Here is a thread between a local Mazda dealer and myself after I went to www.kbb.com and clicked on the "free price quote link". This discussion is the result, enoy.
This is after I asked why they were so much over MSRP.

From Me:

Yes at $5000 over invoice the demand should meet your limited supply and no thanks on the four-banger Mazda-Ford6.

In this economy I will not pay 1 penny over invoice; I would consider a dealer lucky to get invoice for any model car at this point in time. There will be people that over-pay for this car so enjoy the influx of lunk-heads while they last.

From Dealer:

rfowler@sunnyvale.mazdaleads.com wrote:

Hi Mr.

The reason for the markup is the extremely limited supply, All vehicles in limited supply are marked up in this fashion The hummer H2 is 7 to 10 thousand over msrp the chevy ZO6 is 6 to 9 thousand over msrp when the new ford thunder bird first came out they sold for as much as 56 thousand dollars. and the list goes on and on. I think if you try other dealer web sites rather then on line buying services you will find similar prices besides if they have no way to get the car what difference dose the quote make for instance some online buying services are quoting msrp on there web sites but can they actually get the car if mazda dealers won't sell it for that as for the deposit this is the beginning of the purchase process and this number is not out of line for down payment . If at delivery the customer wants 100% financing arrangements can be made at that time. IF you are looking for a more reasonably priced car we would be happy to sell you any in stock Mazda6 for 500.00 over invoice. This is a sport sedan car and driver compared to the BMW 3 series and the AUDI A 4 for more information on the new Mazda6 go to our web site at http://www.sunnyvalemazda.com
Thanks Rob

Robert Fowler
Sunnyvale Mazda
(408) 738-1976
ZOOM-ZOOM !

They have to put food on their tables too and market value will determine any mark-up, just like real estate. I'f you're a homeowner I'll bet you arent crying over the appreciation and will gladly sell for 3-4 times it's original "invoice" price. One penny over INVOICE? If the cars don't sell, the mark-up if any will be reduced. You should have pre-ordered MSRP before January 15.
You will be a lonely guy for drawing the line at dealer invoice, as you watch the "lunk-heads" take delivery of theirs. Maybe you better go man-handle Nissan for a 350Z or G35 coupe. Sounds like Sunnyvale was up front with you.

I think you've confused "invoice" and "MSRP". If you won't pay a penny over invoice, then the dealer will make $0 on the sale. I won't pay over MSRP personally. Hell, half the time I wait for a movie to come out on video rather than pay to see it in the theatre. :)

My idea is that dealers will price over msrp at first, then when it goes the way of the Mazda6 and the 350z where no one is buying it, then they will discount.

Fëakhelek, you are right. I wrote invoice instead of MSRP. This was the second e-mail back and forth from this dealer. They like to gouge out here as much as possible. Where is the Saturn experience? Too bad Saturns are junk.

As far as putting food on their table, give me a f*cking break. MSRP is high enough.

Toadman, I am a home owner and did not become one by over-paying for my toys. You can be first in line and pay an extra $5000 and I will find the right price elsewhere.

If anyone knows a good CA dealer, let me know.

Concurring with everyone's comments, and attempting to clarify:

You should NOT pay a penny over MSRP. If they are asking over MSRP, take your money elsewhere!

If, on the other hand, you are demanding the car at invoice - well, then I want some of whatever you're smoking, friend. No way anyone will give it to you at invoice. There's no way they CAN! Not if the RX-8 is to be a success. Maybe a year or two from now, you can work a deal at invoice, but this is PRE-ORDER, bro! You gotta pay if you wanna play. That includes the recommended Premium petrol!

B-Nez sets mode to -soapbox -rants

Edit: Okay, just read your replies. You meant MSRP - cool. FYI, I am getting the first one at my dealership not because I paid over, but because I started their waiting list last year. I'm paying MSRP.:cool:

Originally posted by Fëakhelek
I think you've confused "invoice" and "MSRP". If you won't pay a penny over invoice, then the dealer will make $0 on the sale. I won't pay over MSRP personally. Hell, half the time I wait for a movie to come out on video rather than pay to see it in the theatre. :)

but athome you don't get the big screen or the big sound....and it's only 8-9 bucks, instead of dropping 20K+ on a home entertainment system to mimic that of a theatre.

at least there are some movies worth seeing on the big screen....

Originally posted by mjgc0

As far as putting food on their table, give me a f*cking break. MSRP is high enough.

haha, tell that to all the millionare/billionare's in this world. why do they need all that money? even if you make a over a million each year, you'd think that'd be good enough, wouldn't you? greedy people will always be greedy....and you get more greedy with more money you make. there will be a limited few who might be an exception. the mentatlity between us and them are completely different, something you and I can't understand cause neither of us has had the experience of being truly wealthy, not just well off.

there's nothing wrong with paying MSRP, it just sucks knowing that maybe as time goes by, you'd have the opportunity to pay close to invoice, but that just goes along with supply and demand. of course this is a mass produced car, unlike the Audi RS6, BMW M5, etc....it's not like the rx8 is playing at that level, but definitely unique.

Just a frustrated/annoyed comment on my experience today with the car and dealers...

I've been going back and forth all day with a dealer telling me that since everyone is selling the car from $2000-$7000 over MSRP, in spite of the fact that I listed off places that WERE offering MSRP, and he supposedly called one of them and verified that they were selling them for MSRP, he was still trying to convince me to come buy one from him for so much over.

And this, in spite of the fact that he knew I work for auto retailer.

I am so frustrated. I have a meeting with another dealer tomorrow who says he will give me MSRP. We'll see what happens- he is probably going to jerk me around too. As much as I love this car, I'm not catering to greedy dealers- at MSRP they're making at LEAST $2k, usually more, AND they get the benefit of knowing that if I need to get car fixed, I have to come back to them since there aren't exactly tons of places that can fix a rotary. I'm starting to wonder if maybe I should just wait a year and get one when we start getting them on our lots at work.

Originally posted by Fëakhelek
If you won't pay a penny over invoice, then the dealer will make $0 on the sale.Not true. See this article (http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html?tid=edmunds.a.landing.buying..5.*) at edmunds.com for an explanation of how a dealer can sell at invoice and still make a tidy profit.

I think we all know that some dealers were going to try and screw us. Mazda will have to get this under control or the Rx-8 will not be a seller. It needs to be a seller.

It's the classic law of Supply and Demand. How much do you want the car? If you are not willing to pay the price, then you don't want it that much. Currently other lunk-heads want it more than you. They are willing to pay the price.

This is basic business economics. Don't knock the system. The dealers have to eat too. And if they aren't selling any cars, they will lower the price.

Sounds like you don't want the car that much or are not willing to shop around. The dealer I choose with my pre-order on-line wanted $2k over MSRP, so I went to a different dealer and am paying MSRP, unfortunately since they are selling at MSRP, they had already sold out thier first alotment. My baby is in the second batch coming in July just because I took one extra day.

If you want to be first on the block @ MSRP, you needed to be in line along time ago. Sorry if it sounds like I'm siding with the know-nothing greedy dealers. I am not. I am just siding with proven economics.

The dealers are not the idiots, the uniformed, got-to-have-it-now-at-any-price people are.

***ON SOAPBOX***

I am now in escrow to sell my home which I bought for 4 years ago brand new for $812k. What is someone willing to pay for it? The wonderful sum of $1.35m. Why did the price jump so high so fast??? Because I did my research and bought into a small private valley that was quickly filling up. Immediately after the new homes sold out, the only way to get in the valley is to buy an existing home. KA-CHING! I'm paying cash for my 8.

CAPITALISIM: SUPPLY & DEMAND. Respect it. Protect it. Use it to YOUR advantage. Otherwise we will all end up driving Trabants (originally posted Trubants, thanx eccles).

***OFF SOAPBOX***

IMHO

mjgc0, I guess there was a miscommunication with Dealer Invoice vs. MSRP. That was what I was challenging, but the law of Supply and Demand will rule. If you're patient, I'm sure mark-ups will decrease like the S2k. Depends how soon you really want one so shop around. Mazda was very considerate to let the die-hards who've been here for a year take first stab at it at MSRP with a pre-order and dealers who would accomodate, vs. the ludicrous Ebay auctions. Very commendable for a car company, IMHO. :)

Toadman, that's part of what some of us, at least, are upset about- these are the pre-orders that are going for way over MSRP. And yes, that's supply and demand, but that also doesn't mean we all have to like it. I imagine people were going through this at the beginning of January when the pre-orders started, as well.

I knew what I was getting into when I decided to buy the car. Doesn't mean I have to like arguing to get a price that isn't going to screw me.

:p

i am confuse. :confused: you guys are talking about the msrp only, right. However, the out door price will more the the msrp because the excludes tax, title, and license fees aren't including in the msrp. so, do you guys are counting the out door price is over the msrp, too?

I'm expecting to pay an extra $1,100-$1,200 on top of whatever I pay the dealer for the car for those. Which is yet another reason I don't want to pay more than MSRP. And I'm assuming there's also going to be another $99-$199 processing/documentation fee, that is completely dealer profit, on top of that.

Originally posted by Puppy1
Otherwise we will all end up driving Trubants.That would be Trabant (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.project601.com%2Finha lt%2Fdreamcars%2Fdreamcars.htm&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools). :)

Yikes! I would say that is butt ugly, but I actually like my butt better than that car.

You are all correct that it is simply the law of supply and demand. I was simply posturing for the dealer when I mentioned that I would go get a Z instead. I am not interested in the 350Z. More likely, I will wait until price comes in line with reality. As wonderful as the RX-8 will be, it is not a BMW or Porsche and it's mission is to come in competitive in the 30K range. I think it will succeed if it does come in at this target range and I do want to see the RX-7 breathe again.
Dealers would always have you believe that you should spend more and get less. A cubic zirconia looks just like a real diamond!

Anyway, if anyone has found a dealer recently that is decent, I would appreciate a point in their direction. The dealers in Silicon Valley are greedy and not competitive with the outlying areas.

And I did mean MSRP not invoice, sorry for confusion. I just think it is a crime to charge more than MSRP as it kills the mission of the car to come in and compete in a price range but again, supply = deman. Those willing to pay more than MSRP will drive the price factor upwards. Case in point is the 13K Miata that sold well over 20K when that wasn't its target price point to enter the market.
I guess the bottom line is I want to pay MSRP and yes I can wait for the second or third or fourth shipment, dealers just better hope that all the people out there like me don't start wanting a different car before the price falls in line with MSRP.

Mazda's web site kinda sucks for getting more than three dealers at a time (it would be nice to get every one in, say, northern cal at once), but you can just go down the list and call dealers and ask their pricing policy. I posted in the West forum what my personal results were, although there's lots of dealers that I didn't try - I was going to try up in Marin and Sacramento next.

I ended up with Capitola Mazda in Santa Cruz, who aren't marking up although they have a big (refundable) downpayment. They don't have large allocations either, although they were the most knowledgable and have had preview RX-8's by their dealership before or after Laguna Seca testing.

Thanks for the tip. I will keep them in mind if things go well and I find myself able to afford a new car soon. Santa Cruz isn't that far from me.

the final word on the whole buying car for MSRP is.. some dealers are doing it.. some aren't... the dealers that are doing it deserve praise here in the forum...

(MODS, how about a "locked thread" run by a moderator or someone with some time on their hands (like me) with dealers and sales managers who guarentee MSRP (or very close to MSRP)

-- for instance my dealer here Jeff Haas in Houston, 0 dealer markup over MSRP , however they do add 1 dealer option in the form of a paint/interior protection package.. only 300$... not to bad for someone who lives in the Texas heat and expects the paint/interior to show signs of fatigue.

I ordered mine from Gunther Mazda here in south Florida, and they charge $0 over MSRP. They have also said that they will be receiving cars starting in April... a might earlier than everywhere else.

Originally posted by JTek_55
I ordered mine from Gunther Mazda here in south Florida, and they charge $0 over MSRP. They have also said that they will be receiving cars starting in April... a might earlier than everywhere else.

Tampa, FL (Brandon Mazda) at MSRP.

I am pretty sure that dealer gave you a line of crap. According to the E-Mail I received from Mazda last week, they are starting build in April. Shipments should start arriving in July.

Suburban Mazda in Troy, MI. Not a penny over MSRP and no forced packages or options.

From Mazda's "Pre-Sell FAQ" (Accessed from the "Build & Order" page at mazdausa.com):

Q: How long can I expect to wait to take delivery of my MAZDA RX-8?
A: Mazda dealers will place orders with the factory three times during the Pre-sell Program period. For orders placed in
January, expect delivery between June -- August 2003. For orders placed in February, expect delivery between
July -- September 2003. For orders placed in March, expect delivery between August -- October 2003. Please
keep in mind that these dates are guidelines and may vary depending on the order.

I would also trust email directly from Mazda although there have even been some discrepencies between emails people have posted (on other questions like the CD changer).

Originally posted by deks
I ended up with Capitola Mazda in Santa Cruz, who aren't marking up although they have a big (refundable) downpayment.

What do you consider a big deposit? I put $1k down with them, which seems pretty normal.
________
M43 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_M43)

I would say that any more than $1000 is not necessary. I only put down $500 which is refundable.

-- for instance my dealer here Jeff Haas in Houston, 0 dealer markup over MSRP , however they do add 1 dealer option in the form of a paint/interior protection package.. only 300$... not to bad for someone who lives in the Texas heat and expects the paint/interior to show signs of fatigue.

What is that package... Scotch guard, armor all, and a wax job.

In the state of today's economy it would be foolish to pay anything over MSRP.

Originally posted by PUR NRG


What do you consider a big deposit? I put $1k down with them, which seems pretty normal.

They wanted $3k from me, although I think if I had either contested it or could actually have gone down there, it might have been less. I was rather busy at the time and could only do it over the phone, plus I wanted a spot in their first allocation, so I think they wanted to make sure I was serious. It was refundable and it's not like I won't kick out the money later so I didn't care too much - I suppose I could earn some interest or whatever on $2k, but it wasn't really worth fighting over.

damnit ive gotta go freking pre-order. Im def on the list, but i gotta freking order, what do you guys think my chances are of gettign a spot (in the First Batch) this late in the game?

I live in NJ, and when i went, NOBODY was interested in the rx-8, so i think i hsould be fine, with my particular dealer.
________
Extreme Vaporizer (http://extremevaporizer.net/)

DAMN! that was my 100th post, and i didnt even say anything worth while.....
________
Voyeur german (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/1153/german/videos/1)

it is a "warranty" that covers the paint / interior against fading. cracks , peeling whatever .etc (i haven't read the fine print) that they replace it free of charge... for 5 yrs I beleive... opposed to the 3/36,000 that Mazda will offer, which I assume will be limited liability anyhow...

i can see if i can get a copy of the "package" to post.. in the South Texas climate i am sure its worth it

Originally posted by said7
What is that package... Scotch guard, armor all, and a wax job.

Originally posted by DrKillJoY
it is a "warranty" that covers the paint / interior against fading. cracks , peeling whatever .etc (i haven't read the fine print) that they replace it free of charge... for 5 yrs I beleive... opposed to the 3/36,000 that Mazda will offer, which I assume will be limited liability anyhow...

i can see if i can get a copy of the "package" to post.. in the South Texas climate i am sure its worth it



3/36?? Try 4 years/50,000 miles. Personally I think the warranty ROCKS. 24hr Roadside assistance. It's nice to know that you are under warranty for the duration of your payments. Sucks to be paying for a car and have to pay for repairs yourself. Go to www.mazdausa.com/rx-8 and print a window sticker for warranty info, etc.

Greetings Everyone,

I've been lurking on this board for a few weeks since my wife put down a deposit. Thought it was a good time to post my first forum message.

Mine was bought at MSRP, $2000 refundable down payment at Ferman in Tampa, FL. Since I decide against the Infiniti G35 coupe, and was sure this was the car I wanted, I didn't mind putting down so much. Plus the dealer was very willing and thrilled to sell at MSRP, especially when my wife told him we'll pay the balance in cash. :D


Cheers from Qatar,
Mark

__________________
2004 RX-8
Velocity Red
Black/Red Leather
6SP/Grand Touring

$500, $1000, $3000... does it really make a difference? Are these dealers actually cashing your checks? Mine needed a check just to be able to assign the car to me, but he isn't cashing it. Might as well be 5 grand! :) It doesn't even have to be 'money down' at delivery.

For those of you in South Texas, I highly recommend World Car Mazda in San Antonio.

Originally posted by DrKillJoY
the final word on the whole buying car for MSRP is.. some dealers are doing it.. some aren't... the dealers that are doing it deserve praise here in the forum...

(MODS, how about a "locked thread" run by a moderator or someone with some time on their hands (like me) with dealers and sales managers who guarentee MSRP (or very close to MSRP)

-- for instance my dealer here Jeff Haas in Houston, 0 dealer markup over MSRP , however they do add 1 dealer option in the form of a paint/interior protection package.. only 300$... not to bad for someone who lives in the Texas heat and expects the paint/interior to show signs of fatigue.

If you pay that extra $300 dollars, your paying over MSRP. That paint/interior package should be standard. They just put stuff on the sheet so that you might just ignore it and pay it. The only things that should be on there are Tax, Title and License Fees.
If they say they have to put it on there. It's just Bull$hit, make sure you scratch it off before you make your final purchase, and don't be afraid to walk out. They hate that, and the salesman usally gets ripped by his manager if a customer walks out. I'm sure they will be on the phone shortly begging you to come back to the dealership. Don't let them threaten you with, well I'm sure I can sell this to someone else. Because it's much easier and quicker for them to sell to you. Your ready, and if they call you on your bluff. There is always another dealership, or car. Just don't get attached that you won't walk away. If they know your in love with the car, and just have to have it. They will try to get every extra cent out of you.

Originally posted by khoney
$500, $1000, $3000... does it really make a difference? Are these dealers actually cashing your checks? Mine needed a check just to be able to assign the car to me, but he isn't cashing it. Might as well be 5 grand! :) It doesn't even have to be 'money down' at delivery.

For those of you in South Texas, I highly recommend World Car Mazda in San Antonio.

Yep, I put a $1000 down and they cashed my check like there was no tomorrow.

i spoke to MAZDA and they told me that MAZDA was discouraging additional dealer markups and requested me to provide me the dealers name--I am not sure what they will do with the information

You are welcome to send them the name of the dealer on my first post in this thread. I won't lose any sleep if he gets his hands smacked.

I can't believe the arrogance that they have thinking that the public will just throw in a few extra thousand becasue there are no RX-8s on the road yet. I don't want the car to project an image; I want it because of practicality and new technology, not exclusivity. There will of course be a few people with money to burn that can fork out the extra thousands without a second thought but I am not one of them and am soured on the whole dealer scene and this is why. Why can't Saturn's brand of salesmanship catch on? Too bad Saturn doesn't have any exciting cars, (in my opinion).

Someone should take a poll to see if anyone on this board is willing to pay thousands for exclusivity rights.

Originally posted by MaRX8


If you pay that extra $300 dollars, your paying over MSRP. That paint/interior package should be standard. They just put stuff on the sheet so that you might just ignore it and pay it. The only things that should be on there are Tax, Title and License Fees.
If they say they have to put it on there. It's just Bull$hit, make sure you scratch it off before you make your final purchase, and don't be afraid to walk out. They hate that, and the salesman usally gets ripped by his manager if a customer walks out. I'm sure they will be on the phone shortly begging you to come back to the dealership. Don't let them threaten you with, well I'm sure I can sell this to someone else. Because it's much easier and quicker for them to sell to you. Your ready, and if they call you on your bluff. There is always another dealership, or car. Just don't get attached that you won't walk away. If they know your in love with the car, and just have to have it. They will try to get every extra cent out of you.
I preordered at this dealership (Jeff Haas Mazda in Hosuton). Yes they added a $300 charge for the paint protection option which I was told about and agreed to (in the euphoria of car buying) and immediately forgot about. A few weeks later I checked the invoice and wondered about the real value of this option to me (i.e. is it a scam). I called the salesperson and said I don't want to have the paint protection package and they replied "no problem - it will be removed when I buy the car". So I would call it a 'recommended' option as opposed to a 'forced' option by that dealership (which I am very happy with BTW).

Is this paint protection and leather sealant package worth $300 or is it just a scam? Should I get it or not - I could get the car detailed several times for that money...

Originally posted by pelucidor

I preordered at this dealership (Jeff Haas Mazda in Hosuton). Yes they added a $300 charge for the paint protection option which I was told about and agreed to (in the euphoria of car buying) and immediately forgot about. A few weeks later I checked the invoice and wondered about the real value of this option to me (i.e. is it a scam). I called the salesperson and said I don't want to have the paint protection package and they replied "no problem - it will be removed when I buy the car". So I would call it a 'recommended' option as opposed to a 'forced' option by that dealership (which I am very happy with BTW).

Is this paint protection and leather sealant package worth $300 or is it just a scam? Should I get it or not - I could get the car detailed several times for that money...

No. Absolutely do NOT buy it. They don't even do anything extra for that money. Think about it, how would you know if they sealed the leather or the paint? You don't. It's just a scam that they are hoping you don't notice/care about. It is pure profit right off the top plain and simple.

Originally posted by MaRX8


If you pay that extra $300 dollars, your paying over MSRP. That paint/interior package should be standard. They just put stuff on the sheet so that you might just ignore it and pay it. The only things that should be on there are Tax, Title and License Fees.
If they say they have to put it on there. It's just Bull$hit, make sure you scratch it off before you make your final purchase, and don't be afraid to walk out. They hate that, and the salesman usally gets ripped by his manager if a customer walks out. I'm sure they will be on the phone shortly begging you to come back to the dealership. Don't let them threaten you with, well I'm sure I can sell this to someone else. Because it's much easier and quicker for them to sell to you. Your ready, and if they call you on your bluff. There is always another dealership, or car. Just don't get attached that you won't walk away. If they know your in love with the car, and just have to have it. They will try to get every extra cent out of you.

I have the brochure at home and it is more than a simple wax job and it does cover your car for five years. I have the exact language at home and it is pretty robust and fair in the stated coverage. Jeff Hass is the only President's Club and Full-circle service dealership. Jeff Hass won't sacrifice their status over poor warranty service. I'm confident that the $300 service and warranty aren't meaningless.

And, I usually can't stand any dealer add-ons but this was reasonable and I accepted it. Yes it is a high profit item but there is a big difference between $5000 over sticker with nothing to show for it and a $300 dollar paint and interior treatment that does have a nice warranty.

I was actually in-line to get a G35 coupe, but the dealer add some meaningless junk in and it turned me off. I cancelled and walked out.

Jeff Hass was reasonable so I am getting an RX-8 instead and I'm glad I waited.

-Mr. Wigggles

I have to agree with everyone who says not to let them charge the $300- it's like the $300 window etching and undercoating spray stuff. Just because they're a reputable dealership doesn't mean they're not going to try to get a little extra profit. For that matter, the processing fee that they're probably charging you(since Texas does allow them, unlike other states) is all dealer profit too. It doesn't cost $99-$199 just for the business office to process paperwork, I promise you. Mazda doesn't make such crappy cars that the paint/leather should need a warranty over top of whatever the 48 month/50k mile warranty covers. With normal cleaning/waxing, you're probably going to get the same results as whatever they're going to do. So of course they're offering a warranty, as they probably know nothing would ever happen, or at least very rarely, that would make it necessary for them to pay for repairs. I would think long and hard before letting them add that one there.

Oh course, I can't see the actual warranty information you're talking about, and I haven't looked at what the standard Mazda warranty covers, so it is entirely possible that I'm wrong. And if I am wrong and it's a legitimate option, please don't flame me, just point me in the direction of whatever this stuff is so I can request it too.

Back in the days I used to do PDI(Pre-Delivery Inspections) detail, and add accessories like mudguards and pin-striping(gag) to cars for Honda. You CAN do it yourself but the stuff does work, and most dealers will include the empty treatment bottles if asked, and you can smell and see it. Put a drop of water on a seat and see if it runs off. I don't know if they still undercoat the wheel wells and floorpans anymore, but it does deaden road noise. We used a product called Thermoguard for paint sealing, interior stain-proofing, and undercoating, but I don't see them on the web. Ask them to apply the "scotchguard" to the floormats in addition to the floor carpeting if you get the protection package. Floormats are usually the last option installed before delivery.

OK, so maybe I was wrong. I just don't trust dealers, I guess! Thanks for setting me straight Toadman :)

You're not wrong at all. Vehicle Protection Packages ARE a dealer profit option, but not as much as accessories or extended warranties. :)
You can always DIY with Autozone or industrial stuff, but it's very unlikely you'll get the dealer to reimburse or clean/replace stained upholstery or paint contamination if you don't purchase the option and use stuff like Scotchguard/Turtlewax paint sealer etc., especially when something that can be questionably attributed to a factory defect similar to the 93 RX-7 "thin paint-chipping" issue in early production arises. It's not mandatory whatsoever, but the odds are in your favor if such a defect arises under the factory or DEALER protection package warranty period. Read the fine print on the package if you opted for it for warranty info. If you are uncomfortable with the added expense, say nay.

That's also applicable to all mods that may violate emissions standards or void the factory warranty. Maddening, huh? Be smart, check your emotions in at the showroom door, and read the fine print on everything. If you're satisifed by all means go for it and take delivery of a bitchin' car. ;)

hey elara as far as window etching goes it might be a good idea. i saw a program on discover recently about recovering stolen vehicles. they were able to find most of the parts from one vehicle, that had been stripped and strewn about a junkyard, back to its owner because of VIN number etching on all of the glass. the chop shop had removed 90% of the vin #'s elsewhere on the car but had not gone to the trouble of replacing all of the windows. they also tracked one that they found that had been stolen, sold at an auction to a dealer and then sold as a used vehicle to an unknowing customer. because of the vin etched glass they were able to trace the owner who it was stolen from and return it to them. so it does help, if your vehicle is ever stolen, in the recovery and prosecution of the chop shops and thieves. :cool:

Yeah, it is a good idea- but only if you do it yourself with one of the kits available (they cost about $29-$39, look here (http://www.vicescript.com/home.htm) or here (http://www.windowetch.com/) ), or get the police to do it (They'll do it for free in some cases). My point was that convincing customers to pay $300 for it is just a way of padding dealer pockets, since it's just as easy to do it yourself for cheaper.

Just to add fuel to the fire I do have retail pricing on the RX-8.

6-Speed Hi Power Version @ 68,500.00 NZD
4-Speed Automatic Version @ 65,500.00 NZD

Divide that by 2 to get USD :D

Also when do you US guys get the RX-8 ?

Actually they do....I hear what your saying and I am impressed with oyur faith in Mazda....however, I think a trip to www.alldata.com to see all the recalls and TSBs on paints and dash plastics in the last 12 years might open your eyes a bit.. the most famous example of course being the afore mentioned 1993 RX-7.

I never said it was a good option, or something I reccomneded to others, but in a world where other dealers are marking up the cars to heaven's knows what prices it is a reasonable alternative... especially since you don't have much choice... Haas is up front about it..$33.100 driveout.. loaded TT&L..it doesnt make them great or anything...


make mine Titanium and with 6 forward gears... Zoom Zoom...



Originally posted by Elara
I promise you. Mazda doesn't make such crappy cars that the paint/leather should need a warranty over top of whatever the 48 month/50k mile warranty covers.

Originally posted by Elara

My point was that convincing customers to pay $300 for it is just a way of padding dealer pockets, since it's just as easy to do it yourself for cheaper.



yes totally agree with you there. thanks for the links

For $300 US I could buy enough Zaino products to last me 10 years. :)
I never understood the "processing fee".. don't the clerks get paid a yearly salary to do this? Why do we have to pay extra on top?

Originally posted by zoom44
hey elara as far as window etching goes it might be a good idea. i saw a program on discover recently about recovering stolen vehicles. they were able to find most of the parts from one vehicle, that had been stripped and strewn about a junkyard, back to its owner because of VIN number etching on all of the glass. the chop shop had removed 90% of the vin #'s elsewhere on the car but had not gone to the trouble of replacing all of the windows. they also tracked one that they found that had been stolen, sold at an auction to a dealer and then sold as a used vehicle to an unknowing customer. because of the vin etched glass they were able to trace the owner who it was stolen from and return it to them. so it does help, if your vehicle is ever stolen, in the recovery and prosecution of the chop shops and thieves. :cool:

Yeah, but would you want your car back after all that? It's almost like having your personal space violated. Isn't that what insurance is for? Yes the Vin etching can help with recovery of your car, and that's why insurance companies support it. Because if they do recover your car, they don't have to pay out as much. Sometimes, it's best to just let it go. If you really want to prevent your car from going to the chop shop, get a Lo-jack. It's expensive but it's probably the best preventive thing you could do.

it makes sense when the car hasn't been stripped but just given false papers and sold at an auction. the more places the vin is on a car the less likely they are going to erase all of them. and no one wants to go to the expense of replacing all of the glass.

one guy on the mazda6 forums (www.goonish.com/atenza) said he had a very nice experience at Menlo Mazda in Redwood City with a salesguy named Andy. he also mentioned that the sunnyvale dealer wasn't too great which you probably know by now. menlo mazda is off the Whipple exit on 101 i think.

didn't take time to wade through the thread, so sorry if this info has already been posted.

Dealers in the US cannot legally sell NEW cars in NEW CAR department over MSRP. What they might do, it's buy them for themself & transfer them to USED car sales lot & sell them for more over MSRP. This it's currently being done with most high-end Benz & BMW.. I've been seeing this tactics used in S2000, G35 & Rx-8... But, you can complain the dealer to the manufactures consumer affairs. Since now, some manf. like Nissan/Mercedes are cracking on those dealers.

We sell the RX-8 here for full retail.

$68,500.00 no discount aviliable

Nothing more nothing less :)

Rian

Originally posted by amgtortoise
Dealers in the US cannot legally sell NEW cars in NEW CAR department over MSRP. What they might do, it's buy them for themself & transfer them to USED car sales lot & sell them for more over MSRP. This it's currently being done with most high-end Benz & BMW.. I've been seeing this tactics used in S2000, G35 & Rx-8... But, you can complain the dealer to the manufactures consumer affairs. Since now, some manf. like Nissan/Mercedes are cracking on those dealers.

Actually they can. MSRP is just the "manufactuers SUGGESTED retail price". They can sell them for as much or as little as they want, unless the manufactuer prohibits them from doing so. At least thats how it is here in GA, maybe regulations are different in other areas. I know the BMW dealerships were doing exactly what you described with the E46 M3 when it was first released, but thats only because BMW doesn't allow them sell over MSRP.