Alright guys, Im bringing this topic up to clarify some issues that many have brought up or falsely assumed so..

It is true that Ford Motor Co. owns Mazda Co. , however that doenst mean Mazda is equivalent to Ford.

There are only two cars in the Mazda lineup that are built by Ford Plants which are the Tribute and B Series Truck

The RX8 is NOT built by FOrd and FORD HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT AT ALL !!!!

Im so tired of the dumb remarks, its like saying Chryslers are Mercedes which we all know they are NOT !!!

However technically, Chrysler is OWNED by Mercedes . Come on people please, if I hear another person tell me that Mazda is Ford, Im going to shoot them seriously..

=) ok maybe not, but dont tempt me ..

Z

No one has said that to me yet, but I think I would want to shoot them, too if they said my 8 is a Ford!!

I believe Ford only owns 34% of Mazda. That said, the two do have a joint venture called AutoAlliance, which operates the manufacturing plant in Flat Rock, Michigan.

Correct winter. Take a look at your vent covers and then look at a Ford's vent covers... They do share some parts and technology. But they are not the same cars. They have different R&D and different plants make most of the cars. Ours is made almost exclusively in Japan.

I tell people mine is a Mitsubishi! Since Mazda use to be a division of Mitsu that is...

j/k

Originally posted by RX8Z
Alright guys, Im bringing this topic up to clarify some issues that many have brought up or falsely assumed so..

It is true that Ford Motor Co. owns Mazda Co. , however that doenst mean Mazda is equivalent to Ford.

There are only two cars in the Mazda lineup that are built by Ford Plants which are the Tribute and B Series Truck

The RX8 is NOT built by FOrd and FORD HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT AT ALL !!!!

Im so tired of the dumb remarks, its like saying Chryslers are Mercedes which we all know they are NOT !!!

However technically, Chrysler is OWNED by Mercedes . Come on people please, if I hear another person tell me that Mazda is Ford, Im going to shoot them seriously..

=) ok maybe not, but dont tempt me ..

Z

I recall everyone pointing out it was not a Ford when asked, and actually, since you mention it, a lot of new Chryslers are in fact Mercedes. ;)

Crossfire and 300C are Chrysler bodies on previous generation platforms. This is a good thing, but there is as much Mercedes as Chrysler in there.

What really cracks me up is when a 350Z owner laughs at the Rx-8 because its a "Ford".

Anyone know why that is REALLY funny?

I feel you man...I hate the fact that Ford even owns a part of Mazda. The 6 is a great car, but the fact that it is using a modifed Tarus motor and who know's what else, makes me dislke it. Also the Tribute...it's crap. I hate Ford and all the other domestics.

Chryslers are Mercedes? What are you smoking crack ? =)

Sharing platforms do not depict that the quality and make are the same. Many auto manufacters share alot of technology including platforms with each other, but what really counts is the end product...

Ford is crappy simple as that. As for the Z owners, truth is they cant say anything else so they gotta dig deep to get an insult out at least... Nothing against the Z, i think its a great style and engine, though i think Nissan skimped out on the interior details and not to mention the over abundance of plastic..

SEriously ask any Z owner, how does it feel to drive a Z being surrounded with nothing but PLastic. They cant even make the DVD nav cover correctly, have any of you's seen a Z inside..??

the reason its funny that a 350Z owner calls the Rx-8 a "Ford" is that Renault owns Nissan.

Remember "Le Car" and the "Alliance"

LOL Oh Yeah! Le Z?

There are only two cars in the Mazda lineup that are built by Ford Plants which are the Tribute and B Series Truck...

also i think there are some mazda cars sharing the same platform as the ford as well? i believe it was the mazda3 sharing the ford focus. so technically underneath its a ford with a different design and mazda emblem on it...?

Actually that is incorrect, Renault doesn not own nissan, and Nissan does not own Renault

What they have is a alliance where each have stock shares of each others company.

They did this strategically to strengthem themselves against competitors in the market..

Renault saved nissan the same way ford saved mazda.

That can always be debated, different markets yield different factors and results...

But I have one thing to say, thank god were not Mitsu.. is that company going out of business yet?? =)

I've heard the same arguement, it's insulting!

mazda6 has the body of the jaguer x type and the ford made in europe. ford controls mazda because mazda had no money to pay there banksin the 90's . ford had and still has the most stock in mazda so when the bank took over they didn't know how to run it so they gave ford all the power to conrol it. Chrysler OWNED Mercedes.

My father is a Chrysler dealer (just so no one thinks I love Fords)
Have you seen the new Jaguar coupe prototype?
Looks a whole lot like the RX-8. Ford owns - or atleast some - of Jaguar. Clearly there is some sharing.
Mercedes has made the new Chryslers much better.
What about the new Ford GT?
If they say the RX-8 is a Ford, they are confused - and for the most part wrong.

Just because ford owns a company does not mean that it is crap. Ford owns Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover, Mazda, Aston Martin. These companies are doing much better after Ford bought them.

The Chrysler Crossfire uses a Mercedes chassis, engine, and transmission!

The Mazda 6 uses the a modified Duratec engine.

The Mazda 3 is a new platform to be shared with the next generation Focus (I don't think it is based off the current one).

We are going to see more and more crossing over between all manufacturers. Imagine a GT40 crossover with a 4 rotor supercharged Renesis... hmmmm RX-40?

Originally posted by RX8Z
[B Nothing against the Z, i think its a great style and engine, though i think Nissan skimped out on the interior details and not to mention the over abundance of plastic..

SEriously ask any Z owner, how does it feel to drive a Z being surrounded with nothing but PLastic. They cant even make the DVD nav cover correctly, have any of you's seen a Z inside..?? [/B]

I own an 04 Z and admit the interior is crap compared to the 8. But, what are you surrounded by in the 8? Errr.. plastic as well.

As for the nav door/cover, it's been changed on 04s. Gone is the weird and awkward to close door on the 03s. It's motorized for people w/nav systems now. The non-nav door now just flips up and sticks out quite a ways and is much easier to close now.

Yup, to add to renesis_turbo's list. The replacement for the Taurus will be the Futura which is based on the 6 platform.

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/96999/page004.html

The Crossfire is a hardtop SLK for $10k less. It is built in Germany. How Mercedes can you get? This is a good thing. The new SLK on a newer platform will be out soon.

The 300C uses tranny, steering, seat structure, electronics, suspension components, and basic design all from the E Class. This is a really cool car coming out. Sad it took the Germans to build a proper American sedan.

The RX-8 and Miata, the cars that matter, are all Mazda. :)

The new Mazda 3 is definitely the next generation Focus platform to be used on the next Volvo S40 as well.

Ford generally only provides money and parts to its different divisions. They still get to control their own fate. Mazda has done a great job of asserting itself as driver focused.

Ever notice how every company Ford owns makes great cars except Ford itself? :confused:

there are angles in RX8 similar to the 99-2004 mustangs

"there are angles in RX8 similar to the 99-2004 mustangs"

hehe... i thought it was just me!!! I noticed that too - though I really dislike all mustang designs (much prefer the classic camero style) though I really dig the RX8.... most similar lines on the RX8 are the better ones :)

Folks, doing a little research isn't that hard...

Renault owns a controlling stake in Nissan (36.8%), therefore, for all intents and purposes, Nissan becomes part of Renault's resource pool.

Likewise can be said about Ford, who owns the controlling stake in Mazda, 33.4% to be exact.

taken from:
http://www.autocluster.com/autobrands/index.html#N

The RX-8 was designed in Japan, engineered in Japan, and is built in Japan.

The 350Z on the other hand was designed in America by a guy who drove an Audi TT (Ajay Panchal)... 'nuff said.

rx8 wouldn't be here if it wasn't for ford. i highly doubt mazda would have made it through had ford not stepped in helped them out financially. what good is talent if not given the possibility?

I dont understand all this debate. everyting said, doesnt mean anyting because fact is fact..

Rx8 is here. done

Rx8 is built in Japan, delivered from Japan made by Mazda factories. done

Other than that, nothing said above can be proven.

Misc. arguments.. yes an Rx8 is surrounded by plastic, but come on man. be real, shape and form and design , creates an atmosphere of substance. Touch the buttons, feel the panels, move the parts around.. and you clearly can see that Nissan did a half ass job on the Z, of course you own the car so naturally you will be defensive but dont be. I love the Z, all im saying is that Nissan shouldve done a better job on the inside.. but come to think about it.. Nissan has always seen their line as avergae, and only did a better than most job on the Infiniti's..

Have you ever sat inside an Accord ? You will see a whole new world and feel a much better quality inside and out.

Anyways, last debate.. who controls who. Let it be known guys that 33 % does not fully entitle you to full control of a company. I used to be a stock broker, and lets just say.. this are just numbers that both these manufacters came up with , assuming fair control and profit. If Renault really owned Nissan, they wouldnt call it an ALLIANCE. Also let it be known that Nissan controls 13.6% stake in Renault, not as much but Renault obviously isnt as large as Nissan...

As for Chrysler, I dont even want to touch that.. Chrysler has deals with BMW, Renault, Peugot, Ford, Madza, Mitsu.. and on and on..

Originally posted by RX8Z
Alright guys, Im bringing this topic up to clarify some issues that many have brought up or falsely assumed so..

It is true that Ford Motor Co. owns Mazda Co. , however that doenst mean Mazda is equivalent to Ford.

There are only two cars in the Mazda lineup that are built by Ford Plants which are the Tribute and B Series Truck

The RX8 is NOT built by FOrd and FORD HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT AT ALL !!!!

Im so tired of the dumb remarks, its like saying Chryslers are Mercedes which we all know they are NOT !!!

However technically, Chrysler is OWNED by Mercedes . Come on people please, if I hear another person tell me that Mazda is Ford, Im going to shoot them seriously..

=) ok maybe not, but dont tempt me ..

Z

Um foot in mouth disease... the Chrysler Crossfire is built on a Benz platform (CLK or SLK) and power by a Mercedes engine and transmission.

There is word that Ford will be using Mazda's small car plaform as the base for it's next gen small cars.

The radio system used in the 3, 6 and 8... where did it begin? The Ford Taurus, Focus... see pics of the 2005 Mustang... the stereo in it is exactly like the Mazda units... fully integrated.

Don't be naive... it only starts out as owned. For efficiency, cost savings... platforms are co-developed and shared. Certain parts bins are shared across... Ford group will never end up as bad a GM cars.. just rebadged POS, but there will definitely be some sharing... Jaguar S-type/ Lincoln LS... Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, Ford Mustang...

Guess who the head of Mazda is? A Ford Exec sent over to Hiroshima to run things... as was the last guy as well.

You tell me now... how little does Ford have to do with Mazda?

Originally posted by winter
I believe Ford only owns 34% of Mazda. That said, the two do have a joint venture called AutoAlliance, which operates the manufacturing plant in Flat Rock, Michigan.


Anyways, last debate.. who controls who. Let it be known guys that 33 % does not fully entitle you to full control of a company. I used to be a stock broker, and lets just say.. this are just numbers that both these manufacters came up with , assuming fair control and profit. If Renault really owned Nissan, they wouldnt call it an ALLIANCE. Also let it be known that Nissan controls 13.6% stake in Renault, not as much but Renault obviously isnt as large as Nissan...

Let me ask this first... how many "books" does accounting in Japan have? Got any idea?

Just because you were a stock broker in America means a total of Jack and Shit about business in Japan. The laws, rules and practices are entirely different... and learning them as an outsider that doesn't speak Japanese is nearly impossible. Good thing I speak Japanese then, eh?

In Japan owning in excess of 26%, I believe, qualifies as controlling interest. What ever the exact figure, it's less than 34%... So it doesn't matter if Renault gave Nissan a little bit of its stock... likely done because of stock valuation and price flux, not because it's a real alliance... the truth of the matter is as far as Japan and the Japanese are concerned Renault bought controlling interest of Nissan.

Renault's use of the term alliance... more than willing to be it's Renault trying to distance themselves from being seen as really taking over Nissan... they want it to see 100% Japanese still... better for sales.

Originally posted by 93rdcurrent
Correct winter. Take a look at your vent covers and then look at a Ford's vent covers... They do share some parts and technology. But they are not the same cars. They have different R&D and different plants make most of the cars. Ours is made almost exclusively in Japan.

Precisely the point of my previous posts. A Mazda is not a rebadged Ford (for most models, and especially the 8)... however the sharing of some technology and parts does occur and Ford does run Mazda's show....

Originally posted by zerobanger
What really cracks me up is when a 350Z owner laughs at the Rx-8 because its a "Ford".

Anyone know why that is REALLY funny?

Because they're driving the king of POS... Renault? :D

Originally posted by RX8Z
Actually that is incorrect, Renault doesn not own nissan, and Nissan does not own Renault

What they have is a alliance where each have stock shares of each others company.

They did this strategically to strengthem themselves against competitors in the market..

Who fed you that load of shit?

Let me tell you what the American news doesn't tell you...

Nissan was in worse than red ink... they was effectively bankrupt. At the last minute they tried cutting some labor force, but too little too late... they couldn't make their loan payment. That means bankrupt. They were OFFICIALLY... not secretly... officially looking for a buyer... GM has Mitsubishi and Ford, Mazda...so neither was interested. If I remember correctly DalmierChysler was approached, but turned them down. So crappy ass Renault stepped up to the plate and took one for the team. They put Gon in as President and kicked out a bunch of the old Japanese crew (they were worthless anyway). he closed factories (like Murayama, Saitama) and cut the labor force down a significant amount... got the company out of the red. He then got the company remaking its whole model line.. and here we are now. Unfortunately nearly every car they make JDM is butt ugly... the 350Z is borderline in my book. I'd take a G35 coupe instead.

And that is basically what happened.

Originally posted by AN5-23b
My father is a Chrysler dealer (just so no one thinks I love Fords)
Have you seen the new Jaguar coupe prototype?
Looks a whole lot like the RX-8. Ford owns - or atleast some - of Jaguar. Clearly there is some sharing.
Mercedes has made the new Chryslers much better.
What about the new Ford GT?
If they say the RX-8 is a Ford, they are confused - and for the most part wrong.

Ford owns Jag... another Mazda-type deal.

The Ford GT... what about it? It looks a lot like it's predecessor.

As much as there is sharing, influence and control...the RX-8 in overal design, platform and soul is all Mazda. No question.

Originally posted by zerobanger
the reason its funny that a 350Z owner calls the Rx-8 a "Ford" is that Renault owns Nissan.

Remember "Le Car" and the "Alliance"
More than that, I believe the 350Z's engine is basically a Renault design (albeit probably modified a fair bit).

Why all the Ford bashing? As a lifelong owner of all things Mustang, I am getting slightly annoyed. Not everything out of Ford is a POS. Not everything out of Mazda is an engineering marvel.

Stop bashing the Blue oval. Without Ford's part ownership, Mazda (and the RX-8) would not be here today.

the Mazda 6 also uses the Duratec engine block and is built in the US....

so I guess that makes 3 current production models that are built buy Ford plants.

My 626, the MX-6 and the Ford Probe are US-built clones. I do not believe the "A Mazda is Ford" coments are Mazda-bashing, as much as they are statements concerning a business relationship that has been around long enough that a Mazda owner ought to get used to it by now.

Why get upset about it?

Thank you Pirate Rex...

I'm a long time Mustang fan and owner. I do admit that Ford can't make a decent 4 cylinder engine and the Taurus is butt ugly... but the Mustang and Ford trucks are something that Ford does right.

Mazda had its share of crap too... as every automaker has (some... like Renault and Chrysler... more than others).

I think everyone here knows and admits that the RX-8 is hardly a "Ford." So what need is there for more bashing of Ford?

Originally posted by RX8Z
Anyways, last debate.. who controls who. Let it be known guys that 33 % does not fully entitle you to full control of a company. I used to be a stock broker, and lets just say.. this are just numbers that both these manufacters came up with , assuming fair control and profit.

I guess the above is a good example of why you used to be a stock broker - you have not got a clue about what you're talking about! Under Japanese law, owning more than 1/3 of the issued shares in a company gives full controlling interest. Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda, and therefore has full controlling interest. I don't know what that gibberish about "just numbers they came up with", as it has nothing to do with profit. Ford's controlling interest is why they control the Mazda board of directors, and why the previous 3 CEOs of Mazda were Americans from Ford. As noted, without Ford taking control in 1996, there would be no Mazda today, period.

Everyone, thank Ford for rescuing Mazda and making the RX-8 possible - and also make no mistake, Ford could have killed the RX-8 at any time that they wanted - if Ford had not been involved and approved of it, it wouldn't exist. Is that simple enough for the Ford haters to understand and maybe back off? ;)

Regards,
Gordon

I might have been a bit hard on Ford, but I just wish Ford NA would bring over the cars they sell in Europe which are great cars. Things like the Mondeo ST220, Puma, and Focus RS. These have all proven to be best in class so why try and reinvent the wheel?

Originally posted by murix
I might have been a bit hard on Ford, but I just wish Ford NA would bring over the cars they sell in Europe which are great cars. Things like the Mondeo ST220, Puma, and Focus RS. These have all proven to be best in class so why try and reinvent the wheel?

They tried - the Mondeo in it's prior generation was sold here as the Contour/Mystique. While it was very well received in Europe, it didn't sell all that well here in North America. Our SVT Contour was the Mondeo ST200. When the Mondeo was redesigned, Ford NA decided to convert the Kansas City factory to more profitable Escape SUV production. So, the reason we don't get the Mondeo ST220 is because North Americans basically didn't want to buy a quality compact sedan and preferred SUVs. Puma, too small for North America, Focus RS, too expensive when people start talking about HP numbers per $. North Americans are unique that way, in their focus on HP almost to the exclusion of all other performance considerations - look at the controversy in our own forum over the missing 9 hp! What's proven to be tops in sales in North America are SUVs like Explorers and bigger; they'd sell terribly in Europe. Different markets, and different market demands. Unfortunately for car enthusiasts, we live on the wrong continent.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by murix
I might have been a bit hard on Ford, but I just wish Ford NA would bring over the cars they sell in Europe which are great cars. Things like the Mondeo ST220, Puma, and Focus RS. These have all proven to be best in class so why try and reinvent the wheel?

Hey, even the people that like Ford have been saying that for awhile now. Before the Focus... the Cosworth RS Escort... same basic concept... AWD 225hp, and ouch was it quick.

As for the Mondeo.... as Gordon mentioned, they had brought it over, however, the American market didn't know a good thing when it was biting them in the ass. I got a test drive of one of these from a sales person I knew. She took myself and a friend over to a huge empty stadium parking lot and let us work it over. Bang for the buck... I'd have traded my 'Stang for a Contour SVT in 1999... too bad I came to Japan instead.

Who cares who is the parent company?

No one would ever declare the 8 a Ford, unless they're baiting you. Or unless they're blind and you honk your horn. That horn is ALL Ford. WHY, oh WHY?!?!

Wow guys, what do you guys do for a profession? Now suddenly you are all expert corporate analyst?

Im not even going to argue with some of you's because we are going beyond issues that neither of us can prove, except for what you read of course

As a matter of fact, I was a good f*cking broker till 9/11 when half my coworkers died, so dont even touch that topic. Im not here to insult you guys, so dont insult me.

Bottom line is, I am well aware of Renaults position in Nissan, but truthfully what it comes down to is regional offices. Theres Nissan of America, Nissan of Japan, Nissan of Europe and so forth.. Each region has its own line of management, all that make individual decisions based on factors like market, economy, etc..

Dont f*cking come on here and start throwing figures that you guys searched on google, and now suddenly you know exactly what these guys are going to do.

Japan8, I agree with you, Japanese laws are different, and they are not run the same way as here, but whats your pt? You work for Nissan of Japan and now you know everything right.. or you're japanese so your an expert of course.

Listen again, Im not here to fight about this. You won, ure the experts wuteva..

All Im saying is that Madza Rx8 is not a FORD (nothing against Ford..)

can we at least agree on that, and stick to the subject? thanks ..

And if it was a Ford I would still buy it. I could care less who makes what car as long as it is a good car.

Die thread die! :D

Originally posted by murix
And if it was a Ford I would still buy it. I could care less who makes what car as long as it is a good car.

Die thread die! :D

Bravo!!!

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
I guess the above is a good example of why you used to be a stock broker - you have not got a clue about what you're talking about! Under Japanese law, owning more than 1/3 of the issued shares in a company gives full controlling interest. Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda, and therefore has full controlling interest. I don't know what that gibberish about "just numbers they came up with", as it has nothing to do with profit. Ford's controlling interest is why they control the Mazda board of directors, and why the previous 3 CEOs of Mazda were Americans from Ford. As noted, without Ford taking control in 1996, there would be no Mazda today, period.

Everyone, thank Ford for rescuing Mazda and making the RX-8 possible - and also make no mistake, Ford could have killed the RX-8 at any time that they wanted - if Ford had not been involved and approved of it, it wouldn't exist. Is that simple enough for the Ford haters to understand and maybe back off? ;)

Regards,
Gordon

Stockshares have nothing to do with profit? Thats right, Madza just had 33% of their shares just laying around waiting for someone to come by and buy it. But of course those figures just magically appeared, and Ford came in on the right time. WoW lucky them. Please, no argument.. your right about the 1/3 law but please can we please stop making assumptions about whos really controlling who, of course unless you know the CEO personall.. then share with us his thoughts..

As Ive said before, having control of a company doesnt make the company alike your others.. Madza is run seperately just like Ford is run seperately..

Have a good day guys

Not to drag this thread longer, but...

what makes you more knowledgable than us? You got a little bit of a blackened eye because you came out swinging at Ford and stated some inaccurate information. Being a former stockbroker...good or bad, and now working for a dealer doesn't make you an expert in any way. Perhaps you have also worked in corporate at one of the auto makers or have family that does....but none of us here know, so we can only go by what we know or Google.

I never said I was, you did .

Working for a dealer gives me a little more access than you would, being we have inside information and access to HQ but yes I know, you knew that already.

Anyways, no argument and uh who was swinging at Ford?

Rx8 is a not a Ford, is that comment not true?? It is not made by Ford plants, nor designed or engineered by Ford corp.

What more do you want? Or do you just want to argue more ... ?? I have nothing against Ford, I just made a clear statement saying that just because a manufacters "owns" another, doesnt necessarily make it the same car/quality shape or form..

Lets just call this truce.. have a good one my friend

Originally posted by RX8Z
Stockshares have nothing to do with profit? Thats right, Madza just had 33% of their shares just laying around waiting for someone to come by and buy it. But of course those figures just magically appeared, and Ford came in on the right time. WoW lucky them.


wow. so in order for one company to buy another, the one has to have shares just "lying around"? the shares didn't magically appear the were owned by other share holders who sold them to Ford. and yes Ford did come in at the right time. when the price was really low. they said "hey your company is bleeding money, convince your controlloing shareholders that if they don't want to lose all of their investment they should sell to us. we'll buy enough to have controlling interest and stop the bleeding and get you back on your feet." it's not luck it's business.

Originally posted by RX8Z
Working for a dealer gives me a little more access than you would, being we have inside information and access to HQ but yes I know, you knew that already.....


I just made a clear statement saying that just because a manufacters "owns" another, doesnt necessarily make it the same car/quality shape or form..

Lets just call this truce.. have a good one my friend

you'd be surprised at the level of access some of us have even though we have never worked at a dealer or for mazda. don't even start on the "inside info" line. i have not met one single dealer employee yet, well except for budaman and ibfubar2000, who posted something like that here that had any info that we had not already seen or had access to in some other fashion. 99% of them had less info than the newest member here.

now your last statement is most definitly true and i agree 100%.

you have a good one too. :)

Since some people have asked for primary sources, or direct links to Ford, I listed the below about 1.5 years ago on the forum.

"I think Toadman very aptly summed up the Ford/Mazda relationship.

When working a year ago I met a few of Nasser's boys, the view of Mazda, at least while Nasser was in charge of Ford, was not only to restore Mazda to profitability. But also to try and convert Mazda into a a brandaname similar to Lexus or BMW. The rotary was seen as Mazda's unique advantage into capturing a part of the more expensive, upscale market. Thus the renewed interest in the rotary and push for the RX-8.

I wish I could give a more up-to-date inside view from Ford, but all my bridges were burned when Nasser left."

Does this still stand as far as Ford's direction? I believe so because I have seen from time to time many journalists mentioning Mazda's wish to be seen a the Japanese BMW. Mazda probably would like to have that market appeal regardless of Ford's intervention, however, it doesn't disagree with what the Ford execs had told me at the time.

My personal assessment, based on said connections: The RX-8 is not a Ford and is a pure Mazda innovation, however, Ford would have killed the project and the engine in a second if they could not forecast a profitable return.

I know I'm getting back to the beginning of the thread but...
I'm amazed nobody has brought up the Toyota/General Motors relationship (Toyota actually just surpassed Ford for the second larget car manufacturer). Niether have any control over the other, yet they do have a joint plant in California (I believe) where the Matrix/Vibe was created produced. The Vibe has toyota engines and transmissions and the only part of the Vibe that was acutally engineered by GM was the suspension ( I don't know why though.. the toyota has a better suspension).

Toyota was makign engines for GM since the 70's. I believe it was the inline 6 chevelle that had TOYOTA written across the valve cover. (Again, I'm young and dont know too much about older cars... but I stand behind this info)

I don't know what this proves actually... just information for you :)
(please dont rip on me for wasting your time)

Like Ive stated before, its pretty pointless to talk about who works with who.. because the reality is that almost all car manufacteres have worked with each other someway or another..

Its just business.. btw zoom44, I just got a notice from Mazda about talks of a new revamped engine for the Rx8, but of course you had access to that too.

Sorry I cant copy and paste the information because thats just confidential =)

Wish some of you guys were down here, maybe we can stop talking and get a Rx8 sprint on the highway.. take it easy

Originally posted by RX8Z
.. btw zoom44, I just got a notice from Mazda about talks of a new revamped engine for the Rx8, but of course you had access to that too.



you might as well post it because we will have it in a day or so anyway. unless of course this notice you have is about them increasing rotor size to increase displacement. then that would be the motor that has been talked about for months. 1.5 litre instead of 1.3. it would be for the mazdaspeed rx-8 that might eventually hit these shores(not to be confused with the one out in japan) and for the ever elusive new rx-7. or perhaps you are talking about the hybrid/duel fuel engine capable of using hydrogen or gasoline.

Close but no cigar, sorry confidential report.. but nice try =)

Dont worry, im sure it will leak sooner or later..

Z

There are no american parts in this car. I think there is a law in japan that says all cars assembled in japan must use domestically produced parts or something. So 100% mazda, or at least 100% japanese parts.

The window sticker should tell you if it is 100% Japanese or not... anyone?

97%...I know for a fact the keyless entry remotes and horn are Ford American parts.....

actually, visteon who makes the keyless entry was spun off from ford in 2000. so they are their own company now.

www.visteon.com/about/fast_facts/index.shtml

Originally posted by zoom44
actually, visteon who makes the keyless entry was spun off from ford in 2000. so they are their own company now.

www.visteon.com/about/fast_facts/index.shtml


You are right...it is still a Ford part in my eyes though. And it does count in the domestic parts total. Anyway...no need to split hairs...

Well with the Ford GT-40 comming out - I dont mind if anybody tells me RX-8 is a Ford. Thats good company to be in IMHO. Nothing wrong with a Ford

Guys, theres nothing wrong with a Ford and thats not the basis of me creatnig this topic that an Rx8 is not a ford

My basis is that Rx8 was designed and developed and manufactererd in Mazda original factories.. thats all

Those that are thinking that Im implying that Ford sucks , wells. perhapst thats your own view.. not mine

Fords are very subpar automobiles...reliability-wise, and overall quality-wise. Ford GT or not they are still crappy cars. So yes, it bothers me that they have anything to do with it.

So much domestic hate going on in here right now... What's wrong with you people? Ford / GM / DCX all make at least one or two quality automobiles. Ford F-150 is pretty damn good (where are your imports now?), GM has the Z06 Corvette, the Caddy CTS & SLR, and Chrysler brought us the Viper. Thank you and good night. Just a pointer when talking about the new Ford supercar, it's call the GT - not GT40 (the rights to that name are owned by someone else and the car would've been rightly called a GT44 if Ford wanted to use a similar designation).

As for the whole freaking point of the thread - it's pretty obvious that Ford can and does control Mazda's destiny (now when was it that the FD died?) It's a bit fishy that the 6 shares / is going to share much of it's platform with other marques across the Ford 7 brand lineup. Ford's been pretty good with Mazda - letting them generally operate on their own much as Volvo and Aston Martin are getting along. So yes, the RX-8 is clearly born and bred in Japan, but without a decision in Dearborn, the car would have been DEAD. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the RX-8 platform / engineering venture out of the marque if Ford saw a good opportunity to utilize their investment.

For bonus points - can anyone tell me where and why Mazda's display was set up at the North American International Auto Show?

Now I can stick my fingers in my ears and go "la la la la la la" and pretend that Ford and Mazda are totally seperate entities, but how hard will it be to look for shared components in current and future vehicles?

Alright, this is getting out of hand and out of the pt of the topic

Ford has some shitty cars, so does Mazda and so does every other car manufacter. .some way are or another, there is good and bad. Thats the environment of the car market..

so please, can we all stop this bashing and move on .. =)

Thanks !

For some people, Mazda is Ford...

Boycott Ad (http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/press_releases/pr2003jun11_gl_nytimes.pdf) (note the footnote)

Alternative Site (http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/alert_gw_billford.shtml)

I really love lobbyist ads... they are just as bad as they people they campaign against. How information are they NOT telling you?

agreed... But if you count all the people out there not capable of thinking for themselves, you'll that see campaign ads
have a significant audience to make a difference

Originally posted by Boozehound
As for the whole freaking point of the thread - it's pretty obvious that Ford can and does control Mazda's destiny (now when was it that the FD died?)

The FD "died" in 2002 with the Mazda RX-7 Spirit R limited. They just stopped selling them in the United States several years earlier.

Here's what my "SVT Enthusiast" magazine says, "The Mazda6 Sport Wagon and Mazda6 5-Door offer versality and style with the Zoom-Zoom soul of a sports car. (Note that since Ford owns Mazda, this competent platform will be appearing in other Blue Oval vehicles.)" Page 13. Mar/Apr 04

...that Mazda is associated/partnered with Ford. As I stated in the General Automotive forum in regards to the Ford GT, of all the American marques, Ford has the most international recognition when taken in the context of motorsport.

As examples, Ford as a manufacturer has won the FIA F1 Championship, the FIA World Rally Championship, the 24 Hours of LeMans, Rolex 24 at Daytona, 12 Hours of Sebring, the World Sports Car Championship and countless other series and events. Ford has powered the likes of Ickyx, Rodriguez, Gurney, Foyt, Shelby, Stewert, Schumacher, Piquet, Mansell, McRae, Saintz and many others to driver's titles. Notice I haven't even mentioned the domestic racing series like CART or NASCAR.

As a driving and motorsport enthusiast I value a manufacturer's commitment to racing. As it's been said, "Racing improves the breed." Ford has clearly embraced this idea and has done more than ANY other car company to race whatever and where ever it could. And they have won.

If you choose to de-value the relationship with Ford due to the perceived quality of the vehicles they make, that is entirely your call. But, the amazing resources, engineering and capital Ford brings to the table cannot be turned down by anyone...not Mazda, Volvo, Land Rover, Jaguar or even Aston Martin. Cars like our 8's, the Vanquish, the XJR not to mention Ford's own GT and Shelby Cobra concept (please build it!)...they all exist in some way because Ford allowed them to. That they are all performance-driven, driver's cars shows that the racing-fuel still flows through Ford's veins.

Just my 0.02 worth...

Arvin

Originally posted by ArvinC
Ford has powered the likes of Ickyx, Rodriguez, Gurney, Foyt, Shelby, Stewert, Schumacher, Piquet, Mansell, McRae, Saintz and many others to driver's titles. Notice I haven't even mentioned the domestic racing series like CART or NASCAR.

Minor nit-picky points:
Mansell - won the 92 F1 title with a Renault in the back of his Williams. He did win the CART title in 93 with Ford power.

McRae - Colin's WRC drivers title was in a Subaru - he didn't win the title while he drove for Ford.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by MEGAREDS
(note the footnote)



hehehehe they forgot Aston Martin. or did they leave it out on PURPOSE!!??

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Minor nit-picky points:
Mansell - won the 92 F1 title with a Renault in the back of his Williams. He did win the CART title in 93 with Ford power.

McRae - Colin's WRC drivers title was in a Subaru - he didn't win the title while he drove for Ford.

Regards,
Gordon

I stand corrected. :D

Arvin

Originally posted by zerobanger
What really cracks me up is when a 350Z owner laughs at the Rx-8 because its a "Ford".

Anyone know why that is REALLY funny?

Because Nissan was bought out by renault? That is funny!

Ford buys companies, and lets them for the most part run soley on their own, because of market