yesterday i saw a quote from an iraqi who in response to a question about the abuse pics said " why are people so upset? saddam's people did much worse and no one said or did anyhting about it for years," i have seen similar attitudes in conversations here and other places. for instance when someone points out that the jews are killing muslims, someone will say something like "well muslims are are killing muslims too why dont you/they say that's bad."

so i was thinking. because muslims sometimes kill one another does that does that make it any less wrong for someone else to kill innocent muslims? because husseins people tortured and humiliated their prisoners does it make it any less wrong that americans did so?

i say no. it's not. how was it wrong in your belief system for the other guy to do it to you but not wrong for you to do the same thing back or to someone else. i know somethings there are things that have to be done, i'm no pacifist. but people are getting out of hand and really need to check themselves and what they believe is right and wrong.

note: this sounded like a more powerful statement in my head, it doesn't quite seem the same written.

"We said we closed down Saddams torture chambers.....
..turns out we just put up a sign - Under New Management!"

-Jay Leno.

S

I haven't seen anyone say that they supported what has taken place but I have seen, and agree that if there are more pictures coming out, it is much better that they show abuse and not dead or mutilated bodies of these Iraqi's. We all do not like or respect what happened but we must live with the fact that people will do stupid and vulgar things when they are in a position of power. There have been studies that prove that once in a powerful or dominant position for a period of only around two weeks, the dominant person will start to talk to and treat the other subject like they are less of a person than themselves and try to inflict some kind of pain on them. It is unfortunately human nature at its very core.

The people responsible will be prosecuted and punished and we must move on and focus on the future and ways to prevent these types of situations from happening again. These photos have been under investigation for over two months and will be under investigation for a while until all responsible are found.

I understand Zoom, it seems difficult sometimes to put down in writing the way these acts make us feel. You are right to think that there is some callousness here and there was a quote from Rush Limbaugh in the "In the news..." thread where he was actually making fun of the prisoners. That is like making jokes about 9/11 while we are still counting bodies.

Jay Leno's comment captured the way I felt pretty close. This was a very avoidable, unnecessary, and disgusting abuse of power. It is unfortunate that a commander that has no training in prison administration was given this post. Makes no sense to me at all. What did they do with the trained personnell for this task? Send them out to fortify bridges or build mess halls?

I think that your concern for these people and your own disgust of the abuses has come out in your post and I can appreciate your need to start a new thread to express your feelings on this matter. I am also glad to see that Colin Powell is taking this issue very seriously as well.

JUst another day in the Bush administration.
No respect for anyone.

That's what you get when the leader of the"free world" goes around asserting that America is Good and muslims are EVIL.
He may claim he doesn't feel that way, but it sure sounds like he does...
What gets me is first it was WMD then it was for their own good. Yeah, right, we've done so much good over there...

I have to say that even though I am no fan of Bushey (Bush/Cheney Admin.) I still don't think that this is their direct responsibillity. I would say that it is a reflection on the millitary and the command of these troops in particular. Apparently this was originally reported in January my question would be why didn't anyone put a stop to it and put someone else in command before the end of April? That is another thing that makes this abuse so tragic. Protocol was not followed and the checks were not in place. That is the problem.

Didn't Rumsfeld just get chastized by Bush because he knew about it for awhile, and was "taking care of it" without telling the senate or the pres?
I'm sorry, I'm very passionately anti-Bush. I try to stay out of the lounge for that very raeason, since it does no one any good to hear me carry on about it.

Eeeehhh! It's all good carry on! Speed ER Doc will probably pipe in with some funny pics and short one liners but I certainly can stand to hear some anti-Bushey campaigning.

Save that for the "In The News" thread. We do not need two threads going on about the same thing at the same time. Besides, you would get too see a background on the whole spectrum of the last year in politics there.