's all relative, I guess. Why shouldn't parents buy whatever they want for their children.

I was happy just to get a stereo when I graduated. But, I'm sure some lesser fortunate folks were probably pissed at me for that.

Doesn't it make you feel better to be able to buy things for yourself, rather than needing mom & dad to buy it for you? These kids may never know what that feels like. Consider ourselves the lucky ones.

Originally posted by jonalan

It's all relative, I guess. Why shouldn't parents buy whatever they want for their children.

I was happy just to get a stereo when I graduated. But, I'm sure some lesser fortunate folks were probably pissed at me for that.

Doesn't it make you feel better to be able to buy things for yourself, rather than needing mom & dad to buy it for you? These kids may never know what that feels like. Consider ourselves the lucky ones.

werd. if i am able to get an 8, i'll have to get one with no options whatsoever, and work hard for it. but i think it will be well worth it.:) :) :) :) :)

for the SAT comments.. I wouldn't care if someone got a 1200 or a 1600, it doesn't matter to me. I just don't think it should be rewarded...

Some parents work hard all their life and want to reward their children. That is a choice that is up to the parents, weather or not it is right or not depends on the person getting the gift. My parents are not these people (they worked hard, just not super rich) so I can't give prespective on that point of veiw.

Originally posted by cueball1029
Some parents work hard all their life and want to reward their children. That is a choice that is up to the parents, weather or not it is right or not depends on the person getting the gift. My parents are not these people (they worked hard, just not super rich) so I can't give prespective on that point of veiw. If they worked hard it's probably better to instill that work ethic in their kids by getting them a real junker or having them buy their own car by themselves.

My parents signed the lease papers for my Millenia but I've been making payments on it the entire time. After the lease was up my dad bought it because sadly I could barely afford to pay the lease payments... but it was only worth a few grand after that :P

Originally posted by wakeech
btw, 1200 on the SAT's is like 75% correct, right?? and these are scaled, or just nominally graded???
... IIRC, my provincial exams were something like an 89% average or something... i wonder how i'd compare...??

I think its scaled (?). Regardless, 1200 is pretty low...

Anyways, back on topic :) :

Imo, its really a parents choice since it is their money. I really think there is no absolute rule regarding this matter. It really depends on the person receiving the gift. Of course, to work for your own car really makes it that much more special. :)

Originally posted by wakeech

btw, 1200 on the SAT's is like 75% correct, right?? and these are scaled, or just nominally graded???
... IIRC, my provincial exams were something like an 89% average or something... i wonder how i'd compare...??

hrm, it's really a linear scale, ie, you can't actually get a zero. i think the minimum score used to be 400? or was it 600? anyhow, it also used to be that getting a 1600 meant you got EVERYTHING right...in 1995 or so the test was revamped and i went from a 1310 to a 1450, my friend went from a 1080 to a 1350...and to get a 1600, you can actually miss a few questions =) so long as they aren't in the same section hehe

as far as buying the 8 for a kid, i personally wouldn't, not even if i were rolling in dough and lighting cigars with 100 dollar bills. it just goes against everything about the way i was brought up, but hey, they're not my kids, they have their own ideas on what is ok to give their kids.

Well, here's my unique perspective and experience with this topic:

Because of the fact that I worked VERY hard in high school and earned not only a full paid scholarship to several universities, but an additional Florida Academic scholarship, my parents ended up buying me a brand new red 1991 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 automatic with money that they and my grandparents had been setting aside for my college tuition. (it was $14,200 including tax back then, I still remember!)

So yes, my parents (not even close to being wealthy) bought me a car, but I WORKED very hard for it! Needless to say that I was still VERY appreciative and a level-headed person that took the responsibility of such a nice, relatively powerful "muscle car" VERY seriously.

By the same token, being older and having been a working professional for quite a few years now (in a REALLY great government job right now too!), I can attest to how good it feels to be able to put an order in for a car I've REALLY wanted for a while, with everything I need and want in a car (did I mention the RX-8 is awesome?!? :) ), although this is definitely not the first car I've bought myself.

In both instances, I've had to work hard to get to where I am, so the effort put forth in both cases was an essential part of making the experience a lesson in building character and working hard (and smart!) towards a goal.....both very important in life in general.

Ultimately this is a personal decision from family to family given the financial means, personalities, level of responsibility, and other factors of the situation, so I think it's wrong to say that people shouldn't buy this or that for their kids. However, I do believe is setting and meeting some kind of responsible goals and such in order to achieve certain things.

Originally posted by lefuton


hrm, it's really a linear scale, ie, you can't actually get a zero. i think the minimum score used to be 400? or was it 600? anyhow, it also used to be that getting a 1600 meant you got EVERYTHING right...in 1995 or so the test was revamped and i went from a 1310 to a 1450, my friend went from a 1080 to a 1350...and to get a 1600, you can actually miss a few questions =) so long as they aren't in the same section hehe

as far as buying the 8 for a kid, i personally wouldn't, not even if i were rolling in dough and lighting cigars with 100 dollar bills. it just goes against everything about the way i was brought up, but hey, they're not my kids, they have their own ideas on what is ok to give their kids.

I think some questions are weighted more than others. I missed 1 on the math section and got a 770.

I think I detect some jealousy here... Remember it's all relative. If my parents were well of or even better filthy rich, I would have had a car in highschool too. I was a good kid though, always got good grades, rarely got into trouble.. whatever. Bottom line is for a parent that makes 300K a year, a gift like an rx-8 for his kid is the same as a parent that makes 30K a year buying his son a $300 suit. The more you make, usually the more meaninless money becomes.. Heck I noticed it myself when I started to make more money..

Old farts never get it! Kids just have to be cool to be successful. Make your children cool. They will love you, and love themselves. Build their confidence. Confidence causes success. The social aspects of schooling FAR outweigh the random facts taught them.

Originally posted by cueball1029
Some parents work hard all their life and want to reward their children. That is a choice that is up to the parents, weather or not it is right or not depends on the person getting the gift. My parents are not these people (they worked hard, just not super rich) so I can't give prespective on that point of veiw.

What most parents in these situations failed to realize is that they got where they are through struggles. The hardship they faced is what made them stronger. They do their children a disservice by lavishing them with gifts for their good deeds. If Sally got accepted into Harvard, then great, acknowledge and congratulate her. But don't give her a BMW because of it. Parents need to show their children that if something is worth doing then it's worthwhile to do it for its own sake and not because of the gifts. Don't tie the good deeds with gifts. Sorry for going off in a tangent.

Originally posted by Good Duck


What most parents in these situations failed to realize is that they got where they are through struggles. The hardship they faced is what made them stronger. They do their children a disservice by lavishing them with gifts for their good deeds. If Sally got accepted into Harvard, then great, acknowledge and congratulate her. But don't give her a BMW because of it. Parents need to show their children that if something is worth doing then it's worthwhile to do it for its own sake and not because of the gifts. Don't tie the good deeds with gifts. Sorry for going off in a tangent.

I agree with your opinion about something worth doing is worth doing for its own sake (that's why I studied hard in high school AND college, not to mention my having what I consider a very strong work ethic in general), but I don't see anything wrong with a goal or achievement having a tangible benefit as well.

The reality of life is that we ALL work in return for something whether it's money, food, other material items, ideals, personal satisfaction, etc., so why not impart in our children that if they work hard towards a responsible / comendable goal that there are eventual "rewards"?

Yes there is a sense of satisfaction that I personally get from doing everything from solving a major problem or making a noticeable contribution at work, to even acheiving some small personal goal in daily life, but I attribute that in part to what my parents and grandparents taught me while growing up, not just at high school graduation.

BTW....I actually learned to drive on one of the family shared hand-me-down cars, a 5-speed Dodge Shadow Turbo for the two years prior to my graduation and my new car.

Originally posted by Quick_lude
I think I detect some jealousy here... Remember it's all relative. If my parents were well of or even better filthy rich, I would have had a car in highschool too. I was a good kid though, always got good grades, rarely got into trouble.. whatever. Bottom line is for a parent that makes 300K a year, a gift like an rx-8 for his kid is the same as a parent that makes 30K a year buying his son a $300 suit. The more you make, usually the more meaninless money becomes.. Heck I noticed it myself when I started to make more money..

No, it's not jealously. If I wanted my mom to buy me a new Z, EVO, 8, she would (she asked me if I wanted one of those "new nissans" she saw at the dealer). Would I take it, no. And am I potentially one of those spoiled kids? No, and I don't need to go over my finantial situation here.:)

I disagree. I know what you mean by the 300k/30k scenario, but some wealthy parents also know they worked hard to get there, and don't spoil their kids, because they still understand the value of the dollar.:)

EDIT: If I made 300k a year, or 100k a year, there would be no difference. My kid is driving a civic or something like.

Parents invest alot of love time money to raise their children most of us try our best . The biggest investment i will be making on my 3 boys is to organise for them to take advanced driving lessons, so they dont go out on the roads and whipe themselves off ,or anybody else .Driving a fast car is probably the most dangerous thing most people do and yet driving skills are generally preety low . Lee CHUN or any other young person seen in a new flash car does not nessesarily win COOOL POINTS ...If your cool your cool a car wont change that , when most aussies see young kids
driving flash fast new cars we call them WANKERS ....

Bond university near were i live is full of young overseas students driving fancy cars that mummy ordaddy bought for them lot of these people have got no appreciation o r respect for their cars o
r their parents and sadly their killed in car accidents and sent home in body bags ...If your parents are wise and truly love you they will invest in proper driving lesson s so you dont wipe yourselves off BE A MAN AND BUY YOUR OWN CAR THATHS BEING COOL NOT GETTING A PARENT TO BUY IT FOR YOU .ps ; I am 50 years old so i suppose i classify in the old fart department HA HA HA ...

Originally posted by Cylo
Old farts never get it! Kids just have to be cool to be successful. Make your children cool. They will love you, and love themselves. Build their confidence. Confidence causes success. The social aspects of schooling FAR outweigh the random facts taught them. So if they get a new car they are cool?

No... social acceptance is something you can't 'buy' even in high school.

You'll be 'cool' for a week while everybody uses you to check out /drive your car, and then you're back to being a loser.

I was on the short end of the 'cool' meter and i'm better for it. My IQ is much higher than those morons that teased me in high school.

Buying the car is only a part of the popularity ploy I was speaking about. Letting your child be a trendsetter by allowing them to have select things that they see as stylish can go a long way. It doesn't have to be a car, but that is an example.

Once my parents dictated my style of dress my social life died immediately. When I went back to picking my own clothes, we spent more money... but I stopped being physically abused at school. That is an EXTREME example, but it shows what I am talking about.

The only thing you need is confidence and a big mouth to be popular in high school. Oh, and it helps if you are the same race (which I was not, so rather outcast).

High schoolers are narrow minded and stupid (for the most part, specially the 'popular' crowd) and it's not until college that a lot of these kids mature.

I've seen it myself... kids I went to high school with that were cruel and abusive towards me wound up being quite nice.

Which is why I don't care if my kid is popular in school or not. As long as they can get dates then I think they will be happy.. i was terribly lost when it came to that and to this day it continues to trouble me... but that's another story :)

I was equal parts popular and unpopular in school. I went to several schools under a couple different parenting situations (divorced parents) and I was able to determine what made me cool, and what did not, also what made me happy and what did not.

Luckily I never had trouble with the ladies... other than making it last longer that 2 months that is. That has been remedied thankfully.

Above all else, intelligence has been my most helpful trait and I can see why you say what you say Herc... but where I come from, you don't have to be a nerd to be smart.

Originally posted by Cylo
I was equal parts popular and unpopular in school. I went to several schools under a couple different parenting situations (divorced parents) and I was able to determine what made me cool, and what did not, also what made me happy and what did not.

Luckily I never had trouble with the ladies... other than making it last longer that 2 months that is. That has been remedied thankfully.

Above all else, intelligence has been my most helpful trait and I can see why you say what you say Herc... but where I come from, you don't have to be a nerd to be smart. Who said I was a nerd ? :)

Honestly being that my dad and mom are both pretty smart people, I have a certain expectation in friends to be intelligent (not in studies, just informed people, about the world....), and sadly most of the kids in high school were stupid morons that just liked to drink and party... which is fun and all but was never really my thing.

I always hung out with the 'goth' people (though I wasn't inclined to dress that way) because they always had the best discussions going on. That was fun to me :)

to change the subject slightly ... in 11 years, when my daughter turns 16, I might let her drive my RX-8 around (as her car) ... or I might not ... and wait till she's 21 and I get my new RX-10 Hydrogen rotary ...

;)

Originally posted by Lee Chun


No, it's not jealously. If I wanted my mom to buy me a new Z, EVO, 8, she would (she asked me if I wanted one of those "new nissans" she saw at the dealer). Would I take it, no. And am I potentially one of those spoiled kids? No, and I don't need to go over my finantial situation here.:)

People have to remember that it's not what you buy your kids that makes them "spoiled", the larger purchases are usually few and far between even if the parents have the means, it how you RAISE them and the values you instill in them the first 16-18 years of their life. I know that was the case in my family, and I was never "spoiled". That word seems to be thrown around a lot in general. I KNOW that I'm a good person, and a hard worker with ethics, integrity, and good character. I've got the letters of recommendation (including one from a former CEO) and individuals that know me to prove it. That's all that matters.

I can appreciate your "sense of accomplishment" for wanting to buy your own car, but it would be questionable reasoning to turn down the opportunity to get a nice car just to say you did. You only live once and if you are responsible and respectful, you can appreciate the action and your parents just as much. In return, you could make your parents proud and show them a great deal of gratitude and respect by accomplishing something of merit to show them they've done a good job raising you with good values and a strong sense of character. And yes, you can still understand the value of a dollar regardless. These things do not have to be mutually exclusive.



I disagree. I know what you mean by the 300k/30k scenario, but some wealthy parents also know they worked hard to get there, and don't spoil their kids, because they still understand the value of the dollar.:)

EDIT: If I made 300k a year, or 100k a year, there would be no difference. My kid is driving a civic or something like.

This is entirely your right as a parent, but it doesn't mean that other parents are wrong for doing things differently.

Just another point of view..... :)

i agree completely with Dtech... it is how you raise your kid... even kids that get EVERYTHING from rich parents can turn out great if they are taught real values at younger ages.. now, for me, no matter how much i make (and at 24 i make good cash), i would never buy a high schooler a 30K car, now if they find a cure to a disease maybe LOL... but i think it is just to much for a young person.. if they have a problem with a nice honda or toyota, then i have done something wrong.. but that is just my situation...

BTW- that post about the family earning 300K and 30K is completely LUDICROUS!!! the family earning 300K, after the 30K purchase, still has 270K that year to spare!! the family earning 30K, has the lower salary to live on.... that is like saying, if Bill Gates, who is worth like 40 Billion decides to drop 80% of his worth to charity, it wont be no BIG DEAL, cuz he stilll has 5 billion to live on... for any family, buying a 30K car to an 18 year old can be a recipe for trouble.. not in all cases though.. i know a 20 year old chick (hot one at that), daughter of CEO and Chairman at Allergan in IRivne, and she drives a red Ferrari modena.. she seemed to turn out ok LOL

I'll partially agree...

I just think it's irresponsible of parents to get their kids a brand spankin new sports car as first time drivers.

I know when I was that age that testosterone and hormones sometimes got the best of my judgment and that, including having friends in the car or whatever... is just a recipe for disaster.

It's not to say that all teens aren't responsible... but as parents you don't know your kids 100%, and if they have a sporadic moment of testosterone then you don't want to be sitting in a hospital room praying for them.

It's not much to do with spoiling so much as it is safety. Since my sister is a first time driver, she'll be getting a nice little Miata, and *I* will teach her how to drive. My dad was great in teaching me stickshift and getting from point A to B, but he didn't teach me the proper skid control, car control, and emergency techniques I've learned over time and by educating myself (in parking lots :p).

It's just my opinion, but if you're a parent that gets their kid a fast flashy car as a first car, you're not a very responsible parent because you haven't thought of the consequences of having such an automobile. The first car is ALWAYS a learner's car, and as you progress in your control and experience then you should step up to something that better suits your driving style. My brother learned the same stuff from my dad like I did... but he's a very passive driver. He's like a luxury cruiser. I'm the opposite, and would rather have a sports car.

But it took me a learners car (in my case a 170hp Millenia that by the way.. I paid for!) to understand that the proper car for me would hold the road, give me a jarring ride, and give me some exhiliration. And I know that I'm no expert... in fact I'm going to take Skip Barber's Driving School shortly after I get the car. I'm saving for both constantly, and the only fun I have of late is going to see a movie on Fridays.

Originally posted by Hercules
I just think it's irresponsible of parents to get their kids a brand spankin new sports car as first time drivers.

I know when I was that age that testosterone and hormones sometimes got the best of my judgment and that, including having friends in the car or whatever... is just a recipe for disaster.

It's not to say that all teens aren't responsible... but as parents you don't know your kids 100%, and if they have a sporadic moment of testosterone then you don't want to be sitting in a hospital room praying for them.

It's not much to do with spoiling so much as it is safety. Since my sister is a first time driver, she'll be getting a nice little Miata, and *I* will teach her how to drive. My dad was great in teaching me stickshift and getting from point A to B, but he didn't teach me the proper skid control, car control, and emergency techniques I've learned over time and by educating myself (in parking lots :p).

It's just my opinion, but if you're a parent that gets their kid a fast flashy car as a first car, you're not a very responsible parent because you haven't thought of the consequences of having such an automobile. The first car is ALWAYS a learner's car, and as you progress in your control and experience then you should step up to something that better suits your driving style. My brother learned the same stuff from my dad like I did... but he's a very passive driver. He's like a luxury cruiser. I'm the opposite, and would rather have a sports car.

But it took me a learners car (in my case a 170hp Millenia that by the way.. I paid for!) to understand that the proper car for me would hold the road, give me a jarring ride, and give me some exhiliration. And I know that I'm no expert... in fact I'm going to take Skip Barber's Driving School shortly after I get the car. I'm saving for both constantly, and the only fun I have of late is going to see a movie on Fridays.

Herc:

I respect and agree with your point of view, especially about a first car, that's why I mentioned that I drove and shared a hand-me-down Dodge Shadow turbo 5 speed (not to mention a Honda Civic DX Hatchback) with the rest of the family for the first two years that I could drive. It is very important to get some experience so that you are safer and better prepared to handle situations in a more "dynamic" car.

Not that I never did anything stupid in my Mustang but on the rare occasions I did it with much more caution and retraint than if it was the first time driving a car, and as a result I never got in over my head and never got hurt. I also was very successful at not letting peer pressure let me push myself and my car further than I felt knowledgeable and comfortable driving.

It definitely takes a bit of experience AND a level head to have fun driving without getting yourself into trouble! ;)

I dont see why you should get a "reward" for doing or graduating anything. You are doing things to reward yourself in life, not your parents!

I feel you should just be grateful they gave you food and shelter. Anything else is a bonus.

My whole motivation this year is to earn enough money to get the 8 next year. And i have a daily desktop reminder. ;) Thats the only motivation I need.

Originally posted by said7
I dont see why you should get a "reward" for doing or graduating anything. You are doing things to reward yourself in life, not your parents!

Again, every family situation is different, but this is the way I see it in my case. Regardless of any possibility of any kind of "reward", I worked hard to earn my scholarships to pay for my college. I spent my time studying (and still having fun) instead of having to work a part-time job and possibly having my grades suffer to some degree. As a result, I ended up earning scholarships to pay for my college career. Seeing this, my parents and grandparents felt that the next best thing they could do for me as a family gesture of being proud was to make sure I had reliable transportation to continue my schooling away from home. The fact that it ended up being a Mustang (because they new I liked them at the time) was just a bonus and a matter of trust in my judgement and responsibility. No they didn't have to, but they did it out of kindness and love and I'm very grateful and thankful that they did. I consider myself VERY fortunate. I actually did work a part-time job for a while in college even though I didn't have to, just so I could save some extra money and have some extra to spend as well.

I feel you should just be grateful they gave you food and shelter. Anything else is a bonus.[/B]

This goes without saying! This also goes hand in hand with what I said about parents raising you right and giving you good values.

My whole motivation this year is to earn enough money to get the 8 next year. And i have a daily desktop reminder. ;) Thats the only motivation I need. [/B]

This is a very commendable effort for you, but makes it sound like getting a car for graduation is / was the ONLY motivation to do well for some of us. Of course it was not, at least in my case given what I mentioned above. I'll also go as far as to say that I feel a teen shouldn't get a car or any else for that matter without accomplishing something of merit with respect to their individual abilities and being respectful and appreciative of their parents in general. Again, family situations will vary.

It's been a relatively long time since I graduated high school and even college, so this is pretty much a moot point for me, but I will definitely continue to proudly and lovingly pass on the values and traditions inherent to my family in my two small daughters!

High schoolers are narrow minded and stupid
I would not quite agree with that although I understand what you are saying, Hercules.

I think a brand spankin' new car is not a very suitable present for graduation, in my opinion a present of money towards a car would be more appropriate. I know people at school that are given presents for even the smallest thing, for example someone was given a brand new P3 computer just for obtaining marks less than they are capable of when they were only 12 years old! Now they just do not try at school and are still rewarded for it.
My parents are giving me there old E21 Baur converted Bmw 323i, which I was more than chuffed about!:D I would never ask to have a new car given to me as a present, especially a Rx-8!

buy if and only if he was valedictorian and have a future to go with the rx-8. Either than that nah.

IMHO -

Kids should learn the value of "real work" and rewards. Going to school is a priveledge and should not be viewed in any other way. I was always tought that school was something to better myself, rewards were only paid dinners at some restaurant I liked or money, which I had to decide what to do with. This would imply saving money for a car or a trip. In either case, education is a requirement in life and doing things "you're supposed to do" does not equate to a new car.

BTW, i graduated third best in my school, went to MIT on a full-ride and all I ever wanted were my parents to be proud for the fact that they had to work a crumby job in brooklyn, NY and go to sleep that all their hardwork didn't go down the drain.

--alex

D-Tech good point and post.

In my case i had to pay for my college regardless. If i got a scholorship i was saving myself money and not my parents. I was up for Florida Meit Scholorship and my last semester my stupid ass calc teacher gave me a D (or maybe I earned I cant remember) Well that was 10K for 4 years down the drain.

I dont hate on kids that get cars, I mean heck I would have taken one.:D

I guess how you view this depends on how you raise your children. I got a new MX5 two years ago as a company car. Since then I have investigated the car and taken a number of performance driving schools.

This year my son turned 16 so rather then risk damaging my company car, I found an 11 year old, 160,000K, 91 Miata for him to learn to drive. It has nothing to do with graduation or anything else, I want him to learn to drive safely and got a car for the purpose I was looking for.

When looking for a car we test drove a 95 Transam. My son remarked that it was way too powerful a car for a first time driver and that he would not feel safe learning to drive it. I agreed.

Since getting the Miata he has had two performance driving schools and a winter driving school as well as regular drivers ed. He can now confidently drive either Miata, my wife's jeep or the family Intrepid and I have no worries being in the passenger seat or even the back seat. At the winter school his instructor remarked that he would have to problems putting my son in his race car, even though he would not let most 18 year olds in his area drive his go cart.

The problem I have with people giving children these expensive cars has less to do with them spoiling their kids then it does giving them something beyond their means and thus risking their kid's lives, not to mention some rather nice iron.

I figure my son will get the 91 miata as his own at some point but by then he will have learned to drive properly and will have done a lot of the mechanical work on the car. Also being a two seater I am less worried about his friends egging him on to do stupid things. It also does not have much power so he has to focus more on driving skill rather then speed.

In the end it has more to do with why the child has the car then if he should have it or not.

Too bad that's how asian parents r and they will never change.....they want to have the best for their child and they want them to do the best that they could so they would set a standard telling them to reach some goals and if they did then they would satisfy their needs...that's how my parents treated me ;)