Doc are you smiling?

The Rockets are going to be an interesting team next year... if Shaq and Kobe stay in LA, then that will be a very exciting match up.

McGrady isn't worth the people we lost. What Houston needs to do is send Jeff Van Gundy to L.A. and bring Rudy T. back where he belongs.

GO BULLS! Wait we suck! I wish we got mcgrady. that would be worth to watch.

how about this which is better, college ball or the ego ball of the nba

Houston had a good all around team this past season Although Francis had the crappiest season of his career, there was a lot of cohesion with Yao, Mobley and himself. IMHO, McGrady won't fare so well with Houston. It's going to turn out to be another Shareef Abdur-Rahim blunder with McGrady not pulling numbers like he was in Orlando (vis-a-vis Yao). Francis on the other hand, might make a difference in Orlando. He's going to be the go-to guy no matter what people say about Dwight Howard. Francis will be sure to have an average score above 20 next season.

Originally posted by rotarygod
McGrady isn't worth the people we lost. What Houston needs to do is send Jeff Van Gundy to L.A. and bring Rudy T. back where he belongs.

I sure do miss Rudy:( I hate the Lakers (and Cowboys and Yankees and Longhorns for that matter). Now I have to chose between my appreciation for Rudy and my hate for the Lakers. Yes, trade Van Gundy for Rudy T.

I'm not gonna miss our 41% shooting guards though.

Originally posted by whosyourbaba
GO BULLS! Wait we suck! I wish we got mcgrady. that would be worth to watch.

yea no shit! when Jordan, Jackson, Pippen, Rodman, and team were around i didn't miss 1 game, not 1 game for like 5 years...this year, i didn't watch 1 game, period...i was the dork that'd walk into a sports bar and ask, "so...who's playing?"

I hear you Brx8, those were the days, never missed a bulls game my self, to bad the nba doesn't have another player like jordan. Lebron is good, tracy is good, but no one can compare with jordan.

I'm just hoping for Shaq here in Dallas.

Shaq's going nowhere. Although he wants to exit LA, the management in no way in hell will let him go easily. If anything, the Lakers might be willing to trade Shaq for Nash and Nowitzki. Other than those 2 players, the Lakers have no one else worthy to pick. I wouldn't mind if Yao came over here for Shaq btw.

Originally posted by BRx8
yea no shit! when Jordan, Jackson, Pippen, Rodman, and team were around i didn't miss 1 game, not 1 game for like 5 years...this year, i didn't watch 1 game, period...i was the dork that'd walk into a sports bar and ask, "so...who's playing?"

what kind of fan are you? jumped off the bandwagon heh? i have been a celtics fan all my life. they havent won a ring since 1986. but i'm still a fan and watch every game i can.

it's still suck-ass basketball. McGrady is terrible (look at his shooting percentages, not to mention his me-first decisions on the court), and Francis is a joke: absolutely zero mental and emotional commitment for the millions he's paid.

Originally posted by RX-GR8
what kind of fan are you? jumped off the bandwagon heh? i have been a celtics fan all my life. they havent won a ring since 1986. but i'm still a fan and watch every game i can.

i was never a fan of basketball to begin with, i always sucked real bad at sports, always the last guy to get called...the only sports i'm heavily into are Boxing and Mixed Martial Arts in which there really aren't too many favorites, belts switch hands too quickly and past champions quickly slip into obscurity

the only basketball i enjoy watching is streetball, specifically And-1...now those guys can play!

Originally posted by wakeech
it's still suck-ass basketball. McGrady is terrible (look at his shooting percentages

Crap I just looked at his shooting percentage. It seems we traded a couple of 41% shooters for a 42% shooter. I'm already losing a bit of my optimism for this trade.

see what i'm saying?? in Orlando he took more shots than anyone, like better than half of the total possessions his team would get per game. and of those, he hits (on average) 42%??? that's a fugging joke. it's not like he gets a ton of Off Rebs to make up for his sucky shooting, or he goes to the foul line a LOT and shoots well there either, or makes a lot of assists or has a good head on his shoulders... it's 100% marketing gimmick, just a way to sell tickets. it's disgusting.

and as for you Brx8, those And 1 guys cannot play basketball, as if they (and most of the players in the NBA) played by the rules they wouldn't be legally able to do half of the fancy stuff they try. but yes i do agree they are many talented entertainers out there. i just really really hate pro-basketball right now.

Originally posted by babylou
Crap I just looked at his shooting percentage. It seems we traded a couple of 41% shooters for a 42% shooter. I'm already losing a bit of my optimism for this trade.

42% is not bad. kobe was 41% for example. i bet the league avg is no more than 45%

Originally posted by wakeech
yes, it is bad. look at good shooters from history. 41% is not a good average. you ought to do no worse than 1 point/shot at the pinnacle of basketball for crying out loud.

hey, where'd your post go??

it posted it under another name so i deleted it! and reposted!

Originally posted by RX-GR8
42% is not bad. kobe was 41% for example. i bet the league avg is no more than 45%

ah ha, found it.

yes, it really is that bad. at this level of ball you shouldn't be doing worse than 1 point/shot, i mean if you're the STAR player, the go-to guy, the one to take that last shot every time (presumably the best shooter), you should be able to at least SHOOT well. look at the great shooters of history. 41 or 42% fg average is not good.

Originally posted by wakeech
ah ha, found it.

yes, it really is that bad. at this level of ball you shouldn't be doing worse than 1 point/shot, i mean if you're the STAR player, the go-to guy, the one to take that last shot every time (presumably the best shooter), you should be able to at least SHOOT well. look at the great shooters of history. 41 or 42% fg average is not good.

i'm saying its not bad relative to the league shooting today. yes you're right they should be able to make a higher %. but remember 3 point shots too. there are way more taken now and that lowers the shooting pct plus the skills are being learned on playgrounds and alot of these kids are coming out early and bypassing college.

Originally posted by wakeech
and as for you Brx8, those And 1 guys cannot play basketball, as if they (and most of the players in the NBA) played by the rules they wouldn't be legally able to do half of the fancy stuff they try. but yes i do agree they are many talented entertainers out there. i just really really hate pro-basketball right now.

yea, that's why i said they can play "streetball" and not "basketball"... streetball is where most of those now professional basketball players start off at, usually at the playground playing 3 on 3...there are almost no rules in streetball and it's almost like a rap battle of who can out-dribble the other opponent...i come to think of it as "eXtreme basketball"

any professional sport that involves a lot of money and contracts really detract from teh game...it becomes like politics and gets watered down by all the endorsements and lucrative contracts over actually playing the game...only a few athletes still play the game for the love of it

McGrady's not that bad, his shooting is slightly low because he was the only scorer in that team. The opposing team would always guard him. Now that he has Yao, he will be able to create some of his own space. I think Houston will be a better team next year. BRx8..I don't want to burst your bubble, but And 1 players get schooled by NBA players.

darius miles who plays for the trail blazers played with and 1, he didn't do all that great when he played with them, but you can't really compare the two, and 1 is all about having fun and embarrasing the other players. Theres quite a few Nba players out there who are fans of And 1. No offense, but i think a few and 1 players might be able to make it in the nba. The main event isn't that bad, but to compare the two is just wrong, streetball and basketball are different, trust me, you bring an nba player down to play with the and 1 people, two to one, they're bound to get embarrased atleast once.

But with the trade and all, i think it was a great trade, everyone talks about mcgrady, but howard didn't have that bad of a season last year, i'm happy for houston, they might have a shot to make it to the finals depending on dallas, timberwolves if stay healthy, and spurs. The lakers are over for now. I'm just waiting to see how the #1 draft player does, he's been kind of arrogant, but screw orlando and houston, go Knicks!!!!

BRx8.... dude, how could see watch the bull with dennis roman for 5 year? :)

Dennis rodman wasn't that bad, he was a pretty good rebounder, but had a bad personal life, and, uhh, they had jordan, who didn't like to watch jordan play.

I mean I like Dennis very much, his rebounds are superb, if I am right, he got the best defensive player award in pistons. The point I say here is he was only in bulls for 3 years and we can't watching his game in bulls for 5 years.

I don't know if it was And 1 or Rucker Park's vids, but there was a film that featured Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Kevin Garnett, and I believe Jermain O'neal. Least to say, they were pulling "And 1" moves on all the street ballers. And 1 is very entertaining, but most of the time, the game becomes really sloppy until the player(s) dazzle the crowd with their oohs and ahhs. And 1 is very much similar to the NBA in that both businesses operate on money. And 1 salaries are obviously not that high compared to NBA wages, but all of the teams are still sponsored by many small companies. They need money to continue to play and so forth. Hotsauce was in the NBA for a very brief period, but either was released or left the league. Nonetheless, And 1 highlights will always be flashier than NBA clips, but I personally have to say that I would rather watch the grace and style of the NBA than And 1.

Originally posted by Big_ton
BRx8.... dude, how could see watch the bull with dennis roman for 5 year? :)

just saying, those were my favorite players, not that each of them played for the entire course of the 6-peat...Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman were an unbeatable team...many other players contributed but not as much as those 3, such as John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Bill Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, and Toni Kukoc...

i can still remember all those 3 pointers by John Paxson in the finals in '93, and when Jordan played with the flu and still scored 38 points in Game 5 of the '97 playoffs...i can still see Jordan running up and grabbing the trophy, crying when we won our first championship and the thousands of people that crowded Grant park to watch the ceremony

...ahhhh...those were the times...the only other time i can remember being interested in a Chicago team was the '85 Bears with Jim Mcmahon, William "The Refrigerator" Perry, and Walter Payton...i still have my Walter Payton jersey that wore every night when i was a kid

yeah Brx8, i didn't mean to sound so angry, it's just that i WAS... coaching so much basketball, i just hate the NBA for inflating the egos of no-talent airheads that think they know better than me how to run a team. so i'm pretty sore at McGrady, who is a rather terrible player as star NBA players go.

man, i will never, ever, ever, EVER forget The Shot (well, spelt Teh Shot on the intarweb i s'pose): steals the ball from Malone at the other end, seconds left, outlets, cuts back across the court to the top of the key, the forever infamous "push over" (crossing the ball over and pushing his defender Byran Russel (not sure of the spelling anymore) out of the way) and the roof blowing nothing-but-net championship winning shot. un-freakin'-believable. that is basketball at its best.

I love NBA basketball. Sure, the WNBA and college ball are more fundamental (and very similar imo) but not as exciting to watch in general. The NCAA tournament is exciting, but the vast majority of college games are just not up to par with the NBA. Too boring.

I'm excited about the trade. I've always liked Tyronn Lue, he brings a lot of energy to the table and is a better passer than Francis, and Juwan Howard is the power forward we have been waiting for for a long time. He should complement Mo Taylor's game well.

To say McGrady is terrible is to say that you do not know much about basketball. Doc Rivers had a quote today that says it all: "If everybody was on a playground somewhere, it wouldn't take long for all of them to figure out who was supposed to get the ball. No matter how good everybody thought they were before he showed up, they'd know to get him the ball." I do not expect to see him score as much now that he has a dominant center with him, however. His numbers will go down, and perhaps his shot selection (and shooting percentage) will improve.

We are going to miss Cuttino. His shot, like many 2 guards, is hot and cold, but he brought consistent defense, and could guard anyone (even Kobe). I won't miss Francis as much. I would like to see him move to 2 guard, but I bet they will keep him at point. Too bad, he isn't a point guard. I would have liked to see how he matured under a second year of Vangundy's tutoring. I hated his attitude, he needs to grow up.

Now we need a backup center and a backup point guard. Yao doesn't have the stamina to play a full game. I can't see Mark Jackson coming back for another year at point.

I wouldn't trade Yao for Shaq. If we get the right role players, we should be able to contend with this team. My prediction: We will get Charlie Ward. Vangundy loves him.

I agree with wakebeech that and1 basketball players cannot play real basketball.

Just look at the And 1 team. Rafer Alston 'skip to my lou' is apparently a god on the street. Two years ago he was the 13th man on the Bucks and a year ago, a mid year pick-up off the waiver wire.
'AO' apparently tried out for the SuperSonics a couple years back. Obviously didn't make it. Then went to play on the BENCH on some NBDL team.
Don't get me wrong. And1 is very entertaining and those guys are good at what they do. Its more than fancy dribbling and some showboat passes and dunks.

Just think about it. Why do teams keep on signing Oliver Miller?For his chubby good looks? I really have no clue, but I'm sure he brings something to the table that most Street Ballers lack. Size? Footwork? Defence? Work Ethic? I donno but it says a lot to sign him over any of the players on the AND1 squad.

Being from Toronto, I naturally hate T-Mac. But to say that he's a terrible player thats just being ignorant.
He's pound for pound one of the best players in the league --> 2nd to only Kobe, but thats debatable.

I agree his attitude sucks but his 41% shooting percentage is not too bad considering his situation in Orlando and the supporting cast he had to play with. If any of his team mates could sink a bucket with consistency, he wouldn't need to force so many shots. If you look at his previous stats, he is a career 44% FG shooter. I don't like him, but I will have to admit that he is pretty damn good.

All in all - somewhat fair trade for both teams. Mcgrady is twice the player Francis is but giving the Magic Cuttino too makes it a decent trade for both parties.

Is this a basketball forum? Anyhoo, I live in Houston, and I don't like McGrady or Francis. Trust me on this guys...witchdoctor.com

Originally posted by shelleys_man_06
Is this a basketball forum? Anyhoo, I live in Houston, and I don't like McGrady or Francis. Trust me on this guys...witchdoctor.com

no this isnt a basketball forum. but this is the lounge which is a subdivion of the rx8club forum. in the lounge you can talk about anything you want within reason.

I personally think both Houston and Orlando made out good in this trade. T-Mac already said he is ready to play second fiddle to Yao. It's going to be great for him to have another scoring option on the team. Personally I don't think Steve Francis was fully capable of fitting into Van Gundy's system so that's not really much of a loss while it may work out great for Orlando with Mobley (and a possibly healthy Grant Hill). McGrady has a long wingspan so he can be helped into becoming both an offensive and defensive threat (he will need to become a little more defense minded under Van Gundy). This should be good for both teams.

On a side note I don't know if anyone has heard but Steve Nash is with the Phoenix Suns now. Should work out good for them. While he's no J. Kidd or Stephon Marbury this is pretty big for the Suns to sign a PG of his caliber.

good post and coach K is being wined and dined by the lakers/

Originally posted by Hornet
I personally think both Houston and Orlando made out good in this trade. T-Mac already said he is ready to play second fiddle to Yao. It's going to be great for him to have another scoring option on the team. Personally I don't think Steve Francis was fully capable of fitting into Van Gundy's system so that's not really much of a loss while it may work out great for Orlando with Mobley (and a possibly healthy Grant Hill). McGrady has a long wingspan so he can be helped into becoming both an offensive and defensive threat (he will need to become a little more defense minded under Van Gundy). This should be good for both teams.

On a side note I don't know if anyone has heard but Steve Nash is with the Phoenix Suns now. Should work out good for them. While he's no J. Kidd or Stephon Marbury this is pretty big for the Suns to sign a PG of his caliber.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
To say McGrady is terrible is to say that you do not know much about basketball.

...coming from a guy who thinks the NBA is more exciting than college division 1 ball?? hahaha...

seriously, how long did you play?? how many teams have you coached?? how many different levels have you reff'd at?? how many Basketball Hall of Famers have you met?? please.

also, for anyone else doubting my estimation of McGrady's talents, notice that i'm putting him in the context of people who were actually great... obviously he could kill me on a court more easily than i could kill any one of you... :p

Originally posted by wakeech
...coming from a guy who thinks the NBA is more exciting than college division 1 ball?? hahaha...

seriously, how long did you play?? how many teams have you coached?? how many different levels have you reff'd at?? how many Basketball Hall of Famers have you met?? please.

also, for anyone else doubting my estimation of McGrady's talents, notice that i'm putting him in the context of people who were actually great... obviously he could kill me on a court more easily than i could kill any one of you... :p

Why get upset about someones opinion? I personally prefer to watch the overpaid NBA players instead of college ball but that's just me! In all honesty, while T-Mac's numbers aren't that great for FG% this season, his career numbers are not that far off from some of the 50 greats of all time. He is just shy of 45% for his career and he is almost a year younger than Kobe Bryant. What that means is he has time to get more accurate (just think, he can potentially play about 10 more years). This was actually T-Mac's worst season as far as FG%. He also has averaged about 6.4 rpg and 4.1 apg for his career (even though he actually tied his highest season apg this past season I think that number is going to spike with Yao there). Here are some examples from the 50 best list and their FG%: Larry Bird 49%, Clyde Drexler 47%, Julius Erving 50%, Dennis Johnson 44%, Earl Monroe 46%, Bill Russell 44%, Lenny Wilkins 43%, and Dominique Wilkins 46%. Most of the big men on the list were over 50% (because of the way they score). Basically I'm not bashing your opinion, I'm just saying T-Mac is not far away from greatness and should not be counted out yet.

Originally posted by Hornet
Why get upset about someones opinion?

'cause things are more fun over here when there's a valid opinion in opposition to the general direction of the thread ;)

and yeah, big men are better for scoring because of that higher average, which is only the complete opposite of how the NBA plays these days.

McGrady will not get better, will not round out his skills, or further develop his mind in the game. he will learn how to play in the NBA, be a millionaire a hundred times over well before he's 30, and will subsist in lingering celebrity and lavish luxury for the rest of his life. he doesn't need, or obviously want, to be a great player.

No offense meant, just a gentle dig. I still don't see how meeting a Hall of Famer improves one's understanding of the game. I'll let you defend that one. :p

I think it will be fun to watch Yao's development as a player and how T-Mac's game evolves with a dominant big man in the middle and (hopefully) a more solid team around him. Here's a prayer for Derek Fisher....the assassin....to join the Rockets. I can't wait for the season to start.

Those guys earn their money imo.

Originally posted by wakeech
'cause things are more fun over here when there's a valid opinion in opposition to the general direction of the thread ;)

and yeah, big men are better for scoring because of that higher average, which is only the complete opposite of how the NBA plays these days.

McGrady will not get better, will not round out his skills, or further develop his mind in the game. he will learn how to play in the NBA, be a millionaire a hundred times over well before he's 30, and will subsist in lingering celebrity and lavish luxury for the rest of his life. he doesn't need, or obviously want, to be a great player.


Your comment as far as the need/wanting to be a great player seems to contradict what he has done to this point. T-Mac came from the shadows of Vince Carter in Toronto and told the Magic what he was going to be and did just that. Nobody with the desire to win requests a trade if they don't aspire to win which is what he basically did to get to Houston to get some help. I don't think it's possible to be 1st in the NBA for PPG if you are not trying to be great. If he were not trying to be great he would be like Tim Thomas or most of the supporting cast from the Lakers. I do believe a coach like Van Gundy will help his all around game. I think his shot blocking is going to go up, I believe his assists will go up. Orlando has killed his all around ability some (as demonstrated by his shot blocking steadily declining since his arrival there) but in time we will see if he can be better.

I already know we won't agree on this though so what is your take on the Steve Nash joining the Suns?

If we could only get Michael Finley, and if Juwan Howard is able to come back, and Dikembe has another year like last year......