Well I'm seriously considering doing a Zex nitrous kit on my 8. I spoke with a tech at Zex and he said a 55 shot would be fine. Any more than that and I'd have problems. I run a trim shop and have access to good pricing on the Zex kit and purge kit. My techs here at work really want to see me do it, but I don't feel like blowing a motor.

I'd like to add some much needed HP to this car and if nitrous is done right, it's the cheapest way to do it. I just had a guy with a brand new Evo stop in to my shop a little bit ago (he wanted a turbo timer installed). Looking at that car just made me want to make my 8 faster.

I didn't buy the 8 to race, and I'm not all about going fast, but for some reason, I'm craving more HP for my 8. Please post any experiences or opinions you might have regarding nitrous on the 8.

Not to highjack your thread but why not just get the CZ Stage 1 piggyback ECU? You get 25 whp, never needs refilling and is easily removable if you go to the dealer? For everyday driving NO2 isn't very parctical and will kill your warranty.

Originally posted by Velocity-8
Not to highjack your thread but why not just get the CZ Stage 1 piggyback ECU? You get 25 whp, never needs refilling and is easily removable if you go to the dealer? For everyday driving NO2 isn't very parctical and will kill your warranty.

I already have the Stage 1.

I assume that the ZEX tech told you to use thier wet kit??

I've also been doing alot of research into nitrous for my 8. There's a thread somewhere where Rotarygod gives brief guidelines for a good nitrous setup.

I've looked at the NX kits.. and figure it would cost about $1500 for a quality setup with the appropriate saftey devices.. This assumes I would do it myself or pay extra for professional installaion.

Originally posted by mdw33333
Well I'm seriously considering doing a Zex nitrous kit on my 8. I spoke with a tech at Zex and he said a 55 shot would be fine. Any more than that and I'd have problems. I run a trim shop and have access to good pricing on the Zex kit and purge kit. My techs here at work really want to see me do it, but I don't feel like blowing a motor.

I'd like to add some much needed HP to this car and if nitrous is done right, it's the cheapest way to do it. I just had a guy with a brand new Evo stop in to my shop a little bit ago (he wanted a turbo timer installed). Looking at that car just made me want to make my 8 faster.

I didn't buy the 8 to race, and I'm not all about going fast, but for some reason, I'm craving more HP for my 8. Please post any experiences or opinions you might have regarding nitrous on the 8.

this is pretty much speculation but i believe i remeber someone talking about a couple of people having engine problems after squeezing.

cz stage I + a 50 shot.....that alot of power. be careful.

please site thread of someone having problems squeezing>?! cause as far as I know there isn't anyone on this forum who has tried- and that is a lot of 8 owners- but I could be wrong as well

There's a thread where someone mentioned that (a) tuner shop(s) in Miami had tried nitrous and said there may be problems with some intake ports getting more nitrous than others..

Other than that, I don't remember seeing any problems.

Yeah, Zex told me to use their wet kit. It's part #82023. They don't have cooler plugs for the 8, so I'd have to find them elsewhere. I'm also gonna do the purge kit and bottle warmer.

I'm going to aim the purge outlets to fire out the side vents behind the front wheels.

I just don't see how a 55 shot could really be a problem for this motor. If anyone thinks otherwise, let me know. Rotarygod, please feel free to "chime in." I'd like to hear your opinion.

I just saw a show on the Speed Channel that juiced up an 8. It cited where they placed the jets and quoted something like 209 hp and 203tq at the wheels, and this was on a stocker. The show was pretty rough around the edges as it is new, but maybe someone could find some information on it? I tried with no success.

The Nitrous thread everyone's talking about is here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16277). And if you DO decide to do NoS, as far as I know you'll be the first who can talk about it in detail here. PLEASE DO! :D

Originally posted by mdw33333
Rotarygod, please feel free to "chime in." I'd like to hear your opinion.

OK I will.

There are many people that swear by the ZEX kit but I personally wouldn't use it. This is just an opinion though so don't chastise me for it. I would wait for a Venom kit to arrive if you insist on a kit. Otherwise I'd spend the money and custom fab up a proper system. Here's what I would consider needs to be done to have a proper system:

You'll need a new fuel system. This includes a fuel pump and regulator. The stock fuel system is a nonreturn system where the ECU varies fuel pressure through the fuel pump itself. You would also need a return line back to the fuel tank as well as modified fuel rails to accomodate this line.

Since the ECU controls the fuel system, you'll get a CEL and the car won't run right. you also can't control the tuning of the system anyways so now you need a new aftermarket programmable ECU. Motec makes one. You need one that can control a drive by wire setup. Only Motec can do it at this time. Of course any of these mods kill your warranty so just keep that in mind.

I would also use a progressive nitrous controller that can vary the amount of nitrous over a set amount of time. This would ease the instant kick that a large shot would give and spread it out over a couple of seconds. this would be easier on the seals and the transmission. Holley and Jacobs both make decent boxes. The nicest progressive controller out there is called a F.R.E.D. (That's my name BTW but no relation!). It is from Nitrous wharehouse. You'll have to search to find this one. The companies owner died a year ago from pneumonia so they may be rare. He also lived in my subdivision. Weird coincidences with this one.

As you can see the only truly reliable way to do it at this time is to redo everything. That is just as expensive as forced induction. Someday there may be a nice kit but it hasn't arrived yet. Sit tight and wait a little longer. I'm sure something will come along.

Here's a little bit of side info about the Venom system in regards to tuning. It also applies to any other plug and play system. On my friend Jim's Z28, he installed the Venom system. The expensive one, not their cheap POS. With it installed as recommended by Venom, his car ran lean. We examined the spark plugs and they were pink. This is a lean indication. We don't every want that, especially on a rotary. The nitrous nozzle was moved to in front of the MAF. The MAF sensed cold air which it interprets as denser and therefore needing more fuel. Lean problem was gone and the car was much faster with the same shot. The moral is that just because it is set up according to manufacturers specs doesn't mean you can't still blow it up. They won't pay for your new engine either. The reason I don't like ZEX is because the few people that I have known with them have ALL had some sort of problem. Even my friend Jim with his Venom system could have potentially had disastrous results had the car stayed hooked up according to the manual.

If you want to go the nitrous route then you should be prepard to spend just as much money as forced induction for the same power gain. If someone offered a turbo kit for under $1000 and claimed that everything would work perfectly would you believe them? Probably not and even only a 55 hp boost from this kit would probably still make you suspicious. Do it properly or do it again.

That's my take on this subject.

rotarygod....i love how to sum up everything so nicely. long gone are the days of searching page after page of thread to find some quality info. keep up the nice work man, im sure alot of other peeps on the board appreciate your input just as much as me :)

Originally posted by rotarygod
OK I will.

There are many people that swear by the ZEX kit but I personally wouldn't use it. This is just an opinion though so don't chastise me for it. I would wait for a Venom kit to arrive if you insist on a kit. Otherwise I'd spend the money and custom fab up a proper system. Here's what I would consider needs to be done to have a proper system:

You'll need a new fuel system. This includes a fuel pump and regulator. The stock fuel system is a nonreturn system where the ECU varies fuel pressure through the fuel pump itself. You would also need a return line back to the fuel tank as well as modified fuel rails to accomodate this line.

Since the ECU controls the fuel system, you'll get a CEL and the car won't run right. you also can't control the tuning of the system anyways so now you need a new aftermarket programmable ECU. Motec makes one. You need one that can control a drive by wire setup. Only Motec can do it at this time. Of course any of these mods kill your warranty so just keep that in mind.

I would also use a progressive nitrous controller that can vary the amount of nitrous over a set amount of time. This would ease the instant kick that a large shot would give and spread it out over a couple of seconds. this would be easier on the seals and the transmission. Holley and Jacobs both make decent boxes. The nicest progressive controller out there is called a F.R.E.D. (That's my name BTW but no relation!). It is from Nitrous wharehouse. You'll have to search to find this one. The companies owner died a year ago from pneumonia so they may be rare. He also lived in my subdivision. Weird coincidences with this one.

As you can see the only truly reliable way to do it at this time is to redo everything. That is just as expensive as forced induction. Someday there may be a nice kit but it hasn't arrived yet. Sit tight and wait a little longer. I'm sure something will come along.

Here's a little bit of side info about the Venom system in regards to tuning. It also applies to any other plug and play system. On my friend Jim's Z28, he installed the Venom system. The expensive one, not their cheap POS. With it installed as recommended by Venom, his car ran lean. We examined the spark plugs and they were pink. This is a lean indication. We don't every want that, especially on a rotary. The nitrous nozzle was moved to in front of the MAF. The MAF sensed cold air which it interprets as denser and therefore needing more fuel. Lean problem was gone and the car was much faster with the same shot. The moral is that just because it is set up according to manufacturers specs doesn't mean you can't still blow it up. They won't pay for your new engine either. The reason I don't like ZEX is because the few people that I have known with them have ALL had some sort of problem. Even my friend Jim with his Venom system could have potentially had disastrous results had the car stayed hooked up according to the manual.

If you want to go the nitrous route then you should be prepard to spend just as much money as forced induction for the same power gain. If someone offered a turbo kit for under $1000 and claimed that everything would work perfectly would you believe them? Probably not and even only a 55 hp boost from this kit would probably still make you suspicious. Do it properly or do it again.

That's my take on this subject.

Great info rotarygod, it's always appreciated. Now I could be wrong, as I often am, but I thought the Zex kit sensed when the car was running lean and cut nitrous accordingly. At least that's what they're telling me.

My plan is to mount the nozzle on the underside of the intake tube, just underneath the MAF sensor. It fires at an angle which I will point rearward. I haven't looked to closly at the motor in general, but the fuel rail appears to be tough to see. I would like to know if there is a port on it to tie into for fuel. If anyone knows please feel free to say. I really don't want to take all that shit on top of the motor off, just to find there is no port. Any help would be great!

The two fuel rails are are buried under the Intake... I would guess that there is no Schrader test valve although I have not taken it apart to find out. There are some nice pics of the fuel rails here.. http://www.yawpower.com/renespic.html


If not, you can possible tap into the fuel line before the fuel rail and use a splitter..

You'd probably want to mount the nozzle a little behind the MAF sensor, in the accordian tube section.. You can special order that piece for about $200 incase you dont want to cut the stock piece..

From what I understand of ZEX is that the system monitors bottle pressure, and adjusts the amount of spray depending on bottle pressure.. It does not (to my understanding) use actual sensors to monitor the exhaust for lean conditions.. They do, however use the TPS to determine WOT instead of a microswitch.

You'd probably want a fuel pressure switch also, incase your fuel pump malfuctions, so you dont run too lean..

I agree with Rotarygod's statement about using the progressive controller.. The newer NX model allows you to program it with a Palm Pilot and seems safer... If you dont use a progressive controller, I would also get an RPM window switch.. just in case..

If you use a progressive controller, you should test your solenoids regularly, and you may need to rebuild them.. not sure if this is possible with ZEX since they are all in the little box..

Also, The 8 comes with cold(ish) plugs already.. You may not need to run colder with only a 50 shot..

You also didnt mention timing.. You may not need to retard timing for a 50 shot.. but many people reccomend 1 degree of retard for every 50hp increase..

I would do an NX solution... The one I was looking at is about $1500 or $2k with a progressive controller.


Take everything I say with a grain of salt.. I've only done research. I have never installed or operated nitrous, nor am I a car mechanic..

Incidentally, I've decided against nitrous for now..

Well, I talked to NX and they said there "is" a port on the fuel rail. That's a good thing. The guy at NX said I could do their system and run up to a 75 shot without upgrading the fule pump or retarding the timing. They said they've already done a few 8's and everything was fine with them so far.

this is good news- good news!

I'm debating on going with a programmable controller. NX told me in wasn't essential but it might be a good idea. Their controller is pretty sweet, it has programmable rpm ranges and alot of other stuff, but it expensive as hell.

I just want to keep this simple, but not at the expense of my motor. So, if something was essential I would use it. I'm pretty "torn," and I'm not sure whether to go with the ZEX or the NX kit. I can get the ZEX cheaper, but NX seems to have better tech support so far. Both companies have designed their systems to be pretty "dummy proof." I am no expert by any means, but I just have a hard time believing a 55 shot would do any harm on this motor considering how rich it runs. Even with the Stage 1 leaning it out some I still think it runs rich. The major fear with doing Nitrous is having the fuel lean out, isn't it?

I did discuss this with Maurice and he said I should be fine with the 55 shot. He did mention the Stage 2 and Nitrous wouldn't be a good combo though.

Here's what the fuel rails look like:

Nice pic, rotarygod, I appreciate it. I'm on the edge of maikg the decision to do this, I've been interet browsing and making calls all day, getting opinions. Harold at Acosta racing kinda laughed when I told him I was thinking of doing nitrous. I asked him why and he replied: "cuz it will break." He wouldn't elaborate, but I didn't get a good feeling from the way he said it. He did go on to tell me about the work they were doing (port work).

He said they'd been taking in 8's from all over and doing the internals on them. They'll come and pick up your 8 and deliver it back to you when they're done. They have it for about 4 weeks and it runs you about 5 grand. He wouldn't discuss specifics, but he said he have me at 300 whp when they were done, naturally aspirated, no forced induction. They are working on a turbo though and it'll be ready soon.

I don't have that kinda dough to throw around at the moment, so in the mean time, I'm still deciding on the nitrous. It's relatively simple and relatively cheap. The more info I get the better off I'll be. It's a toss up at this point. I've had reputable people tell me it's OK, and other reputable people tell me it's not. Decisions, decisions...

Rotarygod,

In that picture.. Is there a port to tie into to feed fuel for the nitroous fuel pump? I don't see one, but maybe I'm missing it?

You would just tee off from the rubber line before the rail.

that's what I thought.. thanks

Originally posted by rotarygod
You would just tee off from the rubber line before the rail.

Tapping that hose will be easy. It's just getting to it that sucks.

Yeah, looks like you'd have to take apart the upper intake. If you decide to do this, please post pics, I'd be very interested in seeing final results after having done some resarch..

Also, where did you intend to mount the bottle? I have a sub box (2 10's ) in the trunk, and wanted to still have enough space for 2 golf bags.. So I was looking into storing 1 or possibly 2 , 5 lb bottles in the bottom part of the trunk under a cover.. Looks like it might BARELY fit.

Originally posted by mdw33333
Tapping that hose will be easy. It's just getting to it that sucks.

Originally posted by guy321
Yeah, looks like you'd have to take apart the upper intake. If you decide to do this, please post pics, I'd be very interested in seeing final results after having done some resarch..

Also, where did you intend to mount the bottle? I have a sub box (2 10's ) in the trunk, and wanted to still have enough space for 2 golf bags.. So I was looking into storing 1 or possibly 2 , 5 lb bottles in the bottom part of the trunk under a cover.. Looks like it might BARELY fit.

Yeah, I'm going with a single 10 lb. bottle in the trunk. I don't use the trunk much so I'm not too worried about space.

Just curious, how much were you looking to spend?

Well, because I work for a mod shop, my pricing is pretty good. I can buy the ZEX sytem with remote bottle opener, bottle warmer, and purge kit for $868. The NX system is considerably more expensive. The same system would run me $1156. NX makes the GENX-2 kit which is a nice addition to their system and it would run me $374. The GENX-2 is palm computer programmable, and that's cool, but I don't have a palm PC. I've attemped to contact Venom to see if they have a VCN-2000 system for the 8, but haven't been able to talk to anyone there yet. Assuming they had a system for the 8, it would run me about $1400.

It would be nice if Venom had one because itties in to the O2 sensor to moniter air/fuel and it cuts nitrous if you're running too lean. The Zex and the NX (as far as I know) don't have that option at this point. Still researching...

I don't think Venom has a kit yet.
Thier kit is sweet, it taps into the O2 sensors and tells you if your car is running lean..

I should finish reading the entire post before i respond, huh ;)

Thanks for the leads and info, everyone. I am forging ahead fearlessly now that my friends here have set us all straight. I was going to use the Zex but it sounds like the NX guy had more details. Since my engine will be undergoing other mods at the same time, I might just tap into the fuel rail while I am at it and do the window switch idea. For some reason, I am not too concerned with destroying my engine. I'll just look at it as an opportunity to upgrade the internals for even more power. Thanks again for the info.

Charles

Great!!

If you wouldn't mind, please take pictures!?

How big of a shot do you think you'll try out? Just wondering, since you arent really concerned about destruction.. Don't forget to start small and increase gradually.. AFTER checking your plugs for a lean condition.. If you're going to do higher shots, you should probably monitor the exhauhst gases..

What other internals upgrades are you looking at?

OK, after doing some thinking, I'm considering just pulling out my Stage 1, and doing a bottle. I'll explain why. My initial assessment of the Stage 1 was good, but after driving the car more the last couple of weeks (better weather), I've decided that I don't like the way the car runs with it. I made some runs and opened it up a few times. I've not only experienced the 4500 rpm dip (which kinda sucks), but I've experienced a "hesitiations" in the higher rpm range when in 3rd or 4th gears. These hestitations almost feel like the car is just "stuck" (for lack of better terms). I literally have to hold the throttle down and just kinda wait for it to "go" again.

I'm not all that well versed when it comes to mods such as the Stage 1, but something just doesn't feel right with it. The car almost seems slower to me a lower rpm ranges (and no, it's not because it's faster at higher ranges). I spoke to CZ just days ago, and expressed my "conent" with the unit, but I'm really a bit concerned and not quite pleased with the car's performance after further runs with it since that conversation.

I'm aware of the ECU reflash "situation" and my car hasn't had it, so that's not the issue. One of my main reservations about doing nitrous, was the fact that I was running the Stage 1, and I was afraid of "leaning out" and having the motor take a dump. Like I said, I may pull the Stage 1, and possibly petition CZ to let me return it. And then hopefully do a NX kit and see better results. I don't need the "extra" hp for most of my daily driving, so the nitrous kit makes sense for me. I get the extra hp only when it's needed and called upon.

I'd like to state that this isn't a "knock" on the Stage 1. I just don't think it fits into the plan I have for this car. The plan I have really isn't a complicated one, I'll just run pretty much "stock" unless I hit the 55 shot when I need to, which will probably be very little.

My apologies for having been busy the past week. I have been looking around for a bunch of different things necessary to be ready for Rotary Revolution. I am not sure how far along my mods will be. I can tell you that I will be using either a 50 or 75 h.p. N2O set-up. It depends on how much boost I am able to add to the stock engine. According to my conservative calculations, each 5 lbs. of boost is good for 75+/- h.p. I haven't decided whether I want to use boost, nitrous, or a combination of the two. I have also decided to design for 300 rwhp, as a start, using a number of different approaches. If all goes well I shall have some pretty cool titanium and carbon fiber parts installed. I have a number of friends whose scrap material can be used to design my own parts. I will have either 5 lbs. with a 75 kit, or 7.5 lbs. with a 50. I am not too interested in dressing up the body because anyone can do that at their leisure. I want to see what the stock engine can handle. The only reason I am not more forthcoming regarding my ideas is because I care not to hear from the naysayers around here. Those who say certain things cannot be done end up getting nothing done. I wish to forge ahead.

Thanks,
Charles

Well if you are one of the few who can afford to blow their engine out of warranty and not care... you'll not hear any naysaying from me. Once that (blowing your engine) isn't a concern to you, I'm all for trying whatever you will and sharing the results of your experiment with the rest of us.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Here's the thing; I followed another conversation between Chuck Huang and numerous others on this site. It seems that there is an expectation of altruism and compelled "sharing" by the majority who post here. My personal position is more along the lines of that which Chuck has. If I am going to test the limits of the Renesis, I am going to find a way to recoup my losses in one, or more, ways. If that makes me "selfish", so be it. Once I get my 8 to the levels I have in mind I will first set my sights on the local musclecar drivers. Being from Detroit, I have plenty of opportunity to score some wins for the import tuning community. Many years ago I used to hustle the streets as portrayed in "The Fast and the Furious". Although many people consider that movie a farce, I can tell you that is exactly how the game was run back in the '80s in Detroit. Lots of money changed hands around here and I was one of the recipients. My point is this: I will share stories regarding the general information as to the stress limits of the Renesis. How I found that out and how I acheived certain horsepower levels will be up to my own discretion. I am sorry if that makes me a jerk but I am looking for a career change and the RX-8 seems a great opportunity to do just that. If all goes well, perhaps I can offer the RX-8 community the parts necessary to go faster, handle better, and get better traction. That way, I can come under the same scrutiny of Rotary Extreme and every other maverick around here. Of course, all this is said with a smile and positive disposition.

Sincerely,
Charles

Originally posted by mdw33333
OK, after doing some thinking, I'm considering just pulling out my Stage 1, and doing a bottle. I'll explain why. My initial assessment of the Stage 1 was good, but after driving the car more the last couple of weeks (better weather), I've decided that I don't like the way the car runs with it. I made some runs and opened it up a few times. I've not only experienced the 4500 rpm dip (which kinda sucks), but I've experienced a "hesitiations" in the higher rpm range when in 3rd or 4th gears. These hestitations almost feel like the car is just "stuck" (for lack of better terms). I literally have to hold the throttle down and just kinda wait for it to "go" again... Before you toss that Stage 1, you might want to get the latest release, aka "Stage 1.1" from CanZoomer. Check out his forum for the results on it... it looks extremely promising. Plus, you've already spent the money on it, so why not?
Originally posted by Charles R. Hill
Here's the thing; I followed another conversation between Chuck Huang and numerous others on this site. It seems that there is an expectation of altruism and compelled "sharing" by the majority who post here. My personal position is more along the lines of that which Chuck has. If I am going to test the limits of the Renesis, I am going to find a way to recoup my losses in one, or more, ways. If that makes me "selfish", so be it. Once I get my 8 to the levels I have in mind I will first set my sights on the local musclecar drivers. Being from Detroit, I have plenty of opportunity to score some wins for the import tuning community. Many years ago I used to hustle the streets as portrayed in "The Fast and the Furious". Although many people consider that movie a farce, I can tell you that is exactly how the game was run back in the '80s in Detroit. Lots of money changed hands around here and I was one of the recipients. My point is this: I will share stories regarding the general information as to the stress limits of the Renesis. How I found that out and how I acheived certain horsepower levels will be up to my own discretion. I am sorry if that makes me a jerk but I am looking for a career change and the RX-8 seems a great opportunity to do just that. If all goes well, perhaps I can offer the RX-8 community the parts necessary to go faster, handle better, and get better traction. That way, I can come under the same scrutiny of Rotary Extreme and every other maverick around here. Of course, all this is said with a smile and positive disposition.

Sincerely,
Charles I, for one, an very interested in what your experimentation results in Charles. I also like your targeted 300 RWHP number. Please keep us posted. :D

I was working on my custom speaker box for Mr. Wigggles RX-8 last week and noticed something that no one else has mentioned on these cars. It may make some things interesting to those who plan to use nitrous but not use a nitrous kit such as the Zex or a Venom system. Due to the location of the driveshaft in relation to the gas tank, the tank is very high in the center. The tank goes down around either side of the driveshaft. There is no connector below the driveshaft so that fuel may move between each side. The top area of the tank above the driveshaft is still common so it is only a single tank. As a result of this shape there are 2 fuel pumps. One on each side of the hump. It is really interesting since the access to each pump is under each respective rear seat. Anyone wanting to ever upgrade the fuel system someday to a complete standalone system with a new fuel system will have some work ahead of them. Just thought some of you might want to know this.

I'm sending back my Stage 1 today for the 1.1 upgrade. I'll see how it goes afterwords. But with the timing adjustments, I surely can't run the Stage 1.1 simultaneously with nitrous.

You could potentially buy the programming cable, software, and monitoring sensors to adjust the fuel/timing yourself with 1.1.

Originally posted by mdw33333
I'm sending back my Stage 1 today for the 1.1 upgrade. I'll see how it goes afterwords. But with the timing adjustments, I surely can't run the Stage 1.1 simultaneously with nitrous.

The 300 rwhp number is not far from reality. I suppose one could come pretty close with the right intake, exhaust, nitrous, and ECU systems. I don't tend to believe the Renesis is as fragile as some others might. Ya know, my last post made me sound like a prick. I must apologize for that. I was a little uptight about the "bashing" Rotary Extreme and Chuck were taking regarding their intake kit. It bothers me a bit when people scrutinize and criticize the actions of others on one hand and, yet, expect help, tips, and tricks on the other. Of course, I will be reporting which mods work on my 8 but some of the other, more complex, ideas will be patented and for sale.

Charles

Any undates?? mdw33333