Hawaii lawmakers are taking the initial steps to try and pass legislation that would not only take your driver's license away but take your car away as well if you're caught speeding more than 30 miles above the speed limit. Hawaii's freeway speed limit is 50 MPH so anyone caught going above 80 MPH would lose their car.

I'm all for this and hope it passes soon. Recent accidents/deaths caused by street racers has prompted our lawmakers to take these steps.

Damn between this and Zerobanger there are some serious speed Nazi's on this forum. My only question is why in the world did you buy a sports car???? Have fun in the slow lane...

Actually, now that I think about it, it doesn't even have to do with sports cars - your car taken away for going 80???? I would leave any state that passed a law like this. My grandpa drives over 80 on the highway.

I agree. That is BS. The Autobahn has way less accidents then we do. People that drive stupid cause accidents and NOT speed.

Originally posted by Jeff_pap31s
I agree. That is BS. The Autobahn has way less accidents then we do. People that drive stupid cause accidents and NOT speed.

the secret to the autobahn is don't ever pass on the right. get on their ass and flash your lights and make them move over. :D

Originally posted by Jeff_pap31s
People that drive stupid cause accidents and NOT speed.

Considering most of people that "drive stupid" and speed and cause these accidents have been kids between 15-25, should we raise the driving age to 25? I'm OK with a law like that too :p

Perhaps the enforcing officer should be able to make a judgement call based on the circumstances and the context of the situation, including such factors as driver age, attitude, mitigating circumstances, other traffic conditions, etc.

Oh - wait a minute - we already have that...

Make em drive '67 Ram vans. That'll learn em!

here is what one of my coworkers said..

all people need to first pass a much harder driving test. Second they all have to drive street bikes for 5 years!! You survive you can graduate to a car.

Who wants to hedge their bets with good ol' Darwin!

The fact is, the Federal Government contracted a study that showed that posted speed limits have almost nothing to do with the actual speeds at which people drive.
In fact, when the posted limits were changed up or down, there was almost NO statistically significant change in the average speed of traffic.
However, they found that accidents were more likely to occur on roads where the posted speed limits were decreased.

This is per the study by Tignor and Warren at the Federal Highway Administration in McLean, Virginia.

Originally posted by i3man
Considering most of people that "drive stupid" and speed and cause these accidents have been kids between 15-25, should we raise the driving age to 25? I'm OK with a law like that too :p

You are definitly an extremist.:eek: While we are at it, lets just take driving licenses away from people over 50 because as you age your reflexes slow down. People need to drive and always will from an early age till the day they die. So, deal with it and quit your complaining.:p

It's obvious those of you that disagree are in the minority. For it to get this far our community would have had to pressured our lawmakers to the point where proposed legislation was their only alternative.

It doesn't necessarily mean it will become law but I think it's the start of some kind of legislation in this state to try and deter speeding and street racing. If taking away your car after you spend $30K or more on it isn't going to stop you from speeding, you deserve to lose your car.

Hawaii is a small place. Our freeway is probably only 20-25 miles long. There are on ramps and off ramps at least every 2 miles in the suburbs and much more frequently in the City of Honolulu. There are NO long stretches where you can open up a car for miles on end.

In reality Hawaii is not a practical place for car enthusiasts who like to drive fast...we don't have the space to accomodate it.

You are a complete ID 10 T dude! You have NO clue. That means that the people who cruise at 80 on a road trip loose thier car? That is unconstitutional! Too many chiefs and too many laws. We are not a minority, you are in Hawaii. Just a few ID 10 T's who happen to get elected had that view and push the law.

Originally posted by Jeff_pap31s
You are a complete ID 10 T dude! You have NO clue. That means that the people who cruise at 80 on a road trip loose thier car? That is unconstitutional! Too many chiefs and too many laws. We are not a minority, you are in Hawaii. Just a few ID 10 T's who happen to get elected had that view and push the law.

Thanks for showing everyone that you have the IQ of a 2-year old. I think someone needs a timeout here.

3 years ago a family was going to church at 5AM when a 18-year old kid hit their van traveling at 50 MPH when he lost control of his car street racing at 100 MPH. The kid lived and escaped with minor injuries. The mother in the van died. This is the exact accident that his prompting the proposed legislation.

Well, make a law that will take the car away from the STREET RACERS. Speeding does NOT kill people. Stupid drivers kill people. IQ of a 2 year old? HMMM well I guess I should go just turn in my engineering degree?!?! OK think logically here.... You make a law so that people who drive safe but speed will get their cars taken away? Wrong kind of law to pass. Don't telll me speed kills. Try driving the Autobahn sometime and you will see that there are hardly ANY accidents. It not the speed you should be going after, it is the RECKLESS DRIVERS. Got that IQ Man?

Dude did I say this was going to happen in Germany or CA or any other state? How about putting the college degree to work and answering people around here with a little respect.

No but it is still wrong. Go after the Drunk Drivers and Reckless drivers and I will stand behind you all the way!

I doubt Hawaii would have enough room in their impound lots for all those cars. Space is at a premium over there - except on those islands with all the lepers on them. Sounds like the new law will be as enforceable as prohibition.

Your right! Why? Because they are going after the WRONG people. Go after the reckless kids and drunks hardcore and you'll see improvement.

Speeding is not as big a problem as you might think here and that is why they could probably pass legislation like this and it wouldn't affect very many people. It would probably do what it is intended to do.

We live on an island and everything is very close together. When you get on the freeway, more times than not, you're getting off it within 5-10 miles. This is not a place where people drive fast...our freeway is not long enough. You'll end up falling in the water before you know it.

Just a side note guys, the govt. has been trying to take cars away from drivers for years. They will take your car for example if it is used to transport drugs or in the commission of a drug crime. There is a catch 22 however. It seems that they can take the car away from the person who used it for the crime but not away from the legal owner if they were not a party to the crime. In most cases this would be the bank. The car gets returned to the bank and the bank returns it to the registered owner. If the car was owned free and clear this is a whole 'nother story.

If you owned a $30+k car free and clear then you may just have the money, or the parents with the money, to buy another one. This may also be why you aren't a responsible driver in the first place.

I can see why HI. would have problems with speeders on short freeways and narrow highways that have frequent merges on and off. I am sure that the lost tourists aren't much help. I have to say it sounds like one of the drawbacks to living in paradise. People will race no matter what, I agree with pap31s. It would be smarter to go after reckless drivers which I am sure HI., like so many other places, has pleanty of.

P.S. I think that pap31s is just jealous right now of your warm climate :) .

Speed can be dangerous in the States because of the quality of a lot of our roads. The thing about the Autobahn is that the Krauts are so meticulous about the upkeep & design of that road. Better pavement and twice as thick. No potholes in that left lane or big trucks. Drawbacks are major fuel & car tax to pay for it - frequent construction zones. And the no speed limit signs (which are signified by 2 squiggly lines) are harder and harder to come by. There are strict speed limits in populated areas which encroach more & more every year. If all us Yankees didn’t always freak out about high taxes we might just have a road of that caliber. I know Wyoming doesn’t have a speed limit on some roads, but I doubt the put as much upkeep into them as the Krauts. That’s why you can speed there- try that in the states and you find your self in a pothole at 100+ and it ain’t fun.

Is that what your green helmet is for Knerk?

Oh Yeah! :)

Makes me look like a profeshenal!

When I go 100+ I go up down the stretch I like 2 or 3 times - make sure there are no rough points or speed traps. No guarantees you will get way with it though. No guarantees at all in life - but hey thats why I'm on Earth in the first place!

P.S. I think that pap31s is just jealous right now of your warm climate :) . [/B][/QUOTE]


HAHA Very funny 93!:eek: You know the speed limit down here is 25mph:eek: :eek: :eek: on the ICE!

They actually watch your speed? WTH I would think that a perk of being in such an enviroment would be that they would pretty much let you do as you please as long as your not hurting anyone or the enviroment.

Do you get nailed for not signaling when you change lanes too? :D

Originally posted by Maniac
The fact is, the Federal Government contracted a study that showed that posted speed limits have almost nothing to do with the actual speeds at which people drive.
In fact, when the posted limits were changed up or down, there was almost NO statistically significant change in the average speed of traffic.
However, they found that accidents were more likely to occur on roads where the posted speed limits were decreased.

This is per the study by Tignor and Warren at the Federal Highway Administration in McLean, Virginia.

Your study is wrong. The only one I know of, sanctioned by the Government, proved the opposite. Also, Nader proved this as well.

Drivers are, as a group, better and safer in Europe than we are in the U.S. Drunk driving penalties are not loosely enforced as they are here. There is a man in my city with multiple drunk driving arrests and license suspensions/revocations who killed a couple of people driving drunk a few years ago. Guess what? H was just caught driving drunk again! I say, confiscate every bit of this murderous drunk's property and give it to his victim's family, then lock him up and throw away the key.

Someone told me that since every moron doesn't own a car in Europe as they do here, drivers are better, smarter, and more careful in maintaining there vehicles. I don't know exactly how that works, but I never saw junky old heaps on the autobahn like I see every time I'm on the freeway here.

Ok, let me clear this up for everybody. The idea that speed is dangerous is a complete and utter lie. Of course physics dictates that in an accident at higher speeds there is going to be a higher risk of injury - however there is absolutely no evidence that speed is a cause of accidents. Here are the reasons the government is lying about speeding:

1. Government (and politicians in particular) are always under pressure to be seen to be "doing something" or else what are they there for? Thus in the wake of mounting deaths on the highways they instituted national speed limits.

2. Shrinking government funds led to a search for new ways to "tax". If you can make people believe that it's all in the name of road safety then you have found a good way to con the bulk of the people. Back this up with a saturation campaign that presents the message "Speeding is the major factor in the road toll" and you have the game sewn up.

3. Radar is a fairly easy way to collect revenue from otherwise law abiding citizens.

4. Addressing the real issues such as; better roads and highway systems, driver education, targeting alcohol and drug affected drivers, and identifying the truly dangerous drivers is either too expensive or just too much hard work.

5. For years "speed" has been the convenient whipping boy. To change focus now would expose the sins of the past.

Let me clear something else up for some of you: STREET RACING is not when I get on the highway and drive 100 or even 130. It is not when someone drives 60 in a 35 because the limit is set unreasonably low. STREET RACING is when a bunch of stupid kids emulate the Fast and the Furious, get together with their Hondas and Mitsubishis, and DRAG RACE repeatedly down one stretch of road. The speed limit and speed laws have NOTHING to do with them.

REPEAL THE LIMITS.

Originally posted by noahprtlnd
Ok, let me clear this up for everybody. The idea that speed is dangerous is a complete and utter lie. Of course physics dictates that in an accident at higher speeds there is going to be a higher risk of injury - however there is absolutely no evidence that speed is a cause of accidents. Here are the reasons the government is lying about speeding:

1. Government (and politicians in particular) are always under pressure to be seen to be "doing something" or else what are they there for? Thus in the wake of mounting deaths on the highways they instituted national speed limits.

2. Shrinking government funds led to a search for new ways to "tax". If you can make people believe that it's all in the name of road safety then you have found a good way to con the bulk of the people. Back this up with a saturation campaign that presents the message "Speeding is the major factor in the road toll" and you have the game sewn up.

3. Radar is a fairly easy way to collect revenue from otherwise law abiding citizens.

4. Addressing the real issues such as; better roads and highway systems, driver education, targeting alcohol and drug affected drivers, and identifying the truly dangerous drivers is either too expensive or just too much hard work.

5. For years "speed" has been the convenient whipping boy. To change focus now would expose the sins of the past.

Let me clear something else up for some of you: STREET RACING is not when I get on the highway and drive 100 or even 130. It is not when someone drives 60 in a 35 because the limit is set unreasonably low. STREET RACING is when a bunch of stupid kids emulate the Fast and the Furious, get together with their Hondas and Mitsubishis, and DRAG RACE repeatedly down one stretch of road. The speed limit and speed laws have NOTHING to do with them.

REPEAL THE LIMITS.

Exactly what I was trying to say!:D

Originally posted by 93rdcurrent
They actually watch your speed? WTH I would think that a perk of being in such an enviroment would be that they would pretty much let you do as you please as long as your not hurting anyone or the enviroment.

Do you get nailed for not signaling when you change lanes too? :D

Well, they assume. Meaning, we have lots of tattletales. Mostly female that will report you if they ASSUME your speeding. My company here is ATS (Aviation Technical Services) and we have a van and a truck. We are notorious for this......... Van #217 was seen today travelling at a high rate of speed, this needs to stop so wew don't have to pull ATS's driving priviledges. Sometimes yes we are caught doing like 50 or 60 on ICE. Now remember these roads are groomed and not paved. Sometimes we are not speeding and some tattletale females will not only tell, they will say we are drunk or something just to cause trouble.:mad: And of course they find out we are not.

Originally posted by cumpressor4u2nv
Your study is wrong. The only one I know of, sanctioned by the Government, proved the opposite. Also, Nader proved this as well.

Nader has yet to actually prove anything ever.
But that is another story.

"My" study isn't "wrong" and it is a government commissioned story with a FIA number and everything.
It was suppressed because it got a lot of state governors upset because of the potential of loss of revenue.
It is still out there, though.

Hey Cum, how about you cough up "your" study?

This is ridiculous. My car belongs to me. If they want to take my license because of repeated offenses, that's one thing, but there's no way they should take my car. That's like them saying, "Hey, that's a nice ring you're wearing. Since you were speeding, we'll be taking that."

And there's no way they should even think about it after only one offense.

i3man
Keep in mind that most people don't understand the difference between driving on Oahu and on the mainland. In Hawaii there is no place very far from another. Getting your car up to 80+ for a fun stretch isn't practical. The volume of traffic vs. amount of roadway is unlike any I've experienced before. The number of tourists with no idea of where they are or where they need to be is phenomenal. On and off ramps are not set in logical places (just because you can get off in one place does not mean you can get back on in that area). There are areas of the island that have fun roads that are not high volume and those aren't heavily patrolled. The 30over legislation in this particular environ would in effect be targeting street racers. Just my opinion. :)

Are you saying there is nowhere in Hawaii where a person can reach 80mph even for a few seconds safely? And you mentioned the kid hit the family's car at 50mph (although it was assumed he was doing 100mph+ earlier). To me this means the speed limit is much too high at 50mph - let's make it 20mph instead, based on this one example.

It's a shame that Hawaii doesn't have any laws for reckless driving, manslaughter etc. Personally I think putting someone in jail stops them from driving even more effectively than taking their car away, but that's just my opinion...

I think that's a dumb idea.. taking away a car?? I mean come on., half the kids that speed dont even own the car. That's Mommy and Daddy's car. And knowing Mom and Dad, they'll go out and buy them another one. I can understand a stiff fine.. but not taking the car. A tad on the NAZI side, IMO.

As for the speed limit, it's fine right where it is. A bit on the low side, but still ok for the island.

Unfortunately, I find myself at 80 easily most time on the freeway.. but this is when the freeway is rather clear. If the roads are even close to full, I'm usually at speed limit. We just have too many drivers in Hawaii that either too young, too old, or just plain dumb.

It's somewhat of a tough call to pinpoint one law to try to control the speed and lessen accidents. I think a collection of laws may help. Let's start with a higher age for license and a harder exam.

Studies shmudies! Magnum PI had a Ferrari. Who is gonna own a Ferrari if you can't go 80? That's a dumb law, don't make me sic the Lads on them.

Signed,
Johnathan Q. Higgins III

I think the reason they call it a "law" is because it's a "law." If this ever passes, you have nobody to blame but yourself if they take your car away.

If the law says you lose your car if you're caught speeding more than 30 MPH above the stated speed limit...tough beans. You don't like it you can go live somewhere else.

If this makes 250,000 people move out of state so be it.

Originally posted by noahprtlnd
Damn between this and Zerobanger there are some serious speed Nazi's on this forum. My only question is why in the world did you buy a sports car???? Have fun in the slow lane...

Actually, now that I think about it, it doesn't even have to do with sports cars - your car taken away for going 80???? I would leave any state that passed a law like this. My grandpa drives over 80 on the highway.

im not against "speeding", I do it from time to time. I'm against driving "132" like that other guy was.

Our speed limit here is 75 on most highways, 70 in some areas. That would mean you would have to run 100-105 to get your license taken away.

I can see a case being made for this, but I think it should not be on the first offense unless you are racing someone else.

Dont call me a speed nazi, I like to have fun in my car, I just dont need to drive "132" to do it.

You know, I am really getting tired of people looking to make the world "safe". Ever buy a ladder? You will not believe all the warning lables on it. I am not advocating street racing or driving 100mph in a residential community but this crap about taking your car for going more than 30mph over the limit is simply flat out crazy. If I'm on a deserted road and want to rev it up leave me the hell alone, if I kill myself that is my problem and my families problem; I don't need the government keeping me safe.

Maybe on Oahu going 80 isn't feasible, but there sure as hell are many places for it on Maui. I imagine if it were to become law, it would apply to all islands. Dumb idea.

Originally posted by stickman
You know, I am really getting tired of people looking to make the world "safe". Ever buy a ladder? You will not believe all the warning lables on it. I am not advocating street racing or driving 100mph in a residential community but this crap about taking your car for going more than 30mph over the limit is simply flat out crazy. If I'm on a deserted road and want to rev it up leave me the hell alone, if I kill myself that is my problem and my families problem; I don't need the government keeping me safe.


Exactly! As long as you are not hurting anyone else but yourself. Some people here are just very closed minded and see only what benefits them. GO AFTER RECKLESS DRIVERS AND DRUNKS!!! PERIOD!!:eek:

i3man,

Instead of taking away people's driving privileges that are under 25... How 'bout we take away the driving privileges of people over 50 as someone suggested before? I regularly have more problems with people driving ridiculously slow than people driving too fast. And while we're at it, why don't we revoke all the driver license's of the people driving mini-vans and monster SUV's who change lanes without knowing what they're merging into and drive 30 in a 45 congesting traffic. Get my drift?

We can't discriminate against people who have done nothing wrong just because of their age or gender. However, I wholeheartedly agree with Jeff_Pap, go after drunk drivers and street racers, and leave the rest of us alone.

Quote by I3man
"How about putting the college degree to work and answering people around here with a little respect."

While we're on the subject of respect... you should treat everyone who reads this forum with respect and not generalize with statements to offend people.

To try to calm everybody down just a little bit...

Cars would not be subject to forfiture for a first offense. It would only be after a second offence, within five years of the first offense.

They do, however want to make seeding +30 a felony offense, with a manditory fine of $10,000 a 1 year licence suspension, and possible prison terms up to five years.

In my opinion, what we've got already works. The idiot who killed the mother in the van is up on Manslaughter charges, which is exactly what he deserves. Every state has some kind of Vehicular Manslaughter charge which is a felony. I think that should be enough. Perhaps not to prevent people from speeding +30, but definatley enough to punish them when they t-bone a minivan.

My favorite quote is this...

Making this offense a Class C felony would equate the offense to such offenses as negligent homicide in the second degree, assault in the second degree, assault against a law enforcement officer in the first degree, terroristic threatening in the first degree, sexual assault in the third degree, to name just a few," said Jack Tonaki, state public defender.

Yeah, speeding +30 is as bad as assault on a LEO or sexual assault. Riiiiiight.

More information on the Hawaii debacle is available from http://starbulletin.com/2004/01/31/news/story2.html

This is what u should do. Here in San Diego, we had the most accident cause by street racer the last 3 to 4 years. There have been many death because of street racing here. However, the last 1 1/2 the city has delt with its problem on several front.

1) They creacted a alternative event for street racer, by holding drags race at our local stadium 2 twice a month and in the summer 4 time a monthe. On a saterday of friday.

2) Tuffer penalties for street racers. Like taking there car away and makeing it a Misdameaner to watch an illegal street race.

Because of that, street racing here in San Diego had been reduce dramaticly. It use to that every given Friday or Saterday night. There would be hundred and somtime thousand street racers out ther doing their thing. Now, when I drive by the same street , it like deserted. You have to go to the source of the problem and beside most street race don't go the fast. They could be doing just 50 to 60 and still be street racing. You need to take a harder look at the propose law.

I agree.
If street racing is the problem, target street racing.
I am fine with targeting stiff penalties to street racing, but general speeding? Thats BS.

Originally posted by i3man
I think the reason they call it a "law" is because it's a "law." If this ever passes, you have nobody to blame but yourself if they take your car away.

If the law says you lose your car if you're caught speeding more than 30 MPH above the stated speed limit...tough beans. You don't like it you can go live somewhere else.

If this makes 250,000 people move out of state so be it.

BWAAAAHAAAAHAAAA

Seriously dude, you can't honestly believe that the law is the law, and if you don't like it tough beans.

Just because the elected officials pass a law, that does not necessarily mean any of the following:
a) it makes sense
b) it is just
c) it is supported by the citizens those officials are supposed to represent
d) it is constitutionally valid

Whether you agree with the law also has no effect on any of those four.

I do agree that it is probably legal to impound the car for violating the speed laws - instrument used in the commission of a crime and all. However, I'm not so sure that the Hawai'ian speed limit makes sense. Not living there I don't have first-hand knowledge...

Originally posted by livitup
To try to calm everybody down just a little bit...

Cars would not be subject to forfiture for a first offense. It would only be after a second offence, within five years of the first offense.

They do, however want to make seeding +30 a felony offense, with a manditory fine of $10,000 a 1 year licence suspension, and possible prison terms up to five years.

In my opinion, what we've got already works. The idiot who killed the mother in the van is up on Manslaughter charges, which is exactly what he deserves. Every state has some kind of Vehicular Manslaughter charge which is a felony. I think that should be enough. Perhaps not to prevent people from speeding +30, but definatley enough to punish them when they t-bone a minivan.

My favorite quote is this...

Making this offense a Class C felony would equate the offense to such offenses as negligent homicide in the second degree, assault in the second degree, assault against a law enforcement officer in the first degree, terroristic threatening in the first degree, sexual assault in the third degree, to name just a few," said Jack Tonaki, state public defender.

Yeah, speeding +30 is as bad as assault on a LEO or sexual assault. Riiiiiight.

More information on the Hawaii debacle is available from http://starbulletin.com/2004/01/31/news/story2.html

Nice find. That is the accident responsible for this initiative.

Originally posted by DisneyDestroyer
BWAAAAHAAAAHAAAA

Seriously dude, you can't honestly believe that the law is the law, and if you don't like it tough beans.

Just because the elected officials pass a law, that does not necessarily mean any of the following:
a) it makes sense
b) it is just
c) it is supported by the citizens those officials are supposed to represent
d) it is constitutionally valid

Whether you agree with the law also has no effect on any of those four.

I do agree that it is probably legal to impound the car for violating the speed laws - instrument used in the commission of a crime and all. However, I'm not so sure that the Hawai'ian speed limit makes sense. Not living there I don't have first-hand knowledge...

You could same thing about our income tax system. Nobody says it has to make sense. If it's law, you follow it. If you don't, you suffer the consequences. If you don't like it, you live somewhere else. And if enough people don't like it, maybe they make a new law.

I HAVE TO SAY THIS!!!!

IF THEY WERE TO TAKE MY CAR THEN THEY BETTER TAKE THE GOD DAMN LOAN DEBT THAT GOES WITH IT.

Originally posted by i3man
You could same thing about our income tax system.
<snip>

Actually, there is quite a debate on that - some people claim that you should not be taxed on renumeration for your personal work (ie salary), only for your income (ie increase in value of property, investments, etc).

There's also a difference in that income taxes penalize everybody, not only the evildoers.

And even if it's a perfectly valid law (which neither of your examples have been to me), there is nothing wrong with people voicing their displeasure and the feeling that it makes no sense.

stickman, think about it. You said " If I'm on a deserted road and want to rev it up leave me the hell alone, . . " If this road is so deserted, where would the cop come from to tag you on the limit and take your car?

My question is this: Is the highway in Hawaii really that twisted/curvy that the speed limit truely needs to be 50 (and that 80 is dangerous or "reckless")??

On a completely straight stretch of highway in New Mexico, with nothing but desert for miles, the speed limit may be 70, but I don't think its incredibly dangerous for someone to go 100.

But in downtown Austin, where the speedlimit on IH35 is 55, one could argue that 85 is reckless. And quite frankly that only people I see going that speed are stupid kids, and I wouldn't be crying any tears if they had their car taken away.

Originally posted by maxwell72764
stickman, think about it. You said " If I'm on a deserted road and want to rev it up leave me the hell alone, . . " If this road is so deserted, where would the cop come from to tag you on the limit and take your car?

On my drive home from work (often at 1 in the morning), there is NO ONE on the road (except the weekends), yet there is often a cop sitting/radaring on this particular overpass. Getting people as they come over a hill/the speed limit drops 10mph.

Personally I think that is BS. I used to live in Hawaii and the speed limits there are way to low. I like the way laws are now. If you go a certain amount over the speed limit you get a ticket for wreckless driving which is worth half the point on your licence. The only thing I would agree with would be if your licence is suspendid and you are caught driving on it then maybe impound your car. But defintely not permanent just for the time your licence is suspendid. Then charge the person for stowage fees plus towing for the time its suspendid.

What's up with all this reckless driving stuff? How do you spot a reckless driver? Is someone who tailgates at highway speeds a reckless driver? Is someone who races a reckless driver? Is someone who dirfts around corners a reckless driver?
I'll tell you how some of the local law enforcement spots reckless drivers. They see me speeding and pull me over without clocking me. Its BS. I've have had more C&Is (careless & imprudent driving) than I can count.
The average Joe & Jane are the bad drivers; they're the ones that cause accidents. The people who drive 2-3 car lengths from the car in front of them are causing accidents. The soccer moms that haven't replaced their brake pads since 1987 are causing accidents. These 15 car pileups aren't caused by one bad driver; they're caused by the guy in front and the 14 others driving too closely.
These street racers are probably killing themselves more than anyone else. This doesn't mean that its not a problem. It just means they're harming themselves more than others. I don't think suicide is as bad as homicide. Do you?
I doubt these street racers are the people driving at high speeds on the highway. Where I come from races start from a green light, not a highway!
Does Hawaii actually plan on taking the car away or suspending the "street racers" license?

Originally posted by loco4rx8
This is ridiculous. My car belongs to me. If they want to take my license because of repeated offenses, that's one thing, but there's no way they should take my car. That's like them saying, "Hey, that's a nice ring you're wearing. Since you were speeding, we'll be taking that."

Well, actually it's the same thing -- most states will leavy a pretty hefty fine for going way over the limit. There's your ring. I think the intent of the seizure is to make the penalty proportionate amongst drivers. That is, make it hurt the same for everyone. Some young kid with a $1000 used car is still probably going to be really hurting if it's taken. On the other hand someone wealthier may see a $1000 fine as not much more than a nuisance. Chances are, though, that they are driving something much more expensive; a Porche, for example. Take that away and then they start to feel an equivalent level of "pain" as the kid. So it's an attempt, I think, to not end up with a law that only deters the less wealthy from speeding.

Not that I'm in favor of this proposed law. As mentioned, it's not speed per se that is the prime danger. It's people who can't tell the difference between conditions where it's safe to go fast and conditions where they should slow the hell down. And people who mistake darting in and out of traffic and tailgating for reduced travel time. If I were a highway patrolman and had my way I wouldn't spend time hiding in the bushes staring at a radar gun. I'd be cruising in an unmarked car pulling over the bozos who drive dangerously at any speed. "Tailgate this, pal!" ;)

I think the reason they call it a "law" is because it's a "law." If this ever passes, you have nobody to blame but yourself if they take your car away.

If the law says you lose your car if you're caught speeding more than 30 MPH above the stated speed limit...tough beans. You don't like it you can go live somewhere else.

If this makes 250,000 people move out of state so be it.

ID 10 T definitely equals i3man

I am so sick and tired of being taking ONE bad example and creating a new law or way of doing something! These ID 10 T's take statistics and skew them into sounding horrible.

i3man must be VERY streotypicical because one 18 year old kid messed up and now ALL of them shouldnt drive and ALL people driving should do so under the speed limit.

BAD things happen. NO MATTER WHAT... They just do. Whether your driving, flying, running, having sex or eating pop corn. They could ALL be dangerous. it doesnt mean to stop doing them!

Just think back to the 20's to 40's... HELL, they didnt even HAVE seatbelts yet! People drove fast and they died!

I think it should be the other way around... if ID 10 T's DONT want to get hurt driving, THEY shouldnt drive! If they do drive, it shoudl be an accepted risk.

What we need is a bird flu to become transmittable in humans (preferbly only 1D 10 T's) and take out 25% of the population so people will realize were REALLY only human and we die for crappy reasons sometimes.

Can you really take someone’s car away? I'd imagine they could impound it, or even prevent you from driving it again, but to then claim the car as their property due to your speeding? I'd get a good lawyer.

Another twist to this story (im not sure if it is already mentioned) - is that Hawaii's only legal racing venue, which was used for Autocrossing, Drag Racing, and Track Days... has shut down.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Apr/03/ln/FP604030349.html

If people can't race legally... a lot more of it is going to be taken to the streets. You can say its bad... and i agree... but it is still gonna happen.

-hS

Hahaha - Their interstates have an absurdly low limit, 30 miles over nets them a car AND they closed their only racing venue?! Hawaii must be damn desperate for new police cruisers.

its like the new california

2 year old revive... HELL YEAH. Gotta love those. I totally don't expect "bubble" here to respond if he still hangs around the forum, but explain this one to me.


The average Joe & Jane are the bad drivers; they're the ones that cause accidents. The people who drive 2-3 car lengths from the car in front of them are causing accidents.


I'm a decent driver and I generally stay far behind cars because I don't trust peoples rash moves. I just don't ask for trouble anymore, I've grown out of that.

I think he means that the average joe on the road is a rather complacent, crappy driver. Crappy drivers often tailgate - 2 to 3 car lengths on the interstate really isn't that much room. I don't disagree with him either, from personal experience, people take my "words of wisdom" about being a smarter or safer driver and chalk it up to being overly cautious or just nagging.

I'm very rarely in the situation where I almost hit someone else, but I've often been forced to watch out for the dolt behind me or next to me. If I didn't leave that extra space to compensate for their tailgating, they'd be buried into my back seats all because they think that being 6" from the car in front of you actually gets you somewhere. Hell, I slow down for those folks.

Speaking of following too closely...

The other day I was traveling a little more than two seconds behind the car in front of me at around 70 mph. I saw something happening in front of me but couldnt tell... the truck in front of me was the large Dodge Hemi truck. He ended hitting his breaks at the last second. :SHOCKED: I started hitting the breaks and glanced in the left mirror and saw a car and knew that going around to the left wasnt an option. Breaking hard, my math said that wasnt going to work either... so I got luck and went right. No cars, guard rails, or posts... just good North Carolina Country roads with wet grass.

The RX8 did a GREAT job letting me correct it so we didnt let the rear end kick out.

I ended up stopping half way thru the truck who had stopped in a car in front of it.

Wasnt pretty... but had I been following closer, I woudl of been done and that was with a TON of room.

I don't think that speeding is the main cause of accidents. It's usually due to people driving stupidly or just not paying attention. Almost every accident I've almost been involved in was usually due to the shitty driver in front of me or beside me.

Usually these are older people (60+). I can't count how many times I've almost been side swiped by an old person not looking before switching lanes. The last time it happened was like two days ago. What really pisses me off is when I get behind one that's going like 35 in a 55. It's really hard to pass them sometimes due to the road being too curvy.

I imagine this causes a lot of accidents because of other drivers getting impatient and passing in a no-passing zone. I think drivers tests should be manditory every 5 years for people over 60 years of age.

As for the street racing and losing your license for going 30+ over the posted limit:

I think that street racing should carry a very harsh punishment. If people don't have enough sense to keep it on the track, they should lose their car. Many people die due to the stupidity of street racers.

I don't think that losing your license for going 30+ over the posted limit is a big deal. If the speed limit is 50mph you shouldn't exceed 10-15mph over that. There is a reason for the law. They wouldn't have passed the law if there wasn't something that warranted it.

Thanks for showing everyone that you have the IQ of a 2-year old. I think someone needs a timeout here.

3 years ago a family was going to church at 5AM when a 18-year old kid hit their van traveling at 50 MPH when he lost control of his car street racing at 100 MPH. The kid lived and escaped with minor injuries. The mother in the van died. This is the exact accident that his prompting the proposed legislation.


Then maybe they should pass a law against 100mph street racing or pass a law that makes parents responsible for their kids actions when they hand them the keys to a sports car.

Not that passing laws is ever going to keep people safe 100% of the time. No matter what laws you pass there will always be stupid people out there making fatal mistakes. This "punish them all" attitude that lawmakers seem to be getting these days is making me sick. Now I know I'll never move to Hawaii if offered a job there. All this is is yet another money making scheme by politicians.

They wouldn't have passed the law if there wasn't something that warranted it.I think your putting way too much trust in politicians. "warranted it" could mean different things to different people.

If there was one accident with a car going 85... do you think that warrants this law? If there were 500.. then?

IMO it really depends. I dont think going 80 is too fast on the highway. Hell... over here the speed limit is 70. Then again, i've never driven on that highway in HI... so i'm not sure.

-hS

Bah, pay attention to which posts you quote - some of those are more than 2 years old.

In addition to being two-years-old news from Hawaii, this is not too different from the 15-year-old news from California where they passed laws allowing them to take the car driven by a drunk driver (whether it was the driver's car or not).

It all amounts to the same principle - follow the rules and you won't have any problem. I've accidentally exceeded speed limits by 5 to 15mph, but 30mph goes beyond careless to negligence. Likewise with driving drunk. If you choose to speed (or be careless about your speed) or choose to drive drunk there are consequences and they're not a surprise.

"Doc, it hurts when I do this...."
"Don't do that."

Well, make a law that will take the car away from the STREET RACERS. Speeding does NOT kill people. Stupid drivers kill people. IQ of a 2 year old? HMMM well I guess I should go just turn in my engineering degree?!?! OK think logically here.... You make a law so that people who drive safe but speed will get their cars taken away? Wrong kind of law to pass. Don't telll me speed kills. Try driving the Autobahn sometime and you will see that there are hardly ANY accidents. It not the speed you should be going after, it is the RECKLESS DRIVERS. Got that IQ Man?


then everyone becomes a street racer... a street racing epidemic breaks out...

Dude did I say this was going to happen in Germany or CA or any other state? How about putting the college degree to work and answering people around here with a little respect.


Last time I checked Hawaii was a State. Now New Mexico...that's a different story. :mdrmed: