Well, here goes.

For some reason, I have been thinking about the RX-8 recently, and for some reason I keep thinking that I should trade in my 01 Camaro SS for an RX-8. Now, this switch would seem rediculous, exspecially since these cars are complete opposites.

I love my Camaro, and the ability for the car to just all out haul ass is very appealing. Getting sideways in 3rd gear always brings a smile to my face, and the car has been able to outhustle some cars that I surely thought would walk me. However, for some reason I am thinking about switching over to the RX-8, even if the car is rated at only 230~ ish HP vs. the underated 325 that the F-Body is putting out. Many reason for this come to mind. May be the dated styling, or the larger then usual proportions, or the typical GM interior.

It just seems like everything the Camaro isn't, the RX-8 is. I love the body styling, I love the layout of the interior, and I have heard nothing but great things about the fit and finish. Also, the car seems to have that "new" appeal to it that makes people to their heads. That is something that my SS doesn't seem to do quite so often anymore.
However, as much as I like the RENESIS engine, im not liking the specs. From what I researched, its an oil hog and the 1.3 litre gets worst gas mileage then my 5.7 litre V8. Whats the deal here? Is this tradeoff worth it?

However, I still do not know too much about the rotary engine? Does the engine have a redline to it? My line of thinking is that I could use a nitrous kit to make up the lost HP that would bring it into the range of my Camaro, and the rotary would not be pr one to failure like a conventional engine.

The car may handle enough to make up for its HP deficiet, but do you possibly think the RX-8 could ever toe up to an F-body stoplight and d r agstrip wise anytime soon? Is this justified or do I just have issues. I would really like some input from the Mazda community, exspecially drivers who also migrated over from the Domestic muscle scene.

Go test drive one see what you think. As for a head turner the 8 is one big time. I drive down the road and just smile as I watch all the other cars and pedestrians rubbernecking to look at my ride. It's a blast.

you need to go drive one. There are some mods that make up some of the lost HP. Look in the vendors forum for Canzoomer.

The rotary does have a redline. They need to rev to get lots of power and the redline is 9000. As the dealer told me on the test drive: "Floor it. When it beeps, shift" That happens pretty quick and it is amazingly smooth getting there.

greese

Originally posted by LoKnLoD
Go test drive one see what you think. As for a head turner the 8 is one big time. I drive down the road and just smile as I watch all the other cars and pedestrians rubbernecking to look at my ride. It's a blast.

I went to dinner with my Mom last night. It is the first time she has seen the car since i got it. People kept going across the parking lot to look at it and show their kids. My mom was flipping out but im pretty used to it by now. Happens all over the place.

greese

The RX-8 should out handle the F-body in almost every way. However as you have pointed out it is way down on power from an LS1. This single aspect alone may be hard for you to get used to. I've driven my friend's Z28 a couple of times and it is amazing how much torquier those cars are. I can only compare the power difference as being a Cessna pilot who got a chance to fly an airliner.

The Renesis does get worse gas mileage than the LS1 which is pretty pathetic. It isn't due to the fact that the engine doesn't have the ability to get good gas mileage, because it does. Mazda just put a really lousy ecu tuning into this car and then came up with a host of excuses why. People are still cracking this ecu and are slowly edging up the gas mileage. Power increases from tuning have been huge. Canzoomer has his stage 1 that gives 20+ more rwhp just from retuning. This is without any other mods to the car, not even an intake. With a high flow or removed cat and his stage 2 kit, 40+ rwhp is possible. Rick Shaw makes a very nice fully programmable ecu as well. Others such as Racing Beat are working on their own versions as well.

Exhausts are getting some small gains. Different companies quote diffeent numbers (obviously) and we still haven't seen an independent test between many of the different systems yet. There are also a couple of intakes out there. Again, these are getting small gains. A light flywheel is also a big performance improvement.

I think after all is said and done, the Renesis in it's naturally aspirated form will have stock LS1 potential once tuned properly. It will still feel nothing like an LS1 though as you will always have to rev it up high to really get going. I'm not sure if the engine is capable of topping 300 hp without help but the car is still fairly light compared to an F-body so the power to weight ratio should be comparable.

So far only a few people have done nitrous successfully. Some have reported good gains and others have blown theirs up. This all goes back to the ecu tuning issue. A small shot will probably be fine if done properly. The LS1 can handle 125+ hp shots stock so don't expect a Renesis to do this.

The RX-8 is a very good car with some bugs that need to be worked out. Most of them in the ecu. With the advancements that we have seen in just the past few months it should be very exciting to start seeing some new power numbers later this year.

If you wanna toe up at a stoplight or a dragstrip, I'd say keep the camaro. Without proper tuning you have a much better chance of blowing the rotary engine. If you want a car that puts out decent horsepower and outhandles mostly everything on the road in stock form, then get the Rx-8.

But from the your story.... Keep the camaro.

No, the RX-8 is not a good drag racing car, as we have proven in this forum a number of times by owners who have taken theirs to the strip. It does indeed turn heads almost everywhere you go (especially with the mazda$peed kit) but it will not match the performance of your F-Body Camaro SS. The automatic has 197 Naturally Aspirated horsepower and the Six-Speed manual has 238 Naturally Aspirated horses (Turbo is on its way). The car does have a redline...one probably a LITTLE better than the SS, at 9,000 rpm. It gets deccent gas mileage from what i have experienced (18 mpg; city 22; highway). Good luck.....hope you get one.:)

Oh yeah...i said the redline is 9,000 rpm. When you get close to there it lets you know with a little "beep" noise, really cool.

That beep noise is the factory shift light! ;)

you can't compare the two imho.....the camaro is on old, outdated body style that screams redneck.....the rx8 has a much more modern, unique style that screams sporty sophistication.......

Be careful not to offend him. He might not be a redneck.

I'm a former Mustang owner (it's now my father's project car) and I test drove an 8 in Japan... I'll hopefully be testing one again while I'm in the States on vacation. The one test drive put a different kind of grin on my face than the American muscle kind. I'll give you another review of it after I've gotten a chane to drive it on the larger roads here...

I thought that rotary engines don't have theoretically a redline, that you can floor it and get the RPMs as high as you want, but its not good for your engine. (remember that one video of that guy flooring his RX-7 for like 10 minutes?)

Originally posted by ls1SuperSport

[..]
gets worst gas mileage then my 5.7 litre V8. Whats the deal here? Is this tradeoff worth it?
[..]
could use a nitrous kit to make up the lost HP that would bring it into the range of my Camaro, and the rotary would not be pr one to failure like a conventional engine.
[..]
RX-8 could ever toe up to an F-body stoplight



I owned a Firebird (only the V6) before, but have driven the V8 too.

- The RX-8 is *NEVER* going to beat a Trans AM / V8 Camaro at the stop light. I wouldn't go the nitrous way. Seems you'd be trying to turn the RX-8 into something it simply is not. I'm also not sure what to give on "not prone to failure like a conventional engine".. the RX-7 was a rotary too and look at the reliability of that car when people turbo'd it.

- That said, in the RX-8 I've driven circles around a V8 Camaro on a curvy mountain highway.

- The gas mileage sucks. There's no excuse or way to say it other. Rotary is not fuel efficient. I have a long commute (100 miles a day) and sometimes I drive an old junker which gets 48 mpg on the freeway. Some people here try to squeeze more mpg out of the RX-8; I've given up on that.

EPA got 24 mpg on the highway? With setting the cruise control to 55 mph I got 23.15 mpg but who wants to do that?
My junker (92 Festiva with 205000 miles) was rated by EPA as 41 or 44, I don't know, I get 45 to 48 mpg out of it. So nobody tell me that EPA numbers are hard to achieve in general.

I would almost advise you to keep the Camaro as your second car, also because it has more trunk space. You realize that you cannot fold the rear seat in the RX-8? I always loved that in the Firebird...

My girlfriend broke her knee a week ago and has a wheelchair now. Try transporting that in the RX-8! Doesn't fit in the trunk.
The folded wheelchair on the backseat? I didn't try, didn't want to scratch that shiny center console.

Luckily the Festiva has the folding backseat, so no problem to put in a wheelchair.

Summing up, I have to say that driving the RX-8 is a whole class better of an experience than driving an F-body. It won't give you that push when you take off but once you're going, it feels like a 2 seater, much more confidence inspiring than your Camaro.

Good luck w/ whatever you end up driving!

Originally posted by Mikelikes2drive
I thought that rotary engines don't have theoretically a redline, that you can floor it and get the RPMs as high as you want, but its not good for your engine. (remember that one video of that guy flooring his RX-7 for like 10 minutes?)

If you are thinking of the same video I am, the guy had the cap off the radiator while he reved the hell out of the engine. The coolent boiled out and it took a surprisingly long time for the engine to finally overheat and cease up.

I felt it in the pit of my stomach.

Traded in my '95 Camaro to get the RX-8. Sure, there are trade-off's, but I'm having a blast driving the 8.

BUY THE RX-8
Ah yes, the bane of General Motors' existence — and the reason, I'm convinced, for the company's continued market share slide. Seat time in a Z28 or Firebird Trans Am never fails to put a smile on my face, beckoning me to pick one up for myself. But as soon as I exit the cars' cockpit, the logical side of my brain takes over. I find myself thinking back to our experiences with the Oldsmobile Intrigue, Cadillac Seville and Hummer 2. Each of these vehicles offered a stunning drivetrain, acceptable — if not attractive — styling and reasonable value ... just like the F-bodies. And each of them proved an ordeal in terms of unscheduled and annoying dealer visits. At 20,000 miles on the odometer, they had all suffered mechanical malfunctions ranging from defective power steering to massive electrical gremlins to broken seat adjustments. By contrast, Mazda RX-8 has suffered fairly innocuous problems, and the Range Rover we have for almost a year has been nearly flawless in terms of mechanical problems. No matter how much fun I have behind the wheel of an F-body, I can't get over my fear of what the car will be like as the years, and miles, add up. I am sure and I hope that the American auto makers get it together before it's too late.

The Baller

Baller's right about reliablitly and GM, unfortunately.

My Firebird's rear differential pinion seal broke 3 times while I had it, twice while in warranty.

The cat converter broke at 81000 miles (warrantied up to 80000) and at 95000 the transmission started to act up. That was it, I traded it in for the RX-8 at 95500.

I've had a Mazda 626 before, it was running fine at 176000 miles on the odo when I traded it in. I expect similar quality from the RX-8.

Just look at Mazda's warranty (50k miles) and compare it to GM's warranty (36k miles).

-Peter

P.S.: it was a 2000 Firebird, just 3 years old

My wife drives a '99 Firebird (V6) now, and we're already looking for something to replace it. To say it "drives like a GM" would probably sum it up and equate to what many other former owners feel about the F-body. It's a nice car, but having driven my 8 for a couple of months makes me loathe getting behind the wheel of her car. Combine this with the unexpected repair bills that were fortunately covered by the extended warranty we were wise enough to buy for it, and you'd quickly see why we're planning on trading it (the repairs actually cost more than the warranty did). Yeah, it's not the straightline monster with an LT1 under the hood (like my dad's), but neither are nearly as refined in appearance or handling as the 8 is. We too are considering a Murano to swap for it...

Ultimately it depends on what you want from the car - handling and precision or a fire-breathing dragon.

The original post could have been mine from about 4 mos. ago. I traded in my 2001 z28 for the RX8. First off, I take issue with the reliabilty factor, I had 40k miles on my car and was pushing 400hp without the nitrous and the only problems I had were the normal squeaks and rattles of a GM. That being said, the build quality, fun-factor of driving, and image of the RX8 in comparison are what made me glad I did the trade. I definitely miss pulling up to stop lights and knowing that 99.9% of the time I'd walk away from whoever is next to me. That was the main reason I had the Camaro, I also took it to the track a lot. The thing that made it easy for me to give up is that my career changed so I can't go around street racing and getting sideways on city streets anymore. Plus I just kind of grew out of that stage. Now I just have a blast carving corners and rowing through the gears of the 8. As far as mileage is concerned, I found it to be about the same. The decision of whether you should keep it or not should be made on what you find fun about driving.

Well... I went and took out an 8 here in the US with my father (a long time Ford muscle car fan). What a ride! Even my father was impressed by the smoothness and yes the power. THe linear nature of the power makes it deceptive... I ran it a bit hard to 70mph, and my father was surprised to know that I hit 70+ already.

Is IS a very different car than the firebrid, but different strokes for different folks. I suggest the same... take it out for a spin and see how you like it... (light LIGHT clutch.)

Wow. Thanks for the reply guys. Sorry it took awhile to get back to you, but I appreciate the feedback. Thanks for the information about the ECU/Nitrous issues.

Again, Im still thinking about it. Im in a situation right now where a test drive is not possible, but when I get back to the states I think it is worth a look.

Keeping the Camaro as a second car wouldn't be an option, so more then likely it would be a trade in.

But Ill see how it goes, If you got any more stories, Id like to hear them.


By the way, Im not a redneck. But I have heard it before :D

I had a 1986 camaro Iroc with 305 tune port engine. Was in the shop more than I drove it. Always something going wrong with the damn thing. Never buy another GM. The Rx8 is a true sportscar and will out drive the camaro anyday of the week. Much higher quality, better looking. You feel one with the car when driving it. Gas milage is about the same as the camero. It's a no brainer. Get the Rx8 . You'll be happier Now and in the long run. For drag racing I use my 1800 VTX bike. It will kill any stock car from a light including the vette or camero. And it's a full dress v-twin cruiser. The rx8 has alot more class. well worth the money. Camaro's are for teenagers and people who can'nt affor vettes.

Wow factor : Not many cars below exotice pricing keep that past the first year of production. Not to be rude, but unless you want to buy knew every year or two, I'd remove this "factor" from you decision making process.

Power factor : The "8" just isn't going to have is like your F body. My guess based on your comments is that this is probably the most important thing for you (obviously my opinion). I'd say if my assesment is right, the "8" isn't a good fit for you.

Driving factor : The "8" handles like a dream. one of the most fun cars to drive I have ever owned. For me, this is the most important factor in my decision making process. You gotta figure where that falls for you.

Car production is a constant compromise between these factors agasint price. If we coudl have all these in a $30,000 (USD), everyone would by one ... which would then hose the WOW factor :). But more realistically, the price usuallyl jumps to the $150,000 (USD) to $500,000 range! But of course then there's the space issue ...

I had a 1986 camaro Iroc with 305 tune port engine. Was in the shop more than I drove it. Always something going wrong with the damn thing. Never buy another GM. The Rx8 is a true sportscar and will out drive the camaro anyday of the week. Much higher quality, better looking. You feel one with the car when driving it. Gas milage is about the same as the camero. It's a no brainer. Get the Rx8 . You'll be happier Now and in the long run. For drag racing I use my 1800 VTX bike. It will kill any stock car from a light including the vette or camero. And it's a full dress v-twin cruiser. The rx8 has alot more class. well worth the money. Camaro's are for teenagers and people who can'nt affor vettes.

I can't believe you just compared the quality of a 2001 model based off of your experiences with a 1986 model. What is that, like a 17 year gap or so? And are you saying that the gas mileage for an RX-8 is about the same as an 86 Camaro? I don't understand.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say based on the general attitude of your post you were never really a domestic guy to begin with. As for the GM F-Body reliability, I really think alot more of it is slander then anything else. Alot of the people who bash on F-Bodies for their "GM reliability" have never owned one. As for my car, Im pushing 40,000 miles on it and It has not given me any problems.

And I kinda take offense to your whole, "Camaros are for teenagers and people who can't afford Vette' comments." Im not even going to get into finances, but lets just say that the F-Bodies had alot friendlier community that was more
enthusiest orientented then the elitist mid-age crisis pricks that accounted for about 80% of the Corvette owners.

As for the bike issue, its fast, yes, but Im not too keen on the whole "Hit pole, die" deal. No thank you.

By the way, its spelled CAMARO, not CAMERO.

Supersport

Read some of the treads concerning camaro reliability. They have not improved much. Just a sporty looking car with big tires, engine and tranny. It's still a cheap trick. No status. See how it runs 60k from now. Hope you trade before then.

I spelled camaro bothways so I got it right once.

I am mid-age but no crisis yet. Just wiser. Don't see too many of us old farts driving camaro's. Woud'nt waste my time.

Never hit a pole yet and have logged over 200k on bikes. More chance of hurting yourself or someone else dragracing your 350 hp camaro.

Been married 31 years never been in jail so I think I qualify as domestic.

It's not an attitude, juut an opinion.

Hello back to you.

o to 60 in what? lets say between 5 and 7 seconds for both cars. I drive a lot longer than 7 seconds a day and for that portion of driving i will take the 8 again and again. I put some though into the 05 mustang but ...well like so many have said here drive the 8. in really does put the "8" in "gr8 drive"

Originally posted by Baller
BUY THE RX-8
No matter how much fun I have behind the wheel of an F-body, I can't get over my fear of what the car will be like as the years, and miles, add up. I am sure and I hope that the American auto makers get it together before it's too late.
The Baller

Hey, Baller, does this include your fun re the Camaro-plus pictures you posted on another thread? Or was that not "behind the wheel"? ;)

Originally posted by shebam
Hey, Baller, does this include your fun re the Camaro-plus pictures you posted on another thread? Or was that not "behind the wheel"? ;)

They took my nice pictures away
They said I was
gratuitous Gra`tu´i`tous
Adj. 1. gratuitous - without cause; "a gratuitous insult"
unmerited - not merited or deserved; "received an unmerited honorary degree"
2. gratuitous - costing nothing; "complimentary tickets"
costless, gratis, complimentary, free
unpaid - not paid; "unpaid wages"; "an unpaid bill"
3. gratuitous - unnecessary and unwarranted; "a strikers' tent camp...was burned with needless loss of life"
needless, uncalled-for
unnecessary, unneeded - not necessary

Take a piece of paper and take this test. Total the result and which ever gets the highest marks is what you will make your decision on.

Take the following catagories

Power, quality, interior design, handling, Fun to drive, torque, Drag racing ability, engine smoothness, looks, utility, gas mileage, image, cost, oil consumption, clutch engagement, transmission shifting,refinement,steering and sex in the back seat. Drive both cars and try the above catagories and rate the cars. if there is a catagory you dont care about, like Looks (I assume you dont care since you drive an F body) then remove it. Total it and you will get a clear winner.

For example I have driving my friends 2002 Z28. My ratings will be the Z28 first and the rx8 second. On a scale of 1 to 10


Power, 10 6.5
quality, 5.5 10
interior design, 4.6 9.8
handling, 5.7 10
Fun to drive, 4.5 10
torque, 10 2
Drag racing ability, 10 1
engine smoothness, 7 10
looks, 3 10
utility, 8 10
gas mileage, 8 6
image, 3 9
cost, 10 9
oil consumption, 8 6
clutch engagement, 4 10
transmission shifting 4 10
steering 5 10
refinement 3 10
sex in the back seat. 10 1


As you can see this test had a total of 190 and the rx8 got a 150.3 while the F body got a 123.3.

Originally posted by Roaddemon
Supersport

Read some of the treads concerning camaro reliability. They have not improved much. Just a sporty looking car with big tires, engine and tranny. It's still a cheap trick. No status. See how it runs 60k from now. Hope you trade before then.

I spelled camaro bothways so I got it right once.

I am mid-age but no crisis yet. Just wiser. Don't see too many of us old farts driving camaro's. Woud'nt waste my time.

Never hit a pole yet and have logged over 200k on bikes. More chance of hurting yourself or someone else dragracing your 350 hp camaro.

Been married 31 years never been in jail so I think I qualify as domestic.

It's not an attitude, juut an opinion.

Hello back to you.

I don't think anyone that doesn't or wouldn't own a Camaro should ever say anything to a Camaro owner about reliability issues. ls1supersport knows if his car is reliable or not. He doesn't have to read anything.

Half of the people on the LS1 forum probably look at the RX-8 as just another slow rice car that floods all day. All they have to do is read the comments on this forum. Remember that the much larger more powerful LS1 in the Camaro/Vette will kick the crap out of the RX-8 in the gas mileage and power department all day every day. It suddenly isn't as funny when the tides are turned on your car is it? It is just an opinion, yours. It doesn't make it fact or anyone elses opinion. did it ever occur to you that Chevy didn't design the Camaro the same as the RX-8? If they had, there wouldn't be a solid rear axle. Different cars, different goals. The Camaro is a car that resembles the muscle car age and there is still a much larger Camaro following than there is rotary following in this country.

Motorcycles in general are not more prone to accident but some of their riders are. I'm a Harley person myself and like to cruise around. I am absolutely against the crotch rocket crowd since they are a majority of the motorcycle accidents on the road. To me they are the ricers in terms of attitude of the motorcycle world. I'm not saying I don't like the bikes. They are technological wonders but most of their owners lack the ability to drive sincerely and with regards to the general public. Comparing a crotchrocket to a street car is like comparing a Cessna to the SR-71 or a Festiva to a top fuel dragster. It is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. Go race a Formula 1 car on them and see what happens. Another stupid comparison.

Originally posted by ls1SuperSport

As for the GM F-Body reliability, I really think alot more of it is slander then anything else. Alot of the people who bash on F-Bodies for their "GM reliability" have never owned one. As for my car, Im pushing 40,000 miles on it and It has not given me any problems.


Is1SuperSport,

I owned a 1987 Formula 350. When I bought it I knew it was not a reliable car due to research with Consumer Report which ranked it as one of the worst in repairs for all cars that year. In the 16 years and 95K miles I owned it, I had to replace the intake manifold gasket twice, the transmission mounts 3 times, the alternator 3 times, the air compressor and few other things once. Since I knew it was not great, I did not care as I did love the torque and engine sound. But saying it is not prone to repairs is just wrong. I am glad that you do not have problems, but it is NOT a reliable car.

Originally posted by rotarygod
I don't think anyone that doesn't or wouldn't own a Camaro should ever say anything to a Camaro owner about reliability issues. ls1supersport knows if his car is reliable or not. He doesn't have to read anything.

Half of the people on the LS1 forum probably look at the RX-8 as just another slow rice car that floods all day. All they have to do is read the comments on this forum. Remember that the much larger more powerful LS1 in the Camaro/Vette will kick the crap out of the RX-8 in the gas mileage and power department all day every day. It suddenly isn't as funny when the tides are turned on your car is it? It is just an opinion, yours. It doesn't make it fact or anyone elses opinion. did it ever occur to you that Chevy didn't design the Camaro the same as the RX-8? If they had, there wouldn't be a solid rear axle. Different cars, different goals. The Camaro is a car that resembles the muscle car age and there is still a much larger Camaro following than there is rotary following in this country.

Motorcycles in general are not more prone to accident but some of their riders are. I'm a Harley person myself and like to cruise around. I am absolutely against the crotch rocket crowd since they are a majority of the motorcycle accidents on the road. To me they are the ricers in terms of attitude of the motorcycle world. I'm not saying I don't like the bikes. They are technological wonders but most of their owners lack the ability to drive sincerely and with regards to the general public. Comparing a crotchrocket to a street car is like comparing a Cessna to the SR-71 or a Festiva to a top fuel dragster. It is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. Go race a Formula 1 car on them and see what happens. Another stupid comparison.

If you say so boss,
Read consumer reports, much worse than average. It's a dinosore car. Far from modern sportscars. My bike is not a crotch rocket. It weighs 850lbs and is a full blown cruiser, 100 hp and will kick most cars ass. Even so I usually will not take a challenge. Usually its the highpower vettes and firebirds that try me.
Tell me you did'nt say the LS1 is an economy car with admirable gas mileage (LOL)
Do you really think us rx8 owners are into dragracing those sort of cars. The 8 is not a stoplight pavement burner. Why would I even try?
After owning a 85 Transam 305 (BLOWN ENGINE AT 35K) and piece of junk in the shop all the time Iroc z28, I have no use for talk about the merits of the brand or model to which you refer.
GM can kiss my ass. I got burnt twice. Never again.