...but then the Mrs. threw a big 'ole monkey wrench into the mix. It was settled...done...chosen. And then, "Get what you want, but it just has to have AWD". Coupled with my requirement that the car have four doors (in some manner of speaking - which is why the 8 was perfect) this kind of screws up my plans.

So, my top 2 new options:

Audi S4: 340hp, 0-60 in 5.3 sec
Volvo S60R: 300hp, 0-60 in 5.7 sec

Complete sleepers - which I like...but the 8 still embodies the type/size car I'd prefer. If only AWD was an option...imagine the possibilities. :D

-Eric

Get the S4..its fast,fun to drive,and you get luxary with german engineering....do it.

Or how about an Infiniti G35x Sedan ? About the same price as a fully loaded RX8

STi... that's like the stealth fighters of 4dr AWD sedans... total sleeper... no one would suspect ANYTHING!

Or you could just tell her, "Yes, dear... it has AWD as long as that DSC/TSC is on..." cough cough... unless she knows something about cars... then well, you're screwed.

Could always trade in the wife. Of course, you sound pretty happy with her so let's throw that idea onto a back burner.

Last month's or this month's Car and Driver had a great, and I mean really great, analysis of drive wheels versus marketing hype. It might be a good way to convince her that All wheel drive isn't all that it's cracked up to be. After all, a rear wheel drive with 50/50 weight balance, traction control, dynamic stability control, AND SNOW TIRES is going to do everything that you want a raod car to do. Now if you guys are planning to drive up a mountainous dirt road. . . well chevy builds some great products.

If she HAS to have All Wheel drive . . . Infiniti G35 now has all wheel drive, and that would be a great compromise car for you. Best of luck - H

Test drive an '05 Subaru Legacy GT Limited. The performance is comparable to the two you mentioned, the AWD is there, the interior is fantastic and it won car-of-the-year in Japan. An absolute bargain at under 30k.

Well, SJT's idea would be great until the snow flies. Then there'd be big trouble at your house. The Volvo is pretty cool... and they DO offer European delivery, meaning they fly you and the missus to Europe and back and the car's at least $3k cheaper than you'd pay here. Shipping home's part of the price, and so are duties, taxes, etc.

Audi S4, hands down winner.

Great performance, beautifuly interior, and classic clean exterior styling (and hurry before the face lift version comes along with the big snout grill). The S4 has beaten the M3 and C32 AMG in several car mag shoot outs.

I was thinking of getting one myself, but I really wanted a sports car. The Audi is a terrific sports sedan, but it will never be a sports car. Here's an idea, get your wife an Audi S4 Avant and she'll be so happy she'll let you get the RX-8! You'll have the best of both worlds.

Originally posted by Keshav
Test drive an '05 Subaru Legacy GT Limited. The performance is comparable to the two you mentioned, the AWD is there, the interior is fantastic and it won car-of-the-year in Japan. An absolute bargain at under 30k.

Have you seen the Legacy? Man that thing is beautiful and 250HP/250 ft-lbf to boot off an STI engine. I imagine a boost controller with some ECU tuning, easy HP modification. Definite worth a look. Less $$ for the car and probably a lot less $$ for the mods.

Why not just tell her you're getting the AWD version of the 8? :D

Nonsense. Buy snow tires and a spare set of rims.

After years of white-knuckle driving, I bought snow tires for my BMW last year. The Blizzaks were the Shiznit. I was passing sport-utes, Jeeps, and trucks in driving snow. You can't beat a purpose built snow tire.

Buy the 8 and visit http://www.tirerack.com.

AWD in New England would make sense. To be straight, here in Montreal, winters can get pretty severe. I also ski and I'm not so sure that I would have the 8 as my only car........

Quality snow tires will get you anywhere you need to go, esp with the 8's stability control. Remember: AWD doesn't help you do the really important things, like stop the car. I would rather have a RWD car with snow tires than an AWD car with all season tires.

No offense, but if it's your car, why does your wife get to choose it? I don't tell my wife what kind of car to buy, and she doesn't tell me, either.

If I had to buy AWD, it would be an STi without the rear spoiler (trunk swaps make this fairly painless). Get it in black and it'd be plenty stealthy. The 2005 Legacy GT is also an excellent suggestion. The new Saabaru 9-2X is pretty nifty, too, though not as potent as the other machines.

T.

Originally posted by Sue Esponte
...but then the Mrs. threw a big 'ole monkey wrench into the mix. It was settled...done...chosen. And then, "Get what you want, but it just has to have AWD".
-Eric

This is why I'm ADAMANT on the "this is MY car, that is YOUR car" thing with the wife to be. Shes always welcome to drive my car but she will not have Veto power over my decision (unless i really fall off the edge...which wont happen). I made sure this was crystal clear. But it don't matter 'cause she loves the 8

Originally posted by Sue Esponte
...but then the Mrs. threw a big 'ole monkey wrench into the mix. It was settled...done...chosen. And then, "Get what you want, but it just has to have AWD".

WHY??? Ask her to explain WHY! Sure you could buy an S4 with high performance summer tires on it - and at the first snow fall, the guy beside you in an RX-8 with winter tires on it will blow the S4's doors off.

AWD doesn't work miracles. It helps get the vehicle moving, and that's about it. AWD vehicles still rely on the traction provided by the tires for acceleration, cornering, and braking - and again, AWD only helps with acceleration. For cornering and braking, you're still at the mercy of your tires.

I have an Audi allroad (quattro AWD) and the RX-8 that I drive in winter. Both are equipped with good winter tires (because, as I said above, AWD doesn't matter without good winter tires). I prefer driving the RX-8 in winter conditions, and took it skiing to the Banff ski areas several times last winter. In deep snow, yeah the Audi is preferable, but that's the only time!

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by sjt
STi... that's like the stealth fighters of 4dr AWD sedans... total sleeper... no one would suspect ANYTHING!



exactly how is the wing on the back of the STi stealthy?

no kidding, those wings are ugh, as much as I love the EVO and STI, I really wish they would have left the wing design to the Supra guys lol

If you can afford an S4 why are you even considering an RX-8 in the first place, just go buy it. However everyone here is correct, you still need winter tires for it

Yeah no kidding Rx-8 and S4 aren't even close to the same league price or performance wise. From my one experience in an S4 all I can say is those are not cars, they are face blurringly fast transportation bubbles that send you forward in time with minimal turbulence. :)

Don't get the Audi if you want to keep it after the warentee! I had an 01 A6 (shared tranies with the previous S4) and had two tranies in 10K miles.

Don't test drive the Volvo after you drive the 8. That front wheel drive slow response suspension feels terrible in comparision.

Get the "8" with winter wheels as suggested!

Yeah I wouldn't buy an Audi either, quality control is terrible. They are fast when they work though. There isn't a lot of need to spend more than 40k on a street car these days. The 8 is the obvious choice.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
AWD doesn't work miracles. It helps get the vehicle moving, and that's about it.

My primary fear this winter is spinning the RWD RX-8.

I'm guessing AWD would help avoid this, since I assume all four tires would break loose, not just the rears?

I've heard good things from a couple of A4 owners that are friends of my dad, he used to own an old quattro (1990 ish).

When I was in Washington I had the opportunity to be the nav for someone doing a checkpoint style race, not my thing but it was fun. If I want rally I'd prefer taking a WRX through dirt trails and such. Anyway, we did the Cascade Loop the S60R (it could have been the S40, memory is kind of fuzzy), it was the one with the brushed metal going down the center and a nav unit that sticking out of the dash.

The handling and sense of power actually surprised me, it seemed more like the WRX than what I had thought a volvo was capable of, not as much power mind you ;) Sorry about you not getting your RX-8. My wife finally gave up, saying "get what you want", with the caveat that her next car would be what she wanted. ;)

Originally posted by HeelnToe
My primary fear this winter is spinning the RWD RX-8.

I'm guessing AWD would help avoid this, since I assume all four tires would break loose, not just the rears?

Actually, the RX-8's traction control and stability control help avoid that - they are very effective at nannying the car. I usually turned them off, as I like to be able to throttle steer the car on snow, and the safety systems would not permit the slightest slip. If I wanted to relax and drive and not have to worry about a slide or spin, I just left the nanny controls active (they're on by default).

With AWD, if depends on the car's AWD configuration - if it has an open centre differential like many of them do, then once you exceed the traction limits, you'll get the wheels at one end of the car spinning. If that end has an open differential (almost all do at the front), then you can easily end up with one wheel spinning and the car getting stuck!! Most modern AWD cars rely on electronic brake application for traction to prevent the one-wheel-spin scenario (including Audi, although they at least use a Torsen LSD in the centre). That said - it's still down to tires. An RX-8 on winter tires is far less likely to spin than an Audi on all-seasons or summer tires. On winter tires, the Audi will be a bit less likely to spin - but then again, it will be more likely to understeer off the road if you're cornering a bit too fast for conditions.

Which leads to the discussion of another factor - an RX-8 is lighter than any of the AWD Audis, the S4 is at least 800 pounds heavier! That's extra inertia which the tires have to manage, contributing to understeering off corners that an RX-8 with equivalent tires could hold on to...

Regards,
Gordon

PS - my Audi allroad is a 2002, 6 speed manual behind the twin-turbo engine (same drivetrain as previous-generation S4) - it's been dead reliable for the 2.5 years I've had it, absolutely zero problems.

ANOTHER POINT on the weight. i would rather try to push my stuck rx-8 out then the much heavier AWD Audi :)

Originally posted by IkeWRX
If you can afford an S4 why are you even considering an RX-8 in the first place, just go buy it. Price is just one factor, some of us can certainly afford a $50K-$70K car, but choose not to. My wife already drives a luxury sedan in that price range, so a second one for me is redundant. My previous car was an M3, the current M3 or Porsche Boxter would be nice, but frankly I liked the RX-8 just as much as those cars and saved a bundle. Its styling, rotary engine, and 4 door design make it an entry level exotic for the ordinary joe.

I think the fact that I can afford more expensive sports cars but chose the RX-8 makes a statement for just how good this car really is.

Originally posted by RX-Hawk
Why not just tell her you're getting the AWD version of the 8? :D

just me thoughts excatly

If the RX-8 is about the size you are looking for, why not go for an STi or Evo?

The S4 is a much bigger and heavier car, so it just isn't going to have the nimble, tossable feel that you were hoping for. I'm not saying it isn't a nice car; it just doesn't sound like what you want.

The S3 probably would have been ideal given your requirements, too bad they don't sell them in the US...