I am looking at getting the Borla Catback, I like it because I have used Borla before and also have friends who sware by them. But, I have read that the B&B is good also, but at a $700 price compaired to the Borla $590. Which is better performance wise with the price aspect in mind.
I plan to get my own custom midpie without a resonator and have the Borla or a better exhaust to equal 20 to 21 bhp, hopefully. I am trying to achieve one loud mofo, because my buddy's 350z has borla true-dual and that is loud, and I want it to try to sound like that. I think I can achieve this by having a midpipe without the resonator. I am not interested in where to get it, becuase my dad's pal owns a race show and gets stuff at wholesale. My buddy picked up his true-dual 350z exhaust for $520, compaired to $800 on Ebay. So, I figure I could get it for around $450.

Troy J.

Also, what would be the best intake? They say the K&N one gets 10 bhp.


Thanks a ton!!


Troy J.

Exhaust discussion here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14114), and intake discussion here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15718). Happy reading! :D

the best intake is the one that's on the car now. stock.

I think you will be surprised at how loud the Borla (or B&B) will be with a midpipe sans resonator -- the rotary will by MUCH louder than the 6 cyl 350Z. Rotaries are known for how loud the exhaust is. Vivid Racing said they got flagged AT THE TRACK for how loud the B&B is with a midpipe but no resonator -- I think it will be too loud for the street. I almost feel self-conscious driving around my neighborhood with just the Borla cat-back. I am getting CZ's midpipe with the resonator.

I love the story in Mazdasport Magazine about the open exhaust RX-7 that will blow out windshields of other cars (like the Porsche they passed at 175 mph and then let up on the gas so the high-pitched exhaust would blow out the guys windshield :D )

Don't forget -- if you remove the cat you will need an O2 fooler or it will CEL.

I started my 8 without the exhaust when I was installing my Borla and all the neighbors on my street came out to see what the unimaginable roar was -- unbelievable sound :D

awesome, I can't wait... I know I am crazy, but who cares?


Troy J.

Originally posted by RXhusker
I am getting CZ's midpipe with the resonator.


Do you think the midpipe/resonator with the borla will keep the sound levels at a sane level? I just can't have another loud car, it's so damn annoying, especially in a $30k car.

BTW: send me some pics of your car with the tint, im lookin at HO myself

I am trusting Maurice on the sound of the CZ midpipe with resonator. I believe he has stated that it is louder than stock but acceptable. Without resonator -- for track only on the sound level.

Originally posted by epitrochoid
Do you think the midpipe/resonator with the borla will keep the sound levels at a sane level? I just can't have another loud car, it's so damn annoying, especially in a $30k car.

BTW: send me some pics of your car with the tint, im lookin at HO myself

you'll have to hook us up with a sound clip. that with the borla or the sp2 is my intended setup once i go stage 2

Originally posted by epitrochoid
the best intake is the one that's on the car now. stock.

It's funny because I was going to say nearly the same thing. The stock exhaust is cheapest and only makes a few horsepower less than the rest.

JeupRX-8: If you replace the exhaust with an aftermarket system there is no "best" system. What defines "best" anyways? Is it the most power at peak rpm's? Is it which one makes the most average horsepower? Is it which one is the loudest? Quietest? Least raspy? Tone is subject to opinion. You get the picture. I suspect that you are wondering which one will give you the most power gain on a dyno and this would imply the most peak power (which is also the LEAST relevant issue). The answer is going to be hard to come by since different places test differently and I've never seen the same base numbers. None of the aftermarket systems will have any noticeable, feelable advantage over the other. Some of the ricers out there think that their systems are faster just because they are louder or because someone else says so. Don't fall into this catagory. Realize that most every system will be very comparable to each other in the power department and none of them will make you impressively faster if at all. The sound of each system will vary widely though so decide which one sounds and looks best to you and choose that way. If you try to decide based soley off of power numbers you aren't going to get very far.

Originally posted by RXhusker
I think you will be surprised at how loud the Borla (or B&B) will be with a midpipe sans resonator -- the rotary will by MUCH louder than the 6 cyl 350Z. Rotaries are known for how loud the exhaust is. Vivid Racing said they got flagged AT THE TRACK for how loud the B&B is with a midpipe but no resonator -- I think it will be too loud for the street. I almost feel self-conscious driving around my neighborhood with just the Borla cat-back. I am getting CZ's midpipe with the resonator.

I love the story in Mazdasport Magazine about the open exhaust RX-7 that will blow out windshields of other cars (like the Porsche they passed at 175 mph and then let up on the gas so the high-pitched exhaust would blow out the guys windshield :D )

Don't forget -- if you remove the cat you will need an O2 fooler or it will CEL.

I started my 8 without the exhaust when I was installing my Borla and all the neighbors on my street came out to see what the unimaginable roar was -- unbelievable sound :D

anyone have a sound clip of that LOUD SOUND i want to hear it....i think we all want to hear it

Originally posted by JeupRX-8
I plan to get my own custom midpie without a resonator and have the Borla or a better exhaust to equal 20 to 21 bhp, hopefully.

On your automatic RX-8, you will not be able to get anywhere near 20 hp with exhaust modifications - you might get 5, maybe. The manual high-power Renesis engines are making more power with exhaust changes, but even then they won't get 20, maybe 10. Your low-power engine, with fewer more restrictive ports and lower revs, simply can't benefit from freeing up the exhaust as much. Similarly, an intake will be worth nothing on an auto RX-8, because it only helps on the manual cars above 6500 rpm to 9000 rpm (and then only by about 6 hp max), where your auto can't go. At 7K redline, the breathing is not restricted on your car by the stock intake, so an aftermarket intake is of no benefit.

Regards,
Gordon

Everybody has to rain on my parade... geez. What is up with manual owners giving hell to auto owners. I mean, I know I have an auto (my dad made me buy one for his own sake); but for god sake, there has to be something out there!
:(


Troy J.

Originally posted by JeupRX-8
Everybody has to rain on my parade... geez. What is up with manual owners giving hell to auto owners. I mean, I know I have an auto (my dad made me buy one for his own sake); but for god sake, there has to be something out there!
:(


Troy J.

It's not the manual owner's that are raining on your parade, it's physics. The plain and simple fact is that you bought the slow version and that it has little potential without forced induction. Even then you are severly limited. Here's a thread that I wrote that expains it all in technical terms:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20148

I don't think Gord96BRG or rotorygod are being overly negative. I can see their point about spending all that money when you are not getting much return in terms of performance. If you are going just for looks/sound than that's a different story. It's your money afterall.

Most of the gains out there are primarily around peak rpm yet don't do hardly anything anywhere else. This isn't usably faster unless you want to consider a lighter wallet a weight savings. Manufacturers highlight peak hp gains as opposed to average horsepower gains. Peak horsepower sells product, average horsepower makes you faster. They only care about selling product.

I am just frustrated because I can't believe that with this car, exhaust, intake, etc. doesn't give you anything. With one of the cars that I owned (2003 Hyundai TIburon V6 170hp), I bought and exhaust and intake for it, and I got almost 29 peak hp and 15 mid-range with that. Why in the world can't the 8 do that? It is a performance vehicle after all, and I thought these cars were easy to juice up the hp? Guess not, in this case.


Troy J.

actually i must say this thread is getting into a really informative thread. Being that I have a civic; Simply putting in an Intake made a difference (VTEC hehe), then exhaust and headers.. it was something i could tell. But the car would too loud so i got rid of the exhaust n headers and went back to stock also helped with the down towards the rx

as for the RX-8 it seems that the stock setup isthe best possible so far. but besides an ECU how else can we gain some power.
I am not looking into racing but i would like to get a lil more power outta the car.

I am a newbie in the performance dept i guess. Oh wise ones share your infinite wisdom with us.

I was thinkin of getting the GReddy SP2 but now it seems like a waste of money, and i really dont want a louder car i HATE MY CIVIC for that.

You can't compare one engine to another in terms of performance potential. The Renesis is pretty close to its max potential right now (assuming it is tuned properly). The 4 port engine has very small ports and not alot of port timing. After the air traveling through the ports reaches .6 mach there are no more gains to be had and power will fall off. So revving it up higher is out. Also if the exhaust and intake already flow as much air as the engine can already use, there really isn't going to be any benefit form changing anything and therefore not much extra power available.

Mazda did a very good job with this engine but many are still in denial over it. People complain about 238 hp and such but remember that the last nonturbo rotary was only 160hp and was a much dirtier engine. That difference alone is huge and was very hard to improve upon for almost 30 years without forced induction.

It's time to face the facts and get over the denial. The 4 port engine has so little performance potential over what it already has that it almost isn't worth touching. If you want an engine with more potential, buy an engine with more potential but that one isn't it.

Any of you guys using Amuse exhaust ?

I am over the fact that the auto can't gain, I was mearly discussing the Rotary Engine lineup in general. IMO, these engines are a joke for tuning; if I would have known as much as I do now I wouldn't have purchased the vehicle. Compared to conventional engines, the Rotary engine isn't shit besides the 90lbs less. All the rotary gods are going to flock to this, but it is the truth. The engine is pretty much as high as it can go (maybee the manual can be tuned to a bit higher), but it does not accept mods like a standard V6 or I6. My friend's 350z has gained 30+ HP on an intake & exhaust for god's sake! The Rotary is a very poor engine for aftermarket tuning and I am pissed about that, but life is a bitch... so what do ya do? I am 18 and I have this car for a 5 year loan, shit. :mad:


Troy J.

'04 RX-8 Slowbox with Touring Pkg.

Trust me, we will see 300hp naturally aspirated Renesis engines out there in the near future. It can be done. It just takes time to figure out.

If your friends Z gained 30hp from an exhaust and an intake you shouldn't be impressed. That doesn't mean that the engine has potential. It means that Nissan didn't do a very good job at maximizing their product. Mazda did here too but they skimped on the ecu. Easy fix. They did everything else very well to begin with which is why gains are going to be few. A little retuning on the 6 port engine in conjunction with an intake and exhaust will get these engines up another 40 hp or so.

Lets go look at the little weakling Honda engines in the Civics. 1.6l of raw something. These little cars come stock with headers. No one else does that. This is why the ricers that change them don't really get much of a gain. The aftermarket intake manifolds have shorter, higher flowing runners yet the cars lose power in 90% of their usable powerband. Sure you can change the cam, pistons, compression ratio, valves, etc. You can do the equivalent on a rotary too. We call it porting and this is good for some more power as well. These little Honda mods don't do crap for power although their owners will claim otherwise out of denial. I have a stock Civic EX. 127hp from the factory. Just for grins I raced a little ricer in the same type of Civic one day who had his exhaust and intake and a Venom intake manifold. I wasn't the slow one. OK I was the slow one but he was slower! That engine was a joke. He made up all these excuses but the reality was that there isn't much to do to those cars to improve them without taking the engine apart.

The race rotaries can get up near 350 hp naturally aspirated horsepower from a 2 rotor. Now that is impressive. They can go to stratoshperic rpm's and stay there all day. The race engines are in no way streetable but neither are piston race engines.

How can you say that the rotary is poor for aftermarket tuning when all of the past rotaries would get much larger gains per dollar spent than their piston counterparts and I'm not referring to turbocharged models? The RX-8 is so new and no one is patient enough to wait for development. Give it time. The power will climb when we figure out where Mazda left us room to improve. Every engine has is. This one is just better to begin with.

Originally posted by JeupRX-8
I am over the fact that the auto can't gain, I was mearly discussing the Rotary Engine lineup in general. IMO, these engines are a joke for tuning; if I would have known as much as I do now I wouldn't have purchased the vehicle. Compared to conventional engines, the Rotary engine isn't shit besides the 90lbs less. All the rotary gods are going to flock to this, but it is the truth. The engine is pretty much as high as it can go (maybee the manual can be tuned to a bit higher), but it does not accept mods like a standard V6 or I6. My friend's 350z has gained 30+ HP on an intake & exhaust for god's sake! The Rotary is a very poor engine for aftermarket tuning and I am pissed about that, but life is a bitch... so what do ya do? I am 18 and I have this car for a 5 year loan, shit. :mad:


Troy J.

'04 RX-8 Slowbox with Touring Pkg.

seems to me that troy bought the car for the wrong reason..( i mean his dad)... like millions of other threads say, you should have bought a z or a evo if you want that type of power... Then again you are 18 and don't know much... Next time do research and don't be so negative...

Originally posted by rotarygod
Lets go look at the little weakling Honda engines in the Civics. 1.6l of raw something. These little cars come stock with headers. No one else does that.

Um, the Miata comes with headers, too.
Nice, big 4 into 1 job. :o

Originally posted by Maniac
Um, the Miata comes with headers, too.
Nice, big 4 into 1 job. :o

Well that's cool!

Originally posted by rotarygod
Trust me, we will see 300hp naturally aspirated Renesis engines out there in the near future. It can be done. It just takes time to figure out.

How can you say that the rotary is poor for aftermarket tuning when all of the past rotaries would get much larger gains per dollar spent than their piston counterparts and I'm not referring to turbocharged models? The RX-8 is so new and no one is patient enough to wait for development. Give it time. The power will climb when we figure out where Mazda left us room to improve. Every engine has is. This one is just better to begin with.

with that said rotary god...would you think its a better idea to pass on the exhaust for now and jsut wait it out for things to come? i have a good price on the SP2.. if its not going to give a noticable perforamnce gain id rather wait.

Exhaust and intake aer only going to get you small gains for the money. Tuning is whee the performance is at with this car. Get a retuned (preferrably tunable) ecu before you do anything to the car. There is no point to making the engine breath better if the ecu can't properly compensate for it. It does a lousy job now. After the ecu upgrade then get the exhaust and intake. We're still waiting for a good ignition system to come out as well. Yaw has one in the works. Another good mod that is feelable is a lightweight flywheel. This was one of the best mods that I ever did to my RX-7's. Later on down the line as people progress with porting we'll see more gains.

Originally posted by rotarygod
We're still waiting for a good ignition system to come out as well. Yaw has one in the works.

You can already do ignition.
The AEM C2DI with MSD-style DIS coils is nearly plug and play.
You can get it here (http://www.gothamracing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=100_107_350&products_id=877) for $350. Then four of these (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD%2D8230) at $46 a piece and you are there.
You could also just go with a two channel setup from MSD (like I did) or the 2 channel version of the AEM since the trailing plugs are of minimal interest and the screwed-up firing order thing is going to cause headaches.

However, the whole issue is probably moot since the gains are minimal below 7500 where the stock coils just start to run out of dwell.

Well JeupRX-8.....
SNIP>>>>>>>>
My friend's 350z has gained 30+ HP on an intake & exhaust for god's sake!
END of snip>>>>>>>>>>>>
I would say you and your friend need to be a bit more skeptical. We do snowmobiles up here in WI. You buy a sled (say a 600) and do some wonderful mods to it, each claiming 5 HP here, 10 hp there and when you are done you add up the claimed increases making your wiz sled more powerful than a 900. The problem with all this is 'gol darn it, is that stock 700 sleds are kicking your *ss! Maybe you ended up being a bit faster than other 600s, but you certainly didn't get the increases claimed.
The moral? Until you have verified claims for yourself in a reliable way (not "man, it sure is/sounds/feels faster!!!), don't believe everything you hear.
Tom

Originally posted by Maniac
You can already do ignition.
The AEM C2DI with MSD-style DIS coils is nearly plug and play.
You can get it here (http://www.gothamracing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=100_107_350&products_id=877) for $350. Then four of these (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD%2D8230) at $46 a piece and you are there.
You could also just go with a two channel setup from MSD (like I did) or the 2 channel version of the AEM since the trailing plugs are of minimal interest and the screwed-up firing order thing is going to cause headaches.

However, the whole issue is probably moot since the gains are minimal below 7500 where the stock coils just start to run out of dwell.

I know that one can be put together if you know how. Luckily you do! There just isn't anyone selling it as a direct upgrade specifically for the RX-8 yet and many out there only wait for a vendor to say here it is. If someone would just sell those same parts but say they could work on the RX-8 then people would start to use them more. I know it's no different but others just need to be told it will work. Believe me if I had an RX-8, I'd be working on the ignition, intake, exhaust, ecu, etc by myself using the raw parts that I want.

Maybe I should cobble together some kits, then!

moral of the story is that I am going to pass on the exhaust, intake, midpipe for now and hope that they come out with mods for the lonely auotmatic. I will key on appearance and maybee in the fall I will go towards modding the performance.


Troy J.

Originally posted by JeupRX-8
moral of the story is that I am going to pass on the exhaust, intake, midpipe for now and hope that they come out with mods for the lonely auotmatic. I will key on appearance and maybee in the fall I will go towards modding the performance.


Troy J.


good plan:D

sounds better to me... if you can't go fast...atleast look good not doing it....

Originally posted by JeupRX-8
moral of the story is that I am going to pass on the exhaust, intake, midpipe for now and hope that they come out with mods for the lonely auotmatic. I will key on appearance and maybee in the fall I will go towards modding the performance.


Troy J.


wow u seem really bitter.. if i had this car at 18 i wuda been happy with it stock damit!

as for 30HP on a 350z w/ intake exhaust i wanna see that.

i have seen many 350z claim this and then get spanked by stock STis.

man enjoy the car for a year more things will come give it time. or trade the car get a civic hatch adn mod the hell outta it ive seen some fast hatchs around here that would blow the doors off 350z/Evo and even STi

Since my old 2nd gen RX-7 nonturbo could get 30 wheel horsepower out of a nice exhaust, it is plausible that the 350Z could too. My RX-7 began life with only 146hp. 30 more to the wheels is downright impressive. We're talking about damn near a 40% increase in total power from just an exhaust!

The 350Z has over 100 more hp than my RX-7 did. Unlike the Renesis the Z's engine does not have any siamsed exhaust ports to mess up the exhaust tuning. Neither did the previous rotaries. The Z has the typical crappy exhaust manifolds so typical on most cars. By replacing them with a decent set of headers and a nice free flowing exhaust and better intake, 30 hp seems attainable.

A stock STI is a much faster car than a stock Z. It will take more than 30 hp more in the Z to be the STI's equal.