I agree that many on this forum know more than I do about FI.
So if someone has a flash for our oem ecm that will run a s.c. well, then that flash will work on all types of FI? Or all type of superchargers not tubo's?
Axial flow is a little different ype of s.c. also---correct?
Is Petit sitting on a goldmine and doesnt know it?
olddumbassdragger

Turbo boost is diff than supercharger boost.

i figured the master would know that

duh


haha.

maybe he is saying that the flash is tuned for only a certain psi.
either way a flash is a flash.

air is air. all the pcm needs to know is what to do with the air it gets

HYMEE!!! Where the hell you been for the last few months? How's the kit coming?

so the Pettit ecm flash for its twinscrew s.c will work well for all rx8 FI installations? or all rx8 S.C. installations?
oscd

so the Pettit ecm flash for its twinscrew s.c will work well for all rx8 FI installations? or all rx8 S.C. installations?
oscd

Well, probably not.
The issue is going to be one you know well - the idle bleed.
A well designed FI system will have all the air that enters the system accounted for utilizing whatever measurement technique that is employed. In the case of the OEM setup, this is the MAF.
Some systems will use a MAP sensor in lieu of the MAF or in conjunction with it.

One of the problems with the Pettit system (and subsequently, the Pettit flash) is that there is a deliberate "leak" to allow the S/C to pass air for idle that the MAF doesn't see. The flash, knowing that this is the case, adds back to the calculation the amount of missing air.

A normal FI installation won't have this "leak", so the flash will over-fuel because it believes there is some 40% more air going by that there actually is.

No, the AWP jet air nozzle doesn't flow nearly as much air as the idle air bleed.
Plus, isn't Cam sending the JAB and the OMP vent to the MAF housing now (another pilfered fix)?
The IAB will flow as much as 2g/sec!

Its in the 60's here today.
I never really got a satisfactory resolution to my questions about the OMP nozzles and boost, other than discovering that my previous engines had bad check valves.
The idle mass is about 4g/sec.
On Jesse's car, the MAF was reading about 2.8g/sec. Pushing it up to 3.9g/sec stabilized the idle (stoich A/F and far less fuel trim), but that amounted to a 40% correction in the airflow table on the EMU.
It probably could have taken another 10%!

We stopped tuning that way at that point because that much unmetered air is unacceptable to me.

How does you "push up" the MAF reading on Jesse's car? I don't know what that entails/means.

He's wired for the EMU, so I just go into the airflow meter map and add to the values - essentially what the flash tuner is doing for Pettit.


The only thing I can think of on the OMP check valves is that they need zero pressure differential to flow properly.

My thought as well.

And I felt bad jacking the Esmeril thread ! ...... heh

yea we need to get this discussion back to where it belongs
oscd

^Since this thing is never going to see the light of day on the RX8, I think this thread is fair game...

I would love to see a new thread about the hose routing in a N/A setup vs a turbo setup vs a supercharger setup. Currently this info seems to be spread out all over the place. Same goes for MAF vs MAP and MAF tube size.

The really good thing about all of this is that we are starting to unleash the true potential of the Renesis...

I totally agree tdiddy---start it up!
oscd

I totally agree tdiddy---start it up!
oscd

why...might as well use this one...heh so at the end of the day we can say that we got something outta this thread...

I would but I need to go shovel some snow. Can anyone else do it?

haha, you guys talk up and up and then everyone backs down.
Pussies.
;p

I would love to see a new thread about the hose routing in a N/A setup vs a turbo setup vs a supercharger setup. Currently this info seems to be spread out all over the place. Same goes for MAF vs MAP and MAF tube size.

The really good thing about all of this is that we are starting to unleash the true potential of the Renesis...

Done:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=2194012

so let me get this straight, all it is is a lil tube to put in the intake line? so could i have the Pettit SuperCharger and your Supercharger at the same time?

so let me get this straight, all it is is a lil tube to put in the intake line? so could i have the Pettit SuperCharger and your Supercharger at the same time?

that is so far from straight, its on the verge of burning down the house at the steel mill during a disco inferno...

that is so far from straight, its on the verge of burning down the house at the steel mill during a disco inferno...

wtf are you doing up so late? being evil??? :lol2:

10 til 4 - i really need to sleep

wtf are you doing up so late? being evil??? :lol2:

err...the concept of late/early is purely a human conceived notion...just like breakfast, lunch, or dinner...

its still all the same for me...

that said...yes...of course I'm being evil...wtf else is there to do?

All,

I have been following this thread from the beginning and I was really excited about this product (waiting very very patiently). I am concerned that is not going to happen with all the negativity I have seen lately. Can some one please confirm if the AFSC is gonna happen? Just a quick note from RP would nice to let us know hes still around and thinking about us.

I am about to get rid of this car due to all the nagging little things that keep popping up. Would be really nice if I could make it so special that I cant afford to get rid of it. This vehicle was going to be a lifetime car for me that I kept in the garage and showed off from time to time.

RP (or whoever can speak to this).... lets us know whats going on or everyone is going to lose interest.

PM RP himself and you'll find that the statements where we say that the project is unlikely to happen are not mere skepticisms and negativity. Rather, these staements are born from having spoken to RP himself and, in some cases, really smart people having helped him along the way only to make certain discoveries.

Now this is odd. What discoveries? What was discovered that made RP possibly shut down the AFSC project? I thought the man was waiting on COBB.

Would you develop a product for sale if there was a high risk that it would not turn a profit?

Considering the choices and costs of FI available today the sales & profit potentials are pretty limited.

It's not that. Well, not only that.

RP has a lot of stuff going on and lets face it the FI market for the rx8 is pretty small and the production of an axial flow s.c. is not exactly easy.
oldsuperchargeddragger

If this were a year ago I think more people would be willing to accept the product not coming to fruition. The things that's so hard to swallow is we all thought the AFSC hardware was complete, just waiting for the final piece of the puzzle in the fuel controller from Cobb. Does this mean that the AFSC will not be developed for the S2000 or any other car? It just seems like an awefully long road for Richard to travel to simply give up at the end. Unless of course there was an inherent flaw or incompatibility with the Rotary he recently discovered, or in fact he learned that Cobb would not be able to deliver.

I think a a statement from Richard is in order. More importantly than money, he had our our faith, and think all of us would like to hear the news, good or bad, straight from the horses mouth. It also would certainly help to consider buying other things from his company in the future.

I have talked to RP about helping with the AFSC S2000 when it comes time.


My S2000 will already have a Hot side Roots supercharger and components installed so it should be an easy fix to modify the brackets and install the AFSC.

Unless of course there was an inherent flaw or incompatibility with the Rotary he recently discovered, or in fact he learned that Cobb would not be able to deliver.

Now you are onto something.........:)

I'm going out on a limb here and tying these two together. If I had to guess I'd say it was the latter since the ECU flashing seems to have a solution.

Never know, last I heard it was making the same amount of power as the petit stage 1 kit

You guys deserve an explanation, so I will try and explain it. When I started this project I had no idea about the rotary. The SC was conceived to go on Honda engines and I assumed that the Ren used about the same amount of air. Well it doesn't. We have stretched the envelope as far as we can. We can not make the blades any longer because you can't get a tool down in between the blades.

It is going to take a bigger case. How that works for the installation remains to be seen. We may have to adjust things a bit. I have designed a compressor .600 bigger in diameter and about .750 longer. It will be mainly for street rods if up to 650 HP. That should be enough air for the rotary. I will not abandon the project because of this. We will finish what we started even knowing there are less sales there.

We have prototyped the master cylinder brace and will be running some right after the first. We will send a couple out for beta tests and then we'll post some pictures.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
OMG, that's not PC I should say "Happy Hollidays", But screw them.

Thank you Richard. Good to hear from you:) I look forward to seeing your AFSC on a allot of cars .. rotary or other wise

Merry Christmas RP

Awesome that you've got that worked out Richard. Looking forward to it. It's always been a beautiful looking piece.

One *Potential* customer right here

My warranty still here so ... take your time on the SC ok ? :)

Thats awesome!!!! Great work!!!

Merry Christmas RP and good Luck with this.
oscd

good to hear from you Richard. Merry Christmas

We have prototyped the master cylinder brace and will be running some right after the first. We will send a couple out for beta tests and then we'll post some pictures.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
OMG, that's not PC I should say "Happy Hollidays", But screw them.It seems the only way now to get a master cylinder brace was to get the Mazdaspeed strut tower bar. I will be looking forward to seeing this.

Thank You for not being P.C.

One *Potential* customer right here

My warranty still here so ... take your time on the SC ok ? :)

Ditto.

RP,

Great to hear from you and I'm still very excited about this piece, its uniqueness and elegance remain a perfect match for the rotary.

That being said, I've been waiting almost 5 years to just own the car, I can wait a little longer for this...

Merry Christmas to all!

AFSC for me and nothing else

i didnt know what an axial flow supercharger was, so i did a little research on axial flow compressors (i assume they work on the same principal) and its pretty sweet. the Messerschmitt Me 262 had an axial flow engine.

if i can convince myself to go fi, this would be awesome.

[QUOTE=kersh4w;2205070]the Messerschmitt Me 262 had an axial flow engine./QUOTE]

And so has just about every jet engine since circa 1960 or so.

Cheers,
Hymee.

[quote=kersh4w;2205070]the Messerschmitt Me 262 had an axial flow engine./QUOTE]

And so has just about every jet engine since circa 1960 or so.

Cheers,
Hymee.I believe you can push that date back to the late 1940's. The original British jet engine designs used a centrifical compressor. The last to use it was the WW II plane the Comet. After seeing captured German aircraft they recognized that the axial flow compressor was superior and began to design there engines with that design. The US was a bit slower to get into the jet age. We didn't have any working until 1945 (the P60 if I remember correctly) and it was slower than conventional propeller driven aircraft.
RP is probably more familiar with the history with his background.

You guys deserve an explanation....
....
....
....
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. OMG, that's not PC I should say "Happy Hollidays", But screw them.

And just like that...he cast the dark brooding clouds away...and his people seeing the sun...almost spontaneously burst into flames...due to not having seen the sun since the mustard famine of 1985...

I am all for religious freedom.:)

Heh...yes we should have a lesson on religious tolerance...I secretly like the intolerance tho...it makes me giggle like a sunday school girl...



PS: Good to hear your still around and kicking Richard...merry x-festi-kwanz-ivus to you too...heh

cant we just call it happy corporatebigbucksfest?

:lol2:

[quote=Hymee;2205168]I believe you can push that date back to the late 1940's. The original British jet engine designs used a centrifical compressor. The last to use it was the WW II plane the Comet. After seeing captured German aircraft they recognized that the axial flow compressor was superior and began to design there engines with that design. The US was a bit slower to get into the jet age. We didn't have any working until 1945 (the P60 if I remember correctly) and it was slower than conventional propeller driven aircraft.
RP is probably more familiar with the history with his background.

I know this thread is all about historical accuracy so I'll offer my limited help. The centrifugal compressor was used as late as 1955 when the Air Force purchased the T-37 (tweet) to be used as an introductory pilot training aircraft. Even though the aircraft was underpowered the engines lasted a while since I was flying them in 2005 and is just being phased out over the past couple of years with the T-6.

Chris

[QUOTE=alnielsen;2205212]

I know this thread is all about historical accuracy so I'll offer my limited help. The centrifugal compressor was used as late as 1955 when the Air Force purchased the T-37 (tweet) to be used as an introductory pilot training aircraft. Even though the aircraft was underpowered the engines lasted a while since I was flying them in 2005 and is just being phased out over the past couple of years with the T-6.

Chris

hey,

your avatar is spooky.......:lol:

beers :beer:

Soo...

How did the beta tests go? ;)

I for one am so ready for this SC to come out... just found this post today and read all 218 pages... Still think that THIS SC is the FI kit that I want. Love the idea of it!! Cant wait for more info. Good luck RP on the beta tests... hope everything works out good. cant wait for some dyno figures, and more pics of install. Cant say enough about this. Absolutely fascinating... ugh whered my spell checking thing go?? lol

The Rx-8 is here to stay, and this compressor is clearly better than everything on the market. Be patient, the rewards will just come a little later, they'll come for sure.
________
White Widow Seeds (http://marijuanaseeds.org/)

praying this comes out before the 16x, otherwise we may be waiting even longer?

abbid: you're STILL hanging onto hope that this will come out???? :icon_no2:

abbid: you're STILL hanging onto hope that this will come out???? :icon_no2:

Jedi, "Your lack of faith disturbs me" Can you feel the pressure on your neck?
And remember my son works with Darth Vader.

Jedi, "Your lack of faith disturbs me" Can you feel the pressure on your neck?
And remember my son works with Darth Vader.

:eek:

abbid: you're STILL hanging onto hope that this will come out???? :icon_no2:


rp said,,

take that bitch!!!!!:rant:

beers :beer:

Jedi, "Your lack of faith disturbs me" Can you feel the pressure on your neck?
And remember my son works with Darth Vader.

http://www.catwack.com/pics/591.jpg

There is still hope

I can't say that I understand why, but undersizing the compressor is a common mistake that people with a lot of piston engine experience make with the rotary. The calculations just don't work the same, even when you use 2.6 as the engine size.

Nucleus

I understand why. 2.6 is the correct "displacement" per 2 crank revolutions, aka a 4-stroke piston engine.

It is just the RE uses more air to make the same power as a piston engine. That is why it is "less efficient". But is it smaller and has lots of other nice things - that is why we love 'em so much.:love:

Cheers,
Hymee.

I suppose most piston guys are happy to spend their days on Mustangs and small block Chevy's. And never need to look past the masses of V8 customers. Only a special few ever make the journey down the path less traveled to the world of Wankel.

As long as a kit comes out that I like I'd like to have a boosted wankel :)

I try to have a healthy appreciation for both, and understand their strengths and weaknesses.

On a social level, piston "people" and rotary "people"(and technicians) often segregate themselves from one another and sometimes have little experience with the other technology. Rather sad but that's how it goes.

Perhaps put another way; rotary people tend to understand the differences between the engines but piston people haven't typically taken the time to understand the differences.

Pistoners are from Mars, Rotarians are from Uranus.

Now it is getting smelly. Why did you have to bring uranus into the room!

After seeing captured German aircraft they recognized that the axial flow compressor was superior and began to design there engines with that design.

Actually some believed in the merits of an axial flow compressor design back in 1903 already:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=n8BTAAAAEBAJ&dq=892206

http://www.catwack.com/pics/591.jpg

I can feel it.

I believe one of the limiting factors back then was materials and manufacturing.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hey there you blogbastard did you get your ugly shoes back yet?

Sorry you can't use my new "Brake Brace" because you drive on the wrong side.
Do you think the RH and LH cars are exactly mirror image?
If they are we could mirror image the part. But I think there may be some differences because the pedals are still on the same side.
How can we tell?

Hi Richard. Did you say you have a brake master cylinder brace available? Is there a thread on this? I checked your website and didn't see the product listed. I'd definitely be interested in one that would bolt directly to the OEM strut tower brace or shock tower itself.

Hi Richard. Did you say you have a brake master cylinder brace available? Is there a thread on this? I checked your website and didn't see the product listed. I'd definitely be interested in one that would bolt directly to the OEM strut tower brace or shock tower itself.


Yes, I will start a thread next week when I have some pictures ready. A few are off the machines now and ready to go to beta testing. The rest will go out for anodizing. So we should be selling them in a week to 10 days.

You don't even have a shifter yet! That is supposed to be the first mod.:rant:

Yeah I know. Priorities. My shifter works fine while my brake master cylinder is about as rigid as latex.

Hey there you blogbastard did you get your ugly shoes back yet?

Sorry you can't use my new "Brake Brace" because you drive on the wrong side.
Do you think the RH and LH cars are exactly mirror image?
If they are we could mirror image the part. But I think there may be some differences because the pedals are still on the same side.
How can we tell?

Yeah, you 40,000 RPM old-bastard-mate. I got them the other day. Nice. Been wearing them as well.

What do you mean the pedals ae on the same side? Well, they are the same relative to each other, but yes, the opposite side.

Solution 1 - you send me one, I'll cut and shut it to fit.
Solution 2 - you send me a drawing showing my what dimensions you need, then you send me one.
Solution 3 - you send me a drawing and we make one ourselves - under licence of course!

Now let me get on with doing the Tuning and reflashing software. I'm guessing you'll still be after a copy?

I got photo's of the 40,000 event - well just prior...

Cheers,
Hymee.

I'll send you a drawing'
48,000, at least get it right.:spank:

Mr. Richard Paul,

Are you still planning to use the AccessPORT from CobbTuning for your engine management for the supercharger?

I'll send you a drawing'
48,000, at least get it right.:spank:

48,000 Pardons then!

Cheers,
Hymee.

Mr. Richard Paul,

Are you still planning to use the AccessPORT from CobbTuning for your engine management for the supercharger?

Not if I have any say in it. :icon_no2: Now - back to tuning work I go...

Cheers,
Hymee.

Not if I have any say in it. :icon_no2: Now - back to tuning work I go...

Cheers,
Hymee.

Really, are you developing you own engine management software/hardware?

Really, are you developing you own engine management software/hardware?

Major New Product Announcements: Pre-release info
(http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=135829)

Major New Product Announcements: Pre-release info
(http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=135829)

Yeah, now I do remember reading that thread, I just forgot about it. If this is what gets the supercharger to market, then it is a good thing.

And its an even better thing if it helps me get my supercharger to market :)

Hymlee you may want to think about the oem fuel delivery system. It is not unusual for our oem fuel pump to lose 5-7 lbs of pressure in the higher rpm areas. There seems to be, for some, a lot of correlation between pre mixing and fuel pump problems. Not for others, which further confuses the issue. BUT , the all in one wonder fuel pump assembly may be a trouble spot. So folks need to be sure before they go and tune something that their fuel delivery system is adequete. Or they may end up trying to put the "blame" were it doent belong when they go lean.
olddragger

Hymlee you may want to think about the oem fuel delivery system. It is not unusual for our oem fuel pump to lose 5-7 lbs of pressure in the higher rpm areas. There seems to be, for some, a lot of correlation between pre mixing and fuel pump problems. Not for others, which further confuses the issue. BUT , the all in one wonder fuel pump assembly may be a trouble spot. So folks need to be sure before they go and tune something that their fuel delivery system is adequete. Or they may end up trying to put the "blame" were it doent belong when they go lean.
olddragger

Fortunately, it takes a really long swing in fuel rail pressure to have an effect on actual delivery mass.
A 5 - 7 PSI drop in line pressure (from the nominal pressure), amounts to less than 2% of a drop in actual delivery.
You have to get really low before it gets to be a big issue - especially if you are running with an appropriate amount of "padding" in your target AFRs.

You how some folks dont like padding:)
Good info though-- thanks
olddragger

Well I guess there is nothing left for me to say. :soapbox:

You how some folks dont like padding:)


You have to have some padding on a street vehicle.
A bad tank of gas, a really hot, dry day, some anomaly in your driving or just plain bad luck - the effects of which could destroy your motor - can be completely ameliorated by just and extra 0.5:1 in your A/F and 2° of timing, which have a negligible effect on power, if any at all.
I found almost no change in power going from 11.1:1 to 10.8:1.
Of course, if you want to drive around at 12.7:1, that's your business.
That is not something that can be done here in a Phoenix Summer in an RX-8 on 11 PSI of boost.

Oh I am with you totally--i like a conservative tune-- and whatever protection you can get from those unknowns that do occur. i was speaking about others that may like to get closer to the edge--you know they are out there.
olddragger

Glad to see the project is still on course, more or less. I’ll be very interested to see the final product.

Check out Richard's new product:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=2283640#post2283640

Hymlee you may want to think about the oem fuel delivery system. It is not unusual for our oem fuel pump to lose 5-7 lbs of pressure in the higher rpm areas. There seems to be, for some, a lot of correlation between pre mixing and fuel pump problems. Not for others, which further confuses the issue. BUT , the all in one wonder fuel pump assembly may be a trouble spot. So folks need to be sure before they go and tune something that their fuel delivery system is adequete. Or they may end up trying to put the "blame" were it doent belong when they go lean.
olddragger

OD, did you ever get a chance to open up that old Fuel Pump I sent you?

As soon as I get the T shaped nuts run and the bodys anodized they will be ready for sale. As for different strut bars you will have to look yourselves. On the stock bar you have to drill with a 1 3/8 holesaw the space for the brace to fit through. It's no big deal. On others just see if they stick up over an inch because that is what I've allowed for.
It attaches to ewo of the three shock/spring studs. It does not use the brace studs.
As to the nuts on my brace I don't run a brace. That's how impotant they are. Now a 4 way brace might be worth something. It's just that the only place to fasten is those tiny little studs on the firewall.


This is on the wrong thread it should be on the brake brace one. I"ll move it later.

To quote an old forumer who I haven't seen for a while...

"Pics Please"

Cheers,
Hymee.

To quote an old forumer who I haven't seen for a while...

"Pics Please"

Cheers,
Hymee.


Look on the brake brace thread youblindbastard.

Linky Please, you oldungeekybastard. LOL

Cheers,
Hymee.

Look on the brake brace thread youblindbastard.


http://www.catwack.com/pics/706.jpg


heh...

It's just above here on MM pist:spank:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.ph...40#post2283640

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=2283640#post2283640

fixed...

http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html


You have to go foe 2 min to satisfy the Air Force pilots exam

http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html


You have to go foe 2 min to satisfy the Air Force pilots exam

Funny, I've never heard anyone mention this. Sounds like an urban legend to me.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html


You have to go foe 2 min to satisfy the Air Force pilots exam

16.7 seconds.. 2 minutes is insane, does the speed keep going up?

Funny, I've never heard anyone mention this. Sounds like an urban legend to me.



That'll teach me to believe an ex girlfreind. :banghead:
She can only do 15 sec anyway.

That'll teach me to believe an ex girlfreind. :banghead:
She can only do 15 sec anyway.

24.46sec

Leave it to RP to post the most fun internet game yet to grace the forums! Its going to be a good day at work :lol:

I seem to be stuck at 40 seconds or so.

That'll teach me to believe an ex girlfreind. :banghead:
She can only do 15 sec anyway.

Yeah, the Air Force decides if people can fly or not by putting them in planes... not by having them move a square around.

Well, I have a beta version of the Cobb Tuning AccessPORT, and I can re-flash my ECU at will. Maybe a beta of the AxialFlow Supercharger won't be far behind.

From earlier posts I think there is more to be done than just hook up an Accessport to the AxailFlow S/C. The entire unit needs a redesign/re-fab speced to the high flow char. of the rotary.

This project is still on the books but I expect RP to focus on other jobs that may be closer to production than this one for awhile.

Just my $.02

I guess many haven't yet figured out that tuning wasn't/isn't the issue with the Axial Flow.:dunno:

I have no idea who your talking too...

C.H.R. => Me
:slap:


:p:

I guess many haven't yet figured out that tuning wasn't/isn't the issue with the Axial Flow.:dunno:

I understand that tuning is not the only issue but at one point it was an issue, and I dont think we ever heard from RP that he had actually found an ECU management system that he was happy with.

From earlier posts I think there is more to be done than just hook up an Accessport to the AxailFlow S/C. The entire unit needs a redesign/re-fab speced to the high flow char. of the rotary.

This project is still on the books but I expect RP to focus on other jobs that may be closer to production than this one for awhile.

Just my $.02

I would hope that if RP decides not to work on the supercharger "for awhile" that he would let us know. There seem to be a number of people that only want this supercharger on their car.

Can somebody explain why the Axial Flow Supercharger will not be produced?

Note- Well, thank goodness Hymee seems like he might get his kit out one day.

CRH, makes it seems like it was not producing enough HP or didn't work. I thought they had this thing on a test car, dynoed, etc...

I was thinking it was waiting for the Cobb AP to come out. Now that the Cobb AP is about to be released, what's the hold up?

Thanks CRH.

I looked back at the previous posts also, because there was a time period that I missed some important info.

So, it appeared RP miscalculated the amount of air needed to create power when designing the AFSC, because he was basing his design assumptions off of piston engines.

The present AFSC does not develop boost until around 6,000 RPMs.
It appears an attempt was made to see if the problem could be resolved by tuning the ECU. Which was the hype concerning the Cobb AP was all about. But, this appeared to fail.

It was then apparent that a redesign for a new AFSC would have to be done to meet Rotary engine specifications. However, he already has invested a tremendous amount of money and time in the "old" AFSC. It also seemed it would be very difficult to redesign a new AFSC to the operating parameters of a rotary engine.

I think that is it. Sad though... Well now their is only 1 other "SuperCharged Rotary Jedi" left. Hymee.... keep fighting the good fight.

It does seems like he might try to see if he can get the present AFSC to work in a piston engine. There was interest in getting it to work in a Honda. However the issue of cost and time invested comes back into the picture.

RIP Rotary AFSC. Note- May you find a good home in a piston engine one day.

I wanna put an AFSC on an LS1 /LS2 :)

So should those of us that have been waiting for this supercharger be looking at other options at this time? I would really like to hear from RP whether or not it will be release and maybe a timeframe.

The only thing that has surrounded the AFSC project as much as mystery and intrigue is schrapnel.

Haha, let's not get into that debate again :lol2:

i remember somewhere that a car was custom built with an axial flow charger in the 80's. The name Chamberlain Searcher comes to mind. It has the AF blower and peak hp is 712 @ 6750 rpm. I don't know at which rpm the boost starts.


Eric

Thanks Charles for the explanation. It's been an interesting ride along the AFSC highway and I wish Richard the best of luck. Much better to have some understanding of the project's limits.

I still can't forget the brief ride I had in Pettit's prototype charged 8. What fun.

I wish Richard would just come on here and say"Sorry folks, this ain't going to happen" and close this thread. Leaving it open like this leaves people with hope. I know I have been a big supporter of this supercharger and have read every post here.

I wish Richard would just come on here and say"Sorry folks, this ain't going to happen" and close this thread. Leaving it open like this leaves people with hope. I know I have been a big supporter of this supercharger and have read every post here.

I completely agree.

CRH, "A little knowlage is a dangerous thing" wes carved in a granite arch at some school I went to once.
You are wrong on almost everthing. First of all I have not given up on the Rx8. Next I never said that I was looking for an engine with less rpm range. That doesn't even make sense.
No matter what is on you have to limit it to the engine red line, so the rest is relivent.
I did say that jet engines have an advantage in their limited usage of revs but that just ment that my research was harder. I had to go where others didn't.
That doesn't mean it can't be done. There are ways to bend the off design around in the operating range.
First of all you notice that we don't have the pressure ratio per stage of a gas turbine. That is because we need that higher operating range so we sacrifice utilization of the axial volocity. The camber and AOA plus solidity are factors also. There are so many facets to the axial flow equations that it really can't be understood without background. Not to insult anyone but to understand it you'd have to have worked with aerodynamics in a serious way.
This is even harder than a wing to design. In this case you have to throw in the varying inlet pressure and positive displacement negative discharge.
So what's the problem? I simply didn't know how inefficient the rotary was when I started this.

Something just came up and I have to leave. I'll come back and finish this tonight.

thanks Richard- and id still like one in my car.

good to know! ...my kids' college fund will be untouched until then LOL

Mr. Paul? Who is that? You mean Richard?

there are some cool pictures on the website of what looks like a kit. what else has to be done from there? tuning?

Yup we used 3-D Computational Fluid Dynamics packages as well a experimentation proven factors when doing basic 2-d work for the design concepts at Pratt & Whitney. The designs are very complex.

Richard when I saw your design the biggest difference I saw from your design and most of the compressors I've seen is yours only uses the airfoils for compression. Most of the large axial compressors use a converging nozzle as well through the compressor stages. It gives you more compression with less stages and also allows you to make shorter, stouter airfoils as the pressure rises so they are stiffer. Any reason you didn't decide to use this?

Where was I?
First off I meant no disparage to you Ray, I have always admired your careful planning and excellent documentation of your work. You're a thinker and I've said in the past I like your work.

Next what I was saying is that we originally designed this compressor for the Honda S2000. When we decided to do the 8 instead we had no idea how inefficient the rotory was and it needed much more air. So we went along increasing the blade legnth in the same envelope instead of running new numbers for a clean design. Everyone has done this, stubbornly insisting it can be made to work. It's the hot rodders mentality, just keep putting more and more of everything and be shocked when the crank falls out.

Long story short, after making the blades longer and the base smaller it became unstable with the clearances we wanted to run. When finally someone here ran some numbers we found 10,000 G's of acceleration on the damn thing. With this material and as light as it has to be, it will not work.

So in order to get less G's and more blade it has to get bigger in diameter.
This takes new tooling and money and time. That's where we are at and why it takes so so long. To get where we are took a lot of compressors and a lot of other parts, all prototype but that's how you learn. We shall never get a return on the Rx8 investment but it's been fun. We will finish it because we are stupid.



Shaunv, We do use defusion in our designs. You may not be able to see because it is a very small amount. That is because our compression ratio is small compared to regular gas turbines. That goes back to what I said before about having to give up alot in order to operate off design so much. You could make as much pressure in one stage as we do in four. But you would have stalls in a hundred places on a daily drive. I'm not going to give away 20 years of work to tell you how and why. If you look closly at a rotor you can see the last blade compared to the first is shorter and has different geometry. All the stages use different geometry including rotor to stator. That is 8 different programs per 4 stage blower.

Worse then that is we do it by hand not having the expensive programs we would like to have. I do have a good calculator and put my sliderule in a draw.
How many of you guys have seen a sliderule? It's kinda like a 45 record or an 8 track.:banghead:

So everybody buy a master cylinder brace to help fund the R&D on the supercharger!!

How many of you guys have seen a sliderule?

Mine are in my parents basement, along with my t- frame, triangles, protractors, etc. I think there are several old erasers, (with nothing left on them), in the box also.

:uhh:

Those were the days for sure...

Richard,

I am so dissapointed. All this time I thought you did all the math in your head. Then I find out you sold out to a slide rule...

LOL.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers,
Hymee.

How many of you guys have seen a sliderule?

Seen, like in a museum? :lol2:

I kid...

How many of you guys have seen a sliderule? It's kinda like a 45 record or an 8 track.:banghead:

So everybody buy a master cylinder brace to help fund the R&D on the supercharger!!

Ok, I do not know where my slide rule is anymore. When I went to high school and early college, you could tell the real geeks because they spent several hundred dollars for a calculator. My money went into BB Chevy parts.

As for the brace, I hope my bit of funding helps.

We want to see a supercharger as unique as the rotary is!

Mine are in my parents basement, along with my t- frame, triangles, protractors, etc. I think there are several old erasers, (with nothing left on them), in the box also.

:uhh:

Those were the days for sure...They are in my basement also. I would rather us a calculator. It has greater precision, but that isn't usually necessary. They got us to the moon with a slide rule.

the bezel on my watch has one!

Wonder how many people here know what AOA is...

Ah, compressor stalls - we wouldn't want the AFSC to go the way of the TF30 in the F-14!

Angle of Attack?

You win a prize! :)

The prize being the honor of the first person to answer... :)

I have very first hand experience at the problems with close tolerance, don't I Richard? :D

Cheers,
Hymee.

I will still be amazed if Richard ever pulls this off...

i work with large gas turbines that cost $30million and despite them having compressor blowoffs, variable inlet blades, and a host of other protection devices - they pretty much will self destruct with stalls and surges as soon as speed or air flow change unexpectedly

I'd love to see all the issues get worked out but it's basically back at square one (or maybe 2...) and this thread was started in May 2004. That's almost 4 years to get back to the start. I hope it progresses lightyears faster than it did to this point.

Call him Richard "Pratt & Whitney" Paul, and his son Rolls Royce. :)

Yes - it is all pretty amazing and complex. I have felt the "steady state" workings of these units. Quite impressive.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Come back in another 5000 posts huh?

Seriously though, best of luck with the endeavor, hope it works out..

I will still be amazed if Richard ever pulls this off...

i work with large gas turbines that cost $30million and despite them having compressor blowoffs, variable inlet blades, and a host of other protection devices - they pretty much will self destruct with stalls and surges as soon as speed or air flow change unexpectedly

Yeah, I've got a friend that is an engineer at Pratt and Whitney, I think she's in a division of their aerospace that specifically deals with enhancing harmonics...or something like that. I showed her the thread about two years ago, and she commented as much about the complications involved, but also that since she didn't know the full scope that she couldn't possibly give a first blush verdict. Either way, she was anxious to know how it would turn out and still asks every once in a while.

too bad superchargers are useless in comparison to turbos!!




(instant 10 more pages)

^^ Good job. Got Nomex?

too bad superchargers are useless in comparison to turbos!!




(instant 10 more pages)
just another idiot to add to my ignor list.

all you guys saying it won't work, AFSC's were a REAL product in the 50's and 60's go google the latham supercharger. Most of the ones that still exist still work. they've never blown themselves up.

all you guys saying it won't work, AFSC's were a REAL product in the 50's and 60's go google the latham supercharger. Most of the ones that still exist still work. they've never blown themselves up.

I never said it wouldn't work, nor did my friend. She was curious to see how efficient the sc could be made given cost parameters, and at what ratio the sc delivers cfm, etc...

just another idiot to add to my ignor list.

For me to annoy Phil that is all I have to say?!?!?!?!? :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :) :) :)

For me to annoy Phil that is all I have to say?!?!?!?!? :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :) :) :)
No, with you it would take a little more as I give latitude to Canuks. Growing up in the great socialist state has to be difficult :uhh: :), your not a die-hard turbo fanboi with 49 posts that thinks superchargers have no place and you seem to pay attention to the facts.

actually, I like superchargers, the turbo route just seems to be cheaper and you get more torque with a turbo.

what advantages do you have with your supercharger?

actually, I like superchargers, the turbo route just seems to be cheaper and you get more torque with a turbo.

what advantages do you have with your supercharger?

Start at page 1 :)

actually, I like superchargers, the turbo route just seems to be cheaper and you get more torque with a turbo.

what advantages do you have with your supercharger?

Never said I had advantages, just my preference. My past experience with turbos is not good. OK, I had not yet added you to my ignore list and now I can leave that spot exclusively to another.

AWWWW!! BHR gives away better prizes than that when conducting trivia.:)

Well I am sure that MDW wouldn’t mind if you upstaged a bit and awarded a better prize to whatever gifted individual got the question right. lol

Yes, I can make up questions and Ray can award prizes. Especially if I get to win prizes for my own questions :)

AOA=title for one of MM's avitars and stands for "ass to ass"

"Turbo"= short for Turbosupercharger. Turbosupercharger is the correct term.:spank:

Now we can stop arguing. If you want to learn, do what the man said read the first 5 or 6 pages of this thread.

AOA=title for one of MM's avitars and stands for "ass to ass"

"Turbo"= short for Turbosupercharger. Turbosupercharger is the correct term.:spank:

Now we can stop arguing. If you want to learn, do what the man said read the first 5 or 6 pages of this thread.

I saw some AoA recently...requiem for a dream...only movie to leave me with that not so fresh feeling...and at the same time really makes me want to watch infomercials...

what about axial flow turbo chargers? Like a side-by-side kind of design with gears? :)

I actually have learned some interesting info about the effects of turbos vs superchargers on the engine itself and it is only unique to the Renesis. I'm not going to get into it as it'll start a debate and I'm not even going to say which one it may or may not favor. I need to do more research into the topic but it was interesting to say the least.

I actually have learned some interesting info about the effects of turbos vs superchargers on the engine itself and it is only unique to the Renesis. I'm not going to get into it as it'll start a debate and I'm not even going to say which one it may or may not favor. I need to do more research into the topic but it was interesting to say the least.

Turbos...due to the high amount of exhaust energy available in the system which could be utilized...

I even read a tech document that even the author exclaimed "turbos and rotaries were made for each other"...

;)

what about axial flow turbo chargers? Like a side-by-side kind of design with gears? :)

Better still, ditch the gears, and put them on a common shaft...

And all of a sudden we've invented a gas turbine / jet engine :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

I actually have learned some interesting info about the effects of turbos vs superchargers on the engine itself and it is only unique to the Renesis. I'm not going to get into it as it'll start a debate and I'm not even going to say which one it may or may not favor. I need to do more research into the topic but it was interesting to say the least.

Aw C'mon Fred. That is a bit of a strip-tease isn't it?

Cheers,
Hymee.

im calling him in like 2 minutes to find out what hes on about:)

OMGZ Jet Engines!?!?!?!?!?

im calling him in like 2 minutes to find out what hes on about:)

Cool. Then you can call me after that... I'm up :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

"Drunk" pissed, or "pissed-off" pissed??

Neither actually. Just working on a pet project at 5:25 am - in your future :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

im calling him in like 2 minutes to find out what hes on about:)

Cool. Then you can call me after that... I'm up :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

What's funny is that he's going to say the same thing I have...OOOOOOOooooOOooOOooOOOOoOoOOooooo

Aussie "pissed" was what I meant.:)

I think we are having the "pissed" conversation in another thread...apparently kiwis are also fond of using the "bald as a badger" line..."pissed as a newt" still makes no sense however...

[QUOTE=eviltwinkie;2335451]...apparently kiwis are also fond of using the "bald as a badger" line..QUOTE]

but not in the same thread that CRH is posting in :lol:

What's funny is that he's going to say the same thing I have...OOOOOOOooooOOooOOooOOOOoOoOOooooo

He said unique to the Renesis though, not just all rotaries. I'm thinking it has something to do with the backpressure created by turbos and the side exhaust ports.

Is that close??

or maybe it's not the backpressure, but the heat being generated from the turbo that could cause the flat housings to swell and possibly pinch the rotor a little?

Who's got the waterjacketed turbo manifolds?!?!

The Renesis has no inlet/outlet overlap.

With an overlap, a supercharger can displace the remaining burnt gases with fresh gases in the combustion chamber relatively easily (increasing volumetric efficiency), since it works against little backpressure (as opposed to the compressor wheel of a turbo, which works against a relatively high backpressure).

no, mine's a way better answer.

He said unique to the Renesis though, not just all rotaries. I'm thinking it has something to do with the backpressure created by turbos and the side exhaust ports.

Is that close??

or maybe it's not the backpressure, but the heat being generated from the turbo that could cause the flat housings to swell and possibly pinch the rotor a little?

Who's got the waterjacketed turbo manifolds?!?!

The whole...a turbo mounted close to the exhaust ports increases the residual heat in that area which then degrades* the area over time until it causes a total failure???

degrade - warping, missing material, dishing, general craptacular heat related stuff...

yeah, that whole bit, there are ways of dealing with it that I'm not as knowledgeable on as of yet, but there are ways.

yeah, that whole bit, there are ways of dealing with it that I'm not as knowledgeable on as of yet, but there are ways.

Lots of ways...if you are really concerned about it...move your snail away...if your REALLY concerned about it...mount it far out back...roto-rocks style...

no, mine's a way better answer.

I didn't give an answer I just stated facts.

He said unique to the Renesis though, not just all rotaries. I'm thinking it has something to do with the backpressure created by turbos and the side exhaust ports.

Is that close??

or maybe it's not the backpressure, but the heat being generated from the turbo that could cause the flat housings to swell and possibly pinch the rotor a little?

Who's got the waterjacketed turbo manifolds?!?!

There's more unique to the Renesis than just the location of the exhaust ports.

There's more unique to the Renesis than just the location of the exhaust ports.

comon RG - spill it ......

There's more unique to the Renesis than just the location of the exhaust ports.
I've got my popcorn and diet coke - this is turning into something really interesting - keep it up.

If no one has figured it out by Sevenstock, I'll think about spilling it then.

I know what it is, wee!!

Whatever happened to caring and sharing :)

There's more unique to the Renesis than just the location of the exhaust ports.

the flat housing is iron so it holds more heat?

I'll know soon enough anyhow :evil_laug

the flat housing is iron so it holds more heat?

I'll know soon enough anyhow :evil_laug

The front/middle/end plates have been iron way before the Renesis.

Cheers,
Hymee.

The front/middle/end plates have been iron way before the Renesis.

Cheers,
Hymee.

right, but they've never had exhaust running through them.

right, but they've never had exhaust running through them.

OK. I see where you were coming from. I'm keen to see where all this heads.

Cheers,
Hymee.

The whole...a turbo mounted close to the exhaust ports increases the residual heat in that area which then degrades* the area over time until it causes a total failure???

degrade - warping, missing material, dishing, general craptacular heat related stuff...

Now this is a student. Heat is a mother.... when its in the wrong place.

Lots of ways...if you are really concerned about it...move your snail away...if your REALLY concerned about it...mount it far out back...roto-rocks style...

Also, why I keep an eye on his remote turbo project. Too bad about his engine though....

If no one has figured it out by Sevenstock, I'll think about spilling it then.

:Kill1: i'll ask again - in the nicest possible way :Kill1:

If no one has figured it out by Sevenstock, I'll think about spilling it then.

SS is a long time from now so if you have information that may help people in making an informed decision about what to do and what not to do to their engine, please share it.

Now that the reflashers are available more and more people are going to be trying FI. If there is possibly an issue with a certain form of FI on the Renesis that you know about, please share that information so that people can utilize it in their decision making process.

I wouldn't want someone to buy a turbo kit this summer only to find out that there is a design issue with using turbos on the Renesis. This is only an example but hopefully you get the point. I know your a good guy and hopefully you will spill the beans for the good of all 8 owners. Thanks!

If it was THAT scandalous I am sure Fred would have expressed his opinion on it already.

I know that, but... And why you always talking about scandals. :)
I'm just asking for information that could help people make a more informed decision. Information is key and you agree that there should be no secrets. How is this any different?

There are plenty of people driving around in turbo RX-8s right now, so it's not that big of a deal.

I have reason to believe there is something to be investigated with forced induction. As of right now it is an issue that has been seen with one type of system but not another. However it is way too soon to say that it is exclusively caused by one such system. There are far too many variables out there that could have effected the results for anyone to truly say that X system is safe by Y system isn't. It's not anything that 99% of the people need to worry about anyways. It's just an issue that may or may not pop up on very high horsepower engines. The other scenario is that this one occurrance was a fluke and won't happen again. It's not worth me getting into at this time because trying to draw conclusions from a one time occurance based on the limited amount of known information is about as dumb as trying to say we are warming the planet due to higher CO2 concentrations. A true accurate correlation can't be drawn at this time and even if one could, most people will never need to worry about it. It's nothing to panic about which is why the info can wait until SS if it hasn't already gotten out there. Basically we need to see if this happens again.

What happened?

I have reason to believe there is something to be investigated with forced induction. As of right now it is an issue that has been seen with one type of system but not another. However it is way too soon to say that it is exclusively caused by one such system. There are far too many variables out there that could have effected the results for anyone to truly say that X system is safe by Y system isn't. It's not anything that 99% of the people need to worry about anyways. It's just an issue that may or may not pop up on very high horsepower engines. The other scenario is that this one occurrance was a fluke and won't happen again. It's not worth me getting into at this time because trying to draw conclusions from a one time occurance based on the limited amount of known information is about as dumb as trying to say we are warming the planet due to higher CO2 concentrations. A true accurate correlation can't be drawn at this time and even if one could, most people will never need to worry about it. It's nothing to panic about which is why the info can wait until SS if it hasn't already gotten out there. Basically we need to see if this happens again.


Assuming this has to do with the "overheated" exhaust ports, it's possible that it could have been a tuning issue that caused excessively high EGTs, right?

Here's a small hint. The Renesis rotors are wider than the 13B rotors. This isn't really a topic that needs to go any farther in an Axialflow thread anyways. A new thread could be started that could be based on speculation as it's not proven that there is in fact truly an issue. It could be a limited one time thing.

Well, I vote RG starts a new topic. The first thing that comes up is how effective would heat shields or heat jackets be to counter the heat problem with turbo and decreased engine life span. Then there is the emissions and cat killer issues with them.

uh, who runs cats with turbos?

uh, who runs cats with turbos?

Every production car built that has a turbo...

Cheers,
Hymee.

i meant rx8s...

Here's a small hint. The Renesis rotors are wider than the 13B rotors. This isn't really a topic that needs to go any farther in an Axialflow thread anyways. A new thread could be started that could be based on speculation as it's not proven that there is in fact truly an issue. It could be a limited one time thing.

Are you talking about how the oil metering pump functions when it sees positive pressure instead of vacuum?

This has always freaked me out.

I'm not going to clog up this thread with another topic anymore. It's got enough off topic pages already.

Happy Easter, everybody ~

Are you talking about how the oil metering pump functions when it sees positive pressure instead of vacuum?

This has always freaked me out.

The MOP is positive displacement. I won't care if it sees either positive or negative pressure.

No. A fuel injector will deliver flow according to the differential pressure across it. It has a fixed pressure on one side. If the pressure on the other side increases/decreases, the differential pressure decreases/increases and the flow will decrease/increase.

The MOP is a piston pump, analogous to the operation of a crank, connecting rod, and piston/cylinder arrangement with the crank rotated regardless of the pressure in the cylinder. If the piston gulps in some oil on the intake stroke, it will expel the same oil on the discharge. The pressure reached depends on the resistance. If the discharge is blocked, the pressure will reach very high levels, and something will either break, or the oil will be forced through the piston/cylinder clearances.

Yes.

With regard to the oil nozzles (I assume these are your atmospheric vent(s)), see the fourth bullet under 'Operation' in the attached file. I think I know this pump pretty well, but I can't understand their reasoning as to why these nozzles are required.

Given that air will be drawn in, then the pickup point makes sense. The question is - why are nozzles required at all since the only source of oil is the pump, and a vacuum on its outlet will not affect the oil flow - at least in principle.

And this may be the answer - reality that is. For example
- the piston diameters are very small, making their circumference to cross-sectional areas relatively large, so the area available for leakage is relatively large relative the volume of fluid pumped.
- the pistons are not equipped with rings or any such leakage reducing elements.
- over time, clearances will increase with wear.

The pump flow is the product of engine speed and some function of the step position of the cam that controls the piston stroke length (actually the pistons are stationary, the cylinders move). Maybe this summer I'll hook up my 'chopstick' device and determine this function, but for the moment let us assume the oil requirement at idle is very small. Also consider being stuck in traffic for several hours on a blazing hot summer afternoon with 100,000 miles on the engine.

The idling would pull a high vacuum on the pump outlet, and the clearances and low oil viscosity may be such that hours of operation could result in considerable oil being pulled through the pump, even though the PCM may dictate that very little oil actually be pumped. The by-pass in the nozzles removes this vacuum pull. It's only a guess. In any event, whatever Mazda's reasoning, I have read in other posts that the check valves in the nozzles frequently stop working.

I came here to see if there is any updates. I just read through a bunch of pages that are not about the topic. So,...I geuss no updates?

no real update other then to say that Richard is using the SC on some big block cars and has vowed to finish this project. He needs to focus on other pending (**cough cough money making **cough cough**) projects before he returns to this guy.

I knew it had something to do with the oil metering system! Even if all that stuff about the atmospheric bypass and whatnot makes me go a little cross-eyed. I thought Fred said in another thread (jesus, what a tongue-twister) that the location of the oil contacting the rotors promotes carbon lock and apex seal failure, and more oil needs to hit the center of the seal and less on the sides. That certainly goes along with his comment about the 13B-MSP rotors being wider than previous 13B's.

Back on freq, what Richard really needs to do is make a bigger blower and he'd be fine. If he sized it for a 2.6l and not a 1.3l he'd have a lot easier time of it.

i meant rx8s...

I do :)

I do :)

well, :nono:

slow spool, no cool.... :evil_laug

why dont we all just do the MOONWALK and dance to the motherfukin BEAT! WoooT!

I hate you, you obnoxious little 12 year old, take your adderall and get off the computer.

What the filthy rich hot rodders drove in the '60s...

Latham axial flow on engine AND rocket fuel fed turbine on axle...

http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=SC0508-65922
.
.

Latham supercharger sounds much better than Axial Flow supercharger. What do you think ?

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/NVDenali/threadwontdie.jpg

Really do wonder what this thing would sound like in combination with the rotary. Gl with the research/process, can't wait to see it in action!

I've heard it. :)

I drive it everyday. I'm "beta" testing the kit.

Sounds like a song your singing down the Suwanee River!

I drive it everyday. I'm "beta" testing the kit.

and you know people will buy into that post..

read, learn, post, read post, delete. then repeat...

so beta tester give us some info!!!!

how many stages are we looking at now????

beers :beer:

and you know people will buy into that post..

read, learn, post, read post, delete. then repeat...

so beta tester give us some info!!!!

how many stages are we looking at now????

beers :beer:

there are 4 inconel compressor blades that are cross drilled and lightened.

cross drilled blades?
OD

yeah it decreases mass and prevents surging

I think this thread just jumped the shark...

You would think with cross drilled blades it would deafen (is that a word?) dogs as you passed by!

well, :nono:

slow spool, no cool.... :evil_laug

Huh? Turbo I have on now (still with the CAT): 5 PSI at 2500
14 by 4K.

Can AFSC do that? :lol:

Nothing wrong with running a high flow CAT with a turbo on a DD car if it is placed far enough from the motor for the exhaust to cool off.

there are 4 inconel compressor blades that are cross drilled and lightened.

cross drilled or dimpled?

beers :beer:

hold on, let me check the owner's manual

cross drilled or dimpled?

beers :beer:

the dimples make the blades fly further straighter...

All the dimples do is make it stealth so you will avoid military radar.
The drilled holes allow any dirt entering the compressor to flow through into the engine without damaging the blades. It's known as FOD prevention. Used on all new aircraft since 2002.

+1 ^
In addition it allows the fractured blade fragments flow freely into the engine without damaging other blades. :lol2:

All the dimples do is make it stealth so you will avoid military radar.

In mere moments, governments worldwide will tremble at the awesome power from my stealth golf ball bombers of doom...they will never see them coming...

Well...except for all the giant white dimpled balls in the sky...

All the dimples do is make it stealth so you will avoid military radar.
The drilled holes allow any dirt entering the compressor to flow through into the engine without damaging the blades. It's known as FOD prevention. Used on all new aircraft since 2002.

strange i never noticed that... i am up close and personal to C17 / KC135 / C5 and a few other aircraft on a regular basis.... guess i'llhave to start paying attention:uhh:

So no FOD walkdowns necessary in front of your 8 every morning with this unit? :)

So no FOD walkdowns necessary in front of your 8 every morning with this unit? :)

No, it will all flow freely into the motor.

So no FOD walkdowns necessary in front of your 8 every morning with this unit? :)It may nolonger harm the engines, but being ejected out the back could harm carrier deck crews.

No, it will all flow freely into the motor.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ROFLMAO!!!!

No, it will all flow freely into the motor.

Can't you just put a pair of panty hose on the front to keep all the big stuff out.:lol:

strange i never noticed that... i am up close and personal to C17 / KC135 / C5 and a few other aircraft on a regular basis.... guess i'llhave to start paying attention:uhh:


Those aircraft are to old to have these modern blades. Unless they have been repowered with engines carrying dash numbers higher then -21.

this project isn't dead yet?!?!

that makes me roflmao

so how many more decade till its out? or should you just wait till the 16X comes out

Those aircraft are to old to have these modern blades. Unless they have been repowered with engines carrying dash numbers higher then -21.

some of the 17's are newer and all of the 135's have been retrofitted with new engines in recent years... i am not familiar with nomenclature though, so i dunno... i just know how to shut 'em down in case of fire:dunno:

some of the 17's are newer and all of the 135's have been retrofitted with new engines in recent years... i am not familiar with nomenclature though, so i dunno... i just know how to shut 'em down in case of fire:dunno:

pfft..like thats hard to figure out...you find the "dump fuel" lever and start making sweet sweet hand loving to it as you pump it up and down...

pfft..like thats hard to figure out...you find the "dump fuel" lever and start making sweet sweet hand loving to it as you pump it up and down...

huh???

i am not familiar with this method... but it sounds MUCH more fun than my way:

throttles, bottles, batteries, seat safe(ejection seat if so equipped(yes fighter/bombers...duh))

:lol:

huh???

i am not familiar with this method... but it sounds MUCH more fun than my way:

throttles, bottles, batteries, seat safe(ejection seat if so equipped(yes fighter/bombers...duh))

:lol:

go out in style i say...

and if i have a chance to dump fuel on innocent bystanders again...how could i say no to that?

if i can squeeze it in...i'll try to fly as low and slow as possible while doing it...get that badass firetail...you know what im talking about...

http://www.catwack.com/pics/240.jpg

Is there a fuel dump kit for RX8? :evil_laug :lol2:

go out in style i say...

and if i have a chance to dump fuel on innocent bystanders again...how could i say no to that?

if i can squeeze it in...i'll try to fly as low and slow as possible while doing it...get that badass firetail...you know what im talking about...

http://www.catwack.com/pics/240.jpg

fucking SWEET!!! i wanna take a few hours in the air with you!

twinks man, sometimes i wonder if you actually do ANYTHING in life besides look up funny pics... i spend ALL day at work on the web and i have never seen so much great stuff from one person

Is there a fuel dump kit for RX8? :evil_laug :lol2:

hells yeah there is.... you access it by returning to OEM fuel control via the PCM.
then it is necessary to remove the catalytic convertor.
last, find the APV around 7200rpms.... and dance all over it :)


OH!!!! wait.... dont let anyone stand even relatively behind the exhaust tips during a fuel dump in action.

unless of course you like the smell of burning hair and are blood relation to hannibal lecter

Is there a fuel dump kit for RX8? :evil_laug :lol2:

Yes actually...its factory installed...its called the PCM...

fucking SWEET!!! i wanna take a few hours in the air with you!

twinks man, sometimes i wonder if you actually do ANYTHING in life besides look up funny pics... i spend ALL day at work on the web and i have never seen so much great stuff from one person

i've simply been on the interpipes since the dawn of the interwebs...once you've been in it for this long...it creates permanent damage...

side-effect...lolcatz

hells yeah there is.... you access it by returning to OEM fuel control via the PCM.
then it is necessary to remove the catalytic convertor.
last, find the APV around 7200rpms.... and dance all over it :)


OH!!!! wait.... dont let anyone stand even relatively behind the exhaust tips during a fuel dump in action.

unless of course you like the smell of burning hair and are blood relation to hannibal lecter

That's known as the factory installed anti-tailgate feature...