Hey guys, haven't been here in QUITE a while. I've been so busy in trying to graduate that I haven't even had time to come to the forums.

I had some time this weekend, however, to go up to ABQ and test drive (for the third time:p ) a Nordic Green RX-8. I'm getting very serious about buying a car and it's a TIGHT race between the RX-8 and a TSX. it's about 70/30 right now with the car decision. However, my dad is VERY biased against Mazda, stating that Mazda is "junk" and they are total crap. Now, he has been using Toyotas all his life and just getting his hands dirty with Hondas.

Why am I making a big deal out of this? My dad might co-sign for me when I buy a brand new car (looking at Jan 2005 when I can get a sizeable down payment). Therefore he also factors in this purchase.

What I want from you is personal and professional feedback that Mazda makes a SOLID, RELIABLE vehicle at the level if not greater than Toyota or Honda.

Yes, I know that this may sound weird, but I was raised in a very conservative family where I grew up on the belief that Mom and Dad are always right.

Anyway, HELP ME OUT!

While Mazda's quality of production has definitely increased, I'm under the assumption that the Rx-8 is not quite on par with the Honda Accord - Acura TSX, in terms of reliability and longevity. It might just be a stereotype, but my family has an old honda accord with near 200,000 miles on it, that never had any serious problems. While I'm no expert on the rotary engine, or on Mazda's production standards, I'm not expecting my Rx8 to last as long as the family accorrd.

#1 Make sure you want a sports car first. These types of cars generally take a bit more maintenance (tires, clutch, etc.), depending upon how you drive.

#2 How long are you going to keep the car? This question will also decide what TYPE of car you really need.

If you are adamant on getting a sports car, then remember, Mazda has a FOUR year/40k mile warranty compared to Toyota's THREE/year 30k. Aside from a Honda Prelude and a Cougar (don't ask!!), the last cars we've bought have ALL been Toyota's. I had more problems from the Celica GTS the first week than I am having with my 8!
My opinion: Each car is distinct and may or may not be a lemon. Just the roll of the dice!

We simply have no idea how reliable the RX-8 is going to be.

Now, the Mazda Miata is absolutely one of the most reliable cars on the market. Has been for years. I had one that I sold with 176,000 miles on it. It was trouble-free.

So, Mazda is just as capable of making a reliable car as Honda or Toyota.

I ended up with my 8 after actually renting a loaded Mazda 6. I was blown away with the level of interior quality and thought I should check out the 8. I remember what the Mazda line up used to be like and it now seemed so much better. Test drove the 8, and the rest is history.

Lesson is that you simply have to get dad to go look at the car.

Originally posted by loco4rx8
We simply have no idea how reliable the RX-8 is going to be.

Now, the Mazda Miata is absolutely one of the most reliable cars on the market. Has been for years. I had one that I sold with 176,000 miles on it. It was trouble-free.

So, Mazda is just as capable of making a reliable car as Honda or Toyota.

Same here. I've a 9 year old MX-6 for more then 7 years now. Never had any problems!

From my POV buy a TSX. You won't have any major concerns and will save you from the little headaches that the 8 currently has. They are both excellent cars but for reliability purposes you cant beat a Honda.

Originally posted by Meowloud
#1 Make sure you want a sports car first. These types of cars generally take a bit more maintenance (tires, clutch, etc.), depending upon how you drive.


I'm not a racing type of guy, though I do occassionaly take trips (even my 85 Camry) to redline. However, I NEVER use the car in a racing-type attitude. I want the appearance and ability of a sports car with the usefulness of a trunk and four seats

Originally posted by Meowloud


#2 How long are you going to keep the car? This question will also decide what TYPE of car you really need.


I plan on keeping it for AT LEAST six years.

If the rotary engine scares your parents, tell them to forget the 3rd gen Rx7 (twin turbo) and look at the 2nd and 1st generations of the model. They are reliable and fun well into what would normally be "high mileage". There is no reason to believe IMO that the Renesis won't serve the vast majority of us in the same manner. As far as build quality, have him take a test drive, he should be won over.
Good luck.

get the april issue of conumer report, it might help.

yes, in that mazda is ranked right after honda in reliablility, and several mazda cars are more reliable than hondas. For example the Mazda 6 4cyl was rated more reliable than the accord. Having been the owner of a 97 CRV that went past 200k mi, I would hope that the Rx8 would do the same and at least break 100k mi. I do maintain it properly.

Just don't listen to your parents, they are probably older then you anyway!

Originally posted by AltecLansing
get the april issue of conumer report, it might help.

What he said (may appeal to the purely analytical mind - not sure about your Dad).

Also one could argue that ANY Japanese car sold in the US is of high enough quality to raise it above the 'junk' status compared to ???? {insert your favorite definition of TRUE JUNK cars}

Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Honda, Subaru are certainly above junk.... Lexus, Infinity, Acura are 'supposed to be' in another, higher one.

Also note that only a handful of "Japanese cars" are actually made in Japan ---- the RX-8 being one of them... and IMHO this ACTUALLY bestows these 'true' Japanese cars YET ANOTHER edge in quality.

Try any of these reasonings on him :) Good luck!

I am older than your father. I learned to drive in the family Studebaker and my grandfather considered Studebaker to be junk next to his Packard. I do value a well made car.

I have owned three Toyotas, six Hondas, and two Mazdas along with Fords, Chevys, VW's and many more. I now drive the RX-8.

Mazda is a very reliable brand, though not across the board up to the Toyotas and Hondas. The Mazda Miata, though, is among the very most reliable sports cars. Who knows about the RX-8--too early--but Mazda is clearly not junk.

I don't think I would co-sign for my son to buy one, though, because he has a lead foot. I might tell him it was junk.

I had two Rx-7s, each of which gave me many years and many miles of trouble-free driving. Much better, for example, than the Volvos I owned. I'm looking forward to a long relationship with my RX-8.

Now, if you had asked about my Fiat 128, I would have given you a different story.

my parents bought 1988 Mazda MPV 4cyl standard minivan and I have to say it was prob. the msot reliable car I've ever seen. They still drive it regularly with its 250,000 miles on it and has never really been in the shop. Sweet, eh?

When I was doing research I looked at the history for NA rotary engines and found that for the ones that didnt mess with them they where good ones, and even with some tinkering they seem to be very strong and long lasting. Also I really think Mazda has improved their overall line quite a bit over previos offerings. Sales have been strong and the cars overall have all been pretty solid.

I bought a new EX V6 626 in 2000. Its 4years old now. Totally maintenance free so far. Feels very solid and just as well made as my Honda Accord I owned a few years before. It has the best of Toyota and Honda in one car. Mazda had some quality control and financial problems in the early 90s but has overcome them since being partially owned by Ford. Mazda always had the engineering and presently makes a very decent car on level with or better than Honda/Toyota. If you don't beleive me check Epinions on the net. The late model Mazdas get very positive comments for reliability and value. Especially the Mellenia and the 626.
Your dad apparently does not know much about the company and its progress in reliability in recent years. The rx8 promises to be one of the most reliable sportscars as it benefits from its earlier siblings engineering in the Miata,626 and Mellenia. The Mazda 6 is another example of high quality and engineering with value. You can't go wrong with a Mazda. It's one of the best kept secrets in automotive. People overlook this Manufacturer because of past problems and reputation in the early 90s.
It will be your loss if Pops says no. Good luck

Whether he says yes or no, it will be my decision. I just want to look for somebody to co-sign in case they turn me down. In that case, I would have to put a monstrous down payment (is that correct, or is that a myth?)

1. mazda is a japanese company. they dont have anything better to do than invent hightech stuff and make cartoon porn. thats why japanese car manufacturers are on top of the game when it comes to quality.

2. ford owns a controlling part of mazda. the ford GT eats ferraris, lambourghinis, and porsches for lunch...all for the low low price of about 150,000 yankee dollars.

3. tell your dad to stop being so ignorant. any car can last if its been treated well and maintained properly.

I was in the very same position you were in about a month ago. Being 17 years old, it's a bit hard to finance a car, but a cosigner makes everything better. After the paperwork and about 900 miles, I can say that its probably the best car I've ever owned (and I've been through 4 if anyones curious). It comes standard with all the saftey options you would ever need and is a very smooth ride, while not sacraficing power or handling. The gas and oil consumption isn't too practical at the moment, but what sports car is when it comes to gas and oil? It's manufactured by Mazda and comes standard with a 5yr/50k Mile warranty, so if it does happen to have a defect, they will repair it. Overall it's probably one of the best choices you could make in the 30K price range.

OK, it's 1969. My father, who was paying, dismissed the car **I** wanted to buy as "junk" so I wound up with a 1969 Cutlass S (stolen in 1971). Nice car, lucky kid, can't complain. But the car **I** wanted to buy, for the same price, was a BMW 2002. Kids do tend to be more up to date on future value than their parents.

BTW, my 1988 Mazda 626 5-door turbo ran without a hiccup from October, 1987 until November, 2003, when totaled by a guy who ran a red light. However, it protected me very well and the engine was STILL purring as when new, even though the whole front end was wrecked.

This having been said, think hard what you want the car for. But Mazdas ain't junk. My '93 626 ES is now owned by my next door neighbor and my son has a great Protege5. The only 2 lemons I ever owned were a 1971 Toyota Corolla and a 1980 Pontiac Phoenix. Now, THAT was junk.

Good luck and lucky you. You can't go wrong.

Thinking I may be on my own on this one. Do you think I can finance this on my own with a sizeable down payment? Or do still need a co-signer?

My 8 is my fourth Mazda. I have other vehicles and therefore have never used my Mazdas exclusively - but they've always been my primary vehicle. Here's my experience:

1980 Mazda 626 (2-liter piston engine, 5 speed, 2-dr. coupe). Bought new and put ~215,000 miles on it (long daily commute). Sold it to an employee and when last seen, had ratcheted up to 245,000+. Major service: re-built the front end at 105,000 because I wanted to - not because it needed it. Clutch. Fried the transmission input shaft bearing lugging it in 5th for maximum gas mileage. Blown head gasket at ~115,000 due to a high spot on the block casting. Cooling fan clutch.

1986 Mazda RX7 (first year of the 2gen, 5 spd Sport model). Bought new and still have it, showing ~204,000 miles. Major service: clutch, logicon (hvac controller), power steering pump, added Mazdatrix' fuel injector fix to cure flooding problems after 100,000 miles. Radiator.

1994 Mazda RX7 5 spd Popular Equipment Group). Bought new and still have it, showing ~91,000 miles. Major service: vacuum hose replacement (preventative), rear main oil seal.

2004 Mazda RX8, 6spd. Bought new, currently have ~3,200 miles.

This totals 513,200 miles in Mazda products over a 24-year span. They've undoubtedly been helped by the fact that they live in Southern California, and that I've taken care of them. But in that time span, I can recall only once that they didn't get me where I was going (broken fan belt on the '86).

'Nuff said.

Thinking I may be on my own on this one. Do you think I can finance this on my own with a sizeable down payment? Or do still need a co-signer?

I had little to no credit and bought my Miata right after college. I used my paid for Mustang as the down payment. They gave me 6k for it. Really it depends on your credit. If you are graduating from college then it isnt to hard to buy a car by yourself. If you want say a MT Sport package and you can get the dealer to sell for 26-27k you should be good. If you have a job I would think the minimal amount for a DP would be 4k maybe?? But who knows, it is all about the numbers and you maybe able to put nothing down depending on your credit and/or job history. Hell, you may be able to get a 32k GT model. Who knows. I would just go in there and see what options you have if you really want this car. Life is too short to let your dreams become "what-ifs".

When you make an investment in a car always buy what you want. Never settle for less, if you do you will always be thinking about the car you should have bought.

Originally posted by rev-2-9k
When you make an investment in a car always buy what you want. Never settle for less, if you do you will always be thinking about the car you should have bought.

That is so true it isn't even funny.

The first two "new" cars I bought were while I was out looking for a truck. I finally bought the truck in 98 and I have had it ever since and no regrets.

As far as the downpayment and whatnot... it all depends on your debt to earnings ratio. That is what basically decides your credit rating. I was upside down on my trade and still had to put some cash down but not what I would consider a lot.

As long as you are in "A" tier or "1st" tier (depending on the company) you should be good. I believe that this would mean you would have to have about a 700+ score on your credit.

Keep in mind that everytime someone checks your credit it dings your credit. Just an FYI.

I think if you get your credit report straight from Equifax it does not ding you and I think it gives you your score. Anyone know that one?

Originally posted by ozbot87
Whether he says yes or no, it will be my decision. I just want to look for somebody to co-sign in case they turn me down. In that case, I would have to put a monstrous down payment (is that correct, or is that a myth?)

The downpayment will probably depend on your credit rating and how much income you have. If you have a steady job it should be no problem.

I'm just now retiring my 93 MX-6 with 231,000 miles with the original clutch and only one major engine repair, which was to clean out and rebuild the EGR system to pass NJ emissions test. No complaints about reliability here. Hoping to have a new 8 soon.

Originally posted by ozbot87
Whether he says yes or no, it will be my decision. I just want to look for somebody to co-sign in case they turn me down. In that case, I would have to put a monstrous down payment (is that correct, or is that a myth?)

After credit cards, auto credit is just about the easiest to get. If you have a job and a credit card and have never missed any payments you should have no problem with the loan with a 10-20% downpayment. Unfortunately Mazda's offering cheap financing on everything but the 8. Go to Lendingtree.com or autobytel.com and you can have your financing set up before you go the dealer, which will put you in a better bargaining position.

I wouldn't worry about Mazda's quality, including the RX-8, since Mazda seems to be addressing these quality issues. I would buy whichever car you like best since you'll be stuck with it for years. Mazda is probably a notch or two lower quality than Honda or Toyota but the Mazda "zoom-zoom" makes up for it IMHO.

I've got a 1989 Mazda MX-6 with 167k. Still runs but is beat up like hell. I had a few emissions problems in the first 2 yrs (fixed under warranty) but after that, it's been great. Only major repairs were exhaust, power steering leaking, struts, CV boots, brakes, and they were all mostly due to wear and age. Engine is still good but cam/valves need repair.

I've got a 1996 Toyota Tacoma with 67k. I had some initial problem with the oxygen sensor and parking brakes (adjusted wrong from factory and dealer didn't fix it), but they are all fixed now. Toyotas are not perfect and the gas pedal/throttle body sticking is a common complaint! The Tacoma isn't fun to drive (zero zoom-zoom) but it's reliable and extremely tough mechanically. Also Toyota dealers are worse than Mazda dealers to deal with.

I've worked on many Chrysler products, some GM products, etc. as a backyard mechanic. Mazda is better than these brands overall.

wow, this weekend i test drove my third one, and it was nordic green too.......hot coincidence

I'm curious why he thinks Mazdas are junk when compared with other Asian automakers?

The RX8 would be my first non-German daily driver in years but I'm more than comfortable with everything I know of current Mazdas. The Miata is one of the most reliable cars in the road and everything I've seen and read about the new 3, 6, MPV and old Protoge models leads me to believe the RX8 should be a pretty reliable car when stacked next to a Camry/Accord.

I won't talk down Honda when it comes to reliability. I know they have a great reputation but I've had a lot of friends with problematic Accords and Civics over the years. Top that with miserable service and sales accounts at several local dealers and you won't find me at a Honda dealer....ever.

-Eric

So far my RX8 has had less prolems than my Sequoia. My Sequoia had a problem where the cable that ran from the open gas cap lever to the mechanism broke, three different times. There is no way to get that cap open by prying, it is really reinforced and if I didn't have nearly full tanks of gas then I would have been stranded. But the Sequoia has 110k mi on it. My RX8 has worked fine, and everybody that I know that has a Mazda hasn't had a problem with it, and they are ranked good for reliability under Consumer Reports.

Over the last dozen years or so, I've owned a Honda, an Acura, and three Mazdas (including my 8). My experience with all five cars has been the same: excellent. Of those five cars, the Acura needed the most repairs, but I also kept that one the longest (6 years, 65,000 miles). For what it's worth, my last three cars have all been Mazdas. I even kept my Protege ES when I bought my 8 because I like it so much. I never thought of myself as much of a brand-loyalist, but I sure have enjoyed driving Mazdas over the years.

Originally posted by mfreilly
After credit cards, auto credit is just about the easiest to get. If you have a job and a credit card and have never missed any payments you should have no problem with the loan with a 10-20% downpayment. Unfortunately Mazda's offering cheap financing on everything but the 8. Go to Lendingtree.com or autobytel.com and you can have your financing set up before you go the dealer, which will put you in a better bargaining position.

Hmm...I've made about 5 late payments (none more than 30 days) in the four years I had my credit card. Will that adversely affect me?

Hmm...I've made about 5 late payments (none more than 30 days)

Want to feel better? I have a 120 day late on my credit because one my student loan holders said I left school (I didn't) and hit me with a 120 day later (long story) anyway. After I got myself right side up on my Explorer I put 500 down. You should be fine.

HOW OLD IS YOUR DAD? what's his beef with mazda's?

Originally posted by zoom44
HOW OLD IS YOUR DAD? what's his beef with mazda's?

He's 54.

I do not know what his beef with Mazda is. He was weaned on Toyotas in Pakistan and when he went with Chevy, Pontiac, and Buick, they all failed. Now he lives by the code of RELIBILITY. Which isn't bad. I tend to do the same. But he is a bit more close-minded than I am.

He only buys Sony, Toyota, and Panasonic stuff.

I don't. Sony has problems, Toyota is getting too boring for me and Panasonic, well, I still like Panasonic a lot. So no beef with them.

Like I said, I can always find some other way to get the car I want.

Originally posted by KrustyKlown
Want to feel better? I have a 120 day late on my credit because one my student loan holders said I left school (I didn't) and hit me with a 120 day later (long story) anyway. After I got myself right side up on my Explorer I put 500 down. You should be fine.

Feeling better indeed. :D

I'm of your Dad's vintage. I had an Mazda RX7 for 21 years and it was a great car! No major problems for the life of the car and it still looked and drove great the day I sold it, to make room for my 8. I had no hesitation buying a Mazda again.

As with all cars, just take care of it. Do the routine maintenance. Keep an eye on fluid levels. When you sense changes in the way the car drives, investigate the cause. I was able to fix little problems before they became big.

Both the RX7 and RX8 cars seem to love to be driven. The harder the better. Sometimes (usually in winter) I would let my 7 sit in the driveway for a few weeks at a time. Driving it after that wasn't pleasent. Everything was stiff. But a little spirited driving brought back the eagerness I came to love in these Mazda cars.

Originally posted by ozbot87
Hmm...I've made about 5 late payments (none more than 30 days) in the four years I had my credit card. Will that adversely affect me?

Typically they don't count it as late until 30 days. I've had a few that were under a week late that had no adverse effect.

As someone else stated it really is too early to tell about long-term reliability for this vehicle. Mazda tends to do a pretty good job overall.

As for rotaries the last incarnation of the RX-7 had lots of problems but the RX-8 seems to have steered clear of those design issues (turbochargers, inadequate cooling).

The bottom line for your Dad, as co-signer, is risk. As long as you arrange for the term of the loan to not be longer than the warranty there is little or no risk to him as a co-signer since any repairs will be covered.

If that doesn't satisfy him I'd suggest making do with something used; save your money and build your credit so that you can purchase what you want on your own terms.

Originally posted by JasonHamilton
I highly recommend capitaloneautofinance.com

I had poor credit after losing my job with AT&T and being unable to find another one for a full year. During that time I racked up 25k in credit card debt.

I never missed any payments on my 80k RV loan, but that didn't stop my credit from dropping to around 540 range.

I applied with capitaloneauto, requesting a 25k loan. Instead they preapproved me for 43k. So I can go to the dealer, pick up any 8 I want, and don't even need to put a down payment.

They also don't charge for pre payment, so I can do the 35k car today, and send them 5k next week and lower my payments.

the interest rate isn't that great - 9%, but as I pay down my bills my credit will rise and I can always refinance in a year.

How much are you paying per month?

By the way, what were you at AT&T? Were you an engineer?

I bought my RX-7 new ... after 148k miles it still loves to be reved. Orginal red paint ... no rust ... spent far less on insurance, maintenance, and repairs then friends that bought the 944.
My Milennia "S" with the Miller Cycle engine and Lyshom supercharger is far more complicated than a Camry.... 119k miles Pearl mica paint ... I've only done regular maintence to this car ... no major repairs... 9 yrs old ... dealers think it is only 4 or 5 yrs old.
TSX vs The 8? front wheel drive vs rear. The TSX has lots of content so does the 8. I enjoy cruising in my stealth "S" but when I want to drive it is time for the 7 or the 8. Change lanes, go around a corner, find a twisty road front wheel drive simply is not as satisfying nor fun as rear wheel drive.
Buy the 8 and drive it!

Mazda's factory survived the bomb blast on Hiroshima. If that doesn't convince you of longevity, nothing will!!! ;)