i've noticed several letters in recent mags having to do with the mazda6. many of you will remember that when the packaging first went online for the 6 we were all quite disturbed. to get anything you wanted you had to add several other things that you didn't want raising the price well above anyones expectation. this had dire warnings of things to come for the rx8 so we sent our complaints to mazda and they effected some changes making the packages more sensible.

so to my surprise in the march issue of either r&t or motor trend there was a letter complaining about the current package setup for the 6. the letter basically made the same points as we did some months ago. the potential buyer couldn't get what he wanted without a lot of other stuff he didn't, putting the car out of his price range so he bought something else
then i read this morning the april issue of c&d. a letter there talks about the glowing review they did of the 6 and how it convinced this person to go test drive and attempt to buy a 6. unfortunately according to the letter only 5%percent of the 6's coming to the country have the 6 cyl and manual tranny which the mags got to test and the buyer was unable to get one. he went elsewhere.

now on the good side a letter writer in the new c&d said how he was reading the last review of the rx-8 and almost fell off the toilet when he got to the end and they listed the base price. he couldn't believe it was so low! (greg from newtown,pa if you have found our site let us know:D ) the downside is that i have noticed some complaints from on this board about not being able to get leather or the LSD or the DCS without getting a whole package that they may not be able to afford.
also there was a short mention of a letter about the placement of the front plate which we have all talked about at one time or another.

my question is this- is mazda shooting themselves in the foot with these packaging/pricing issues? how many customers(not us rabid folk here but normal ones) are they going to lose because of these issues. imho if they want to get a bigger market share they need to take a serious look at these issues. the 6 is their bread and butter car and have promoteted the zoom-zoom spirit of it at length but then, it seems, aren't givng the customers the car they have convinced them to buy. for those of you waiting for the next rx-7 or the mazdaspeed rx-8 or even the mazdaspeed 6 should be worrying. if mazda continues to dissapoint potential customers in this way, those cars might never appear :(

Excellent points Zoom. Mazda will definitely do much better in sales if they would break out some of the packages into individual items - at the very least make leather and the sunroof separate $700-$1000 items each or something.

A lot of people who see a base price of $25,700 (auto) or $27,200 (6MT) will never understand why getting leather or a sunroof pushes the price to $30,300 (auto) or $31,100 (6MT) - that is a huge $4000 jump. Result: loss of sale to another brand.

If Mazda were smarter, they'd openly used public forums like this to gain valuable feedback. They did change the packaging options for the 6 based on feedback from THIS site, I know that for a fact. They should do the same on the 8. And they should also openly ask us for other advice, and actually reply with their own input.

Use us a free, willing, and expert consultants. Proof-readers for their draft of what to offer. I wish there was somebody I could tell to offer the 2 tone blue/black interior in the US. Somebody who I could give my advice on audio system setup. Somebody would could do something about the little details that the core customers want changed.

I bet sales would increase if Mazda would take all of our input and actually do something with it.

thank you both for your input. it's a wonder to me after how ever many emails that they have received from members of this forum that they have not responded publicly on here to some of our concerns. it seems, from reading the posts from the uk members in the europe forum that mazda uk is treating them only slightly better. they don't have much info either and have similar complaints but they have all seemingly had emails in regards to their pre-orders and are getting brocures and other info sent to them via regular mail.

i have sent a slightly reworded version of my post as an email to mazdausa this morning and a second one expressing my concern about the dealer experiences i have heard on this forum-especially our freind from hawaii. all of the 3 dealers there quoting him $4,000 over MSRP is outrageous! it's the best thing i could think of at the moment. i'll post the responses when i get them.

edit: boosted7 addressing the concerns of the core customers is exactly my point actually. if potential new customers get turned away due to their experience at the dealer, unavailability of the mazda6s or because of the packaging there won't be the next 7 or whatever else the core customers are looking for. the turning away of the general population customer should be a major concern for the core customers. it seems to me that their current marketing strategy is taking them in the opposite direction from where they want to be headed.

I feel that if Mazda really wants to make money... they'd hire me :D

I know what people want! Horsepower! At least in the Mazda6. It should have had more horses and a cheezy 4 cylinder. People would have bought the four cylinder but to be running in a class of a car with 250 horses that's generally enough :)

here is the reply i received from mazdausa. i have only posted half because the rest is the normal 'thank you for contacting us take this survey" stuff:

"I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.

In regards to your e-mail, the transmission-mix ratios, and available
package options/combinations are the decisions of our Product Planning
team. Please understand the team is working within the limitations of a
complex manufacturing environment, with many variables, during these
new car launches. Rest assured that our Product Planning team does
value customer feedback, and does review comments on various forums
from time to time.

Please understand we have already documented all of your feedback, from
all of your e-mails. We have already sent it directly to those who make
the decisions. At this time, you may consider the information listed on
our website to be the most current available.

If you have pre-ordered an RX-8, you may depend upon the automatically
generated status-build e-mails for updates."

the bit about the emails is a nice way of saying they are tired of hearing from me i think. the last bit infuriates me as i seem to be the only one on the forum who pre-ordered before jan 13th and has not gotten one of those confirmation emails.
well, i hope someone there is really listening
:(

When I started working in manufacturing I was shocked when I saw just how complex it is to bring a product to market. It can take years to go from the drawing board to actually being able to ship the product. Through the whole process you have bean counters reigning back the wild ideas that the engineers and marketing guys want to implement. You also have time constraints with trying to beat your competitors to market. Just remember that most companies are in business to make a profit and unfortuantely most decisions are based on the bottom dollar.

In the case of the RX-8, it is cheaper for Mazda to only produce a couple variations of the car (i.e. Base, Sports, Touring, Grand Touring). By having only a few models it increases the volume of parts/options and they get a better price on the parts from their suppliers. Plus they know that you will probably still buy the car even if it has a couple of extra features that you don't want.

If you really want Mazda to change their packaging schemes then you need to tell them how they would make more money by offering more choices to the end user. If you can do that then it is a no brainer to implement your suggestions. :)

Speedracer has got it right.

I'm sure many people were surprised at the relatively low MSRP of the RX-8. One of the reasons the low price was a possibility is because Mazda just builds several different trim levels of RX-8s. I believe that this is common practice among all automakers.

It would be much more expensive to build cars to spec with whatever each customer wanted and these costs would get passed down to the customer.

Brian

But I thought in Japan you could order the car any way you wanted - it's just the rest of the world (especially USA - the biggest market) that has minimal choices. Of course I could be wrong about Japan...

Yea, if it's so hard to produce combinations of the car, why can they produce certain combo's in some countries but not in others? I know 3 people there were on the fence about buying a RX-8, 2 of the 3 I talked into it. Both have made pre-orders, both never owning a rotary or a Mazda for that matter. The one that didn't order said she would have ordered if she could have got the blue/black two-tone interior. Nit-picky I know, but still it cost Mazda a $30K sale.

And I'd sell my M3 convertible right now for a RX-8 convertible if I could get one ... or when I can get one that's what I'll do :D

see that's some of what i am talking about. in canada 2 of the options are moonroof or moonroof +nav. why can't a person get one or the other. it's fine if they wany to package things to save money on purchasing parts, but why force someone to get a moonroof when they just want nav. how could one have anything to do with the other as far as manufacturing goes? they don't do that to us in the states. also why advertise and let the mags rave about a hi power version of a car at a certain price then not make that product available and if there is one to be had it's loaded with so much stuff that the price has jumped well over what the customer was expecting.

why offer the cloth seats at all? if they all came standard with leather then their purchase of leather would be bigger and they would save money. and there would be money saved from not buying cloth. then even if the base price was a little higher they would have an advatage over the competition who didn't have it standard. well someone from marketing would say "there are some people who won't buy because of the leather seats". well you know i would like heated mirrors but i can't get them because they are in the package with leather!

granted mazda is a small auto maker. they don't have enough lines to offer the flexibilty that some other bigger companies can. they are producing their cars at an exceptional level of value. but their packaging seems abit off. would it be so hard to put the sat nav in a car for canada that didn't have a moon roof?

Hey Zoom I am with you. I ordered on Jan 8th!

But frankly I have given up on Mazda. We will get what we get and no matter what we do or say they will do what they want when they want to.

I really don't think they give a sh*t.

Originally posted by quicks8
Hey Zoom I am with you. I ordered on Jan 8th!

But frankly I have given up on Mazda. We will get what we get and no matter what we do or say they will do what they want when they want to.

I really don't think they give a sh*t.

see and when quicks8 or his relatives or his friends think about gettin a new car will he look at mazda again? will he send those other people to mazda? draw your own conclusions

Especially after the fact I got an email back from rx8orders that specifically said there would be an 8 at the Cincinnati Auto Expo this weekend and when I went over there on Thursday night and paid the 10 bucks to get in they didn't even have one. It is in CLEVELAND. Ok logically how many states surround Cleveland, Ok now think about how many surround Cincinnati, no tell WHY is the 8 in Cleveland and not here? I would think there would be a bigger draw in Cincinnat than there, but that is just me. I am so pissed at Mazda right now. As I said before, I just give up.

When my wife and I were looking for her SUV we looked at the Nissan Pathfinder before finally buying the Ford SportTrac. As I looked at the different pathfinders I noticed how many different configurations there were. Well, after reading about them I found out that the Pathfinder and the Nissan pickup(forget the name) are the most configurable production cars available. There are something like 200 different combinations you can choose. Now why couldn't Mazda have done just a fraction of what Nissan did? Seems it is possible, even though they are a smaller company(I think)...

in 1964 and 1965 when the mustang first came out they sold millions. there were no packages but a huge list of options. so many in fact that almost no 2 cars from those first couple of years are exactly alike. like my '65 it was almost the total GT package-hi power engine dual exhaust with chrome tips protruding thru the rear lower valence the stripe running on the bottom edge of the car. but it was the factory light blue paint with a white vinyl top. inside it had the famous pony interior but a Bench front seat and it was automatic!

a fraction of that would be nice-alot of people i think would take the dsc but can't afford to get the higher priced "package"

thanks jtek

Originally posted by JTek_55
When my wife and I were looking for her SUV we looked at the Nissan Pathfinder before finally buying the Ford SportTrac. As I looked at the different pathfinders I noticed how many different configurations there were. Well, after reading about them I found out that the Pathfinder and the Nissan pickup(forget the name) are the most configurable production cars available. There are something like 200 different combinations you can choose. Now why couldn't Mazda have done just a fraction of what Nissan did? Seems it is possible, even though they are a smaller company(I think)...

Oops, I said pathfinder but I meant to say Xterra... anyway, carry on.

Originally posted by zoom44

see that's some of what i am talking about. in canada, i believe, moonroof and sat nav are listed as seperate options but if a guy wants the nav they force him to get the moon roof too. it's fine if they wany to package things to save money on purchasing parts, but don't list things a seperate when you can't them seperate. also why advertise and let the mags rave about a hi power version of a car at a certain price then not make that product available and if there is one to be had it's loaded with so much stuff that the price has jumped well over what the customer was expecting.


I would like to set the record straight, in Canada the moonroof and nav are not listed separately, the following was taken from the Mazda Canada RX-8 Price Summary dated February 14, 2003.


Model - Code - Model Description - Price (CDN)

T4TF64 - AA00 - 1.3L 6M - $39,595
T4TF64 - AB00 - 1.3L 6M Moonroof - $40,595
T4TF64 - AC00 - 1.3L 6M Moonroof, NAV - $43,595

It may be true that you cannot get the NAV without the moonroof, but they are not listed separately.

Mazda I believe knows they botched a few things, and they seem to be working towards a proper balance.

First off, Mazda dealerships as a whole are quite poor. Most of them are old, and generally they do not seem to have a very knowledgable, or friendly, staff. I believe Mazda has decided to take a new direction with their dealerships, and I've heard about how they are trying to make them a bit more flashy and fun to visit. It will take time, but I would imagine they are looking to re-do their dealerships along the same lines of the VW/Audi nationwide make over about 5 years ago. That is Mazda's biggest problem. Many people look at a certain car, but if they go to a different dealership that treats them right, they'll buy that car. Talked to a woman who complimented me on my RSX Type S a few months back. She was driving a brand new Eclipse and said she had looked at the RSX, and really liked it, but the Acura staff never offered her any assistance, so she walked across the street to the Mitsubishi dealership and bought an Eclipse. I'm sure she is not in the minority. Many people will buy a car based on dealer treatment, be it a GM, Honda, Ford, Mazda, whatever.

Second, Mazda definitely knows it botched it up on the Mazda6. Camry and Accord sell about 20% of their models with the V6, so Mazda planned to do the same. Then, for a majority of those they made automatics. Well, it turns out a good 40% of people wanted the V6, and a higher than expected number of those wanted the manual transmission as well. That is why it is hard as heck to find a V6 manny ANYWHERE, while 4cyl autos pile up on the lot. Mazda was a bit foolish to think that when they make a car that caters to DRIVERS, that the proportion wanting the higher performance engine and manual transmission would be the same as the appliance-like Camry or Accord. They're fixing that as we speak.

Also, Charlie Hughes, Mazda NA president was fired last week out of the blue, and no reason was given. I read a brief article that says that sales last year were probably the reason. But I have suspicion to believe that because the 6 launch came in December, rather than the planned September (causing the 6 to be outshined last fall by the all new Accord), and also the problem with option configuration on the 6 (also way wrong, but quickly fixed), AND not making correct numbers of V6 manuals and costing I would guess a good number of sales were all contributing factors to his firing. It is too bad, as he was quite a *car guy*. I just hope whoever replaces him has the zoom zoom spirit and is not just a bean counter.

Long post, sorry. Hope it clears things up.

Originally posted by ZoomZoom


I would like to set the record straight, in Canada the moonroof and nav are not listed separately, the following was taken from the Mazda Canada RX-8 Price Summary dated February 14, 2003.


Model - Code - Model Description - Price (CDN)

T4TF64 - AA00 - 1.3L 6M - $39,595
T4TF64 - AB00 - 1.3L 6M Moonroof - $40,595
T4TF64 - AC00 - 1.3L 6M Moonroof, NAV - $43,595

It may be true that you cannot get the NAV without the moonroof, but they are not listed separately.

Zoomx2-thanks for setting me straight i will edit my previous post

thanks Jerome for a very well thought out post. you make some excellent points and it wasn't that long;)