I live in the Kansas City area and have a Mazda dealer within about a mile of my home. I stopped by the dealer this past Saturday and noticed a car on the showroom with a cover over it. It was obviously an RX8 so I asked the sales manager, who I have gotten to know a bit over the past year, why the car was covered. He told me that it was their project car that they are setting up with a ProCharger, body kit and other goodies.

In case you are not aware, the ProCharger is a centrifugal supercharger. I happen to know that Accessible Engineering Inc. (ATI), who develops intercooled ProCharger kits for many vehicles, is located just a few blocks away and asked if they were in on the project. The sales manager indicated thay they were and that his dealership had provided ATI with an RX8 for development purposes.

I was given a look under the cover and found a silver RX8 sitting on 19" Racing Heart wheeles with Pzeros. It looked awesome! The sales manager told me they had just received the MazdaSpeed body kit and were ready to install it.

He was throwing out some estimated HP numbers, for the ProCharger modification but I will not repeat them as they would have to be pure speculation. I later stopped by ATI and spoke to some of they guys in the shop. They claimed no knowledge of a ProCharger kit being developed for the RX8. It may be possible that someone is workng on this independently using components from ATI. Or perhaps this is just a side project they are doing but not developng a kit for resale at this time.

I hope to have a more extensive conversation with the dealership since they were quite busy on Saturday and it was difficult for me to get any time with the Sales Manager. Anyway, I will keep my eye on things here and keep you all updated.

Hey KCROTOR,
Was this SunFlower Madza?

Wow sounds interesting. Keep us informed.

Originally posted by PHA RX-8
Hey KCROTOR,
Was this SunFlower Madza?

Yes it was. Do you have more info?

No, I'm in OP area myself, so I was going to go by and take a look at it. I bought my RX-8 from indep mazda.

in loop

beers

huh? Waz e meene?

TTIWWOP!

hmmm.......nice to hear

That seems to be pretty common on this board. Why do people feel the need to post topics in two or three different forums?

or he could be shitting you..need some hard evidence!

I live in the Kansas City area


Got a job offer out their but no nothing about the area.

you like it..

Misouri right...?

let me know b/c no one has been able to tell me anything about that city..

Living, nightlife, shopping, ect... oh and of course the car scene.:D

thanks,

Paul

I live on the Kansas Side. Send me your email address and I will be happy to discuss with you.

I stopped by the dealer again this Saturday. Not much better luck in getting time with the Sales Manager as they were very busy again. They did, however, have the car on display this time with the body kit installed.

I spoke with one of the guys from the service department that was hanging around there. He said they plan to have the ProCharger installation completed prior to the Kansas City Auto Show the first part of March so they can display the car there.

He also said they have an agreement with ProCharger to do installations as a dealer package and that the factory warranty would remain in place for this upgrade. Not sure yet about the price or performance of the package.

One other note - they had written on the windshield of the car "Jet Engines Don't Have Pistons Either".

Originally posted by KCROTOR
He also said they have an agreement with ProCharger to do installations as a dealer package and that the factory warranty would remain in place for this upgrade. Not sure yet about the price or performance of the package.

One other note - they had written on the windshield of the car "Jet Engines Don't Have Pistons Either".

wow...under warranty??? is this for real?

Originally posted by XDEEDUBBX
wow...under warranty??? is this for real?

He said that as long as it was installed by them (the dealer) that the warranty would remain in tact. He said his dealership has an exclusive agreement to handle the upgrade in a 4 state area.

The warranty would have to be from that dealer as Mazda USA would have a fit if you tried to get them to fix the engine under warranty. Good luck with the ATI. I know they have a good reputation with the mustang crowd, but it seems that due to a poor FMU, and many, many improper tunes many of the 350Z's with the ATI kits were having issues (including a few blown engines).

Wish someone in FL would do that

Originally posted by KCROTOR
He said that as long as it was installed by them (the dealer) that the warranty would remain in tact. He said his dealership has an exclusive agreement to handle the upgrade in a 4 state area.

What 4 states? Is ILLINOIS part of it? I'm game!

UPDATE: Well it seems that the dealer is serious about making this Prochager upgrade a reality. I have been told that the dealership has received approval from Mazda North America to move forward, within certain guidelines, in providing this system as a dealer package.

I confirmed that their is a third party involved that is doing the R&D using ATI supplied Procharger components. The racing shop that is putting this together has some prior experience with rotaries and now has an exclusive agreement with the dealership on this project. I plan to pay them a visit in the next week or so to see what details they can provide.

Working within the guidelines provided by Mazda, the initial performance target for this upgrade is 300hp. They think they may be able to accomplish this with about 3-4 lbs of boost. A three row front mounted intercooler and ECU reprogramming will also be part of the package. Primary concerns are the high compression ration of the Renesis engine and drivetrain longevity.

The appearance upgrades to the car have been completed and it was on display at the annual World of Wheeles in Kansas City this past weekend. The dealer indicated that the car was drawing a significant amount of interest and attention.

The next stop will be the Kansas City Internation Auto Show the first part of March. The plan is to have the Procharger installed for this show but not yet functional. After that, the completed project with functioning Procharger will make a trip to the Rotary Revolution event for display. This will also coincide with feature stories in Turbo and Tuner magazines.

The dealer plans to sell the car after the Rotary Revolution event and begin offering the upgrade to the public. Not sure about the dates but the price of the package is estimated to be around $ 3,800. The dealer install of the package may push the final cost to somewhere between $4,000 to $5,000.

the pricing you mentioned is fairly competitive. expect the blitz s/c to be no less than $4k. ssr eng. turbo has a tenative price of $5-7k.

Yes, but the big difference here is that YOU RETAIN THE FACTORY WARRANTY!

KCROTOR,

Appreciate your vigilance in seeing this tip through, good stuff. Also kudos for not getting into a pissing contest with the naysayers earlier in this thread. Some digitals of the car would be nice if you've got any.

Cool, keep us posted as now we are in the R&D stage of developing a Supercharger system as well :D

Yeah and I would like to find out if they are looking to offer this package to other dealers in other areas... like say Eastern Washington... The Idaho Panhandle would be nice... How can I get my dealer hooked up?

I've seen this car also and as a matter of fact those rims came from one of my sponsors. It looks pretty damned good. I have one problem with what the dealer is telling you though.

I am sorry to say that there is no way in hell that MAZDA USA gave Sunflower Mazda the OK to install damned SUPERCHARGER on an RX8 and that it will retain it's FACTORY warranty. I have seen this car and also talked to the same people about it and they were only in the 1st stages of getting this project started.

I have worked for a dealership (not Mazda but VERY closely related) for over 9 years and not once have they had the manufacturer OK such a thing. I have seen powertrain warranties voided for installing 3.73 gears in a car, CAI kits installed, PCM reflashes, suspension warranties voided for lowering sprigs. If you modify a car and that modification causes a failure of one or more components then those components are not warrantable. I can just see it now. Hell installing window tint voids the warranty on glass, and window motors if they go out.

customer: "yeah I was passing a car on the highway and my engine blew"

Dealer: "do you think it could be the SUPERCHARGER installed on your freaking car"

It's not gonna fly. If you take that car to ANY OTHER Mazda dealer in the US they will laugh in your face.

I think that it's great the they are installing such a kit, however they are feeding you a huge line of crap if they tell you that the warranty is still intact.

If it is too good to be true it probobly is. And if by some remotely unfreaking believable chance this is true, I will drop $4,000 and install it tomorrow.

Yes, I totaly agree with you. It is very difficult for me to believe that the warranty would remain after such a modification to the car. After reading your post I do not see how this could be true. I will go back and try to clarify this when I get a chance as it may have been mis-stated or I mis-understood.

Are you able to get some pictures with the kit/wheels installed?

Originally posted by SHOWOFF

It's not gonna fly. If you take that car to ANY OTHER Mazda dealer in the US they will laugh in your face.

I think that it's great the they are installing such a kit, however they are feeding you a huge line of crap if they tell you that the warranty is still intact.

If it is too good to be true it probobly is. And if by some remotely unfreaking believable chance this is true, I will drop $4,000 and install it tomorrow.

Well, this isn't entirely true. It is very possible for one of them to actually retain warranty with a part like this. Because Mazda USA isn't covering it, it's their insurance provider. So when the car blows Mazda USA won't pay much to fix your car, their insurance will and when covering a few RX-8s they only see it as a benefit I would suppose.

Blitz RX8 @ Tokyo Auto Salon with clutch driven S/C. If youv'e already seen it, sorry.
RACRX

javascript:popup('http://www.urbanracer.com/gallery/gallery/event_coverage/Tokyo_Auto_Salon/Tokyo_Auto_Salon_2004/Day_1/img_9126.jpg', 820, 700)

Originally posted by KCROTOR
...He also said they have an agreement with ProCharger to do installations as a dealer package and that the factory warranty would remain in place for this upgrade. Not sure yet about the price or performance of the package.... No freakin way!!! If they do this, I'M THERE BABY!!! :D Hell, KC's less than a day's drive for me. Better yet would be if I got my dealership to agree to honor the warranty instead.

And actually, it is possible that Mazda has decided to embrace the tuner industry for the RX-8. I mean, think about it... what's the ONE thing we'd all like more of? Power! And what's the one major controversy surrounding this car? Power. If MNAO embraces some manufacturer's mild FI kit, it would shut up a lot of their critics. Hmmm.....

There is one peculiar thing about the Blitz compressor. Any see it but me? Can you say "Mad Max"?

Charles

Blitz RX8 @ Tokyo Auto Salon with a CLUTCH driven S/C.

Originally posted by SSR Engineering
Well, this isn't entirely true. It is very possible for one of them to actually retain warranty with a part like this. Because Mazda USA isn't covering it, it's their insurance provider. So when the car blows Mazda USA won't pay much to fix your car, their insurance will and when covering a few RX-8s they only see it as a benefit I would suppose.

Are you implying that they are selling an aftermarket warranty with the kit, if so then yes there may be a warranty, but not from MAZDA. My dealership has done this before on a truck we bought from the auction that had a Blower on it.

Showoff,

What dealership do you work at. I want to know which one to avoid. I have never had that much trouble from doing simple bolt-on mods like CAI. Now the supercharger may be different. And who knows maybe MazdaSpeed is looking at getting some inexpensive R&D. It has happened before. Look at the NSX and the $120k version that was released in the US, all the work was covered under the Acura factory WARRANTY. Do your research before you flame here because I know quite a bit about the NSX R&D for this model. Some manufacturers will do this.

Originally posted by 93rdcurrent
Showoff,

What dealership do you work at. I want to know which one to avoid. I have never had that much trouble from doing simple bolt-on mods like CAI. Now the supercharger may be different. And who knows maybe MazdaSpeed is looking at getting some inexpensive R&D. It has happened before. Look at the NSX and the $120k version that was released in the US, all the work was covered under the Acura factory WARRANTY. Do your research before you flame here because I know quite a bit about the NSX R&D for this model. Some manufacturers will do this.

Don't worry you're too far away. Let me ask you this question if you know so much, is the warranty on a Saleen product through Ford Motor Co., or Saleen? They add S/C and Nitrous to some cars swapped motors and trannies on others and the vehicles are not covered by the Ford factory warranty they are warranted by Saleen, you also cannot have warranty work done on one of these vehicles unless they are a Saleen dealer. Just comparing similarities. Just as the fact that you cannot have a MAZDASPEED Protege worked on by a non-mazdaspeed dealer.

If this vehicle has a S/C will it be CARB legal in 50 states. Mazda will have to fork over some serious dough to get that approved. Like I said if the kit is for real, with factory warranty, in all 50 states at any Mazda dealer I will call Larry Ray at Sunflower and have it installed. And BTW I am not flaming here just stating the obvious.

I would just hate to see someone go out and buy this car based on assumption. Not trying to flame or piss people off I have just seen from experience how difficult it can be when you take a modified vehicle to another dealer and try to get warranty work done. The dealership (not the selling dealer) that may do the work has no idea why certain things were and weren't done on the vehicle, such as why is this oil line here, why is the piping moved, how do I reflash the ECU when my WDS system cannot even communicate with the PCM on this vehicle correctly. What do I reset the timing at on the vehicle. There are so many variables.

Now if you are talking about a $120,000 dollar NSX vs. a fully loaded out S/C RX-8 topping out at $40,000 the guy with the $120,000 NSX can probobly afford to have his vehicle trailered to the servicing dealer no matter where he lives. I have a buddy that owns 2 Lamborghinis and a Ferrari 360 Modena, he has to have them serviced at a qaulified shop 250 miles from here. He obviously can afford the bill.

Just got off the phone not too long ago and It is now confirmed the procharged RX8 will be at the Rotary Revolution this April 30th - May 2nd.

We'd like to see your 8's there as well. ;)

http://revolutionmktg.net/Revolution

and

http://www.rx8club.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=67

Originally posted by Charles R. Hill
There is one peculiar thing about the Blitz compressor. Any see it but me? Can you say "Mad Max"?

Charles

We'll show em :D

Originally posted by racrx


Okay genius, then tell me which company makes the CLUTCH in question. That was my point. Although most people might have caught that it was clutch-driven, most might not recognize it as being from an air conditioning compressor.

That's okay, I am currently co-designing a much more user friendly version with the guys at SSR. Y'all gonna have a ton o' fun with it when we are finished.

Just messing around with ya, Racer.

Charles

Can't wait to see it, Charles. Any idea on release date?

A centrifugal supercharger is only going to make a peaky power band more peaky and not do anything for the area under the curve.

Perhaps this needs another thread, but I would like to hear more about the design of the supercharger that SSR is working on if it is supposedly better.

I think the twin screw design Blitz uses has proven itself very well for our type of powerband. In the US, it has been applied to the Celica GT-S with excellent results. Not the most powerful, but far more usable. It keeps the power band the same as stock but raises the whole thing up. A centrifugal tends to just make power up top.

Here is a dyno from a Celica 2ZZ application. All their applications include a piggy back for ecu retuning. This is a well though out kit!

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0211tur_celica13_zoom.jpg

I should mention that I am a fan of a well sized turbo, but I would take a supercharger for this car if done correctly and priced right.

Okay genius, then tell me which company makes the CLUTCH in question.

Nipondenso, Hitachi, Toyo, Bendex. Pick one!!

That was my point.

Sorry, I misunderstood your point. I thought you were asking if anybody saw Mad Max, My bad.
RACRX

Nah RacrX, my point was to just encourage everyone to look a little closer and see what the "latest" technology is. An a/c clutch on a blower. I cannot see the application of such a thing. What a hassle to turn it on and off. I am working on something that is adjustable by the end-user, modifiable in five minutes, and a lot cooler looking when it is assembled. Someone said that our power curve is "peaky" but the dyno sheets I have seen show a quite flat torque curve and an appropriately rising horsepower level. Am I missing something?

C

As to the release date, we are trying for Rotary Revolution. The thing is, we(SSR and me) have not only the s.c. thing happening but also some other bolt-on type items with real functional purpose and some top of the line "bling" factor involved. If all of our arrangements converge properly my car will only look stock from the exterior with a gauge, or two, on the interior. I plan on picking the pockets of some musclecar owners in my area to offset the cost of the project. Is that shameless of me? Just wondering.

Charles

Cool!! Can't wait to see it. Best of luck with the project.
RACRX

Originally posted by Charles R. Hill
Nah RacrX, my point was to just encourage everyone to look a little closer and see what the "latest" technology is. An a/c clutch on a blower. I cannot see the application of such a thing. What a hassle to turn it on and off. I am working on something that is adjustable by the end-user, modifiable in five minutes, and a lot cooler looking when it is assembled. Someone said that our power curve is "peaky" but the dyno sheets I have seen show a quite flat torque curve and an appropriately rising horsepower level. Am I missing something?

C

That was me. I said it was peaky. I should rephrase that as you are correct. We have a very flat torque and a smooth rising hp curve.

The problem is a centrifugal is just a belt driven turbo. It does not make any power at all down low as it does not even make 1psi until 4rpm or so and then full boost only at max rpm. At low rpm, it can not make boost. It will make more overall hp and look great on paper but hard to use in the real world.

We only need to look at the S2000 for comprehension of that effect.

A roots and screw type (what blitz is using which happens to be better, but not really noticable in low boost I would think) would make the same amount of boost at any rpm and instead of only pushing the power even higher up top would give a similar power curve as stock but higher everywhere. A roots is not the most efficient overall though.

A screw is an improved design that compresses the air internally and is a lot more efficient. It tends to cost more and not really show advantage at low boost, but is the best design and what Blitz uses. I really like the Blitz. It shows promise.

It would have an effect similar to this dyno of a jackson racing RSX using an eaton supercharger which is a roots.

http://www.jacksonracing.com/SiteGraphics/Charts/RSX_S_Race_SC.gif

My question was what type of supercharger are you guys using?

Murix, some of that is true, depending on the application, supercharger etc. it is extremely hard to judge and "guess" where the boost would come in especially since I've never seen a dyno, quarter mile or any result of an RX-8 being supercharged. But having a centrifugal your eliminating quite a bit of risk, being a rotary engine it's somewhat unpractical for the goals we are shooting for. And there are some problems with these eaton, roots type blowers. If you do not have the right fuel supply (which most kits lack) this whole boost at idle thing is very risky. First of all having a roots on a rotary if you have 1psi of boost at idle the chances of you detonating are alot more prone, and we all know what happens when you detonate a rotary engine.

I would also think that the ability to intercool the charge with a centrifugal supercharger represents a further reduction in risk and increase in power. This is especially important on a rotary because it tends to be sensitive to thermal load. I would also speculate that the centrifugal would be better suited to handle the higher rpm of a rotary that a roots type.

Well I am have been searching long and hard for a supercharger for my car, however I did stumble across this for all those in the US. I think this is the first positive news I have seen on this.

Rx-8 Turbo Charger (http://www.ssr-engineering.com/products_rx8turbo.php)

Where are these guys located?

I'm not sure, but their phone number and email are located on their contacts page. They are on mountain time US so that gives a basic region.

"Black box" laptop programmable, piggyback system
*For Off-Road Use Only!

Still a good find. I'll still wait for a supercharger.

it's worth mentioning that this kit is still in the prototype stage. so far we haven't seen any numbers, prices, etc

I received a reply from them today.

Will be available within the month and price is around US$6900.

this is old news... SSR regularly post in this forum.

thanks for that Alex, have you got news for us then mate. Cause obviously if this is old news, then you have something more for us then...... no I didn't think so.

I had not found anything like this before and judging by the couple of responses I have already, I think more than a few people feel the same way.

Thanks for the help with finding parts for the 8.

oops didn't realize earlier when i looked at this thread that it was about ssr's turbo.

have a look here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9500&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

Zoom 44 swoops in for the kill... Nice pics though. I am probably going to be looking at SSR next year if MazdaSpeed hasn't done anything yet.

But the problem with the rotary isn't a lack of top end power or the ability to gain yet more power on the top end, but rather no low end power and difficulty gaining much via N/A only. What we need to be aiming at is beefing up the low to mid-RPM range... which means no centrifugal supercharger.

Thanks Zoom, I did not realise it had been discussed before. I only posted it because I know how long I have been looking for mod work that is really going to fix the straight line speed issue.

Even though I have been reading these forums for quite a while, this must have gotten under my radar.

Regardless, I hope that some people in the same boat as me who missed the other thread benefitted from this one.

Sorry for the repost of old data, but you have to admit the pics look good and they are new.

There won't be a MazdaSpeed FI RX-8 until probably 2006 ... so if you're waiting for that, you'll be waiting awhile.

Turbo's have way more potential, Superchargers are easier to tune. Personally, I'm all about turbo's. Nothing better than being able to pick and choose every little piece of a turbo to fit your application.

Sunflower Mazda will have their Supercharger kit ready for sale very soon.

Well, it seems to me that we have a number of things to consider. First, I keep hearing people say that our rotaries have no low-end torque. It doesn't seem to me that 160+/- lbs.ft. of torque is all that bad for a 1.3L engine. Second, accepting the premise that we DO lack adequate torque, isn't a 4.44:1 axle ratio enough to make up the difference and focus on the rotary's strengths such as rpm capability? I know that I have no problem breaking the tires loose at will in first, second, or third gear! I know that when our supercharger project is done I will then need to seek better ways to gain traction. Or, we could delay the onset of more torque and maybe get some traction early in the rpm range. Pro racers do that with multi-stage boost and nitrous settings. What's the difference in practical applications. Besides, as I have stated before, the system SSR and I are developing will allow the end-user to decide when, where, and how much boost they desire and adjust the system accordingly. Other systems do not allow such flexibility.

Just my thoughts...

Ray

oh i wasn't slamming your posting. just linking people to the other thread for more info.

I also was not slamming your post, but thanks for the snappy reply, it was humorous reading.

cheers

oh, and BTW: Knightsports is coming out with a supercharger for the 8. Great pix of it too...

...but I'll let you guys figure out how to do a SEARCH for it on this forum.

Damn..they are located here in Albuquerque!!! I'm going to give them a call and see what they are all about! I'll keep you posted

Heard a rumor offline today (while ordering some goodies) that PFS is working on their supercharger and it is beyond just the drawing board stage -- heard they have been doing a little collaboration with a few other well known vendors/developers mentioned on this forum -- hmmm

Just a quick update for you....Looks like the Procharger will not be in place for the Kansas City International Auto Show March 4-7 as was planned. But the the car will be there and it looks totally awesome!!!! The rear spoiler and exhaust have been added and they make a big difference. I will try to post some pictures for you soon.

The dealer still plans to have the Procharger operational by the time it goes to the Revolution. The tuners that are working on this project are exploring the possibility of using Canzoomers ECU.

The dealer indicated that any warranty work will be through them and the car will need to be serviced by them after this upgrade has been completed.

Hope to see some of you at the KCIAS next week!!

:eek: i am speechless when i look at the Blitz S/C

Why would that be?

C

Originally posted by Charles R. Hill
Why would that be?

C

because its badass!

well said lol. the intake is huge and the kit looks clean. just a great machine and can't wait to see it on the market.

I guess whatever gets the job done and looks good doing it is worth the expense. I tend to lean toward superchargers(for reasons posted previously) and think the Procharger also looks well-engineered and designed so I can understand your view. In the end, the engine has no idea how a part looks or what brand/type it is. The only issue is how much boost you are getting and if it suits your preferences. As far as one version being objectively better than another, I doubt there is and "real world" difference one from another. Kinda like nitrous kits. The engine has no idea what brand is being used, as long as it is properly designed and installed they should all yield similar results.

Charles

I appologize to everyone for having not posted any updates on the Procharged RX-8 recently. I have been quite busy and have not taken the time to stop by Sunflower Mazda lately.

The good news it that there is an article about the Sunflower Mazda Procharged RX-8 in the latest issue of RX Tuner!

I have not read the article yet but did see it on the web site magazine cover at www.rxtuner.com.

Anybody know where we can get a PDF of the article. I'm a little late with my subscription ...

Has anyone read the article about this car in RX Tuner Magazine?

Not yet.. I havent gotten my mag yet. Boostd said that they had shipped early last week and that we should have them very soon.

was there any superchargers for rx-7s ?

The latest RXTuner magazine mentions the Supercharged Option that will be Mazda authorized / warenteed. It's made by a Midwest Dealership, not by Mazda.

They expect 350-360BHP with 6-8PSI of intercooled boost. You won't be able to crank the boost up though as they are NOT decreasing the engine's compression. The $7000 option kit includes the intercooler, supercharger, piggyback computer, piping, manifold, and installation.

They are also working on or have a 4 port setup I believe for this kit that works better with boost.

Again Mazda's not letting anyone touch that encryped ECU code, so no flashing the ECU with your unencrypted hand-held "superchips" computer. It's piggyback ECU only.

The dealership that makes the supercharged kit says they will NOT nickle & dime their customers to death. You get the Top RX-8 with a "all the damn dealer accessories" in one package instead of paying through the nose for each dealer accessory.

This probably doesn't include the Mazdaspeed accessories though.

(edit) RXTuner said the kit was available at time of press I believe.

when will this be avalible ?

The dealership is Sunflower Mazda in Olathe, KS. The sales manager there had two of them in his show room about a month ago, a silver one and a red one. The red one was already sold. It also had a Borla exhaust, it sounded sweeeeet. He said it was over $40,000 with all of the modifications.

It's nice to see all these boost kits coming into fruition

Just to confirm, did you say that this setup had a full Mazda warranty, or a warranty from that dealership?

I thought that the it was a "mazdaspeed rx-8 "
that dealer had.
Correct me if im wrong, but the mazdaspeed rx-8 does not have a supercharger.

Ok, time to revive this thread.

Thanks to an article in the most recent RX Tuner magazine, it looks like SunFlower Mazda in conjunction with ATI/ProCharger and MNAO (!!!) may well be releasing several different FI kits that will NOT VOID YOU FACTORY WARRANTY!!!

HOLY SHEEP DIP, BATMAN!!!

Time to get some discussion going on this one again!

Anyone know anything factual? The idea of forced induction of any kind is really really appealing to me... but the idea of voiding my warranty is definitely not. If they do this, and it really doesn't void the Mazda warranty, then baby, I'm there!!!

I know it's going to be at the Rotary Revolution in 7 days ;)

I'm already writing down all my questions for them. No escaping me!. :)

Well, that's a start. But what I REALLY want to confirm is that this won't void my warranty. The idea of 350 WHP makes me positively drool, but voiding my warranty doesn't. Can anyone (KCROTOR, perhaps?) speak to this???

Originally posted by Omicron
Well, that's a start. But what I REALLY want to confirm is that this won't void my warranty. The idea of 350 WHP makes me positively drool, but voiding my warranty doesn't. Can anyone (KCROTOR, perhaps?) speak to this???

Omni,

I told you to plan to make the RotoRev! Gee for me I had completly forgotten that this was supposed to be there ... not! If the question isn't answered before next Sat, I'll see what I can find out ... with ranger4277's help of course.

this is so great
but I'm too cheap to justify 7k

Someone post the article?

Far as I know, it's not online. Have to buy the magazine!

It's RX Tuner magazine, not Rotary Tuner ... close enough though. We'll post the story on www.rxtuner.com this weekend as a pdf for you to download.

like Mike said, come to the Rotary Revolution end of the month in Indy if you want to see the car in the sheet-metal.

That's awesome! If you can, get pics of it while its going through development. I would love to see it with the mods you said.:eek:

Originally posted by BOOSTD 7
It's RX Tuner magazine, not Rotary Tuner ... close enough though. D'oh, brain fart. All fixed.

Originally posted by Omicron
Ok, time to revive this thread.

Thanks to an article in the most recent RX Tuner magazine, it looks like SunFlower Mazda in conjunction with ATI/ProCharger and MNAO (!!!) may well be releasing several different FI kits that will NOT VOID YOU FACTORY WARRANTY!!!

Anyone know anything factual? The idea of forced induction of any kind is really really appealing to me... but the idea of voiding my warranty is definitely not. If they do this, and it really doesn't void the Mazda warranty, then baby, I'm there!!!


Just got a reply email from the sales manager......

Adrian,

We are currently offering two types of the Mazdaspeed RX-8 here at Sunflower.

Stage one car will have an upgraded exhaust system, filter-charger and a piggy-back ECM from canzoomer, target HP is 288

Stage two gives you all of the above with an ATI Procharger with 6-8 pounds of boost, target HP is 355.

I am still working on pricing and we do have one supercharged car here at the dealership.
I do not know what I will be offering customers who are looking to upgrade their cars that they have purchased from another dealer. The whole purpose in the program is to offer the enthusiast a place to buy their vehicle and a reason to buy here vs. other dealers. Keep in touch with me and I will keep you posted as the project develops. Attatched is a picture of one of our project cars that we sold last month..

Zoom-Zoom

Larry R. Smith II
Sales Manager
Sunflower Mazda

-----------------------------
So it looks like it is true. Don't know if the warranty will only be covered by their dealership? Hopefully, out of state owners can purchase just the kit and have a local dealership do the service on it to keep the warranty.
Hopefully we'll see some pictures from the rotary revolution this coming weekend.
-Adrian

My understanding from discussions with the sales manager is that the service would be only through the Sunflower Mazda dealership. ATI (suplier of the ProCharger) is 2 blocks away and the 3rd party doing the R&D/install is a few miles away. I believe they would be the ones to handle any warranty work on the system through Sunflower Mazda.

Bad news for me (Austin, TX)
Good news for people within 100 miles of Sunflower.

I just hope they actually run the car this weekend. Prove to us the warranty (and reliability) by running it down the strip and giving some test drives. :) Simply looking at it isn't going to be enough to sell me. I will try to get shots of the engine bay.

Oh yeah, here's the picture of their project car they sold. Don't know if this one had a procharger in it.

damn
that's the hottest red 8 I've seen thus far

are those the Racing Hart CX wheels? I like them, but that car needs to be lowered.

Originally posted by BOOSTD 7
It's RX Tuner magazine, not Rotary Tuner ... close enough though. We'll post the story on www.rxtuner.com this weekend as a pdf for you to download.

like Mike said, come to the Rotary Revolution end of the month in Indy if you want to see the car in the sheet-metal.

Did the PDF get posted?

Originally posted by WHealy
Did the PDF get posted?

... no.

Someone post it up!

Here we go again.

RX-8 Supercharger = No warranty anywhere but Sunflower.

PERIOD.

You take that car to any other Mazda Dealer with a Check Engine light, traction control problem, tranny problem, busted half shaft, ANY DRIVETRAIN/ELECTRONIC/EMISSIONS ISSUES PERIOD and they will laugh in your face.

Now if they have found an aftermarket warranty company that will back them up then that is another story.

Yeah I know let the flame war begin but I have seen it too many times.

Hell spend the $40,000 take it to the track break something and see what happens, what have you got to loose.

They didn't get my business on my car even though they are 2 miles from my house. The assistant sales manager that was filling in for Larry was a DICK and wouldn't take my deposit.

Larry was cool and I would buy another car from him if all of this turns out to be true.

We'll see.

Display Sign

I don't think the "Dew" is the secret to the performance, but you never know ...

Bay

Bay with Display

Looks nice....

...

....

.....

any projected cost?

The only thing I got of interest was that they had not yet "tuned" this setup. So I assume they are still in the early development. Other Rotary revolution attentee's may have more info.

Engine Management by Canzoomer! sooooo if you have the canz mod it would cost less? of course you need the proper maps. It looks a lot like the s2000 centrifugal supercharger kit. I like it!

Very nice.
How much was the pricetag sticker on the window?
Any pics of the intercooler installed?

nice...okay i want some numbers now

so will this be a production kit?

<drool>

RX8FANMAN... IN YOUR SIG

"Get a good look at the back side of my 8, cause your gonna see it a lot."

Thats doesn't sound right...

it should be...

"GET A GOOD LOOK AT THE FRONT OF MY RX-8, cause your NOT gonna see it for long"..

RX-8 has low torque so... people will be ahead first 20-30 mph... then it will shoot out like a crazy man on steriods...

my drawers are stuck to my crotch.

get the drawer knob out your butt and that won't happen!
Originally posted by Formula 420
my drawers are stuck to my crotch.

The procharger sounded even more like an alien spaceship. Had a steady whine/whistle to it when it drove by. Yeah, it wasn't "tuned" and wasn't available for test drives either. They really didn't seem to have a lot of information. Here are a couple more offerings to the collection:

cutaway closeup

Can someone get a picture of what the belt and pully look like and the mounting plate for the supercharger.

no sound clip?

I'm sure they chose the centrifugal for its packaging simplicity, but it is totally the wrong device for this car.
To set it up properly for a car with a 9000 RPM rev limit means no power gains until 6000 RPM and a significant loss below 3500 RPM to drive drag.
Stupid.

what does the bottle of Mornign drew doing on the bench? Is it the secret of the supercharged RX-8?

okay still waiting for the dam numbers

Originally posted by MazdaManiac
I'm sure they chose the centrifugal for its packaging simplicity, but it is totally the wrong device for this car.
To set it up properly for a car with a 9000 RPM rev limit means no power gains until 6000 RPM and a significant loss below 3500 RPM to drive drag.
Stupid.

My sentiments in the previous thread about this.

Looks nice, but not so sure it is the correct solution.

...wow... cant WAIT for some numbers on this thing

The handout said "estimated retail of $4,995"

Bob in Indy

this kit have a blow off value? i love the sound of it, but we all want some numbers for sure. thanks

Ive talked to the company that installed this.I dont have number handy,but if you call procharger they have it.Now that i see pictures i understand why that small cost.I was told in the 4k range which seems in line with what im looking at.

That looks like an sc1 not a 2 like the 350 kit uses. Im looking into buying some type of head unit now and getting the plumbing made up.

I'm somewhat turbo-literate, but not very sc-literate. Sorry I apologize in advance for the stupid questions, but...what are all the hoses leading out of the picture? I count three, and it confuses me. The compressor has one going off to the passenger side, and one going out front, and then the throttle body has another one going to the front. Do the two pipes heading forward connect and form a U, with the air intake coming from the one on the passenger side? This seems like a pretty contorted air path.

jds

drool, intercooled supercharger? Gimme gimme gimme.

Oh crap. There's an intercooler in the front? I missed that, is it too late to withdraw my question?

jds

Originally posted by bureau13
I'm somewhat turbo-literate, but not very sc-literate. Sorry I apologize in advance for the stupid questions, but...what are all the hoses leading out of the picture? I count three, and it confuses me. The compressor has one going off to the passenger side, and one going out front, and then the throttle body has another one going to the front. Do the two pipes heading forward connect and form a U, with the air intake coming from the one on the passenger side? This seems like a pretty contorted air path.

jds

If you are turbo literate then you know what's going on. This is only a centrifugal supercharger... or more simply a belt-driven turbocharger. What you see is intake to compressor, out to intercooler and return from intercooler into upper intake manifold.

I also agree with MazdaManiac. The exact problem you (MM) described is what Knight Sports is seeing with their centrifugal S/C kit. You'd be better off with a turbo. However, I feel that there is some serious potential with a positve displacement S/C like whipple or bell...something that will also suit the personality of the 8 very well...

Now that some of you have seen pictures of this car from Rotary Revolution, there seems to be renewed interest in performance numbers. I will try to stop by and see what I can fnd out from Larry in the next few days. We do have a chassis dyno in town and I will see if he has plans to take one of these cars for a few runs.

By the way, I have gotten to know Larry over the last year or so and both he and the Sunflower dealership are top notch from what I can tell.

Originally posted by Japan8
However, I feel that there is some serious potential with a positve displacement S/C like whipple or bell...something that will also suit the personality of the 8 very well...

I agree with that statement entirely!

I'd like to see a Lysholm SC on there, like the one used on the Millenia. Best of both worlds.

Showoff, you have problems with Sunflower also. When I went to buy my car from them, they couldnt find my car in the system, so I sat around waiting with my thumb up my azz for over a month. Indep Mazda had I was looking for so I went there, and they had the nerve to be upset with me. I waited patiently for over a month and still no car.

I'm scared now to use their service department given our history and it's like 3 miles from work. Oh well.

numbers are good

I thought 275 was the hp

Originally posted by MazdaManiac
I'm sure they chose the centrifugal for its packaging simplicity, but it is totally the wrong device for this car.
To set it up properly for a car with a 9000 RPM rev limit means no power gains until 6000 RPM and a significant loss below 3500 RPM to drive drag.
Stupid.

How did it do in the S2000?

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/s2k_dyno.gif

Yes, those are Vortechs claims, but even down to 3000 you have as much or more torque than the stock.

Also don't forget the "turn-on" RPM is ratiometric with the redline. If that "turn-on" RPM is 3000 on a typical 6000 RPM Redline engine it will be 4500 on a 9000 RPM redline engine (i.e. 1/2 X 9000 = 4500 RPM not 9000 - 3000 = 6000 RPM).

I have to agree that any torque reduction down low is going to be a bitch on the RX-8 that has little down there to begin with. However, I don't think there will be much change one way or another down in the 3000 RPM range.

-Mr. Wigggles

Yes, a 25% increase in torque in the mid-range, followed by a 50% increase in torque in the high-end would be quite welcome by me, if it came with no lag and a cool(er) engine compartment. Of course the Renesis is a completly different animal from a VTEC power plant, but the Honda curves are nice. This is going to boil down to the same quality vs. quantity arguments that I've seen waged for years on the Miata forum.

Would just like to see it on a dyno. It will be interesting to see what it does for the tourqe. My understanding is that supercharging a rotary really boosts the tourqe alot.

I think that depends on what kind of turbo you're talking about. There are a number of different varieties, all of which provide different benfits and have different trade-offs. I can't keep them straight though.

jds

Hmmmmmmm..........

This 8 sounded awesome.. sounded like a fighter jet with the turbine sound... looks really tempting.. but i'd like to get the PFFSSSHH sound of a blow-off valve.. hehe

Isn't Paul Yaw building a supercharged 8? If so, does anybody know what type of unit he is using for his cars?

just be careful with Procharger. guys over at 350zmotoring.com and my350z.com had problems with Procharger. blown engines

are there any sound or video clips yet??
What about price?

Any news on this?

With SSR coming out soon seems like a good time to Bumpity bump....

Anyone have any news on this?

I've left a couple messages for Larry over at Sunflower. I need an update!

Here's a C&P of an e-mail from Larry Smith at Sun Flower Mazda. This is only a couple of days old, so I guess the latest and greatest. Not much info, but hopefully this helps...

==============================================
Mark,

The rumors you have heard are true. We do offer a centrifugal supercharger for the RX-8 here at Sunflower Mazda. We have just about finished our prototype car and fine tuned it making it ready for the road. This project has taken us several months and thousands of dollars to perfect but we think the finished product will be worth all we have spent in th process. We do not have final DYNO numbers on the car yet but with 5-7 pounds of boost we anticipate about a 90-130 HP gain at the rear wheels of the car. The kit contains the supercharger and all of the brackets and pulleys, the 2 and a half row intercooler, cat back exhaust system and a piggy back ecm system. We will start marketing the system here in the next 60 days to current RX-8 owners. We do warranty the cars that we boost here at the dealership by assuming the responsibility and standing behind our own work. We will not however warranty any car that was not purchased here and boosted by us and our affiliates. You can certainly boot your own car at your own risk but we do believe that durability and dependability are not going to be an issue if done at a conservative boost level. Please feel free to e-mail me with any questions or comments you may have regarding this project.

Larry R. Smith II
General Sales Manager
SKO Performance
Sunflower Mazda
==============================================

Now if we can just get them warrantied closer to home, like at YOUR local Mazda dealership...wouldn't that be nice. --Mark

So how much are these cars selling for at the dealership???

I sent them an emial too and he reiterated the same sentiments saying their target date for completion is the end of next month...

He didnt comment on the possibility of it coming to one of our dealerships though.. too bad...

90 to 130 WHP... With KC only about 4 hours away, man am I going to have a HARD time resisting this one! :D

any one have their web address. pls

do u think they will delivered to texas.

man they need to get like a link of mazda dealers around north america I WANT ONE!

Once it's released -- I foresee a little road trip down to KC :D

Omicron -- KC is 3 hours from Omaha -- to make it from Boulder to KC in 4 hours you would have to average about 150 mph -- better get your Valentine One polished and ready for that trip ;)

Sunflower Mazda (http://mazda.sunflowerautomotive.com/index.asp)

quick question you cna buy the kit from them and install it at your own dealership of course the will charge you but what warranty would this void on the 8?

Originally posted by RXhusker
Once it's released -- I foresee a little road trip down to KC :D

Omicron -- KC is 3 hours from Omaha -- to make it from Boulder to KC in 4 hours you would have to average about 150 mph -- better get your Valentine One polished and ready for that trip ;) Ok, maybe 5-6 hours. :D

Care to meet me there? I know you want one... ;)

Originally posted by HiTMaNN
quick question you cna buy the kit from them and install it at your own dealership of course the will charge you but what warranty would this void on the 8?

I think this would be great info to find out

Ok..so i call Sunflower today.Im desperate for FI so im going down every road out there.This is one i will not venture down again and here is why.


Phone conversation

Q:So how much will it cost?
A:Right now we are shipping it out we hope for around 4995 thats with a intercooler 2 1/2 strips.

Q:Hmm.. seems like alot is it because engine management was difficult?
A:Oh that doesnt include engine management.

Q:No engine management how does it run?
A:only 4psi doesnt need engine management.

That was enoung for me.I believe and hope that the ones they install with the 6psi have some way of FA and timing adjustment
5k seems like crazy money for 400 bucks in plumbing 2000 dollar supercharger and maybe 800 dollar IC.I hope the guy i talked to today really doesnt know anything.

I think you really need to talk with Larry Smith. He is the one who is closest to this project..

When I first contacted them about this project I got some random sales person who didnt know anything and said to me that he needs to come "up to speed" and be educated about this project....

If Larry reiterates their isnt engine mgmt.. Then I would believe it...

It's the R&D.

I have spent almost 4k just for gauges and measurement devices for my project - and that is just the beginning. That does NOT include the SC, Management, supplies, regular tools, Dyno, time, breaking things, milling, turning, TIG welding, etc, etc.

Sunflower probably knows that they will only sell a handful of kits. It's fun, but somebody has to make a living.

I think 5k ain't that bad. I do, however, agree that this is not the ideal design for the RX-8. I will do my own and it will be exactly the way I want it.

Originally posted by 1stRX8
Sunflower probably knows that they will only sell a handful of kits.

I think that the biggest market is not for the retro kits but for the super equipped cars. My understanding from this thread is that Sunflower is planning to warranty the super equipped '8s that they sell. That warranty will be a big draw.

Originally posted by JSE RX-8
just be careful with Procharger. guys over at 350zmotoring.com and my350z.com had problems with Procharger. blown engines



just be careful what you read on the internet. if people are blowing up their engines it doesn't mean it is the fault of the maker of component X. often it is the fault of the car owner or the installer of component X and improper engine management.

just be careful what you read on the internet.
Yep. It's not what you read, it's believing that needs discretion.

That warranty will be a big draw.
For sure, enough for me to fly there to pickup my 8 If I didn't already have one. The supercharged version would be less than most 350z's stock I think - only faster.

Unfortunately for most people, the warranty is thru that dealership, not Mazda.

lame

i know thats the worst part!

but 90-130 horsepower.. i mean.. that's 280-320 at the rear wheels.. that's one hell of a a boost. heck that's on par w/a lot of FDs!

Questions that need to be addressed:

1. What kind of performance gains? (DYNO numbers, not estimates)
2. How reliable/durable is the setup?
3. Specifics on the warranty. If it is only good at 1 dealership, everyone outside the KC metro area is out in the cold.
4. How much $$$$?
5. When will it be available.

I want to know where AND when it starts to make power.

Anyone in the KC area want to call/visit the famous Larry Smith and get the info?

Originally posted by KCROTOR
It will be interesting to see what it does for the tourqe. My understanding is that supercharging a rotary really boosts the tourqe alot.

What is does for torque, it also does for power. The two are inextricably related to each other.

If you double the Torque at a certain RPM, you double the Power. If you double the RPM and keep the Torque the same, you also double the Power. It is a basic property of physics.

Nowithstanding differing units:
"Torque" * angular_velocity = "Power"

Cheers,
Hymee.

Second thread:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19407&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Second thread:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27235&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

I stopped by Sunflower today to check out the car. Man that thing looks good. He has the MS kit on it and some nice 19s. I talked to Larry for about 20 minutes or so about the car. I got alot of good info. I'm going to wait and see the dyno numbers on it, but I think that I'm going to get it if the numbers are good.

I stopped by Sunflower today to check out the car. Man that thing looks good. He has the MS kit on it and some nice 19s. I talked to Larry for about 20 minutes or so about the car. I got alot of good info. I'm going to wait and see the dyno numbers on it, but I think that I'm going to get it if the numbers are good. I posted this in the other thread also.

please tell me you got pics :eek:

did you take any pics

I didnt have my camera with me. Ill be back up there next week. Ill be sure to take some pics.

Nope. Ill be back up there next week. Ill take my camera and get some pics.

and ask if you can take a pic of the keys and than steal his car :D

Its not running to its full potential. Larry said he is waiting for Maurice to finish the new PCM piggyback for it.

I stopped by Sunflower today to check out the car. Man that thing looks good. He has the MS kit on it and some nice 19s. I talked to Larry for about 20 minutes or so about the car. I got alot of good info. I'm going to wait and see the dyno numbers on it, but I think that I'm going to get it if the numbers are good. I posted this in the other thread also.


Any info worth sharing?

Just that it was goign to cost around $5500 for people who didnt buy there car there. The kit comes with the piggyback (from Canzoomer) and an exhaust. He said that the kit bolts into all stock holes on the car, and that if something happend to the car(under warranty) you could take it off and return it to stock without the dealer knowing you had it on. They are basically waiting for Maurice to finish the piggyback for it and they would be ready to dyno and sell the kits.

The s/c is easily removable, or just the piggyback?

Nope. Ill be back up there next week. Ill take my camera and get some pics.

Gimme a yell when you come up, I live 5 min from Sunflower. I am interested to hear the scoop on this car now, have they actually gotten it to work yet?

The s/c is easily removable, or just the piggyback?
He said both.

Whoa!

I am anxious to see those pics.

Thanks for doing the leg work, Jump120MPH.

Gimme a yell when you come up, I live 5 min from Sunflower. I am interested to hear the scoop on this car now, have they actually gotten it to work yet?
It is hooked up right now. The car is drivable, but with out the new Piggy back from Canzoomer they cant run the SC to its full potential. You can just go up there and talk to Larry Smith. He is a good guy. I talked to him for about 20min or so about the car. I wont be up there til Wed or Thurs.

So when is this supposed to be on the market again?

so if it easily removable than i can buy it and than just take it off if my engnioe gets effed up :D

So when is this supposed to be on the market again?
They are waiting on Maurice(canzoomer) to develop the piggy back for it. Thats all they are waiting on. Maurice has to much on his plate at the moment. He still has not finished the batch of Stage 1.1 for the 2nd group buy. That order was placed the 1st of April and it suppose to be like another 3-4 weeks before they get finished So it could be months.

Well just an update. I went by there yesterday to take some pics of the 8, but it wasnt there. It was down at MC racing getting something put on. Larry said that Maurice is done with the piggyback and it will be back at the dealership sometime next week. Ill be back up there for work and am goign to stop by. I hope they get some dyno numbers soon on it. Ill give another update next week.

Cool, thanks for the update!!!!!!!!!!

I hope their engineering is better than their spelling (see picture in first post) !!!!

Sunflower Mazda is just up the street from my house. I know Larry, he is a good guy. We have discussed this car many times. If you have some specific questions list them out for me and I will pop in and get some answers for you.

Hey SHOWOFF - is that you Art?

I have a couple...

1. I was told that they would be finished by the EOM.. is this still feasable or will it be extended?

2. How far are they away from dyno figures?

3. Do they forsee this product being available to the public from east to west coasts before 2005? Or.. will it only be for local customers....

KCROTOR, here are some pending questions.

Questions that need to be addressed:

1. What kind of performance gains? (DYNO numbers, not estimates)
2. How reliable/durable is the setup?
3. Specifics on the warranty. If it is only good at 1 dealership, everyone outside the KC metro area is out in the cold.
4. How much $$$$?
5. When will it be available.

I want to know where AND when it starts to make power.

I am starting to lean towards supercharging, well at least this week. I believe, since this particular supercharger is of a centrifugal type, full boost may be reached in the mid to upper rpm range. That is what I have heard from other tuners that use centrifugal superchargers. I remember when SCC did an article on their demo Civic, it produced somewhere around 277 hp, but it was all in the high rpm range. IMO, it defeated the purpose of bringing low-end power to the B16A. Can centrifugal superchargers be tuned to start boost at low-rpm? I know roots compressors have this ability, but what about changing the gear/belt ratios within the device to allow full boost at a lower rpm? Is that what Sunflower is trying to do? The Mazda RX-8 is in dire need of low-rpm power.

I have a couple...

1. I was told that they would be finished by the EOM.. is this still feasable or will it be extended?

2. How far are they away from dyno figures?

3. Do they forsee this product being available to the public from east to west coasts before 2005? Or.. will it only be for local customers....
I was up there on Wed. The car was at MC Racing getting some things done to it. They were still waiting on the piggyback to arrive from Canzoomer. I would guess in about a month they would have it tuned and some dyno numbers. When I talked to Larry he said that he had people in Washington on the list to buy the kit. Im sure it will be availible to everyone. Im waiting to see some numbers. If they make 100-120hp like they are expecting Ill definitely be tempted to purchase it.

I was up there on Wed. The car was at MC Racing getting some things done to it. They were still waiting on the piggyback to arrive from Canzoomer. I would guess in about a month they would have it tuned and some dyno numbers. When I talked to Larry he said that he had people in Washington on the list to buy the kit. Im sure it will be availible to everyone. Im waiting to see some numbers. If they make 100-120hp like they are expecting Ill definitely be tempted to purchase it.

Do you have any info on this new Canzoomer piggyback (god, I hate this word!)? Does it feature a MAP input and close loop boost control? And what other features?

Do you have any info on this new Canzoomer piggyback (god, I hate this word!)? Does it feature a MAP input and close loop boost control? And what other features?
I dont know anything about it.

Hey Jump120mph, When you say that the car was getting some things done to it, What kind of things are you talking about?

I might be really off on this but isn't a supercharger hp driven? So the rx8 doesn't really have much hp to begin with doesn't that mean there will be a lot of drag with this specific type of FI? Im pretty much sold on sc'ing the car just waiting for a positive displacement version.

here's a really good read on s/c
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27879&highlight=supercharger

Hey Jump120mph, When you say that the car was getting some things done to it, What kind of things are you talking about?
Im not sure what all was getting done. I think one thing was they were replacing the bracket that the SC mounts to. They were waiting on the piggy back to come in so I assume that they were going to install it and start tuning it.

I might be really off on this but isn't a supercharger hp driven? So the rx8 doesn't really have much hp to begin with doesn't that mean there will be a lot of drag with this specific type of FI? Im pretty much sold on sc'ing the car just waiting for a positive displacement version.

I'm confused about what you mean by hp driven. If you mean by engine driven, then yes. A positive displacement supercharger, such as a Roots blower (I think), might just give the RX-8 some low-end power where it needs it. Unfortunately, the boost will probably run out at mid to high-rpm. That's okay, because the tertiary ports would have opened by then :).

Any type of forced induction is hp driven.

I'm still unfamiliar with that term :confused:.

Eugene answer your damn phone!

I misplaced my phone for the time being :(.

Just a quick update:

I Stopped by and spoke with Larry at Sunflower Mazda this past weekend. Not too much new info to report, but here is what I got:
Maurice (Canzoomer) has a Procharged car and is currently in the process of tuning with his ECU. He has it tuned up to 6,000 RPM with no issues (no warning lights, no pings, etc.) He will be working on the 6,000 - up range this week and should have things completed very soon. Maurice is runnung 4-5 lbs right now and all indications are that this is not going to be a problem for the Renesis at all.
MC Racing has a car with a fully functioning kit on it, but running the stock ECU. Once they get the ECU from Maurice they should have a complete car ready to test. Larry thinks they should have this available sometime in August.
MC Racing has a dyno on site and has done some baseline runs with a stock RX-8. As soon as they have a complete car they will make some initial dyno runs for evaluation.
Larry indicates that the black project car they have is already sold and there are orders in for an addition 21 Procharger RX-8s. These orders are from all over the country despite the fact that Sunflower Mazda is the only dealership where any warranty work can be handled.
When asked what news is coming from Mazda he indicated that they are still saying they will bring out an "RX-7". When asked about engine changes such as larger displacement Larry indicated that Mazda believes the Renesis has a great deal of potential at 1.3l and they are working with a twin turbo set-up for the car. This has us both scratching our heads.
Larry also said he has a friend with a Nissan dealership and that the 350z sales are way off right now. The only thing they are selling are the convertibles. There are indications that impracticallity and harsh ride as is indicated in edmuns.com long term test is taking a toll.

Are you talking about a sequential twin-turbo setup, or otherwise?

It's good to see Maurice, Charles, et al on top of the RX-8 game :).

Do you know if there was any chance of exceeding 7 psi in the RX-8's current state of tune?

Do you have any info on this new Canzoomer piggyback (god, I hate this word!)? Does it feature a MAP input and close loop boost control? And what other features?

I was browsing through the manuals for the Greddy eManage (aka Canzoomer) and they suggest adding their 3 Bar pressure sensor into the loop if you exceed the capacity of the factory air flow meter or MAP sensor. The pressure sensor can then be used for the scale of each Map table.

More info (http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/)

Larry indicates that the black project car they have is already sold and there are orders in for an addition 21 Procharger RX-8s. These orders are from all over the country despite the fact that Sunflower Mazda is the only dealership where any warranty work can be handled.

That's pretty good since they have not published any performance specs or price.

Anyone on this forum one of those 22?

... the Greddy eManage (aka Canzoomer) ...
What? These two work together now?

Aparantly the CZ unit has always been just a "plug and play" eManage... pre-programmed maps and cables (no cutting necessary). I really haven't followed too much on it recently, but that is about what I have gathered...

Yep, they alway have been the same. The Canzoomer Stage 1 is a Greddy eManage board that has been repackaged in a generic aluminum box. It is also pre-wired and programed so that you can just plug it into the factory wiring harness. Maurice has just gone out of his way to try to make tuning our cars "plug and play". If you want to save a few bucks you can buy an eManage instead. Then you will have to spend the time to figure out the wiring and create your own fuel maps. For me, it made more sense to buy the Canzoomer so that I wouldn't have to waste my time with the wiring and base fuel maps.

Guys,
Yes, my 1.1 is working well. The stage 2 and 3 I BELIEVE is adaptable enough for FI but requires a highflow cat and midpipe and I BELIEVE also(if not mistaken) that to tune you will also need a wide band o2 sensor. I may be wrong about that. The 1.1 is a pre set but is reprogramable. Ask Omni he has had to do that because he was unlucky enough to get one of THOSE 8's that had a squirrelly maf!
olddragger

Im getting the Stage 1.1 in a few weeks. Larry Smith was saying that I would have to get rid of it if I got the S/C. Will the stage 2 or 3 work with it?

Ask Omni he has had to do that because he was unlucky enough to get one of THOSE 8's that had a squirrelly maf!Squirrley car, actually. Not sure if it's solely the MAF, although I'm sure that's part (if not all) of it.

Also, I have it on good authority that (a) the a/f and ignition advance used by the Sunflower kit is the same CZ unit we're all familiar with. It might have to be retrofitted by CZ to work with the new kit, but otherwise it's just different maps. (b) Those same said maps are pretty much done, and the car runs REALLY REALLY strong, and (c) The plumbing and some of the mounting bits are being redesigned, and the finalization of the kit is about a month out... at most, 2.

All I can say for now, so please don't ask for more details. But I figured it was time the info pool was added to a little bit. ;)

If you look in the box you will see a small yellow plug in one corner of the main board. This is where you plug in a MAP sensor.

The thing is just now running, and as I type Maurice may be doing maps. Oh, and it whines something fearce. You will not sneak up or hide the fact it's there!

It's "bolt in", but only literally. Remove front bumper cover. Remove airbox, battery box, undertray. etc. etc. Not an easy install!

Personally I don't think this (boosing an RX-8) is a good idea, but I guess I'm just too conservative. ;) I suspect the transmission will not be happy - not to mention what the motor will do. Maybe I just want my 3rd gen in exclusive territory, accelleration wise. :)

Personally I don't think this (boosing an RX-8) is a good idea, but I guess I'm just too conservative. ;) I suspect the transmission will not be happy - not to mention what the motor will do. Maybe I just want my 3rd gen in exclusive territory, accelleration wise. :)
heathen!

I'm pretty sure the stock internals including the tranny can handle 40-50 more WHP, if not we have some real issues. Miata folks have been pushing there stock tranny's beyond that with no issue, so I don't see why our tranny would be any different. Now those wanting 300WHP may need to upgrade the tranny internals some, but I think we should be able to get into FD territory in terms of power and aceleration with out to many problems if the FI kits will work.

Stock FD's can hunt 911's when bored, I think thats enough power for me.

Stock FD's can hunt 911's when bored, I think thats enough power for me.

Only nonturbo 911's and even that is a big challenge.

How much power do you guys think this car needs before it can compete with the best of them? IMO, I'm looking at 360+ rwhp. However, this car weighs significantly more than the FD3S, and is a tank compared to the Elise (out of its league?). Where do we draw the line on performance, without compromising everything else?

Only nonturbo 911's and even that is a big challenge.
Key word here is "stock"

350 rwhp will turn the 8 into a real mean street machine able to compete with the big boys as long as they are mostly stock. Any 911 Turbo, modified Z06/Cobra/Viper will still be a tough bag to handle. But to push 350 to the wheels we are looking at some high boost applications. One can only cross their fingers and hope...................

this car weighs significantly more than the FD3S, and is a tank compared to the Elise (out of its league?).

I thought the FD was 2850lbs or so. That's only 150 less than an 8 [give or take] Not that big of a deal.

....I think a 4 rotor twin turbo 1000whp would be about right for the RX-8. With minor modifications to a very large bank account - It could be done.

Probably have to get a certification from the FAA as well.

Honostly, I would never be "done" until I reached that rediculous point. "Hangin" with a 911TT is not NEARLY as good as blowing the paint off the doors. As a comparison an RX-8 with $100k in modifications would equal the cost of 911TT and probably beat it in all areas except creature comfort.

acosta racing has a 900 hp rx-8 of course it has an engine out of a FD

No, it has an engine out of a Cosmo. Its a 20B turbo.

jds

But at some point you have to hit diminishing returns. If you were oing to spend 100K for a sleeper 8 that can take down anything on the streets, it might not be a bad idea to get the Porsche your trying to beat in the first place. Besides, if you really want to embarass someone, put the 100K into a sleeper Hyundi or something. A viper owner could probably justify being beat by a 8 "since it is a sports car", but they would probably never admit to anyone that an Elantra took away their pride.

Agreed.

I hope I am not crazy enough to spend 100k on an RX-8 - it's simply not that kind of car. As for the Hundai.....I have a minimal level of acceptable aesthetic appeal. Regardless of performance, the Hundai is embarassing.

thanks for the clarification bureau13

Any updates about the Sunflower RX-8?

well, maybe I will drop a bit of info on you guys. I have personally met the guy who is now doing the ecu piggyback tuning for the sunflower mazda rx-8. He will be running 8 pounds of boost in a couple weeks. right now he is just working on puuting a proper pulley system .

never mind, I just finished reading the whole thread. I guess it is known that canzoomer is tuning the kit. I was at his house last weekend and It looks good. Just needs "tweaking". Sounds good too.

Awesome. I hope this idea doesn't become vaporware.

Trust me, it's not. We are reeeeeeeal close.