Hello All,
Thought you might enjoy this:
I gave my neighbor a ride to work this morning in my 8. I was driving it the way I always do and the way it was built to be driven - like an Authentic Sports Car. I was shifting the gears hard and the rpm's were going nuts. As always, the car responded beautifully and hugged the curvy road at over 70 miles an hour.
Guess what my neighbor says??? This guy tells me that shifting is meant to be smooth and that you should not be able to feel the gears change. Whaaaaatt??? I told him "you're nuts!!!" This is not your CAMRY!!! The whole point of buying this car is for the power, the incredible quickness, looks, and just pure fun of driving it. Then I demonstrated the 8's power through downshifting to third at 75mph. This guy just freaked out!! Good!!! Go back to your automatic.
Just though you all might find this funny.

actually he's somewhat right, shifting should be smooth during spirited driving/on the track, to prevent upsetting the dynamic of the car.

mAd qix0r shifting doesn't really make the car go any faster, it just jerks the car around, wasting valuable vehicle momentum.

take a look at that Leguna Seca in-cockpit video, you'll notice the driver is shifting effortlessly while maximizing vehicle speed.

Slamming the gears into place is not good for the syncros! The gas and clutch should pe modulated properly in order to match the revs of the engine to the tranny and vice-versa. That kind of abuse will lead to the tranny grenading itself. And is not considered fair wear and tear and could lead to a big repair bill because it will not be covered under warranty.

well, a little clutch/tranny abuse now and then isn't TOO bad... and i don't think laser was talking about extremely jerky shifting, cuz come on... if he knows how to downshift, i'm sure he knows how to up shift, eh?

I can't wait for the thread you write about your damaged gears and synchros..

A good driver can shift a manual smoother than an automatic to the point that no should be able to feel it. You're not driving a dump truck, so you shouldn't really shift it like one..

Originally posted by nt5k
I can't wait for the thread you write about your damaged gears and synchros..

A good driver can shift a manual smoother than an automatic to the point that no should be able to feel it. You're not driving a dump truck, so you shouldn't really shift it like one..

I disagree.

Try riding in a Lexus LS400 series...ain't no way your MT car will ever feel like that...maybe one shift out of every 20.

Ok, excluding any bargelike vehicles then.. Sheesh..

theres no doubt about that an Automatic gear shift is meant for "smooth" gear changing, that is what they design and built it for ..

but Laser, no offense dude but do you know how to drive stick??

A real professional driver would drive a manual so smooth you would never even think its a manual to begin with. Its all about learning the timing and when to engage... god I feel for your passenger just thinking about it.

Sorry man, but the jokes really on you..

Guys, give him a break... i would love to put all of you in a car with a camera on you just to see how many of you huys are shifting it that pure. Laser, have fun with the car and i am SURE you won't damage your transmission at all.

I think what the thread starter is talking about is shifting at top acceleration. There will always be a jerk when you up-shift from first to second. Actually there will be two jerks, first when you hear the buzzer at WOT in first and push in the clutch, you will jerk forward, and second, when you engage second there shoud be another jerk. Granted you can avoid the second jerk if needed around a turn, but on a straight away for maximum acceleration, there should be another jerk.

Of course, I may be wrong about what the thread starter meant. I drive much more jerky when I'm by myself than when somebody's with me.

this pointless bashing is kind of getting old. i highly doubt those of you who are trash talking can drive nearyl as smoothly as you claim. it's feels a lot different when you're sitting shotgun. like they say, the driver never spills his drink, the passenger does. it's a friggin manual car. of COURSE you can feel it shift.

Originally posted by f1michel
Guys, give him a break... i would love to put all of you in a car with a camera on you just to see how many of you huys are shifting it that pure. Laser, have fun with the car and i am SURE you won't damage your transmission at all.

Yes, Guys give him a break... He's driving to have fun! He mentioned RPMs all over the place! To best shift smoothly, one shifts at low RPMs (say the shift points in Mazda's owner's manual) and it's no fun at all. Obviously, he was not shifting at those reccomended ridiculous shift points. And I agree that he probably is not damaging his transmission (don't know for sure unless he drives me to work, but purely based on his post, it's not clear, so I give him the benefit of the doubt).

Originally posted by red_rx8_red_int
To best shift smoothly, one shifts at low RPMs (say the shift points in Mazda's owner's manual) and it's no fun at all.

Don't know about everyone else, but I find it is very difficult to shift smoothly with the low shift points specified in the owner's manual. I personally find that I shift smoothest above 4500 rpm. That way the car has some momentum. Get the shifter through the gates quickly so you don't lose speed and you will get a smooth shift. The digital speedometer tells the tale... if you lose a mph or 2 during the shift, it wasn't a smooth shift. If the speedo continues to march on through the shift, mission accomplished.

BTW, all of the modern automatics even in econoboxes are electronically contolled and are synched to the engine management. The engines do things like retard timing in anticipation of upshifts to make the shift smooth.

the main point i was trying to get across is that you always STRIVE to shift smoothly, not INTENTIONALLY shift hard and jerking the car back and forth so you can scare the bejebus out of the passenger, which is what he said he did in his first post :p

it takes more skill to shift smoothly than the quix0r jerky shift, as evident by everyone's response ;) ;)

The quicker you are with the the clutching/shifting action the smoother it will be. This will take some practice if you're not used to driving manual. You need to find the cluth pedal position where the clutch engages/disengages for smooth shifting. In the RX8 it took me some time before I could downshift smoothly into 2nd gear.
I find that the RX8 allows one of the smoothest gear shifting around. Definitely smoother than any piston engines I've driven. The RX8 does not lose much momentum when you clutch in, I guess because of the free-revving design of the engine. That is probably also why engine braking is less strong in the RX8.

so critical some folks are here.. jeez

I think for the "EXPERT" drivers, I'm sure most can shift effortlessly, seamlessly all the time, but for most folks out there with manual transmissions, they can do it also in slower fashion, for day-to-day driving.

In my experience, I shift extremely smoothly on a daily basis, and especially with passengers, to give them the most comfortable ride. But when I'm on my own, I tend to punch it more and not worry too much about trying to achieve the "smoothest" transition. Doing so only detracts from having real fun, right Laser? :)

But if you have fun with others in your car, reactions like Laser's passenger isn't surprising to me.

In daily driving, most people do not drive their car in a way that maximizes smoothest shifting AND performance, such as taking the car to top RPM's, blipping the throttle at every downshift, or doing a heel-to-toe around each bend, etc.... So smooth shifting in normal driving actually requires alot of road time with the car to gain experience and knowedge of what speeds and RPMs to lift off on the clutch. Even being off by a hundred RPM's can cause slight jerking. So really, driving smoothly all depends on how you easy or hard you are on the clutch. The closer you are to the "sweetspot" the harder you can lift off on the clutch without compressing the engine.

Come on guys, let's get real here. I've been smooth shifting for the last 12 years. Please read the initial post in this thread. Look for the part where I say "This is not your CAMRY". If I wanted to shift without feeling the power, I would still be driving my previous car (Camry - Stick Shift).
I'm having a blast driving this car. I'm not jerking the car, breaking the tranny, or anything like that. There's a lot of curvy roads where I live and that just makes all the difference when you have a car like the 8. Try downshifting to fourth on a curve at 80mph. You'll know what I mean. I shift smoothly on the 8 all the time. That's no fun!! This was the first time my neighbor got in my car so I wanted to show him what it was capable of. I think he got the idea!!

Originally posted by laser88
Try downshifting to fourth on a curve at 80mph. You'll know what I mean.

Uh, no thanks - if you're cornering hard, you shouldn't be shifting at all, especially hard shifting. That's one of the first things they teach you at a performance driving school!

I shift smoothly on the 8 all the time. That's no fun!! This was the first time my neighbor got in my car so I wanted to show him what it was capable of. I think he got the idea!!

You seem to be equating smooth with slow? That's not necessarily true - again, if you were to ride with a Bondurant or Skip Barber driving school instructor, you'd be impressed at how quickly they can shift, while at the same time you would be flabbergasted at how SMOOTH they shift. Consider Jackie Stewart - 3 time World Driving Champion, so he's definitely fast and knows how to drive a sports car. He constantly preaches smoothness to go fast - you'd never find him slamming gears!

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by laser88
Try downshifting to fourth on a curve at 80mph.

Dude you're just digging yourself in a hole here. Statements like this will get you nothing but criticism.

Do yourself a favor and visit the site below.. It will probably save your life if you're driving the way you describe above...

http://www.johnnyoconnell.com/tips4.html

you seriously need to some driving tips...

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Uh, no thanks - if you're cornering hard, you shouldn't be shifting at all, especially hard shifting. That's one of the first things they teach you at a performance driving school!

[B]

Regards,
Gordon

True the only thing you should be doing is brake going into the curve and accelerate coming out of the curve. Never shift gears or try to do anything that will affect weight transfer of the vehicle while in the curve. If you need to downshift do it before going into the curve. If done correctly and precisly you can use the engine to brake the car and then keeping the same gear to accelerate out of the turn, never needing to use the brakes!

Laser , dont take any offense.. problem is none of us were there, so your words may be takened out of context. I apologie myself if you felt attacked but what I really meant to say prior was that, it is possible to drive a manual shift properly and efficiently smooth like an automatic

Everyone has their own perception of how to drive and the right way, and it also depends on the car as well..

I drove a Z and no matter how much I tried to shift , it was always a rough shift.. but thats cuz Z cars have terrible gearshift , its like clunk.. clunk

anwyays, have fun ! thats all that matters ! peace

I think most peeps think they shift a lot smoother than they really do :p It comes with the terrirtory. If you drive a MT car, your passengers are going to feel it. The driver has no sensation for how hard the shifts are because he/she is holding onto the wheel.

it's kind of funny, there are way too many people trying to "teach" each other how to drive cars that, well, they already know how to drive.

i mean COME ON poeople.... do we REALLY need to teach each other how to shift?!?

i don't know why people underestimate other manual drivers, but trust me, anyone who has driven a manual car for more than 6 months has a pretty good idea how to shift smoothly. in fact, that's one of the first things people try to master.

Originally posted by Rotary Soul
i don't know why people underestimate other manual drivers, but trust me, anyone who has driven a manual car for more than 6 months has a pretty good idea how to shift smoothly. in fact, that's one of the first things people try to master.

disagree...there are some people that just can't drive smooth at all, not even in an automatic...have you ever been in the car with a person that can't even hold the gas steady? they speed up rapidly and then take their foot of the gas completely to slow down...when they brake and the car comes to a complete stop, they don't ease off the brakes to gently counter the momentum...it causes the head bobbing action...these people have no sense of subtle motion, i tell them to hold the gas steady and what they're doing yet they do not realize it

now with manuals, it's even harder...you put those same people in a manual automobile and it gets even worse...it's because they have no sense of acute motion...seriously i know people that have been driving stick longer than myself and the way they shift is very harsh...how do i know? because people just talk...friends compare driving practices and they tell you, "you shift a lot smoother than so and so"...

i believe some are just more adept at sensing abrupt changes in motion than others...

I ridicule at people who criticize other people. Lazer was only commenting about his driving experience, providing some entertainment, and you guys bashed him for it... for shame.

Dude, unless you hold a professional race car driving license of some sort, and can prove it otherwise, I suggest you spend less time critiquing other people and more time improving on your own driving style.

Heck, I'm going to drive a marathon right after this post. This is just a forum guys; people come here and share their experiences. Keep it friendly and keep it fun. So much anger and frustation... go figure??

ooh, i hope i didn't come off sounding like i was directly/indirectly criticizing anyone here...my post was directly in response to Rotary Soul's claim that anyone, given 6 months time, can drive smooth...all i'm saying is that some ppl either just can't or don't even bother (don't care or just too lazy to smooth off the clutch)...i'm saying this from my own experience and has nothing to do with anyone here =)

If everybody has expert level shifting skills, then why do some people burn out a clutch in 10k miles and others are still going strong at 100k?

Just walk through any shopping center parking lot and listen to people mercilessly riding the clutch in all the little 4 door sedans. Or go for a ride with your friend/neighbor/co-worker and watch them lug the pants off the engine. Yes, all of these people will proudly proclaim that they are experts at driving manual shifts.

I am sure that most of the people that bought the 8 can drive fairly skillfully, but most of us haven't owned the car for very long. Skillful shifting is very sensory and it takes a while to become one with the particular vehicle.

So let's all stop ganging up on one another and go find an SUV site to troll.

Who cares about the shifting. How to shift or whatever. Just as long as that driver is having fun. I always practice different ways of shifting.

i think this horse is dead.

oh and i guess i know what your talking about brx8, i have a friend that doesn't drive too well either... but i do think that those people drive that way cuz they're either lazy or don't give a shit.

no it isn't you still posted on it, didn't you

I've had my 8 for less than a month now. I learned stick with a 93 Civic hatch last month and yes I know how to shift smoothly on my RX8. It is also true that you go faster if you shift smoother.

When I was test-driving this RX8, I chirped the tires going 80mph when I shifted to 4th to go up to 90+. That's because the car was new to me and I had to learn it's gears' threshold.

If you can't shift smoothly, then it's guaranteed that you can't downshift properly and enter/exit a corner efficiently.

Sorry dude, I agree with you about not Camry-ing your 8, but your justification doesn't sum up. I'm 22 and I'm not saying I'm the best driver for shifting smoothly, but saying you have driven a stick for 12 years doesn't guarantee perfect wisdom. I know people who have driven a stick more than that who still can't shift right... even with a Camry.

ps. I forced myself to learn shifting smoothly even at redline on my RX8 because I don't have TCS and DSC on this. Very dangerous if I chirp the tires on a slippery road. I have fishtailed this baby once. Luckily, nobody was beside me.

Originally posted by Rotary Nut
True the only thing you should be doing is brake going into the curve and accelerate coming out of the curve. Never shift gears or try to do anything that will affect weight transfer of the vehicle while in the curve. If you need to downshift do it before going into the curve. If done correctly and precisly you can use the engine to brake the car and then keeping the same gear to accelerate out of the turn, never needing to use the brakes!

For the most part all of your braking should be done by the brakes. When you enter a turn you need to finish your braking and shifting before you turn your wheels. some trail braking might be OK but that depends on the turn. Pads are cheaper than trany parts. just my 2cents