i go to start my car today and it starts up like normal then dies..now i cant get my car started, everytime i turn the key the thing wont even attempt to start..this is rediculous, how can this happen to a brand new car??? My first impressions about this car are starting to change for the worse, how reliable is this thing?

flooded? <eerie music in the background>

are you kidding me....i haven't done anything to this car, i've been driving normal as the day i bought it, i just went outside 5 min ago to go out and this just randomly happened...wht could have caused this

I suggest you contact your dealer and have it checked by the local techs there. Be sure to ask for a rental while they have the car

damm thats sucks, i hope u get it fixed

yea i called the dealer, they said they'll send someone to pick it up....great not even 3 months into my purchase and the cars already in the living in the shop...

ok aparently mazda said that its my fault it flooded because at night before i shut my car off i should rev my engine till its really hot so it wont flood......do all of you do this???

JmurphRx8, yes indeed I do that. I never shut the car until car is warm, and I always rev it up before I shut it off. However it is not your fault, i started doing this shortly after I got the car, and after I read so much about the subject in this forum. No one at Mazda ever mentioned this to me. I have lodged an official complaint to Mazda as I can not believe a new 2004 car floods. What happen if you shut the car accidently , or the parking attenndant never followed your instructions. It sucks. Call & write Mazda and complain. The good news they are aware of it, and covering it under warranty.
Mark

yea but usually after i drive my car its warmed up neways

That sucks dude. So did you let it warm up the night before or did you shut it off cold. I haven't been reving, just making sure the temp gauge was in the middle. These issues are really starting to make me nervous. I'd hate to think I could let it warm up properly and it could still flood, fun factor is great but it doesn't do much good if this car doesn't have the reliability to be a daily driver. Please someone help ease my fears here.

yea of course i shut the car off warmed up..i never just start my car and shut it off.. i mean the engine only takes a a couple min to warm up...i was driving all night so its not like i shut it off cold...it def sux tho because i havent done anything bad to my car at all...i treat the thing like my baby, i always check my oil, never put alot of stress on it, I dont even drive it hard..this seems to becoming a major problem with this car...i've read so many posts on this subject and never expected it to happen to me, espically since i take such good care of it.

There are those who suggest not to baby this engine. There is some merit to that. The auxiliary intake ports don't open until high (don't know exactly what number) RPMs, so the engine doesn't fully breathe, so to speak, unless you drive it a little harder. If you keep it at lower RPMs all the time, won't the mixture always be richer and hence foul your plugs sooner?

I'm taking delivery of mine in a few weeks, so I'm definitely curious to get some sort of guidance on this myself.

Originally posted by JmurphRx8
My first impressions about this car are starting to change for the worse, how reliable is this thing?


Ok, let's not jump to conclusions. First of all, flooding is a rotary engine phenomenon. It has been happening to us rotorheads for many years. However, it can be 100% avoided. Educate, educate, educate !!!! Read and immerse yourself in others' knowledge. Spend some time on the 7 forum.......

I used to flood my 2nd gen 7 all the time until I figured out what I was doing wrong. As long as you properly maintain the car, the only reason it will flood is due to OPERATOR ERROR. Now think about that one real hard.

Be respectul of your motor, but don't baby it. I have crammed 17k miles on my 8 since 8-5-03 and have not flooded it once. Just read, learn some pointers, be smart and you will have no trouble whatsoever.

Regards,
Ryan

PS - PLEASE, EVERYONE STOP FREAKING OUT ABOUT THIS CAR.....YOU'RE JUST GIVING THE NEYSAYERS AMMO.... AND THEY DON'T KNOW WTH THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT !!!!

Originally posted by JmurphRx8
ok aparently mazda said that its my fault it flooded because at night before i shut my car off i should rev my engine till its really hot so it wont flood......do all of you do this???

It's not your fault, and they need to cover it. Do you have an auto? If that's a dumb question, please forgive me because I don't remember what everyone has.

Last mont h I went out to the garage started the car and let it warm up for about 5 min. As soon as I cave it gas it stalled and would not restart. Had to wait 2 hours for the flatbed then 2 days in the shop to change plugs and oil. From that day as soon as it fires up I rev it to 7000 and do the same before I turn it off. haden't had a problem since

Glad I'm part of this forum.... I would have flooded my car months ago had I not joined this forum...

Like everyone is saying, follow those rules of thumb and you'll never have the problem

Bingo, I think getting those auxiliary ports open makes a big difference. Leaving it to idle doesn't do much good warming up the engine, because there is very little resistance (i.e., it's not in gear, so the engine is doing relatively little work, and therefore generating relatively little heat) Driving it 2 minutes is better than letting it idle for 10 IMO.

Also, people with automatics seem to be having more trouble- I'm guessing since they 1) they don't rev it as much, and 2, they have 2 fewer intake ports, they run richer mixtures that foul the plugs sooner. Am I talking out of my a$% here or do you guys think there may be something to that?

Originally posted by XUrotaryrocket
As long as you properly maintain the car, the only reason it will flood is due to OPERATOR ERROR. Now think about that one real hard.

Be respectul of your motor, but don't baby it. I have crammed 17k miles on my 8 since 8-5-03 and have not flooded it once. Just read, learn some pointers, be smart and you will have no trouble whatsoever.



I've seen a lot of posts like this, but what exactly is it you are and are not supposed to do. The RX8 is first on my list to replace my MX6, but I do need a reliable every day car. Suppose a valet brings it out from a parking space then shuts it off?

M. Reilly

Originally posted by mfreilly
I've seen a lot of posts like this, but what exactly is it you are and are not supposed to do. The RX8 is first on my list to replace my MX6, but I do need a reliable every day car. Suppose a valet brings it out from a parking space then shuts it off?

M. Reilly

Solution for avoiding idiot valet parking attendants : don't valet your car

2 things that i do that may/may not be necessary
1-always warm up the engine before driving
2-always let the engine idle for 30-60 seconds before shutting off

Major Pointers
-good gas
-don't bog the motor
-"exercise" the motor
-always allow the engine to run for a few minutes after starting (especially on cold start) before shutting off
-never rev the engine then immediately shut it off (let it idle again for a few moments)

as i understand it - rotaries, unlike piston poppers, dump more fuel into the combustion chambers upon startup. this is the main reason why we must give the engine time to burn off the excess fuel before shutting down

for RX-7's
-frequent spark plug changes (every 15k miles) (time will tell if this is applicable to the 8)

also, i've read that "weak" batteries are contributing to the flood problem. although i think this is not a huge issue - it's a small price to pay to upgrade the batt. and have peace of mind

I might have missed something..... so anyone feel free to add to the list

Originally posted by XUrotaryrocket
-never rev the engine then immediately shut it off (let it idle again for a few moments)



This goes completely against what Mazda suggests to avoid flooding. They say rev the engine to 4000rpm for (I believe) 10 seconds and immediately shut it off, letting it rev down without gas pumping into the chamber. This should clear excess fuel from the chamber.

Makes sense to me.

yup i heard all this today from mazda...thanx

Originally posted by loco4rx8
This goes completely against what Mazda suggests to avoid flooding. They say rev the engine to 4000rpm for (I believe) 10 seconds and immediately shut it off, letting it rev down without gas pumping into the chamber. This should clear excess fuel from the chamber.

Makes sense to me.


OK, you go try that a few times and lemme know how you make out ;)

After letting it run for a few moments......revving up to 3-4k rpms will clear the excess gas. After that let it calm down at idle for another few moments then shut off. Don't just rev and then shut down instantaneously.

I'm just speaking from 10 years of experience and 6 rotary cars here..... take what I say as you will.

Regards,
Ryan

I have tried it and haven't flooded the car yet. All I'm saying is Mazda disagrees with you.

Originally posted by JmurphRx8
everytime i turn the key the thing wont even attempt to start..

From what i understand if you flood it, and then try to start it, the engine would 'attempt' to start but just wouldn't actually start.

Now you're saying it "wont even attempt to start". Looks like this may be an electrical/starter problem since the engine is not even turning.

when i start my 8 i just let it sit until the rpm settles down at a comfortable 1100 or so then i start driving it. before i shut it off i usually let it idle for a little bit. maybe i'll start revving it to 4k rpm before i shut it off, but i've had absolutely no problems with starting the car so far, and i've had the car for almost half a year.

the bigger issue here is why is there such a problem to begin with?

frankly, this is stupid...

rev your engine before shutoff? use good gas? dont use high octane? dont valet park? let it idle? seven rmps before shutdown?

come on...instead of doing these stupid things we should all sign a petition...

if this flooding issue was a normal occurence for the rx7, to think that in 2004 mazda would have already fixed the problem

oh, by the way, would anyone like to venture a guess as to the number of 8 owners out there that god forbid, drive the 8 like a normal car without any of the 'precautions' and have had no problems with whatsoever?

does 50% sound high?

anyone want to venture a guess?

Originally posted by fietguy
the bigger issue here is why is there such a problem to begin with?

frankly, this is stupid...

rev your engine before shutoff? use good gas? dont use high octane? dont valet park? let it idle? seven rmps before shutdown?

come on...instead of doing these stupid things we should all sign a petition...

if this flooding issue was a normal occurence for the rx7, to think that in 2004 mazda would have already fixed the problem

I agree about the petition. In fact I may look into it tomorrow after work if nobody else has. This is my first car that I picked out and I really wanted to get something super fun to drive that could be reliable for years since I'm graduating from college in the in May. Now going in, I understood, the mpg weren't great, and that the rotary eats oil. But this flooding stuff is seriously scaring me. I know some people are really thrilled now that they know it is under warranty and all. But answer me this, what happens when you hit 50,001 miles and it floods, how much are they gonna charge to fix it. If you plan on owning the car for 100k or more miles a few floods not under warranty would add up real quick. Maybe I'm being paranoid and somebody can ease my fears. But right now I just hoping that in 2-3 years I won't look back and wish I would've gone with an rsx or a tsx which would've lacked some of the fun factor, but I doubt I'd be seriously freaking out right now over my car dying somewhere leaving me stranded and embarassed cause the 1st car I ever picked out has to be towed with an extremely low amount of miles. In closing let me say I always let my car warm up properly before shutdown and if for some reason it floods anyway like it sounds happened in the thread starters case, my dealer and mazda will never hear the end of it.

I had a 6 speed for about 4 months and did nothing other than make sure I didnt turn it off cold, and never had a problem.

When I first got mine in December, I would let it run 3 or 4 minutes before engaging the transmission. Now that I'm used to the MT and know I won't kill the darn thing as I let out the clutch-pedal in first, I just crank it and drive. What I do NOT do is kill it cold. I've never revved it at shut-off and don't plan to start until I see such a recommendation (along with procedures) in writing from Mazda. So far - so good....

Here goes, my first post! Hope nobody gets upset...
Flooding on rotaries has always been an 'issue', more so on the Renesis engine because it doesn't have the peripheral exhaust port to get rid of that excessive fuel.
Listen to what Mazda and those on this board recommend about preventing flooding, it is all excellent advice, and will enable you to enjoy your car withouth worrying about being stranded.
Tell Mazda about any inconvenience flooding may have caused you, with as much detail as possible (not a petition, spare me!). Their job is to make you happy, without happy customers they do not have a future.
I'm sure Mazda will find a way to make life easier for all present and potential 8 owners in the ner future.

Originally posted by ByeByeSaturn

Also, people with automatics seem to be having more trouble- I'm guessing since they 1) they don't rev it as much, and 2, they have 2 fewer intake ports, they run richer mixtures that foul the plugs sooner. Am I talking out of my a$% here or do you guys think there may be something to that?

During normal driving conditiond the A/T shifts and cruses in the lower RPM s. I suspect the people that do not redline once in a while are more likely the ones that have fowled plugs and flooded.
My wife babies our 8 during the week and I "tune it up" on the weekends.;)

Originally posted by JmurphRx8
i go to start my car today and it starts up like normal then dies..now i cant get my car started, everytime i turn the key the thing wont even attempt to start..this is rediculous, how can this happen to a brand new car??? My first impressions about this car are starting to change for the worse, how reliable is this thing?

Jmurph, reading through this thread, it sounds like the previous evening you shut the engine down warm. The fact that you can flood it after a warm shutdown is new. Also, the fact that it stalled on its own AFTER you already got it started is bizarre. No way should the dealer have told you you screwed up.

Did you try the emergency start procedure? It seems to me that if you got it started once, you should have been able to get it started again if you crank it with the fuel turned off.

I still didn't catch whether you have an automatic.

How cold was it when you had this event? You don't list your location.

Make sure the dealer gives you the hotter plugs.

Let us know how it turns out, please. Thx

I had mine for only 2 days when I stalled 30 miles from town out in BFE! The problem, A bad fuel gauge-gasket-hose-fuel pump! What a way to make the change to Mazda! The car was in the shop for the third/fourth day of ownership. The car is back and runs like a champ. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens to a few of you here. Check with your dealership and ask if this has happened to anyone else. The funny thing is that I just purchased a cell phone a week prior to it breaking down. That save my ass!

Prior to getting my 8 last month, I owned an '89 RX-7. 14+ years, 250,110 miles. Never any serious trouble or shop time, except 1 occurrence of a "flood" in the 10th year. Started it cold to move it into the garage, and immediatly shut off. Would not restart all weekend. Sent to shop to resolve. They determined it was flooded, and had it back to me in 2 hours.

Never shut it down cold again, and it never happened again.

Jeff

Since many people have noted that they reflashed the ECM chips at the port allegedly to make the catalytic convertor last longer by running cooler but richer. Richer mix = more of a chance to foul the plugs, right? When the dealerships handle the flooding and "reflash the ECM" are they just putting it back to the original setting? Has anyone still had the flooding after their dealership did this?

The flashing was supposed to change the fuel mapping program to accomplish this. That is like changing a few lines of code in a program while you're at the CD duplication house about to ship it out to all the electronic chain stores.

Bad idea - I've been at companies that have done it and rarely seen it work out for the best. Usually you make a certain group happy (like the execs who had bonuses riding on a delivery date) but usually what happens is the company spends many times more than it expected supporting a product that is half baked. Plus the bad word-of-mouth scares away potential customers for the other models that might have absolutely zero problems.

Mazda can say all they want, but what I really think happened is that they pulled a Microsoft and patched a program without fully testing out what the change would do in the real world. I'm sure there are tons of memos or e-mails where some head of Engineering had to defend the situation for this extra step at the docks and that it would be no big deal.

This thread is starting to get a little off track -
Jmurph, if you are still following this thread can you answer bernieunger's question about whether this happened while the engine was warm? You've got me interested too.

JeagerNH, can you tell me where the port PCM reflash story came from? I have done a search of the forum but can't find anything specific. It concerns me that such a story may be circulating with no real evidence.

Thanks.

Mr M.

To find out more simply use the search feature with the keywords "port campaign". It will turn up the following gem I found from 9/2003 by astrlsrfr:

"The ECU is a microprocessor & memory to manage the engine. It has software which can be "flashed" or programmed into it. By changing the program (aka firmware, or flash image), we can easily change the way the engine runs.

I'm just speculating on the cause of our poor MPG issue, unfortunately. But, from all the reading and chatting I've done, this seems like the most plausible theory:

0. RX-8s have been flashed with ECU code from the factory (say, v1.0 )
1. Boats of RX-8s start showing up in US ports.
2. EPA, US Customs, or some other government entity stops shipment due to emissions being too high
3. Mazda, in a panic, quickly puts together a new ECU flash image (say, v 1.1) which alters intake / exhaust timings, etc.
4. Those cars which get the new images are allowed to ship.
5. Shortly thereafter, Mazda realizes the new ECU code has bugs - leading to poor fuel economy
6. They then do another ECU build (say v1.2) which still meets emissions, but has improved fuel economy, etc.
7. Thereafter, all 8s get the corrected ECU code.
8. Mazda then realizes there has been a power loss associated with the latest code.
9. Mazda issues buyback program & restates power levels.

If you look under your hood, you should see the port campaign number where the ECU code was altered. Because of the randomness of the places to which the cars shipped, the VIN ranges would not necessarily have to be in order. ie, some earlier VINs may have arrived after some later VINS. So, we can't really use VIN ranges to know whose car has what code. What we really need is a way read the version straight out of the ECU. This prolly requires a special tool of some sort."

Or this from mkoll on http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?14@250.o9ENcWsLle5.8@.ef067e7/1291

"If neither of those conditions apply, there was a "port campaign" to reprogram the ECUs on early North American 8s (as noted by a "port campaign" sticker under the hood. The reason for reprogrammed ECUs on the early American RX8 deliveries was the fact that Mazda was concerned that the catalytic converters which gather moren than 100K miles may or may not pass the stringent Califonia emmissions. They don't know for a fact if they would fail, either. To be on the safe side, they reprogrammed the ECUs to guarantee the usefullness of the CATs past 100K miles. This, in turn, caused the HP claims to be restated (didn't affect the performance figures by the trade rags since the test cars had the reprogrammed ECUs). The reprogrammed ECUs caused the EVAP units to give off the wrong emmissions readings and the CEL to come on (that's what happened to mine). The solution was to put new EVAP units in the cars. If your VIN was affected, there's a TSB your dealer should have on how to fix."

To add to this I don't think that it was CA. emissions laws. I believe that it was the EPA II standards that were released for 2004 cars but (unlike previous standards) also affected cars that would be sold in 2003 as a 2004 model year. That is the rumor as I understand it. I didn't know about the sticker though and I will be looking for it now.

Sorry guys, too much assumption and not enough fact here for me. I'm signing off this thread. I read the other threads on the port campaign subject and all that came out of that was cross-eyes for me and what appears to be a new dipstick (metophorically) for customers. Everything else was heresay, nothing about emissions except clearance between sensors and the body of the vehicle. If you are interested in what your port campaign stickers mean, ask your dealer and post the results on a new thread. I'm interested.

Just when it gets good *poof* he's gone...

Hi Guys this is my first posting in this forum.
I watch this forum since 3 weeks every day to be up to date
I came from old Europe near Zuerich.
I have watch since 1 month every German speaking Forum regarding RX8 on the web to.The German and Swiss forums.
Now i came to the point.
I have not see any any flooding issue here in the German speaking part of Europe .
Here in Switzerland we have cold temperatures around 19.5 degree Fahrenheit today.and no startproblems and floodings at all nowhere.It also have not much to do with revving the engine lot more becouse the Autobahn.Here in Switzerland is the speedlimit on the highway 75 Mile so maybee we drive 80
you can loose very easy your driverlicense here at 93 miles you loose your license for three month and the penalty is around 6000$ so we do not drive quick here.
So i wold realy say that the flooding issue have to do something with the fuel mappings.

Thanks Zbee,

That's good to know. It's only us poor bastards here in North America.

Dealer and owners manual state this very clearly. Run the car until warm, then shut off.

With cars sitting on the lot needing to be moved every once in awile, we have never had any problems with them flooding. For the guy that starts his car every day for 5 mins is an idiot no matter what he is driving.. That is doing more damage than good. If the car is new, more than likely you havent broken it is yet. The car doesnt know who the boss is yet, drive the car.

Guys/ladies....get the loner...it is free and dont except anything less than what you are driving. Dont take their bullshit, the sale is not over till you sell the car. If some comes into my show room and has a problem with their rx-8 (luckily we have awesome predriven cars, i will not hesitate to put them in our used M3 or audi A6 3.0) I am not PROMOTING. Just tell you not to settle for a hyundai or geo prism.

joe

Originally posted by fietguy
oh, by the way, would anyone like to venture a guess as to the number of 8 owners out there that god forbid, drive the 8 like a normal car without any of the 'precautions' and have had no problems with whatsoever?

does 50% sound high?

anyone want to venture a guess?

personally, during the first week I've stalled it after letting it run for 2 mins in the morning. Other times I've started it, backed up, stalled it and restarted cold no probs at all. So yes I think 50% does seem high