All these cars will be out soon (the Evo being the first, followed by the RX8 and the STi), and all have exceptional handling and power. They will also, most likely, be around the 30k range, and be competing against one another. I know there have been comparisons made between the RX-8 and the 350Z, but has anyone around here considered the "rally" sedans? They've been proven handling performers in the WRC for years, and may give the 8 a run for its money. Any thoughts about that (Herc)?
I know I'm going to want to see some shootouts between all 3 cars before I put money down on anything.

Interesting question -

They are certainly all quick cars , and all due out soon. However , I am not really sure they are fair to compare -

Evo8 and Sti are both amazing machines. They are also both 4wd , unlike the RX8.

They are also both forced induction, unlike the RX8. Now awesome as these machines are (and I prepare myself to get shot down here) There is nothing particularly elegant about forced induction.
"We need loads of power"
"stick a turbo on it !"
The Subaru in particular must be a rather inefficient engine.
Looking at the power for the NA subaru , the 2.0 produces a miserable 120bhp and still only manages 26MPG. That is dire !
Only by whacking a turbo on it do they and real power at all.
Compare to the RX8 , which not only has a NA system , but it has a rotary as well - Now that is truely innovative.

Then the bodyshell. The Evo and Subaru are both based on rather ordinary saloons. Can we really put the RX8 shell into this category ?

Lastly (for now , until the flame war starts) the price.
Here in the UK the Sti is £26,995 (I believe)
The evo8 is *rumoured) to be £25,995.
RX8 is £21,995 in high power guise. Now that is cheap compared.

In conclusion - The evo and Sti will be fine , fast[er?] cars - but I think those in the market for an RX8 will be looking for something different to what they offer.
The rx8 will be unique in the marketplace - and for that Mazda must be applauded !

All opinions purely my own etc etc....

Morgan.

PS- I love the 'lilac' colour offered on the UK evo8s however !
Not to everyones taste , but there you go ....

Take this with a grain of salt because this is just what I have gathered from a few sparse articles and rumors flying around the Net:

I know Subaru is coming out with a new WRX, (whether it is this STi model or not I don't recall), that will have something like 300 HP. Yes it will have more HP than the 8 and will be AWD and will in all speculation handle better.

That all being said, I think that WRX and the 8 are aimed at different audiences. For example the awesome leather interior, heated seats, heated exterior mirrors, DVD Nav and other creature comforts of the 8 are not going to be offered on the new WRX. That is, at least from what I have read they are not planning on offering them.

Personally, being from OH and with the winters we sometimes get and the traveling that I do, I am more than willing to sacrifice some power and handling for a little better ride and all the associated options.

I HATE IT WHEN I GET ICE ON MY SIDE VIEW MIRRORS!!!

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if the RX-8 could keep up with or maybe even be faster than the Evo or STi on a race course. I'm no fool. Both the Evo and STi will school the RX-8 in 0-60 and 1/4 times, but the little rotary does have a few more track friendly characteristics.

First being RWD instead of AWD. AWD only translates to better handling in the snow, around a dry track RWD is king. Second, less weight. Handling superiority will only be determined at the track comparo, though we have heard that the RX-8 will handle better than the RX-7 and the 3rd gen was no slouch in that department.

Don't forget that RWD is more fun than AWD :)

Edit: Since I was asked by name I'll throw in a few more thoughts :)

I like RWD not for the fact that it's better on a track (dry) but because it allows me to do stupid things that I am limited from doing in AWD... Gas the car on an exit and you can kick the tail out, countersteer and you can drift.

Donuts :)

I've found that doing a 360 is easier in a RWD car, even a FWD car than an AWD car (and yes I've done it in all of them, I attempted to do it in a Subaru Legacy of my uncle's, to no fruit).

And it's more balanced. The weight the RX-8 saves from NOT being AWD to me benefits more than it having it. It's more nimble and agile for that reason.

And as it was said, the RX-8 looks better. The interior quality is going to be scores above the STi/Evo. There is a great amount of power in the STi but if I wanted that I could easily have gotten a Mustang; I prefer to have the balance, weight, and engineering prowess that's in the RX-8 instead of the balls-to-the-wall AWD STi/Evo.

Styling wise, there is no comparison. I've never been fond of the late 80's Ford Escort look :)

As a rotary nut and a rally fool, let me clear up some points here.

The STI will be faster than the RX8, everywhere. This car is a wet dream for those that like tech specs. It's a 2.5l built boxer with a turbo and it makes 300hp and 300lb/ft of torque and redlines at 7000rpm to 7500rpm. It has Subaru's new 6 speed bulletproof gearbox, a viscous front diff, a mechanical rear diff and a driver controlled center differential which the driver can adjust the power bias front/rear from 50:50 to 35:65 f/r, giving it rear wheel drive like handling characteristics (ever seen a 22B do a power slide? Same system.) The car also has Brembo brakes, a Momo steering wheel, racing seats and comes with semi-slick tires and BBS wheels. It is a very amazing package and Subaru is taking no prisoners. Period.

That said, it's very, VERY different from the RX8. It is still a sedan, still doesn't look great even with the new front end, and doesn't have the best quality interior. Given its weight distribution, it won't have the razor sharp turn in the RX8 deserves to have. It also won't feel like a low slung sports car like the RX8. Also, expect the STI to cost between $32,000 and $35,000US. More than a fully loaded RX8.

The EVO8 will be closer matched to RX8 in terms of overall performance, it has 271hp and 273lb/ft of torque from a 2.0l inline-4 which shares roots with those engines used in the old turbo Eclipses. It forgoes a lot of the high tech electronics used in the EVO7 to reduce cost and complexity. Expect those devices to return in the EVO9 given what Subaru has done with the STi.

If it were my money, it'd be a really hard choice between the STi and the RX8. They are very different cars, but both really, really appeal to me. One of each in my garage would be the way to go.

The good thing about all this competition is that a Mazdaspeed RX-8 is almost a certainty, and I'm sure they will beef up the power appropriately. Make no mistake, the Japanese manufacturers have declared war with each other over North America, are taking no prisoners, and the outcome will only be beneficial to us enthusiasts. Don't forget there is a 400hp GTR on the way to us too . . .

Originally posted by RX8-Rob
Make no mistake, the Japanese manufacturers have declared war with each other over North America, are taking no prisoners, and the outcome will only be beneficial to us enthusiasts. Don't forget there is a 400hp GTR on the way to us too . . .

WTF ?????? since when did Nissan get balls and try to sell a GT-R in muscle country?? and i thought they are going out of production, with a final run, N1 spec bunch of cars (but there are only gonna be 1000 of those...)
????????????

Both the STi and RX-8 are great cars, but have totally different purposes.

Sure the STi has a lot of power, but the suspension is just McStruts, and the motor is high up and way forward in the engine bay. The RX-8 suspension is much more sophisticated (dbl wishbone and multilink), and the engine and everything of any weight is extremely low and as close to the center of the car as possible.

Believe me, there are huge benefits to both the mid-engined layout and the better suspension. Mazda wouldn't have bothered with them if there wasn't.

On most tracks or AutoX, the RX-8 will have the advantage. In a straight line or a rally course, the STi has the advantage.

For me personally, the RX-8 better fits what I'm into (track, auto-x), and I'm not gonna spend $30k+ on a brand new car and then drive it in the mud. If I really wanted a straight-line car, I would just pick up an F-body, they're pretty cheap these days. The STi's engine is good and all, but for that purpose you just can't argue with a 5.7L V8. ;)

Originally posted by RX8-Rob
Also, expect the STI to cost between $32,000 and $35,000US. More than a fully loaded RX8.And can you imagine how much it'll cost to insure one of those suckers?!?

Originally posted by m477
Both the STi and RX-8 are great cars, but have totally different purposes.

Sure the STi has a lot of power, but the suspension is just McStruts, and the motor is high up and way forward in the engine bay. The RX-8 suspension is much more sophisticated (dbl wishbone and multilink), and the engine and everything of any weight is extremely low and as close to the center of the car as possible.

Believe me, there are huge benefits to both the mid-engined layout and the better suspension. Mazda wouldn't have bothered with them if there wasn't.

On most tracks or AutoX, the RX-8 will have the advantage. In a straight line or a rally course, the STi has the advantage.

For me personally, the RX-8 better fits what I'm into (track, auto-x), and I'm not gonna spend $30k+ on a brand new car and then drive it in the mud. If I really wanted a straight-line car, I would just pick up an F-body, they're pretty cheap these days. The STi's engine is good and all, but for that purpose you just can't argue with a 5.7L V8. ;)

The STi's are built for autoX, and dry weather tracks too. The EVO 7 has been tearing up road courses due to it's AWD system, and the STi's AWD is even better. The STi's do well on the road, in the mud, and in the 1/4 mile. If you haven't driven a well equipped STi, then you don't know the kind of skidpad-esque performance it can dish out. The EVO8 has a skidpad rating of over 1 g, if you're telling me that thing won't be able to squeeze the hell out of a slab of tarmac, then I want some of what you're smoking. Also, lots of the guys on this forum ordered 8's with all the options, and that ended up costing 32k. Who needs NAV in a supposed AutoX car? Not to mention that the new EVO8 is going to be coming in at a measly 25g's. I'd be willing to bet that it's going to give the RX-8 a run for it's handling money.

The reason I started this forum up is to compare the other top AutoX cars to the RX-8, since most of you seem to be buying the 8 for just that purpose. RX-8 Rob put it best thus far.

Top Gear magazine has a preview drive of the RX-8 at the Mazda proving ground, and the editor wrote "on a long straight, the RX-8 would be right on the bumper of an STi, even though the initial acceleration is less brutal".
I agree, if all goes well the RX-8 should keep up with an STi on a road course, which is an enormous achievement.

The STI and EVO have been changing their out-looking how many time that i can't remember. The style between EVO7 and EVO8 in only two years. Therefore, Lancer Evolution is VALUELESS car. The STI is the valueless, too. However, the RX-8 is valued car as RX-7. Why the RWD is more Popular than others such as the RX-7? The RX-8 has good DNA from the RX-7. The Rotary engine is unique. All folks think about this fact :D i don't want my new car bacome old car without two or three years and without pay-off the car. Therefore, i will not consider the EVO and STI.

Originally posted by wakeech


WTF ?????? since when did Nissan get balls and try to sell a GT-R in muscle country?? and i thought they are going out of production, with a final run, N1 spec bunch of cars (but there are only gonna be 1000 of those...)
????????????

It's a well known fact that the next GTR will be a world car, and will be coming to this continent, probably in 2005. It will (probably) have a 3.3l V6 with twin electrically assisted turbos. The electric motors will spool up the turbos rather than wait for exhaust gas pressure. This means that there will be no turbo lag on this car, but still have the high end power that two good sized turbos can produce. Rumors are it will make 400hp.

BTW, the British STi is very different to the STi we are getting. Ours is considerably more powerful and has the DCCD system, which the Brits don't. There is no doubt that the STi is in a class above the RX8. It's like saying my S2000 will keep up with one, which it just won't. Face it, there will always be faster cars out there, which is not always a bad thing.

The european spec EVO VII finished fourth in Road & Track's best handling cars competition last year (behind the Ferrari 360 Modena, Lotus Elise and Porshe 911 Turbo). Granted, our version will be a bit watered down, but I'm sure it'll still offer fine handling. The RX8, while looking great on paper, still hasn't had its handling prowess proven in the world..yet..at least.

Handling can be subjective, and different kinds of cars can be different types of good handlers. Personally, I prefer a light, tossable car such as the S2000 and the RX8 (at least i hope it ends up to be). However, if the RX8 ends up being too bland, I would consider the Lancer Evolution and even the STI (though I think it has more power than I want!:eek: )

From an objective performance point of view, I think the RX8 will be hard-pressed keeping up with either of these two rally cars. In some ways, its kind of similar to comparing the RSX-S to the WRX. The RSX-S is lighter, higher reving, more refined, but ultimately offers less overall performance (including handling) for the $.

I think the main part in reviewers saying that the RX-8 will 'keep up' with the STi/Evo is that the top speed on the WRX and Evo aren't that high, because rally cars don't hit top speeds while racing, so they are designed differently.

And besides it remains to be seen what kind of pull they have at higher rev ranges.. the STi/Evo will definately be faster, but I think the RX-8 will be more fun ;)

Originally posted by koolaid80


The STi's are built for autoX, and dry weather tracks too. The EVO 7 has been tearing up road courses due to it's AWD system, and the STi's AWD is even better. The STi's do well on the road, in the mud, and in the 1/4 mile. If you haven't driven a well equipped STi, then you don't know the kind of skidpad-esque performance it can dish out. The EVO8 has a skidpad rating of over 1 g, if you're telling me that thing won't be able to squeeze the hell out of a slab of tarmac, then I want some of what you're smoking. Also, lots of the guys on this forum ordered 8's with all the options, and that ended up costing 32k. Who needs NAV in a supposed AutoX car? Not to mention that the new EVO8 is going to be coming in at a measly 25g's. I'd be willing to bet that it's going to give the RX-8 a run for it's handling money.

The reason I started this forum up is to compare the other top AutoX cars to the RX-8, since most of you seem to be buying the 8 for just that purpose. RX-8 Rob put it best thus far.
AWD doesn't mean better handling. The suspension keeping as much rubber to the ground as possible means better handling, and a double wishbone simply does a better job of keeping more rubber on the road that struts. Period.

When the FD came out, it was tested by R&T to be the fastest car around a track, faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo. The 911 Turbo had better acceleration AND better braking, but still turned slower track times than the FD. The 911 had struts and the FD had the same double-wishbone/multilink that the RX-8 has. Nuff said.

Lateral g's doesn't necessarily equate better track times, IIRC the MK4 Supra pulled close to 1 g, and it isn't really the best track car, and certainly not a good auto-x car at all...

Originally posted by m477

AWD doesn't mean better handling. The suspension keeping as much rubber to the ground as possible means better handling, and a double wishbone simply does a better job of keeping more rubber on the road that struts. Period.

When the FD came out, it was tested by R&T to be the fastest car around a track, faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo. The 911 Turbo had better acceleration AND better braking, but still turned slower track times than the FD. The 911 had struts and the FD had the same double-wishbone/multilink that the RX-8 has. Nuff said.

Lateral g's doesn't necessarily equate better track times, IIRC the MK4 Supra pulled close to 1 g, and it isn't really the best track car, and certainly not a good auto-x car at all... Thanks m :)

Here is an image from the artice I was talking about. It speaks for itself.
http://karmalab.org/~matt/images/SKIDPAD.JPG

Thats it both EVO/STI are true sedans with porkly drivetrains and one Boxter the other Inline piston engines which weigh at least 150 lb more than the Renisis the Ren weights 332 lbs and a 2.0
Boxter out of a WRX weights 420 lbs Curb weight for RX8 is 2900
(I know I rounded it;) ) and the other 2 weight any where from 3300 to 3700 lbs. Now the truth is slowly coming out its Power to weight Ratio which the RX8 holds hands down. Old Newton law of physics still apply. It takes less force to move a lighter object and keep it moving over a heavier object.

Originally posted by Spining Ncnratr
Thats it both EVO/STI are true sedans with porkly drivetrains and one Boxter the other Inline piston engines which weigh at least 150 lb more than the Renisis the Ren weights 332 lbs and a 2.0
Boxter out of a WRX weights 420 lbs Curb weight for RX8 is 2900
(I know I rounded it;) ) and the other 2 weight any where from 3300 to 3700 lbs. Now the truth is slowly coming out its Power to weight Ratio which the RX8 holds hands down. Old Newton law of physics still apply. It takes less force to move a lighter object and keep it moving over a heavier object.

Hopefully the RX-8 will be around 2900. I believe the renesis itself is actually around 273 lbs not 332 lbs. There were two articles that mentioned 270 - 273 lbs. I believe there was also one article that mentioned 338 lbs, but I think they just got the engine height mixed up with the weight. The height of the renesis is 338mm.

Brian

Have tested the Suby....

My God... what an awful (and aweful) car.

Loads of acceleration but absolutely NO CLASS. The interior is plasticky, knobs are loose and they just understeer all the time.

Even my MX-6 with it's fat body, FWD and 65/35 weight distribution doesn't understeer anything near this car. (The 6 has been balanced up a bit, mind you, with the battery in the boot and a stiffer rear sway bar - now is *very* nearly neutral, but still won't lift off oversteer due to 4WS).

The 8 is pure class... can't wait.

Although it's all highly spculative since we don't know the performance number yet, but I'm pretty sure that on a tight'ish but flowing track a stock RX-8 should at the least keep up with the other 2 cars. AutoX (torque and traction and lack momentum are at a premium), and high speed tracks would likely favour the Evo and Sti on power and traction alone. How much though? Although the Sti has a 50 hp advantage, it's heavier (by at least a couple hunder pounds), and wil most likely have more mechanical drivetrain loss due to the the all-wheel drive. The gap should be even less to the EVO 8 with it's 278hp. Having said that, on long straights the 8 would still probably loose ground, how much though is still a question with it's better aerodynamics.

Centre of gravity, polar inertia, and suspension design will also all be superior to the 8's. Don't forget we're talking about a performance suspension package on the 8 as well.The brakes may also be better on the 8, simply because the lower curb weight and lower centre of gravity (they're also really damn big!). Brake fade may be a weakness though.

While 4 wheel drive typically understeers on tarmac, exotic diff's can help hide a lot of that trait. Unfortunately, from what I've read, the Evo (and possible the Sti) will be getting watered-down mechanical units instead of the tarmac-optimal computer controlled electronic diffs.

Yes, different marketed cars. But given the track layout , the results could be very close.

Originally posted by Hercules
I think the main part in reviewers saying that the RX-8 will 'keep up' with the STi/Evo is that the top speed on the WRX and Evo aren't that high, because rally cars don't hit top speeds while racing, so they are designed differently.

And besides it remains to be seen what kind of pull they have at higher rev ranges.. the STi/Evo will definately be faster, but I think the RX-8 will be more fun ;)

FYI, the max speed of the evo and the sti are both 150+ mph, and the STi has a max rpm of right around 7000 rpm, not to mention that the STi and evo have more torque, and torque AND hp is what really counts on the track.

Originally posted by m477

AWD doesn't mean better handling. The suspension keeping as much rubber to the ground as possible means better handling, and a double wishbone simply does a better job of keeping more rubber on the road that struts. Period.

When the FD came out, it was tested by R&T to be the fastest car around a track, faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo. The 911 Turbo had better acceleration AND better braking, but still turned slower track times than the FD. The 911 had struts and the FD had the same double-wishbone/multilink that the RX-8 has. Nuff said.

Lateral g's doesn't necessarily equate better track times, IIRC the MK4 Supra pulled close to 1 g, and it isn't really the best track car, and certainly not a good auto-x car at all...

you can't compare one strut-suspensioned car (especially as heavy as the 911), to one of the best handling dual-wishbone suspensioned cars, the RX7. The supra is no light-weight either, weighing in at 3700 lbs or so. the EVO weighs only slightly more than the RX-8, and has a better power to weight ratio, same goes for the STi. The RX8 WILL have it's hands full trying to compete with both of these cars.

Don't confuse the WRX with the STi - the STi does not understeer much, and thanks to the controllable differential, you can send up to 65% of power to the rear wheels for better cornering. Or leave the computer to control things and it will switch power to the rear when powering out of corners to eliminated understeer and even give you a little oversteer. It will be an amazing machine. With the upgraded steering wheel and seats, it's not that far off from the RX-8, which is not exactly the highest quality interior itself.
Two different approaches to the same thing - both great performance cars on the track.

Originally posted by ricdanger
Have tested the Suby....

My God... what an awful (and aweful) car.

Loads of acceleration but absolutely NO CLASS. The interior is plasticky, knobs are loose and they just understeer all the time.

i believe the rx-8 is going to be same performace of a 350 z. the sti will beat the evo and the evo will be ahead of 8 and 350 but what about the new GTO 5.7 v8 340 hp 360 lb-ft in a 6 speed and rear wheel drive stuffed in to a grand am body with 18s and 2+2 seating and look at the interior sweet. and only weighing 3616 lbs only 600 lbs more than the rx-8 . its going to get interesting i love it. jsut like back when my dad was growing up a battle of cars. its going to be soo hard to choose. they are all soo good. jsut thought i would bring the up. let me know what u guys think. http://ultimategto.com/2004cars1.htm some good pic of the GTO

The GTO will have 360 HP and around 380/400 Ft Lbs of torque
when it shows I think late Summer early Fall.

And if the GTO is anything like other American cars it will suck around a track.

I'd rather take a 100 horsepower less, 600 lb less car that will fly rings around a mass torquemonster like the GTO. I have to admit though, the styling is neat :)

Originally posted by Hercules
And if the GTO is anything like other American cars it will suck around a track.Ah, but it's not. It's based on the Holden Monaro developed Down Under. Of course, there's no guarantee that the design droids at Pontiac won't futz with it. :(

Originally posted by Spining Ncnratr
The GTO will have 360 HP and around 380/400 Ft Lbs of torque
when it shows I think late Summer early Fall.

i dont know where u got that from but everwhere i read its going to have 340hp and 360 lb-ft unless they put the ls-6 405 hp in which i doubt they will cause it will take away from the vette u should do some research be for u type and click the link

http://ultimategto.com/2004cars1.htm

and the handling should be pretty good not like a rx though iam getting a sti

I believe that the STi and the EVO will both blow the RX-8 out of the water. On a track, the RX-8 would probably get blown away on straights and catch up around corners, but then get blown away again as the EVO or STi launches itself out of the turn. I believe that the RX-8 looks the best because of it's awesome style, but I dont really care all that much about looks of a car. I care about whats under the hood. Most people aren't going to be taking these cars on a track and because of this the EVO and STi have advantages over the RX-8, being they have AWD and the RX-8 has RWD. The AWD is safer, not to mention the EVO and STi both have one extra seat in the back since they are 4 doors. IMO though, the RX-8 will be the best handling car out of all of the cars and probably the most luxurious. But with performance in a straight line, the STi and EVO will beat it.

Yes but for a lot of us straight line performance is only part of the package we're buying into.

I got the RX-8 because it has *good* accelleration off the line (not great), should have *very good* handling, excellent aesthetics, build quality, and of course a very gorgeous styling in a package that has the right price, features, amenities and practicality.

Sure the STi/Evo will be fast cars but they don't have the package that I'm looking for. I'll admit it, I am making tradeoffs... I could get the G35 Coupe for that power, but then I'd lose on the styling and presumably the handling. I could get the Evo/STi but then I'd lose out on the fun factor of RWD. I could get the 350Z but then I lose practicality. I could get the 330 but then I lose out on price.

The RX-8 for me, is the ideal car at the ideal time for me to buy. I think a lot of people here share my views.

If the Mazda6 MPS make it into production:

Mazda6 MPS vs Lancer Evo VIII vs Subaru WRX STi

Much better and realistic

Well I have a WRX STi TypeUK (261bhp) and I am seriously considering swapping it for the RX8.

I dont expect the RX8 to match the performance 0-60 etc, but as many people have said, there are many other reasons for buying the RX8.

My other choice is to get the prodrive kit for my STi to go to 300bhp (which is the same as the new US version).

I still cant decide which way to go as really I want both! :)

Originally posted by MarkW
Well I have a WRX STi TypeUK (261bhp) and I am seriously considering swapping it for the RX8.

I dont expect the RX8 to match the performance 0-60 etc, but as many people have said, there are many other reasons for buying the RX8.

My other choice is to get the prodrive kit for my STi to go to 300bhp (which is the same as the new US version).

I still cant decide which way to go as really I want both! :) Buy both and have your cake and eat it too :)

Originally posted by Hercules
And if the GTO is anything like other American cars it will suck around a track.

I'd rather take a 100 horsepower less, 600 lb less car that will fly rings around a mass torquemonster like the GTO. I have to admit though, the styling is neat :)

Its not NA but Austrailian So I think the Handeling should be a little better than avg. I'm not defending it just posting facts. I want the OSV Holden over 400 HP and about .89 to .92 on 200 ft
Skid pad. But chances of GM Importing it nill to none.

Originally posted by bigb_9_99


i dont know where u got that from but everwhere i read its going to have 340hp and 360 lb-ft unless they put the ls-6 405 hp in which i doubt they will cause it will take away from the vette u should do some research be for u type and click the link

http://ultimategto.com/2004cars1.htm

and the handling should be pretty good not like a rx though iam getting a sti

Well the C6 is getting the 375 HP Next gen engine so all possable
But with the 03 Cobra out there in the same price range GM can not afford to make the GTO a looker only. It has to have a chance to compete at least on a favorable footing. Not only that but Pontiac is already toying with the intake and exhaust so gaining 20 HP could be possable as nothing is cast in stone yet for the GTO.

Originally posted by Hercules
Buy both and have your cake and eat it too :) see that's the wrong way around. i can have cake and eat it but i can't eat it and still have it to eat again, so it should be:
you can eat your cake and have it too.;) :p

The Monaro has been kicking butt on the circuit in Europe, so it likely will handle more like a Z06 than a Camaro. I think it will be a kind of poor man's Z06, depending on the price. If it's much more than $30k it won't sell. Who would buy it over a 2 year old Z06?

Originally posted by Hercules
And if the GTO is anything like other American cars it will suck around a track.

I'd rather take a 100 horsepower less, 600 lb less car that will fly rings around a mass torquemonster like the GTO. I have to admit though, the styling is neat :)

do you realise the american spec STI no longer lives up to the STI's roots?....
anyways...you'd be suprised as the weight distribution of the evo...very close to 50:50, the sti tends to understeer...the evo tends to oversteer...the first gen RX8 would not compare to more than 10 years rally experience....give mazda time...stop assuming the evo is slower than the STI...i've gotten rides on both JDM evos and STI's...the evo is a better performer hands down...in the best motoring...the evo RS even outperforms an M3, a skyline and an RX7 by giving better lap times...but when coming to pass the skyling..the skyline bumped into the evo. in japan they'd put the 350Z, the S2000, the RX8, the BMW M3 and the porshe boxter in the same category...u know what happened?...the 350Z was faster with the S2000 following closely behind...the skyline was the Camera car...ended up lapping all the cars

First off, I am an Evo owner, so take whatever I say with a large grain of salt. That being said, I drove these three cars for quite a bit before making my decision. What it really comes down to is this... are you looking for:
a) an uncompromising race-track ready car that will provide utility around town?
b) a visually pleasing performance-oriented car that provides the best mix of comfort/performance/looks?
c) a racy-looking car with a beast of an engine that will snap your head back every time you mash the throttle?
These correspond to:
a) Evo
b) RX8
c) STi

With an Evo, you get a great suspension that's track ready, the best stock seats I've ever seen in any car, and a fairly powerful engine to match. What you lose is in-town civility. The ride can be harsh and the interior is spartan. I became naseous after my first ride in an Evo. With an RX8 you get a much more practical interior with better materials, prettier gauges, and more comfortable seats. The ride won't be as harsh as the Evo yet the RX8 is undeniably sporty. People might flail me for saying it, but I liken the RX8 to a modern RWD version of the Honda Prelude. It's got just enough performance to be fun at the track, yet no so overwhelming that you must at all times drive with two hands on the wheel. Finally the STi... if you're looking to impress your friends and show off your stoplight racing skills, the STi is it. The engine is super-powerful and it's got tons of potential. To say that the STi is just a drag racer would be selling it short but I think that it has neither the handling agility of the Evo at the track, nor the clean lines/interior of the RX8.

Each car has it's strengths, you just need to decide what's really important to you.

:eek: Are you guys serious? The RX8 won't touch the EVO or STI on any track. Modify all your little heart desires. Mod for mod the EVO/STI will torture the RX8. Enjoy the superior design and creature comforts in the 8 but don't compare its performance to the $30,000 rally cars.

what bubble says is so true...comfort, luxury, and class sets the 8 apart from those high powered rally cars. Last night I was on the highway, I met with a WRX (not an STi), we both took off at about 95mph, and he was pulling on me!

My god this is an old thread...

what bubble says is so true...comfort, luxury, and class sets the 8 apart from those high powered rally cars. Last night I was on the highway, I met with a WRX (not an STi), we both took off at about 95mph, and he was pulling on me!


Wow. Talk about trying to bring back a thread from the dead. This baby is over 2 years old. :rolleyes:

They just did the same comparison with the MPS 6. The MPS 6 came in last with the lowest score for engine punch and power.

http://www.3dluvr.com/crossbow/incoming/jdm/

Enjoy translating. It is kinda of a bogus review though...cause they give both the MPS 6 and the Sti the same score for cabin interior quality =/.

Wooo!

Simply said the RX-8 shouldn't be compared with the EVO or STI, both these power monster were created for performance as the first priority and other things were lower in the priority list. However both cars does it in total different ways although they are turbo-charged and AWD. The STI has a better balanced chassis than the EVO with the low C.O.G engine and the symmetrical AWD, its handling is achieved with the careful suspension setup from rally feedback to satisfy as many drivers as possible thus it might explain why the car understeers in comparison with the EVO, Best Motoring shows that yawing begins after a while into corner entry to help the car turn. The EVO on the other hand uses electronics to help it turns and Mitsu engineers done a good job in tuning it, the EVO actually exihibits oversteer when induced by the driver when going fast which is exactly what you want to have in a race. If you are to put the same driver in both cars around the track, the one in the EVO would have the advantage because its AWD electronics is more precise in helping the car turn without burning off tires too fast. The latest EVO vs STI in BMI shows that the EVO has better acceleration because there's always a power dip in the STI when launched. In the endurance race in Tsukuba, the EVO wins it, it made a whole lap faster than the RX-8 and a few seconds faster than the STI because it never overheated (the offset position of the license plate helped) for the whole race. Overall I'd say the EVO is a better performance car (due to the advantages mentioned above) if compared with the STI. After the race both the turbo cars' tires were chewed up badly, missing tires chunks n stuff, however the ones on the RX-8 were still ok. Therefore if the race were to go on, there's a chance for the 8 to win but that calls for team strategy. Overall the EVO in my opinion is the best among the three, looks are subjective and calling EVO and STI econobox is plain silly.

well there is no comparison to the 8 because it is the fastest in the twisties and red lines at 10k. The evo and sti were specifically built for pizza delivery boys that need that extra edge. Pizza delivery is a very precise job and the evo/sti can hold 100 party size pizzas. Plus it has awd so pizzas can get to their destination in any weather condition. The faster that pizza arrives the hotter it is to eat and the bigger the tip for the transporter. In short, the 8 is the best pick cause it is fastest in the twisties and higher redline.

Amen :ylsuper:

well there is no comparison to the 8 because it is the fastest in the twisties and red lines at 10k. The evo and sti were specifically built for pizza delivery boys that need that extra edge. Pizza delivery is a very precise job and the evo/sti can hold 100 party size pizzas. Plus it has awd so pizzas can get to their destination in any weather condition. The faster that pizza arrives the hotter it is to eat and the bigger the tip for the transporter. In short, the 8 is the best pick cause it is fastest in the twisties and higher redline.



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That was awesome!!! :ylsuper:

well there is no comparison to the 8 because it is the fastest in the twisties and red lines at 10k. The evo and sti were specifically built for pizza delivery boys that need that extra edge. Pizza delivery is a very precise job and the evo/sti can hold 100 party size pizzas. Plus it has awd so pizzas can get to their destination in any weather condition. The faster that pizza arrives the hotter it is to eat and the bigger the tip for the transporter. In short, the 8 is the best pick cause it is fastest in the twisties and higher redline.

Problem is, I'm done delivering pizzas, but I'm still stuck with the STi. I should've gone with the RX-8. It has the luxury of a Rolls Royce, the handling of a Lotus Elise, the smooth lines and good looks of a Bentley Continental, the plush ride of a Mercedes S-Class, the performance of a Bugatti Veyron, and an engine like a Ferrari F430.

Now that I am a Senior Systems Engineer at a large multinational corporation, I feel ashamed to drive my kiddie clown car to work. A MAZDA would fit in so much better with the BMWs, MBs, Audis, Acuras, and Porsches driven by management. What ever will I do???

Problem is, I'm done delivering pizzas, but I'm still stuck with the STi. I should've gone with the RX-8. It has the luxury of a Rolls Royce, the handling of a Lotus Elise, the smooth lines and good looks of a Bentley Continental, the plush ride of a Mercedes S-Class, the performance of a Bugatti Veyron, and an engine like a Ferrari F430.

Now that I am a Senior Systems Engineer at a large multinational corporation, I feel ashamed to drive my kiddie clown car to work. A MAZDA would fit in so much better with the BMWs, MBs, Audis, Acuras, and Porsches driven by management. What ever will I do???


How can you say that about the rx8 without testdriving all those lovely automobiles. It's probably true but nothing counts without a test drive, as I've been told.

How can you say that about the rx8 without testdriving all those lovely automobiles. It's probably true but nothing counts without a test drive, as I've been told.

I've been in all of them except the Bentley (and you don't need to be in one to comment on its exterior styling) and the Bugatti.

Now that I am a Senior Systems Engineer at a large multinational corporation, I feel ashamed to drive my kiddie clown car to work. A MAZDA would fit in so much better with the BMWs, MBs, Audis, Acuras, and Porsches driven by management. What ever will I do???

Actually, you should keep your toy for the track and get a grown-up car for a daily driver. I think you getting a BMW, Benz, Audi or Porsche is a great idea......not the Acura though, it's a luxury car pretender.

I've been in all of them except the Bentley (and you don't need to be in one to comment on its exterior styling) and the Bugatti.


You've been in a Ferrari F430?? I'm jealous.

You've been in a Ferrari F430?? I'm jealous.

Oops, I lied. I haven't been in a 430, just a 360. I've only seen a 430.

Oops, I lied. I haven't been in a 430, just a 360. I've only seen a 430.

Alight then, we have to disqualify the 430.

Actually, you should keep your toy for the track and get a grown-up car for a daily driver. I think you getting a BMW, Benz, Audi or Porsche is a great idea......not the Acura though, it's a luxury car pretender.

Why get one of those? The RX-8 is so much more superior. I guess I never should've gotten rid of my Porsche or BMW for a car that I can drive to work in any weather, take to the drag strip (and do very well), then go autocrossing (and do very well), then to Watkins Glen (and do very well), then out on the town for an evening.

If we are talking about corporate cars, and the employer is fitting the bill for the car payment, neither the RX-8 or STI work. The RX-8 may have an edge because it looks more mature, but in my experience the employer will promptly tell you to spend their money on a 5 Series or E Class, instead.

Why get one of those? The RX-8 is so much more superior. I guess I never should've gotten rid of my Porsche or BMW for a car that I can drive to work in any weather, take to the drag strip (and do very well), then go autocrossing (and do very well), then to Watkins Glen (and do very well), then out on the town for an evening.


You'll never hear me say that the RX8, or any Mazda product for that matter, is superior to BMW, Benz, Audi, or Porsche. Mazda is what it is, a mid-level brand. I mean come on....the most expensive car they offer is less than $40K USD. Subaru and Mitsu are in the same catagory.....they make mid-level cars. If you are comparing what you own to your success in life, then Mazda tells me that you are not very successful. I own a Mazda....so I am included in that group. Now, the obvious exception to that rule is if you own several cars and the RX8 is one of them.

I find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum would have purchased the RX8 if they could afford a ZO6. The same goes for EVO and STI.....if they could afford a RS4 or RS6, that is what they'd have. I can tell you that as I gain success in life, I will probably not include Mazda vehicles in my future shopping list.....unless they have a $50K RX7 deriviative with at least 400whp.

^^^
I don't completely agree with that. Like with Nisssan and the Z following, there are many rotorheads out there that will get any rotary powered car that Mazda sells. Even if they can afford a Z06. It may be a small percentage, but this group isn't concerned with brand names and status symbols. And there have been many new members on here that have gone from M3s, and in some cases 911s.

Holy thread resurection batmen!

You'll never hear me say that the RX8, or any Mazda product for that matter, is superior to BMW, Benz, Audi, or Porsche. Mazda is what it is, a mid-level brand.

Guess you haven't been around the past couple days. Note all the WRX/STi/Evo thread resurrections (courtesy of DARKMAZ8). I'm pretty much making fun of roaddemon, who thinks the RX-8 is some kind of ultra-luxury supercar that impresses all who manage to behold it while cruising down the street and that the WRX/STi/Evo are worthless pieces of crap that no one would ever buy because who would want to be seen in those? Also note that he has never set foot in an STi or Evo, so he is basically talking out of his ass.

Look guys, we need to get to the bottom of this. I'm writing a research paper about 9k rpm drops and titty twisties. So far the 8 owns everything and I'm sick of sti/evo guys trying to say different. I will grave dig every possible thread until I am totally conviced that the 8 is and always will be the king of purest sportest carsest.

Guess you haven't been around the past couple days. Note all the WRX/STi/Evo thread resurrections (courtesy of DARKMAZ8). I'm pretty much making fun of roaddemon, who thinks the RX-8 is some kind of ultra-luxury supercar that impresses all who manage to behold it while cruising down the street and that the WRX/STi/Evo are worthless pieces of crap that no one would ever buy because who would want to be seen in those? Also note that he has never set foot in an STi or Evo, so he is basically talking out of his ass.

No,no, eric . You are grossly over exagerating my thoughts. I also have learned so much and everthing I need to know about the sti and evo from you and our good friend Ike who also frequents this fine forum with such wise and wonderfull moderators. Who protect us from each other wink,wink. :wavey:

Look guys, we need to get to the bottom of this. I'm writing a research paper about 9k rpm drops and titty twisties. So far the 8 owns everything and I'm sick of sti/evo guys trying to say different. I will grave dig every possible thread until I am totally conviced that the 8 is and always will be the king of purest sportest carsest.

roaddemon knows everything you will ever need to know. Maybe you can hire him as a guest lecturer to present your paper to your class. The other students in the class will be in awe hearing statements like "The RX-8 (4-door 4-seater) is a pure sports car" and "Nobody would want a 300hp RX-8 because that is kill power".

^^^
I don't completely agree with that. Like with Nisssan and the Z following, there are many rotorheads out there that will get any rotary powered car that Mazda sells. Even if they can afford a Z06. It may be a small percentage, but this group isn't concerned with brand names and status symbols. And there have been many new members on here that have gone from M3s, and in some cases 911s.


I would agree that there is a subsection of RX8 owners what purchased the RX8 purely to have Mazda's latest Rotary.....but I think that is a small subsection. I love rotary engines as well....and later in life when I have large amounts of disposable income...I would love to have a project car with a 3-rotor powerplant. But I and others really only purchased/leased the RX8 because it was the nicest sports car we could find for around $30K. If I could have afforded a $40K sports car....then I would have purchased a C6 Vette.

And most of the members going from M3's and 911's owned older versions of both models. I haven't seen one member say they traded in a 2004/5 M3 or 2003/up 911 for an RX8.

roaddemon knows everything you will ever need to know. Maybe you can hire him as a guest lecturer to present your paper to your class. The other students in the class will be in awe hearing statements like "The RX-8 (4-door 4-seater) is a pure sports car" and "Nobody would want a 300hp RX-8 because that is kill power".


YES,YES I would love to be a guest lecturer at the class paper presentation. I would quote Mr. eric and others like him, extensively, Because they are experts from which I've learned well. I have test drove nothing and know nothing. But I now feel learned and an expert too. So I hope their motoring spirit will guide me through the answer and question period. I will report back here a rosy report how they all agree the rx8 is the most wonderful car on earth. I may even let them test look my car after the leture. After all they are young and need proper quidence before test driving one.

^^^You are so right....you don't need to drive these cars(sti/evo) to know they suck. Same thing as jumping off a cliff. We don't need to experience that to understand it would suck......same theory.

as for my presentation, I would be honored if you would share your feelings toward the sti/evo and enhance the other students about the gr8ness of the 8.

^^^You are so right....you don't need to drive these cars(sti/evo) to know they suck. Same thing as jumping off a cliff. We don't need to experience that to understand it would suck......same theory.

as for my presentation, I would be honored if you would share your feelings toward the sti/evo and enhance the other students about the gr8ness of the 8.


Sir, it would be my pleasure. I have so much to share with them.

ttt

I wouldn't mind getting an evo if the dealers weren't such assholes.

I wouldn't mind getting an evo if the dealers weren't such assholes.

That does seem to be common with Mitsu dealers. Shortly after the STi and Evo came out (both in mid 2003), I went over to the Mitsu dealer (mind you, I drove up in a BMW Z3) and they told me no test drives without a deposit and I would be paying MSRP + a $5000 markup. Screw that. Drove down the road to the Subie dealership, hopped in an STi, negotiated the price, and bought it the next day.

That does seem to be common with Mitsu dealers. Shortly after the STi and Evo came out (both in mid 2003), I went over to the Mitsu dealer (mind you, I drove up in a BMW Z3) and they told me no test drives without a deposit and I would be paying MSRP + a $5000 markup. Screw that. Drove down the road to the Subie dealership, hopped in an STi, negotiated the price, and bought it the next day.

There were Subaru dealers doing the same thing. Though in general it seems Subaru handled the release better than Mitsubishi since they had somewhat gone through it already with the WRX. Luckily my dealer is very mod friendly and is one of the 3 dealerships in the country that offer the BR320 and BR350, and they come with a full warranty. The owner of the dealership and 5 other people that work there all drive modded Evos, very cool guys and bigtime car enthusiasts.

Sthubaru Sth.T.I. isth the besth car. All my boyfriendsth have sthubarus!!!! Eric I'll be home late.

:kissthes: