I had plans to lease a car this summer, the RX-8 was a good choice, well it WAS a good choice.

Even though the price of the US market has been finalized with Base price $25180 and loaded to the gills at $32000 (US dollars); I thought here in Canada, after price discriminations, it should be around $32,000cdn for a base. But now I've heard rumours that it is going to cost 40K to buy one in Canada.

Now the idea of $5000 down then $300/mth sounds like a joke.

The RX-8 is a good car, or should be a good car; but it is no monster compared to the 350Z, the STi or the EVO8. It lacks the torque.

The 350Z (280HP) is $44,900cdn for touring model;
The EVO8 (273HP) is a bit steep at $48,000cdn
The WRX (227HP) is $34,995 as well, subaru is making plans to bring the STi over

On the side note, the 2004 Maxima with 260HP is coming in RWD! Just $399 a month and 0 down payment.

If Mazda doesn't make their price more competitive, I'll be heading to the Nissan dealership faster than you can say Zoom-Zoom :p

Or I goto the states to pick up a FD3S.

I am sure your Maxima will weigh hundreds of pounds more then the 8. So you definately wont be going faster, even with 13 more HP.

Also be careful. Nissan recently posted their spec-V having 180hp, but in reality that was not bhp, but actually the hp off the motor, with no transmission attached.

You will be giving up great handling, sports car fun, and sexy looks from hot babes for what? A few thousand. That and you may never know how sweet it is to drive a renesis powered car.

For me. even with the savings presented here, The RX-8 winds hands down.

While rotary drivers are racing, maxima drivers are watching!

http://www.renesis.ca/images/toplogo.gif

good luck...

I have been all over the leasing aspect with my "dealers" here in town and with Mazda NAO. It looks like leases won't even be a thought until after the inital impact of the car has passed (see early next summer)... heck the pre-order allocations won't even be done until September / October.

lol... if its gonna be that much trouble to get a RX-8 and if its gonna be that expansive, I'll rather pay a few grand more for a 350Z or save a few grand and buy the WRX than wait for the car until next summer.

Not many people are rotary fans like us. The NSU rotary were horrible cars. Many wouldn't like the high rev of a renesis. If the price falls into the 40K range, Mazda will be competiting with the 350Z, Q35 Coupe, EVO8, STi WRX, as well as the new stang and the 2005 Supra MK5.

The 350Z and the Q35 Coupe have already proven to rule their class in 2002; the EVO with its 4G63 and the WRX's CP9A tuned by STi are both exetemely reputable cars in Asia; specially the EVO which have spranked many Skyline GT-Rs in different occasions. The EVO's YAW control is flawless as well as being able to produce 80% of its HP output below 3000rpm. The stang had always been the choice for many Americans as well with the Supra love being so crazy this year, the 2005 MK5 will have its own little turf.

Don't get me wrong, the RX-8 is a good car, with 247HP@ 10,000rpm and an suspension system that would make the old Supra look like a Corolla. The mid-ship design with the engine now being only 33.7cm from the ground means even better 50/50 weight distrib to improve cornering. But the RX-8 have many worthy and strong competitors out there. Even for my love of the RX lineup, I wouldn't blindly choose a car until I see the offers from other car makers.

you said maybe get an FD??? spend the money, get an FD, put enough money into it as you'd spend total on a Z, and you're gonna get one helluva better car.

The FD is a good car, but I have school and work and I can't afford to maintain a car like a FD.

A bad apex seal = kaboom! = $5000 rebuilt motor from Mazda + take bus to school for 1 month.

If I get a FD (which cost like $20,000cdn here), or $16-17,000cdn if from the US. I might as well rebuilt the motor and both turbos as well as replacing the clutch and some of the weaker gears in the tranny. Its better to upgrade the seals and do the porting work before it blows and take out the entire housing. After all that, I would have spend almost $28,000 dollars to get a 10 year old car.

it is 10 years old, and it's also a helluva lot better than a Z, in every single way. also, it has more aftermarket support, has a rotary engine, and IMO looks a whole lot better (worlds apart).
if you find a good one, upgrade the entire cooling system (rads, oil coolers, intercooler, hoses, a louvered hood, late model j-spec nose, even pumps?) and the vacuum lines, drive it properly and take good care of it, it's not going to just blow up, and STILL be way the hell faster than a Z; although yes, you're probably lookin' at an interior that's not even close to new, little switches and things that might need replacing, a transmission that (more often than not) is a little beat up... if i had a choice though, it's pretty obvious what i'd choose. :) just an opinion.

*whispers loudly "GET THE FD!!!"*

btw, what school you go to??

The main reason for me to get a new car is that I need to get something that is reliable. Something that wouldn't have a slight chance of breaking down on my way to school (UT) or work.

If I were to choose a 2nd hand car, I has to be the FD (or 240SX or 300ZX) hahaha...

Originally posted by EEE
has to be the FD (or 240SX or 300ZX) hahaha...

:eek:!!! how can you say that?? 240SX or 300z??? :eek:!!!!

blasphemer!! :D heh heh heh, jk bud... :cool:

Originally posted by EEE

...breaking down on my way to school (UT) or work.

For our non Canadian members UT is the University of Toronto.

Originally posted by EEE
The RX-8 is a good car, or should be a good car; but it is no monster compared to the 350Z, the STi or the EVO8. It lacks the torque.The renesis is a smog motor. The reason they changed the ports was to increase gas milage and reduce emissions. That killed any torque the motor had. So they ported the motor a bit to make 250bhp and use that in their marketing scheme.

Easily fixed. Something like this:
Port being blocked
http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/PORT/pp2.jpg
New port on the right housing, left is the stock housing.
http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/PORT/pp1.jpg

Originally posted by DrKillJoY
I have been all over the leasing aspect with my "dealers" here in town and with Mazda NAO. It looks like leases won't even be a thought until after the inital impact of the car has passed (see early next summer)... heck the pre-order allocations won't even be done until September / October.

Okay, here's a little about leasing. The following applies to Canada because of our tax laws...but may be similiar where you, but in any case, check with an accountant first.

You should lease for only 2 reasons

u cannot afford the car because its too expensive
you gain a tax advantace = tax write off


If you cannot afford the car, you are stupid to lease. You can get 7 loans for cars now, which would make owning an expensive car easy on the pocket book. These long loans are the same as leasing. Here's why. When you lease you make payments for usually 36 months, after which time you may keep the car if you pay out the residual. That residual amount is usually more then 50% of the original price. So what do u do at that time.. Spit out 24,000 bux or go get a 4 year loan to buy it out. Maybe you should have got the 7 year loan in the first place. The bonus is, if you dont like tha car you can sell it and get out of the loan, but in a lease, you will most likely not be able to get out of it, so you will be stuck with a car you don't like.

If you own a business and you lease, you can write it off. At the end of the lease, you give the car back and start leasing again. What happens is you drive the car at less then 1/2 the cost of owning it, because of the tax write off's.

Now here is the part that kicks ya in the pants. The tax laws in Canada are very very restrictive for any vehicles that cost more then $30,000, and leasing a $42,000 RX-8 becomes almost impossible if you want the tax advantage.

So wheather you can lease an RX-8 from the dealer or not, leasing makes no sense for this car. If you want it, just go and get a loan.

http://www.renesis.ca/images/toplogo.gif

Originally posted by EEE
The FD is a good car, but I have school and work and I can't afford to maintain a car like a FD.

If you cannot afford an FD, you cannot afford an RX-8 either.

I suggest you concentrate on school and graduate at the top of your class and you will most likely get a good job. Then you can afford an 8, or an FD

http://www.renesis.ca/images/toplogo.gif

A question was raised as to where do you get 7 year loans.

There are several credit unions here in Manitoba offering them.

If your provincial credit unions don't offer them, try Winnipeg.

Nice analysis of leasing vs. a longer term (7 year) loan Evolv...

A couple of things to consider before jumping in. First, with a 7 year loan the depreciation on the car will far outstrip your ability to build equity in the vehicle for at least 3 to 3 1/2 years. This depends, of course, on the amount you put down.

Secondly, make sure you have gap insurance. If you total the car, but you owe more on it than it is worth, you have to come up with the difference. Gap insurance protects you .

Finally, before getting a seven year loan, calculate how many miles you drive a year. Do you really want to be making that big payment on a 5 or 6 year old car with 110,000 miles on it?

Otherwise, I agree in that purchasing is usually a better plan than leasing...

Originally posted by jbebernes
Secondly, make sure you have gap insurance. If you total the car, but you owe more on it than it is worth, you have to come up with the difference. Gap insurance protects you .

Nice catch.

I hadn't thought about a 7 year loan for myself, so I never thought about gap insurance. That and (as far as I know) gap insurance is not available in Manitoba, due to the fact that we have public insurance.

But I have to agree, any loan, especially long term ones should have gap insurance... It might be tough enough payen for 1 rx-8 never mind 2.

so what about people who want to dump the car in 16-22 months.. for something else... say an MPV, Protege or even a 2006 RX-7 :)

I'm still sort of awaiting Mazda Canada to reveal the MSRP of the RX-8. Tell me more about the 7 year loan.

I suggest you concentrate on school and graduate at the top of your class and you will most likely get a good job. Then you can afford an 8, or an FD

Its difficult to concentrate when you aren't driving a nice car, no?

:p

Originally posted by EEE
I'm still sort of awaiting Mazda Canada to reveal the MSRP of the RX-8. Tell me more about the 7 year loan.


:p

Check my post in this thread dated :02-03-2003 01:57 PM

Originally posted by dr0x
The renesis is a smog motor. The reason they changed the ports was to increase gas milage and reduce emissions. That killed any torque the motor had. So they ported the motor a bit to make 250bhp and use that in their marketing scheme.

actually, that is completely false. the new port layout has done little to "kill" the torque the engine "had"... a naturally aspirated 1308cc Mazda produced Wankel motor has never had a torque curve remotely like that of the RENESIS: not only is this motor increadibly powerful (for a unit of its size), it'll have a low idle, be pretty okay on gas, better on emissions, and DRIVEABLE...
it's true that perhipherally ported motors make ungodly amounts of power at 9500rpm (like, say, 300 or something), but they are unbelievably peaky (which means, yes they don't have much bottom end), terrible on gas, hard to drive (with a really choppy idle just under 2k rpm), and expensive to make with the whole blocking and filling and porting procedure...

in any case, the RENESIS hasn't had its torque "killed", but enhanced with the variable length intake system, breathes pretty damned well for an all-sideport layout (as it may be good for well more than 250hp), among these other real world advantages.

Originally posted by Evolv


Check my post in this thread dated :02-03-2003 01:57 PM

Does anyone how of a bank in Ontario that would do a 7 year loan? I don't have much credit backgrounds other than the fact that I'm getting OSAP from the governement. I never had any other need to borrow money until now. Does anyone here work at a bank? Any hook ups?

Originally posted by EEE


Does anyone how of a bank in Ontario that would do a 7 year loan? I don't have much credit backgrounds other than the fact that I'm getting OSAP from the governement. I never had any other need to borrow money until now. Does anyone here work at a bank? Any hook ups?

i am curious to know this as well. i was planning on trading in my celica to lease the rx8 (and eventually buyout). a 5 yr financing would kill me in monthly payments, even with close sto 10G down. a 7 or even 6 yr finance would be great.

The local credit unions in Manitoba are offering 7 year loans for cars.

I just checked with the Bank of Montreal and they have loans that are longer then 5 years.. here's what they said

repayment period of one to five years with longer amortization available depending on the borrowing purpose


I am sure your bank will provide some answers. If your serious and you can afford the car, they (banks) will be happy to loan ya the KASH.

If the banks wont help, try a credit union. There are many in Ontario.

Goodluck and post a picture of your new 8 when u have it.
:D

thx Evolv

btw, i'm the one the emailed you about renesis :D

Originally posted by Evolv


Now here is the part that kicks ya in the pants. The tax laws in Canada are very very restrictive for any vehicles that cost more then $30,000, and leasing a $42,000 RX-8 becomes almost impossible if you want the tax advantage.



Evolv,

Do you now for sure that the 30,000 restriction is refering to the MSRP? I thought that it was refering to the amount of the lease that you are making payments on (50%?)

I am in business for myself and I have been writing off my vehicles for 4 years now. My first was a 1999 Jimmy @ $43,000, currently 2001 GrandPrix $38,000 and now the RX8 at $42,000+.

Maybe I'm in deep kaka!!!!

Does anyone have a jump on the leasing particulars in Ontario? Any ideas what the ALR is coming in from Mazda Canada Finance? Any input would be appreciated.... I spoke to my dealer yesterday and he did not have any concrete numbers as of yet...

The ALR for the Mazda 6 is 7.1% , the highest rate of the Mazda family. Some say because the demand is greater then availability. Once they start to have stock sitting on the lots for a while it should go down to the same level as the rest. Now if we are to translate that to the RX-8 with only 700 slated for Canada in 2003 then we may be looking at >7.1% :( Keep in mind that dealers get a very nice piece of that lease rate from the banks (they also get a piece of the action from the AFR).

Originally posted by RX8ER


Evolv,

Do you now for sure that the 30,000 restriction is refering to the MSRP? I thought that it was refering to the amount of the lease that you are making payments on (50%?)

I am in business for myself and I have been writing off my vehicles for 4 years now. My first was a 1999 Jimmy @ $43,000, currently 2001 GrandPrix $38,000 and now the RX8 at $42,000+.

Maybe I'm in deep kaka!!!!

I had a brief discussion on this last year with my tax-lady...

What I got from her was. When you lease, you can only claim amounts up to the $30,000 threshold. Maybe I understood her wrong, so if you find out anything else, please PM me.

I have to meet with my accountant next week over the 2002 taxes, so I will ask her then for a better explaination.

Hey Evolv, I have one of those tax-ladies too. I will ask her the next time I see her which should be soon. But if you find out sooner let me know, Ok?

Originally posted by RX8ER
Hey Evolv, I have one of those tax-ladies too. I will ask her the next time I see her which should be soon. But if you find out sooner let me know, Ok?

Maybe we have the same tax lady.. Where U from??

Whitby, Ontario

A couple of years ago I got a Miata as my company car. Just over the 30K limit. This is the understanding I got from my accountant.

If you purchase a car for the company, you depreciate it 15% the first year and 30% each year after that to a maximum initial value of 30K. So the first year of ownership the depreciation was 30K * .15 = 4.5K, second year (30K - 4.5K) * .3 = 7.65K, third year (25.5K - 7.65K) * .3 = 5.355. etc. until the value of the car is just about gone. Usually after 4 years. The neat thing is that if you buy the car at the end of the first year you get the 15% deduction regardless of how long you have owned the car. I got a 4.5K tax break even though I bought the car on Dec. 31. you can also deduct the interest paid on the whole amount of the loan.

If you lease a car the the whole lease amount can be taken off because it is an out and out expense for the business. But you don't get any depreciation. There may also be a price limit for a leased car but I don't think so. The one gotcha here is that the lease amount must be "reasonable" so if someone thinks they can get the company to pay most of the cost of the car and then they can buy it for pocket change after the lease is up, it won't work. Don't know how they know but I don't want to find out.

In the end, if you are buying a car less then or close to the 30K limit, buyiing or leasing come out the same tax wise. Above that amount leasing comes out a bit better but at the end you don't have the car.

I usually don't care if I have own the car at the end of the lease. I like the fact that I get to drive a new car every 2 to 3 years.

I'm definately Buying (5 year loan)... If, after the RX-8 is payed off, I'll probably just go out and get something else to drive, and gut my 8 for racing. Could be a lot of fun... but no fun at all if I then have to shell out the resot of the cost to buy out the lease.

I'll probably be leasing since I have a small business and can write the payments off..

Does anyone have any interesting financing alternatives specific for Ontario? Royal Bank has a "royal buy back" (looks similar to a lease) but probably wont touch a "new" vehicle like an RX-8 (at least thats what they told me). I'm still trying to compute some other alternatives. Any other players offering a 7-8 year loan? My situation has changed (I currently and have prev leased my cars) but now dont use my car that much for business purposes.

Does anybody know the lease rate for the Rx-8 yet? I'm talking about the top model. From what I know, Mazda is not exactly known for their cars' residual values. I'm leasing an Acura RSX-S now.

At this time MNAO are not offering lease rates on RX-8s.

I am waiting ot get confirmation on this from MNAO, however this has been the story from many dealers.

Currently the demanc is higher for buying the cars than they can supply. Once the demand slows down (Spring/Summer 04) you should be able to lease freely.

Originally posted by DrKillJoY
Currently the demanc is higher for buying the cars than they can supply. Once the demand slows down (Spring/Summer 04) you should be able to lease freely.

Perhaps someone on this board can give a guestimate on what it will be?

Originally posted by Avonord


Perhaps someone on this board can give a guestimate on what it will be?

welcome Avonord... they're around here (thoe guesses i mean), just use the Search button, up top under the rear right tyre of the blue RX-8 in the title graphic. :)

Originally posted by wakeech


welcome Avonord... they're around here (thoe guesses i mean), just use the Search button, up top under the rear right tyre of the blue RX-8 in the title graphic. :)

Thanks wakeech. I should know better given that I run a vbulletin board myself. Sometimes people are just lazy, I guess, and that includes myself. http://www.avondalecommunity.com/forums/images/smilies/biglaugh.gif

Anyway, from what I found, the estimate is around US$400/month. That's in fact pretty close to my RSX-S. But only time will tell the exactly #. http://www.avondalecommunity.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif