I commend you, Justin Kernen. My letter should hit magazines next month.

"Being an avid Mazda fan, I was glad to see the RX-8 make the 10Best list. However, the RX-8 available at dealerships is not the quite the same car that all the mags scooted to 14.5 sec quarter mile time observing 19 mpg. To satisfy U.S. regulations, Mazda reprogrammed the fuel maps to preserve cat life. As a result, no RX owner has been able to achieve 24mpg, and many are getting as low as 13 mpg.
Dynos show that only about 190 HP is hitting the pavement and most 8s are running low 15s. The amazing thing is that no one cares. The car is so fun to drive that owners are just filling up their tanks every couple of days and loving it. Well, not me. I want the 250 hp version that gets 18/24 like the sticker says. But if people keep buying it as is, and the media keep handing out awards, Mazda has no reason to give it to us."

C&D responds saying that Mazda swears that the revised cars equal the acceleration that they published and that they got 15mpg overall.

Too bad this guy didnt pound the flooding problem as well. My letter does that.

.. i got 23.5mpg on a trip

... I also ran neck and neck with a 2002 Mustang Gt


.... maybe some people should get their heads out of their arses...

Originally posted by rieskame
As a result, no RX owner has been able to achieve 24mpg

Says who? I've got 26 (US) mpg, and several others have beat 24 as well.

If the gas mileage and "flooding problem" bother you so much, you really would be better off selling your RX-8 and buying something more conventional and economical.

Regards,
Gordon

I read that letter to the editor in C&D over the weekend.

Nice to know where C&D stands ..... planted in the driver's seat.

Originally posted by rxeightr
I read that letter to the editor in C&D over the weekend.

Nice to know where C&D stands ..... planted in the driver's seat.

And blinded by faith in Mazda's claims...




P.S. Mustang GT autos (which many are) are only low 15 second cars.

P.S.S. Gord & Prober, face it the gas and flooding issue is a big deal for a lot of people and getting the kind of numbers you guys are posting up seems very rare (low teens and below seems more common). Though I do agree, it's not the kind of car you should be buying if you are really that worried about mileage.

I have no gripes with the performance -- I got the auto because I didn't want to beat the crap out of this car.

I did just experience my first flood though and I'm pissed! Brand new car -- 1K miles and it took me the better part of TWENTY MINUTES to get it started!!

Fact is that I haven't taken any precautions so far to prevent this from happening and I shouldn't have to! I've started the engine for three minutes and shut off. I've run it for four minutes and shut it off and never a problem. What makes this instance totally unacceptable is that the last time the car was shut-off was after a 20 mile ride. Making matters worse is that this flooded AFTER a long drive -- definitely at temperature when it was shut down! The car was at running temperature (by far) when I shut it off.

I got in the next day (today), turned the key -- it was actually running for about TWO seconds and quit. When I turned the key again it wouldn't start and I knew either this thing died, or it flooded (thanks to all I've read here).

So I pulled out the manual (instead of running into the computer), saw what they had to say about starting and started a very long PO'd campaign to get it running again.

After twenty minutes of BS it finally started to kick to life. Even after it was running I was throwing black smoke for better than two minutes.

This isn't a livable BUG -- this is a serious issue. With all of that black smoke flowing over my NEW car I was just waiting for a fire to start! Mark my words -- somebodies baby is going to go up in flames over this -- it's going to happen -- just wait and watch! If even just a few of these go up in flames it will be just enough to catch the governments attention and then there will be a total recall. Won't that be sweet...

I'm going to document EVERY flood with the factory and if they don't fix it, they'll be looking at a lemon law return.

I love this car -- this flooding issue is NOT ACCEPTABLE to me, and it shouldn't be acceptable to ANYONE that owns one.

Did the dealer tell you about the flooding feature when you bought the car? No, I didn't think so...

Tinkerer

i've gotten over 24 on several occasions, most notably on my big road trip through cali. i have seen several people poste 30 mpg on trips, elara being one i think.

the french guy (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22071) just got 27.7mpg

Originally posted by IkeWRX

P.S. Mustang GT autos (which many are) are only low 15 second cars.




it wasn't an auto...

ive never seen above 15mpg and the more i drive the car the lower the numbers.. i just dont let it bother me.. there is a reason i kept my civic.

as for Tinkerers point.. come to thing about the dealer did mention flooding to me. he specifically said "dont turn on the car and shut if off right away, leave it running for couple of minutes before you turn it off"

those were his words before he handed me the keys.. see i was paying attention

Originally posted by rieskame
"The car is so fun to drive that owners are just filling up their tanks every couple of days and loving it... But if people keep buying it as is, and the media keep handing out awards, Mazda has no reason to give it to us."


Nonsequitor.

The letter's author defeats his own argument. Additionally, the conclusion he draws regarding Mazda's motivations for future product plans borders on the fallacious. To wit: quite the opposite is true, relative to normal automotive product cycles. That is, Mazda will be much more motivated to produce improved designs if the product platform continues to sell well. If people weren't buying the car in numbers sufficient to close Mazda's business case, Mazda would more likely cancel the platform, vice sink more investment into the platform to improve it.

I test drove everything over the past year. Nothing else comes close to the driving experience (among other things) provided by the RX8. That's the real bottom line, and that's what sells cars.

Ciao!

Gord and prob
Do you really drive your cars for performance? I get 12mpg. My shift point is often 5-7000rpm. I bought the car for performance and not to have a "conventional" car.
BUT MAZDA is the one to make the claims. I trusted them. Had they said I would get 250hp and 12mpg I would have said OK and bought it anyway. BUT it does not make 250hp for the 12mpg. It probably does not even make 180hp for that fuel burn. My airplane gets better gas mileage, about 16mpg and 201mph and the engine really will get 200hp at sealevel.
The problem is not that we don't love our cars, we are mad that we were lied to from the start.

"BUT it does not make 250hp for the 12mpg. It probably does not even make 180hp for that fuel burn."

you're mixing flywheel numbers with wheel numbers.

Originally posted by crumpmd
Gord and prob
Do you really drive your cars for performance? I get 12mpg. My shift point is often 5-7000rpm. I bought the car for performance and not to have a "conventional" car.

Absolutely. The very worst I've got was about 15 mpg US, and that was for very hard charging for a few hours solid through mountain twisties in Northern California.

BUT MAZDA is the one to make the claims.

No, the US Government's EPA is the one to make the claims. They set the fuel economy test cycles, and they perform the tests on the vehicles submitted by the manufacturers. They determine the city/highway numbers, and they require the manufacturers to publish those numbers and nothing else. It's not Mazda's fault that the EPA test cycles are unrepresentative of actual consumption, but they have no choice about what numbers they are allowed/required to publish.

So, if you guys are so concerned about the mileage issue, I assume that you've all made appointments with your dealers to have the latest ECU reflash applied that leans out the mixture?

No?

So Mazda IS doing something about the fuel consumption, yet you haven't bothered to follow along with the information that's posted here and get this update applied? Too busy writing complaint letters to car magazines? ;)

Regards,
Gordon

"After he handed me the keys..."

Wow, what if he said make sure you carry a fire extinguisher just in case it goes up in flames? Would you still have driven away with the car?

Trust me, no one said anything about flooding prior to me buying this car. You know why? It would have to be some kind of joke, but hey -- where's the punch line?

Tinkerer

Originally posted by IkeWRX
And blinded by faith in Mazda's claims...




P.S. Mustang GT autos (which many are) are only low 15 second cars.

P.S.S. Gord & Prober, face it the gas and flooding issue is a big deal for a lot of people and getting the kind of numbers you guys are posting up seems very rare (low teens and below seems more common). Though I do agree, it's not the kind of car you should be buying if you are really that worried about mileage.

The funny thing is how pissed off people are about this. I currently own a 2003 Toyota Corolla (hoping to trade up to the RX-8 in a couple months) with a 130hp 1.8L 4-banger, and I NEVER get the specified gas mileage. I drive it a bit more aggressively, but even on road trips where it's 75 for 300 miles in cruise control mode, I've never achieved the lofty 38mpg. I've bested 34mpg, on a long road trip. When I drive around town, I get about 22-25mpg. The car is quoted as a 32 city/38 highway car by the EPA. When you drive ANY car hard, you get low gas mileage. Rotaries are just a little bit more sensitive. Live with it. Nobody is blinded, Mazda is just quoting what the EPA tested. It's not some conspiracy.

I do have a brand new 4 day old car... I have to agree with the gas mileage issue... I am def. not getting 19-24 mpg, Im getting something like 13.8, I scheduled an appointment with my dealer to get my ECU reflashed and to see how it goes... I just dont think its acceptable to be this low... I went by the sticker MPG and Im getting much less, but I am VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY happy with the car other than that, and wouldnt back out of buying it even knowing it would be this low...

Its simple, you want the published gas mileage numbers shift prior to 3000 RPM, the higher you shift the worse the gas mileage. Yes it SUCKS to shift at 3000 RPM, deal with it.

My saleseperson went over the flooding details with me on numerous occasions, well before I bought the car, and prior to my test drive. He knew what the issues were and made sure I understood them. When I picked up the car we went through the short drive procedure.

I got 15.7 MPG once, that is my all time low. The last two were 19.2 and 19.7 MPG in a mixture of city/highway driving, each tank over 200 miles. The best I have gotten was 21.7 MPG, that was mostly highway with some city.

A regression analysis has been posted here since October 25, 2003, and was based on raw date provided by RX8CLUB members. It showed that for drivers that
> "don't normally use high RPM range, only occasionally"
The computed MPG was:
> City: 17.04 MPG
> Highway: 22.26 MPG
Those are real results and are well within the EPA MPG range that is printed on my RX-8 sticker.
> City: 15-21
> Highway: 21-29
On the same sticker the EPA states the results will vary .... Elsewhere in this forum is a discussion of how the EPA actually computes MPG, and they seem to be comparable with the conditions used for the regression analysis. As stated above Mazda doesn't pick the MPG that is reported.

I've read that the 2004 Prius, touted to get 50-60 mpg is only getting about 40 in the real world. This is according to owners and long term test cars for magazines. I think this is way worse than losing a measly 4-6mpg in the 8.

Oh yeah.. the new "L" reflash for the 8 does help mileage too

I don't think I'm annoyed at the MPG at all -- I really just wish I got better range and that could have been solved with a bigger tank. I seem to be filling up about every 240 miles or so at this point...

Tinkerer

I honestly think one factor, in addition to the smallish tank, is that big, linear fuel gauge, that starts to sink in the first 10 miles. Most cars have small gauges that stay "above" full for 30 - 50 miles and stay very optimistic until somewhere into the third quarter, where they plummet, telling you it's time to refill. I am NOT claiming that the mileage issue does not exist; I get 14- 15 on my commute. But I did on my BMW too and I NEVER drove it with an eye on the fuel gauge as I'm too inclined to do now (even when I decide to ignore it in my driving).

Originally posted by jniamehr
I do have a brand new 4 day old car...

Fer cryin out loud! Would you mind at least breaking in your engine before you start complaining about the gas mileage! :mad:

For the record, on almost ANY new vehicle, fuel consumption drops after the break-in period - horsepower also improves after the break-in period as well. There have been many, many reports here of people who's gas mileage numbers improved after they had 2000 or 3000 miles on their RX-8s!

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Tinkerer
I don't think I'm annoyed at the MPG at all -- I really just wish I got better range and that could have been solved with a bigger tank. I seem to be filling up about every 240 miles or so at this point...

Tinkerer

I can understand your anger. From your original post your car started and stalled after 2 seconds. That is why it flooded . . . yes the last time your drove it (the night before) it was warmed right up. That does not help you the next morning. As soon the 8 lights up I give her a quick rev. Anyways, my details . . . had the car since last August, never flooded mileage is about 23 on the highway and b/w 14-17 in the city. Keeping the revs below 3000, avoiding idling and getting up to 5th as quick as possible has helped me. Dealer told me about the flooding. Absolutely love the car.

Originally posted by iamcanadian
I can understand your anger. From your original post your car started and stalled after 2 seconds. That is why it flooded . . . love the car.

No -- at least in my experience, reverses cause and effect. When mine flooded, because I had moved it for about 30 seconds in very cold weather and returned to it 2 days later, it ALSO ran for about 2 seconds then died and wouldn't come close to catching again. The flooding was caused by the move 2 days before, not the dying after 2 seconds. Can't explain the why or wherefore, but that was my experience too (raising the very scientific sample to 2).

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Absolutely. The very worst I've got was about 15 mpg US, and that was for very hard charging for a few hours solid through mountain twisties in Northern California.

[B]


So, if you guys are so concerned about the mileage issue, I assume that you've all made appointments with your dealers to have the latest ECU reflash applied that leans out the mixture?

No?

So Mazda IS doing something about the fuel consumption, yet you haven't bothered to follow along with the information that's posted here and get this update applied? Too busy writing complaint letters to car magazines? ;)

Regards,
Gordon

Gordon,
I have had the reflash, not for mileage but for a recurrent CEL. After 5 tankfuls with the reflash, I have seen no difference in my mileage. However, I have typically had very constant, and adequate, MPG (18-20) regardless of driving style.

I haven't seen any evidence that this is the solution to poor MPG. I do recall at least one post claiming better mileage. I'm happy for him, but let's face it - we aren't seeing a bunch of reflash owners coming back from the dealership with smiles on their faces. I love this car, but I can also appreciate people's concerns over poor mileage and flooding. They are real issues, at least for some folks.

Regards,
Kevin

For those defending Mazda on the mileage issue - just remember, the EPA testing regimen is not a big secret. The auto manufacturers (ALL OF THEM) design the fuel maps with getting the best possible EPA test results as a goal. If you drive the car the way the EPA tests it, you will likely achieve similar results as the EPA.

Having said that, I have tried to drive the 8 by shifting under 3k and it is absurd. I didn't buy a rotary powered sports car to drive it like a diesel truck. I might pull a couple of sub 3k shifts during warm up but that's it. Let's be real. In the time it takes to lift your foot off the clutch and prepare to upshift again the engine is already between 4-5k. It likes to rev and I like to rev it.

I can exceed 20mpg on the highway if I keep it below 73mph in 6th. Since this is not a realistic interstate cruise speed, it would be nice to have a dashboard selectable "economy" mode.

I read somewhere that the owners of the Toyota and Honda hybrids are starting a class action lawsuit because those cars are even furhter from the EPA numbers in real world conditions and usage.

I'll be going in for an oil change and a couple of warranty issue in the next week or two. I'll see if they 'll update the ECU and see if that makes any difference. If not, oh well.

I exceeded 21 mpg with no reflash on an 8 manufactured in Sept '03, driving it at 75 - 78 mph using cruise control. I cannot complain about highway mileage even if it isn't in the middle 20s. However, even if I keep the RPMs under 3500 and drive it like a grandma, I cannot achieve above 15 mpg, I still stay around 14.5 or below. I could only drive it that way (granny) for 100 miles before I said I have got to fill it up to check the mileage and go fast again. It was as all who have tried it, BOORING!!

I will get the reflash when I get the reflash. I no longer complain about mileage issues.

just got my car back from the dealer today. Took it in for the latest reflash. Had a good chat with the service tech to. He mentioned that there could be more updates coming from mazda, and that the mileage will improve with time? Anyway, I did notice some more grunt and less hesitation at WOT.....but it could be just me. But it did feel a little different, especially around the 4k-7k mark. The mileage issue we did talk about, and lets face it, the rotary is not a car for good mileage, and climate change plays a huge part in how much gas this thing will use. He mentioned that warmer weather will improve the mpg, but even at just below freezing temp, the car will get much poorer mpg. The rotary is not a fan of cold weather........and to me, the performance is worth it !......to the guy that had the run in with a Mustang GT.....on the way home, some guy in a BMW 330ci was trying to tail gate me?? Think he was trying to see what I was going to do? Well, next light I pulled away and floored it up to about 90kph, he pulled in the other labe to try and pas, but was still about 1 or 2 car lengths behind. I backed off as I would like to keep my license. But in the real world, the 8 has enough power to keep you smiling......and with CZ's mod, it will be even more fun!:D

Originally posted by shebam
No -- at least in my experience, reverses cause and effect. When mine flooded, because I had moved it for about 30 seconds in very cold weather and returned to it 2 days later, it ALSO ran for about 2 seconds then died and wouldn't come close to catching again. The flooding was caused by the move 2 days before, not the dying after 2 seconds. Can't explain the why or wherefore, but that was my experience too (raising the very scientific sample to 2).

No doubt that in your situation the car was flooded from the last move . . . it never warmed up. From what we have been told, and experienced on this board, if the car has warmed up you should not have a flooding problem. If anyone is having that problem they have a right to be irrate and have a problem beyond shutting the rotary down cold. I know it has been mentioned in a few posts before but that is not the norm for flooding.

I've measured about 19 mpg over the last three tanks, and that includes some pretty spirited driving. I've owned seven cars over the last fifteen years, and I've always managed to meet the EPA numbers -- frankly, I'm surprised I'm able to do so in my RX-8, given that I seem to shift at about twice the rpm as in any piston engine car.

As for people who buy their cars "by the numbers" instead of by how the vehicles feel from behind the wheel, to each his own. My RX-8 is great fun to drive regardless of whether it takes 14.5 seconds or 15.2 seconds or 16 seconds to cover a quarter mile.

Originally posted by TwoZooms

As for people who buy their cars "by the numbers" instead of by how the vehicles feel from behind the wheel, to each his own. My RX-8 is great fun to drive regardless of whether it takes 14.5 seconds or 15.2 seconds or 16 seconds to cover a quarter mile.

A-freaking-men.

:)

I think someone should survey everyone that bought a new car in 2003 or anytime recently, and see if they get the same numbers as the EPA estimates. I bet the answer would be a resounding "HELL NO." Visit any car forum, read any magazine road test or long-term test and you'll see cars these days rarely deliver what the EPA says they might.

For comparison's sake, look at Edmunds long term Z and G coupe. The best mpg for the Z has been 22.9, the worst 17.8. For the G, the best was 16.3, and the worst was 13.7. Nowhere near what the sticker claims.

For comparison's sake, look at Edmunds long term Z and G coupe. The best mpg for the Z has been 22.9, the worst 17.8. For the G, the best was 16.3, and the worst was 13.7. Nowhere near what the sticker claims.

And planted right smack within those numbers we find our own RX-8.

Before my purchase, I budgeted based upon 20 mpg. After 35 tankfuls, I'm getting 21.16 mpg. So nothing but praises from this satisfied owner. I did not pick 24mpg to budget from, knowing I do not drive to acheive EPA's highest number. 85% of my driving is highway. Those of you with mostly city driving, did you expect to get the highest city number that EPA gave?

I am closing in on 8 months of ownership. Like many of you, I studied up on the RX-8, and other car choices like the G35 & 350Z mentioned above. Even though I pre-ordered the RX-8 in 1/03, I was not blinded to look into other choices.

When I got my RX-8, I was worried it would dissappoint, kind of like a movie you look forward to seeing, because of all the hype, and it ends up being a let down because the build-up was bigger than it deserved. Yet with my ride, the reverse was true. It pleasantly surprised me with the quality of ride, the linear acceleration, the responsive steering, and ultimately, the total driving experience.

May the latest 'L' reflash help those who do mostly city driving. However, I do believe driving style plays the biggest part of the MPG equation.

drive

I used to think that the MPG would be an issue, but seeing how my m6 averages 22-23 mpg it really isnt that big of a problem.

Oh how can I stress this, RTFM!!
If you want the EPA gas mileage, shift at recommended points where? In the manual. Want to know about flooding the car and getting it unflooded, hmm, read the manual. People want to get bitchy and complain about how the salesman didn't go over this or that, or the sticker said X mpg, yet don't know how these figures are derived, it's not Mazda that puts out these numbers, it's the EPA, and they shift at what it says in the manual. While I agree this is not a fun way to drive the car, I am not bitching about MPG. I drive hard and I've never gotten below 15, when I did I was driving around about 40-50 in 2nd gear. BTW my salesman did go over the cold shutdown with me, it's not a new issue, it was back in August, and I'm sure it was known or they wouldn't have put it in the manual. The only thing I expected from sales was to fill out the paperwork.

I have two. My wife and I compare numbers on mileage regularly. I get from 19.5 to 21.5 depending on the amount of fun I am having. My wife gets 18 to 20.5 and I have watched her driving style to understand the differences.

I shift at 3750-4000 unless I am gettin on it. I do skip-shifts on a regular basis if I am bogged down in traffic and there is no bene to running through the gears. My wife shifts around 4500-5000. She is not that aggressive, she just waits longer to shift. Lastly, she does not use 6th as much as I do.

Pondering whether I should get the L reflash or leave well enough alone....

Originally posted by TwoZooms
As for people who buy their cars "by the numbers" instead of by how the vehicles feel from behind the wheel, to each his own. My RX-8 is great fun to drive regardless of whether it takes 14.5 seconds or 15.2 seconds or 16 seconds to cover a quarter mile.

You get an "A-FREAKING-MEN" from me, as well :D

As I said in my original post, the driving experience is what sells cars, and that's why I bought the car. There's nothing else like it -- a "Renaissance Man's Car", IMO. "Renaissance Woman's Car" too :D

The RX8 felt so much more optimal, especially compared to all the other cars I tested (Z, G, EvoVIII, STI, 3-Series, et.al.).

Astor,

The owner's manual is crap. Flooded -- followed emergency start procedure and it still took twenty embarrassing minutes to get it fired up again. I've never had a fuel injected car flood. Carburetor floods were always a piece of cake -- pedal down, don't let up, crank.

I'm not even sure what the point is of putting the pedal down on a flooded fuel injected car (never had to ponder this before). It's either telling a sensor that I want more gas (no), or maybe that tells a sensor that the engine IS flooded and it cuts off fuel?

It would be nice to know -- someone suggested pulling the fuse to the pump and in hind site, that probably would have re-started the engine a lot sooner.

With two plugs per chamber flooding should be nearly impossible. They NEED to fix this...

Tinkerer

The problem with letters like the one in C&D is that they air dirty laundry in public. Often the result is that the manufacturer pulls back and out of the segment, re: no more RX-8, maybe no RX-7 replacement and so on.

Sometimes cars like the RX-8 represent an imperfect first step that with some encouragement leads to improvements and even better cars.

I love my RX-8 despite a little less hp than I expected. My last car was an M Roadster. Plenty of power and acceleration, but overall, a very poor comparison to the RX-8 in quality, handling, content and value.

Last, I work for the world's leading sports car company and regularly drive some pretty exotic machinery -- bottom line is I can't wait to get back in my RX-8, it always brings a smile to my face.

Originally posted by rxeightr
And planted right smack within those numbers we find our own RX-8.

Before my purchase, I budgeted based upon 20 mpg. After 35 tankfuls, I'm getting 21.16 mpg. So nothing but praises from this satisfied owner. I did not pick 24mpg to budget from, knowing I do not drive to acheive EPA's highest number. 85% of my driving is highway. Those of you with mostly city driving, did you expect to get the highest city number that EPA gave?

drive

Well said. After 6000 miles on my Rx-8, I'm averaging around 19.5 MPG, and the trend has been improving over the last thousand miles or so. Once the cold weather ends and I can stop using crappy winterized gas, I expect to break 20 MPG with ease.

Do I wish I was getting better mileage? Sure I do, but I also don't want to give up shifting above 3000 RPM or cruising faster than 63 MPH. Besides, the Rx-8's competition isn't anything to write home about when it comes to mileage. My last car (Audi TT) only got around 23.5 MPG and was slower and far less enjoyable to drive. Even that expense differential is erased when you consider I can use 87 octane in the Rx-8.

I have to echo what all the RX8 "lovers" are saying. I've never owned a car (including some highly regarded German models) that is as fun-to-drive, well put together, with high quality materials, that is as stylish and head turning as the RX8.

Someone mentioned the MPG on the Prius....quite a firestorm with that number. EPA says 50-61 MPG. Owners say it's more like 38 MPG in city driving (where it's supposed to get its best economy). That's a 30% differential. I get 38 MPG (highway) in my '99 Civic and it's faster than any Prius.

Point is, I've never had any car that matches the MPG numbers on the sticker.

Oh yeah, I get 19 MPG in mixed driving with my RX8...24 MPG on highway driving.

Mine has never flooded. I've driven in all types of weather, hot and cold. I've pulled it our of the garage to wash it, and shut it down several times.

The minority that have flooded, Mazda has offered to put in "hot" plugs and that seems to have rectified their issue.

I find it particularly telling that Edmunds G35C gets the same mileage as the RX-8 does, despite different EPA estimates. At any rate guys, maybe you should look at the fuel consumption this way:

I have a 12A rotary engine in my RX-7. It's rated by the EPA for 17MPG city and 26 MPG highway. I typically get 15MPG in the city and usually get 26 MPG or better on the highway. The highway mileage is due to the low final gearing on my car, 3.903 compared to a 4.11 in the RX-8 IIRC. Anyhow, I think that you see my point, my 12A makes 100 HP on a good day, maybe 110 with my header. The RX-8 makes at LEAST 220 HP with the same fuel consumption, more with Canzoomer's ECU mods.

Compared to rotary engines of old, the Renesis does TWICE as much work with the same fuel consumption. Sounds like a good improvement to me.

Originally posted by SA22C
I find it particularly telling that Edmunds G35C gets the same mileage as the RX-8 does, despite different EPA estimates. At any rate guys, maybe you should look at the fuel consumption this way:

I have a 12A rotary engine in my RX-7. It's rated by the EPA for 17MPG city and 26 MPG highway. I typically get 15MPG in the city and usually get 26 MPG or better on the highway. The highway mileage is due to the low final gearing on my car, 3.903 compared to a 4.11 in the RX-8 IIRC. Anyhow, I think that you see my point, my 12A makes 100 HP on a good day, maybe 110 with my header. The RX-8 makes at LEAST 220 HP with the same fuel consumption, more with Canzoomer's ECU mods.

Compared to rotary engines of old, the Renesis does TWICE as much work with the same fuel consumption. Sounds like a good improvement to me.

haha.....I remeber if I granny drove my 12A RX7, I'd get 30mpg...the minute I wound it out for a while, man that gas guage just dropped....oh BTW the RX8 final drive is 4.444.......

Originally posted by Tinkerer
Astor,

The owner's manual is crap. Flooded -- followed emergency start procedure and it still took twenty embarrassing minutes to get it fired up again. I've never had a fuel injected car flood. Carburetor floods were always a piece of cake -- pedal down, don't let up, crank.

I'm not even sure what the point is of putting the pedal down on a flooded fuel injected car (never had to ponder this before). It's either telling a sensor that I want more gas (no), or maybe that tells a sensor that the engine IS flooded and it cuts off fuel?

It would be nice to know -- someone suggested pulling the fuse to the pump and in hind site, that probably would have re-started the engine a lot sooner.

With two plugs per chamber flooding should be nearly impossible. They NEED to fix this...

Tinkerer


Hey Tink !!!



Chill out. This IS acceptable behavior and Mazda is not going to bend over backwards to fix NORMAL SHIT !!! Some of us long-time enthusiasts have been dealing with the nuances of rotaries for a long g-damned time. Quit whining and enjoy the car. Anyone who expected this engine to behave any differently than 12A's or 13B's in general (be it flooding or mileage) is unrealistic. This is not just any fuel-injected car. Throw all pre-conceived notions of engines out of your head. I'm [not] sorry, but your posts just frustrate the hell out of me. Nothing personal.

(flame suit on)

P.S. - go buy a 3rd gen. 7 and THEN come back and tell me you still have "issues" with the 8.

Took a four week road trip from east Texas through Calif and up to Portland, OR in February. Included all sorts of driving - flat desert, mountains, freeway, city, etc. I checked the mileage for several tanks of gas: it ranged from 18._ to 24._. Thats within the advertised range, so I don't have any complaints. I did get the car up to 120 in west Texas...it tracked so smooth and solid, it felt like 80. Was able to pass with no problem anytime I wanted. We had some 12 hour days and we never got road-fatigue. Great car!

Hey XU...

Apparently you live in a world of crap and expect more crap. I don't and don't expect any of it to begin with.

You think it's reasonable for a brand new 8 to flood and it takes twenty minutes to restart it is acceptable? I don't care what the history of this car or the engine is. It's not acceptable -- period.

If this thing was such a dog in the first place what did they bring it back for? I'm shocked that Ford let them bring this back if this is a known, unsolveable issue. What the hell am I even saying -- who the hell thinks an easily flooded engine in today's marketplace is acceptable? Are you off your rocker?! I can't even believe there's a procedure in the manual covering this -- there shouldn't be an issue -- no one should be able to put a production line together to sell something with this trait.

Now, you being back in your little hole of crap (where you seem to be pretty comfortable) I will say that this hasn't flooded since -- but damn I had no clue this was an issue or a trait of this engine. Seems more to me to be a bad episode of the twilight zone that this should be EXPECTED -- ACCEPTABLE -- NO -- BIG -- DEAL.

Hey, when you get your life -- drop me another line...

:)

Tinkerer

HAHA..........I love this place.....


Unacceptable!! Unacceptable!! WHOOOO HAHAHAH


Really, stop whining. Sell the damm car if it bothers you so much. If you hadn't bitched about the flood thing, you'd probably whine about gas mileage, or overrated horsepower, or some other bulls***. It's no biggie....



Chicken littles.....

The sky is not falling.

Oh and my direct line to all the people who have been around this forum, read all the stuff, went out bought an RX8, then flooded it, and whined about it. You are stupid. Yep. Sorry....somebody has to say it. So quit the horses***.



How was that?

Hey guys, if you want to insult folks please become a lawyer like me and get paid to do it. :)

Originally posted by Tinkerer
Hey XU...

Apparently you live in a world of crap and expect more crap. I don't and don't expect any of it to begin with.

You think it's reasonable for a brand new 8 to flood and it takes twenty minutes to restart it is acceptable? I don't care what the history of this car or the engine is. It's not acceptable -- period.

If this thing was such a dog in the first place what did they bring it back for? I'm shocked that Ford let them bring this back if this is a known, unsolveable issue. What the hell am I even saying -- who the hell thinks an easily flooded engine in today's marketplace is acceptable? Are you off your rocker?! I can't even believe there's a procedure in the manual covering this -- there shouldn't be an issue -- no one should be able to put a production line together to sell something with this trait.

Now, you being back in your little hole of crap (where you seem to be pretty comfortable) I will say that this hasn't flooded since -- but damn I had no clue this was an issue or a trait of this engine. Seems more to me to be a bad episode of the twilight zone that this should be EXPECTED -- ACCEPTABLE -- NO -- BIG -- DEAL.

Hey, when you get your life -- drop me another line...

:)

Tinkerer

Hey TinkerBELL !!!

Sorry it took me SO LONG to respond. I was so deep in crap that I couldn't hear you bitching and whining. Or maybe that's just a defense mechanism from reading too many assinine posts on these forums.

Have you done your homework?!?! Have you ever stopped to read why this happens? Upon startup there is an abnormally large amount of fuel dumped into the combustion chamber of a rotary (as compared to piston poppers). This happens to be one of the main culprits - hence the need to let the car run and not immediately shut it off - give it a chance to burn up the extra fuel. Now, later in the life of the engine this can be exacerbated by not maintaining the motor. Rotaries are also especially hard on spark plugs due to added duty cycles and heat. Some mechanics recommend replacing 13B plugs as often as every 15,000 miles. Now if you let them go too long...... then they lose their ability to ignite that extra bit of fuel. It has yet to be seen how this will/will not change with the RENESIS. If anyone would like to add to this or clarify please do.

Read and you'll see that I'm not the only one who feels this way. Also read and you'll notice that there are a couple very simple habits to intergrate into your car-driving life that will eliminate the problems of flooding. If you pay attention you will see that it is only a problem for people who refuse to follow the laws of rotary;)

I have owned 5 RX-7's. The first - a 1989 GXL - was exceptionally prone to flooding. WHY ?!?!?! Not because it was a piece of shit, but because I had no idea how to proplerly maintain it. Now that I have learned the error of my ways (11 years ago) I have yet to flood another one since. I have not flooded my 8 at all. The people who pay attention don't flood their 8's. The only person who has flooded my 8 was my dad after the car sat for two months (jan-feb). If it takes you twenty F-ING minutes to restart the car....... then just don't bother. Sell it to someone who gives a shit and go buy a Z. Or, better yet, a Cavalier...... I hear they're bitchin' man.

Why not focus on all the awesome shit on this car instead of the one or two negative traits. I guess you can't please everyone. Well, I'm back to my Wide World O' Crap - with cars that don't flood.

Regards,
Ryan

Man, Ryan....your story sounds exactly like mine...hahah Except, me and nobody else has flooded the car. I don't let anybody touch my car. I'm not snobby and well off enough to eat at those places where valet parking is available either..hahah


There is waaaayyyy too many people whining about small things.

Originally posted by shebam
Hey guys, if you want to insult folks please become a lawyer like me and get paid to do it. :)

Outstanding legal advice. My compliments :D

Originally posted by NAVILESRX8
Man, Ryan....your story sounds exactly like mine...hahah Except, me and nobody else has flooded the car. I don't let anybody touch my car. I'm not snobby and well off enough to eat at those places where valet parking is available either..hahah


There is waaaayyyy too many people whining about small things.


Can I get an AMEN up in here ???

Yeah, I parked it in dad's monstrous garage for the rough months of the winter after spinning out in the snow. I can't afford valets either. And, after having a Mazda dealership wreck my first 94 RX-7 (yeah, the bastich was joyriding) I rarely let anyone touch the cars.

AMEN!!!!!!

Seriously, though. There have been numerous threads relative to flooding and proper operation of the vehicle. I recommend we NOT turn this into another "flooding issues thread."

I'll reiterate what I posted earlier in this thread: "a great product" sells cars. Great product in this case is the driving dynamic and overall "optimized and unconventional design" of the vehicle.

Flooding is an avoidable operational issue.

Mileage appears to be an issue related to driving style (just my observation), although I'll add that I certainly don't baby the car, and I've averaged ~18.5mpg in mixed, mostly city driving.

Ciao!
Darren

Originally posted by NAVILESRX8
AMEN!!!!!!

Thanks for the props my brotha !!!!:cool:

-Ryan

Originally posted by SpacerX
Seriously, though. There have been numerous threads relative to flooding and proper operation of the vehicle. I recommend we NOT turn this into another "flooding issues thread."

I'll reiterate what I posted earlier in this thread: "a great product" sells cars. Great product in this case is the driving dynamic and overall "optimized and unconventional design" of the vehicle.

Flooding is an avoidable operational issue.

Mileage appears to be an issue related to driving style (just my observation), although I'll add that I certainly don't baby the car, and I've averaged ~18.5mpg in mixed, mostly city driving.

Ciao!
Darren

I agree Darren. My intention was not to turn this into another redundant debate. Normally I just read on this forum and don't add much. However, when I start reading BS - I just get to the point where I have to pipe up. I have a serious problem with posts that are designed to do nothing more than bitch and moan without adding anything constructive or educational. In fact - I say we just close this damned thread.

I wind mine out the minute it reaches normal operating temp....man, I drive mine like I stole it almost all the time(I gotta drive sanely with the wife and kids in the car, hahah) and I'm getting 18mpg. On my last highway trip I got 22mpg, cruising at 75mph. My old Suzuki Grand Vitara was barely getting 17mpg and it was nowhere near as fun to drive. I know it'll never end...but I don't repsect the people with all the nonsense whining. It also bugs me that they seem to be the majority....

So to close out all the negative vibes ...

Recommend all that are unhappy with their 8s, take advantage of the For Sale section on this site or post a for sale item on E-Bay.

Originally posted by NAVILESRX8
I wind mine out the minute it reaches normal operating temp....man, I drive mine like I stole it almost all the time(I gotta drive sanely with the wife and kids in the car, hahah) and I'm getting 18mpg. On my last highway trip I got 22mpg, cruising at 75mph. My old Suzuki Grand Vitara was barely getting 17mpg and it was nowhere near as fun to drive. I know it'll never end...but I don't repsect the people with all the nonsense whining. It also bugs me that they seem to be the majority....

I hear that. I drive ALOT for work and the cars makes it totally enjoyable. I think the reason for all the negativity is that MOST owners are perfectly happy. The MAJORITY is out enjoying their cars and their lives instead of moaning on this website. The MINORITY just happens to be the MAJORITY on the website. Unfortunately that's the way it has alwasy been - even on the 7 site.

please be nice, guys- no more insults.

Originally posted by Elara
please be nice, guys- no more insults.

I thought I WAS being nice !!:D

and we're done........ please close this thread !!