Australian members if you are interested in the mazda internatianall re-flash go and read the 7 odd pages at this address .

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21530

cheers
michael

So the new flash may not be so secretive?? I thought you posted it was only known about in the higher levels of management?

BTW - Thanks for posting the link and bringing it to all our attention. It is a good read, and as a reward for efforts you win todays valuable post award :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee

Mazda Australia either knows nothing about this upgrade or they refuse to acknowledge its existence .

My dealer certainly does not no anything of this matter , he was not even aware that the correct Mazda oil has arrived in Australia


cheers
michael

Hymee

Thanks for the award of winning the post of the day , but are you suggesting that all my other 1501 post have not been in formative .

Shucks you have hurt my feelings .

cheers

michael

I'm due for my first service soon and will ask the service manager about it.

Has anyone else had a dealer acknowledge the upgrade?

Deano.

Latest information on reflash of ecu from Maurice's Site:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=266631#post266631

Cheers

Michael

There's also North American TSBs about reflashes:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-024-03.html

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-010-04.html

I asked my dealer about the transmission heat shield recall and the airbag recalls at my service last week. The Service Manager checked "the system" and said there was nothing for Australia :confused:

Timbo

The 1st bulletin shows the PCM for the manual car as :N3H6 -18 -881K .

The second bulletin shows the PCM for the manual as :N3H6-1-881L.

The PCM ending with the letter...... K ..... is the current one we have in the AUSTRALIAN CARS , the upgraded re-flashed PCM ends with the letter ....L ....Supposedly not available here in Australia .

All members can use this bulletin to show the aussie service managers that YES there is a upgraded RE-FLASH , which improves the running of the RX8 as well as improving your fuel bills .

The members who commited and purchased the rx8 by way of pre-ordering should not be penalised and not be given the latest PCM upgrade , these upgrades most likely will be available to cars delivered later in 2004 .

Mazda should come clean with this type of information and not keep its most loyal pre-order customers in the dark and continually try and feed us bullshit .

So if you want better performance reliability and better fuel consumption speak up and be heard .

CHEERS
MICHAEL

Originally posted by Lock & Load

So if you want better performance reliability and better fuel consumption speak up and be heard .

CHEERS
MICHAEL

How L&L?

Do you want us to protest outside the Mazda office and do suboptimal burnouts to show our disappointments?

Originally posted by takahashi
How L&L?

Do you want us to protest outside the Mazda office and do suboptimal burnouts to show our disappointments?


No taka thats a bit extreme to begin with , but not out of the question if nedded , however showing the bulletins to Mazda HEAD Malcolm Gough , and letting them know that we are not being kept properly informed of upgrades ON our cars is a start .

New zealand had the prescribed japanese mazda oil 3 months before we JUST GOT IT why???

Mazda Australia in my opinion has done a poor job of keeping its most loyal pre-order customers informed , it should not be left to forum members to find out vital information for their cars on the forum .

SHAME MAZDA SHAME .

MICHAEL

Originally posted by Lock & Load
Timbo

The PCM ending with the letter...... K ..... is the current one we have in the AUSTRALIAN CARS , the upgraded re-flashed PCM ends with the letter ....L ....Supposedly not available here in Australia

Michael,

Do you have this from MA?

The thing is, when I have questioned my Service Manager (with the Certified 'Master Technician' guy in tow) on this before, using the 2 recall TSBs they say that Australian and US cars have some major differences in spec, due to both Australian Design Rules, climate and other conditions (no doubt including the lower liabilities for recalls etc). That's why, for example, we can't get a sunroof here, the spare tyre is mandatory, but no second oil cooler … and, as you discovered, our fuel mapping is different.

Some of this may be true (eg, the ADR elements); some of it lies, and other parts complete ignorant bullsh!t. But, at this stage, we don't have the evidence that says if/when/how we are entitled to a PCM flash upgrade. Even in the US, they are only being offered to those who complain about MIL events, poor fuel economy or misfires.

I will certainly complain about fuel economy to see the outcome. But when I had my 20k service, I raised the cruise control surge issue, and the Service Manager showed me the readout from the WDS showing no errors.

Also, this is all getting into the realm of software upgrades, with which I have some experience. There are differences between new releases, upgrades and bug fixes, especially bug fixes that relate to specific configurations, and I am not sure which of these the US flashes relate to.

Oh god, don't tell me I've just bought another computer that needs upgrading every 6 months :eek:

Mazda Australia in my opinion has done a poor job of keeping its most loyal pre-order customers informed , it should not be left to forum members to find out vital information for their cars on the forum .

SHAME MAZDA SHAME .

MICHAEL

Seems you guys are just starting to learn the truth about Mazda Australia.

In Japan & America. They treat the customer with respect & know that without them, they wouldn't have a job. In Australia, its a cross between utter contempt & complacency.

Mazda Australia are easily the worst of the Japanese companies to deal with here. The poor dealers are like the meat in the sandwhich so I feel for them at times.

As I have said many times before. (Got this from another person that could see the real picture) Great product, rotten company

BTW, some one who tries to fight against the Mazda-Australia apathy is "Darrin Ray" from Gosford Mazda. He knows the few "on-the-inside" that are worth dealing with.

Call him & he will go well past what you expect to ensure you guys are treated right. He is a rotorhead & drives a JC Cosmo so you know he is on your side. Not only that, he is a great guy..!!

Darrin Ray - Spare parts Dept.
Gosford Mazda - 02 4337-8099

My car is late Jan 04 build, I wonder what version software/firmware is in it??

Gomez

Originally posted by Gomez
My car is late Jan 04 build, I wonder what version software/firmware is in it??

Gomez do the NV RAM clearing procedure. Its harmless and if your oil meter sweeps up and down you have the "L" configuration.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-0072.gif

DMRH


You are spot on the product is good but the Australian mazda arm sucks .

Because only 800 or so RX8 are sold annually locally , that is not a reason to treat customers with contempt .

America being a larger market gets much better treatment .

Maybe we should complain to mazda japan about the Australian arm .

Ihave 3 sons who will be purchasing motorcars at some stage and they already are aware of mazda poor customer service.

Originally posted by Gyro
do the NV RAM clearing procedure. Its harmless and if your oil meter sweeps up and down you have the "L" configuration.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-0072.gif

Ta Gyro, will have a go but not sure if the leg is up to it!!

Telescopically Yours, Gomez

Its like a dog scratching a flea.....as someone said.:D

I tried it, it doesn't appear that I have "L" Installed....

Gomez.

Timbo

Having read canzoomers threads , from what i understand we all have same ECU but have different flashes on it .

He states that even the ECU in Japan are identical other than the programing .

Your neighborhoods Mazda dealers mechanic can look up the different version of re-flashes on their MAZDA service system .

According to Maurice (canzoomer )there are a total of 4 released so far for North America , 3 in Japan , 3 in Australia , 2 in Europe.

Maurice said he is working on compiling the details so he can post them on the internet some time soon for those who are interested. He said it is easy to get the Version numbers this way, but more difficult to find out what issues each reflash is targeted at.

With the latest reflash there are some clear gains for everyone, specifically better fuel economy.

As soon as there is more info, it hopefully will come our way.

Cheers
Michael

oops i think i somehow unsubscribed myself without really wanting to i f$%%CK UP.

So far I have interrogated my PCM and it is telling me...

Well - all I have got is the first 3 characters = N3J

(4E 33 4A hex)

So I must be on the right path... One of the OBDII service numbers can request a "Calibration ID" info type.

Dunno why I can't get the rest. Perhaps we only paid for 3 bytes :D

BUT - N3J is not N3H :eek:

I was hoping there was an easy way to do it like I think we could on the Commodores. If you held the "mode" switch in while you turned the ignition on, it went into this special local mini-diagnostic mode. It cycled through all this info (on the trip computer LCD display/readout), like RPM, temps, %fuel, and also the calibration # of the PCM. I guess IT guys would call it the firmware version.

If anyone works out how to do this on an RX-8, they win a free Hymee Grill kit.

Note: Answers like "Go to dealer and get him to check with WDS", or do the flea-itch thing and see if the needle sweeps are not eligible for the prize.

Cheers,
Hymee.

edit: fixed up wrong 3rd byte originally posted. Do'h.

Originally posted by Gomez
I tried it, it doesn't appear that I have "L" Installed....

Gomez.

My car is Jan 04 build and also doesn't appear to have this.

I am so confused.... I don't understand one word that Hymee said. I look so dumb :(

Someone explain to me what is going on! Please :)

Originally posted by takahashi
I am so confused.... I don't understand one word that Hymee said. I look so dumb :(

Someone explain to me what is going on! Please :)

Hymee is trying to figure out what firmware version he has loaded in his PCM (ECU).

Namely, he wants to see if he has the "L" calibration. This is the latest update from Mazda, and contains new fuel maps. The new maps are leaner and said to be all around superior.

He has a OBII compliant scan tool and is trying to find out a way to make the scan tool tell him what version he has. The info that the tool has given him is inconclusive and therefor he is asking for help in finding out what version he has.

Oh this makes sense... then how are we going to "tune" the ECU. With the method that L&L posted?

It sounds too easy to be true to "tune" a computer with an epileptic leg

No, all the leg work does is enable you to see which version of the ECU software you have installed. If you have the latest "L" version, you will be rewarded for your leg work by the oil pressure needle swinging from low to half and then back to low.

Hymee is trying to 'read' the version data with his kit, but I guess Mazda's data protocol is difficult to unscramble.

… the leg work won't tune the 8, but it will be good for your cycling, taka ;)

Taka,

I know why my post was so hard to understand. I wrote the work "can" when I meant to write "can't". I have fixed it now. Sorry to confuse you :p.

There is a big difference between "Tuning", "Reflashing" and "Resetting".

Resetting (the leg jobby thing) is just clearing some "learned" settings, which basically equate to fuel trims that keep you cars AFR's as a pre-determined level. The computer will re-learn them with time.

Reflashing is the process where the dealer connects to the car via the diagnostic connector and replaces the contents of the computer with a new calibration. Essentially think of this as the fuel and spark tables. It could also incorportate "bug fixes" in the firmware.

Tuning is where an experienced guru makes adjustments to various things related to the "calibration" to get optimal performance. In the RX-8's case this is currently done using a Piggy Back controller. In the old days it was done by making adjustments to the distributor carburettor. These days it can be done electronically via various methids. Tuning can also be where an inexperienced tosser makes adjustments and causes the engine to lunch itself because he didn't know what he was doing. I suppose that is de-tuning :)

Cheers,
Hymee

Originally posted by Hymee

Reflashing is the process where the dealer connects to the car via the diagnostic connector and replaces the contents of the computer with a new calibration. Essentially think of this as the fuel and spark tables. It could also incorportate "bug fixes" in the firmware.


If I may ask another question, as I don't understand fuel and spark tables :p (Hymee thinks: dumb kid) :p, as the dealer can stick a diagnostic connector and replaces the contents of the ECU... what limitation do they have with that procedure that only a piggy back can do?

i'm happy with the way my car is running at the moment. Will the leg thingy make any noticable change to the car as in how it reacts/preforms until it re-learns what it resets?

make sense?

Actually, there's two 'leggy' things being talked about here.

The one mentioned earlier in this thread, with the extract from the TSB, is simply to test which version of the ECU calibration software you have. To do this, you turn the ignition on, pump the brake 20 time in 8 secs, and if you have the latest "L" calibration software, the oil pressure needle will swing back and forwards.

A "Reset" involves, as I recall, disconnecting the battery and removing any residual charge by pumping the brake. This resets the fuel trims, as Hymee mentions, plus radio presets and trip odometers. Note, there is a special procedure set out in the manual when you restart to ensure the DSC/ABS etc is properly restarted/calibrated.

I did the version check yesterday, after having my belated 20K service last week where I know the WDS was attached. My ECU is still not the "L" version.

Isn't it the case that the reflashes mentioned refer only to US spec cars?

We may have the same basic hardware, but if the original software is different to ours (which apparently it is) then surely the reflashes would not work correctly on our cars anyway?

I thought that reflashes generally only made amendments to certain lines of code, rather than did complete replacements. No?

Certainly, in general computing you can screw things up by applying the wrong flash as it can replace the wrong lines of code. I.e. the same line number may refer to completely different instructions, depending on the version.

Isn't this a case of Mazda making changes to the US maps and specs, that were different in our cars anyway? Wouldn't any flashes or 'patches' need to be Aussie specific, or we'd end up with a similar - or possibly worse - experience to fitting Canzoomer's original piggyback box. No?

BVD,

Agree with you in principle (and please don't tell me how one can stuff up a program through misplaced code -- there are legends… :eek: ), but according to the information earlier in this thread, sourced from Canzoomer, there have been three ECU flashes released relating to the Australian ECU. Unfortunately, no-one, including especially Oz Mazda dealers (!) has any more information on when these are applied. They may just relate to a specific MIL fault condition, or they may be general.

But it is certainly more than conceivable that Mazda could be offering different 'tunes' through these flashes, without any damage. So you could have, for eg, an economy tune or a performance tune -- perhaps even a climate based tune.

You are absolutely correct it is important to have flashes that specifically relate to the Australian model, but we know no more than that at this stage.

I am just about to take laptop out to car and try to get some more bytes :) of that CalID I mentioned earlier.

I thought the leggy thing was also a NVRAM reset, meaning it cleared all the trims etc, same as a "reset"

WRT to Taka's Q on piggy backs etc...

A piggy back like the CZ unit basically (in laymans terms) making % ajustments to fuel/spark. So the "tune" in the piggy back is specific to the tune in the PCM. If you have your PCM reflashed, and the fuel/spark tables are different than the piggy back is expecting, you will get less than optimal results. All these different PCM calibrations could be a nightmare to manage from the piggy-back point of view.

Fuel and Spark tables... Again a simple explanation. The computer looks at various imputs from sensors on the engine, and for certain conditions (e.g. RPM, Throttle, Air Flow ,... ,...) it looks up a table to see how much fuel to pump in on the next injector pulse, and when to fire the spark plugs. The piggy back essentially tricks the computer to look up a different part of the table, to get a more desirable fuel dose. I believe the spark on the CZ style unit is controlled directly by the piggy back (i.e. on the output), whereas the fuel is still controlled by PCM.

I believe the Ric Shaw unit controls the fuel directly as well as the spark.

Cheers,
Hymee.

You can see some details and photos of Ric Shaw's unit in this thread Ric Shaw unit (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18612&perpage=10&pagenumber=4)

OK, here's the deal as far as I can find out, officially, in Australia :)

I spoke with the Service Manager at my dealer today about ECU update flashes. He was very open with me and said he had not heard anything, but promised to call MA and get back to me, which he did do, in under 2 hours. ;)

He said Mazda Australia told him there had been 'a couple' of updates issued, and that these were available to Mazda dealers through the WDS. MA is not making any claims about performance or economy issues, just that these are 'updates'.

I will be getting mine in about 3 weeks, when I already had the car booked in for a new trunk seal.

So, my advice -- ask, and help them help themselves!

I went to my trusted dealer yesterday, and talked to my main man. We got the WDS out to check the cal in the car. The Calibration ID for my vehicle is:

N3J6-18881-E

(I got the first 3 digits correct with my Hymee Special Scan Tool! - but I got some more work to do to get the rest of the message...)

My car is a July '03 build (22nd from memory). The WDS gets updated monthly via a CD that is sent to the dealers. My man assured me his WDS was up-to-date.

The WDS reported the above calibration ID, and also that this was up to date, and did not require a new calibration to be flashed to the PCM.

Anyone else want to get theirs checked so we can start our own database of cals for Aussy cars. Since I think my car was probably on the seconds boat load from Japan, I find it difficult to believe that there are 3 different calibrations for the Australian RX-8's unless of course we count Manual/Auto, and if there was a difference between leather and cloth packs.

When I get some more work done on my cal tool, I can bring it to get togethers so we can check out others cars without having to hassle the dealer. I'll make sure I bring it to Wakefield, and the next SE Qld cruise.

Cheers,
Hymee.

I'll have that info after 26/3 -- if nothing else, we can see if there is any butt-based performance difference at the Wakefield track day, and maybe you can interrogate mine with your laptop.

I suppose if forum members go to mazda dealerships and conduct their own Ecu tests on 2004 delivered RX8 , then we might find out if their ECU have been updated .

Testing procedure is as follows :


Turn ignition switch to"ON" position , but do not start engine .
Depress and release brake pedal at least 20 times within an 8 second period.


If the oil pressure indicator does not move that means they have not been re-flashed with the"L" flash .

I will be going to my dealer on monday to carry out the test on some showroom RX8'S .

Cheers
michael

I'm sure all the sales guys are gonna love that!

My point is that there is not a newer "flash" available for the Australian cars, otherwise the WDS would have said so. (Assuming the WDS has the latest updates. I will check regularly)

And the leg shake thingy doesn't tell us which calibration version you have.

I mearly indicates at least "L", but when "M" or later comes out, how would you know which one you had? And for those with a -ve on the leg pump test, what version do you have before "L"??

So when your finished at your dealer, will you know exactly what cal is in those cars? Only if they plug the WDS in and have a look. Or you use a CAN compliant OBDII scan tool, like what I am working on.

Note - my Cal was "E" which is a long way from "L". I think there is a lot more to this.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Post of the day goes to Hymee.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

I assume you meant 2 posts? (He said cheekily :eek: ;) )

Actually I saw you were on line, and I was hoping you would see this one, knowing you would like and appreciate the info.

Cheers,
Hymee.

L&L, save your leg....my car came in on the last shipment, (in dock on 20Feb04), and it hasn't got the "L" cal...

Gomez.

But I will gladly pass on the post of the day award if you can tell which cal it has got!

Cheers,
Hymee.

The thing is -- a typical problem with Mazda Australia -- that we have two different sets of information, both of which might be correct. My dealer says, after prompting, there is an update. Hymee's says his is current. But reading the US threads, the updates are only provided there if someone a MIL warning or complains about fuel consumption.

Actually, as a software guy, I understand this. Both are 'current', with one being applied under specific scenarios

But...

If there was any update available on the WDS my car was plugged into, then it would have said so... Yeah?

Cheers,
Hymee.

No, I don't think so -- I think it may be an update that needs to be identified and selected, perhaps based on fault report or some override. I guess all will be revealed on 26th, unless anyone does it earlier

Originally posted by Lock & Load
The 1st bulletin shows the PCM for the manual car as :N3H6 -18 -881K .

The second bulletin shows the PCM for the manual as :N3H6-1-881L.

The PCM ending with the letter...... K ..... is the current one we have in the AUSTRALIAN CARS , the upgraded re-flashed PCM ends with the letter ....L ....Supposedly not available here in Australia .


I just was re-reading this, and noticed this, and it didn't ocurr to me at the time to check against my findings.

My car has N3J6-18881-E

Also, I posted somewhere about a prize for finding out what cal is in your car (without using WDS or a scan tool). My PCM has a sticker on it with the N3J6-18881-E number on it. The problem with that is if the dealer flashes them with an update, do they bother putting a new sticker on? Probably not. This method is not applicable to claim the prize.

Cheers,
Hymee.

where is the pcm/ecu located ? i never even looked

Under the cover that is toward the Drivers side of the battery cover.

3 screws/bolts to remove, and a small amount of Zen.


Open Bonnet.
Move hose sitting in loose clip on rear of battery cover out of the way.
Remove Battery cover.
Move hose on loose clip on side of PCM cover out of the way.
Remove 3 bolts holding PCM cover on.
Unclip the 2 cable clips from the cover.
Carefull ease the clips open that are down the side between the cover and the front guard. They just need a small amount of persuasion.
Lift the cover off.


You should be able to see the sticker without having to remove or disconnect the PCM.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee, while I was out tearing the boot apart 'cos pricer01 made me....I took the opportunity to add to the firmware confusion.

My PCM differs from yours...it has a sticker indicating N3J6 18 881F ...

So, mine's "F" and your's is "E".....and the Yanks have "L".

What does it all mean I wonder???!!!

Would be interesting to know what change occurred b'ween "E" and "F"......

Quizzically Yours, Gomez.

See Hymee, I told you the pov pack has a different ECU!

Originally posted by Wildcard
See Hymee, I told you the pov pack has a different ECU!

Dan

I think Hymee will be taking you of HIS NUMBER ONE list getting the Rick Shaw /HYMEE /SILENT PARTNER ECU .

He gets touchy when anyone talks about his poverty pack RX8.

I see you are bracking your record 3 replies in a row wow.

cheers
michael

HEY,I'VE GOT THE POV PACK....!!!

Gomez.

Please see the following reply to an inquiry from me from Mazda Australia.

"Mazda Australia is unaware of any software upgrade for the engine management system with the RX8 to date. However, as with any product improvements or enhancements, Mazda Australia will make this advice available through our dealer network.

Regards

Michael Minenna
Customer Service Manager - Technical
Mazda Australia"

This seems to be an official and authoritative answer. It will probably not satisfy all correspondents to this forum, particularly those who see rotary symbols among mysterious crop circles.

That corresponds to what I found when we plugged mine into the WDS and it said no updates available.

Thanks Gomez for checking. It adds to the confusion, as yours is the cloth pack like mine.

What you need to do now is get friendly with your service manager and mechanic at your dealer, and get them to plug the WDS in and check for PCM updates. It will put up on the screen the calibration number. I would like to see if it is the same "version" as the sticker.

I think L&L posted the "part number" from his leather pack PCM some time ago.

How about I start a small database of cross referencing members cars wrt build date, cloth/leather, CalID (sticker), CalID(WDS)? I'll leave VIN numbers off to help respect privacy.

L&L, I think I coined the phrase Poverty Pack. It doesn't bother me anyway. Especially since we determined they are faster http://www.hymee.com/smilies/sm_poke.gif

What is the breaking records sh|t about?

Cheers,
Hymee

HYMEE

WILCARD replied to 3 threads in a row unussual for him as he his a man of few words .

Thats the shit i was referring to .

Dont worry be happy.

cheers
michael

OIC. Not worried, always happy :)

Hymee, for what possible reason would a dead cow equipped 8 have a different cal...???

Gomez.

Well, we thought about that a few weeks ago when my car dyno'ed without exhibiting the "Safe Mode" symptoms. These have been witnessed on Wildcards leather pack.

So far I have only had these two cars to report on. I'm pretty sure Ric Shaw was sure he had the problem on his car. For sure.

I also just got more confused looking at the MNAO TSB 01-011/04 - Engine Cranks No Start (follow link - click here) (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-011-04.htm)

It clearly mentions the CalID in the format N3H6EK00013H6020.
Mine was reported as N3J618881E, which is a different format.

Me needs to check with the SM again this morning.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Originally posted by Gomez
Hymee, for what possible reason would a dead cow equipped 8 have a different cal...???

Gomez.

Drives slower so you can smell the leather :D

You need to get something for all that extra Moo-lah they milk from ya for the leather pack :)

Bad Cow Pun.

HYMEE

My original theory that somehow your car has missed out on being circumsised ( power out put being lowered with different ECU package febore being released .

Mazda wants to use our cars as guinea pigs and has deliberetily put differing flashes on the ECU to sit back and observe , which one works the best E or F .

i WOULD LIKE A STRAIGHT ANSWER FROM MAZDA FOR ONCE .

My service manager cant even get me an answer from MAZDA HEAD OFFICE as to whether there is a upgrade on our ECU .

CHEERS
MICHAEL

Well, as promised, I had my ECU reflashed at my dealer today.

My ECU CalID is now N3J618881E, which is exactly the same as Hymee's (see above). Unfortunately, I didn't watch like a hawk, so when I asked what the previous ID was, the tech said "oh I didn't take a note". But, according to the WDS, the above CalID is an upgrade on the original factory spec. Given I have a very low VIN, I guess I may have had one of the real originals.

Makes you think: what will a "mint, original" veteran RX-8 mean, in 50 years time? Why, even the ECU is as it left the factory!! :D :D

Good posting Timbo.

Minus 1/2 mark for not checking the existing VIN. :p

I wonder if Mazda will reply to an email from you asking what the CalID was on your car when it left the factory - before the re-flash.

I also wonder what the Canzoomer Mod would have been like on L&L's since his has been reflashed. He reported his car is "more like mine" since his reflash.

So many questions, so little answers...

Cheers,
Hymee.

The tech asked me to let him know if the car felt any different. It does feel a little 'perkier' but it could be my imagination :confused:

That is what L&L reckons. And remember his is an "early" one, and he felt my car was crisper as well. Now he thinks his feels more like what he remembers mine to be.

hi timbo

i'm taking my rx-8 in on monday to change the heat shield. can i ask them to check and flash the ecu at the same visit?

did you have to push them hard to do it?

i've got a really early rx-8 (arrived in late june 2003).

thanks for the info.

mike

No, I didn't have to push them hard. In fact I challenged them by acting a bit dumb and saying that another 8 owner had told me there was an ECU update, and would they check. The Service Manager said he telephoned MA, found out there was, and booked me in. I didn't pay, either.

Sounds like yours is even earlier than mine, which was a June 03 build, therefore I'd reckon yours would definitely be subject to the update.

Oh, and try to find out what version you had before -- they should pick this up on the WDS before they reflash. I was asleep at the time, and they don't seem to be able to get that data after the reflash.

Good luck -- and let us know how you get on. Oh, and if your dealer has the heat shield parts yet. I'd like to know whether in my case the f**k up was the dealer or MA

thanks for the info timbo.

i like the playing dumb part. it's always good to say that the upgrade exists and someone else has done it already.

hopefully they have the part. they seem to know about the recall when i called.

when i had my sump replaced, it took 2 days as Ford Australia would not release the part to the dealer without all the paper required.

i'll get them to record the CalID before they flash the ECU.

cheers

mike

Yeah - the CalID is available via the WDS:

Powertrain > ODB test modes > Mode 9 - Vehicle Information

Have a look at http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-011-04.htm for details showing the sequence. Note that the US cars seem to have a slightly different version numbering - 16 digits compared to out 10 digits.

What we need to do now, is see if the "safe mode" issue happens with the N3J618881E calibration. I say this because the only 2 cars I have experienced on the dyno have been Wildcard's and mine. We know my CalID is the latest (well I have checked, and Timbo's since got the same. Wildcards is earlier than mine so I might be able to assume his is the older Cal.

Good work, guys!

Cheers,
Hymee.

I checked the sticker on my ECU this afternoon:

N3J6 18-881D

My car was a pre-order. VIN ending 100319.

Hope this adds another piece to the puzzle....

Wildcard,

Good work. Lets assume, until proven otherwise, that the sticker on the PCM tells us the factory CalID. After a reflash, all bets are off :)

So somewhere between 319 and 499 we went from "D" calibrations to "E" calibrations.

OK - So lets try to narrow this down! My car wasn't a pre-order, but I am pretty sure it was on the second boat load here.

If you don't want to post your VIN here, thats OK. Just say something like:

I saw a "320" with "N3J6 18-881D"
or
I saw a "498" with "N3J6 18-881E"


Cheers,
Hymee.

Just to clarify, mine is a pre-order pov pack, and I saw a "052", and now have N3J6 18-881E

Well, a very stupid question/clarification, you have to puck in the WDS to see what version of ECU you have? or is there an other way? :confused:

Taka,

On 1134 posts I thought you would have read a few as well!!

There are 3 ways I know of:

1. WDS.
2. Scan Tool.
3. Read the sticker on the PCM.

Methods 1 and 2 will tell you the current cal. Method 3 will only tell you which one was in it when it left the factory.

Method 4 is to ask Mazda Australia what it had in it when it was new. Well I thought that was a fair and reasonable question. I even asked nicely. But they refused to tell me. Go figure.

Cheers,
Hymee.

I ask because I know about WDS but I just wonder if there is any easier method of finding out. I just wonder if my dealer (City Mazda) knows anything about it.

Hey Lock,

Great work providing those Service Bulletins from Mazda re the ECU version letters!!!!!!!!!

I put my car in today for the recall issue and told them my mpg sucked and it was running rough, I was having trouble getting them interested until I produced copies of the Bulletins.

They were extremely interested where I got them from (I told them a semi retired BUM on the Gold Coast :D ), and then advised that they have the reflash and will install it today!

The Power of the People!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do we need helmets for Friday @ Wakefield.............and before you all start, its not because I'm that bad a driver and if I was, the rest of you should wear helmets!

Emack

You should bring your helmet , and a few other tricks up your sleeve .ha ha ha
Looking forward to seeing you in person .

cheers
michael

which copies of the bulletin did you show emack?

How "old" are your VINs on those cars that are getting re-flashed?

Just trying to determine the VINs before/after the switchover to the "E" cal.

So far, the earliest VIN with the latest flash is 499.

Cheers,
Hymee

This thread is very interesting to me as there is the strong possibilty that Mrs Saru and I will be looking for used RX-8s in a few years time.

It makes me wonder how many other things like ECU updates I'll have to check to make sure I'm buying a good one.

I am 801 so I think I am safe, am I?

Originally posted by Saru

It makes me wonder how many other things like ECU updates I'll have to check to make sure I'm buying a good one.

I notice in the instructions to US dealers they are advised to place a sticker on the ECU after each update, advising of its update status. Doesn't happen here unless the dealer is really zealous (=never) :(

HYMEE
MY VIN ends in 223 and i have had the Latest re-flash to E .
cheers
michael

"have had" meaning you don't have one before. What is the date of productions of yours?

hi guys

i just got my rx-8 back from recall. they changed the heat shield. i also asked them about the PCM/ECU upgrade. they didn't know anything about it. they checked and they said that new software had arrived. it's being flashed but they didn't tell me which version it was. i guess it is the E of hymee's.

the car feels quite different when you drive it below 4K on the tach. before it was sluggish but now it feels zippier! haven't tested the economy yet but i love the responsiveness down low now.

thanks for your assistance guys. this forum helps keep our beloved RX-8s in top shape!

cheers

mike

TAKAHASHI
My car was made in may 03 delivered in july 26th to me , i have the E re-flash.

cheers
michael

Originally posted by mktchin
hi guys

i just got my rx-8 back from recall. they changed the heat shield. i also asked them about the PCM/ECU upgrade. they didn't know anything about it. they checked and they said that new software had arrived. it's being flashed but they didn't tell me which version it was. i guess it is the E of hymee's.

the car feels quite different when you drive it below 4K on the tach. before it was sluggish but now it feels zippier! haven't tested the economy yet but i love the responsiveness down low now.

mike



Thats funny because i today i picked mine up after the heat shield replacement and i must say it does feel a bit zippier.

Merged 2 threads - basically the same, and silly trying to search through both for the same info.

Current standings:

100319 before the "E" Flash

?????? = VIN of the first "E" Flash

100499 after the "E" Flash

100801 Earliest reported "F" Calibration from factory. Sept '03 Build.

Cheers,
Hymee.

hi ageo

you notice it on take off from idle. the top end part feels the same. it's just the rev range below 4000.

so they didn't tell you about hte PCM upgrade. you should ask them if they upgraded it just out curiousity.

mike

well, my 8's having the heat shield replaced at the moment. I also asked them to upgrade the PCM/ECU. I can't wait till i pick it up on Wednesday.

Donald

Why is it that Mazda is re-flashing these cars with the "E" flash, when the current RX-8's flash is "F", like my car...(Jan 04 build)????

Gomez.

GOMEZ

Mazda head office , has not as yet given the mazda dealers the discs for the F flash , they are most likely not aware of it and have not passed it on .

Have you driven a E flashed rx8 is there a difference between the cars .

cheers
michael

i only assume it was the E flash. they didn't actually say what it was except that it was upgraded. and i didn't ask what version was installed.

it could be the F flash. they mentioned that the disc only arrived a few days ago.

mike

Gomez

I have learnt a cheap lesson in buying my rx8 and being one of the first deliveries .

In the future i wont be parting with my dollars on the first group of buyers the benefits are not worth it , iwill wait as u have and picked up a car with the latest ECU hardware it sucks that the most and first loyal buyers of the rx8 are being well and truly screwed by mazda .

If it wasnt for this forum we all would be totally in the dark about most aspects of our cars .

If and when the next rotary RX7 comes out i will wait at least 1 year before and if i commit myself to another purchase from mazda .

CHEERS
MICHAEL

^^^^^^^^^^

Ha haa ROFLMAO :D

Welcome to software, baby! Pick up a car with the latest ECU! It'll never happen. L&L, let's face it. You've had more fun being an early adopter, picking up all those admiring glances (and pussy??!! ;) ) than would have happened had you waited.

It's not as if the update performs magic -- this is modern car-tuning… and the ECU tune you just got will always be obsolete. :p

Welcome to early-adopter land! It hurts sometimes, but mostly it's fun :D

Originally posted by mktchin
hi ageo

you notice it on take off from idle. the top end part feels the same. it's just the rev range below 4000.

so they didn't tell you about hte PCM upgrade. you should ask them if they upgraded it just out curiousity.


Yes i have noticed, and for some reason the accelerator pedal is a bit more sensitive. I didnt ask them about anything (just picked it up). But since the service manager & advisor are both italians and i found out they knew my father years ago, they have agreed to keep me posted with any new things happening. I will ring tomorrow about the ECU upgrade when i get my mazda rotary oil.

Time for me to contribute to the PCM/VIN register. I've just checked and I have an 'F' Flash like Gomez, however I have the leather pack and he has the cloth pack I believe.

As an aside, I don't drive efficiently by any stretch of the imagination, plus its hot and humid in Darwin most of the time. My fuel efficiency for city driving seems to vary between 11.9L/100Km and 12.1L/100km. Not too bad compared with some other reports I've seen in this forum. Something to do with my PCM flash perhaps?

To summarise: I have VIN ending 100911, Build Date Oct 03, PCM N3J618881F

Oh, to clarify, my car came with the 'F' flash originally. I haven't had it checked or reflashed yet. :)

I better go and check it out this weekend... hangon I should speak to them first!

I went to my service guys this morning, and we got the WDS out to check again. The WDS had "the latests updates installed last week" so was as "up-to-date" as it could be.

The WDS reported that my "E" flash was the lastest (no upgrade available).

So I can only conclude that the "F" flash has not been released to WDS yet.

Cheers,
Hymee.

L&L, no I haven't driven an "E" flash car, so I can't make a comparison.....I'm very happy with the performance of my car and honestly don't think I need any more KW!

I've done the drag racing to death in earlier cars, had a fang around Mallala, Winton, and Calder during club days......Got the speed thing out of my system.

Now I enjoy a "spirited" drive in a well built, great handling car with adequate performance.

My fuel economy is in line with that of NT Rotor Head's.....14k/100Km on the first tank, 11K/100Km's being the best I've seen. Done 2200K's now.

Regards, Go "Bowling hat on the rear parcel shelf" mez.

I think just leave it until next time you check your car Gomaz. I will check with City Mazda this week to see if they have updated WDS...

They are sometimes clueless depends who you speak to. I will try to speak to Brain

I Spoke to my service manager today and he told me that they did the WDS to download all the latest data on the vehicle but not upgrade's to the ECU.

I am having my heat shield replaced on Friday and the dealer has agreed to reflash the ecu so it will be very interesting to see what difference there is.

I will let everyone know after I get the car back.

Well, after settling in the last few days to the "E" update, my subjective judgements are that:
- it is nippier, especially low down as others have mentioned;
- fuel economy may be better but it will be a while before I have data to support.

oh it will be fun to see the "Timbo data" pre and post flash :eek:

Hey smoothy, about what VIN range is yours, presuming now it has the "pre-E" cal?

Mine is having the heat insulator checked/replaced tomorrow at its 20,000 service.

Cheers,
Hymee.

hi all

my wife drove the rx-8 today after the ecu upgrade and she felt it was more responsive in the lower rev range.

i wonder if i have the F flash. the dealer only got the new discs recently.

my brother's getting his car back tomorrow. i'll get him to ask the service which version was installed.

mike

I just got mine back from having the heat damper replaced and while I was there I asked about the reflash and the service guy was going to check it out for me. On my return to pickup the car he said there was no updates currently available to the ECU. GO FIGURE.

That is not such a big deal. How old is the car? What is the VIN range. Mine is an E flash around the 500 mark. They don't necessarliy send the latest flash out on WDS the day the cars leave the factory with it. It takes some time to trickle through.

It is quite funny though, as once all you guys start getting "tune ups" you won't want your PCM reflashed anymore!!!

Cheers,
Hymee.

Thanks Hymee,
My VIN range is in the 350-400 range and the car has a build date of July 03. Excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by "tune ups"?

Originally posted by vafuncool
My VIN range is in the 350-400 range and the car has a build date of July 03.

We know these:

319 is "Pre E".
WDS is saying "E" is the lastest.

Assuming your dealers WDS was as up-to-date as my dealers, then that would put it in the "E" range I'd say. If you PM me your VIN, I'll update the list. Yours seems the earliest "E" we now know of so far.

Originally posted by vafuncool
Excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by "tune ups"?

What I mean is if anyone "tunes up" then car with a chip/piggy-back or even manages to reflash the PCM with their own "tune", then you wouldn't want the PCM re-flashed, as:

(a) the mappings in the chip/piggyback would not necessarily be compatible with the new Cal (in the case of a chip or piggy-back), or

(b) you would obliterate you own "tune" (in the case of a custom PCM calibration

Lots of fun, hey!

Cheers,
Hymee.

Originally posted by vafuncool
I just got mine back from having the heat damper replaced and while I was there I asked about the reflash and the service guy was going to check it out for me. On my return to pickup the car he said there was no updates currently available to the ECU. GO FIGURE.

Just to confirm, vafuncool. Your service guy said there was no update -- but did he tell you the current 'version number' you had installed, ie, that it was in fact the version ending with 'E'.

I'm only doing this because, IME, there's an awful lot of ignorance in the service depts of Mazda dealers, and if he hasn't installed the latest WDS service CD, then the answer he gave is correct in terms of his WDS, but not in terms of the current state of play for ECU updates.

This is software update/upgrade 101 learning time for dealers, methinks :eek:

Sometimes it is hard to get "behind the scenes". Service centers should cater for those interested enough. I watched my "cal" get checked, so I could see the numbers for myself.

Unfortuneatley, the guys behind the counter don't always know what is going on. Today, I asked the "counter" what oil was put in. "This Castrol Synthetic" stuff was the answer, and I was shown a brochure. "But Mazda says the Rotary Oil is recommended" I said. I asked the workshop forman, and he said, no we cant get any of the Castrol stuff. We used our last 3 bottles of the genuine Mazda oil in your car. Here - have the leftovers. So I got a 1 litre bottle with about 300ml left in it for top ups :)

Just goes to show!

Cheers,
Hymee.

We should get an order of the mazda oil to the dealer quick... Oh I should go and hunt for more this weekend - sounds like the people are using them quick

You're right Timbo, I don't think the service guy checked my car's ECU at all. He said that he gets emails from MA nearly every day and there was no mention of any reflashes to the ECU.

Originally posted by vafuncool
You're right Timbo, I don't think the service guy checked my car's ECU at all. He said that he gets emails from MA nearly every day and there was no mention of any reflashes to the ECU.

Apparently, the WDS updates come into the dealers on CDs. It is then up to the service guys in the dealerships to update the WDS. If they haven't done that update :mad: then the WDS will say there is not one for your car. :(

Originally posted by Gomez
Hymee, while I was out tearing the boot apart 'cos pricer01 made me....I took the opportunity to add to the firmware confusion.

My PCM differs from yours...it has a sticker indicating N3J6 18 881F ...

So, mine's "F" and your's is "E".....and the Yanks have "L".

What does it all mean I wonder???!!!

Would be interesting to know what change occurred b'ween "E" and "F"......

Quizzically Yours, Gomez.

Ah guys i just check my pcm number.
lol to confuse things even more mine came to

N3J6 18 881D


not sure what the hell that means but my car was made August 03.

Hey smoothy, about what VIN range is yours, presuming now it has the "pre-E" cal?

The vin is 258 and build date is June 03. It was one of the first in QLD so it should qualify for the reflash.

BTW did you get the email I sent you - Your PM box was full?

I have now had the benefit of driving my car for a few days since I got the latest flash installed in the PCM.

There appears to me to be significantly more pull in the three to five thousand rev range. Very pleasing. Interestingly I have detected more of a burned oil smell since the work was done to the car. I did have the new heat shield installed so it could possibly be this part giving off some vapours whilst it is getting used to the heat this motor generates or maybe they are injecting a little more oil into the motor to keep temperatures down as they have leaned it out a little?

Forget "F" flash, the Yanks have the "M" flash now!!

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25153

Gomez.

Originally posted by Gomez
Forget "F" flash, the Yanks have the "M" flash now!!

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25153

Gomez.

There CalID's use a different number system than ours.

Cheers,
Hymee

For example, the yanks don't spell a lot of thing with an "a" to it... like hematology or pediatrics... now my spell checker is playing up :)

Originally posted by Hymee
There CalID's use a different number system than ours.

Cheers,
Hymee

Yeah, just pointing out that Mazda has obviously been working overtime on new flashes, at least for the U.S market, the "L" flash wasn't that old!

Hold on L&L, you may be up for another $66!!!!

Gomez.

Also, there are going to be different IDs for autos, where change points etc are altered

now that it has gone timbo, you can tell me.......!

I had the CEL come on yesterday. I took it in this morning. I just got mine flashed with the "L" My vin is 82.

Originally posted by Gomez
now that it has gone timbo, you can tell me.......!

Knowledge requires effort but here it is (http://www.seeing-stars.com/ImagePages/GummoMarxGravePhoto.shtml)

Originally posted by timbo
Knowledge requires effort but here it is (http://www.seeing-stars.com/ImagePages/GummoMarxGravePhoto.shtml)

Thank's man, I didn't see the photo there and I assume you sent me there to start me on a greater quest for the truth! Here's to my new avatar...!

Gomez.

OK - I found it... http://granfalloon2001.tripod.com/granny2001/comedy6early/marxgummopage.htm

Nice one Timbo. I like your new avatar better. Must have been taken by a real genuine alround nice type guy :)

And Gomez, this one is nicer: http://rx8.hymee.com/images/yummy.gif

A friend found it on some forum somewhere as a members avatar. Source unknown.

Now - Back on topic please :)

you have changed Gomez... how much did the surgery costed you?

Originally posted by Hymee
Now - Back on topic please :)

Just b4 we do....thank's for the Gummo search result, good find.....and very tasty GIF, however you have missed the point regarding the selection of this particular avatar.....I'm tippin' TC will have a chuckle.....:D :D

Taka....., if I could guarantee a result like this, I'd pay whatever it cost...!

Gomez.

Just checked ecu and found to have "F" flash as standard.
Build date oct 03 ,delivered Nov 03.
Vin ending in 00848.
Fuel consumption 15l/100km with spirited driving.
I have poverty pack ie cloth trim and am very happy with power esp after reaching 4000km.

Regards
george "Rexi" Thomas

Rexi - that is the earliest F flash we have heard of. Thanks!

Rexi ... I am 801 (sept 30 build date - so it is the same shipment)so I guess I will find out next Tuesday what i am.

According to some Mazda technical info I was reading, there is supposed to be a "code" somewhere on a sticker in some accessible place that tells what the Calibration is. I haven't looked yet. Not - it was MNAO info I was reading, but it did say the sticker was applied in the factory/on the assembly line.

Originally posted by Gomez
Just b4 we do....thank's for the Gummo search result, good find.....and very tasty GIF, however you have missed the point regarding the selection of this particular avatar.....I'm tippin' TC will have a chuckle.....:D :D


For those who missed why Gomez has changed his avatar, you might like to know that elsewhere I praised him on his acute powers to recall diverse matters discussed in a whole range of threads ... hence that his memory ... was larger than Pamela Anderson's :D

Now change back, Gomez -- you are distracting everyone, and all threads are going off topic.

BTW, I reckon the calibration (struggles to get back on topic) of Gomez's avatar is "E", but I demur to Lock & Load, who claims superior knowledge in these matters :D :p

Originally posted by timbo
For those who missed why Gomez has changed his avatar, you might like to know that elsewhere I praised him on his acute powers to recall diverse matters discussed in a whole range of threads ... hence that his memory ... was larger than Pamela Anderson's :D

Now change back, Gomez -- you are distracting everyone, and all threads are going off topic.

BTW, I reckon the calibration (struggles to get back on topic) of Gomez's avatar is "E", but I demur to Lock & Load, who claims superior knowledge in these matters :D :p

Your wish is my command, Master....

With regards to the cal on my car, I just reported sticker details of my PCM....mine had "F" where Hymee's had "E"and Ageo's had "D"....I have no WDS info of the cal in my car.....

Regards, Gomez.

Originally posted by Gomez
Your wish is my command, Master....

With regards to the cal on my car, I just reported sticker details of my PCM....mine had "F" where Hymee's had "E"and Ageo's had "D"....I have no WDS info of the cal in my car.....

Regards, Gomez.

I have the F flash too... just checked with the City Mazda and they give me a number.... damn did not have that with me right now.

it is N something somthing - F No other E or D in the number and they told me it is F

Taka

Hi,

Just had my 6 months/10,000km service at John Newell - my PCM was updated to N3J6-18881-E - VIN ends in 380.

JN wasn't able to provide details on the PCM version before the upgrade and they have no details on the "F' upgrade. Their WDS is apparently up-to-date.

This is confusing - how can some cars go to "F" and others only to "E"?

Can anyone recommend a dealer in Sydney who has the "F" upgrade?

BTW - the car appears to perform more smoothly and responsively with the "E" upgrade.

Pappy.

We have only seen F on cars from the factory - none have been flashed at the dealership with F AFAIK.

I put it down to the time it takes for the flash that is going into the cars in the factory to make it onto the WDS update CD. That CD has a large distribution.

Just think how long it takes Mazda Australia to get some oil organised. :)

Originally posted by Hymee
We have only seen F on cars from the factory - none have been flashed at the dealership with F AFAIK.

I put it down to the time it takes for the flash that is going into the cars in the factory to make it onto the WDS update CD. That CD has a large distribution.



Taka reckons his car is an "F"......and its an old 2003 clunker!!

Taka, dig up the full details of your cal.....and was it upgraded by the dealer at the last service???

Gomez.

Originally posted by Hymee
We have only seen F on cars from the factory - none have been flashed at the dealership with F AFAIK.

I put it down to the time it takes for the flash that is going into the cars in the factory to make it onto the WDS update CD. That CD has a large distribution.

Just think how long it takes Mazda Australia to get some oil organised. :)

Thanks Hymee - good point. I was under the impression some cars had been upgraded to "F" locally. Maybe Taka can confirm what happened with his.

Pappy.

Gomez

Going in for my 20,000km service ,so i will talk with the guys and find out , from what i know it can take up to 3 months for dealerships to get the latest flashes .

cheers
michael

Rexi reported a October build VIN 848 with a F CalID sticker.
Taka didn't check his sticker on his September build VIN 801, but the dealer told him "F".

They have been around a little longer than we really think! Mine is a August build 499 VIN with "E".

Cheers,
Hymee.

Originally posted by Gomez
Taka reckons his car is an "F"......and its an old 2003 clunker!!

Taka, dig up the full details of your cal.....and was it upgraded by the dealer at the last service???

Gomez.

No They did not do a thing. My dad brought the car to Brighton Mazda but they refused the write the number down but told my dad that nothing upgraded/

Then I went to City Mazda to WDS -

it is number N3J6-18881-F. My VIN is 801 and build 30 Sept 2003

Is it the first "F" car... V_V

Yep - new 1st recorded/confirmed "F" goes to Taka.

Since we have recently established my car and Taka's are essentially the same....., I wish to respectfully expunge from the record, my description of Taka's ride as "a clunker", Your Honour!!!

Go "Hmmm, these words are tasty" mez.

My car goes in for service on Saturday. Its build date is 17th Sept. I will check my cal Id and let you know next week.

I will also check for upgrades.

skc

good luck... I have a feeling that you are "F" as well :D

Originally posted by skc
My car goes in for service on Saturday. Its build date is 17th Sept. I will check my cal Id and let you know next week.

I will also check for upgrades.

skc

What is your VIN?

My VIN is not far from Hymee's and surprise surprise my Cal ID is E.

Getting mine serviced later today - will ask about updates.

Follow up - got a reflash - see here for details:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27860

Had my service done at Aspley last Saturday. I was told that there were no updated available. According to the machanic the last updated the dealership recieved was around early September.

My vehicle was built in Sept 03 with vin JMOFE 103100100740.

I also spent a bit of time with the tech to try and ascertain my cal id however it seemed that we were both uncertain on how to extract this info from the computer. It seems that the training these machanics are getting seems inadequate. I walked away a bit miffed at not getting the info that I was after.

skc

I am not a trained Mazda mechanic, but on the WDS there is a "Powertrain Info" section and the CalID is reported there.

Cheers,
Hymee.

It would be nice to see what yours is SKC, as the earliest "F" we know of from the factory is VIN 801, Sept Build.

Cheers,
Hymee.

It may start from 800 onwards :D... I have a better deal than I thought I had hehe :)

As reported by sco, now confirmed by me.

Grand Prix, Aspley updated there WDS with the latest configs on Thursday 6th May. I went and had mine checked this morning by Robbie. There was a "G" clalibration available, so he did it for me :D

And the oil pressure gauge does the sweep right on cue on the 20th brake pedal pedal pump.

No tests done yet, but I will plug my scantool in tonight and have a look at the AFR's.

Onya - Robbie http://www.hymee.com/smilies/sm_thumbs.gif

Cheers,
Hymee.

Very interesting.

I look forward to seeing the what they have done to the AFR with this latest flash.

anyone in melbourne had the G flash done yet?

i'll call my dealer (essendon mazda) about it to see if they know.

going from D to E was good. G must be better?

mike

Perhaps the first 2 RX-8's with the G flash in Australia are 2 red cloth trim ones from Brisbane :) :p , both flashed at the same dealer.

As we always knew - red is faster :p :p

D to E was good - we don't know what the actual differences in E to F and F to G are. They migh only be changes to Idle, or starting or something - time will tell. I certainly think E has room for improvement in AFR's and perhaps ignition timing.

One would think that over time the recalibrations would be displaying diminishing returns, as is the case in continual refinement.

Cheers,
Hymee.

I have D which definately needs to be switched to at least E.

Hymee... love your work. Great info.

Hymee, can we get any more info? Why was "G" released.....I know "M" was released in the states to overcome flooding on start-up, but that has never been reported as a problem here.

I can only assume it backs of the AFR a tad as we all now know these things run a little rich.....good for the fuel economy, I guess.

Have had no trouble with "F", if "G" is an economy flash, we all need to know....

Gomez.

I'm about to fill my tank which of which about two thirds was driven on the new flash - if there is anything interesting to report.... you'll all hear.

It would be nice to be able to just log onto the Mazda site, go to to support, read the release notes for the latest "flash", download and update our car...

It is sort of possible, but you need to pay lots of subscription money and need some expensive hardware (at the moment).

And even then, you probably don't get the release notes!

Cheers,
Hymee.

Originally posted by Gomez


Have had no trouble with "F", if "G" is an economy flash, we all need to know....

Gomez.

If "G" is an economy flash... then would that comprimise performance?

Sco sounds very happy with it so far, arent you?

Taka

Yeah, I'm happy so far - but I haven't done any fuel economy figures yet... a little more power could mean a little more fuel :p

BTW... I only have around 8000km's on the clock... YMMV depending on how "free" the engine is.

It would be nice to be able to just log onto the Mazda site, go to to support, read the release notes for the latest "flash", download and update our car...

It would be even nicer to go there and download the MazdaSpeed "flash" for our cars.

Or order MazdaSpeed parts FREE!

it is all in our dreams!

It good to dream though!!

i just had my car in for service today, without question or asking the car was reflashed. not sure what update i got tho. I didnt even know it was done until they told me and i wasnt fussed either way until now. Now the car idles alot smoother and "seems" a bit smoother in the mid section. I'll have to play some more as i'm still adjusting from the mazda 2 courtisy car =)

oh, i have 15,700kms on the clock

the car starts easier and sounds a little different for the initial start up.

smoother running and smoother idle.

powerwise, i dont know and dont think i should say based on butt dyno, but i do know its a hella lot faster than that mazda 2 courtisy car!

hi kas

which dealer was it in melbourne?

did the oil pressure guage react to the 20 brake pedal presses in under 8seconds like sco and hymee's?

thanks

mike

Apparently Brighton Mazda are aware and are performing the re-flash.

thanks for the info.

i'll ring essendon mazda tomorrow to see if they know anything.

mike

I went for a drive and checked the AFR's last night. They are better, particularly up to 4,000 RPM. Pretty much right on the money at around the 13:1 mark. After that she looks to go a bit rich, mainly in the 12's and dipping into the 11's. "A bit rich" is according to popular wisdom. Perhaps time will tell if the Renesis does like it "a bit rich". So far, tuning efforts (from what I have read) has been aiming at the low 13:1 zone.

I did 6 accelleration runs (2nd gear, 40 km/h - 105 km/h, A/C Off, DSC/TC Off) with this new "G" flash. Temp was between 19 and 21 degrees.

I compared these with the 6 most recent runs I did with the "E" flash.

http://www.hymee.com/rx8/images/E_G comapre MR Dyno.png

Note: The fuel/ignition controller was "OFF" in all these tests. I have not made any adjustments for the differeing weights of the vehicle between when I last tested with the E flash, and the G flash last night.

Draw your own conclusions. :)

Here is the summary results of the actual time measured for each test (40km/h to 105km/h):

E Flash - Tested 21-APR-2004
5.54 s
5.54 s
5.61 s
5.62 s
5.62 s
5.62 s

G Flash - Tested 10-MAY-2004
5.36 s
5.22 s
5.22 s
5.55 s
5.47 s
5.39 s

All in chronological order. The plots above are the averages each of the six runs.

Cheers,
Hymee.

BTW - For those that might ask the next question... I did a couple of little tests with the fuel controller "ON" to check AFR. There OK, but not ideal. I did 3 runs with a best time of 5.19 and a worst of 5.23.

Great data, Hymee.

I'm sorry, I can't help myself (and am surprised that no-one has beaten me to it), but.....


...... at last with this new calibration, we have found the elusive G spot .....
:p :p :p :D

Hymee,

Awesome info mate. It looks like it is going to be worth the effort to get this latest flash installed. .25 of a second is a significant difference.

Steve

Hymee, looks like the cheapest 8kw available for the 8! At least on a Hymee catback equipped vehicle....:)

I think I am going to get lynched by all those people who paid good money for a fuel controller, and all those who have invested time and money in developing one! I still think they have a place though, as reported by my last little tid-bit.

It is harder to do back-to-back comparisons with a re-flash, because you cant switch from one to the other and re-check the figures like you can do with the piggy back.

The only problem I have with the figures is they are on different days, and I can't remember how much fuel was in the car on the earlier 6 runs. It was close to empty last night.

Cheers,
Hymee.

PS - Maybe I should have just plotted the worst v's the best and found anouther 2kW - Wow a total of 10!! ;)

Originally posted by Gomez
Hymee, looks like the cheapest 8kw available for the 8! At least on a Hymee catback equipped vehicle....:)

Yeah, I agree Gomez. I reckon it is the combination of the G flash & the Hymee catback ;)

i just called essendon mazda. the rx-8 service manager said that there was an update for the WDS for the ecu. he said that the ecu updates are checked each time the car is serviced. if there is a new version on the WDS, the acr is updated. i'll just bring the car in for the 10K service in a month or so and get the update then.

mike

Originally posted by Hymee


It is harder to do back-to-back comparisons with a re-flash, because you cant switch from one to the other and re-check the figures like you can do with the piggy back.




Great news... it does no harm as it is free to upgrade.

Taka

Thanks for the stats Hymee... very interesting.

Got 13.8L/100 on my last tank (5/6ths driven on G flash). I use BP Ultimate.

Mostly non-grandpa city driving with a redline or three thrown in for good measure. About 1/3 was highway driving probably averaging around 3600RPM.

First real test will be first full tank of city driving where I rarely get below 15L/100

has anyone got their car reflashed at oldmac mazda springwood

Hymee - fantastic data!

Rang John Newell Mazda and they are checking if they have the updated "G" calibration.

If anyone in Sydney knows of any dealer who has the "G" - please let me know.

Cheers,

Pappy.

Originally posted by kimba2
has anyone got their car reflashed at oldmac mazda springwood

kimba2

I purchased my car from oldmac springwood , however sorry to say that they seem to know jack shit about updates and they seldom bother to get back to me on any queries i may have .

Spoke to a neil in service who promised to get back to me 48 hours later i am still waiting .(shit service imo)

Goldcoast MAZDA has the calibration updates so i have booked in to get my updates on the WDS .

Small dealers dont seem to care were you get your car serviced oldmac has been a huge dissapointment for me .

Sales at mazda golcoast missed outon the sale of my car for being innitially rude to me but they have won me in the service department .

The only person that knows whats going on at springwood is Troy in spare parts the rest are totally uninformed .

cheers
michael

Greetings All,

Stupid question time - is the latest flash available suitable for the auto as well ? Ours is going in for the 10,000 service in 2 weeks so it would be good to know if it is suitable and if McGrath Sutherland knows anything about it ! I'm a bit clueless with these kinds of things and there seems to be a lot of misinformation at the dealer level - what a surprise...

for what it is worth no matter how we drive our auto it stays between 11.2 and 11.7 l/100km - and yes I know it can't go as hard as the manual before you all say it :-)

Regards
Jeffneil

Jeffneil,

It actually goes harder than the manual before it runs out of puff!

I suspect the actual calibration for the 4 port (i.e. auto) is different to the 6 port (i.e manual). I don't know what the exact version numbering regime is. It might indeed be a "G", but a G of a different series.

Our Auto friends could help start finding out by looking under the PCM cover and getting the number of the sticker under there. Something like N6J...........E. Or if you have a scan tool. Or if you just rock up the the WDS and get them to check.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Mate, I reckon it should be O.K for the auto....If it isn't, there may an equivalent "auto" flash on the same software release...

Regards, Gomez.

Guys, I'm on holidays (without my RX8 unfortunately :( ) on the Gold Coast at the moment. I got my ex (Mazda Dealer) to check with the rotary techs at her work, and for those that live around here, Southcoast Automotive (Tweed Heads) has the latest update. I'm not sure if this is the same place L&L was talking about. I'm not all that familiar with the area!

Cheers,

(Qld) Rotor Head ;)

NT ROTOR HEAD

I was talking about James frizzelly mazda at southport , hey if you want to see a bright yellow rx8 and see some of the coast contact me .0415 775 985.

cheers
michael

NT ROTORHEAD

South coast Automotive have got the latest upgrades on the ecu however they will charge you a premium for upgrading your car .

Ross the service guy was reosanably informative , but they take the view that any computer upgrade on your ecu does not neccesarally have to automatically put on your car unless you have a problem with it .

They also believe that you should be charged for the privilidge of getting the latest software .

I believe that MAZDA SHOULD AT LEAST NOTIFY THE EARLIE ADAPTEES OF THE RX8 AND GIVE THEM THE OPTION OF UPGRADING THE ECU , AND THE OPTION OF WHETHER THEY WANT IT .

I certainly will wait 12 to 24 months before and if i buy into another rotary as the early birds who buy the 1st release of any model truly get the short end of the deal .

NOT HAPPY JAN
cheers
michael

when i went for my service they looked at my VIN and then rang somebody and said "yeap we have another one" and then booked it in.

L+L,

I certainly agree with you on the availability of PCM updates for any car. If the manufacturer sees fit to make one in the first place then surely there must be an issue that needs resolving and all should be entitled to the 'fix'. If Mazda arent willing to invest a few dollars in contacting the owners of their product, I think at the very least they could put a 'Support' section on their web site similar to computer parts manufacturers, list their vehicles and have FAQ's, Updates, Recall info, and other issues for the interested owner to check on. It could be then up to the owner to take the vehicle in for the update. (Safety recalls excluded of course).

Another thing. I really disagree with the dealers giving people a hard time about updating. If an update is there then we should be able to go in and ask for it without having to give a reason. The fact that an update is available is reason enough if you ask me!

Anyway, I'll see how I go up in Darwin at Kerry's Mazda. As usual I think it will come down to how I 'go about asking for the update'. It seems you need to be on the good side of the service guys to get anywhere. :(

I am taking my car to the dealer tomorrow for upgrade flash to the ecu. My VIN is very close to Taka's (SEPT build) and I am not sure what code I currently have. I will keep you posted after tomorrows events.

Joe

Joe,

Good stuff - that will be interesting info.

NT Rotor Head - Lovely new sig I see there. For you efforts, you have been awarded the first ever "quadruple posts" award. Now - where is the admin option gone....

Cheers,
Hymee.

Originally posted by Lock & Load
NT ROTORHEAD
Ross the service guy was reosanably informative , but they take the view that any computer upgrade on your ecu does not neccesarally have to automatically put on your car unless you have a problem with it .

I believe that MAZDA SHOULD AT LEAST NOTIFY THE EARLIE ADAPTEES OF THE RX8 AND GIVE THEM THE OPTION OF UPGRADING THE ECU , AND THE OPTION OF WHETHER THEY WANT IT .

I certainly will wait 12 to 24 months before and if i buy into another rotary as the early birds who buy the 1st release of any model truly get the short end of the deal .

NOT HAPPY JAN
cheers
michael

think it's funny everyone making such a fuss over a reflash. I haven't had one done but I might have the latest as I tried the scratch thing and there was no needle swing? I figured the reset couldn't hurt as eveyone I have let drive the car has stalled it heaps :(

anyway The way I look at it, the car is running fine, no idle problems, no acceleration probs. none. so why do I need a flash? the change will be something I'm not feeling and probably wont feel so why bother untill the next service. if it was a problem mazda would be calling everyone that needed it. if you don't need it right away why should mazda bother you with something that can wait till next service?

then there is the situation where people are demanding the latest flash. what makes you so sure you should use it on your car? because it it the latest and suposedly greatest? there are lots of situations in the software world where people run the older drivers for better performance. you could be getting better fuel economy at the expense of power that the butt dyno dosn't notice.

untill a service guy plugs his data gathering thing-a-me-ging into the car and it flags a need to change the flash I will not get the flash done.

The bottom line --- no one bloody knows.
No conclusive evidance.
No satistical significant.

No proof!
Or someone tells me I am wrong.

There is a feel good factor of getting a latest flash. At least Hymee and L&L are happy to leap from the "D"s

p.s. I have a "F" but I never be happier :D ~~~~

Taka - I never had a "D".

I don't claim to have provided the "proof", but I published as good as I could measure.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Originally posted by takahashi
The bottom line --- no one bloody knows.
No conclusive evidance.
No satistical significant.

No proof!
Or someone tells me I am wrong.

There is a feel good factor of getting a latest flash. At least Hymee and L&L are happy to leap from the "D"s

p.s. I have a "F" but I never be happier :D ~~~~


Taka, I disagree.

The data Hymee has produced enables one to make a conclusion about the likely value of the G flash to other 8s, at least of the same or earlier VINs and with earlier calibrations.

And Hymee's data is statistically significant. OK, sure for complete accuracy we need a standard sample of cars, but in terms of the testing Hymee did on his car previously and with the re-flash, the methodology is as sound as we are going to get.

As to whether one should or one shouldn't, we are now in the realm of cars where tuning is dominated by software code. That code can contain bugs :eek: or, as is often the case, be less than optimal either in terms of its inherent efficiency, or as it relates to data feedback on driving conditions, environment, fuel and other inputs. "Good" software engineers will always try to improve their code as they obtain greater knowledge about all these factors. For these reasons, I expect we will see many more such revisions, each one of which should 'improve' the tune and driveability. Subject, of course, to the law of diminishing returns.

Short answer: you have bought another computer which relies on software; that software will be updated from time to time for sound reasons, to the benefit of owners. You should therefore keep your software up to date if you want to obtain the best from the car. The problem is that the automotive industry itself hasn't come to grips with this issue, how to distribute updates, and also how to communicate with owners about them.

Hmm, do I sense a consultancy opportunity?? :p

Good post Timbo.

I'm think the "other" thread has served it's life, and I will probably close it down soon. Just need to let my finger cool off :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

I think Taka is confusing reproducibility with repeatability. Obviously, I'd be happier if the work had have been done immediately before and after re-flash, but at least you have an experienced operator using the same piece of equipment! It looks like the re-flash has made measurable improvement.

Hymee, I've got my car coming up for service in a few weeks at GP Mazda Aspley. Who's the tech to talk to about the re-flash? Did you have to pay extra for it?

Labrat,

I paid no money that visit. But I am a repeate customer for new cars and service, so I suppose one could argue that I pay for it along the way somewhere (Like when the invoice has "1.5 Workshop Consumables" on it :) .

The RX-8 specialist tech's name is Robbie. But I always approach the service manager first (Joseph). I went in before the boys offically "clocked on" so effectively robbie did it for me in his own time. But he did tell me he always checks the RX-8's when they get serviced. So I think is would be OK just to get it noted on the job sheet if you book it in via the "front desk".

At my last service one the persons behind the front desk told me my car had been filled with Castrol Synthetic oil. When I checked with the workshop foreman, he gave me the bottle of Mazda Rotary Oil they used to fill my car, and told me to keep the remainder for top ups.

Cheers,
Hymee.

I had my new flash put in today. I was told that there should be changes in fuel efficency and perfomance.

If there is any change in perfomance then it is only very slight as I did not see any immediate change.

The way the fuel prices are at the moment I will appreciate any fuel economy measures.

So overall, making a 20 minute pitstop on the way to work for a free update is worthwhile.

skc

I wonder whether the reflashed ECU has to 're-learn' driving styles and conditions after each update. Seems logical to me that it does, so the effects may not be immediate.

Did they tell you which flash you were and which one are you now?

Interesting... I must call up for my 10K service soon

Unfortunately I did not find out what flash I had on originally. I was busy on the phone with a client while the update was taking place. I went to the same dealer as Hymee. Therefore they would have updated with the new G ? flash.

skc

Hymee,
Would you be able to gragh your AFR,s of your original E and new G flash so that we can visualise the changes.
I wonder whether by going leaner in the sub 4000rpm range whether they have slightly retarded timing in that range also to prevent any possibility of detonation ;ike they seem to have done with the latest American M flash?

Regards
Rexi

Ok - got the "G" flash today from John Newell Mazda (no charge - under warranty). Confirmed with the brake & oil pressure sweep.

So in a matter of weeks I've gone from "D" to "E" to "G".

The most dramatic change was from "D" to "E" - the car's character became even smoother, especially during shift changes in the manual.

Initial impressions with the "G" are that it definitely appears to start quicker, on the first crank - Timbo mentioned this also. There appears to be better performance when starting off and from there it is very linear. The impression I get is that there is less rolling resistance now in the car and hence it feels heaps more responsive - anyway the car is even more enjoyable now. One thing I know for sure, the "D" version must have been full of compromises.

Pappy.

Pappy - sounds like a similar experience to mine.

As Hymee has said (probably on this thread) we'll probably see a diminishing amount of improvement in each new flash because the room for improvement will reduce each time improvements are made.

Originally posted by sco
Pappy - sounds like a similar experience to mine.

As Hymee has said (probably on this thread) we'll probably see a diminishing amount of improvement in each new flash because the room for improvement will reduce each time improvements are made.

Sco - just took the 8 for a drive this evening - I'm impressed that the software upgrades have made such a difference. I don't know if guys with "F" will realise any difference, but anyone on "D" will find it an amazing change.

Pappy.

Originally posted by Pappy
I'm impressed that the software upgrades have made such a difference. I don't know if guys with "F" will realise any difference, but anyone on "D" will find it an amazing change.

Pappy.

Hymee, you haven't had a "F" car on the dyno yet, have you??
Or driven an "F" flash back to back with a D/E??
Has anyone?

Gomez.

No I haven't, and I have never had an "F" to test. My car went from E to G.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Originally posted by Hymee
No I haven't, and I have never had an "F" to test. My car went from E to G.

Cheers,
Hymee.


Hymee

Your car being an E would account for the faster times you posted when we did the AFR TESTS ON OUR CARS AS AT THAT TIME MY CAR WAS ONLY THE D FLASH ( mystery solved ).

cheers
michael

Agree L&L....

the question is G is better than E ... maybe slightly. No one knows the different b/n F and G yet?

Taka

Just had the "G" installed. "Gee" (Sorry I just had to!) improvements are now in very small increments.

Initial impressions are that it is smoother throughout the rev range, and appears to be a little gruntier down low! The way I drive, I won't notice the rumoured mileage increase

Originally posted by Lock & Load
Hymee

Your car being an E would account for the faster times you posted when we did the AFR TESTS ON OUR CARS AS AT THAT TIME MY CAR WAS ONLY THE D FLASH ( mystery solved ).

cheers
michael

Hmmm - I thought we knew that fact way back when we did the testing, or shortly thereafter? We all have known your car was "D" and mine was "E" for friggin ages. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is no mystery.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Well after spending 20 mins writing up my initial reply, I lost it all, so to summarise since upgrade to G code yesterday:

Slight increse in torque at lower rev range (Hymees exhaust is quieter on part throttle)

A more linear response from throttle movement as oppossed to a "Burst" effect previously.

Effortless take offs now with decreased throttle depression.

To soon to comment on any fuel cost savings.

John (Service Manager) Rockdale Mazda (SYDNEY) is happy to perform upgrade for you (no charge as upgrade is covered under warranty).

Joe

L&L, seems you got ripped off!

Originally posted by AMG
L&L, seems you got ripped off!

....again. But then, if you do roar.....!

And the meek shall inherit the earth.

guys you have it all wrong Mazda Australia is a great company and they will do anything to keep the customer happy and dosent have to telll you guys anything you dont need to know if the car is running fine weel there aint no prblem with it all these reflashes mean very minor changes changes that you would never feel a lot of you guys think you know it all im sorry you guys dont For the guys who do know what they are talking about well good for them .

groover, your profile says "Service Manager"... wouldn't happen to be at a Mazda dealer would it?

If so, can you tell us the differences between the flashes?

you wouldn't happen to work at Cardiff


:D :D :p :p

LOL!

my wife called to book the rx-8 in for the ECU upgrade. the service guy at essendon mazda was quite rude to her asking if she knew if the upgrade was compatible with the rx-8. then told her that if there would be a cost to upgrade the ECU unless it was done at a regular servicing interval. it was at essendon mazda.

so where else in melbourne can rx-8 owners get the upgrade without having to get the car serviced as well?

not happy at all...

mike

<hint>Wasn't your engine flooding and getting bad economy? has a flat spot mid-range?</hint>

thanks hymee!
i did notice those exact symptoms. i must tell them at the dealership about it. they must have something to fix the problem.

thanks

mike

Mike,

I'm sure they can look into it under warranty. Perhaps they will plug it into the WDS to check if there is any updates available...

I'm happy to take only 50% of what she was gunna charge you :p Hehehehe.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Took my car in to get updated G upgrade , together with a note with all the symptons previously disscused {IN ABOVE THREADS .}

Service manager procedded to tell me that if he upgraded the ecu for free everytime a customer requested it hed go broke .

(obviously hasnt heard of the record profits made by mazda )


I procedded to tell him that if he was going to charge then forget about it and i would go to another dealer who would be more understanding , i told him i was not prepared to wait for another 10,000km before getting my ecu upgraded at my 30,000km service .

I also reminded him that my next car purchase may not be from his dealership .

Anyhow he gave in and Daniel re flashed my ecu and took my car for a test drive , hes a nice bloke who understands the rx8 enthusiast .

My impressions are that the G flash is a definite improvement (ZING ZING instead of a possible ZOOM )car is far more responsive idles better and seems to get there smoother .

Considering all the profit MAZDA has made youd think a valued customer would not have to put up a song and dance in order to get the latest reflash for his ride .

BE WISE
MICHAEL

L&L,

Good to hear you a free flash.

Don't forget Mazda made the profit, not the dealers. But I guess there is some payback, as the dealers are the ones who ultimately make the sale, and present as the public face of the company.

Cheers,
Hymee.

A bit more info regarding the "M" flash has surfaced on the TSB Link (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/index.html) regarding engine knocking at high rpm or high altitude.
The "M" flash is the current flash (released Mid Apr 04) in the U.S. It was released at around the same time as the "G" flash here (Sco first "G" here on 8 May 04). It would not be drawing too long a bow to assume that the "G" flash would also have a positive effect with regards to preventing knocking.

Mazda have stated in the TSB that the knocking is a result of loss of compression due to a lack of oil being supplied from the oil metering pump. As this pump is controlled by the PCM, the lack of oil may be due to a defect in the "L" flash software (which we didn't have here).

Without wanting to seem too alarmist, if you have been hearing strange rattling/pinging/knocking sounds at above 6000rpm, it may be wise to book in for a reflash to "G".

That said, we have had no reports from Oz members about knocking.....but flooding was off the radar a few weeks back!
Our fuel is also better here, that helps to reduce the possibility of knocking. It would be real handy to find out from an official source what the "G" flash was designed to fix......

Anyway...forewarned is forearmed.

Gomez.

I don't hear knocking what so ever. However, you really need a stethoscope for this hehe :D

I don't think I had the "G" the last time. I doubt that I need it as I seldom had a start >3 sec after ignition and no knocking what so ever.

You won't need a stethoscope.....one guy here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27711&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) said it sounded like a can of rocks being dragged from the bumper!

GTP says when they are pinging / knocking they really "talk to you", so it must be obvious.

I know what knocking is ... it tends to do in Type R a lot over 6000rpm... I need to use BP Ultimate and additive to get rid of it. Optimax sucks in that way. Therefore, it is important for B18C in the Integra to get high Octane oil.

I never found this knocking in rotaries. Never heard it before and the engine work smooth as hell.

Motor mag said my Integra engine was smooth. Then RX-8 is silky smooth!!! :D

Hi guys, I am a first time poster but have been following this forum for a while. I recently picked up my rx8 a few weeks ago and its a May 04. So far no problems and drives like a dream.

happly new owner

zoomblack, welcome to the club.

Start a new thread introducing yourself, that'll get everyones attention to our new member.