Do any of you have any recommendations as to which type of engine coolant i should use? i was driving home today and a government building light popped up (lol).

bump! can someone atleast point me in the right direction? searching yeilds no results

The manual says only an ethylene-glycol based coolant. (pg 8-13)
Have to read the labels I guess - I don't know which brands have this mix. :)

Car your car dealer :)

evans npg+

Not Evans! Not if you want to follow the manuf. recomendations. Prestone etc. standard antifreeze. Not the long life stuff, which is propylene glycol. Ethylene glycol is supposed to be changed every 2 years. Lots of RX-7 owners change it every year. This keeps the corrosion protection at max. effectiveness.

I use ethylene glycol with distilled water 50/50 mix in my 3rd gen RX-7. Just to give better corrosion protection, a higher boiling temp., and to give freezing protection here in the cold white north ;) . Even though I don't drive the car in the winter, the coolant will still freeze if not protected by glycol.

Really dumb question. The rotors is aluminum, right? What is the block/chamber section made of?

Everything is aluminum From what I understand.
No matter what Anti freeze you use make sure you mix it with distilled water.

Just ethylene glycol, the green stuff, not the red or orange....

Dave (RX-8 friend) is right, make sure it's green and mixed with distilled water, 50/50. The 'block' is made of slabs of steel alternating with 'rings' of aluminum, so the potential (no pun intended) is great for dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion.....if you set out to make an engine that would self destruct from the inside, it would be difficult to do a better job than that!

Less than 50/50 may be recommended for other cars, or warmer climates, but don't skimp on your rotary, the engine needs all the corrosion protection/acid neutralizer it can get. More than the 50/50 risks the worse hazard of overheating; the glycol cannot carry as much heat away as water can.
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doc

Originally posted by RX-8 friend
Not Evans! Not if you want to follow the manuf. recomendations.

Evans is some damn fine stuff. It is not compatible with water in any way. It has to be used alone, no water added. It is expensive stuff but dissipates heat better than antifreeze, has a higher boiling and lower freezing temperature than water/antifreeze, and offers better corrosion resistance than antifreeze. The only thing bad about it is price. It is superior in every other way. There is nothing special about the materials that Mazda uses in their cars vs any other company.

No one listens to the manufacturer recommendations about using only Mazda parts. Mazda doesn't recommend new ecu's, new intakes, new exhausts, etc. This board is flooded with them. Basically what I am saying is that it works just fine.

But, just so everyone understands, Evans NPG is a COMPLETE cooling replacement. You can't just top off with it - there is a very special procedure to be followed to swap over to Evans coolant.

Real hard to say if Evans would present any warranty problems.

But, for a "typical" user, good old 50/50 antifreeze/water, changed yearly, goes a LONG way. It's real obvious when you see a cooling system that's been taken care of and one that hasn't. I've seen 100,000+ mile engines with bright clean aluminum showing in the cooling passages, and I've seen yellow/orange discoloration and corrosion. Unfortunately, you see more of the latter, since people just don't bother with the cooling system. Really, for a rotary, I'd put the coolant ahead of oil in importance.

Dale

Really, for a rotary, I'd put the coolant ahead of oil in importance. This goes for any engine that has steel and aluminum combined in the engine.



That is why I asked what the engine is made of. With it being sandwiched together with steel and aluminum, then a yearly change of coolant would be optimal.

Chevy runs the Dexcool on there's.

Toyota uses their own red stuff that is 100% silicate free. Toyota red is the best stuff on the market IMO. Only problem is, it's notorious to cause a lot of leaks on other makes of vehicles due to being 100% silicate free. I've seen many examples of Toyota's achieving over 200,000 miles on all original cooling system parts (except the normal hose changes) running only Toyota red antifreeze. The radiator and engines show NO signs of corrosion at all.

Heh, I have a friend who works at DOW making glycol for contract buyers (Canadian Tire, for example, has their coolant made there). He is horrified by what he sees Toyota specify for their coolant. DOW wouldn't make it for them.

Don't know if Toyota's stuff is good or not, but I used standard ethylene glycol and distilled water in my 90 4Runner and it was still good as new 11 years later.

Does anyone know how many gallons of engine coolant are required to do the full conversion to NPG+?

-jc

From evan's NPG+ site...


Installation:

Evans NPG+ is non-aqueous, meaning it doesn't like water. It is also incompatible with ordinary coolants. To convert to NPG+, you need to get rid of all the moisture in your cooling system, as well as all traces of incompatible coolant, thus avoiding contamination. The way to do this is to flush your cooling system as if doing a normal coolant change: warm the car up with the heat on (to open the heater core valve), and drain the radiator and engine block. Also be sure to siphon off any coolant in the overflow bottle and/or air separation tank (3rd gen RX-7s). Once the system is thoroughly drained, there will still be some residual incompatible coolant and water. Here, we use an intermediate product that will absorb moisture and is compatible with Evans NPG+: Sierra coolant. Sierra is a "pet friendly" nonpoisonous coolant you can find almost anywhere. Since it is made with Propylene Glycol (like Evans) but is aqueous like Ethylene Glycol (ordinary coolant), it is the perfect thing to do the job. It will absorb any residual moisture and cleanse the system, but any residual Sierra will not contaminate the Evans product. After flushing the system as usual, fill with straight Sierra coolant (no water) and drive the car around for 15-20 minutes with the heat on, then drain and refill with Evans NPG+. Don't forget to add some to the overflow bottle, but not too much -- Evans NPG+ expands a bit more than ordinary coolant when hot. The procedure might sound complicated, but it's easier than it seems and is well worth doing. It will also be the last time you need to flush and refill your cooling system as normal preventative maintenance! In the future, if you need to drain the cooling system for any reason, just capture the NPG+ in a clean container and refill when you're done. To convert your cooling system to zero pressure, just remove the rubber seal on the inside of the radiator cap. If you want to run a low pressure system, however, you will need to find the appropriate aftermarket cap. We have found zero pressure works just fine. We recommend, however, that you use the stock, unmodified pressure cap for about a week before converting it to zero pressure. This will help get out any air pockets that might be trapped in the system.

Please note that this is NOT the "long-life" orange-colored coolant, reputed to cause coolant seal damage. Evans NPG+ is waterless, so there is no need for all the troublesome anticorrosion additives used to extend the life of ordinary coolants.

For more information visit the Evans website.


Coolant Mfr.
http://www.evanscooling.com/


So what you are saying is that I can't use the intermediary Sierra solution in my engine to do the transition to NPG+?

cool, thanks for the clarification, that will work so I deleted my incorrect post

the only thing you have to worry about is somebody else putting ordinary water/coolant in it by mistake

This would be the correct way to do this in any coolant system...the rotary should be no different, the intermediate step is the key. BTW - I think this is the 'premium' way to treat your car, and esp. the rotary as it has such a high heat-to-size ratio, with esp. hi-temp areas around the exhaust ports. I've been thinking about doing this myself when the weather gets warmer. Also for a confirmation, just call and ask them about this procedure for the rotary.

Sounds good. Now does anyone know how many gallons I need to purchase?

-jc

Just ethylene glycol, the green stuff, not the red or orange....

Dave (RX-8 friend) is right, make sure it's green and mixed with distilled water, 50/50. The 'block' is made of slabs of steel alternating with 'rings' of aluminum, so the potential (no pun intended) is great for dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion.....if you set out to make an engine that would self destruct from the inside, it would be difficult to do a better job than that!

Less than 50/50 may be recommended for other cars, or warmer climates, but don't skimp on your rotary, the engine needs all the corrosion protection/acid neutralizer it can get. More than the 50/50 risks the worse hazard of overheating; the glycol cannot carry as much heat away as water can.
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doc
Manual says to use 60/40 does it not? Read the manual...

Sounds good. Now does anyone know how many gallons I need to purchase?

-jc


the Mazda sales brochure says 8.7 liter, better buy 3 gallons at least and since you can't put anything else in there you might want to have the same on the shelf just in case ...

If you buy the standard stuff, don't they come premix 50/50? Or, are there extra step to add distill water to the solution to help? I added RP coolant additive to the reserve tank after driving 1500 miles in it..but, if what I'm reading is correct, it sounds like it would be good to drain and fill every 2 yrs? My next question would be if you get the 50/50 premix solution, do you still need to add some distill water to it?

Some brands come either way and you really need to look closely at the container to select the one you want. If you get 50/50 mix you don't really need to add water unless you live in any area where the temps drop well below zero (F) and you need a higher percentage of coolant. Go to the Prestone website or check one of their containers for a table that provides the level of protection based on the percentage of coolant/water.

BTW, you can pick up an inexpensive tester at your local auto parts store if you want to check the boiling and freezing points of the coolant in your system.

My radiator light came on after i replace the coolant with HKS super coolant. Thought the HKS coolant will be a better choice since it claims a 4 degree drop in running temp. i think i will stick to the normal coolant which is green in colour. HKS is orange in colour.

It's probably the same concept as normal coolant mixed with water wetter. If the "add coolant light" came on after adding the HKS crap, it's probably because you were low on coolant.

Evans has a new version out now, NPG-R

EVANS COOLING SYSTEMS, INC. introduces NPG-R, its
newest addition to their innovative line of waterless Engine
Coolants. NPG-R is specifically formulated to handle the extreme
conditions of racing and high performance automotive, marine and
motorcycle applications. Engines previously unable to be effectively
cooled with water or conventional water-based antifreezes now have
the option of the improved heat transfer formula of NPG-R.

NPG-R exhibits superior coolant flow, as it is less viscous than the
popular NPG+. Its improvement in thermal-conductivity increases
the ability of NPG-R to transfer extreme heat away from the engine
coolant jacket. This provides superior engine metal temperature
control. High coolant temperature related detonation is also
eliminated with NPG-R as it stays in a more liquid state instead of
converting to vapor and creating hot spots within the engine coolant
jacket. Remaining in a more liquid state allows NPG-R to remove
additional heat from the cylinder heads when compared to other
coolants. The heat is then transferred away from the engine
providing continuous control of cylinder head metal temperatures.

The reduced viscosity of NPG-R makes it more compatible with small
tube copper-brass radiators while providing the superior cooling of
Evans Waterless Coolants. (NPG+ and NPG are only recommended
for large tube aluminum radiators.) All metals, including Magnesium,
are safe to use with NPG-R. Although NPG-R is safe for all metals
and contains no water, an annual coolant change is suggested for racing vehicles. For maximum corrosion protection, high performance street driven vehicles running NPG-R should change coolant every other year.

NPG-R does not freeze or boil-over. In cold temperatures (down to -1OF°) NPG-R will not freeze and expand like conventional water-based antifreezes potentially cracking the engine block. In contrast NPG-R contracts into thick slurry - never becoming a solid. With a boiling point of 400°F at 7psi, NPG-R will never boil-over because it immediately condenses back to a liquid within the cylinder head coolant jacket, maintaining a liquid contact on all metal surfaces at all times.

As with NPG+ and NPG, NPG-R is a stand-alone coolant. Therefore, NPG-R requires all the existing antifreeze and water to be removed from the radiator, engine block and heater core. (Evans Prep Fluid is available for smaller capacity systems where the engine block cannot be fully drained) Once system is empty fill 100% with
NPG-R. A free Test Strip is included with all purchases as a guide to a successful conversion. Technical assistance is available to assist in determining which Evans Waterless Coolant is right for your application

Just wondering how often u have to add coolant?

What would u guys recommend for a tropical country which is basically 23-30 degrees celsius the whole year?

That -10 F limit wouldn't hack it in NE lol, that's just a warm winter day here! On the other hand, do you know if we have what they call "a small tube copper-brass radiators or a large tube aluminum radiator"? I'd consider the 'normal' NPG+ a good investment and its 375 F or more under pressure boiling point sufficient headroom over conventional antifreeze to eliminate localized overheating and vaporization of the coolant, if it's compatible w/our radiator.

Just wondering how often u have to add coolant?

What would u guys recommend for a tropical country which is basically 23-30 degrees celsius the whole year?
You should only have to top off your coolant very infrequently. Anything more than a few ounces annually could indicate a problem with leakage, either internal to the engine or externally. Your manual has information on the recommended type of coolant to use. Go by that so as not to void your warranty.

we'll find out, I ordered some ...

anybody drain yet?
i'm thinking of getting myself some npg but would like to hear from u guys that have done it already... thanks

We're all ...just.......waiting.....:scared: for TeamRX8 to put his NPG+ in and see if he has "a small tube copper-brass radiators" in which case the NPG+ clogs it up and he blows up :FIREdeviland we know not to do it.:rollingla

If instead he has "a large tube aluminum radiator (http://www.rx8club.com/newreply.php#)", we all :ylsuper: , then go empty the NPG+ store and throw away our radiator caps! :cool:

We're all ...just.......waiting.....:scared: for TeamRX8 to put his NPG+ in and see if he has "a small tube copper-brass radiators" in which case the NPG+ clogs it up and he blows up :FIREdeviland we know not to do it.:rollingla

If instead he has "a large tube aluminum radiator (http://www.rx8club.com/newreply.php#)", we all :ylsuper: , then go empty the NPG+ store and throw away our radiator caps! :cool:

except that I did not order NPG+ :wiggle:

The reduced viscosity of NPG-R makes it more compatible with small tube copper-brass radiators while providing the superior cooling of Evans Waterless Coolants. (NPG+ and NPG are only recommended for large tube aluminum radiators.) All metals, including Magnesium, are safe to use with NPG-R. Although NPG-R is safe for all metals and contains no water, an annual coolant change is suggested for racing vehicles. For maximum corrosion protection, high performance street driven vehicles running NPG-R should change coolant every other year.
and there won't be an A/C condensor in the way either, stop spinning in circles and pay attention bub ... :)

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1279635&postcount=25



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Ops! That still doesn't answer the central question...does anyone know exactly what kind of radiator we have? ... I don't mind paying once and going thru the change once for this expensive coolant...but not every year or so.

Anyone care to speak to this?

lol, I was just :stickpoke you

Every two years except for full-on race cars. I look at it the same as SRF brake fluid; seems expensive but when you compare it to recurring costs like tires, entry fees, travel expenses, etc. it's not really that much once you get past the initial sticker shock.

With the NPG-R it doesn't matter what the material is, but I don't have your answer. Try calling Motorsports, maybe they can tell you. I suspect aluminum/plastic. I'm also slowing my water pump down with the SpeedSource pulley kit.

who knows, you might be right :uhh: somebody has to be first ...

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Looks like I'm going to have to order in some of the Sierra coolant for flushing the water out of the system, thought I could find it local but came up empty after checking numerous places today :(

Any updates TeamRx8?

I'm waiting on the Sierra flush coolant to arrive. Ace Hardware Online offered free shipping to a local store, which is just down the road from me, but they didn't tell me it might be 10 days until after I placed the order. I'm buried in getting other stuff done on the car right now so there's really no rush since it's up in the air for a while longer. I won't be able to report back on this until I get the car done, plus I'll need to install a real temperature guage to determine anything meaningful. We'll have to rely on someone else to provide actual temps pre-mod since I didn't get to take those.

Mounted the RB ram air tonight and cut/mocked up the pattern for the intake shield using 1/8" foam board, will post some pics in the Aftermarket Forum/Umnitza Intake thread tomorrow. I'm getting psyched about the way things are falling into place. I just wish there were more hours in the day and days in the week.

Koni has the front shocks done and will probably finish the rears on Monday then I get to have fun playing with spring lengths, hope to build out the exhaust week after next, slowly but surely ...

I used a major brand 50/50 premix last November to top off a low overflow tank. However, I just got a shock. I was in for my 20K service last week. The service writer came up and told me he was ordering a new engine for me!!! The purported reason is that I have a minor (he said that I'd have never seen it) external coolant leak in the rear housing of the engine.

So the story here is that if you find you need to add coolant, perhaps you should have your engine inspected!

The local Ace Hardware called and said the Sierra flush coolant arrived today, but I'm out of town through tomorrow, plus I don't have either an intake or battery mounted in it yet

Well I can say this is not something most people will want to do, both in regard to cost and hassle. You can only get 5 - 6 qts out of the 8.5 qt system by doing a simple drain. I did three Sierra coolant flushs and then 1.5 Evans coolant flushes. It should be below the max allowable water percentage threshhold, but the Evans NPG-R coolant is clear and my system still has more green tint than I'm comfortable with. I bought some more and will do another flush or two, it's added up to quite an expense ... your only other option is to dismantle hoses and try to blow it out with compressed air.

Team, not to get your discussion off course, but I just added a half bottle of Water Wetter, think it will be beneficial during the summer season? Not having any problems, just think that if it can help any hotspots inside the engine, the better, right? Thanks.

have a drain plug at the engin block, around the right side engin mount. that will drain most of the engin coolent out.

crap, there wasn't anything in the manual about this :wallbash: :rant: :pfanndina well at least I'll get it right when the next shipment comes in

Winning 8, If it was not in the manual, how did you find the drain plug?

Winning 8, If it was not in the manual, how did you find the drain plug?

This is common knowledge if you spend enough time around Rotaries. My old RX-7 Mazda shop manual had this info. Maybe the RX-8 manual has this info too, but I dont remember for sure.

Here's the plug on a 2nd gen RX-7, but I don't see a similar plug in the parts break-out for the RX-8. May be there, I'll have to look, but the RX-8 shop manual doesn't mention it in the coolant-replacement instructions.

I already said that it's not in the literature and your diagram shows it on the left side, not the right ...

Team, not to get your discussion off course, but I just added a half bottle of Water Wetter, think it will be beneficial during the summer season? Not having any problems, just think that if it can help any hotspots inside the engine, the better, right? Thanks.



technically you should flush all the coolant out and use water only with the RL Water Wetter, this may be a winter issue depending on where you live/drive

I don't know why the RX8 shop manual don't have it but it is there. just open your hood and look you will find a 14 mm at the bottom.

thanks, I meant to look but was occupied with other stuff ...

i mean the driver side. sorry about the mix up

the other right side, gotcha :p:

OK, did the flush tonight including the engine drain plug not mentioned in the manual. Huge diference, drained over 8 qts out and replaced it with new Evans NPG-R coolant. Expensive lesson for me, but hopefully everyone else will benefit now. No problem making the switch to Evans now that the additional engine drain plug is known.

How did the drain coolant look, pretty clean?

there's only several thousand miles on the car plus I had already flushed the radiator 4 or 5 times prior trying to get the percentage down since I was only getting 5 qts out before learning about the unmentioned engine drain from Winning 8, so the coolant was always clean, even the first draining

That's awesome; congrats! Have you noticed any immediate differences w/ the new coolant? Warm up times any quicker? What about running the car realy hard? Also, have you gone zero pressure yet?

So, it looks like I'll have to wait a bit to do this -- I just got a 2006 Kawasaki Ninja 636 (ZX-6R). The bike pays for itself with the amount of gas I'm saving!!! :)

Don't use Evans or watter wetter. It's just like the synthetic oil topic. Mazda doesn't recommend it! Oh no, you're engines will all blow up if you do! God help us all!!! You can't go back, yada yada yada... ;) :rolleyes:

Water Wetter eats away at coolant seals!! :eek:


/sarcasm

LOL RG, I was thinking the same thing when I read that in the service manual

just driving around town it makes no difference at all, the thermostat is in complete control of the temperature based on its setting specs which assuming it' accurate are:

cracks open at 176 - 183 degF

full open at 203 degF

Hey Team --do you have a temp gauge that reads up to 400F? Now that would be cool--no pun intended.
olddragger

OK, did the flush tonight including the engine drain plug not mentioned in the manual. Huge diference, drained over 8 qts out and replaced it with new Evans NPG-R coolant. Expensive lesson for me, but hopefully everyone else will benefit now. No problem making the switch to Evans now that the additional engine drain plug is known.

Any issues when re-installing the plug? A little teflon tape on the threads, etc?

it's a std metric thread bolt with an aluminum sealing washer, I just reused the washer

It will likely never be anywhere even close to 300 degF in the overall system, let alone 400 degF. The issue is spot overheating like around the exhaust and combustion side as well as overall boiling temperature protection. I never thought for a moment it will ever get much higher than normal, it's mostly just added protection for an engine that will readily self destruct if it boils over. If I'm lucky it will also run harder without experiencing knock... but I'm not counting on it.

Any comments/advice on a lower temp thermostat? I obviously don't want to get too cool of one, but some lowering might be a benefit I think, but am not sure ...

I don't really see a point in it. Lots of rx7 owners, from what I've seen, had issues with running non-OEM temp spec t-stats. Lower ones would create a condition where the clutch fan would not even engage most the time because the temperature never got hot enough. Their temp would be barely above the bottom/cold line as well, when normal operation was between 1/4 and 1/2.

Yes, and so my concern was expressed, but what are the specs of their OE & aftermarket t-stat? This might provide some more insight ...

I can't remember the exact specs. From what I recall it's *around* 180 when it cracks open a bit, maybe 175-180, and its fully open by 195-200 I believe.

Normal operating temp for the 2nd gen rx7, turbo and non, is 180 to 195 degrees approximately, and everything is cool up to 210 (stop-and-go traffic in the summer time). There is cause for concern anything past that, though, and if it doesn't drop soon it's usually advised to pull over or do something quick before it goes beyond 215-220.

I'll get the actual specs from the 2nd gen FSM in a few, I just got home from work.



The aftermarket t-stats they had issue with were the generic auto parts store ones, like the 160 or 170 or whatever ones. Even using the 180 degree rated ones lots of people had issues, but I think that was more due to poor quality parts.

Ok here's the actual stats on the 2nd gen.

Initial opening at 177-182º and full open at 203º

hmm, same as the RX-8 ...

Yes indeedy.

Also some info, this has some stats for "Mazda Competition" apparently:

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/MODS/EL/GAUGES/wtemp.htm

Team you wanna post a little mini DIY right here for us, just simple steps 1-6 so there's no misunderstanding?

i would like a DIY :]... my light goes up but when i start driving... it dissapears... should i just add coolant (boguht from mazda) or do i mix it with water then add it into the resovoir to where its supseo to be... ? or should i change the coolant... ?

i would like a DIY :]... my light goes up but when i start driving... it dissapears... should i just add coolant (boguht from mazda) or do i mix it with water then add it into the resovoir to where its supseo to be... ? or should i change the coolant... ?
If the coolant you buy is not already a mixed 50/50 blend of coolant/water (it'll say on the bottle), then mix it with water. Otherwise if it is mixed already you don't have to.

Add to reservoir, no need to change it all just because your coolant is a little low...

Theres a drain plug by the engine side ? I didnt know that.

Mu coolant is like almost a year old. If theres not much snow tomorrow, Im going to :

Drain everything with the plug on radiator and the engine
Pour Coolant into the tank.
Park at incline
Add more and more
Until it reaches the top.

Theres a drain plug by the engine side ? I didnt know that.

Mu coolant is like almost a year old. If theres not much snow tomorrow, Im going to :

Drain everything with the plug on radiator and the engine
Pour Coolant into the tank.
Park at incline
Add more and more
Until it reaches the top.
How many miles?

Most brand new cars that have fresh coolant mixed with water properly in a completely new/clean system are good for 5 years and between 50,000 and 100,000 miles. Even when you mix new coolant with a bit of old coolant it is still good for 2-3 years or 30,000 miles on average.

Really, hmm But I kinda prefer to keep it in Top shape. All the time :P

Well its raining Ice right now. not gonna do it today or tomorrow.

I drain it once before, but I just drain the stuff from the Radiator Out. And Bleed the system by what Abbid suggested, parked at incline, open the radiator cap, and pour coolant in until its full.

Now I want a complete system flush, might as well try some Evans ? :O

Yeah, I would like a DIY listed. I've got 15k and the car is a couple years old and I was thinking about replacing the coolant. I thought about draining the fluid from the radiatior only. Then get one of those flush kits from Preston and flush the system. Then replace the coolant with Preston 50/50 mix.

How does that sound? Also has anyone taken there car to a dealer for a coolant flush? If so, how much did it cost?

Bump from the dead

I just changed my coolant with Nascar Advantage crap from canadian tire, stuff is pink, but turns yellow when its time to change, which is slated at every 2 years/50 000kms

claims to be etylene glycol based and be basically the same as the traditional green stuff, with low scilica content, anyone else use it?